Richard Shelby Contradicts the CIA and Everyone Else
Last we checked, the only member of Congress briefed on torture in September 2002 who agreed with the CIA’s representation of that meeting was Richard Shelby. After Greg Sargent asked him point blank whether they were told about waterboarding, Shelby said,
To Senator Shelby’s recollection of the Senate briefing, waterboarding was one the EITs the CIA said it had used. As he also recalls, the CIA described the valuable intelligence it obtained using EITs, including waterboarding.
Now, as I pointed out yesterday, an anonymous source who is almost certainly the Shelby staffer in that meeting, Bill Duhnke, seems to remember the meeting similarly to Bob Graham. So Shelby’s story was already getting a little wobbly, even ignoring the credibility afforded Graham’s story by his extensive notes.
Well, Shelby’s wobbly story just got shot to hell by his own big mouth. This morning, he described a meeting attended by all four Gang of Four members, rather than two and two as the CIA shows. (h/t Bob Fertik)
KING: Vice President Cheney wants other memos released. Should we just have full disclosure on all fronts here, transparency, let the American people decide?
SHELBY: Well, that’s a tough road to go down. What we are basically doing is weakening our intelligence agencies and we will pay dearly for that. I was in that meeting, Senator Graham, Congressman Goss, Congresswoman Pelosi at that time, four of us were in the meeting.
And I came away from there believing that the enhanced interrogation techniques were working, they were getting good information. This was in ’02. I thought we had a pretty good description of what was happening by the CIA.
But, you know, they are the ones that were there. It has been seven years. But I believe that we ought to err on the side of national security, I thought then and I know it now. [my emphasis]
Uh, if four of you were in the meeting, then the CIA’s records are wrong, which means we shouldn’t trust their version of that briefing. And if not–as seems to be the case–then Shelby’s wrong even about the basic circumstances of the briefing. Shelby’s follow-on, "they are the ones that were there. It has been seven years" seems like a giant hedge. Or maybe a confession on Shelby’s part that even when he’s "there," he’s not all there.
Mind you, I never believed Shelby’s story had much credibility in the first place. But I’m glad to see he agrees with me.
Good one, Marcy. Don’t ever let up.
Marcy,
I have not seen you blog on this (I could have missed it, but Harry Shearer covered it this morning). Abu Gonzales, as WHC, signed off on daily torture requests from
Mormon MissionariesJepson and Mitchell. This is reportedly the first time the White House signed off on torture. We know Jepson and Mitchell are the ones who designed the torture programs, and then they are the ones who implemented the torture.Here is the link:
http://www.npr.org/templates/s…..=104350361
Blogged it here.
I didn’t think it would get past you. It is funny (not) that the Bush WH would use the president’s private attorney to sign off on one of the biggest crimes of the past century.
Not funny, but predictable; is exactly why they had a dupe like Gonzales in the positions they did.
“Aldupo,” or perhaps “El Dupo?”
think it translates to “culo”, en Espanol, or perhaps, “pindeho”. Although Dupa is just “ass” colloquially from the Polish?, someone please correct me?
Remember, after March 10, 2004, when DOJ wouldn’t sign off on the illegal wiretap program, Gonzales signed off on that too.
There’s a pattern of this stuff.
Also, it would be nice if one of these dweeb interviewers would have the courtesy and common sense to hit Shelby upside the head with his National Security violations when he blathers about “erring on the side of national security”.
You know, Shelby’s never been the most articulate of good ol’ boys. But didn’t he used to seem a bit sharper?
Shelby’s been getting vaguer and vaguer, not just on recalling CIA briefings. His performances re the banking crises — from September onward — have been head-scratching, to put it charitably. He’s unhappy with every incarnation of TARP — a position shared by many — but his grounds for dissent are hard to parse. And then after meandering through a few incoherent complaints, he says we have to do something totally different. But can never explain what he thinks ought to be done.
I don’t know how Dodd manages him in trying to move things through Banking — probably mostly ignores him except at well-chosen, carefully coreographed moments.
In any event, as today’s performance demonstrated, he’s not likely to have the crispness of presentation to be able to lead an effective GOP charge against the other Gang members.
I keep thinking back to the allegations that Shelby owns–though a shell company–Doss Aviation, doing business with the Feds.
That would make him ripe to be owned by a number of dark types, both for the shell, for the contracting he’s getting, and–since it’s an aviation company–who knows what else.
It’s the kind of thing that might burn the good ol boy energy out of you, being owned that completely.
Indeed: Shelby of Alabama rattles all kinds of skeletons: Siegelman, Rove’s casino gambling links to Abramoff in Mississippi and Alabama, Judge Fuller… all that denial and evasion would probably be a fairly heavy cognitive debit if you had to carry it around 24/7/365.
Pity.
This one is the story we await to see. There are pawprints that can’t be explained about that company’s activities, and no answers forthcoming, correct? Is anyone keeping track of that one?
I seem to recall from some Hopsicker stories that Doss Aviation is big in drug importing. Notice how quiet it is on the enforcement front after a couple of quick flashes in the Mexican press showing multi-million $$ busts.
This is the first I knew of Shelby’s ownership stake in Doss – it totally explains his active role in any necessary coverup. What blinkers me is how close all this crime is/has been to being open feature news and yet nobody talks about it. Even Hopsicker, whose bestest subject is aviation/smuggling/cia, has been dead silent on it for months. Others have unfortunate accidents. Press says nothing.
– After being thoroughly irritated by this post, I suddenly had a strangely cheering thought:
I’d love to see Col (?) Janice Karpinski explain to Shelby in careful, simple words why his reckless comments are disrespectful to the US military — whose safety was endangered by torture policies. Maybe she could help him understand the implications of his reckless, lazy comments on the lives of others.
(FWIW, I’d put 1/4 cup of butter on my popcorn w/ extra salt to watch Shelby get schooled by a military commander on why his comments about torture briefings need to be far more accurate and verifiable.)
Duh! The Fuller-Seligman connection had slipped my mind. I was just reading Horton’s newest blast on Fuller. Jeez is Alabama an incestuous cesspool!
What’s been bizarre, watching this from a distance, is the intensity and the appearance of vindictiveness. It’s strange, but it almost makes one wonder: ‘why Siegelman?’ What about the guy do they hate this much? What scares them this much, so much that they are really endangering their own reputations in order to put him away… ‘forever’.
It seems very, very strange. And this from the Horton piece you link to:
Kinda makes me wonder what aspects of “Doss Aviation” Judge Fuller and Sen Richard Shelby don’t want anyone peering around to inspect, doesn’t it?
And K-k-k-k-Karl Rove’s is pals (and former biz partner?) of the Bush DoJ prosecutor L. Canary (and Alice Miller), and it starts feeling like Dostoyevsky knew more about Alabama than most of us know today.
Wasn’t Alabama where G.W. Bush had some records vanish…? Or went AWOL…? Or his dad cleaned up some [alleged cocaine] charges or something…? You’d think whoever took care of erasing any records about G.W. Bush’s antics Back in the Day wouldn’t have anything to fear from Siegelman, but clearly some dark forces have it in for him.
Forget about following the money for a few weeks; follow the fear…
How long would it take us to find Shelby via that pathway, one wonders…?
Like EW, I figure someone(s) have Shelby in their thrall.
only for the last 200 years or so
it was just a cesspool before the Alabamans got there
(cue the banjo wink)
Marcy, this is not the first instance in which it was claimed that there was a meeting in September 2002 at which all of the Gang of Four were briefed by the CIA. I give you the lede from the December 2007 Washington Post story on the CIA briefing of Congress
I’ve taken the fact that no one had claimed or even hinted, prior to this Shelby quote, that the CIA briefing time line was wrong about there being no briefing at which more than two members of Congress were present at any given time in 2002 and detailed memory of the source(”The briefer was specifically asked if the methods were tough enough,” said a U.S. official who witnessed the exchange.),as evidence that the WaPo story was a hit piece on Democrats, in general, and Pelosi in particular.
This may still be true. In fact, Shelby’s assertion of a meeting at which all members of the Gang of Four were present may indicate that he was a source for the Post the story. After all, Shelby has been known to leak.
Possibly. But I think it much much more likely, given the intended spin, of that article to be Jose Rodriguez or someone close to him. (Which might mean that Shelby talked JR before this morning).
There’s a very very very sloppy habit even among the best journalists to just assume that briefing means Gang of Eight or at least Four. So that might have been a factor, too.
Yes. Sure. I dunno. Dr. Pepper is 10 – 2 or 4.
Chicago Transit Authority sings of 25 or 6 to 4.
But Full Committee to Gang of 8 to Gang of 4 to whichever corrupt pricks in Congress we choose to deceive…. Well, that is a different matter.
“I approved of torture, because it was working…unless, of course, this matter comes before the Hague, in which case, I wasn’t even there, and had no knowledge.”
Well since he admits knowing the Bushies were breaking international law doesn’t that make him guilty of a cover-up? Then shouldn’t he be impeached?
He can’t have it both ways.
Watching General Powell on Face the Nation today, I wondered whether his recollections of events comports with that of the others? He seems to comfirm the gist of the timeline of what I have read here, if I heard him correctly.
Call me naive, but you could tell me anything about Richard Shelby and I’d believe it. His fellow citizens in Alabama, Republicans and Democrats alike, have always regarded him with a special blend of contempt and amazement. I’ve never heard anyone say a good word about the man, and I’ve lived here since before he was a senator. (This is not to say that folks refuse to do business with him. It’s just that they won’t admit to it. And, by Alabama standards, he looks and acts like a conventionally boring banker, but strictly so. He’s always up to something or other.)
And thanks to you all for the very kind birthday salutes….
are you willing to wager on that ???
$10 says you wont believe this:
send my $10 here
I’m pretty sure this site does not condone gambling, so let’s not tell the IRS what this particular donation was about, okay ???
(wink)