Gallup Polls Public Approval on Innocent Bystanders, But Not Torturers
You guys are all really smart people. So here’s a quiz. What’s wrong with this picture?
I know. Too easy: Gallup apparently decided to poll who was winning the battle of torture public opinion.
And forgot to poll public approval on the actual torturers!
I don’t have the crosstabs or actual questions, but by all appearances, Gallup asked,
Do you approve or disapprove of how each of the following has handled the matter of interrogation techniques used against terrorism suspects?
- Barack Obama
- The CIA
- Democrats in Congress
- Republicans in Congress
- Nancy Pelosi
I’m sorry to be crude, but was it Crazy Pete Hoekstra or Dick Cheney himself who sucked your dick, Gallup, to persuade you to do this poll? Because there’s really no other legitimate excuse for this poll. You didn’t poll on approval on the "handling of interrogation techniques used against terrorism suspects" for:
- Dick Cheney, the architect and main apologist of the torture program
- James Mitchell and Bruce Jessen, the contractors who had no experience in interrogation, but nevertheless made big money off of torturing prisoners
- John Yoo, Jay Bybee, and Steven Bradbury, who wrote crazy legal opinions to pre-authorize torture
- The torturer who said he used more water than legally permitted because that made the whole process "more poignant and convincing"
- Alberto Gonzales, who was giving daily, meticulous approvals for torture even before it had been declared "legal"
Instead, Gallup polled on a bunch of people who weren’t involved in the actual torture. Hell, even the CIA’s significantly off the hook, given that contractors did the torture, and people like George Tenet and Jose Rodriguez who oversaw it are retired.
What’s your opinion of the handling of the members of Congress who were illegally not briefed before the torture started? What’s your opinion of those chump Democrats who tried to make the Army Field Manual (for all its faults) the standard for interrogation? What’s your opinion of a bunch of dead-ender Republicans who are clinging to some political scandal to stay relevant?
But not, "What’s your opinion of Dick Cheney, who tried to get an Iraqi tortured so he could claim there were ties between Iraq and al Qaeda that had long since been discredited?"
Go get em, EW!
If they’re going to publish a poll this crudely biased, you’re entitled to call them out in crude terms. “first, you must get their attention”. Since “one upside the head” is, literally, off-limits, a reference to knob-polishing seems pretty appropriate.
Funny Wheelie Diva
That is one sorry ass poll. There is no point to it. They wasted some money for a big lot of dog mess.
Oh, there was a ‘point’ to it, AZ Matt.
The intent was to reduce a profoundly serious moral issue to a simple high schoolish popularity contest among cartoon characterizations.
A perfect example of what Hugh reefers to as “The Age of Stupid” …
That ‘this’ was passed off as anything of serious value, suggests it is time for a certain polling ’service’ to gallop off the public stage into the dustbin of absurdity and thence into a well-deserved obscurity.
DW
refers not “reefers” …
PS, I hope this one hits the front page at the Mothership.
FWDiva
First they should hand the people they poll the torture memos and encourage them to read them before they are polled.
Do you think it is acceptable to have interrogators smear feces from one prisoner on the face of another.
Have them read Jeremy Scahill’s statements “Guards will call in this goon squad. They come in with their Darth Vader outfits, and they literally gang-beat prisoners. There are five men, generally, that are sent in. Each of them is assigned to one body part of the prisoner: the head, the left arm, the right arm, the left leg, the right leg. They go in, and they hogtie the prisoner, sometimes leaving them hogtied for hours on end. They douse them with chemical agents. They have put their heads in toilets and flushed the toilets repeatedly. They have urinated on the heads of prisoners. They’ve squeezed their testicles in the course of restraining them. They’ve taken the feces from one prisoner and smeared it in the face of another prisoner.”
Torture…the word is being used like 9/11 was used….repeatedly. If they really want to find out what people think …get specific
Most of these folks have their pedals to the metal and are on their way to eat a double whopper with fries and a vanilla malted.
Most of these folks are not spending their time reading what type of torture took place, how innocent people died, disappeared, had petro run up their asses etc. Most folks do not have a clue, because the details of what was done has been kept in the dark.
Looks like Obama is going to try to keep it that way too.
I am of the opinion that EVERY American citizen should, as their scared duty and responsibility as a citizen, look at the PICTURES, and then, if they’ve the stomach, they might wish to do some further reading.
The pictures, alone, would make a damning impression, and not much more would be required, one imagines, to get the public’s attention (and disgust) well-focused.
And Obama, bless his heart, knows this, full well.
What do you think, Leen, should the citizenry be required to ‘look’ at what has been done in their name?
Dare they not look, and still lay claim to being a “Christian Nation” and, therefore, among other myths, ‘exceptional’ and ‘different’ from all other people?
Every morning Americans should have to look at pictures of what their government has done and it should be on the news. The military and the U.S. government sure learned that one from Vietnam. Do not show the pictures..do not show the pictures.
Losing whatever soul we had left.
Push poll. Set the argument by asking a supposed neutral question claiming a false claim as if it’s fact. I’d guess money or something passed hands.
Or the Gallup people are so stupid and/or uninformed that they believe the media story this week and base their poll on it. Be nice if Gallup was put onto a ‘do not use’ list for all Democrats. Starve ‘em.
But it’s humbling to note what a huge segment of the population does not hear or ‘get’ the level of torture conducted in their names.
I need to vent my anger. There was more to get outraged over in Cheney’s speech than I can list here. But what ticked me off the most (even though it wasn’t the most egregious) were his remarks about Abu Ghraib.
What a lying, cowardly piece of shit he is. I have no doubt that he and his pal Rummy were behind this. Then they both hid behind the stupid asses who followed their orders. Cowardly and dishonorable. They sent people to jail to cover up for their crimes. You don’t get lower than that.
And, what the fuck’s wrong with Obama? Indefinite incarceration with no access to the judicial system? Have we restored Habeus Corpus yet cause that’s a scary statement?
Yes, strangely Dick Cheney seems to have overlooked someone at Abu Ghraib: Mark Swanner, the CIA interrogator who tortured Manadel al-Janabi to death.
A bit inconvenient for the “few bad apples” narrative. Particularly when considered alongside the thirty-plus deaths in U.S. detention that were ruled homicides by the military itself (out of more than a hundred recorded deaths in detention overall in Iraq and Afghanistan).
Ms E Wheel: Little correction: “You guys are all RELATIVELY really smart people.”
[slap hands] Fixed!
Plame, WMDs, Iran, A.Q. Khan. And Dick “Dick” “caused significant damage to U.S. national security and its ability to counter nuclear proliferation abroad. . . .”
Outed CIA officer was working on Iran, intelligence sources say
Larisa Alexandrovna Published: February 13, 2006
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2….._0213.html
Who paid for that poll? It’s ridiculous!
It’s been a day of co-ordinated news items by the Cheney Camp – including this piece of shit, bought and paid for, poll from Gallup.
However, it looks like Cheney’s effort is not rallying anybody or changing any minds, either – it’s the same old 911 Fearmongering, dressed-up with newly-twisted words, and it’s just not playing well in Peoria anymore.
With the pending release of both the OPR Report and the CIA IG Report, Cheney’s stock is only going to Plummet Even Worse in the weeks ahead – until, hopefully, he’s brought to Justice for his Crimes.
So, I see today as likely to go down as Dick’s lame last stand – a defiant, deluded, weak last stand – by a Penis-with-Feet – who says he Waterboarded as Policy, and that his ‘house lawyers’ said it was Legal.
Hope you get a chance to catch Lawrence Wilkerson on KO. Esp. around minute 4:36 and on.
Catching up on the news reports, it sure looks like Cheney’s in a corner.
And Wilkerson is linking economic+financial upheaval with Cheney as positioning himself to reap any upcoming upheaval. Sinister.
The graphic has 5 items:
Obama, Intell, Democratic Party, Republican Party, Speaker of House.
The question is about torture, but calls it “technique”.
The question is framed in negatives, however, what the survey seeks to elicit is the public’s attitude toward halting torture.
The winner in the survey is the one with the tallest graph bar for the negative response: Speaker of the House, Pelosi.
Gallup is famous for couching questions in Republican leadership strategic phrases; this solicitation is worded with doubly negative concepts, so the outcome on the graph visually looks like the winner actually lost.
For the current poll about people and agencies who best curtailed torture to have listed a range of possible responses which included policymakers who designed the torture paradigm would have gotten Gallup in heaps of trouble with those officials who promoted that departure from treaty obligations and US historical military and civilian tradition for treatment of nonbattlefield captives.
Greg Miller and Scott Horton wrote articles respectively in 2006 concerning one person who apparently accidentally signed onto a training program in torture in Iraq September 2003. Kayla Williams book about armed service figures in the Miller account, as Williams’ book mentions the torture trainee’s collapse of morale while she was learning to torture. But the Miller and Horton complaints would be too specific to design into questionnaires, and would be out of character for the Gallup organization.
If he makes it. The still is at McClatchy, on the home page for now, taken during Thursday’s speech.
“Is there something wrong with his eyes?” One pupil is much bigger than the other.. Or, do I need glasses???
Wow. That is one stupid poll. I wish I could say I was shocked.
In the meantime, Cheney’s approval rating has gone up 8 points to 37%, according to CNN.
me thinks the answer lies not in the questions, but in the poll itself
if dick was winning the PR battle, would this poll be needed ???
necessity, the maternal explanation for invention
got any more questions, the crystal bong awaits your queries
an about yer question, I ain’t so sure everybody would agree with this”
a few of my ex-girl friends dispute the fact that I am human
You didn’t poll on approval on the “handling of interrogation techniques used against terrorism suspects” for:
Dick Cheney, the architect and main apologist of the torture program
James Mitchell and Bruce Jessen, the contractors who had no experience in interrogation, but nevertheless made big money off of torturing prisoners
John Yoo, Jay Bybee, and Steven Bradbury, who wrote crazy legal opinions to pre-authorize torture
The torturer who said he used more water than legally permitted because that made the whole process “more poignant and convincing”
Alberto Gonzales, who was giving daily, meticulous approvals for torture even before it had been declared “legal”
====================
Maybe because we’ve never heard of most of those people, or not much, or not lately…. And why is that?
James Mitchell and Bruce Jessen are the only two obscure names on that list
and I get the feeling that they ain’t gonna enjoy their anonymity much longer
well, I ain’t heard of “the torturer who said …” either
but I assume the guy wears one of those black executioner hoods, so he shouldn’t be that hard to spot
James Ko Ko Mitchell was featured prominently in the NPR ‘WH Counsel Abu personally ordered torture ’story released yesterday
welcome to the thunderdome Jim
Freep, Here’s how to get to the NPR story that mentioned Mitchell. There are links below the story for more on torture, too.
http://www.npr.org/templates/s…..=104350361
Cheney, I believe, was never much interested in terror, terrorists, terrorism, islam, Saddam Hussein, Al-Qaida, the Taliban, Osama Bin Ladin, or the destruction of the Twin Towers. He has never had a soldier’s interest, or commitment, to the waging and winning of the war. He had something else that consumed him.
He was determined to have his way with the judicial system, the legislature, and bureaucrats answering to the President. He was determined to strike back at the frustrations, humiliations, and lèse-majesté of his preceding thirty years. Much of his trouble has always stemmed from his mediocrity–his lack of talent at bureaucratic maneuver and persuasion (he would say that it isn’t worth the trouble, that he’s the boss and he can do what he wants), but this doesn’t alter the fact that he’s the sort of executive that destroys everything around him. We know the type all too well. His will stupidly seduce his most valuable ally into destroy himself, then blame the system for fighting back.
I’d say that the work to be done on Cheney is essentially done with–the intellectual work of figuring out how he ticks, and what he cares about. And if we want to make progress in the process of healing, we really ought to devote our attentions elsewhere–to someone almost impossible to study, namely George V. Bush himself. His addiction to torture–not different from an addiction to internet porn, since it’s all conveyed by
We–or I–keep losing sight of the essential thing: Bush is the party responsible for his terms in office. The fact that he ignored most of his responsibilities is not necessarily the point of greatest interest. We know what he didn’t do; we know what he didn’t want to do, but we tend to ignore the “positivities” of his agenda. They
hinge, in my view, on a single, obvious drive to show his standing (by killing people, torturing people, No fun.)
Did y’all see Rachel Maddow tonight? Man, was she on a tear about Obama’s “two speeches”– the one we all love, right beside another one we all hate, about preventative detention. She even worked in “Minority Report.”
There is no friggin’ need for preventative detention!!! Its an abomination, as Rachel made clear. The only saving grace of the dam thing was that he said a preventative detention policy would need to have adequate oversight by Congress and the Courts. Well, that PD sounds directly at odds with Habeas Corpus, to me. I think the whole concept needs to be shredded and atomized.
Both Rachel and Keith were on a mission tonight. Didja see Olbermann’s “Special Comment”? Hey Keith, tell us what you really think.
Cheney’s on a mission, too. I think he’s gonna pull a Bill Casey: Daring everyone right and left (but mostly left) to stop his single-minded assault on the Constitution, Congress, and the Courts. He’ll keep on doing what he is doing until his sorry ass finally gets hauled into court, and then he’ll die before he can be sworn in, just like Bill Casey did, so he will escape conviction of numerous war crimes. By so doing, he will escape the judgment of the court that what he did was friggin’ ILLEGAL. From the grave, his last “So?”
Bob in HI
Wilkerson’s hit on Rachael’s show last night was spot on. He came right out and said that Cheney is positioning himself for the big “I TOLD YOU SO!” not if but WHEN the next attack occurs on “The Fatherland.” And how is it that Cheney can be so confident that he will be proven correct? Because he has foreknowledge of the next attack, just as he did of the original one. By every single definition, Cheney is in fact a terrorist.
If anyone has the entire interview, it was excellent.
I’m not willing to entertain notions of Cheney’s “foreknowledge” of 9-11 or an upcoming attack, anymore than I am prepared to endorse the concept of “preventive detention”. The whole point of the 1% Doctrine is that it can be used to justify any political action on a hypothetical security threat without evidence – as Cheney put it, according to Suskind, it’s about the response, not the analysis. It is not necessary to get into 9-11 theories to totally discredit Cheney.
These polls have been co-opted for a long time.
Imagine the results from the simple question: “Was 9/11 an inside job?” That question will NEVER be seen in a public opinion poll. Why?
Follow the money. The public doesn’t pay them – the media, banksters, thieves, Shadow Government Operatives, DOD, Fed and political parties pay them. For all we know, they are paid hush money for the questions they threaten to poll on, but then spike or alter to suit the Fascist Agenda.
The Rasmussen poll is bought and paid for by the Republican Party. No poll conducted by Rasmussen will ever reflect reality.
Former Pollster Pleads Guilty to Fabricating Results
Fully 90% of Americans believe the government is hiding the truth about 9/11. Why is that not the biggest headline in America, every single day? Because the mainstream media doesn’t work for you and me, and those who call themselves “journalists,” aren’t. Nor are they patriots.
As soldiers put their lives on the line daily to preserve what little is left of our freedoms, can you spot any mainstream media “journalists” willing to use their megaphone (at the risk of losing their jobs) to tell the entire truth? It’s not that they don’t know the truth – they clearly do. It’s that they value payola and “celebrity” more than Freedom itself.
There’s a connection between the poll and your previous post Marcy. Youv’e just spotted the first mainstream media report which is accurate. The mass of people don’t read your outpourings, so think Pelosi’s fibbing. So of course they disapprove. When the truth seeps out, and it will as some of those who have been careful so far see they can safely be brave, it will change.
And of course it’s going to be important to get “interrogation techniques” changed to “torture”.
Just keep plodding along.
The Cheney PR machine is out in full force this morning – so far on CNN, I have seen Liz Cheney, Mary Matalin, and Fran Townshend all defending Dick within the past hour.
Hanging together or hanging separately, “if you will.” The co-conspirators are identifying themselves by their own actions. Their roots connect them. Mary Matlin knows EVERYTHING. You can bet your ass she’s going to speak in her own self-interest, not the America people’s. Look at the co-conspirators who were involved in the Scooter Libby Legal Defense Fund (particularly Mel Sembler) and there you will find the list of traitors to the American people. They were all true believers who thought they were operating in the best interest of the country (Israel/America), but they broke every law in the process.
As for 9/11, I can always count on someone suggesting that it not be mentioned, despite Cheney’s 20 or 30 mentions in one speech. If they are going to mention it all the damn time, so am I. It was in fact the pretext, and they did have foreknowledge of it. That is not a theory, it is a fact.
Perhaps 9-11 is not the most effective ground to challenge Cheney, if it is all he wants to talk about. What could be more effective (and damning!)than repeating that Cheney ordered torture to obtain false confessions to justify the war after the fact? “Cheney delenda est” , if you will.
While I appreciate your perspective, I’m afraid the media is serving Cheney’s interest by muddying the water about whether, when and how waterboarding is “justified.” He is using 9/11 (and the prospect of another one) to “justify” torture, and for a segment of the population, the “justification” is sticking. He’s doing it because the media is not only allowing him to, they are assisting him in this effort.
The ONLY thing that will stop these rat bastards in their tracks is for those who have evidence that 9/11 was in fact a “Dick Cheney Operation” to come forward with the actual evidence. Mossad has all of it – and is blackmailing the US with it. I’m not making this shit up. These are facts – known to thousands of insiders.
Only by revealing the entire truth of 9/11 to the American People can we get our country back. Nothing less will do (as evidenced by the twisted justifications for War Crimes). Under the laws of the United States, Cheney is both a terrorist, and an arsonist.
Marcy, you’ve been even more amazing than even your high standards in recent weeks, and I know you’ve got plenty on your plate. But Bobo wades in this morning, and it would be great to hear your reaction to his view. Here’s a taste…
“…fighting against legal judgments that allowed enhanced interrogation techniques”….
Typical Bobo wankery – elevating Yoo and Bybee’s spurious “opinions” purporting to give after the fact cover to torturers to “legal judgments”! And trying to rehabilitate Rice and Bellinger at the same time!
Agreed. I tend to look at these things from the perspective of how they fit and feed the overall dialogue and, ultimately, larger pubic opinion. (Not those of most folk around here who may be less susceptible to these breezes.)
Anyway, I’m still digesting Bobo’s contribution, but after my initial reading, I’m concerned that this may be an effective foray in throwing Bush-Cheney under the bus, yet continuing to position the holdover stuff — executive privilege, broadly interpreted national security excuses for secrecy, detainees still detained without due process, the rest of that long list — as moderate and acceptable.
Usually, Bobo’s wankery is more transparent, but this may be more subtle and, as a result, more effective.
Agreed on the subtlety – it struck me as Brooks’ way to further the meme that torture was a legitimate policy dispute between factions in the Bush administration, and not a war crime.
By not mentioning the major Supreme Court rulings against them, rulings which were brought about only because independent organizations were willing to fight for human rights and civil liberties, Brooks also makes it seem as if the changes during the Bush administration were the result of benevolence and wisdom (Rice, Bellinger, etc.)
From one of Johns links.
Is this important?
‘In implementation of this vocal command, which was entrusted to Dr Stephen Cambone and his deputy LTG William (”My God Can Beat Your God”) Boykin, MG Miller traveled to Iraq at the end of the summer, visiting with LTG Ricardo Sanchez in Baghdad and traveling out to Abu Ghraib itself to speak with senior military intelligence personnel.’
http://balkin.blogspot.com/200…..erson.html
EW if the visit with Whitehouse is going to be over at the mother ship (you are aware that I was expelled over there because of my argument with RBG on the I/P issue)
Anyway my question for Whitehouse and I know it is a general question but sincere. I know the lawyer folk and more learned will ask more specific questions)
Senator Whitehouse,
I have listened to you during numerous hearings and I have no doubts about your sincerity and commitment to the “rule of law” But after watching and listening to the type of concerns the Republicans had about the “rule of law” during the Clinton administration, I lost faith in this country and our leaders. After closely watching and listening to the run up to the invasion of Iraq based on a “pack of lies”, I have lost faith in our country and our leaders. After witnessing the death and destruction (via the internet) in Iraq which is obviously a direct consequence of our illegal and immoral invasion of a country that had not threatened us, I have lost faith in our country and our leaders. After hearing about the torture in Abu Gharib first from a dear friend who was in Iraq in 2003 with the Christian Peace Maker team who were interviewing family members of people in Abu Gharib and then eventually reading about the torture in our media I lost faith in my country and our leaders.
Do you think we will witness our Representatives hold those responsible for false WMD intelligence, Niger Documents, torture, breaking International treaties etc etc.
Senator Whitehouse I attended the nomination hearings of Attorney General Holder. I heard you, Leahy, Feinstein, Feingold, Holder repeatedly say “no one is above the law, no one is above the law” I have heard President Obama repeatedly say “no one is above the law” Just what do our leaders mean when they say this? Are these just words to spit out to pacify Americans ? Sure seems like it.
Why would President Obama stand in the way of accountability and the rule of law by actively opposing a truth commission, special prosecutor and prosecutions for the very serious crimes committed during the last seven years of the Bush administrations?
Where are the Republicans on these very serious issues? They seem to be either complicit or silent.
Did anyone watch c-span. I was shocked at the callers. I mean way too many saying incredibly impossible observations about “The Dick”.
“He was clearly the adult, and Obama the child”.
The only callers speaking on Obama’s behalf were unfortunately unable to articulate clearly their positions. It “felt” staged. Sometimes I feel that they have a group of paid callers who call in, much like the trollers. Pollers, trollers and fake call ins. They are calling out the brigade.
The good news is that: He’s scared.
I’d hate to be his heart.
These callers must be part of Dick’s 19% approval rating. All Cheney did was repeat his endless fearmongering. He said 9/11 25 x’s. He was repeating his defense arguments for the day that we hope and pray he has to testify under oath in front of all of us.
As Chris Matthews has said ” Cheney should take his 19% approval rating and go home”
Must have been a concerted effort by his base to call in
i’d hate to HAVE his heart.
no, wait; he has none. this is a moot discussion!
Cheney has pulled out his Jenga Tiles in a strange pattern, basically leaving his entire pile of Monolithic Bullshit standing on a long stilt made of single tiles – any of which could get wobbly on him:
OVP Fire
Syrian ‘Reactor’
Loose Nukes
Torture Tapes
Abu Ghraib
March 11, 2004
Torture
Plame
Iraq
Al-Libi
Gloves are Off
Domestic Spying
Anthrax
Shadow NSC
UE Coup
Addington
911
And the whole Unstable Mass stands, barely, on the premise that Extraordinary Circumstances ‘invalidate’ the Principled Rule of Law – and instead Green-Light Inhuman Barbarity in the Service of Bush and Cheney’s Ideological “Fixed Outcome” Neocon Agenda.
Every “Journalist” has a choice to make, and we await your decision. We know that you are actively concealing the truth (complicit).
Michael Rivero
you know, i quit paying much attention to gallup about a decade ago. their product exposes their sentiments; this just one more example.
OT; you know that place where the dick yesterday charged libel…
well, doncha just hope someone takes him up on that? doncha just hope someone — ooh ooh, even dick himself — files a libel suit against say, mcclatchy for its bold assertions today, and forces dick to admit that he never fact-checked (at least no reliable source) his claims, an admission necessary to beat the suit’s requirement of knowledge aforehand?
lovely morning daydream, eh?
Just imagine what they could be hiding!
DOD Pays Billions For Unnamed Contractors
May 22, 2009
By Michael Fabey
“The Pentagon spent more than $2.7 billion on “miscellaneous items” in 2008 for which the contractor was listed as “not available” — a rare omission for Defense Department documentation — according to an Aerospace DAILY analysis of an independent national database of government contracting data.
. . .
“This marks the first time that “miscellaneous items” has cracked the list of top 20 Pentagon expenses this decade.
“Not only did the “not available” contractors account for 38 percent of the total amount of money the Pentagon designated for miscellaneous-item expenses, but the unnamed companies also accounted for 85 percent of the 7,590 category transactions.
. . .
“Analysts also point out that some of the work described could be considered to be under the purview of military intelligence, for which the Pentagon spent about $4.9 billion in 2008 from supplemental funding.”
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw…..ontractors
follow the money
I would like to witness Feinstein’s conflict of interest issue investigated. How much did her family profit off of the illegal and immoral war in Iraq
http://www.metroactive.com/met…..-0712.html
Is Senator Whitehouse visiting today?
He’s here right now !
Thank you EW Thank you
Try it; you’ll like it.
http://synd.imgsrv.uclick.com/…..090522.gif
yet another Marcy thread from Thursday evening inspiring posts all night long … into the wee hours … resuming again bright & early on Friday morning. FDL: our 24/7 organic news machine!
Senator Whitehouse …giving us hope!
I guess they were afraid they’d get results like the NBC/WSJ journal got on their last poll from April, 2009.