Why Is Pat Roberts So Quiet?
Virtually every report treating the CIA list of torture briefings seems either blissfully ignorant of or totally unconcerned with two significant conflicts between that list and the SSCI Narrative released earlier last month. The conflicts are:
- CIA says Jello Jay attended the February 4, 2003 briefing on torture; SSCI says he did not (though note CIA’s asterisked comment admitting "later individual briefing to Rockefeller" and Rockefeller’s recent statement about being briefed, which suggests they may be reaching consensus that he had a later, "incomplete" briefing).
- CIA does not say it briefed the Senate on "legal/policy issues" nor that "CIA [was] currently seeking reaffirmation from DOJ on use of EITs as well as renewed policy approval from NSC principals to continue using EITs" on July 15, 2004–it says it did brief the House intell leaders on this; SSCI says CIA did say it "was seeking OLC’s legal analysis on whether the program was consistent with the substantive provisions of Article 16 of the Convention Against Torture."
The conflicts are important because, if the SSCI narrative is correct, it would show key conclusions reporters are making about the briefings are false, it would clearly undermine the validity of the rest of the CIA briefing list, and it would show that CIA’s version left out key aspects of Congressional oversight (or lack thereof). If the CIA version is correct, it would mean CIA avoided at least one discussion about legal issues that pertained directly to the Senate’s role in approving treaties.
The conflict, however, is not just a he-said-he-said conflict between Bush’s CIA leadership and one key Democrat. The CIA and the SSCI agree that Pat Roberts attended both of these briefings (though not the individual briefing Jello Jay had). Now, Pat Roberts was not on SSCI when it developed its narrative, so he may or may not have had input into the narrative. But it has been public for weeks, and Pat Roberts remains mum about its accuracy (or not; also, he has not yet weighed in on the CIA version, either).
But we do know there has been an extended process between CIA and SSCI on these issues.
As Jello Jay explains, discussions about the SSCI narrative started last August–and the CIA, as well as key members of the Bush Administration–got input.
In August 2008, I asked Attorney General Michael B. Mukasey to join the effort to create such an unclassified narrative. The Attorney General committed himself to the endeavor, saying that if we failed it would not be for want of effort. Over the next months, Committee counsel and representatives of the Department of Justice, CIA, Office of the Director of National Intelligence, and the office of the Counsel to the President discussed potential text. The shared objective was to produce a text that, putting aside debate about the merits of the OLC opinions, describes key elements of the opinions and sets forth facts that provide a useful context for those opinions, within the boundaries of what the Department of Justice (DOJ) and the Intelligence Community would recommend in 2008 for declassification.
The understanding of the participants was that while the final product would be a Legislative Branch document, the collaborative nature of this process would provide the Executive Branch participants with the opportunity to ensure its accuracy. Before the end of the year, this process produced a narrative whose declassification DOJ, the DNI and the CIA supported.
So, at least according to Jello Jay, "Executive Branch participants," presumably including the CIA, had "the opportunity to ensure its accuracy." And CIA supported the declassification of the narrative.
Particularly given that the SSCI narrative references the CIA’s own records, it is highly likely that CIA and SSCI identified discrepancies sometime in the last eight months. Yet the CIA at least had its say on the content of the SSCI narrative and assented to its publication.
Which brings us to the Leon Panetta cover letter on the CIA briefing list which included the caveat that,
This information, however, is drawn from the past files of the CIA and represents MFRs completed at the time and notes that summarized the best recollections of those individuals. In the end, you and the Committee will have to determine whether this information is an accurate summary of what actually happened.
The letter shows that, before Panetta included that significant caveat, there was some back and forth leading up to this list.
April 20: Crazy Pete Hoekstra first writes Dennis Blair about briefings
April 22: WSJ publishes Crazy Pete op-ed saying Democrats were briefed and stating "I have asked Mr. Blair to provide me with a list of the dates, locations and names of all members of Congress who attended briefings on enhanced interrogation techniques;" CIA provides HPSCI an "interim list" of briefings; SSCI releases narrative
April 24: Crazy Pete writes a second letter to Blair
May 5: CIA completes "extensive review" of hard copies and electronic files about briefings, sends letter to Crazy Pete (and sends copy to SSCI in lieu of direct response to John Ensign request for list)
May 6: Crazy Pete Hoekstra receives Panetta letter
May 8: Crazy Pete promises more documents (note, even these newly promised documents may not say that Pelosi was briefed that CIA admitted it already had used waterboarding, which is the key point Pelosi has made, only that Pelosi was briefed on techniques that had been used, but not necessarily that she had been told it had been used)
A few things about this: Crazy Pete appears to have released his op-ed stating that,
It was not necessary to release details of the enhanced interrogation techniques, because members of Congress from both parties have been fully aware of them since the program began in 2002. We believed it was something that had to be done in the aftermath of the 9/11 terrorist attacks to keep our nation safe. After many long and contentious debates, Congress repeatedly approved and funded this program on a bipartisan basis in both Republican and Democratic Congresses.
…before he received the "interim list" of briefings (suggesting he made the claim based on either limited personal information, or information received from people like Porter Goss). And then, after receiving the "interim list" and presumably seeing the SSCI narrative, he sent a second letter to Blair. In response, Panetta provided a list, with some key data missing (such as the CIA briefers for much of 2005), as well as the caveat that Congress would have to determine whether the information is accurate.
So, as far as I can tell, CIA has twice sort of bought off on a chronology that stated their version was not correct (the first time when they acceded to the declassification of the SSCI narrative, the second time when Panetta included the caveat about torture). But Crazy Pete wants to make sure the CIA’s own notes from that 2002 briefing become public.
And meanwhile, Pat Roberts, who might be able to offer a third view on these issues, remains silent.
Has analyzing and discussing this chronology taken up time, energy, and distracted from focusing on Bush, Cheney, and their cabal? Yes.
No wonder Pat Roberts remains silent; it’s the smartest thing he’s done IMHO.
Whassamatter, Pat? Cat got yer tongue?
(Thanks, EW, for not letting this silence go unnoticed. Is this like the dog that didn’t bark in Sherlock Holmes?)
Bob in HI
CAT?
Very telling that he’s remaining silent, isn’t it? Thnx so much, EW.
And then here’s this, where the word ‘poignant’ takes on a meaning that is beyond my comprehension, as is this entire monstrous matter:
Hill Panel Reviewing CIA Tactics
Investigators Examining Interrogations, Legal Advice
By R. Jeffrey Smith
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, May 10, 2009
“When the Justice Department said seven years ago that CIA interrogators at a secret prison in Thailand could make a suspected al-Qaeda leader fear he was drowning, it prescribed precise limits: Water could be poured from a cup or small watering can onto a saturated cloth covering his mouth and nose, inhibiting breathing for up to 40 seconds. It could be repeated, after allowing three or four full breaths, for up to 20 minutes.
“But when the technique was employed on Abu Zubaida and later on 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheik Mohammed and al-Qaeda planner Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, the interrogators in several cases applied what the CIA’s Office of Inspector General described in a secret 2004 report as “large volumes of water” to the cloths, explaining that their aim was to be more “poignant and convincing,” according to a recently declassified Justice Department account.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..rss_nation
From your WaPo link:
Do they indeed.
“When the debate quiets …” Obviously not clued in to EW yet, those folks.
or maybe they are and the very statement means, “don’t hold your breath, it ain’t happening”
Maybe a second grader will ask Condi how she feels about that.
Right. I’ve been pointing out that poignant comment for at least two weeks now. Good to see they’ve caught up.
Being behind the news seems to be common. Will not forget the summerof 2003 when Peggy Gish started reporting in her weekly e mails about the torture reports that the Christian Peace Maker Team was hearing from family members of people in Abu Gharib. The CPT were taking these reports to high military officials in Baghdad and basically being told to beat it. The MSM did not report anything about the torture taking place for four to six months after what we would be sent by Paggy.
That pattern continued hearing far more from Peggy that would take months to get into the MSm
Here’s the talking point that I just don’t understand:
I keep seeing variants on this. Each one is more or less: “We were scared shitless, so we thought torture was okay! We HAD to do it to keep ourselves safe!” But here’s the part I don’t get: Why are these statements always in the past tense? Has something changed to modify our thinking? Right now is still after 9/11, isn’t it? And we still haven’t caught or killed Osama bin Laden, have we? (I’m pretty sure I would have remembered that.) So why doesn’t anyone with any real power have the balls to argue that torture is still okay today?
Oh goody, another dog not barking.
This was a prototypical tell during the Bush administration.
I’m going to guess that Roberts – in Secret – enthusiastically supported Bush’s Torture Program – Waterboarding and All – as well as Bush’s Warrantless-Wiretapping Program – Disregarding the 4th Amendment and All, too.
He can see the Anger Rising Against Pelosi – just on the Suspicion of her Complicity in Bush’s Torture – and now he very badly wants to be the Invisible Man.
Roberts is very likely, imvho, one of the most dirtied-in, totally Compromised, Bush Yes-Men.
cuz he has the right to remain silent. If he gives up that right, anything he says can and will be used against him in a court of law
he also has a right to an attorney, if he cannot afford an attorney …
I’m bettin pat has exercised BOTH parts of Mr Miranda’s legacy
if the truth would set any of these asshats free, we would hear the truth REAL QUICK
but don’t hold your breath …
the funniest fucking thing I’ve seen in a decade
sorry Wanda, you been upstaged …
What’s wrong with Kansas?
Done!
Carry on.
marcy, I wonder if you read this piece here?
It’s an interview with the fbi agent that wanted to arrest the contractors administering the torture program for cheney
if not please read it, then notice the bold in my snippet;
congress needs those corrections and they need them fast, I know you have contact with some people on the hill, you might suggest an invitation
I have a diary on the interview here with some fine commentary by our readers if you want to take a look at that too
Roberts is like Sal, going along with Sonny for the ride.
Ah? Good reminder.
perris — that is one fine diary you wrote.
A Silhouette of Infallible Guidance.
One more effort to nail this shut. Ah, the cover-up, coming undone…
Coming Attractions: Read about them here first!
The caveat from the provider of information to its consumer, that “I’m not vouching for the accuracy of the information I just gave you,” would be laughed out of court.
No deal negotiator would accept it. They would demand a representation that the information was accurate or that it be withdrawn. The CIA controls the data it holds and the process it used to identify, arrange and disseminate it. Congress should demand no less, or it’s asking to be made fools of. After all, it pays CIA (and the 70% of its budget that goes to private contractors) to be professional liars in service to its country. And it never stops doing its job.
It is rather odd, the CIA whose main business is the gathering, storing, integrating, analyzing and disseminating information, but doesn’t have briefing and post briefing notes, nor do the briefers seem to have the recollection you’d expect of an intel professional.
As to Roberts, you could insert any Congress critters name in maximizing CYA (or keeping their mouth shut) in fear somebody in the US remembers why we wasted so much parchment to write laws on.
Three interesting things I saw as I was motoring over here. Hope the early birds haven’t beaten me to it:
1) O/T, Iran-Contra and Dick ”Dick”. This is quite interesting,
Cheney Confirms Iran-Contra Cover-Up
http://www.tinyrevolution.com/…..02952.html
2) More on the torture memos:
Memos shed light on CIA use of sleep deprivation
”Though widely perceived as more effective and less objectionable than other interrogation methods, memos show it’s harsher and more controversial than most realize. And it could be brought back.”
http://www.latimes.com/news/na…..2131.story
3) O/T, or back to bmaz’ recent article on the US press:
The American Press on Suicide Watch
By FRANK RICH
Published: May 9, 2009
”IF you wanted to pick the moment when the American news business went on suicide watch, it was almost exactly three years ago. That’s when Stephen Colbert, appearing at the annual White House Correspondents’ Association dinner, delivered a monologue accusing his hosts of being stenographers who had, in essence, let the Bush White House get away with murder (or at least the war in Iraq).”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05……html?_r=3
Did you catch this dig in the Frank Rich column?
Seems like not even Rich gets it. “PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT IS SAID AND WRITTEN. ASSUME NOTHING. WATCH CAREFULLY. TAKE NOTES. AND ABOVE ALL, THINK.” Yes, Frank, war correspondents are wonderful, but as Colbert tried to tell you, most of the time you journalists are just buying the line laid out for you.
“But opinions, however insightful or provocative and whether expressed online or in print or in prime time, are cheap.”
Except his, of course.
And here’s Aravosis on the subject:
http://www.americablog.com/200…..-keep.html
China Daily has a blog dictionary defining lapdog and lackey. Starting to read the ‘brief’-ings grid, many intersects in the columns for staff and for Langley et al representatives seemed either blank or redacted in whiteout so as not to give the appearance of omission in this multiagency list approved for publication. Roberts, indeed. BobGraham got one honorable mention. Then there is JHarman’s aide “O’Keefe (first name unknown)”; maybe a meeting without a thorough scrivener.
The Guantanamo labyrinth
Does an enemy combatant have rights? Chicago lawyer Candace Gorman is risking her career to find out.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/…..ory?page=1
Ooh, that looks like a hell of a story Fatster. I am anxious to read that a little later.
Okay folks, Happy Mothers Day! I will be off in a little bit with my wife and daughter (all of us are pumped) to see the new Trek. It is our prime directive today. So, if I don’t get to check in until I am back, you all have a good time and don’t destroy any furniture. I am working on a post on the speech and debate clause in relation to Pelosi and Rockefeller et. al, but have a good bit to go on it before posting.
See you soon!
Have fun! Fatster’s article is great. (Thanks, fatster!) A taste:
Thanks, Loo Hoo, but I only found the article. Those lawyers are true heroes, aren’t they? So glad the article is there to publicize the magnificent work the lawyers do.
“I am working on a post on the speech and debate clause in relation to Pelosi and Rockefeller et. al. . . .”
Hot dog! While I’m sure I’ll never be conversant on such matters, I do enjoy learning about them.
Just finished the article. Where do we put the anger?
See also Loo Hoo’s quote @ 37: no question that force feeding is torture — we’ve known that for a century. And some sadists were suggesting removing the tube surgically? There is a surgeon in the U.S. who would do that? If so, we need a new Doctors’ Trial now.
Doctors, psychiatrists and psychologists.
excellent catch !!!
“Guantanamo is more Kafka than Kafka.”
“But opportunistic locals, enticed by the $5,000 bounty that the U.S. had put on the heads of “Arab fighters,” kidnapped him and sold him to the Northern Alliance, an Afghan militia supported by the U.S., which, in turn, collected the lucrative reward from the Americans”
“Despite repeated claims by the Bush administration and its supporters in Congress that the vast majority of the detainees were “vicious killers” who had been “captured on the battlefield,” it turns out that only about 5 percent of the detainees were captured by U.S. forces. Most of the rest — 86 percent, according to a detailed study by Seton Hall University School of Law — were rounded up by the Northern Alliance or Pakistani security forces in exchange for the reward money, or because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.”
“Aside from the 14 “high value” detainees who were brought to Guantanamo in September 2006, virtually all of the remaining 241 prisoners are being held because, as Hood put it, “nobody wants to be the one to sign the release papers.”
All based on bribed intel
Now we use the same intel to designate a “target” for the Predator drone
consequently bypassing the whole rendition program with all the legal problems. Aside from catching a few inocent civilians in the mix it’s a far cleaner approach
Is there a hole for me to get sick in?
To all the moms out there, including one certain blog mother— well, let’s make that several blog mothers– EW, Jane, & Christy–
HAPPY MOTHER’S DAY!!!
(Please ’scuse the shouting)
Bob in HI
And thank you for your kindness. All Nurturers: Take a bow!
The link to the full post for the post after this one is broken. (Can’t comment there, b/c link won’t pull down to the rest or to the comments).
Do you mean emptywheel’s post?
Memo to WaPo: Torture Is Not Just Waterboarding
Well, I think the obvious guess is that he knows things and he has lawyered up, and/or is working on getting immunity in exchange for testimony.
My second guess is that he’s working with CIA/Cheney and/or fears for the lives of the people he loves.
I suppose all four could also be true. Ugh, that would be a worst case scenario.
The fact that Pat Roberts did everything to run interference for the Office of Special Plans during Phase I and Phase II of the SSCI examining the false and cherry picked pre-war inteligence. Not surprising that he would have his fingers in the torture pie.
Anybody willing to take this question to Mr. Greider over at Jane’s Salon (banned last year by RBG for not backing down on an I/P discussion).
Mr. Greider the other day during an interview with Amy Goodman you said that during the last year Wall Street and big business did everything they could to “suppress wages” while setting “deregulation free” Can you please talk about the successful efforts of big business to “suppress wages” for years now.
Slightly O/T. It’s humor. But well done. And credits EW in one place. It will give you a break from the heavy stuff. But does relate to the tortured theme we’re following. Presents a fictional meeting between some of the players as if planning more torture.
Mr. Greider also had a great deal to say about the history and purpose of the Federal Reserve. Hope someone brings up the Fed. over at Jane’s Salon
EW ” The CIA has twice sort of bought off on a chronology that stated their version was not correct”
Do they run all of these organizations with several sets of books and notes? Sure appears to be so
Marcy- Did you notice this odd wording in the 9/4 [& later 9/27/02 for others] briefing of Pelosi and Goss.
“Briefing on EITs including use of EITs on Abu Zubaydah, background on authorities, and a description of the particular EITs that had been employed.”
Just a bit of grammatical doubt about this. Why doesn’t it say
“Briefing on EITs including a description of the particular EITs that had been used on Abu Zubaydah; including background on authorities” ???
That would seem more concise, would it not? Why phrase it this other way? Why the shift from the ambiguous tense “use”…to the definitite past participle “USED”?
Why is the reference to authorities immediately following the potentially prospective action?
Remember as well that there could be two briefings, or perhaps a supplementary briefing for Goss. Perhaps the use of the CIA language reflects a composite of both those briefings…at one Pelosi was told about the authorities and “future actions” that might be taken? And note that the CIA explicitly states that the “full description of water boarding” (and perhaps the first), came at a briefing in 2003, which Pelosi was not in attendance at.
Was Goss the only one told about the past treatment of Zubaydah…and that this came before the “authorities” were issued?
Something about this wording seems very strange to me if the briefing was the same (and not a composite summary) and if Zubaydah’s past and prospective water boarding and other EITs were being presented clearly and forthrightly?
Furthermore, hasn’t it been the line that once they water boarded al Zubaydah they didn’t need to torture him any more? So why would they approach the Congress for additional EIT applications on someone that was “cooperating”?
I suspect it means “briefing of the techniques used with AZ but not notice that it was used.”
Remember, in his public comments Goss doesn’t seem to dispute that. Nor does Pelosi, I don’t think.
If any of Abu Zubaydah’s “applications” occurred prior to the reporting to Congress doesn’t that make a mockery over the “advise and consent” role of Congress? It’s pretty much…okay approve a fait accomplis except we aren’t telling you that it has already happened so your opinion is worth caca. And they got their OLC legal opinions post-hoc as well.
Like the Red Queen it was “Sentence First…Trial Later”. And Cheney was the one that jumped the gun on all of the requirements, I bet.
Are there any penalties for the Executive ignoring its duties and responsibilities in this process? Unless there are penalties that are enforced for failing to report, or for providing false or incomplete or misleading information, what is to keep a future executive from just ignoring its duties and responsibilities?
Bob in HI
ALL the applications of the waterboard happened before they briefed Congress, and I’m 85% sure they didn’t tell Congress they had USED those techniques. So yes, it’s a mockery of Congressional oversight.