Sully Goes to Washington
After Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger and his union crew brought US Airways 1549 to a safe landing and evacuation on the Hudson River last month, I pointed out that most of the key parties involved in the rescue–the pilots, the flight attendants, the ferry crews, the first responders, and the air traffic controllers–had all benefited from years of union activism demanding better safety training.
But Sully, who testifies before the Aviation Subcommittee of the House today, says that the cuts airlines have demanded of pilots in recent years have been chasing the best pilots out of the business, which may lead to a decline in safety in the industry.
It is an incredible testament to the collective character, professionalism and dedication of my colleagues in the industry that they are still able to function at such a high level. It is my personal experience that my decision to remain in the profession I love has come at a great financial cost to me and my family. My pay has been cut 40%, my pension, like most airline pensions, has been terminated and replaced by a PBGC guarantee worth only pennies on the dollar.
While airline pilots are by no means alone in our financial struggles – and I want to acknowledge how difficult it is for everyone right now – it is important to underscore that the terms of our employment have changed dramatically from when I began my career, leading to an untenable financial situation for pilots and their families. When my company offered pilots who had been laid off the chance to return to work, 60% refused. Members, I attempt to speak accurately and plainly, so please do not think I exaggerate when I say that I do not know a single professional airline pilot who wants his or her children to follow in their footsteps.
I am worried that the airline piloting profession will not be able to continue to attract the best and the brightest. The current experience and skills of our country’s professional airline pilots come from investments made years ago when we were able to attract the ambitious, talented people who now frequently seek lucrative professional careers. That past investment was an indispensible element in our commercial aviation infrastructure, vital to safe air travel and our country’s economy and security. If we do not sufficiently value the airline piloting profession and future pilots are less experienced and less skilled, it logically follows that we will see negative consequences to the flying public – and to our country.
We face remarkable challenges in our industry. In order to ensure economic security and an uncompromising approach to passenger safety, management must work with labor to bargain in good faith. We must find collective solutions that address the huge economic issues we face in recruiting and retaining the experienced and highly skilled professionals that the industry requires and that passenger safety demands. But further, we must develop and sustain an environment in every airline and aviation organization – a culture that balances the competing needs of accountability and learning. We must create and maintain the trust that is the absolutely essential element of a successful and sustainable safety reporting system to detect and correct deficiencies before they lead to an accident. We must not let the economic and financial pressures detract from a focus on constantly improving our safety measures and engaging in ongoing and comprehensive training. In aviation, the bottom line is that the single most important piece of safety equipment is an experienced, well-trained pilot.
The hero of the "Miracle on the Hudson" just told Congress that unless our country starts valuing the experience and commitment of labor, it will lead to less safe conditions and economic consequences.
You think maybe Congress will listen to Sully?
I doubt it, it might take time away from their focus on saving Bud Selig by investigating steroids in baseball.
Selig and Cheney! Has anyone ever seen them in the same room?
Hey, that’s “Bug” Selig….
Worse Commish in baseball history…
from Hit-a-Homer, Braves ex-mascot
It could have been worse. Shrub wanted to be commissioner of baseball at one time. Can you imagine how bad MLB would be at this point under his, ahem, leadership?
Yes. He might have labelled The Yanks, Sox, and Mets, the Axis of
Evil?
Would he have insisted that he was on the side of the Angels?
The Born-Again Angels…
Now there is a fascinating theological concept!
If only he could have taken that course. Everything in the world (except major league baseball) would be a helluva lot better off now.
Currently in the US, 1,000’s of pilots in training are paying around a $100,000 for an opportunity to join the Airlines. These students want to fly regardless of conditions or pay and only after multiple furloughs and continued poor pay will they become jaded. In order to get to the hallowed hall of the Airline, they will be instructors at minimum or not pay, or Corporate or Airmail Pilots to gain flight time and skills. There will always be pilots waiting to advance to the left seat.
The difference in skill levels is evident in two cases. The first involving Captain Sullenberger, whose experienced crew rose to the occasion and with excellent skill and good fortune saved everyone on board. The opposite is true with the Continental Connection (operated by Colgan Air) that crashed earlier this month. The investigation is in its early stage, yet we know a relatively low time Pilot and Co-Pilot continued flight in icing conditions, apparently on auto-pilot during approach, and reacted incorrectly to the problem. The plane apparently stalled and entered a spin at low altitude.
The plaintiffs attorneys smell blood.
PS The Air Traffic Controllers (union)in the US Air emergency, though relegated to watching the drama unfold, also acted with professionalism at its highest standard and did what they could. Departure immediately contacted LaGuardia tower Controllers. The tower instantly gave the flight access to any runway they could make. Calm was the word that day.
Well done Capt Sullenberger- again! People have to take some note of what he says.
But please don’t pre-judge the NTSB investigation of the Colgan Air crash, and especially don’t encourage the legal ambulance chasers on contingency fees before the report, for that also prejudices safety, and nothing should be allowed to prejudice safety..
Ambulance chasers are fully automatous, self serving and have already setup web pages for relatives of the crash victims. Just Google to check it out.
Nice take-off and perfect three-point landing! Great work, Captain.
I would think that airline safety has been compromised more by the cutbacks in maintanence personnel
I thought the Air Force Academy trained a great many pilots who end up in flying commercially. Don’t know what % of commercial pilots they are though.
Military pilots training is post college, not at the academy. FYI
True for the most part, but at the AFA they do screening of pilot candidates by putting them through a course in general aviation-type training aircraft. If they pass that, then they can move up to true military flight training, in actual military aircraft.
You mean they don’t learn how to fly at the Air Force Academy? WTF DO they do there?
I had assumed that because at a fund raiser, I asked Charlie Brown about the AFA, and he told me that part of the problem was that they have a divided mission, training military pilots and training commercial pilots. Now you tell me that they don’t teach pilots!
WTF DO they do there?
Learn about Jaysus!
Well, except for that. I should have included that caveat in my question.
Charlie Brown did not have a very good explanation for why the christianists got so much power there, though he did say that the stories are true and then some.
The AFA is a military colege. They get a college degree and have some military classes. There is no cost but a commitment to serve. If they drop out they are like an E5 or something. My son did his initial flight training at Vance AFB where they went through two different jets. Then onto specific training in the aircraft they will be flying. My son is now a flight instructor himself doing the initial training.
I believe all the service academies (West Point, Annapolis, and AFA) give “get out of jail free” cards allowing students to leave after 2nd year with no penalty owed to their service.
That is true.
Yep, that’s what Gonzo did…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberto_Gonzales
Your son’s training at Vance was after graduation?
Yes. He had already been commissioned. They are commissioned upon graduation.
Oh, and is AFA is just another college with some military courses thrown in, what makes it different, if anything, from West Point & Annapolis?
Very similar different courses and different uniforms. *g*
A distinction without a difference, huh?
There is some course work that prepares them for whichever branch they are going in.
They do.
And then those pilots go on to fly different planes under different conditions trying to sustain and improve the skills the taxpayers taught them. THAT training largely comes courtesy of work unions put in and longevity won through union benes. Sully was very active in the pre-US Airways only union making sure pilots have ongoing safety training.
foothillsmike sez AFA doesn’t train pilots.
The additional training is critical, I admit. Hadn’t thought about that.
Not sure if it’s been posted but the students get glider, single engine land, and multi-engine land ratings. They also skydive and have big game hunting (archery) on post.
You think maybe Congress will listen to Sully?
How many of them fly commercially? Nothing will change.
Arbusto at #3: Quite a few airline pilots have a military background, where they can get their flight training and experience free of charge in exchange for serving. Not that many go the ab initio route, because of the tremendous expense. That’s not to say that the ab initio pilots are less qualified–most of the international carriers go this route, including some with sterling safety records–but that in the U.S. at least it is difficult for most people to accomplish.
Regional airlines have a lot of young pilots who are almost uniformly poorly paid. They still do a good job for the most part, but most are passing through looking for a seat on one of the mainlines.
A lot of pilots of my generation are now driving trucks because of airline furloughs, bankruptcies, and mergers. I’m glad I got out while I was still in school and got a DVM instead–at least people still get their pets seen!
I wonder if these committee members were expecting Sullenberger to be such a live wire. Good. They need to be slapped around a little bit. And not much they can pontificate back about when they’re dealing with a genuine hero.
Google just informs me that Sully is an AFAcademy grad.
The pilot of the jet that crashed near Buffalo had only 110 hours of flight training in that particular aircraft.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29244493/
tbsa #9: Most Congress members fly commercial, actually–I think the only exceptions are for the Speaker (you recall the famous airplane flap by Adam Putnam) and for congressional trips on official business overseas. Now whether or not change comes as a result of this is an open question, but they don’t all get personal jets for their use!
remember the fox loser who got reamed by the mayor of lansing? the guy who claimed the auto workers get $70 an hour? when actually they get $25 (the $70 includes pension and healthcare)?
he reflects the deregulators’ mindset. if captain sully went on faux or cnbc, he’d be told how he’s getting $90 an hour and needs to stop whining already.
Our airline carriers were not well served by deregulation thanks to the Repukes, who have pushed deregulation and profit over safety. Ronnie did to the Air Traffic controllers what deregulation has done across the board to the Airlines industry. The Air Traffic controllers continue to lose good, dedicated people because of overwork, forced overtime and little pay in incentives.
This whole deregulation for profit has served the public poorly and made a few millions while we the public has had our risk factors increased ten fold. It is time that the deregulation gets put under a microscope to see if the public good has been degraded and if so the regulations are put back in place!
This is just one more area that Deregulation has FAILED the American People and made the Rich Richer at our expense.
Actually, it was President Carter who signed the Airline Deregulation Act of 1979. Most industry observers even before then envisioned a future airline industry in the U.S. made up of mega-carriers as the result of mergers or bankruptcies. Reagan really didn’t have a hand in that at all; his main claim to infamy was breaking the PATCO strike in 1981.
I was just using Regan’s breaking of the Controllers union as another example of how the whole air transportation has been degraded by both the Deregulation and the breaking of the Air Traffic Controllers Union. The Air lines have not been the same since all this took place! A well regulated Industry seems to work best. There are still profits to be made and the public good is looked after!
Yep–that about says it all, huh?
Sure seems that way to me. Are there any positive examples out there where Deregulation has done the Public any real good, except may lower air fares at the expense of safety.
Well, maybe we can recycle some out of work bankers.
Flying Spaghetti Monster is *my* co-pilot.
‘afternoon, all-
I know when I was in the Air Force, there was a constant, ongoing recruiting effort by the major airlines to get qualified people. Not just pilots, although there ere plenty of those…they also were constantly on the hunt for technicians, and especially tech-trainers, who could train their people in new technology.
Has deregulation worked well for *anything*? Iz r Democrats learnin’?
Well, airline regulation worked splendidly for the white upper classes who were the only ones who could afford to fly then.
West Point (US Military Academy) = Army
Annapolis (US Naval Academy) = Navy and Marines
Air Force Academy = Air Force Folks haven’t gotten around to just calling it ‘Colorado Springs’ – probably because there’s a lot more there and the Academy came after the city)
I believe there is also a Coast Guard academy
Yes, in New London, CT although run slightly differently than the others. Or at least it used to be. (No telling nowadays since I believe the Coast Guard got moved to DHS from Treasury)
Coast Guard Academy.
Merchant Marine Academy.
Um, last I looked, Annapolis was the capital of MD, along with having the military academy. What are the other distinguishing features of Colorado Springs? I know that megachurches is probably one.
They also carved out a mountain to make the headquarters for I believe NORAD
Yes. Cheyenne Mountain. A friend of mine used to joke about how there were so many Soviet warheads targeted on it that they should call it Cheyenne Lake.
True, but when the Naval Academy was founded, it was the dominant feature for Annapolis, even though Maryland was one of the original thirteen.
Colorado Springs, besides the mega churches is IIRC also the home of Petersen Field and some other military installations that were there prior to the Academy. And I think Cheyenne Mountain is near there as well (NORAD)
They also have a lot of great mountain escapes and Pikes Peak
Heh. I drove up Pikes Peak decades ago. I don’t even remember being in Colorado Springs, though I do remember seeing it on road signs.
It has been growing like crazy over the past two decades.
there’s something very painterly about that photograph of the plane in the water.
The airline piloting profession may not be able to continue to attract the best and the brightest, but i probably could attract pilots like George W. Bush.
should read “but it probably could”
Yeah, what Sullenberger says is true. I am a current airline pilot for a regional carrier or what is known as “fee for departure” carrier. I am an ALPA member (the pilots union) and I make close to/slightly above minimum wage if you consider all the hours I spend both “on reserve” and flying. Nominally I get paid a “guarantee” negotiated because of ALPA of $29/hour for 70 hours/month whether I fly or not, but it gets better… if I’m not flying I have to sit on “reserve” for 19-21 days a month for 12 hours a day (do the math… 12 x 19 = 228 hours) and I still get only $2030/month or $8.90 an hour, less for 21 days.
Add to that we have been living under rules written by airline execs and lobbyists over the last eight years (did you know that the company can call me in the middle of “reduced” rest period when I’m asleep and bother me…if I can’t go back to sleep, do you want me flying you around?) because it was better to annoy pilots and flight attendants than give us better working conditions that might reduce their own fat salaries.
Is the is a bit of a personal bitch-fest? Yes. But next time you get on a plane with that cheap fare (except maybe Jet Blue or Soutwest, they do treat their folks well), think about this: it’s killing my profession as surely as Bush killed America Justice… we have no pensions left, we get paid minimum wages by our companies because they are all competing in a “race to the bottom” to be the cheapest carrier, and stay in business. I am happy I have still have a job and thank ALPA for that. I don’t know what the future holds, the airline business is cyclical as the weather, I just hope we have sunnier days for labor under the Obama administration.
It’s pretty bleak right now.
Thank you for every safe flight you make. I have landed a few times in rough weather and am always thankful that the folks up front know what they are doing.
Do you know exactly what happened with US Airways when they went to their own union? I know Sully was really active in ALPA but appears not to be in US Airways’ union.
I just hope we have sunnier days for labor under the Obama administration.
Indeed. Good luck, Jo Fish!
Jo Fish, would you describe in more detail what you mean by “on reserve“? I’m trying to figure out if that’s a strict pilot-industry phenomenon, or if that’s serving in The Reserves, say, Air Force Reserves.
I would not presume to speak for Jo Fish but my reading of the “on reserve” is a pilot status – maybe the airline equivalent of being a “stand-by passenger” – that is, available to be a replacement crew for however often.
Back on to the airlines and the problems they have…deteriorating safety, service, schedules,…it’s getting to be that air travel should be avoided, not looked forward to.
I think getting the airlines out of short route service by improving trains is the way to go because trains are actually faster than planes on these routes (home to destination time and with European quality train service). For example, London to Paris fares cost MORE by train because it is actually faster (home to actual destination)than it is to go by plane.
BTW, Sully has a masters in psychology from Purdue.
getting the airlines out of short route service by improving trains
That’s a good idea…that might also spur private aviation.
I love trains, I hate planes. Although I admit I go into an altered state when I travel which keeps me unaware of the hubub around me.
I used to love flying commercially but since 9/11 I am not willing to put up with the crap. Flying private is still fun unless you get into turbulence.
I get a queasy stomach in small planes. (I think its the fuel smell more than the motion.) I took one flying lesson. The teacher happened also to be a medical student, so I asked him, and he said that I would probably overcome it if I kept at it, but I wasn’t interested enough.
Was part owner of a Mooney for a while with my son. Enjoyed it.
My lesson was on a Cesna.
There is a wine tasting train trip through the rockies that you would probably enjoy. Visit several wineries in the western part of the state then return. Mellow time.*g*
Hmmm. That sounds great. I’ll keep it in mind.
Have never been on a train, but I have been entranced by flying since I was a little boy. Perhaps I should consider a train trip.
More room, able to wander about, possibility of good scenary, depending on the route. (The NE corridor is a garbage dump for the most part, but the train from NYC to Buffalo has gorgeous scenery for most of the route.)
Took the train from NYC to Montreal and it was nice. Also through France to Italy was nice but I am not a fan of expansion joints.
While in the Army in Germany I traveled many times on trains and they were by and large a great way to travel and the scenery was great. Got to see many things that you just wouldn’t have seen by traveling by any other method. And one thing about the trains there is they were on time! If they said the train would leave at 1pm the train was moving at 1pm so you had better be on it! The prettiest trip was from Pirmasens to Stuttgart through the Black Forest in the winter, truly spectacular!
Trains are great. When I was AF, I took a train cross country from Louisville, via Chicago, to SF (where I caught the plane to Hawaii). I had a coach seat form Louisville to Chicago overnight on a Saturday, a day to kill in Chicago on Sunday then two days to SF in a single sleeper cabin. Very relaxed, folks playing cards and talking as the beauty of the Plains roll by.
And spent most of Y2K commuting weekly from Hartford to NYC on Amtrak. Just way more relaxed than any “airline experience”
Howie’s up with DC vote.
What a humble man and crew.
Had no idea a bunch of birds could take down the engines. How many birds could there have been?
I got my license when I was 19 and flew for several years just for giggles. I did, however, work in operations for one major that will remain unnamed (based in Atlanta)….. and 95% or more of the pilots were previous military. We paid to train Mr Sullenberger with our taxes. Not to take anything away from the service that they give to their country or the nice peice of airwork by the pilot. He was truthful when he said that it was how you’re trained. Not one training flight I ever took did my instructor fail to, at some point, pull my throttles back have me make an approach to a field or highway or anything I could come up with. My point is, that back in the day the pilots ran the show. They got what concessions they wanted and constantly complained that the ground crew were overpaid. As an operations agent one of my jobs was to manually do weight and balance calculations on everything from a 737 to a L1011 in case of computer system down. Not to brag, but they tried to get the pilots to learn do the manual calculations and, according to the instructors, they soon phased out the training and expressed concern that the ramp rats could do that kind of math. I have never met a pilot that didn’t get into flying for the fun of it. Times are tough. I would hope the Captain would take his deserved praise. The only pilots I knew that were leaving before retirement were the ones getting the hot rods…. Falcon, Gulfstream, Citation,. Just as much time away from the family though….
Back to the Buffalo crash and pilot error, that may not be easy to do as the investigation goes on:
Southwest Cautions Pilots About Buffalo Runway Hazard
A ground obstruction may affect the equipment that guides inbound planes, possibly causing an aircraft to slow to an unsafe speed, Southwest said in the advisory issued 13 days before the Continental Connection crash.
The glitch affects planes on autopilot and can cause the nose to pitch up at a 30 degree angle, according to the alert. The data recorder recovered after the Continental Connection crash showed that the nose rose 31 degrees after an automated stall-prevention device put the plane into a dive to gain speed,…
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/…..refer=home
Hahaha, this guy is now some sort of airline business expert? Labor expert? Emptywheel, you never fail to amaze me with your bs filler articles.
What a coincidence. You never fail to amaze me with your knack of appearing out of nowhere to be an insulting superficial cad. Go figure.
No, bio. This is big.
Sully happened to be the right person for that very issue. All flight safety issues have been addressed by pilots, without compensation, trying to make the air traffic system safer. Not one “corporation” has ever contributed to such, only a love of profession and career, gratis from the pilot professionals, has made your transit safer.
I personally know Sully, his dedication to saving lives is well known, I cannot think of a better person for this to happen to. I am reminded of USAirways punishment of professional pilots by having them “attend” a fuel school when they “requested too much fuel”, the timeline was first quarter, the winter. They requested extra fuel too many times (the worst “offender” requested extra fuel 40% of the time), and with no consideration of any relevant factors,management tried to impose pure punishment. This is the same management “team” who blew half a billion on junk bonds, yet tell their employees they cannot “afford” to pay them more. Bastards.
As I recall, the pilots were only asking for the extra fuel to comply with the recognized safety norms in case some emergency caused them to be in the air longer than expected, but the carrier wanted to minimize every pound of weight possible in order to save fuel.
Here’s a good CG reconstruction of the takeoff to landing using the tower tapes
from Live Leak
EW,
Thanks for your post and for your initial post which pointed policy readers to the “story” behind Sully.
Thanks for shining lights in the right direction for policy.
I second those thanks.
And that photo above — each time I’ve seen it, just before I get my eyes focused, I think for a moment that I’m looking at a Turner painting.
Thanks for that post, Marcy. It inspired me to write a little something.
cocktailhag.com/blog
OT – Just a reminder that tommorrow:
The webcast will be here.
And another OT reminder that tomorrow (via SFGate):
That Feb. 11 order is here (via EFF).
And in more OT news about stuff happening tomorrow, from the AP via OregonLive.com:
And that is the Binyam Mohamed case I was discussing in the AIPAC thread that is currently in Mary Schroeder’s hands. No clue what she will do, it has been a long time, but my knowledge of her is all positive and fairly liberal minded. Who knows what an extra 15 years on the bench could do to affect her, but I trust her instincts from my past knowledge. She is the chief judge for the 9th and leads this panel it is pretty clear from the questioning she supplied at the last hearing.
I’ve got my fingers crossed for the 9th, but though Blue is my favorite color, I ain’t holding my breath. *g*
And here and here is where we discussed that order and where Walker may be heading.
I know I am late to this thread, but don’t republicans fly too? Why would they want lax safety? Some things are hard to understand.
so do we live in a whole new world now
Obama speaks to the masses, and bobby jindal pulls a skunk outta his ass
and we got to see it all LIVE