Rove's "Renewed" Privilege Assertion: Is It Absolute Immunity or Executive Privilege?

Thanks to MadDog for finding someone besides Gloria Borger discussing Bush’s recent letter reasserting his support for Rove to blow off Congress.

It’s unclear, from the reporting, whether the letter reasserts absolute immunity or asserts, for the first time, old-fashioned executive privilege regarding the information Conyers subpoenaed Rove to testify about. The WSJ speaks clearly in terms of "renewed assertion," suggesting Bush is making the same argument that he did earlier for Rove, that presidential aides can simply blow off Congressional subpoenas pertaining to their official duties. 

Robert Luskin, Mr. Rove’s attorney, said Mr. Rove recently received a renewed privilege assertion from President Bush, before the president left office. Mr. Luskin said he would consult with Mr. Obama’s White House counsel to determine the Obama administration’s stance.

But in an interview with the WaPo, Luskin clearly discusses executive privilege.

Robert D. Luskin, an attorney for Rove, said his client will "abide by a final decision from the courts." Luskin noted that Bush, in a letter to Rove, recently reasserted executive privilege.

"It’s generally agreed that former presidents retain executive privilege as to matters occurring during their term," Luskin said. "We’ll solicit the views of the new White House counsel and, if there is a disagreement, assume that the matter will be resolved among the courts, the president and the former president."

I wouldn’t make too much of that, though, because Luskin has very consistently tried to normalize the radical assertion of absolute immunity Rove relied on last year by talking in more general terms of privilege.

So thus far, we know Rove has a new piece of paper, but we don’t know what is on that paper.

And that could make all the difference between whether we get Rove testimony within hours of Holder taking over at DOJ, or whether Rove’s testimony gets litigated for some time going forward. Here’s why (for background read this post and this post). What follows is my NAL description–those of you with real credentials here, feel free to correct me where I screw this up.

Executive privilege is a constitutionally recognized privilege for the President to shield certain topics from the scrutiny of the other branches, the idea being that Courts or Congress should not be able to snoop into the Executive’s doings in matters that they have no constitutionally recognized business snooping in. There is some debate about what the Executive has to do to properly invoke executive privilege (is a letter good enough, for example), but there is no debate that executive privilege must be balanced with the needs of the other branches. Thus, if Courts need stuff from the President for a case, they can overcome an executive privilege claim. Or, if Congress needs stuff from the President so as to conduct legitimate oversight or legislate, they can overcome an executive privilege claim. When there’s a dispute about whether the Executive has properly balanced these claims, it goes to court and you fight about it.

Absolute immunity, though based in the principle that the President gets certain privileges from being bothered unnecessarily by the Courts or Congress, is something else entirely. It claims there is a privilege above and beyond all this balancing privilege (which is where the "absolute" comes from), one that says the President and his aides can simply refuse to show up before Congress when subpoenaed about matters pertaining to their official duties, regardless of whether Congress has an interest in those duties too. Absolute immunity has never been endorsed by a Court. In fact, it exists solely in the fantastic scribblings of three OLC opinions, originally a Rehnquist opinion written under Reagan, used again under Clinton, and most recently in a Stephen Bradbury opinion written to prevent Harriet Miers from showing up before HJC. To make things even more sketchy, Bradbury’s opinion contradicted Rehnquist’s on one key point–Rehnquist only imagined absolute immunity to extend to current aides (the logic being Congress had to be prevented from dragging them away from their service to the President), whereas Bradbury claimed absolute immunity extended to former aides. It is, in short, an audacious power grab that exists, thus far, only in the minds of more expansive OLC lawyers.

Which is why the question of whether Rove’s new letter says "absolute immunity" or "executive privilege" makes such a big difference.

Let’s assume, for the moment, that it says, "absolute immunity" but mentions nothing about garden variety executive privilege. I said no Court had recognized absolute immunity. But one Court has, in fact, weighed in on this absolute immunity garbage: John Bates laughed it out of his court room back in July.

Indeed, the aspect of this lawsuit that is unprecedented is the notion that Ms. Miers is absolutely immune from compelled congressional process. The Supreme Court has reserved absolute immunity for very narrow circumstances, involving the President’s personal exposure to suits for money damages based on his official conduct or concerning matters of national security or foreign affairs. The Executive’s current claim of absolute immunity from compelled congressional process for senior presidential aides is without any support in the case law. The fallacy of that claim was presaged in United States v. Nixon itself (id. at 706):

neither the doctrine of separation of powers, nor the need for confidentiality of high level communications, without more, can sustain an absolute, unqualified Presidential privilege of immunity from judicial [or congressional] process under all circumstances.

Now, Bush appealed Bates’ ruling and that case is ongoing (thanks to Conyers’ jujitsu with the rules this year).  Who knows what will happen, though, once Holder and Dawn Johnsen take over at DOJ? They might enthusiastly support Bush’s appeal, believing that this absolute immunity sounds nifty–though I doubt it, not in the expansive, Bradbury-form in which Bush is claiming it. Johnsen might, conservatively, say, "golly, Bradbury sure screwed up this notion of absolute immunity when he claimed it worked for former aides. That opinion can’t be let stand" and withdraw it (in which case the general idea, invented by Rehnquist, but not Bradbury’s audacious expansion of the idea, would remain). This would moot the HJC suit against Miers and (now) Rove, since they only ever "qualified" for absolute immunity under Bradbury’s crazy expansion to include former aides. Or, they could simply decide to drop the appeal, in which case Bates’ very narrow reading of absolute immunity would stand.

I may be wrong about this, but if they dropped the appeal, then Bates’ opinion would become a precedent, and Turdblossom would have zero grounds not to testify before Congress. And unless Bush has already or then invoked proper executive privilege, the Rove couldn’t even refuse to answer individual questions on those grounds. He could still invoke the 5th, mind you. But I’d expect him to come in and do one of his certified spin jobs, which have gotten him through sworn testimony in at least two prior cases (remember, he spoke to Fitz five times in the Plame investigation). 

And contrary to what you’re reading in just about every story on this, all of this has very little to do with Obama’s Executive Opinion on Presidential Records. Obviously, it’s different because the EO talks exclusively about records, and not testimony from human beings. But more importantly, the EO deals with a totally different kind of privilege (the garden variety kind) than Rove has relied on thus far in his subpoenas from HJC. The EO certainly suggests that Obama won’t endorse anything as extreme as Bradbury has put together, but it is a separate issue.

Which brings us to what happens if Bush has, for the first time, invoked garden variety executive privilege for Rove in this case, in addition to or instead of absolute immunity. That would set off two different sets of potential litigation. First, if Bush wanted, he might choose to fight the principle espoused in Obama’s EO and insist that former Presidents retain their own privilege, and an incumbent President–and his Attorney General–cannot override that. This might happen–but consider the irony if it does. After all, Bush’s first act as President was to write his own Executive Order to protect Poppy’s records giving Presidents control over their own records. If he wants Jeb or Jenna to–when they become President–reverse Obama’s most recent Executive Order via Executive Order, he’s going to have to accept the authority of an incumbent President’s Executive Order to override a former President’s Executive Order. Suffice it to say, if Dick Cheney is lurking anywhere in Bush’s vicinity, I don’t think this is going to happen.

The other litigation that could (and arguably rightly should) happen is a legal test of whether or not HJC has a good reason to need Rove’s testimony about the USA Purge and Siegelman. While this is a legitimate thing to litigate, I think Bush’s claim here will be thrown out eventually in any case. Not only is there an established basis for Congressional oversight, but one of the things Congress was (trying to) do in all of this was figure out whether their response to the PATRIOT Provision (which had, briefly, given the AG power to appoint interim US Attorneys) was sufficient. That is, Congress was engaged in legislating in an area reserved to them by the Constitution. So while Bush might be able to shield some details about why he fired who he did (but it’ll be harder in the case of Bud Cummins, since Bush had a PATRIOT provision appointment selected well before Cummins was fired, suggesting that the now defunct law drove that decision), Congress has pretty significant authority in this area.

All of which remains speculative and hypothetical until we see Rove’s letter and get an Obama DOJ into place.

Update: backed of "settled law" per scribe’s comments

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  1. 4jkb4ia says:

    Syntax police

    “Courts or Congress should only be able to snoop into the Executive’s doings in matters that they have no constitutionally recognized business snooping in.”

    Without the “no” this sentence makes much more sense.

    • emptywheel says:

      That’s not at question (and btw that was linked here yesterday, in usable PDF format).

      What’s at question is what Rove’s NEW letter from Bush permitting him not to show up says.

      One type of letter might lead to 8 more months of litigation–or not. Another might lead accidentally to the creation of settled law ruling out absolute immunity.

  2. JTMinIA says:

    I, personally, hope that they are asserting absolute immunity and also hoping that Obama and/or Holder are interested in there being a return to the rule of law. I say this because I (naively, maybe) believe that even the Roberts Court will not back this idea.

    Two hopes and one belief, and no alcohol to fuel them. If nothing else, that’s change.

    • emptywheel says:

      If Obama doesn’t want AI at all, I think the easy way to create settled law is to just drop the appeal. I don’t think it would have to go any further.

      Voila. They already know what the opinion reads. It is very narrow. But if they’re happy with that, then there seems to be no better way to invalidate the OLC opinions than that opinion.

  3. foothillsmike says:

    If Bush is issuing a letter granting immunity is he stating that Rove was operating on his behalf in both the USA firings and the Seligman case?

    • Leen says:

      Interesting

      What a cat and mouse game. Just wish our congress and the Obama administration were really interested in the integrity of our Justice system and holding those responsible for undermining that integrity accountable.

    • emptywheel says:

      We don’t know.

      If it’s a restatement of his previous stance, it’s that Rove doesn’t have to show up to tsetify, though says nothing about the content of what Rove woudl say being protected.

      If it’s what I’m calling garden variety EP, Bush would be making a claim for why the content Rove has been asked about pertains to something that only the President has jurisdiction over AND making a case that it should be protected–for example–so Presidents can be sure they get good advice on things like USAs.

      I don’t THINK he’ll do the latter for two reasons. 1) because given all teh TV time Rove has done on tihs, it would seriously diminish EP, and 2) because Bush doesn’t want to get close to the Siegelman stuff at all.

      • jdmckay says:

        I don’t THINK he’ll do the latter for two reasons. 1) because given all teh TV time Rove has done on tihs, it would seriously diminish EP, and 2) because Bush doesn’t want to get close to the Siegelman stuff at all.

        an observation: amongst quick electronic keyboard typists, it’s my observation that the *e* in the seems to move a slot towards the front-of-the-line w/surprising frequency. In fact, I do it all teh time myself!!!

        Ok, re. #1: Well, I dun’o… he was on plenty of airwaves prior and that didn’t seem to matter.

        re. #2: Well, given all I’ve read from Horton and others, should Siegelman be pursued I suspect that affair (and a lot of others) will get close to W’ all on it’s own.

        And regarding both of ‘em: their history is, when facing being found-out, to proffer absurd arguments on anything. MSM/courts/repubs take ‘em seriously, then they run the gamut defending ‘em. When reaching conclusion, they just put up another one.

        VOY-LA!!!

        AFAIC that was entire purpose of W’s creating DHS: it pre-occupied congress for 2 years just as serious questions were coming up about W’s (mis-)use of intel justifying Iraq invasion (no WMD).

        • bobschacht says:

          In response to emptywheel @ 9 (show text)

          I don’t THINK he’ll do the latter for two reasons. 1) because given all teh TV time Rove has done on tihs, it would seriously diminish EP, and 2) because Bush doesn’t want to get close to the Siegelman stuff at all.

          an observation: amongst quick electronic keyboard typists, it’s my observation that the *e* in the seems to move a slot towards the front-of-the-line w/surprising frequency. In fact, I do it all teh time myself!!!

          You must be new around here, where the spelling “teh” for “the” is a bit of snark. I’m not sure about the origin, but it is often not a typo.

          Bob in HI

    • MarkH says:

      If Bush is issuing a letter granting immunity is he stating that Rove was operating on his behalf in both the USA firings and the Seligman case?

      Bushies wanted to say Congress had NO oversight powers. Of course, that’s awfully convenient when your purpose is to do vile awful criminal things and you don’t want Congress to see it.

      But, if the primary immunity from having to testify is based on the President’s need to have his adviser available to him, then Bush has nothing, since Rove isn’t his adviser any more and Bush isn’t President any more.

      If the immunity from having to testify is based on the need for a President to have private advisers and private discussion or debate in the White House, then it would make sense for the next president to continue the immunity.

      Where it’s murky is what Bush might be asking for or offering Rove. Since Rove never showed up to testify (that I recall) he never actually claimed anything before Congress. He needs to actually go before Congress and claim immunity based on something or other. Then it can be hashed out.

  4. PJEvans says:

    Okay – I’m a bit computer-challenged at the moment; the system disk on my home machine is seriously ill, so I can only access from work. (Continuous reboot at the ‘Welcome’ screen. Oy.)

    I hope that the new administration has anough sense to not assert privilege for Karl. But they seem to be clueless about dealing with GOoPers.

  5. scribe says:

    OK. Time for the lawyer to speak.

    “Settled law”. Let’s look at this.

    The term people use called “settled law” and the way people use it is kind of dangerous.

    In short, “Settled law” is created by a decision by an appellate court in which the appellate court decides that the law is, or is not, a certain proposition. That is because “settled law” is only found (if you want to follow one school of legal theory) or created (if you want to follow a different one) in the crucible of an appellate court deciding whether or not a trial court erred in deciding what the law is.

    The decision out of Bates’ court, while learned, scholarly, and instructive (and long) is nonetheless the decision of a trial court. That decision is bound inextricably to the facts of the particular case. If another case were to come along in which different facts were presented, then Bates or any other judge could decide it entirely differently. Moreover, other trial courts are not required to give any binding precedential effect to Bates’ decision. That is a function of the hierarchical way our courts are structured.

    This is not to say that Bates’ decision is not entitled to some level of deference or value as precedent. It is: the decision of a trial court in an area where appellate courts have not spoken is entitled to considerable weight. If it’s the only precedent, a court considering a new case in which the issues are similar would be remiss if it did not consider it. And, many times, an appellate court will say “we have read the opinion of the trial court and the trial judge has gotten it exactly correct.” But they don’t have to. In any event, the decision of a trial court would be considered “instructive”, not “binding”. “Instructive” guides and pushes a judge in a particular direction but does not require him to go there. “Binding” requires him to go there regardless of his agreement or lack thereof with the precedent.

    “Settled law” comes out of a body of precedent in which the cases all (or mostly all) point the same way. This is particularly true where the trend in the cases all point in the same direction. I recently did a survey of a relatively-arcane but nonetheless important question of law. It required me to read 40 or 50 opinions and digest them into a statement of “what the law is now” on that point, seeing as how a particular state’s highest court had issued a couple opinions since the last time anyone had surveyed the law on that point. When I sat down to write, I was able to encapsulate the state of the law in sentences that read something like “I’ve read all 40 plus opinions that have come out in the last couple years and in none of them has your side of the case won. This is because the standard set by the Supreme Court in [two opinions’ names] is so difficult that only cases exactly like [the two opinions] will be able to succeed.” That definitive and clear trend lays out what the law is and is an expression of “Settled law”.

    There is little or no “Settled law” in that sense, in Rove’s case or in these privilege cases, in large part because they are so infrequently litigated.

    OK? The Bates opinion is important, but it is not determinative.

      • scribe says:

        Bates’ current decision is binding as to the present case only.
        An appeals court decision is a crapshoot – we saw them take the appeal and monkey with the case so as to try to extricate Rover and Harriet, prior to the inauguration.
        Seeing as how all Congressional subpoena cases come through the D.C. Courts, I would be happy with the trial court decision and I would go with the admin dismissing the appeal.

        Rover might be inclined to try to take it up, but might not like the results.

        This sort of situation highlights a paradox OBama finds himself in with, for example, the al-Marri case currently going to the S.Ct. That’s the one with the legal resident who was arrested then shipped over to military detention. It’s the legal resident analog to Padilla’s case, which was about indefinite military detention of a citizen.

        You’ll remember, Padilla’s detention was upheld by the 4th Circuit and he appealed to the S.Ct. They took the case and then the government got it dismissed on mootness grounds when they indicted Padilla in Miami, and later convicted him in a civil trial. That was perhaps the best result for the government, because the 4th Circuit’s decision saying a President can snatch you off the street and hold you incommunicado in a military prison without charge still stands as “good law” – i.e., precedent which has to be obeyed. It was never reversed by the Supreme Court.

        So, now, along comes al-Marri and argues “you can’t do that” as to him. The government says: “yes, we can. Padilla.” The 4th Circuit says, “Umm, yup. Padilla. Binding precedent out of this circuit. The government can.”

        al-Marri appeals and the Supreme Court takes the case. If Obama scotches the al-Marri appeal from the government side – say, by saying “al-Marri’s right. Open the doors and let him out.” – Padilla still stands as governing precedent. And the next Bush can use it.

        On the other hand, the Court should want to take the case, if only to prevent some present or future president from deciding he needs to fix a problem with some troublesome judges who won’t rule his way by calling them terrorists and locking them in a brig forever.

        But the Supreme Court tossing both the al-Marri and Padilla opinions and saying “government, you can’t do that.” is not as foregone a conclusion as we might like to think. Remember: Rasul, Hamdan, Boumedienne and the rest of these detainee cases have broken down 5-4. Over and over. There is no guarantee they won’t break that way in the government’s favor in al-Marri.

        The best thing the government could do to preserve individual liberties would be to file briefs saying positions so extreme even a wingnut might be embarrassed by them and shame the Court into ruling against the government. But even that might not work.

        So, are you starting to see the multidimensional Vulcan chess problems posed by “should I appeal?”

        • freepatriot says:

          Padilla’s detention was upheld by the 4th Circuit and he appealed to the S.Ct. They took the case and then the government got it dismissed on mootness grounds when they indicted Padilla in Miami, and later convicted him in a civil trial. That was perhaps the best result for the government, because the 4th Circuit’s decision saying a President can snatch you off the street and hold you incommunicado in a military prison without charge still stands as “good law” – i.e., precedent which has to be obeyed. It was never reversed by the Supreme Court.

          so the fact that the case was made moot doesn’t affect the appelate rulings in the case ???

          common sense would say if the case wasn’t resolved the appelate rulings should be moot too

  6. tekel says:

    The ambiguity about the assertion of “privilege” is all the more reason to arrest Rove now. This fight can happen just as well with him behind bars as it can with him out and about- with the important distinction that once he’s locked up, it will be much easier to make sure that he shows up for his date with Conyers next week.

    He’s been implicated in a conspiracy to commit treason, he’s a clear flight risk, and he’s already shown his disrespect for the power of the courts. Put his ass in jail, for his own “protection” if for no other reason.

    • BoxTurtle says:

      The problem is that Rove has not been charged with any crime. And you’d have real trouble finding enough unchallenged probable cause out there to generate an indictment.

      BushCo is gone, we don’t just arrest people becaue we don’t like them anymore. Rejoyce or mourn, as ye will.

      Personally, I’d get a big kick out of Rove fleeing the country. I like watching wingnut heads explode.

      Boxturtle (My bet is still that Rove will never see the inside of a jail cell)

    • WarOnWarOff says:

      Yes, but:

      Speaking of judgment, Holder also has resolved — to Specter’s satisfaction, at least — the GOP demand that he promise not to prosecute Bush administration intelligence officials who engaged in brutal interrogations at Guantanamo Bay and elsewhere.

        • WarOnWarOff says:

          Understood, but in order to catch the bigger fish seems that it would be helpful to put a fire under the smaller ones…

        • emptywheel says:

          We don’t need them, it seems to me. We’ve got Dick Cheney admitting we torture on TV. We’ve got Susan Crawford admitting we torture. We’ve got Levin’s report.

        • Hugh says:

          Yes, I would like to see both Addington and Yoo back up before Congress with no privilege. It seems like a perfect perjury and/or obstruction trap and could not happen to two more deserving guys.

        • Petrocelli says:

          Sir, well Sir, I am frankly hurt, Sir that you would impugn my character Sir and that you think Sir, that I would attempt to mislead the President, Sir or any of you Sir !

        • azportsider says:

          I thought Yoo’s testimony was more insulting. Addington’s very existence is an insult to the human race.

        • Leen says:

          Still like John Dean’s points quite a while back
          Refocusing the Impeachment Movement on Administration Officials Below the President and Vice-President:
          Why Not Have A Realistic Debate, with Charges that Could Actually Result in Convictions?
          By JOHN W. DEAN
          http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20061215.html

          would really like to witness some of these thugs taken out so that they cannot roll back into a future administration.

  7. perris says:

    I really don’t care if executive priviledge exists, that can be determined at at later date

    I want rove and meyers to appear and make their claim for the priviledge, they cannot defy subpeona, they must appear or go to jail

  8. Hugh says:

    If Obama doesn’t back Bush over Rove, I don’t see how Rove can assert a privilege of an ex-President and expect anyone to respect it. All Obama has to invoke is national interest and it is done.

  9. Gitcheegumee says:

    This brings to mind a subpoena issued by Conyers,earlier on another occasion,involving Rove re: Rove’s protege’ and voter caging. The DOJ firings played into this,also if memory serves correctly.

    Here’s a couple of links.

    Incidentally, Griffin si considering running against Blanche Lincoln of Arkansas IF she votes in FAVOR of EFCA!_____________________________

    Think Progress » Rove-protege Tim Griffin considering running for … Dec 15, 2008 … griffin.jpg In a message on his Twitter account today, former Arkansas U.S. attorney and Karl Rove-protege Tim Griffin hinted that he is …
    thinkprogress.org/2008/12/15/tim-griffin-senate/ – 61k – Cached – Similar pages

    Greg Palast » US Attorney Resigns Following Conyers’ Request for … Jun 1, 2007 … Tim Griffin, formerly right hand man to Karl Rove, resigned Thursday as US Attorney for Arkansas hours after BBC Television ‘Newsnight’ …
    http://www.gregpalast.com/rove-pick-f…..ng-conyers’-request-for-bbc-documents/ – 37k – Cached – Similar pages

    Tim Griffin – SourceWatch J. Timothy (Tim) Griffin, a former U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Arkansas who resigned effective June 1, 2007 [1], was named in December 2006 to …
    http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Tim_Griffin – 54k – Cached – Similar pages

  10. JohnLopresti says:

    One worry I harbor is Bush’s initiatives’ in absentia freezing DoJ to his lameduckers until congress goes on recess, then Obama can appoint replacements to get government functioning again. Miers got a letter, Rove mimeo of same, I expect lots of folks mimeos, Rumsfeld…not pardons, mimeos of defiant recalcitrance. Obama’s appointments have seemed constructive, rather than vengeful; consider, OT, civil div. nominee. Govt is going to lurch forward irrespective of Bush’ having generated mimeographed gag orders to his former administration’s membership. His dispersing organization should know the ruse is to be short lived, they practised it when they controlled both chambers of congress. Recess appointments.

  11. reader says:

    I am ABSOLUTELY sure that Obama, Holder, and company are quite smart enough to get around any ”resolution” provided to Specter … and Specter can be counted on to whine but no more if Holder finds it necessary to cross him, ANYWAY.

    • Petrocelli says:

      Haggis is the Repub twin of Reid … what he speaks out against is most likely what he’s going to vote for.

  12. eCAHNomics says:

    At WH presser spokesman said that WH counsel is studying the Rove issue and has nothing to offer until WH counsel speaks.

  13. Gitcheegumee says:

    Leen @ 28

    WHY was another Bush installed after the BCCI and S&L debacle involving Poppy back in the ’80’s?

    That meltdown was merely a dress rehearsal,by comparison ,to the looting of this country’s Treasury now,imho.

  14. DuttonPeabody says:

    OT –
    A health care story –

    My friend Tony is an artist who nearly lost the tip of two of his fingers a few months back. Like most of the self employed in this country, he had no health insurance. To save the the tip of one, cost $14,000, the bill was turned over to a collection agency , and Tony worked out a payment plan.

    In order to do this, he began making the things he does best, as soon as he could get back to work. Last week I posted his efforts here, and at several other places I visit. I learned yesterday that someone at Firedoglake passed the link along, and as a result , Tony had the best price yet for one his auctions. It brought in roughly half of what his monthly payment is. He’s having these auctions once a week now, here’s the latest :

    “Electric Flame” Xenon Tube on Marble and Wood Base
    http://cgi.ebay.com/Electric-F…..=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318

    I will continue to pimp his work until the bill gets paid.

    I thank on behalf of my friend Tony, who ever you are.

  15. reader says:

    is it AI? EP? or just BS? tee hee.

    the idea that Obama is going to protect Rove in order to protect Obama’s powers is just nuts. i don’t see Obama going that way: not based on what he’s done so far. as for fears of future requirements … it’s like the blackberry: Obama understands that everything he does and say can be subject to broadcast on CNN and those are the terms under which he signed up. i think he values the constitution over the powers. as for needing these powers as tools ~ he’s got plenty of powers and the smarts to figure out how to use them.

    100 days? hey, how about just the first 10?

    as for Luskin’s threatening attempt to pit a former president against a current president to get support for his guy … apparently he didn’t get the memo: Obama is nobody’s patsy. Obama won’t play that game in order to keep powers for himself. but Luskin seems to think he will.

  16. Gitcheegumee says:

    Lopresi @ 29

    Yes,it is ironic that paperwork will be presented to substantiate defensive positions.

    However, no paperwork available re” Gitmo detainees .

    Not even files to PROVE that there actually WAS ANY information received from the prisoners at GITMO.

    What’s wrong with this picture?

    • rwcole says:

      Maybe Obama thinks that the press will take pity on him- he seems a little pitiful. He’s not gonna WOW em with good looks and personality.

    • Hugh says:

      Where did Obama find Gibbs. Watching his presser. He’s a pretty weak press secy.

      All press secretaries have to be lobotomized before taking the position. It’s a rule, well except for Dana Perino because one wasn’t necessary.

        • Petrocelli says:

          Prolly took a page or chapter out of BO’s Playbook … whenever he disagrees, he stutters and pauses a lot before stating a contradiction. It makes one appear to be non- combative.

    • Petrocelli says:

      I thought the opposite … that he is quite good at appearing non- offensive(are we done with Pink ties yet ?) and saying exactly what he wants without “hurtin’ anyone’s feelings”.

        • rwcole says:

          Gibbs is the guy that MSNBC made famous by reporting that he couldn’t find his way into the White House on the first day? If he ropadoping- he’s damned good at it.

        • Petrocelli says:

          Most of the guys on BO’s team sound like that Sunday Morning Evangelist, who whispers his words and sounds so quiet and unassuming while trying to make you believe a ton of bullsh*t. He and his wife appear on Larry King from time to time. Of course, he’s quite rich from this approach, so it must be successful.

        • watercarrier4diogenes says:

          If you mean Ted Haggard, Larry’s got him on again tonight, with wife AND son. WHY!!!!!?????!!!!!!?

    • jdmckay says:

      Sorry to say I agree.

      But then, that presser’s topic (TARP, “stimulus” particulars etc.) seems remarkably uncertain and in flux, so what’s a Prez Press Sec to do?

  17. reader says:

    DuttonPeabody @ 34: that’s terrific & very neat. i hope the ”bill” gets retired with great haste!

  18. rwcole says:

    I’m not sure that I understand how this works- but it would seem that the person whose executive privelege is being litigated is Bush- not Obama. I don’t really see what Obama has in the deal- other than it will be his AG who will prosecute if necessary

    By the way, why should this have to wait for Holder? There is an acting AG isn’t there?

    • dakine01 says:

      There is an acting AG isn’t there?

      Yes but it is a BushCo holdover whom I assume is quite willing to continue the stalling and cover-ups.

  19. MNgranny says:

    I wonder if Arlen Specter’s turnaround about supporting eric Holder for AG (I read that they wanted promises of no prosecution) is related to the new subpoena. Also wonder if they feel they can blow off everyone since Obama/Holder could have promised (maybe) not to prosecute.

    IMO these happenings are somehow tied together. But maybe no.

  20. LabDancer says:

    Color me way beyond skeptical.

    First: I thought we determined about, oh, 3 years ago at least, that Luskin was a weasel?

    Remember the “Fitz gave us a clean slate” letter? Never saw that one either.

    Second: Am I still mistaking what protections were raised when for whom – or else how can Luskin say with a straight face that ‘Bush issued a “renewal” of something that was never issued in the first place? Bush, or Fielding or someone him, could certainly, provide a letter than effectively repeats the ‘protection’ of the first letter – that bogus immunity claim Judge Bates struggled with [not!]. But since Bush never asserted privilege in the first place, for a lawyer – for lawyer LUSKIN – who knows the difference – to ‘assert’ he did, and for that assertion to NOT be in a quotation – you can smell the fish rot all this far away from Denmark.

    So why not this sort of Friendly letter to Luskin?

    Dear Mr. Luskin: You, of course, have our previous correspondence on what appears to be, substantially or in its essential parts touching on or near to the same subject matter, which said prior correspondence clearly asserts a continuing interest in the said subject matter, together with all appropriate confidentiality and variations and iterations thereof and thereon. We note the existence of arguably analogous proceedings, the outcome of which, if outcome there might possibly truly be said to have been considering all the circumstances [including in particular that there was still outstanding and unresolved, at the time of the new president being sworn, and even onto today, an appeal taken out and filed and never ruled upon from the sole lowest level opinion of first impression from the motions court], which we assert fall well short of those being optimally applicable to the separate, distinct facts and conceptualizations which bear on your client’s circumstances, insofar as actions, initiatives and statements emanating from him might be said to express directly or indirectly the ‘will’ of the chief officer of the executive branch. As well, we note the author of said opinion plainly treats the nature of the interest asserted in those other cases as being somehow ‘greater than’ any particular confidentiality and/or privilege interest, separately or cumulatively, thus arguably [as we would expect be urged] incorporating all inferior such interests, at the very least by implication. We are sure this serves to clarify any uncertainties or concerns on the part of your client. Have a nice day.

  21. reader says:

    yeah, I’m likin’ Gibbs too: it’s a very specialized job and he seems very friendly while doing an excellent job giving the information that is appropriate and wink-winking with the reporters when he knows answering their question could get him into trouble. it’s not always wrong not to answer a question. it’s only wrong to never answer the questions … well, depending on the question.

    • Petrocelli says:

      Yes, he’s trying to be a departure from the combative and arrogant image of Tony Snow while accomplishing the same thing.

      • smartlady says:

        And don’t forget his spectacular take down of Hannity during the campaign. I know there is youtube.

  22. Gitcheegumee says:

    I was surprised tha Bush didn’t pardon Abramoff, in one way.

    The Abramoff investigations continue to net guilty pleas -as recently as last month.VAULTS of emails and faxes the Feds are sitting on !

    Dengre at daily kos did an in depth ,superior piece earlier this month updating the latest trials and pleas re; Abramoff and where the trail leads.

    I agree with a poster upthread, Start at the edges and work your way in.

    There are many roads to Rome,I mean Rove.

    Can’t you hear the chorus singing,already?

  23. NorskeFlamethrower says:

    AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

    Citizen emptywheel and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:

    Thanks for the post but if we get ta see that fascist pig before the House Judiciary Committee I ain’t holdin’ my breath that ANY of the poor souls will be able ta lay glove on the bastard. With the exception of Conyers and Representative Johnson (Alabama, I think) it doesn’t seem that there are any Democrats on the Judiciary Committee that have the chops ta cross examine a sleepin tree toad…the Senate Judiacairy is another matter. Boy would I like ta see that fat tub a goo stuck on Whithouse’s hook.

    KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, WE STARTIN ALL OVER FROM SCRATCH HERE!!

  24. jonL says:

    Who cares what Specter got Holder to agree to. Didn’t Mukasey agree to certain things and then fail on them miserably. I mean is it written somewhere where Specter gets Holder to agree to something and this is the law of the land. Did we not learn anything from the repugs? I will do what I please not as I say. I think Obama said it very succintly, “I won”

  25. MaryCh says:

    Late to the party — why did it take all the way to comment 65 to see ‘frogmarched’?

    I know President Obama will probably want to guard the power of the presidency — I’ve read enough many articles (by non-Villagers, thanks) arguing the point well to be persuaded. But President Obama doesn’t Dick Cheney’s or Dick Nixon’s view of the power of the executive, and unless he’s hiding an agenda worthy of the wackiest righty blogs, it’s hard to imagine him wanting practices and precedents like absolute immunity to be his high water mark.

    The alternative discussion point, as opposed to the legal analysis (which I value a lot), is mindreading President Obama — how much power does he want to assert/ want the presidency to have as he leaves office?

    • Petrocelli says:

      That’s the first time I saw Gibbs, so comparing that to this new avatar as Press Secretary is why I think his act is just that.

  26. leftdcin72 says:

    It seems that whatever was written for Bush which Bush signed that Bush probably lacked the capacity to understand what he was signing and in addition there are probably ambiguities in the subject letter or arguably ambiguities. Following principles of contract law Bush should be subject to a subpoena to explain the ambiguities and to testify as to how the letter was prepared and whether he understood what he was signing. Seriously.

  27. AlbertFall says:

    Anytime I read about Rove and the general Republican obstructionism, I suddenly develop a visceral understanding of why they love torture and extraordinary rendition.

    My immediate take is, Fuck him. Put him in a plane, waterboard him, and throw his fat ass out in the street in Tehran, naked with no credit cards, and if he makes his way back to the US and complains, just tell him, “I guess now you see the problem.”

    We’re better than that, but, at the first reaction level I’m not.

  28. Appleton says:

    Although the law governing executive privilege is unsettled, we do know two things. First, the privilege is qualified rather than absolute. Second, it cannot be used as a shield to prevent the disclosure of information related to criminal wrongdoing. I have no doubt that Mr. Rove can be compelled to appear and testify. Should he choose for any reason to assert his Fifth Amendment privilege, that is a different matter. The Congress can cross that bridge when it comes to it.

  29. Legion303 says:

    Given that GW’s tenuous argument for executive privilege was that he didn’t want his aides to be afraid to speak their minds to him, why is it even remotely relevant now? He’s not the president, and Rove isn’t advising him.

    Unless, you know, he was lying. And there’s no way he would ever do that.