Sanctimonious Joe in the Crossfire
If I had my way, Harry Reid would bounce Sanctimonious Joe out of the Democratic Party unceremoniously (after all, in matters having to do with Joe Lieberman, one is usually well-advised to follow Jane’s lead). But I wanted to explore some of the other tensions spelling doom for Joementum.
Generally, the press claims that the Republicans would be happy to have him. After all, they’ve lost 5 seats (at least) in two elections in a row, so by taking Holy Joe, they can pad their numbers and retain a little more power. Yet almost all those claims rely on this quote from John Ensign:
Republicans over the past weeks have made it clear they’d welcome Lieberman if he chooses to defect. "Joe Lieberman is certainly going to be a wild card," Senator John Ensign, a Nevada Republican, told MSNBC last week. "And it depends — you know, we welcome Joe. I think Joe’s a terrific guy with a lot of integrity and does what he believes."
Ensign, of course, was head of the NRSC this year–the guy tasked with ensuring electoral success for Republican Senate candidates. Things didn’t work out so well for Ensign in that role. So it is understandable that he’d want to downplay his own failure by adding Joe to the "R" column.
But hearing John Ensign say he’d welcome Joe with open arms is very different from hearing Mitch McConnell say the same thing. And for McConnell–who is now tasked with trying to prevent wholesale Democratic policy victories, having an occasionally liberal Senator from Connecticut on your team has some drawbacks. In recent years, Joementum has shown no taste for party discipline; he might be different under the Republicans, but if so, he will certainly lose re-election in 2012. McConnell is a damn good Minority Leader (unfortunately), but I suspect he is weighing seriously whether he wants to deal with the headache of Joe’s whining over the next several years.
And then there’s the matter of what the Republicans could offer Joe. As it is, they’re either going to have to beg the Democrats to expand the committees, or they’re going to have to take committee assignments away from some senators (for example, Tom Coburn will lose his membership in SJC unless they expand that committee). So does McConnell really want to add another senator to the list of those who need committee assignments? And, almost certainly, McConnell would think twice about giving Joe any kind of authority save on a committee dealing with foreign affairs, since on other issues Joe tends to side with Democrats. (Though, to be fair, there is space but not ranking membership on both the Armed Services Committee–which lost Dole and Warner and possibly Chambliss, with McCain as Ranking Member; and Homeland Security–which lost Sununu, Warner, Domenici, possibly Coleman, and possibly Stevens, with Collins as Ranking Member).
Mostly, though, McConnell knows the Republican Party is going to be conducting some real soul searching over the next several years. Now, perhaps he sees the wisdom of bolstering the moderate wing of the party (and the moderate senators–those who can make or break any filibuster–will be in a position of real power in this Senate). But it’s unclear whether the Republicans want to muddy the issues by inviting Sanctimonious Joe to participate in their infighting.
As Markos suggested, the safest place for Holy Joe in a Democratic senate might be in our own caucus–where we can keep and eye on him and where he would be unable to start petulant witch hunts into Obama’s actions. I suspect McConnell might decide Joe would be worth the risks and headache (in which case, be my guest, Senator McConnell!!).
One of the most interesting aspects of this puzzle is timing: Reid has given Lieberman two weeks. We probably will know the outcome of the Stevens election by then (though there’s still the question of what will happen to the felonious senator). But we may not know the outcome of the Coleman election, and we definitely won’t know the outcome of the Chambliss election before then. So to some degree, McConnell will have to make his offer to Joementum without knowing fully what kind of caucus he will have.
I have been passing Jane’s lead and the petition to friends and passing on to other sites. Apply pressure NOW. Write Reid too!
As Christy has said “to the phones” Senator Reid’s contact info
http://reid.senate.gov/contact/index.cfm
202-224-3542
800-SEN-REID (1-800-736-7343)
Let’s fill up his phone system. Take away Liebermann’s gavel and send him on his way.
Well, he won’t know how large it will be, but it certainly will be stinkier and whinier with Joe.
Nothing would be better than to see the Joementum as a rethug and bringing his brand of sanctimonious poison to them. McConnell is too smart for that though ( I hate typing that ) But on consideration the back of the hand that Reid administered by offering a minor subcommittee chair was pretty nice. Those are the kind of things they give freshman they want to groom. But for a senior guy its kind of like being a middle manager, with no one to manage, and then being asked for status reports. Kind of a nice hint to get a new job and move on.
I think the timing speaks to the likelihood where we will end up.
If Reid thought Joe would make 60, then he would have kept the chairmanship.
If McConnell thinks 2010 can bring enough seats where Lieberman will get them to 51, he may make room to bring him over. I think it’s pretty clear Lieberman will require some big concession to cross over, and equally clear that if he doesn’t go he will be punished and is doomed in 2012 regardless.
I don’t know. We’re going to have the same challenges avoiding or breaking filibusters in any case. 60 is really just a mental barrier, not a real one, and having Joe OUTSIDE of the caucus but having enforced party discipline (pending any kind of discipline for Inouye which is probably NOT forthcoming, of course) might be better than 60 without party discipline.
I agree. While it would be great PR to have a caucus of 60, on a practical level, it doesn’t mean you have 60 reliable votes. With a caucus that doesn’t have strong party discipline, it’s an open question whether it’s better to have your least disciplined member inside (where he has more influence on other undisciplined members) or outside (where he’s more likely to vote against you out of spite.)
Well, I’m more worried about Ben Nelson and Mary Landrieu, frankly, but if they know they will be spanked, they may learn to behave.
Agree completely.
Thanks eman.
digg
Meant to write thanks ew.
Well, I think Reid’s message was probably very clear. He has the votes to take away the Chairmanship (Remember Government Ops comes with Subpoena Power into any part of the Executive Branch, should a chair want to use it,) and the medicine is simply that Joe take a little sub-committee, make no trouble for two years, sit in the back row, follow caucus discipline carefully, and then perhaps there might be a little more available as rehabilitation after 2010. So now Joe can see what the Republicans offer him, (not all that much), and my guess is he takes Reid’s offer he can’t refuse.
It isn’t just the gavel that Joe is giving up, it is probably a couple of dozen committee staff slots, and additional staff in his office. That is a major come down, and a significant punishment. But the Republicans can’t replace that easily — they have already lost 6 Senators (44 Staff each, plus committee staff slots) and they would hardly be in a position to protect any part of Joe’s Hill Empire.
My guess is Joe will stick with the caucus and take Reid’s medicine, and look for a way to get back in favor. Not finding it, he will retire in 2012.
have you checked the menu in 2010 ???
it don’t look good for the repuglitards
19 repuglitards and 15 Democrats on the menu
I think you hit it right on. And I think it’s a pretty good deal. If Joe’s smart, he’ll take it.
If I were in charge, I’d take ALL his slots and let him know he need not show up except for full senate votes. I’d tell him his bills would be blackholed by every chairman unless he had a real democrat as a sponsor. I’d also suggest he take his spare time to reconnect with his voters.
Boxturtle (Then I’d slam the door on his butt as he left)
OH – OH, this isn’t good.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27590270/
Obama seeking advice from ‘titans of industry’? With associated Clinton hangers on (Summers, Rubin) and academics of course. Aren’t these the clowns that got us in this mess? Where are the representatives of labor? Of environmentalists, communities and others?
This is not starting out well. Shortly, Joe will be the least of our problems.
Letting it moulder for a couple weeks is the way a minority thinks and is therefore coming at it ass-backwards.
Reid has the initiative here – not Joe. But Reid’s approaching things like he’s still in the minority by letting someone else make the first move. It is almost certain that the Dems will not have 60, in the first instance. In the second, there are any number of Republican senators up for re-election in 2010 coming from purplish-blue states (Iowa and Harkin come to mind immediately) who will need (or perceive a need, anyway) to vote with the Dems and allow the Dem program to go forward. All those clowns who were weeping and whining the last 8 years or so about up-or-down votes, the President being entitled to his appointments, the need to support the President’s program in a time of national crisis and so on and so forth can have nice little YouTubes of that shirt-rending put up all compare-and-contrast how he blocked the President You Voted For, Blue State, come 2010.
And they all know it.
So, Reid can break the inevitable Repub filibusters by peeling off those Blue Staters. And he doesn’t need Joe for that.
Thus, what Reid should be doing (and may have done, quietly, yesterday) is tell Joe “this is the way it’s going to be. No gavel for you. Get comfortable with it or get out.” The two weeks might be a face-saver, but given the way Joe’s acted, he’s getting more courtesy than he’s entitled to.
Scribe,
I believe you are referring to Grassley not Harkin. I would live to run Braley against him.
Love, not live. sorry.
Braley as a second termer has been very impressive in the House. Grassley does have an amazing network across the state and will be difficult to dislodge.
Uh, scribe, that’s precisely what Reid DID say, by all accounts.
I think the two weeks has everything to do with convincing Joe that the Republicans would probably treat him worse than he’ll get among friends. It’s about chastening him still more.
If Lieberman ends up a Republican, I think there’s an advantage to making him choose to jump, rather than pushing him. It deprives him of any sympathy or justification for his inevitable petty revenges. Kinda like how Scheunemann wasn’t fired, he just had his Blackberry and email access taken away.
you sure about that ???
cuz we could make a TON of money if we have a raffle for the right to be the person who gets to tell joezoe to FUCK OFF AND DIE
I know I’d buy a ticket for that
12 out of 19, by my count (I italicized the possible pickups I see)
yeah, yeah, I know, I’m starting a little earlier this year than I did in 2006
SIXTY SEVEN, MUTHERFUCKERS
When do the Senate and House start the lame duck session. Is it next week?
looks like Obama has the repuglitards shitting in their boots about 2012
the luddites think they figured out what hit them this year
still got no self awareness, but they figure that the innertubes did them in
now they’re gonna change that
does anybody else think they’re approaching this bass ackwards ???
it’s your POLICY, stupid
It’s the Law of the Schoolyard again. Hit one of the bullies hard once, even if you get hurt, just to let them know you got balls and will fight. Only then is there any respect. You have to set an example here.
And who better to set an example with than Joementum.
Agree. And Joe deserves to have his gavel taken away.
If Reid and Pelosi are concerned about the lack of faith that the American people have in congress they had better draw the line in the cement
I am retired now, but I spent several decades in the construction trade. In the best company I ever worked we had a saying that,”It really does not matter what you write on the contract paper, we can’t do good business with crooks or bums.” Kick Joe Lie to the other side of the senate aisle and get on with progressive programs. Forget and ignore his sorry ass. If he decides to do something bipartisan from the other side of the aisle we can accept it. Otherwise it is, “Joe who?”
Ill second that Sir.
Mitch McConnell is many things, but stupid isn’t one of them. Lieberman has already shown himself to be willing to stab pretty much anyone in the back if he thinks it’ll help him. Do you think there’s any doubt in McConnell’s mind about Joe’s loyalties? And does anyone think Joe will still be a “loyal Republican” when he comes up for re-election in 2012 in we-just-dumped-our-last-Republican-rep Connecticut? Please.
Joe’s a punk, but at this point I don’t see the harm in holding on to him. And on a short leash at that – At least for a while.
Senate leadership will have him where they want him, he’ll have to cow tow or get pitched and have no chance of re-election. Bottom line he’s on probation. If he doesn’t shape up, he’s out in a year, and fed to the dogs.
The harm is that the assignments are formulated and made for the start of the new congress term. You either do it now or risk it being a clusterfuck to try it later. You also owe the American people a chair of Homeland Security that will actually do the job. Plus you just have to kick someone’s ass somewhere. Joe’s a big ass; kick him NOW. Give him the option of what WO says in @29 or get the fuck out altogether.
I’m down with that. He should lose the Chaimanship, no doubt, but why not let hims stick around the caucus as long as he OBEYS.
What do I know, it just seems to me he’ll be a vote that the leadership can control provided they don’t cut him loose all together. Then pitch him our about a year before his next election. That would be a F#%$ing he’d never forget.
So ’splain to me why invitation only is the better way, what is the downside to letting him stay in the caucus so long as he tows the line??
Agreed with your first sentence completely. If he behaves sort of, he doesn’t have to be party line, just not be a total dick, then he doesn’t even need the final ratfucking.
Thanks Bmaz
“You also owe the American people a chair of Homeland Security that will actually do the job.”
Joe has got to go
Here’s what I think the Dem Senate Caucus should do:
Strip him of his chairmanship and his pre-2006 seniority. Let him attend caucus meetings on an invitation-only basis . He is, in effect, a Senator from an allied party (of one). If he doesn’t like it, let him switch to the Rep side of the fence. I don’t think the Republicans are going to take him. He was useful to them when Bush was in charge, but what do they get from him now? Obama’s in control of Iraq policy. Do you think Lieberman’s going to vote with the Republicans on health care? Economic stimulus? Oppose Obama’s judicial nominations?
Holy Rape Gurney Joe gambled on a McCain presidency, and he lost. Guess his buddy Johnny Drama convinced him to roll the dice.
I’m convinced that part of the reason Joey Short Ride was carrying McCain’s junk was cuz he saw a cabinet appointment in the new administration as his graceful way out of the bed he’s shit in for himself in the Senate.
His “constituency” just kicked Shays to the curb, didn’t they? Johnny Drama could have given Joey a “statesman” exit route, through the cabinet. Now, he’s going to have to face the disgrace he’s courted for years. I really, really hope that they find some way to rub his nose in the stain, and if they can do it publicly, even better.
I know they are all collegial and boys club, but damn. You don’t reward someone who has been stabbing you in the back – and letting him do this makes it that much harder to corral the true blue dogs you have to deal with.
One can always hope for a seaChange if Obama solidifies a working administration, more retirements from US Senate than Lieberman only. In CT, Rell is a Republican governor elected last year, Reid may want to offer Joe just enough to make it easy for Lieberman to opt to retire with the wave of approaching retirements, incrementally, at his term’s end, rather than giving Rell a chance to replace Lieberman with someone even further out of tune with CT moderates; i.e., Reid as preferring to work with someone actually sent by voters instead of by a governor’s anointing. Progress with stabilizing global economy, and providing clear new initiative in security engendering policies with some prospective permanence are part of the fabric which will ease CT voters’ worries and liberalize the outcome of an election in CT. The presidency is a political branch, perhaps well situated to help oversee a rejuvenation and reinvigoration of the legislature. Structural things Addington did are going to take a while to repair enduringly.
we should just appoint joezoe to be an ambassador to some shithole, and then cut him loose in six months or so
don’t think of it as a perk, joezoe
think of it as euthenasia
Not Canada! Please, not that! Nooooo …
never considered that …
now I’m thinkin joezoe could be an asset in trade negotiations
give us what we want, or you guys get joezoe tortureman as ambassador
and if that doesn’t work, we could threaten to let dead eye dick loose in their country with a hunting rifle and diplomatic immunity …
Joe’s win in 2006 in the General Election depended on his ability to keep the black vote in Bridgeport and New Haven, which is Democratic, and also get the Republican Vote that crossed over from the endorsed Schleisenger.
I have real strong doubts whether Joe would ever get that black vote back given what he had to say about Obama in this election. I think he burned all his bridges. I believe CT has something like 15-20% black vote that is almost entirely Democratic. And in 2012 Obama would be on the ballot for re-election, and you can well imagine that Democrats in CT would remind voters about Joe’s behavior in 2008 vis a vis Obama.
If Lamont runs again, I would suggest he work on his connections with the CT black community between now and then so that it is very easy to bring them onboard in 2012. My understanding is he did not get this vote in 2006.
But I don’t think Joe will run in 2012. Time to retire.
Will the Senate do much (if any) business between now and January?
I ask because I’ve come to suspect that Reid wants to drag out his negotiations with Lieberman so that Lieberman doesn’t “defect” right now, which would reverse control of the Senate. I say this not because I think Reid cares very much about control of the Senate for the next two months. Rather, I see Reid as worried that a temporary reversal of control would open the door to a serious challenge of his leadership position.
I don’t think anyone trusts him, except perhaps Graham and McCain. He’s probably been a double agent and everyone knows it.
Sorry, late to this thread. I believe you mean “Crosshairs,” not “Crossfire” in the title.
Emptywheel:
That is curious. What’s the rush?
It seems like it would have been best all around to leave Joe hanging until January. Gives Joe anxiety, which he deserves, and give both Reid and McConnell time to see what happens with the outstanding races.
So why demand an answer now? Is it just to have it resolved before the lame duck session ends?
.