What Would Scott McClellan Say…
About Murray Waas’ latest, in which he reports that Karl Rove had several people claim he was not involved in potentially criminal behavior, even though he had been?
While a central focus for investigators apparently has been the role played by aides to Rove in the Griffin matter, some witnesses to the investigation told me that they have been asked specifically about Rove’s own personal efforts.
Two former senior Justice Department officials, former Deputy Attorney General Paul McNulty and principal Associate General William Moscella, have separately provided damaging information to the two internal investigative agencies.
Both, according to sources familiar with their still-confidential testimony, said they inadvertently gave misleading testimony to Congress about the firings of the U.S. attorneys because they were misled by Rove himself in addition to other White House figures.
In his March 6, 2007, testimony to Congress, Moscella contended that all but one U.S. attorney was fired because of issues related to their performance. When specifically asked if Rove played any role in the firings, he testified: "I don’t know that he played any role."
But one day before the congressional testimony, on March 5, 2007, McNulty and Moscella attended a strategy session at the White House in which they discussed Moscella’s testimony and how he should answer allegations that most of the U.S. attorneys were fired because of politics.
McNulty and Moscella told investigators that among the attendees were Rove and Sampson, then Gonzales’ chief of staff. Neither Rove nor Sampson, both men told investigators, told them anything about their own role in the firings even as they encouraged Moscella to say politics had nothing to do with it.
He didn’t have anything to do with outing a CIA spy … He didn’t have anything to do with placing his vote caging specialist in a big swing state … He didn’t know Jack Abramoff, either.
I mean, you’d think some enterprising Republican would start a 12-step program, "Republicans Who Have Vouched for Karl Based on His False Representations" Anonymous.
It’s a testament to their loyalty and discipline that given the overwhelming evidence that absolutely no one outside of the inner circle comes away better off, they are still willing to stick their necks out.
Oh, and he also didn’t have anything to do with political prosecutions that put Gov Siegelman behind bars in a federal penitentiary…? (NOT!)
I hope that at least a few of the people that K-k-k-karl has played for complete, vapid tools have their ‘come to Jesus’ epiphanies soon, and help put this walking douchebag is in a federal penitentiary for life.
This is the ‘Boy Genius’ the press lauded?!
Give me strength.
“This is the ‘Boy Genius’ the press lauded?!”
Isn’t it amazing how often great intelligence is used for nefarious purposes? If nothing else, I would like to see a very public lesson delivered — either through a public trial and conviction, or someone taking a tar bucket in hand with a bunch of feathers. There are obviously some very bright people involved in all of this, but it seems they have never learned humility. It is never too late to learn in my book.
Weasels have no great intelligence, but they are in fact, weasels!
Well, you know what they say, “you are only as sick as your secrets”. I wonder if that applies to governments. I think it’s plausible
When you live life on the up and up, within the frame work and structures of your value system, it greatly decreases the need for secrecy.
How about stocks and a spanking in front of one of the monuments in Washington?
Now, the problem with that penalty, seems to me, is that the culprit might enjoy it too much.
Learning humility by being put in the stocks, plus a public whuppin’? Doug Feith looks to me the type to enjoy that penalty a little too much (just was catching up over @ pogge & reading yr. Feith piece).
Of course, that’s always been Rude Pundit’s take on Karl Rove…
That was such a steal from EW, too. I started a Saturday night torture-blogging series, and now the thing has to be fed, so I’m turning into a terrible opportunist. Also, because I’m writing mainly for Canadians, I have to overexplain everything. It’s our government’s cynical stonewalling on Khadr that finally drove me to it — I feel we have to keep hammering away until Canadians understand how seriously criminal the whole situation is.
What is it going to take to bring Karl Rove and his ilk down? The man is guilty of so much, it seems — and he has done everything possible to destroy this country for the permanent Republican majority. Murray Waas is handing the case to the public on a platter… yet the wheels of justice grind ever so slowly.
As for what Scott McClellan would say…?
He’s already said a few very interesting things. Reference: ‘Rove, Karl: ‘permanent campaign’, pp 73 -78, What Happened: Inside the Bush White House and Washington’s Culture of Deception [Public Affairs, 2008]
At least McClellan showed some integrity by coming clean and trying to sort out what happened. Let’s hope others have the guts to follow his lead toward a saner, more balanced future.
The blinding incompetence of the unholy quartet Sampson, Taylor, Schlozman and Oprision gives me some hope that this generation of repub thugs will never see any public position again. They are so awful, older lawyers like McNulty and Moschella aren’t willing to protect them.
Answer: “Looks like I picked a good time to quit sniffing Gooper glue!”
I was tickled by the fact that Brad Berenson was
telling lieslaying down the smoke for Kyle Simpson.Of course, EW had already remarked on the curiousness of his representation:
I suppose it’s helpful if you’re already part of the conspiracy. Saves time in finding out what your client knows and did, plus it saves him all those billable hours. What a deal!
Murray is just whacking away on this and DOJ. Twice in a week he has gotten da stories! Where was the MSM? Snoozinnnnnng…….
I see that the crap continues: White House really, really doesn’t want its guys to testify
When do we get to start dreaming about Karl Rove and frog marching???
It seems so close….and yet so far.
It will be interesting to see if Mukasey has the guts to do
do a substantive investigation, and to do one, he needs to appoint a Special Counsel. My money is on “no” to both.
HaRAT Miers and Josh the Bolten filed a motion with Bates to delay their appearance before HJC to say “screw you we ain’t sayin’ notin’ ’bout notin’”
The subpoenas expire New Year’s Eve. Conyers has tried to apply Bates’ opinion to RNC email that they have stonewalled turning over.
And of course via FRAPs their lawyers can wait a full 90 days and on the 90th day file a motion for an extension on the D.C. Circuit appeal (60 days when the government is a party to file the appeal but an additional 30 days for either party to motion for an extension of the time table to begin the appeal filing time clock).
Is there a stay of the order in place now?
Not as yet. That’s what they want, and they can either move for Bates to grant a stay or move in DC CA for it.
They will certainly appeal as well and either party has 60 days to file an appeal when the gov. is a party, and also during that 60 days they have 30 more in which to ask for an extension of the time to file an appeal.
Obviously they want to run the clock as long as they can.
I would like to see the other investigation that is the subject of this thread get a Special Counsel appointed and get to Miers and Bolten that way through any number of issues but I have always been sure that the last thing Mukasey is ever going to do is appoint an SC on his remaining watch.
Murray is just whacking away on this and DOJ. Twice in a week he has gotten da stories! Where was the MSM? Snoozinnnnnng…….
déjà vu
OT – From THink Progress
I doubt if it was Feith who surfaced the letter. The letter came from Alawi, who handed it off to Con Coughlin of the Daily Telegraph, and Alawi was a long term CIA asset. Moreover the 5 million for Habbush was paid out of CIA funds in October, 2003. There is a record on that, including authorization for payment.
Philip Giraldi, I suspect, has been detailed to muddy the waters with this (disinformation) claim. Feith was never a covert operator, nor were any of the people who were associated with him. The people in the chain of command who got the cream paper from Tenet were all covert operations people. That’s who Suskin has on his tapes and who are associated with his documents.
If that is true then I would suspect Feith will not be very happy.
Sara, I am sensing you may have Suskin’s book already. I don’t have as much a doubt on the what happened as the how, the mechanism, of it. It has perplexed me that Cheney would run this play through the CIA, when he has always so mistrusted and disdained the Company. I fully agree about Feith, but you would think he would have had some sort of black teams available.
Maybe the ease with which the Niger forgeries were debunked, by multiple sources no less, caused him to do the limited kind of learning of which he might be capable, like “use better forgers next time.” I’ll be there are some good ones at CIA.
Also, there might have been some uncertainty whether simply to keep trying to smash the Agency, or to compromise it as much as possible.
“Sara, I am sensing you may have Suskin’s book already. I don’t have as much a doubt on the what happened as the how, the mechanism, of it. It has perplexed me that Cheney would run this play through the CIA, when he has always so mistrusted and disdained the Company. I fully agree about Feith, but you would think he would have had some sort of black teams available.”
Yea, just happened something I ordered came in at B&N on Tuesday, which gave me a second reason for heading out and buying myself some more books.
Stayed up till 4AM last night finishing the thing off, and re-reading a few portions.
The case is scattered through a book with a fascinating and eclectic cast of characters who have nothing to do with the Habbush Letter at all. No, the book is about an Afghani teen ager who came to the US as an exchange student, It is about a young Pakistani post BA Economics Student living in DC who got tackled by the Secret Service and arrested because Cheney’s caravan was leaving the gate of the WH as he was walking by on his way to work, and he decided to turn off his Ipod. (Fear was the Ipod was a trigger to blow up the Cheney Car.) — I kid you not. It is about his sister who went to the London School of Economics, and converted herself into a totally black covered Fundamentalist — and the argument they have back in Lahore at a family wedding. (Father is Police Chief of Lahore — has spent months in the FATA trying to root out Taliban. Uncle is one of the Supreme Court Judges who got canned by Musharraf). It is about what caused several CIA leading figures to retire and try to find a way to finally tell the truth — What they have in common is they found Suskind — otherwise they are all over the landscape. Suskind takes us with into the former head of British Intelligence Dearloff’s (of Downing Street Memo fame) digs at Cambridge University for a little truth telling, and a long reflection on British/American psychological and cultural similarities and differences. Suskind takes us into the State Department’s dealings with Bhutto over the past few years — her relationship with Condi, her non-relationship with Cheney, and Cheney’s refusal to make a critical call to Musharraf about Bhutto’s security. He takes us into Bhutto’s house during the last several weeks of her life. He clearly has Oval Office sources, because he has a few very guilty and pointed Bush conversations, all in quote marks.
That’s why I stayed up almost all night last night — I got into the darn thing.
Suskind’s focus in this book is much less with just the details of the Habbush letter, and the British pre-invasion development of him as an intelligence source, a source that pretty much proved that Saddam had no WMD, at which point Bush decided to cut him off as a source (oval office conversation included in the book), but Suskind is getting at something else. We train our spooks to take risks, to lie, to live lies, to adopt fake identities and all that, but behind all that is an assumption that it is being done for a higher moral purpose, such as the security of the country or in the interests of information that informs good policy making processes. Clearly that was not the mission of the Bush/Cheney administration — and even the most dim witted spook understands that now. They are adrift in a sense, but they are also coming to their senses, and they want to find a way to return politics and government to a higher moral plane, essentially to tell the raw truth about all this as the only process likely to lead to positive change.
I can’t think of anyone on this list who will not find this book a “stay up all night and finish it” experience. I need to do some re-reading and some cross referencing — maybe this weekend. We are getting hit by two or three of these a week these days, (publishers are making a fortune off me anyhow) and all of them link into each other in various ways. You wonder, for instance, whether the services of John Yoo were used to write a Legal Opinion that Cheney could order up a forgery that would be a direct violation of the CIA Charter, without criminal responsibility — just as torture memo’s were ordered up on demand — or perhaps having overlooked the need for such a memo back in 2003, perhaps a creamy piece of paper has been forwarded to Berkley asking for a pre-dated memo to the same end.
But the guy around whom the core of this book is built, Rolf Mowatt-Larssen, is the same guy who nailed Aldrich Ames and Robert Hanssen. He plays for keeps.
Thanks for that summary.
I can’t buy and read them all, but I’m off to the bookstore now for this one.
My thanks to those who decided to tell the truth.
Thanks so much for the capsule review, Sara!
For the lawyers out there: How, exactly is this a violation of the CIA’s charter?
I’ve always assumed that the CIA fed stories to non-U.S. papers when it served their purposes. Given the vast array of unpleasant things I know of the agency having done, this strikes me as relatively minor.
The part that I’m most interested in is not the CIA’s action, but that cream-colored letter. I have difficulty in believing that anyone in the WH or the OVP would commit such a request to paper; too good to be true, and all that.
Are we sure Richer and Maguire haven’t set Suskind up?
Sounds like a fabulous and riveting FDL Book Salon with you as host!
wow.
Or, as bmaz might say, ‘the worm has turned’.
So… guess I’ll be late at the bookshop tonight, because I recognize your name from comments through the years and this looks both riveting and important.
And FWIW, I’d sure rather the publishers make fortunes than have all that lucre entering the criminal, corrupt fools at Bear Stearns. Yeepers!
That the King’s Men are reduced to claiming that another agency other than the one accused is the one that did the forgeries at the request administration is really a sign of the moral collapse of this cabal.
Bush is reminding me of Ceaucescu in his waning days, jetting off to visit the Ayatollah just prior to his somewhat ignominious end.
Bush, international laughingstock, who’s so selfish that he wants to have his cake and eat it too, by tongue lashing China and then going to watch the Olympics.
The final anchor has come unmoored and the ship of state heads for the rocks.
-G
For the record, I am not implying anything beyond humiliation and shame for Bush in his waning days.
-G
Let me help you out with that then. I will not only imply, but actively recommend, that he be exorcised by the terms of the Constitution, and thereafter prosecuted to the fullest extent and maximum penalty of all applicable law, especially for war crimes. I, um, understand that there are some severe penalties; nevertheless, he should reap that which he has sown and suffer the same degree of compassion he has given others. It is time to set a precedent so that we don’t travel this road ever again.
Ah yes, I have long been enamored of the notion of the ‘possession’ of the DoJ; how deeply satisfying to think of it all finally resolving in ‘exorcism’.
Hear Hear.
Hmmm, I left a note for you on the last thread.
Amen!
(Oh, are amen comments allowed?)
Bob in HI
I believe that the ICC does not allow capital punishment — in my judgement, a good thing. Would the U.S. insist on setting its own penalties for war crimes if it were to undertake the prosecution itself?
Somewhat OT — I suspect this is going to be soon overtaken by the material that Ron Suskin broke this week in “The Way of the World.” He really has Cheney cold ordering the fabrication of the letter claiming Atta trained in Iraq and that Saddam had tried to buy Yellowcake, asking Habbush to, in exchange for the 5 million safe harbor and “keep quiet” money, write and pre-date the letter in question. Tonight Suskin is saying that Congressional Staff are already deep into it, hearings are planned, and tomorrow he will be publishing on his website transcripts of his interviews with Richter. Others will follow. He has everything on tape. He has perhaps a dozen witnesses to various parts of the CIA fabrication of the letter on Cheney’s and possibly Bush’s direct orders. He has that backed up with other witnesses from British Intelligence. (Would not be surprised if he doesn’t have a piece of Cream Paper right out of Cheney’s office and in his hand.) Moreover it is an easy crime to prosecute, total violation of the Charter of CIA which prohibits the use of the agency for domestic political or propaganda efforts — and the lies about Iraq’s (non) WMD’s and Atta’s (non)visit to Iraq for training were directed toward sustaining the lies that undergirded the invasion.
Bush can only be indicted after a successful impeachment and trial and conviction, but Cheney’s situation follows the Agnew precedent, and Agnew did face charges. Mukasey is going to be confronted with a clear felony, with a ton of witnesses and documentary materials that Cheney ordered a violation of the CIA charter, and whether he prosecutes or not — well that will be up to him, but it will not be a necessarily hard prosecutorial decision.
This is so much Bigger than whether people answer to subpoeneas, and so much easier for those who don’t follow complex issues to understand.
What intrigues is that Suskin got a whole lot of in-the-loop people to talk on the record, people on both sides of the pond. And with the WH trying to force Suskin’s witnesses to now lie — Suskin is up for publishing the transcripts, and handing off the tapes to a proper Congressional Committee that can in turn call in the witnesses, administer oaths, and establish the record. In fact you have a whole lot of people who want to take an oath and then spill the beans, and who are not subject to Executive Privilege. Suskin is shooting directly at the King.
Best kill the King then. I agree with most all of what you say. Provided, of course, that Suskin has the backup he unequivocally claims he possesses. He is not a rookie, and has the benefit of watching, and to some extent personally experiencing, the modalities and force of the counter-attack that will be run. He better have his backup stone cold where they cannot be flipped though. Again, I presume he understood this. I have thought for a while now, and you could feel it building, that the worm had turned with the spooks and they, at least a strong set of them anyway, were out to lay the wood to the malefactors that had undercut them for so long and so disdainfully. And I really believe that, for many of them, it may well be the disdain with which they were used as much or more than what they were used for (although there is certainly that).
The phrasing and framing is going to need to be stronger than merely placing it in terms of propaganda violations. It is propaganda violations as overt acts in a scheme, artifice and conspiracy to commit war crimes.
I’m hoping that this contextualizing was a large part of Suskind’s rationale for the book. In fact almost betting, since it’s represented as tracing the loss of any claim to moral aspiration that we might have had.
As this nightmare of a travesty of an administration winds down if any restoring forces in Washington are to be deployed, they’re going to have to be triggered either by sheer enormity —and I can only conceive of one or two things we haven’t already heard that, were they true and demonstrable, might top what we have, so put that to the side— or a convincing demonstration that because X, we no longer might be able to Y unless we deal with X, and therefore the objective of gaining power would be mooted.
Given the dull wits by which our opposition is lead I’m not wildly hopeful here either, but maybe hearing the voices on tape at last will stir up some of the great reservoirs of outrage that I do believe are present among us.
You said it better than I.
But I have the same odd sense.
And Suskind is no rookie.
But as for ‘narrative’, check out the Hardball interview tonight between Mike Barnacle and Ron Suskind. (Watching it, I keep wondering whether Barnacle has a teaching background.) In setting the stage for many of his questions, Barnacle offers timelines and context. It’s what any good instructor does second-nature. Nice to see.
Excellent synopsis and insight as always. I’ve been saying for some time now, that patriots in the intelligence services will step up and sink these guys … there is still time, if Congress grows a spine …
Yes, it does have that ‘end of the Gladiator’ sense about it; that time when the Praetorians begin to turn on the Emperor Caligula and simply let events take their course.
Something wicked this way comes.
We shall see whether our faith in the Rule of Law has been justified. Or whether we were only foolish dupes.
MadDogs, you are a wonder. What a perfect moment for THAT little reminderFromThePast. Wow.
It will be interesting to see who goes where with those several tapes that Suskind has said he has. It’s a shame the legislative branch can’t appoint a Special Counsel by voting to do so.
When is W scheduled to return to Washington? All this stuff is happening while he’s away, note.
Well, if you consider the models that were used in the watergate investigation, they effectively can. The downside is that it does not yield criminal prosecutions; but, as in Watergate, the case can be worked up so bulletproof that the prosecutions must follow.
If W and/or Dick really are in the crosshairs because of the Suskind stuff, then we are entering an extremely dangerous time. Especially when crossed with the increased threat level due to the Olympics and the conventions. Be watchful for anomalies of all kinds.
OT — Musharraf Faces Impeachment.
It’s a regular zeitgeist!
The Pakistan’s Peoples Part co-chair said,” His policies have weakened the Federation, and eroded trust of the nation in national institutions”
There; if the Pakistanis can do it, Americans can learn to do it.
Ah, but in Pakistan lawyers took to the streets demanding justice and enforcement of the Constitution. Here? Not so much. We have some great lawyers here and at The Lake, and some national guilds of lawyers have advocated impeachment, but it doesn’t seem like the same level of lawyerly activism as in Pakistan. Is that assessment correct?
Bob in HI
We don’t torture. Or maybe we do….
Lord.
Didn’t Arar report being kept for very long periods of his detention in a box or a space about the size of a coffin? I don’t recall whether he was standing or laid down, but it sounded like enough to make any case you wanted against his holders.
That was his cell for ten months; Arar called it a “grave”:
OT — Now AP sez “Musharraf allies warn impeachment could be messy”… but it looks like W is cool with letting them throw him under the bus:
These days it seems you’ve got to be circumstantial. Joe Conason plays along by pointing out that Allawi spent part of the week before he gave the UKTelegraph its breathless scoop on the Habbush “letter,” at CIA headquarters in Langley. According to a typically buried article of the time by Priest and Wright at the WAPost, what Allawi and teammate Nouri Bedran were doing there primarily was working out a joint intel program that was to be run in Iraq, you know, pretty much by CIA I reckon. This period, Dec. 2003, led to Allawi’s brief moment of political glory as agency-backed prime minister. How about them circumstances! More at Salon.
EW (now that I’m back on topic), does it look to you as though the only illegality the IG is able to pursue is the cover-up — the false and misleading statements to Congress, etc — or is there a way to investigate the Patriot Act fiddle as an offence in itself?
I remember especially Sara Taylor’s long and twisty testimonials to what a great guy Tim Griffin is. She, for one, sounded as though she was fully invested in that cause, so much so that I wondered … well, never mind. But it was obvious what she was trying to avoid admitting — that there were improper reasons for wanting Cummins out and Griffin in. How does that get proved, though? How does the illegal part of it get proved?
kark is nothing but a liar…the question is, is the mana pathological liar?
I am under the impression a pathological liar believes their lie once they tell it, I know as a fact rove knows he’s lying and knows he lied long afther he told the lie
OT Breaking – From Ron Suskind’s website:
No wonder Mr. Rove has repeatedly refused to testify under oath; that oath includes the pesky phrase “. . . the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth . . .”
Clearly, he’d have to leave his word-mincing at the door.
Hope his plan for “more time with the family” includes weekly visits from his wife and grown son across a glass panel.
Yawn,
Okay boys and girls what will be the result of all of this…
1. Mr. Conyers will hold another hearing!
2. Folks in the WH or once in the WH will give him the finger again.
3. Mr. Conyers will hold a hearing about that.
4. Repeat steps 1 thru 3 until January of 2008.
This stupidity is brought to you my Nancy Pelosi and other Democratic DINO’s. Remember, Nancy has said more or less that President Bush is an idiot. Yet she’s comfortable allowing an idiot to be in control of our nation’s security, the lives of our soldiers, our economic future, our Constitution, and what used to be called justice here in America. When you knowingly allow a moron to drive the school bus over the cliff, you’re equally culpable.
bmaz @ 36 and Bob @ 46
Let me help you out with that then. I will not only imply, but actively recommend, that he be exorcised by the terms of the Constitution, and thereafter prosecuted to the fullest extent and maximum penalty of all applicable law, especially for war crimes. I, um, understand that there are some severe penalties; nevertheless, he should reap that which he has sown and suffer the same degree of compassion he has given others. It is time to set a precedent so that we don’t travel this road ever again.
Above quote from bmaz @ 36
And to join Bob, I’m going to get ”all” religion too…Amen! Amen! Amen!
bmaz I wrote similar sentiments in the comments of one of EW’s posts about a week ago. Full enforcement of the law in order to set an example or abuse of power and the people will never end.
OT
Is anyone else have a problem with the toolbox? None of the icons function on my end. The link icon has never worked for me but now, none of them work.
Sorry bmaz, this problem with the tools on my end is why i could not quote you above.
EW,
Thank you for another great post.
Sara, thanks for the Suskin heads up.
If they have, then they’re taking themselves down in the process. Ron has tape, see the partial transcripts released today.