Make Bush Invoke Executive Privilege for Rove

Kagro X wrote a post stating that Karl Rove is "not honoring his subpoena" from House Judiciary Committee. That’s not quite an accurate statement, yet–it won’t be until Rove actually does not show up when he was subpoenaed to testify, on Thursday, July 10.

I raise the distinction because, thus far, Rove’s refusal to testify is based solely on his attorney Robert Luskin’s efforts to pretend that the executive privilege Bush invoked with regards to the US Attorney purge extends to questions of politicized prosecution.

As I have indicated to you in each of my letters, Mr. Rove does not assert any personal privileges in response to the subpoena. However, as a former Special Advisor to the President of the United States, he remains obligated to assert privileges held by the President. As you are, of course, well aware, the precise question that we have discussed at length in our correspondence–whether a former Senior Advisor to thet President is required to appear before a Committee of Congress to answer questions concerning the alleged politicization of the Department of Justice–is the subject of a lawsuit in the United States District Court for the District of Columbia.

Yet that invocation of executive privilege was very specific. It relied upon a Paul Clement opinion that very specifically refers to the "dismissal and replacement of U.S. Attorneys" and then goes on to claim that that deliberations about the hiring and firing of USAs "necessarily relate to the potential exercise by the President of an authority assigned to him alone." The claim is specious on its face–after all, Congress has specific authority in the Constitution to legislate the selection of inferior officers; they had passed and were considering passing laws pertaining to the selection of interim USAs; and therefore they had a clear and recognized legislative interest in, for example, whether Bush tried to appoint Tim Griffin using a PATRIOT appointment so as to avoid the Senate approval process. But putting aside Clement’s transparently false argument, everything else he argues is premised on the exclusivity of the hiring and firing authority to the President.

But prosecution of federal crimes is not exclusive to the President; it’s an issue that Congress has clear legislative authority over. So DOJ would have to make very different analysis to find that Rove didn’t have to testify about his role in politicized prosecutions.

Furthermore, the argument the White House used to exempt Harriet Miers from testifying was based on two conditions that may not apply in Rove’s case. First, Clement’s argument about whether Presidential advisors had to show up to testify before Congress–on which the White House based its executive privilege claim with Harriet Miers–bases its logic on a Presidential advisor’s participation in privileged communications related to deliberations on a Presidential decision.

On the other hand, the White House has very legitimate interests in protecting the confidentiality of this information because it would be very difficult, if not impossible, for current or former White House officials testifying about the disclosed communications to separate in their minds knowledge that is derived from the Department’s disclosures from knowledge that is derived from other privileged sources, such as internal White House communications.

And, the Stephen Bradbury memo claiming absolute immunity from testifying before Congress–on which the White House relied in telling Harriet Miers not to show up–specifies that an assistant to the President need not show up before Congress if she is subpoenaed about matters relating to her official duties.

Accordingly, we conclude that Ms. Miers is immune from compelled congressional testimony about matters, such as the U.S. Attorney resignations, that arose during her tenure as Counsel to the President and that relate to her official duties in that capacity, and therefore she is not required to appear in response to a subpoena to testify about such matters.

In other words, to make the argument that Rove doesn’t have to show up, Luskin should be arguing that:

  • Rove had privileged conversations about this matter–that is, with someone in the White House, as distinct from hacks in Alabama and the Public Integrity section of DOJ
  • Rove was acting in his formal capacity as Senior Advisor to the President and/or Deputy Chief of Staff for Policy
  • The subpoenaed testimony pertains exclusively to matters that happened during Rove’s tenure in the White House

Frankly, I don’t know what Rove would claim he was doing with regards to the Siegelman prosecutions. But even assuming he would testify to having had conversations about the prosecution, would he be willing to say his actions relating to it included some advice to the President, offered in his official duties as Advisor, and that all his actions occurred while he was at the White House? Unless he’s willing to claim that whatever involvement he had with the Siegelman case was part of his official duties, then he’s in a different situation than Miers.

In any case, Rove’s role in the Siegelman prosecution is distinct enough from Miers’ role in hiring and firing US Attorneys, that–it would seem–the White House would have to invoke executive privilege specifically in regards to this subpoena.

And I’m not alone in that belief. Some guy named Karl Rove has admitted as much. In an appearance with George Stephanopoulos, Karl Rove described the invocation of executive privilege for his Senate subpoena "a similar instance"–but then said that executive privilege would be invoked in this case soon. Probably.

Rove: Congress–the House Judiciary Committee wants to be able to call Presidential Aides on its whim up to testify, violating the separation of powers. Executive Privilege has been asserted by the White House in a similar instance in the Senate. It’ll be, probably be asserted very shortly in the House. Third, the White House has agreed–I’m not asserting any personal privilege, the White House has offered and my lawyer has offered several different ways, if the House wants to find out information about this, they can find out information about this and they’ve refused to avail themselves of those opportunities. [my emphasis]

Gosh, that was six whole weeks ago–certainly within most normal measures of "very shortly." But, as far as we know, the White House has not yet invoked executive privilege to prevent Rove from testifying on Thursday.

Has the White House or–more likely–DOJ gotten pickier about invoking executive privilege?

Attorney General Mukasey is certainly not above supporting Bush’s claims of executive privilege. He did so to prevent EPA from admitting that the White House–and Bush specifically–had ignored EPA’s counsel on ozone standards and an exemption for California under the Clean Air Act. While it’s fairly clear the Administration is invoking privilege to hide the fact that they’re not complying with the law (a case Oversight has yet to make directly), this instance is very narrowly tied to deliberative discussions Administrator Johnson had with the White House. Mukasey included a rough description of the privileged materials (though not, as is required, a log). And because OLC deemed and Mukasey agreed that these conversations directly pertained to deliberation, Mukasey supported the White House’s executive privilege claim.

Similarly, Mukasey nodded to executive privilege when DOJ told Oversight it couldn’t have copies of the Bush and Cheney interview reports–though Bush did not assert executive privilege directly and ultimately the DOJ refusal was couched in terms of concern over the Department’s ability to get voluntary cooperation from Presidents and Vice Presidents in the future.

We are not prepared to make the same accommodation for reports of interviews with the President and Vice President because the confidentiality interests relating to those documents are of a greater constitutional magnitude. The President and the Vice President are the two nationally elected constitutional officers under our Government. The President heads the Executive Branch and, as the Congress has by law recognized, the Vice President often advises and assists the President in the President’s performance of his executive duties. It is settled as a matter of constitutional law, reflected in court decisions, and congressional and Executive Branch practice, that the communications of the President and the Vice President with their staffs relating to official Executive Branch activities lie at the absolute core of executive privilege. The interview reports sought by the Committee deal directly with internal White House deliberations and communications relating to foreign policy and national security decisions faced by the President and his immediate advisers. Congressional access to those reports would intrude into one of the most sensitive and confidential areas of presidential decision-making.

This argument doesn’t make any sense on several levels. Nevertheless, once again DOJ was protecting only those conversations that related to conversations with the President and Vice President directly.

But then there’s the example of David Addington, who obviously didn’t want to testify before HJC about torture, but who did so anyway, all the while pathetically waving around the Bradbury statement that said aides didn’t have to appear before Congress, just as Rove is metaphorically doing right now. If a smart lawyer like David Addington didn’t consider the mere existence of the Bradbury memo sufficient exemption from showing up under subpoena, it’s not clear that a smart lawyer like Robert Luskin will conclude any differently.

Now, it’s possible that Bush will still get around to invoking executive privilege for Rove. After all, Bush did not do so for the EPA until the day Oversight had scheduled to vote on contempt. Conyers and Sanchez have already made clear that, if Rove doesn’t show on Thursday, they will consider contempt–though they don’t say they’re prepared to vote on contempt on Thursday.

We want to make clear that the subcommittee will convene as scheduled and expects Mr. Rove to appear, and that a refusal to appear in violation of the subpoena could subject Mr. Rove to contempt proceedings, including statutory contempt under federal law and proceedings under the inherent contempt authority of the House of Representatives,

So it may be we wouldn’t find out until Thursday or sometime later that Bush has or hasn’t invoked executive privilege. But there are several reasons why Bush and/or DOJ may be unwilling to invoke executive privilege in this case:

  • OPR is currently investigating the Siegelman prosecution, which means some of this may come out via other means
  • Some of the Siegelman back history pre-dates Rove’s tenure at the White House, so could not be covered by executive privilege in any case
  • Karl is alleged to have spoken to PIN directly, meaning there’s no executive deliberation involved
  • It would be a stretch to admit that ensuring the prosecution of prominent Democrats was included among Rove’s official duties–at least those Bush wants to admit to

Basically, I’m not convinced–particularly not with the Rezko/Kjellander/Fitzgerald allegations lurking in the background here–that the White House is prepared to say all of Karl’s interventions into ongoing prosecutions were part of his official business.

As of now, Bush has not invoked executive privilege–at least not as far as is publicly known. And if Rove’s a no show on Thursday without such protection, he’s in much greater danger of immediate prosecution for contempt.

Which is a point HJC needs to make crystal clear between now and Thursday. Rove, by his own admission, believes the executive privilege invoked WRT the USA purge is not adequate to excuse him from appearing on Thursday. Yet as of last week, Luskin still claimed he wouldn’t appear.

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  1. PJEvans says:

    Wasn’t Karl all over the talk shows (or at least some of them) talking about his part in this?
    Or was that a different scandal?

    There have been so many of these, I’m losing track of the players in each one.

  2. FormerFed says:

    Marcy, this whole thing about executive privilege is extremely frustrating. The Bushies are not going to give an inch unless forced to by Congress – probably through the ‘inherent’ path. I know the Congress has to wend its way through the hoops and wickets of the process, but it sure gets pathetic to watch.

    Is there any hope that if Obama gets in the WH, that things might change? Or will the Demos try and sweep it all under the rug in the cause of ‘working together’?

    • emptywheel says:

      See, but it MAY not get that far. Mukasey is a shill–but he may be unwilling not to extend EP beyond the realm of nonsense. For some reason, Addington testified, even though he must view it as an assault on the whole unitary executive principle. And Bush isn’t going to invoke EP without cover from Mukasey.

      • GeorgeSimian says:

        Mukasey hasn’t enforced any of these contempt charges, or the subpoenas yet, has he? All Rove has to do is not show up, let HJC put him in contempt and then watch as Mukasey sits on his ass and does nothing. Not exactly Executive Privilege, but whatever floats your boat.

        No one seems willing to push inherent contempt. I’ve never heard anyone in Congress bring that up. No one wants to push impeachment, which is mindboggling when you think that 60+% of people think Bush should be impeached. Congress usually goes with the flow. And no one in Congress wants to pressure the DOJ (or any other agency, like the EPA) to do it’s job by doing something like withholding funds. Why can’t this Congress get any leverage at all? Why do they insist on chipping away at their own power every chance they get?

        • emptywheel says:

          Actually, the passage I cite above–from Conyers’ response to Luskin’s latest–does mention inherent contempt.

          And the reason why Mukasey hasn’t enforced any contempt is because for all the instances where WH invoked Executive Privilege, THUS FAR, DOJ has written a memo supporting its invocation in that particular circumstance. Bush has only invokved EP once since Mukasey took over–for the EPA, which is a much clearer case of deliberative privilege (even though in the name of cover up) than the Rove thing.

          So that’s the point. If Mukasey is now picking and choosing when he’s willing to support EP, then it’s possible he won’t be here. As I said, Addington ended up testifying, against all his wishes. As did Yoo. So it’s possible Rove isn’t going to get his free hall pass.

        • readerOfTeaLeaves says:

          As I said, Addington ended up testifying, against all his wishes. As did Yoo. So it’s possible Rove isn’t going to get his free hall pass.

          The only factor that gives me any hope whatsoever about Mukasey is assuming that he still has that photo of Orwell on his wall and is playing a deeper game than any of us see. (I figure the odds at 5%, however.)

          But the logic driven by the fact that ‘Rove knows a **whole** lot of dirt on GWB’ leads me to conclude that Rove may well get his hall pass.

          And if he does show up…
          Ditto massacio at 14: will anyone ask decent questions, and will the format allow them to follow up before Rove can regroup?

      • FormerFed says:

        EW, sorry to take so long to respond – I went out to see Wall-E. It is a delightful movie and certainly not something I would chose to see. I read Rich’s op-ed in the NYT and decided to take a chance – glad I did.

        I hope you are right about Mukasey, but I have to admit I am skeptical about the entire bunch.

  3. bobschacht says:

    One of the temptations of feeling above the law is that one doesn’t bother to keep one’s illegal activities tidy. I hope that what is happening is that administrative hubris has consequences, even if one has succeeded in completely corrupting the Department of “Justice.”

    I also hope that one of these days, Mukasey will decide that the perpetual sense of being dirty that he is feeling can be cleansed only by sunshine and a renewal of fair and impartial jurisprudence.

    Bob in HI

  4. earlofhuntingdon says:

    One would think there’s plenty of ground to cover with Rove that would not relate to his conversations with the President or deliberations concerning his official duties. For starters, by definition, those official duties would exclude, eg, conspiracies to violate federal law. It would be like Rove to moonlight for his other clients and/or to promote personal objectives, one or more of which could have involved violations of federal or state laws.

    Hypothetically, it’s possible to pursue legal objectives – hiring and firing of USA’s – for corrupt purposes. Obstructing justice and corrupting the prosecutorial function itself come to mind.

    Hypothetically, Rove could have conspired with clients in Alabama to corrupt local federal USA’s or their enforcement of the law and planned to implement illegal goals while engaging in what would otherwise be legal conduct. He could have done the same with politicians and private citizens in other states. It’s difficult to see why such communications with others would be privileged.

  5. earlofhuntingdon says:

    Luskin, I suspect, is doing several things at once, including fishing for an assertion of privilege to protect his client, and dramatically drawing a line in the sand, hoping that Congress won’t insist that his client cross it.

    A significant distinction between Rove and Miers also seems to be that Miers was acting as Bush’s lawyer, advising him how legally to execute his official duties.

    Rove had (has?) significantly broader reach, professionally and personally. He is on WH Watch, controlling the message. But he’s also on the hustings, looking for every opportunity to expand GOP interests and cut the legs out from under a Democrat. And Alabaman Goopers have been close clients for over a decade and a half.

    His famous political “math” is based on a scatter gun approach, except that he specifically aims each pellet, thanks to his amazing energy and memory, his attention to detail, and his utterly uninhibited willingness to try anything. A good chunk of what he was doing could not have been about advising Shrub.

    • emptywheel says:

      Also note, Mukasey distinguished between Clinton and Gore’s statements being released to Congress and Bush and Cheney’s statements on Plame being released on the grounds that the former were involved in campaign issues–politics. At some point that must apply for ROve too, though I’m not sure where that point will be.

      • sojourner says:

        It is just so difficult when there is so much sewage that one has to walk through… I am late to this party, but I find your analysis fascinating. I also have to wonder at what point these idiots figure out that they have painted themselves into a corner with no way out. Does it then become “every man for himself?” Karl, in particular, must be feeling his rectum puckering up…

  6. JohnLopresti says:

    I’m glad to see the linking into the way the administration approaches environment policy. In June 2008 DOI’s IG published report 40pp on US Fish+Wildlife Service’s endangered species protection programs. The still redacted final version linked. Here are some of the same IG’s report’s out-takes with redactions. These are some secret fish and hushed wildlife, which even the public may not review in government documents.

  7. Loo Hoo. says:

    Whenever I see that clip, what stand out for me-besides the stststamering over denying involvement, is the shit-eating grin he gives Stephanopolis at the end. Like saying, aren’t I smart…you tried to pin me down, but I’m smarter than you. I’m above the law.

  8. masaccio says:

    Making Rove show up is one thing. Finding someone who can ask decent questions is quite another.

    • emptywheel says:

      Interesting point. Rove was subpoenaed to appear before Subcommittee on Administrative Law–Sanchez’ subcommittee–not the full committee. I was going to say that Artur Davis was bound to be on his A game (given that he wants to run for state-wide office in Siegelman’s state in the very near future). But the Republicans can refuse to let him participate, as they did to Delahunt in the Addington hearing.

      That said, Administrative Law has some of the standouts. Delahunt, Watt, and Cohen are all pretty good.

      Hon. Sánchez
      Chairman
      (D) California, 39th

      Hon. Conyers Jr.
      (D) Michigan, 14th

      Hon. Johnson
      (D) Georgia, 4th

      Hon. Lofgren
      (D) California, 16th

      Hon. Delahunt
      (D) Massachusetts, 10th

      Hon. Watt
      (D) North Carolina, 12th

      Hon. Cohen
      (D) Tennessee, 9th

        • JTMinIA says:

          You can only your give time to a non-member of the committee if no-one objects. Delahunt only got to ask questions because, the second time is was tried, there was no R around to say ‘no.’ The first time that someone tried to give Delahunt some time, there was an objection.

      • masaccio says:

        Thanks, I did see the comments on changing the order of pictures, and I think I got it the way I wanted it. If not, I guess most folks interested in the China pictures will figure out how to look at them.

        The NYT review confirms what I thought I was seeing. I saw one of the hutongs in the process of gentrifying, and in the ones south of the Forbidden City, I saw some signs of the beginnings of that process: the pavement in the alley (the word hutong means alley) was torn up, and there was some kind of renovation of the buildings on the edge of the development.

        In another area, just north of the park of the Temple of Heaven, the hutongs on the right side of the street (going north) were gone, and a large building project was under way, behind a gray wall. On the left side, there was another gray wall, and behind this one were more hutongs.

        It looks like the people are moving into high rises. It reminds me of the banlieues of France, or the construction on the outskirts of Florence, or of Cabrini Green. I wonder what kind of neighborhood culture can grow in that environment.

        • masaccio says:

          That would be me, in the costume for the Lion Dance. That school has professional Lion Dancers training the kids in a traditional Chinese art form, and we were invited to try some of the activities. You should have seen me trying to manipulate the flag like the 9 year olds.

        • PetePierce says:

          Unfortunately, althought China is a paradox technologically and you have a profound understanding of it compared to what I just read where I can, and I haven’t been there, I’m betting that most of those high rises will be closest to the milieu of Cabrini Green.

          It is hard to get a grip on China for me because it is so incredibly huge and I guess, diverse.

          There were some interesting figures on gas consumption over the weekend, and we still dwarf the consumption that China and India are reaching.

        • masaccio says:

          I forgot to mention that the hutongs are property of the government, which allocates to houses to citizens as it sees fit, and probably makes money selling them to private developers.

  9. CTMET says:

    If he does show up will we get a lot of… “I can’t recall”…”I don’t remember”, “I can’t recall if I remember”, and “I didn’t keep records for that”.

    If Mukasey doesn’t allow EP is there any other recourse or is that only inherent contempt.

  10. rosalind says:

    OT: ew is next door hosting today’s book salon, Paul Alexander’s “Machiavelli’s Shadow: The Rise and Fall of Karl Rove”

  11. readerOfTeaLeaves says:

    Just a quick reminder for those who’ve forgotten what Mr. Addington had to say in late June about Unitary Exec, from whence Rove probably expects his hall pass (in the form of Unitary Exec Privilege):

    Conyers: … Do you feel that the unitary theory of the executive allows the president to do things over and above the stated law of the land?”

    Addington: “The Constitution binds all of us, Congressman, the president, all of you as members of Congress, all of the federal judges. We all take an oath to support and defend it. I, frankly, don’t know what you mean by unitary theory of government. I don’t have — “

    Conyers: “Have you ever heard of that theory before?”

    Addington: “Oh, I have. I’ve seen it in the newspapers all — “

    Conyers: “Do you support it?”

    Addington: “I don’t know what it is.”

    Conyers: “You don’t know what it is.”

    Addington: “No, and it’s always described as something Addington’s a great advocator of — …I’ve used the word…”

    Conyers: ” — you don’t know what the unitary theory means.”

    Addington: “I don’t know what you mean by it, no, Mr. Chairman.”

    Conyers: “You don’t know what I mean by it.”

    Addington: “Or anyone else.”

    Conyers: “Do you know what you mean by it?”

    Addington: “I know exactly what I mean by it and. . . .”

    Conyers: “Tell me.”

    Addington: “The use of the word unitary by me has been in the context of unitary executive branchand all that refers to is — I think it’s the first sentence of Article 2 of the Constitution, which says all of the executive power is vested in, A, the president of the United States, one president, all of the executive power, not some of it, not part of it, not the parts Congress doesn’t want to exercise itself. That’s all it refers to.”

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..815_3.html

    Under the Unitary Exec view of Exec Privilege, Rove would not have to testify.
    It’s actually become rather interesting to watch the Bu$hCheney advocates reveal themselves as either toadies (Abu Gonzo, Kyle ‘the Aggregator’ Sampson, Monica Gooding), or as insolent, passive/aggressive thugs (Lurita Doan, Addington, Yoo).

    The public needs to watch Rove squirm, deny, and wiggle in public and they need some good commentary analysts to explain the ways that Rove will try to evade accountability.

    It’s not possible to keep democracy functioning if people don’t learn from mistakes, and he’s a walkin’, talkin’ Exhibit A in what takes democracies down the death spiral to fascist thuggery.

    No doubt many in the public would find it riveting.

    • skdadl says:

      … not the parts Congress doesn’t want to exercise itself …

      That was the oddest thing to toss in. I take it that it was meant as an insult, but given the earlier part of the sentence, it also seems to me a non sequitur. Addington is such a faker. He does rhetoric, but he doesn’t do logic.

      • emptywheel says:

        No, that’s an attack on Youngstown, and he should have been asked about it (though that would technically be beyond the scope of what he was testifying on). Youngstown says Congress can legislate on anything, and the Executive can have unfettered control over what’s left. Addington is saying he doesn’t believe in Youngstown.

      • BoxTurtle says:

        NOT as an insult, as a warning I think. He’s reminding senior Democrats that they’re much more aware of what BushCo has been doing than has been reveiled publically and that they chose not to act.

        Boxturtle (With the implied threat to spill a little bit of who knew what & when)

      • masaccio says:

        Skdadl, that is probably a reference to laws that vest authority in agencies, such as the FDA, or more independent groups like the Federal Reserve Board.

    • Loo Hoo. says:

      The public needs to watch Rove squirm, deny, and wiggle in public and they need some good commentary analysts to explain the ways that Rove will try to evade accountability.

      I’m part of the public, and expect EW and all of you experts will have some analysis. Truly, though, I think you’re suggesting some analysis through the MSM.

      • readerOfTeaLeaves says:

        I’m certainly no expert, although I came to the blogs with plenty of ‘committee hearings’ and meetings under my belt this is a different kettle of fish, so to speak.

        What concerns me — partly b/c of my CSPAN viewings and also definitely b/c of my experiences sitting on committees and preparing for testimony and hearing it (though certainly not at the Congressional level — is the horrendous f*cking format.

        If I were Rove, I’d design the Congressional rules just as they are.
        Ditto Addington.
        Ditto Cheney, Bush… yadda, yadda.

        The f-o-r-m-a-t plays totally in favor of those providing testimony.
        The first time I’ve seen Congress start to take control was when Nadler stopped the clock repeatedly when Yoo or Addington started dodging, asking for clarification, etc.

        IMHO, Nadler should have given Wasserman ALL the time back that Addington took up when he implied that she hadn’t asked a question. (She had, but like the authoritarian he is, his conduct toward the female was demeaning and implied she was too stupid to phrase a question. This did not surprise me in the least, BTW. But Nadler should have just laconically pointed out that she HAD asked a question the previous minute and that Addington’s dodge was not going to be counted against Wasserman’s time.)

        At any rate, the f-o-r-m-a-t that Congress has been using is just like serving up their collective asses to whoever comes in to testify. What they need to do is appoint a couple members (Artur Davis would have been good; Cohen, Nadler, Wasserman) do most of the questioning, with the other members handing over their time to those few questioners.

        Think of it this way:
        When the FBI has to interview a suspected criminal, they don’t sit around in a goddamn circle and say, “Agent A now has five minutes to question you, Mr. Writer of Torture Statements Asshole”, and then Agent B has five minutes, and then Agent C has five minutes.

        May I never be questioned by the FBI (!).
        However, Congressional hearings were designed to elicit advice, varying points of view, ideas, background info… THAT’S what a good committee hearing is supposed to do. It happens when people show up well prepared (a near miracle, but I digress…), and with a good witness [like JAG Mora was] it can provide invaluable info in a very reasonable amount of time.

        In addition, it allows everyone to have their questions answered, get clarification, so that the group can make a reasonable, well-rounded recommendation and/or decision.

        And I’m trying my damndest to point out that this committee hearing structure is NOT the right format for uncovering criminal conduct. These rules and this format play straight to the WH and its allies.

        Don’t think for a second that Dick Cheney has this thing wired inside and out — wouldn’t surprise me if his spies were on the staff for these committees (in fact, I’d be far more surprised if they aren’t). So Rove and whoever else knows that they may not win friends and look good on teevee, but WTF do they care?

        Gosh, if dodging for 5 minutes at a turn keeps their asses out of federal prison, I doubt they give a rat’s ass.

        But think about it — and I hope it’s clear that I’m not advocating inhuman treatment, but I AM trying to point out that Congress is making a noose to hang itself while K-k-k-karl laughs his sleazy ass off.

        So just to try and make my point a bit more clear, ask yourself: would the FBI do it this way? Would your local cops?

        Congress is acting like this is just about ‘collecting information’. Well… okay, that’s the kabuki and they know how to do it. But it’s inept and inefficient because it doesn’t give them the tools they need to lay the net that these criminals need to walk right into.

        It would be nice if all Congress had to do was ‘collect data’ and be sweetly singing and sighing about how did Karl do this or that thing? But that’s bullshit.

        Their task is to expose criminal conduct.
        Taking turns every five minutes is not, IMHO, a format that enables anyone — not even Artur Davis — to haul someone’s lying ass over a barrel.

        What Karl Rove and the rest of the BushBots have done to this nation and the world is criminal.
        And at this point, Congress is the only branch left to get them.

        Youngstown may be a legal issue; there may be other legal issues. The lawyers can deal with those issues.

        The communications issues involve the fookin’ format.
        It’s wrong.
        It plays to Rove.

        Congress needs to address this problem – it screwed them In Iran-Contra, and every one of us (AND our kids!!!) has paid the price.

        I’m saying the stakes are too high for Congress to wait two goddamn years for Rove to show. Or not.
        And if he does show, then they go around in a little circle of Musical Chairs to ask about their little items.

        Someone needs think a bit more clearly about what format Congress should use when they’re confronted with having to get to the bottom of a crime. Not follow “24″, but figure out a format that strengthens the hand of Congress. That’s their job. And I’m really frustrated that they’re not doing it.

        • readerOfTeaLeaves says:

          Should be:

          Don’t think for a second that Dick Cheney doesn’t have this thing wired inside and out — wouldn’t surprise me if his spies were on the staff for these committees (in fact, I’d be far more surprised if they aren’t). Cheney’s been on the Hill and he knows this process. And he knows how to play it to his advantage. So does Rove. So Rove and whoever else knows that they may not win friends and look good on teevee, but WTF do they care?

        • hackworth says:

          You’re right. The format does suck for all the reasons you state.

          By the time Rove could be effectively prosecuted for anything, he’d be pardoned quickly enough. Perhaps the kabuki and the exposure to the public is the valuable part. If he had to, Rove could tolerate a few months in Federal Prison. They have soft-serve ice cream there. No quail wings, though.

        • hackworth says:

          They do. Its a tangled web. Dubya holds the ultimate pardon power. If they run the bus over Dubya, the pardon is taken off the table. Dubya will pardon himself if need be.

        • PetePierce says:

          You have come to realize that the committee setup is fairly Mickey Mouse. In the hearings that I’ve watched, more could be accomplished if the Chairmen were more aggressive in using his or her discretion to extend the question time of some members, and part of that five minute rule’s reasoning is that often they have a cascade of people on the panels testifying before these committees (by that I mean that there are several people in series and they may have four or five series of people.

          I’ve seen that for example when they haul in a large number of medical experts to explore a topic and they devide them into several panels and bring the panels in for a while.

          The Rule is Rule 14 here.

          Although I linked a list from Waxman’s site, this Rule applies to all of Congress’ oversight Committees.

        • PetePierce says:

          I meant to add that if a member wants to just clusterfuck the whole process, as you’ve seen, they can. Your homeboy Daryl Issa, of California 49th fame, has done this for years. Jim Davis on Waxman’s committee is a master of it, and I’ll be glad to see him gone after January.

        • PetePierce says:

          Whoops I meant Tom Davis the Ranking Member on Waxman’s committee who has always been a thorn in Waxman’s and every Dem’s side.

        • PetePierce says:

          I appreciate that you are and the considerable time you spend doing this. You know a lot more about the local personalities and politics there than I ever could, and of course Issa has a lot of money, as many Republican incumbants do. I was born in California.

        • PetePierce says:

          Your points are very on target in characterizing the “oversight” hearings (and you’ve done it very well) and any criminal questions or cross examaination. And Contempt of Congress doesn’t lead to the penalties that are prosecuted for 18USC 1001 by AUSAs in the 94 district courts every day of the week, hundreds of times a week.

          As you have noticed, it’s quite easy to jerk the majority of Congress Committee members around and waste time. The arrogant bitch GSA Administrator Lurita Doan accomplished this as an art form while giving a verbal finger to every Dem on Waxman’s committee with Davis running interference for her as he did every second of any hearing the Dems and Waxman ever wanted to have.

        • bobschacht says:

          Thank you, ROTL! I don’t remember these time limits during Watergate. I agree that the format favors the obfuscators.

          But what do you do with the obfuscating members who abuse their face time, not to ask good questions of the witness, but to grandstand and waste time and, in effect, filibuster? I guess what we need is a chair who has the gravitas and the cajones to cut off the blow-hards. How was that issue handled during Watergate?

          Bob in HI

        • PetePierce says:

          Some hearings are of course much better than others. And there are some distinctions. If a committee calls a bunch of docs about a relatively less controversial topic, or a bunch of fuel experts and petroleum experts where each party doesn’t feel like their are high stakes, the decorum is a lot more cordial and often seems more preductive.

          But in the last few years, if there is a hearing for Lurita Doan and she’s accused of violating the law (which she definitely did)–the Hatch Act, then you get the milieu where it’s Giants v. Patriots and Doan’s party (the Republicans in the form of Issa and particularly Tom Davis) are going to use every nanosecond to attack the other party and obstruct them and praise Doan.

          There is nothing objective about a hearing where one party has a muckety muck caught in the headlights breaking the law and books have been written about the lack of partisanship. I don’t know if there is a discrete marker for when this “us v. them” started, but it’s definitely the name of the game now.

  12. PetePierce says:

    I don’t see how Rove/WH can possibly invoke executive privilege as to any Siegelman discussions or that Rove has ever done anything but deny there were any Siegelman discussions.

    Rove has denied several times there were discussions of his hijacking of DOJ with the White House at least in the only testimony you’re going to ever see before the only oversight committees he recognizes–the ones that pay him for his bullshit

    The Wall Street Journal Commitee, Chairman Rupert Murdock
    The Newsweek Committee, Chairman Jon Meacham
    The Fox Noise Committee, Chairman Roger Ailes

    I have one answer that I’ve maintained now in this situation with Rove, Miers, and Bolten but I haven’t seen the other Committees including Conyers display one set of balls:

    Inherent Contempt
    Inherent Contempt
    Inherent Contempt

    Have I mentioned the balls that are lacking to execute Inherent Contempt on any Congressional or Senate Committee?

    • emptywheel says:

      Well part of my point about asking whether Mukasey has a narrower view of what is permissible under executive privilege is because, if Rove doesn’t show up on Thursday and Bush doesn’t invoke privilege as Rove said he would do shortly six weeks ago, then Mukasey has to be prepared to let Jeff Taylor prosecute Rove for contempt.

      • PetePierce says:

        As usual this was a nice blog and also served to remind all of us with so many things swirling around that Rove is scheduled to testify on July 10, but we both know the chances of Interim D.C. US Attorney Jeff Taylor prosecuting contempt and Mukasey asking him to are pretty remote. Taylor is only sitting in that office because of one of the bullshit provisions in the so-called Patriot act that installs him there until Obama takes the White House. And as EW and most of us know:

        From wikipedia:

        From 1999 to 2002, Mr. Taylor served as majority counsel on the Senate Judiciary Committee where he advised Chairman Orrin Hatch and drafted provisions of the USA PATRIOT Act

        Before his appointment as U.S. Attorney, Mr. Taylor served as Counselor to Attorneys General John Ashcroft and Alberto Gonzales from 2002 to 2006 where he oversaw law enforcement operations by U.S. attorneys. He was appointed interim U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia by Alberto Gonzales on September 22, 2006 and was sworn in seven days later; interim U.S. attorneys do not need to be confirmed by the Senate. Interim U.S. attorneys have no term limit, as a result of an amendment to the law governing interim attorneys included in the USA Patriot Reauthorization Act of 2005; formerly interim appointees had a 120-day term limit, and could be re-appointed (without term limit) at the end of the 120-day term by the chief judge of the district court.

        Mr. Taylor’s position came under heightened interest in March 2007 during the dismissal of U.S. attorneys controversy. On March 20, 2007, President Bush declared in a press conference that White House staff would not testify under oath on the matter if subpoenaed by Congress.[3] One who ignores a Congressional subpoena can be held in contempt of Congress, but the D.C. U.S. Attorney must convene a grand jury to start the prosecution of this crime.

        Under 2 U.S.C. § 194, once either the House or the Senate issues a citation for contempt of Congress, it is referred to the U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia, “whose duty it shall be to bring the matter before the grand jury for its action.”[4] It is unclear (as of March 20, 2007) whether Mr. Taylor would fulfill this duty to convene a grand jury, or resist Congress at the direction of Bush or Gonzales.

        • emptywheel says:

          Right. But now Taylor owes his position to Judge Hogan in DC District, who was head judge when they decided to keep him. The judges in the District Court do like him.

  13. freepatriot says:

    off topic pre game rant:

    I hate the yankees and the redsox, so I’ll be rootin for lots of injuries in about a half hour

    right now, I wanna lodge a complaint

    Major League Baseball rejected my version of “Take Me Out To The Ball Game”

    said it was “Inappropriate for children” or something crazy like that …

    here’s the words, so you can all sing along

    Take It Out At The Ball Game

    Show It Off To The Crowd

    Pull Out Your Peanut And Show Em Some Crack

    I Don’t Care If You Don’t Put It Back

    Pull Your Root Root Root For The Home Team

    If They Don’t Win I Don’t Care

    Cuz It’s One, Two Three Strokes Yer Out At The Old Ball Game

    had to be done. i don’t know why, but it had to be done …

  14. MadDog says:

    Just my swag, but Turdblossom won’t showup on Thursday.

    I base this on a simple fact that when there is no penalty for non-compliance for a Congressional subpoena, Turdblossom will non-comply.

    Until Turdblossom (and Goldbars Luskin) actually here the rattle of manacles and leg-irons, they suffer no fear of penalty.

    A further swag (less science and more wild-ass) is that no Executive Privilege will be asserted on the behalf of Turdblossom by Mukasey and his pet DOJ.

    Again, the rationale is that since there are no consequences for failing to respond to a Congressional subpoena, why bother doing the work to determine if Executive Privilege, Deliberative Privilege, Turdblossom Double Secret Probation Privilege or any other nonsense this Administration could come up with could possibly apply.

    I place higher probability on the first swag than I do the second.

    As always apparently, the ball is in Congress’s court. And just as apparent, they don’t know how or desire to play ball.

    • sojourner says:

      “Turdblossom Double Secret Probation Privilege?” That is truly the absolute best description of how these people operate! It even appears to outrank Executive Privilege!!

      • MadDog says:

        I see the denizens of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue as real twisted version of Animal House.

        Less a comedy, and more of a horror show.

  15. yonodeler says:

    Might Rove’s journalistic career, such as it is, be adversely affected by his flouting the subpoena? Even if it is, he’d have his choice of a few think tanks, I suppose.

    • PetePierce says:

      I really doubt that. I mean all 3 venues are paying him and they are supposed to be news organizations. Obviously WSJ who defiantly refused to run one single story on the Libby trial outside their editorial page, the entire time, including his appeal, but cheerled for Libby on the editorial pages with idiots like Vicki Toensig, and Fox news I understand.

      Why Meacham hired Rove for Newsweek is beyond me.

      But all three have zero understanding of why Rove has been subpoenaed or care if he shows. WSJ and Fox want him to flount the subpoena and Newsweek is “deliberately indifferent” to borrow a legal phrase.

  16. Loo Hoo. says:

    Did my first original digg, nolo. I’ve dugg many times, but this is my first digg, and I apologize that I didn’t copy your title properly before I went there.

  17. BayStateLibrul says:

    Rove’s Laws

    Rove’s lies expand, so as to fill the time available for Luskin’s disclaimers.
    100% percent of everything Rove utters is bullshit.
    Given enough lies, Rove should be indicted.
    Arrest him

  18. MarieRoget says:

    From this morning’s TP (apologies if it’s already been noted somewhere):

    “Five years ago yesterday, former Ambassador Joseph Wilson published an op-ed in the New York Times asserting that the Bush administration manipulated intelligence about Saddam Hussein’s weapons programs. The next day, the administration “admitted that accusations included in the president’s 2003 State of the Union address had turned out to be inaccurate.” TP’s Think Fast 7/7/08

    BTW, I plan on asking David Iglesias over @ FDL Book Salon tomorrow for suggestions on how to question Rover (provided, of course TBlossom deigns to show on Thurs). Might provide some interesting strategy/lines of questioning, based on what Iglesias commented @ the book event I attended in La Jolla a while back.

  19. JohnLopresti says:

    It is possible the topic choices Sanchez plans to address might entice Rove to appear despite Luskin’s letter of refusal; [worn links]. Even Sanchez’s planned review of part of the DoJ purge scandal with Rove could afford Rove an opportunity to remind that his initial counsel was for a wholesale request for resignations instead of the final rank political methodology Bush opted to deploy: his typical gross m.o., undermining and firing the least politically cooperative republican USAs. Congress could learn from this experience with Rove, that ‘wartime’ excesses in granting of privileges to the executive needs more concurrency of oversight. There was a string of laws congress fabricated that gave the AG too much unilateral control. This hearing could fuel part of the ongoing process of review and restatement, to add to congress’ understanding of how best to exercise its lawmaking expertise in crises.

  20. DefendOurConstitution says:

    The day we find a Democrat with a spine will lead to the day we’ll see Rove either testifying or arrested for contemp.

    Both of these days only happen in our very vivid imaginations.

  21. Leen says:

    When Rove was asked if he “directly or indirectly” discussed the possibility of the prosecution of Don Sigelman. Rove responded “I learned about Don Sigelman’s prosecution by reading about it in the newspapers”

    G.S. “that is not a denial”