Secret Schmoozing
Given the discussions about the NIE we’ve had recently, I wanted to point out Marc Lynch’s observation that the Saudis and the Iranians have been flirting lately–under the radar of the US press.
Very few media outlets in the US seem to have noticed, but Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmednejad and Saudi Arabia’s King Abdullah were back together again the other day on the occasion of the Hajj. Ahmednejad’s surprising appearance at the Gulf Cooperation Council summit in early December had set off something of a frenzy of media discussion about whether it meant a possible reconciliation between Iran and its Arab Gulf neighbors. A range of commentators (both officials and pundits) had rushed to pour cold water on those hopes/fears, emphasizing lack of agreement on issues over the sheer fact of the public engagement. Shortly after the Iranian President’s visit to Doha, Secretary of Defense Robert Gates led a significant American delegation to an Arab security meeting in Bahrain to rally the Gulf Arabs against the Iranian threat and to re-energize a collective strategy of containment. This second public meeting – reportedly at the Saudi King’s initiative – suggests that the Gulf Arab approach to Iran really is shifting despite these American efforts. Whatever the private fears of Iran by Gulf leaders and elites (which by all accounts, including my own conversations, are quite real), this very recent Gulf Arab trend from containment towards engagement of Iran seems real.
What is Dick Cheney going to say when he discovers his BFF King Abdullah is schmoozing the Iranians behind his back–during the Hajj no less? Particularly as the Israelis (and a number of Republican Congressmen) insist they can disprove the NIE simply by attacking it often enough. What does it mean that the men controlling a huge chunk of the world’s oil are getting rather cozy?
Morning EW.
An unzeded first comment. Over at http://firedoglake.com/2007/12…..3/#Respond
Some silly person and interjected Football trash talk in response to Christy’s listing of Tom Brady as one of the heads a’talking. Many promotional references to EW and TNH. Strangely, the commenter mixes football with references to British and French food history.
Sorry if this is OT but even defender of the constitutions deserve breaks, so check it out.
Morning EW.
An unzeded first comment. Over at http://firedoglake.com/2007/12…..3/#Respond
CORRECTION (NOT YELLING)
Some silly person WENT and interjected Football trash talk in response to Christy’s listing of Tom Brady as one of the heads a’talking. Many promotional references to EW and TNH. Strangely, the commenter mixes football with references to British and French food history.
Sorry if this is OT but even defender of the constitutions deserve breaks, so check it out.
reply
Now. Getting serious. Truly frightening that you got this from Arab language/region sources.
Is there noone in US MSM on this trail? Am being called away for breakfast. Will try and lexis/nexis it later.
See you then.
There is definitely a re-alignment going on in the Middle East, and the Saudis are calling the shots.
It looks like Mutual Economic Interests are stronger than Religious differences between the Sunnis and Shia – and the re-alignment maximizes their Oil’s Market Value to the World’s emerging new Economic Powers – China and India.
No matter what Bush and Cheney might like us to believe, the story of the 21st Century might as well be titled now – the Rise of China.
All Chimpy and Deadeye did was Hasten the Fall of the United States as the Major Player on the World Stage. Bush bled Our Money and Troops away to the tune of Trillions, just to push the sand around for six years – and give the Gulf States reason to organize defensively against the Dollar and a Forced Consumerist Economy.
If Consumerism is what Bush and Cheney are Selling, then the World has no problem seeing where it leads –
– fat, lazy Sheep for Citizens
– simpleton fairytale Beliefs
– marrionette Politicians
– colluding Accounting Firms
– corruption and greed by the Powerful
– a Law for the Little People, and No Law for the Elites
– broadcast Media that uses Violence and Sex to sell advertising
– isolated to the point of being emotionally and socially retarded
– educated to Believe, not Understand
Bush and Cheney ruined Our Brand – Freedom of Choice – by making it clear that they meant, “Freedom to Choose Only What We Offer You.”
We don’t have to worry about Secret Schmoozing for very much longer – the World is soon to transition to Open Derision of Bush’s Torturing United States…
It is a shame that this is an accurate description of a good chunk of our nation today.
bonjonno – It will probably take some time to arrive at a general agreement, but the outlines of a Concensus regarding a Strategic Failure of the first order – leading to the eclipse of Our Civilization – are beginning to appear.
Ultimately, even Bush the Torturer will have the larger contextualization in the History books as being the Apogee of the Greed-First/People-Duped trajectory of Consumerism.
Consumerism is synonomous with an Addiction Society – it’s only a question of time before the Pushers and Pimps take over, and the People are treated like whores being given crack-laced bon-bons to keep them putting-out.
I love America, but as a Culture, we’ve gone far astray from the loving, responsible way, and have become unwitting, dull, droning slaves to Mammon – too weak – by design – to even ’see’ Our situation, let alone give effective opposition.
How could this be? Democracy out with a Whimper, and Not a Bang?
This is how…
Sadly, yes. Who knew Eddie Haskell would be a world historical role
model for the United States?
Quick OT –
EW, WaPoo giving prominent treatment to the Argentina/Venezuela shenanigans:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..038;sub=AR
An early Merry Xmas to all!
I have to question the assumption that the shooter isn’t the main negotiator. As an agent for a foreign power, shouldn’t we be wire tapping him and not having to ask questions about what he is doing?
I think that anyone that has committed treason and admitted it, should have some restrictions on their actions? Perhaps jail, without the ability to communicate. Gitmo perhaps.
What is he going to say? What does it mean? Same answer to both questions: “Nuke em all”!
I find it so amusing that some politicians (cheney, of course, being one) think they can “control” events and people. So, frankly, this news (and yes, I too saw the footage of the Hadj) amuses me. People are not controllable, unless you use torture.
If I’ve learned one thing as a therapist, if you’re even trying to help someone change with their permission, the best you can do is to act like a lever, helping them out of some “stuck position.” However, you have no way at all to predict the direction they will move in.
To be honest I look for those surprises, those unexpected moves, as proof that therapy is working and that a person is making changes from within, from some place I cannot control. Once a person is freed up, then my work is done. An inner growth trajectory takes over.
Now cheney, of course, cannot tolerate that!!!! So it must be driving him bonkers that he’s had his hands on the levers of power for this long and everything is going to hell in a handbasket. (from his perspective)
In my view people who try to control everyone, include foreign countries and leaders, are fighting a losing battle. Sure, they can even try to take over and have a dictatorship here (Dick…tatorship included). But ultimately forces outside the dictator’s control take over. Control is like squeezing a balloon. Yes, you’ve “controlled” that one part. But what about the rest of it?
So, honestly, I simply love that people and countries will form alliances (possibly against us… and why should they not?) and operate from their own self-interest and not ours (and why should our self-interest be better anyway?).
cheney is likely not amused. But I am. Amused at what’s happening. And, even more, amused at the fact that cheney can’t stop it… unless as bmaz @10 says, he destroys the whole world.
You mean beside $300/barrel for sweet crude? It may also mean that Saudi and Iran and other oil producing OPEC states have a enourmous incentive to cooperate and collude, and subsequently too much to lose to not consider producing the military trump card, ICBM nukes, to defend against the enxt invasion …unless Saudi can broker a peace… clearly obstructed by our presence in IRAQ.
Foreign military occupation of a muslim state is a greater injustice than the thousand year old war between sunni and shia.
Are YOU ready for some football?
See you at Emptywheel’s Famous Football Trash Talk Thread – Holiday Edition
I am typically in awe of Ms E Wheel’s turn of mind on most all she deems of interest to Surviving Junior [plus I admit I lept from the bed this a.m. in my best early Boomer imitation of an 8 year old on Xmas morning, just in case something special might appear under this tree on Ms W’s turn on the news from Laura Rozen connecting Jugen torture naif Kiriakou to Scootzie’s hunt thru R Grenier’s office for more detail on Ms Plame], but I think she’s got this take wrong.
Abdullah is in his mid 80’s, when regents of sane mind tend to think of their legacy [which as I understand can occur earlier depending on the presence & progress of mental disorder], & IMO everything King Ab has done since he actually took the throne [as opposed to being caretaker] has bee geared towards securing the House of Saud. Remember his journal to Bush’s personal Mecca in Crawford? Remember the “Abdullah Plan”? Remember the successive recalls to his side first of Bush BFF Prince Bandar [greatly empowered through his own father’s high office but without any prospects for installation on the the KSA throne] & then of the ultra competent Prince Turki [greatly damaged from picking up after Bandar’s messes in the UK early in the “sensational headlines” point in the BAe investigation – then in the USA after the Dems 2006 “victory” suggested Bandar’s BFF’s team may be losing its grip on US foreign policy, & the last we saw back home to Rancho Riyadh to help get Bandar under some control – pretty much during the high point of the Shooter Shuttle period.
The fragility of the House of Saud’s control over KSA motivates it to side with whoever is carrying the biggest stick in that region, even over the “smart money” choice. It’s not as if the leaders of the other Arab Gulf states have any trouble with that, because it’s always KSA paying for the conferences, dealing with the infidels, sending in money & arranging for infidel arms to support insurgencies against other invasions by other infidels, and always available to arrange bridge financing or a comfy retirement.
If the smart money is on the US now being the big fat DEAD elephant in the room, due to the lame duckedness of its administration, the overwhelming likelihood of dramatic change in US foreign policy from November next year,
[I can’t help thinking that the 20% gap between support for Dem candidates for president over their Rub counterparts that’s shown up in all accurate polling for months now is by now intractable by any objective measure – though it’s hard to find anyone objective on the issue – which may be due to it being in reality the one part of the electoral base which typically sits out elections: what Original Dick referred to as the Silent Majority]
plus the impression that formerly robust America is wasting away from a case of post 17th Century Spanish Hubris.
My take is that the side of the House of Saud insiders on which Prince Turki sits is currently winning against the side on which Prince Bandar sits; and I’d be pleased to consider any argument as to why the former is not the “smart money” side.
I agree that it is all about the survival of the House of Saud. They don’t have to like a lot of heretical Iranian Shia to do diplomatic business with them. After all, they do business with us and they like us in some ways even less. The difference between the two situations is that we come and go while the Iranians are neighbors and will be there forever. The Saudis are just covering their bets. It’s SOP really.
slightly OT, but did anyone see the Times of London headline (12/23)
“Torture Tape fingers Bush as War Criminal”
ok, its Andrew Sullivan, but still IT”S THE FRONT PAGE SUNDAY TIMES OF LONDON . . . . .
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/t…..086937.ece
No more access for Andrew Sullivan. Now we know his spouse is not a covert CIA agent.
Looks like Dick is going to have to make another flight to the Middle East.
Given that Congress passed an initative to modestly raise gas milage in LOL 13 years, I wonder what kind of hike it’s going to take at the pump to park all them SUVs and gas hog trucks that cause a 16% increase in fatal/paralyzing C-Spine fractures in Single SUV or multiple SUV involved accidents?
It’s also intriguing that Toyota, maker of the poster child for Yuppie and Bill Maher fuel efficiency the Prius, also makes/sells Big trucks and has engaged in an intense lobbying effort to block fuel efficiency standards in the U.S. although it’s been on board with existng European standards that hover around 40+ mpg.
Congress hi fived itself after passing an energy initiative whose milage standards at 36 mpg (well below existing European standars kick in in 2020 (not the TV program) after Michigan’s John Dingell and Toyota furiously opposed them.
The energy bill also focuses on expensive ethanol which is hardly the most economical or viable alternative.
hey wheel, check this out, rodriquz might be throwing the chimp under the bus
Heh, heh!!! *g*
can they give conditional immunity so he can’t change his story? (i.e. “determined not to be the fall guy” into the scooter libby honorary firewall).
I’ve been reminding for some time that Bennett was using the same language as Monica Goodling’s lawyer did just before he got her immunity and got her out of any guilt for politicizing our entire hiring process.
I suspect Bennett has something similar in mind.
As expected, no immunity, no talkee.
I would hope that the House Intelligence Committee staff would get a proffer from Bennett on just what Rodriguez can testify to.
Secondly, I would also hope that no such immunity be given unless Rodriguez has some real bomb shells (i.e. indictable info on high up WH morons).
If I was leading the committee, I’d play real hard ball with Bennett. In the end, I’d rather have Rodriguez pleading the 5th than to sellout for less than an indictable major WH player.
And meanwhile, my Vikes are gettin’ their butts kicked.
Marcy,
Lest I forget in my normal holiday rush, I wanted to wish you, Jane, Christy, Siun, Pach and all the other residents and visitors of Firedoglake Happy Holidays!
A favorite of mine is “I’ll Be Around“.
I don’t know if you guys are interested….but some of the allegations about the Defense Ministry in Britain, as well as the manufacturers of landmines..are being called into scrutiny in this long-overdue inquiry into the crash of Diana/Dodi….
Unbelievably colorful testimony…and don’t miss (save it for the end) the testimony of the American holistic healer…Myriah….
Wow, just wow….it is a novel right in the transcripts, you can’t make this up:
http://www.scottbaker-inquests.gov.uk/
So…Rodriguez (keeper of secrets) is sayin’…listen mofos…you wanna take me down as the fall guy for your fuckery????….Uh…huh….make my day….bring it on….
Delicioso!! Ummm…triple-buttered popcorn, the melted kind…yeah…bring it on Baby!!!!
D’ya think the WH is needing a bunch of Amb*en for this one….Yeah….
Bring it on!!
I have zero confidence in Sylvestre Reyes and his merry dwarfs on so-called HPSCI to get anything meaningful out of Bill Bennett and his client.