“If You Are a Psycho and You Want to Make Headlines”
JD Vance has gotten a lot of deserved criticism for the offhand way he dismissed the Apalachee School shooting.
If you are a psycho and you want to make headlines, you realize that our schools are soft targets. And we have got to bolster security at our schools.
[snip]
I don’t want my kids to go to school in a place where they feel like you’ve got to have additional security. But that is increasingly the reality we live in.
[snip]
We don’t have to like the reality that we live in. But it is the reality that we live in. We’ve got to deal with it.
Trump, of course, famously told the families grieving after a shooting in Perry, Iowa, “It’s just horrible, so surprising to see it here. But have to get over it, we have to move forward.”
It’s not just that JD’s proposed solution is to box everyone up in aquariums like the Secret Service has done to Trump, but the way in which both men want to pray (or feign prayer, in Trump’s case) and move on.
Compare that to how Trump’s own people are treating his own shooting.
Vance, of course, didn’t blame some “psycho who wanted to make headlines” for Trump’s shooting. Instead, he blamed Joe Biden.
And Trump’s top propagandist, Stephen Miller, won’t shut up about Trump’s shooting.
Trump’s people want people to obsess about his own shooting, a month ago, even while minimizing the impact of a shooting that killed four, including two kids. That’s true, even though all the evidence to date suggests that Thomas Crooks shares many similarities with school shooters like accused Georgia shooter Colt Gray, including a fascination with previous school (and in Crooks’ case, presidential) shooters.
Even given all of the Secret Service’s failures, Donald Trump was not a soft target, like schools are. But ultimately he, too, was vulnerable to an assault rifle in the hands of a disturbed young man hoping for notoriety.
Trump and Stephen Miller and JD Vance don’t want to get over that shooting attempt, and the murder of Corey Comperatore. They need Trump to be more special than all the kids gunned down in their schools. They need Trump’s shooting to have a meaning they won’t ascribe to the murder of children in their classrooms.
And yet Trump is no more special a victim than the teenagers killed in Georgia.
VANCE: We don’t have to like the reality that we live in.
But it is the reality that we live in. We’ve got to deal with it.
But they DO “like the reality that we live in”.
If they did not like that reality, they would fvcking DO something about it.
They don’t even get out of the fvcking way when others want to DO something about it.
They STAND in the FVCKING way when others want to DO something about it.
QED: TRUMP and the GOP DO “like the reality that we live in”.
Why some reporter hasn’t asked Vance pointedly if he ever experienced an active shooter drill while attending school is beyond me.
Vance has no experience with that reality.
Posted on Mastodon:
In his aquarium. Bottom feeding and loving it.
I am envisioning several dozen people sitting a footfall field length in front of him, trying to make out what he’s saying over crappy speakers aimed in their direction.
It’s a lie that mass shootings are a fact of life. They’re rare to nonexistent in most other countries. The US has chosen to encourage and allow them. This is especially true of right wing politicians like Vance and their supporters.
Preaching to the choir, I know.
2nd Amendment Reality: When JDV says, “That’s the reality we live in”, actually, it’s the reality in which we DIE and we don’t have to deal with it anymore when that happens, right? I think that’s what he meant.
Lil’ JD has the luxury to tell everyone else to get used to it and get over it. He speaks behind half a dozen large bullet-proof panels and a phalanx of taxpayer-funded security guards.
Those are resources not available to the average high school student or teacher. Unless you’re an oligarch or other billionaire, it’s not available to anyone not in or running for the top two government posts in America,
I suggest that the reality that “we” live in is not the reality they live in – they simply do not care about our reality one way or the other. They have the money and connections to make sure they never have to worry about their kids getting shot. They don’t have to run into us at airports, stand next to us on the subway, or run into us at the grocery store. Their lives are designed to avoid anything that might harm them, inconvenience them, or delay them.
I once flew on a private jet (not mine). A town car picks you up in town, you drive to Teterboro, the driver flashes a card, and you pull up next to the plane. The pilot puts your luggage in the belly, you get on, and you take off.
The people who live that way would probably crumble if they had to live like the rest of us. But JD and his kids will never be shot, and his kids have already gotten into Yale Law. That family (and so many others) have no worries. Their reality is vastly different, and they have the power to keep it that way.
Right on Harpie. As long as the majority of gun violence is targeted at ‘people unlike me’, it isn’t an issue for the GOP. Whereas for those of us with compassion for all, even one of these tragedies is too many.
Is it an aquarium, or the Cone of Silence?
Here’s the reality, expressed succinctly by the sister of one of the Apalachee victims:
“Unfortunately, my brother did not make it out of school alive.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/09/05/victims-georgia-school-shooting-apalachee-high/
Something about that quote encapsulates just how cruel and uncivilized our country has allowed itself to become.
“Shooter is neutralized. Ok Mr. Trump, all clear. You can act tough for Fox cameras now.”
Colt’s daddy bought him an AR for his birthday; shades of Adam Lanza.
It seems to me that the Democrats should propose that those 21 and under can only possess a .22 bolt action rifle unless they are under adult supervision. The law should also allow for the prosecution of the registered gun owner/parent if any other gun is used by a person under 21 to commit crimes. This proposal would nullify Trump’s claim of being special.
“Colt’s daddy…”
I’m gonna guess the poor kid was screwed from the moment he took his first breath. After all, who names their kid after a young horse? I mean, he CAN’T have been named after a 150 year old gun manufacturer, right?
Waylon Jennings’ son with Jessi Colter is known as Shooter. AFAIK, he hasn’t shot up a school yet.
“Colt” likely has more to do with the pistol or an aspiring quarterback than a horse. It’s not uncommon here in Georgia.
Has Gelding fallen out of favour?
Daddy is now being criminally charged, as well he should. It turns out that last year, when law enforcement visited the Gray home after Colt posted threats online to do a school shooting, but didn’t have positive proof it was him, Collin assured them the Kid didn’t have unsupervised access to his guns. He didn’t want the kid to enter the mental health system because then they’d come after his guns. Apparently, he then gifted the kid an AR15. I hope he is convicted and locked up for a long time.
Ethan Crumley’s parents (Michigan school shooter) bought him an “early Christmas present” too – Sig Sauer handgun.
Everything they do, and say, is to scam you. Here’s another example. Per a news report, former Congressman George Santos on Thursday sat in the gallery during the plea hearing of a Texan who had tried to scam Santos by falsely claiming he could get Santos’ criminal case tossed, or upcoming sentence reduced, in exchange for cash.
The lying, the half truths, the fraud – it begets more liars, and more fraudsters. Incredible. But that’s Trump — lie, lie, lie, and eventually the suckers will begin to believe you, and sympathize with you. Poor, poor, baby Donald—always the victim.
Nobody in the GOP mentioned Kamala Harris’ close encounter with a pipe bomb on J6 to my knowledge, either. And she has subsequently been flagged as someone who will enslave us all to communism if she is not stopped.
There are many things that ought to be done to reduce the incidence of psychos getting automatic weapons and carrying out mass shootings. A “soft target” might be to reintroduce the federal assault weapons ban. By that I mean a simple thing, not easy to legislate in today’s political climate.
They think God protected Trump when the bullet missed him and killed a couple of unimportant supporters instead. They never think that maybe God was sending them a message…Do something about the guns! Their God can make the bullet miss but he can’t stop the kid with the gun before he shoots it. It’s like they figure out the conclusion and then work backward to justify that conclusion, in other words…Religion
So I guess God had it out for the people who were killed when Trump was grazed by broken glass ? I always find it interesting that people think that God picks and chooses winners and losers in life and football games.
I would give almost anything for some high schooler or college/pro footballer to say, “I’d like to thank Beelzebub for the win tonight. Couldn’t have done it without Him!”
Or any number of female goddesses. Pele for one. Or Kali.
Here’s a list of six Greek goddesses of power & strength:
https://dreamsandmythology.com/women-in -greek-mythology/
Break in url after “in”…
It has occurred to me that God spared Trumps’s life so that he could endure the humiliation of losing to Harris, then being sent to jail, financially broken. I don’t know much about religion, but I know what I like…
Karma is a bitch.
Karma means choice — one gets what they choose including everything related to and resulting from that choice.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Or you know, FAFO.
Karmala: Not a bitch. Tough but fair. That said, conmen, liars, and sex pests better watch out.
Vance’s comments make me spitting mad.
Sure JD, lets build walls with razor wire around our schools and have the kids attend full time, surrounded by armed guards, year round (no free lunches though, that’s Socialism).
A rough cut at the math of the solution, admittedly a WAG.
115K schools K-12 in the US.
$50 K for each security guard.
2.5 guards for each school.
Nothing but a simple $14 B to fund that solution.
I got a gold escalator to sell you….
“Walz’s For Trump”
–Grammatically incorrect T shirts worn by Walz’s second cousins. Gee, what a surprise.
https://apnews.com/article/walz-family-nebraska-trump-elelction-2f2e29586b0e9ebe094ff2cf546e1ae4
Cue the “Walls for Trump” t-shirts with prison gates and razor wire graphics.
OT – Dr. Wheeler, the history podcaster you took to task (Darrell Cooper) is the subject of a Michelle Goldberg opinion and apparently a Tucker Carlson interview. I could post a gift article if desired?
The insensitivity is endemic in the GOP, since they have purged out all rational voices via primaries and RWNM attacks. It’s manifested in their ‘telling like it is’ tropes and arrogance like was seen in Arlington last week. In the latter example, the two (!) pushers were named: Michael Picard and Justin Caporale (he was the ‘project manager’ at the Ellipse on J6).
It’s also apparent that each outrage has to be more disgusting than prior ones, like ‘reality shows’ have to ratchet up conflicts to keep interest.
However, if Convict-1 really was coherent, he wouldn’t have run the ‘Dems setup a made-up story’ line on Tuesday while also releasing the unedited video that Steven Cheung said the campaign had. IMHO, I think Convict-1 is testing the waters to see just how outrageous he can be before the courtier press calls him out for his actions.
A decade into his serial manipulation of the press and at this apparent stage of his cognitive decline, I find it hard to believe he perceives any risk of negative blowback from his statements.
The media still hasn’t realized they are his narcissistic supply.
All news which mentions Trump is good news because it’s his psychological oxygen, proof of his continued existence.
If they starved him and covered issues instead he would completely decompensate.
i was pleased that CNN didn’t bother to carry his “Press conference” today. they discussed it fayer, AMD had a clip, but no live coverage.
This. 100%!
“If they starved him and covered issues instead he would completely decompensate.”
He’s been manipulating the press for much longer than a decade:
“For nearly three decades, Donald Trump allegedly fucked with reporters by pretending to be his own imaginary publicist named John Miller or John Barron”
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/news/a44858/donald-trump-own-publicist-reporter-audio/
GOP lacks emotional intelligence.
A lecture on “humanity” from Stephen Miller? On behalf of Donald Trump? Not worth wrapping my ahead around, even if I could.
Psst! JD—you’re running with a psycho who wants to make headlines…
/s
Child sacrifice — not just for Phoenecians
Judge Juan Merchan delays Trump’s sentencing in NY state criminal fraud trial until November 26th, weeks after the election.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2024/sep/06/trump-harris-us-election
This is asinine. Trump was already found guilty, how could sentencing have an effect on the election?
Further, why the fuck is Merchan assessing the immunity ruling? Candidates for president don’t have presidential immunity.
Agree with you on the ludicrousness of delaying the sentencing. However on the immunity part I would assume Judge Merchan doesn’t want the trial verdict overturned on appeal; some of the evidence was from TFG’s time in office, even if it would be laughable to call a hush-hush payment to Michael Cohen an “official presidential act.”
It’s laughable but his lawyers actually argued that during the trial, IIRC.
So do the odds go up or down on the convicted felon being sentenced to jail time?
Were they ever up? He is (officially) a first time offender, and “democracies don’t jail their presidents”. Even Sarkozy just served house arrest
If Stephen Miller was so upset that convention speakers weren’t sending their “thoughts and prayers”, he should be thankful that noone did a Trump style call for civility. There was a related type of incident with Nancy Pelosi’s husband. Mr. Trump didn’t send condolences or try to turn down the heat. He went around the country making jokes about it. As if it was funny to have political violence– but only against others. So Mr. Miller can at least take comfort in no speakers making fun of the shooting at Trump’s rally.
JD’s current aggregate net favorability is -10.7.
Tim Walz is +5.
That’s a 15% spread
The Harris Walz campaign (or perhaps the Lincoln Project or George Conway who know how to troll DJT) should be pushing the idea that old, cognitively declining Trump may not serve out his term. That would be OK with his Project 2025 handlers. J. D. Is their boy, he is ready and willing to implement the plan. Donnie is just a useful idiot to get their guy in place. They know that DJT does not care about anything but the grift, and could care less about any governing philosophy.
Donny should already be scared of windows, cause that may be the Day One to do for Project 2025.
A vote for Don is a vote for JD.
You peeked at Peter Thiel’s playbook, didn’t you.
Indeed, a vote for TFG is a vote for Vance. Should Trump prevail, however it might happen, and end up as POTUS, he becomes expendable the instant he finishes the oath of office. All his backers know it. He must know it too.
I wonder if he would withdraw from the race if Harris were to say she’d pardon him.
I am not sure i can agree with that last sentence of your first paragraph. His narcissism-like traits have been evident for decades, and his mental decline is obvious at a minimum and may even be more significant than we can see. I think he has wholesale bought into his own lies of his presidential greatness. If the call really is coming from inside the house, he’s liable to set the phone down and plop down on the couch to watch some tv.
I don’t think the orange bawbag knows this. That’s not how malignant narcissism works especially with his increasing monomaniacal grandiosity enhanced by Dunning-Kruger effect.
The “shover” at Arlington Cemetery is a Libertarian from Ct. who has a history of creating controversy to increase his fame as a protester. It started with his winning a case with the help of the ACLU for waving a gun at a street corner as part of his right of “free speech.”
Check out the images at Google and the plump, goofy-faced Michael is the one. He has, apparently, wormed his way into the Trump organization in honor of his tactics. He’s been all over the place protesting about just anything that is near and dear to Libertarians.
Trump’s words of comfort after the tragedy read like Walter White’s gym speech after the airplane crash.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTBWmy65VX8
[FYI – link replaced. Double check your links before posting. /~Rayne]
After being in charge of 20 kindergarten students locked in a storage room for an hour and a half — because 2 goofballs crossed the line while hunting! My thoughts are the mentally ill kids want attention so I say put their picture on the news for only 1 day so they don’t get that attention,and this allows people with information to contact the police.A question is why doesn’t this happen in inner city schools or wealthy schools? I had a friend that retired after 10 years in a horrible area teaching high school…one of his main reasons was it was a weekly basis for him to go to funerals of his students!!! Thoughts ? And Marcy ,I have helped so many in my educational career. Still do.And should I add that I taught at an Ivy league school also ?.
[Welcome back to emptywheel. Please use the SAME USERNAME and email address each time you comment so that community members get to know you. You attempted to publish this comment as “Artdudeforever”; it has been edited to match your established username. Check your browser’s cache and autofill; future username mismatches may result in comments going unpublished. /~Rayne]
Rayne , Definitely appreciate your help , gracias! A wonderful person in mental health said years ago that funding for kids is so low that essentially the government doesn’t care …true today as 20 years ago ? Yep but maybe that will change with President Harris as at least there’s some rays of hope here .We that follow this site know the score but I’m trying to search for solutions as well all are and this is from someone that has seen unbelievable injustices personally to poor kids .
Funding was even lower when i was in high school in Georgia 60-some years ago. (I am perhaps the only person here who has been to a high school in Winder, Georgia, although not Apalachee.)
Non-existent, even.
Among problems I’ve noticed: 1. aggregating problem children. A daughter-in-law who taught middle school in NYC pointed out that her special ed classes included kids in one classroom whose ‘needs’ contradicted each other.
2. Guns that work. Like everything else, firearms are more reliable. As a reporter, it used to be common for shootings to end with a jammed gun. You hardly ever see that now.
3. Drugs other than alcohol. Drink is a depressant. The typical mass shooting when I was young was a husband/father killing his family and then himself. Often, I suspect although in those days we reporters did not inquire why, because he was unable to provide for his family.
Unemployment insurance saves lives.
4. Guns that are cheap and numerous. Recall that in 1957 West Side Story concerned violent young men armed with chains and zip guns.
I see where you are coming from! Thanks…I wanted to start a dialogue here about change and seem to be successful somewhat. Mentor to inner city kids for years and until you walk in their shoes it’s hard to understand.
“one of his main reasons was it was a weekly basis for him to go to funerals of his students!”
That would equate to 36 of his students dying per year if he doesn’t teach summer school. . That would be a shocking national story. My daughter taught at Chuck Barry’s Alma mater in the St. Louis for four years and tragically attendended two funerals. We bought plaster and paint and painted her classroom. We helped with her girls soccer team driving them to matches. Wonderful young women.
Once again I appreciate your input…I should have said he also attended teachers that were his friends students that were killed.What I learned after visiting a number of mine in hospitals and in prison is if we have limited funds as a nation…can people in the military actually assist with rebuilding communities on a large scale ? I witnessed juvenile delinquents step up incredibly well when given guidance in building storage shelters at their facility. Mentors and role models are greatly needed.within a few years after leaving a school a teacher told me 65 kids were killed within 3 years. How depressing is this. One of my favorite students – incredibly bright told me that he was 15 and didn’t believe he would love past 17. I’m sad needless to say but we need answers as we understand the problems in society.
Please, please,and please excuse any rambling or errors with math as I have had Covid 3 times from my wonderful students! In other words…I appreciate y’all+++Did you know Reagan said teachers should only receive 40 percent of their social security? I expected more from Jill Biden but have found out in certain districts they received it all….maybe off topic but many that were on strike a few years ago may not even be aware… Windfall Provision is the name…it sucks
Irony of ironies, according to his daughter, Liz, arch-conservative, George W. Bush whisperer, former VP Dick Cheney, whom Marcy knows well from having covered Scooter Libby’s trial, has decided to vote for Kamala Harris.
Marcy has a great comment:
https://bsky.app/profile/emptywheel.bsky.social/post/3l3j4j4uuax2k
Sep 6, 2024 at 3:43 PM
Ryan Reilly has a screenshot of CHENEY’s statement:
https://bsky.app/profile/ryanjreilly.bsky.social/post/3l3jcczm3n32m
Sep 6, 2024 at 5:27 PM
Whatever you might think about Dick Cheney, he pulled no punches this time.
As quoted in this CNN article:
LOL! Roger Stone was involved in both the Brooks Brothers riot and J6.
Unalloyed hypocrisy isn’t a concept for Dick, it’s a way of life.
Wow. You could say that about the entire GOP: Unalloyed hypocrisy isn’t a concept for Republicans, it’s a way of life.
I am willing to bet that before November GWB endorses Harris too.
I hate his guts. He did incalcuable damage to this country. But if he does reject Trump, like Churchill said about Stalin and making a “favourable reference to the Devil in the House of Commons” I will make a favourable reference to this endorsement.
The obstacle to GWB supporting Harris would be his loyalty to his nephew, George P. Bush (Jeb’s son,) who has been a strong Trump supporter. But Barbara Bush (GWB’s mother,) is said to have claimed to switch from Republican to Democrat at the end of her life. I wonder how Laura Bush is thinking lately.
I like to think this is William Shakespeare [of Bluesky] reacting to this news:
https://bsky.app/profile/shakespeare.bsky.social/post/3l3jn4dekxv2y
Sep 6, 2024 at 8:40 PM
Habba angrily said today after Trump’s rape appeal that Trump has never tried to rape her. Heck, I’ll bet she can even produce thousands of women he hasn’t raped.
He hires the best lawyers.
Attempting to rape your female lawyer is not generally a good look for a defendant. Habba also said that if she had a choice, she’d rather be pretty than smart. I don’t know about pretty, she sure isn’t smart.
“if she had a choice” LOL
Predestination is a concept I’m pretty sure she’s never grappled with.
Note that she didn’t bother to clarify that he’s never had consensual sex with her, either.
Reply to Bruce F Cole
September 7, 2024 at 7:57 am
Well, it appears he spends more time with her than with Melania so….
As a person who dedicated my early criminologist/statistician research-life to studying mass shootings/ers and mitigation strategies (yes, they existed pre-1996 except the targets were post offices and other places of employment), I post this comment at risk of some misinterpreting it as advocating for measures other than looking at guns and gun possession involved…. But I persist knowing some of you may serve on school boards or be involved in committees planning school design and construction, or are parents of school-aged kids.
Despite what JD Vance suggested, Apalachee High School in Winder, Georgia, WAS NOT a soft target. It was hardened. And preventative measures ‘worked’ by diminishing the number of victims shot:
1) Based on news reports, TWO school resource officers were employed by the school district/sheriff’s office and BOTH these SROs stepped in immediately, getting the shooter to surrender when they arrived. Unlike Uvalde, they were not hindered by higher ups commanding the scene, nor an instinctual fear of the gun possessed by the shooter. If there was a short delay, we have not heard any news reporting about it, but it, regardless, would pale in comparison to the devastating fail of Uvalde.
2) The “pass” system to exit the classroom means teachers are aware who has exited and when. I’m sure investigations will focus on how the student was allowed to exit without also taking the bathroom pass or saying exactly what he needed to retreive from his locker, so this procedure can be strengthened, but having the procedure in place allowed minimal free-roaming about the halls during class time, which reduced the shooter’s access to targets and reduced the number of in-classroom targets available due to number 3.
3) Automatically “locking behind the exiter” classroom doors — with WINDOWS — is what SAVED an algebra class full of 20 to 30 soft-target-desk-seated students from being targetted, but only because A FEMALE STUDENT DID WHAT SHE HAD BEEN TRAINED TO DO: look through the windows to make sure the person seeking to re-enter the classroom is indeed a safe person to open the door for. (This training is similar to what exit-seated passengers on planes are told — look out the window and do not open the exit if you see a fire). The female student who refused to open the classroom door for the gun-wielding shooter is the truest hero in this situation!
This led to deaths in the hallway, yes, but a non-human-cluttered hallway in the middle of class-time is nothing like an exceptionally easy-to-precision-target of 20 to 30 desk-seated Algebra students.
The one hardening measure not present at the school was metal detectors and bag searches, but these are much less palatable measures for parents and teachers who usually clamor for smooth entrance at the start of school days. Staggered start times per grade are ways some schools can integrate both, but it takes community buy-in to make these work.
Other measures are see through back-packs, not loved by menstruating teenage girls, and limiting heights of backpacks to shorter than the smallest assault weapon (but can be thwarted by an immovable state legislature that won’t ban collapsible assault weapon sales or limit magazine size). In addition, curious bus drivers seeing bulky backpacks might be empowered to ask questions or limit ridership if they feel something is off — another controversial policy requiring parent buy-in, of course.
My children’s middle and high schools did not allow backpacks to be seen/used except upon school entrance and exit at the end of the day — they had to be locker stored for the entire school day . . . a real pain if you picked up your child for an after-lunch-but-not-returning-back-to-school doctor appointment, but that strategy doesn’t work if you let a kid go to his locker in the middle of class to get his AR-15. (See 2 above).
Points of vulnerability we still don’t have reporting on (as far as I know): i) self-locking, non prop-openable school-building-exit doors if weapon was stored in car; ii) size/collapsibility of weapon, iii) where/how gun was stored before retrieved by student, iv) exact nature of contacts with GA child services and how this troubled teen with known troubled home life slipped through the cracks, and v) the stupidity of a father gifting his son for Christmas an AR-15 style weapon 7 months after police question him and his son over the 13-year-old’s posts on social media threatening to shoot up his middle school. In addition (vi), it appears (lack of “attachment” and “committment’ — Hirschi concepts — to school demonstrated by) persistent unmitigated truancy of the troubled teen appears to have played a role here too, an ongoing and persistent problem, nation-wide, since the pandemic.
Last, I urge all parents to either take a class or become knowledgable about what is taught in research-based mass shooter “victim mitigation” classes, as irritating as this idea might be, and to review these skills with your students/children at fall and winter school start periods. And, please use your school open house visits to visually scan to see what a school and its classrooms have in place to mitigate casualties.
My oldest daughter who sponsored and took the course as a university RA taught me several things to look for and do when I began law school at the start of my 2nd career. For example, because they did not exist, I personally posted on each classroom bulletin board at the front of each room, a large handmade sign noting each classroom number and the name and driving address of the building the classroom was located in — an essential piece of information any in-classroom caller needs to relay to first responders if injured victims, or God forbid, the shooter himself, are inside. This also helps larger first responder triage teams to know which rooms can be initially skipped when searching for shooting victims (if callers report their room number to have been spared).
Yes, it is insane I typed the word “school” and “mitigate casualties” within 8 words of each other. INSANE!
Dear tje. Your insights and efforts spoke to me .What solutions do you offer as I stated a few of mine previously.Are we at the point where starting in middle school a class requirement should be sessions where students can discuss anything hopefully to make the isolated kids feel a part ? I always tried to be encouraging to those that felt like outsiders and every teacher that I met would give up their life in an instant for their students,at least I hope so .just want your insights in how this can stop as I care deeply. Thanks .
Maybe Noble C, Bruce, Harry & Harpie –
A)
Because my research involved a pre-1996 time frame (we started with the U of Tx tower shootings in the 1960s) — before the internet having search engines or well-designed, navagable web pages, we were limited to hand-searching for news reports about shootings and coding data from these reports into a large data base. News reports on shootings back then tended to have minimal data about shooters, other than an occasional mention of a mental health history or previous firing by employers.
And until Harry Eager mentioned it, I had not thought about this much: we only had 2 schools in our sample — both colleges, and had no teenagers and very few shooters, if any, in their 20s. (Harry asked why this phenomena stopped happening at post offices/places of employment and mainly (?) moved to secondary schools).
The very limited insights that my research found about the shooters themselves — that they have as much time as they please and their committing suicide is usually how these shootings end — was addressed and incorporated into police responses & training after Columbine in 1999, when “set up a perimeter” law enforcement response led to the needless deaths of more students from being shot or bleeding out after police were on scene but not yet inside the school.
Best-practices in law enforcement today dictates: EARLY INTERVENTION + early interception and disarming the shooter saves lives. The hesitation of an SRO in Parkland, and the inexcusable delays at Uvalde which were opposite of the training officers received, have reinforced this take-home from my early research. Today, fewer and fewer of these events end by voluntary actions of the shooters — interveners of both police and bystanders are now responsible for many of these endings where we had virtually none in our sample.
My point is, I don’t have insights to the shooters, themselves, from this research, per say. So, Noble C – your question would be more aptly answered by a psychologist perhaps, as criminologists tend to focus on a) lack of hardened target (discussed in my comment above). + b) opportunity & means (access to tools) + c) incentive (motivated offender). You are really asking about the last, a more personal- or micro- focus, which my mass shooter study did not have.
However, my newer research in the area of law and policy focusses on law enforcement qualified immunity, encouraging and legally protecting whistleblowers, and implementing crew resource management into law enforcment (including prosecutor) might have some insights for Noble C (see in Section C below).
Thank you, tje, both for that highly informed rundown and for the work you’ve done in that field.
What an utter shame that it’s a necessity; we are all hostages to the gun industry here.
Another sickening sidebar: “only” 4 killed and 9 injured can be legitimately considered a qualified success..
My current research on how implementing laws (or policies) changes behavior, if at all, offers some insights to Harry’s question and Bruce’s observation, but it may not make readers happy to read.
B) Opportunity and Means: Why now teen shooters and teen targets? Simplified answer: Supply and demand.
The EXPIRATION of the federal assault weapons ban in 2004, or it being put into place in the first place in 1994, depending on how you personally view guns, led to the explosion in popularity of AR-15 style guns and the post-2004 ballooning of the manufacture, sale, and ownership of these distinct-looking semiautomatic long guns. This has undoubtedly led to more teens having access to these type of weapons at home. Many states do not have safe storage laws and those that do have many loopholes. Crudely put: increased supply.
Second, teens are perpetually online and have ready access to reinforcement of their wayward feelings and emotions, ridicule from peers, and ways to research “heros” or “anti-heroes” who offer solutions, including the most perverse, to their troubled lives. And reinforced perverse fascination with gun-shootup-culture incentivizes troubled teens to explore their parents’ weapon supply or to buy their own. Crudely put: increased demand.
These two things can likely explain some of the shift in location of these crimes and age of offenders (if the shift is indeed real and not just what we perceive based on our anecdotal access to news reports) from workplace to schoolhouse.
Because confiscation of smart phones and legal long guns in homes would never be implemented in this country, for 1st and 2nd amendment reasons, Noble C is completely correct to focus on how we can reach these troubled kids. And because my research into encouraging and protecting whistleblowers involves researching how certain values embedded early in life affect later adult behavior, I’ve studied parenting, and any parenting strategy I mention below offers insights on how a teacher, caring neighbor, or a parent of a child’s friend who visits often could also reach other’s children, I think.
Wow. I join others with my deep appreciation
and grateful THANKS for your comment, TJE.
Post office workers have stopped going postal. Why?
The first mass shooting that occurred where I was reporting involved a Bible-crazed mental case who was driven to clean out a den of iniquity in a saloon. Indeed, all his half dozen victims had long rap sheets.
I presume that organic mental disease does not vary from generation to generation, but its expression is culturally formed. We have made school shootings a cultural norm.
Maybe Noble C, Bruce, Harry & Harpie –
Because my research involved a pre-1996 time frame (we started with the U of Tx tower shootings in the 1960s) — before the internet having search engines or well-designed, navagable web pages, we were limited to hand-searching for news reports about shootings and coding data from these reports into a large data base. News reports on shootings back then tended to have minimal data about shooters, other than an occasional mention of a mental health history or previous firing by employers.
And until Harry Eager mentioned it, I had not thought about this much: we only had 2 schools in our sample — both colleges, and had no teenagers and very few shooters, if any, in their 20s. (Harry asked why this phenomena stopped happening at post offices/places of employment and mainly (?) moved to secondary schools).
The very limited insights that my research found about the shooters themselves — that they have as much time as they please and their committing suicide is usually how these shootings end — was addressed and incorporated into police responses & training after Columbine in 1999, when “set up a perimeter” law enforcement response led to the needless deaths of more students from being shot or bleeding out after police were on scene but not yet inside the school.
Best-practices in law enforcement today dictates: EARLY INTERVENTION + early interception and disarming the shooter saves lives. The hesitation of an SRO in Parkland, and the inexcusable delays at Uvalde which were opposite of the training officers received, have reinforced this take-home from my early research. Today, fewer and fewer of these events end by voluntary actions of the shooters — interveners of both police and bystanders are now responsible for many of these endings where we had virtually none in our sample.
My point is, I don’t have insights to the shooters, themselves, from this research, per say. So, Noble C – your question would be more aptly answered by a psychologist perhaps, as criminologists tend to focus on a) lack of hardened target (discussed in my comment above). + b) opportunity & means (access to tools) + c) incentive (motivated offender). You are really asking about the last, a more personal- or micro- focus, which my mass shooter study did not have.
However, my newer research in the area of law and policy focusses on law enforcement qualified immunity, encouraging and legally protecting whistleblowers, and implementing crew resource management into law enforcment (including prosecutor) might have some insights for Noble C (see in Section C below).
…because my research into encouraging and protecting whistleblowers involves researching how certain values embedded early in life affect later adult behavior, I’ve studied parenting, and any parenting strategy I mention below offers insights on how a teacher, caring neighbor, or a parent of a child’s friend who visits often could also reach other’s children, I think.
C) Un-motivating the motivated offender: Reaching troubled children and potentially preventing future tragedies.
We need to encourage parent education in non-authoritarian (punitive) forms of parenting or those that focus on behavioral adjustment or “misbehavior,” and make yourself an active part in a movement I’ll call “all villagers lifting up all kids, based on the unique talents and gifts each child possesses,” whether the child is yours or a strangers. This approach is CHILD, relationship, or “humanity” focussed.
Children learn to become bullies themselves at home by parents who bully their children through authoritarian parenting and its primary tool: negative, non-natural-consequence-based, punitive punishment. Dismissive or highly permissive or at worse — neglectful — parenting can do the same.
However, so-called ‘Attachment Parenting‘, ‘Parent Effectiveness Training’ or PET, (and its equivalent for teachers, called ‘Teacher Effectiveness Training‘ or TET) are grounded in solid multi-faceted research, and offer a different way to view kids’ behavior and choices and how to intervene, when necessary. Not surprising, both focus on expressing empathy toward and teaching empathy to children — something that is even easier to teach if demonstrated by adult role models in our personal lives, neighborhoods, churches, communities, and country.
No way to prevent this says the only nation on earth where this regularly happens. (h/t The Onion)
Republicans: (Oh well…) Thought and prayers. Move on everybody.
JD Prance aka “Mr. Mascara” tried to say he was taken out of context. The exact quote is cited above.
It’s insane that military-grade weapons are allowed to be legally purchased by ordinary citizens.
Conservatives argue that AR15s don’t kill, people do. That argument conveniently leaves out the fact that the AR15 facilitate the killings.
By the same reasoning: Covid didn’t kill 1.1 million Americans, pro-life MAGA antivaxers did.
Sincere condolences for the courageous survivors of the terrible mass shooting in Winder, Georgia’s Apalachee High School. Are their federal and state lawmakers doing enough to reduce tragic gun incidents (gun homicides, gun suicides, unintentional gun deaths) sadly taking the lives of Winder children, women, and men?
Note Georgia perennially suffers from a gun suicide rate worse than the overall firearm suicide rate in the United States; and Barrow County, in which Winder is situated, sadly has had a significantly worse gun suicide rate than the poor statewide rate in GA (see Educational Fund to Stop Gun Violence data). Also, Georgia unfortunately suffers from one of the worst firearm mortality rates in the country (see United States CDC data). Gun violence costs Georgia a grotesque $23.9 billion each year, of which $597.8 million is paid by Peach State taxpayers (see Everytown for Gun Safety’s EveryStat data). At least one corporate gun manufacturer of dangerous assault-style rifles in Georgia (located in Black Creek) has engaged in grossly irresponsible marketing practices by implying that its products are suitable for use by civilians in offensive, combat-like missions and by appealing particularly to teenage boys who are attracted to violence (see Everytown Law).
Is U.S. Rep. Mike Collins (R-GA-10) doing enough to protect the health and safety of the good people in Winder?
At the state level, lawmakers and policymakers in Georgia would do well to: (1) enact a strong safe storage law, (2) strengthen protections for victims of domestic violence and hates crimes, (3) repeal permitless carry law, (4) invest in community violence intervention programs, (5) enact universal background checks through gun owner licensing.
Is Georgia State Rep. Chuck Efstration (R-Auburn-104th District) doing enough to protect the health and safety of the good people in Winder? Note he is also the Republican-controlled Georgia House of Representatives’ Majority Leader.
Is Georgia State Sen. Bill Cowsert (R-Athens-46th District) doing enough to protect the health and safety of the good people in Winder?
Winder, Georgia residents deserve responsible legislation and policies to reduce tragic gun deaths and injuries.
GOP has encouraged proliferation of assault weapons and now they have a forever candidate winking & nodding at political violence in response to his political losses. I think I’ve got two of the dots