Speaker Mike Johnson Demands Better Treatment for Israel’s Prime Minister Than Given the President of the United States

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Ahead of Bibi Netanyahu’s address to Congress, much of the attention has focused on those — starting with Vice President Harris — who will not attend. Speaker Emerita Pelosi is one of a growing number of Democrats who will instead meet with the families of those still held hostage by Hamas.

Right wingers are trying to make a big stink out of Democrats’ decision not to attend an address by a guy accused of war crimes who openly sides with Republicans (I’ve altered this cover slightly).

What has gone unmentioned, however, is that Speaker Mike Johnson sent out a letter ordering members and their guests to maintain decorum.

In the interests of all involved, we will enforce a zero-tolerance policy for disturbances in the building.

All Members should kindly inform their guests that any disruption of the proceedings of the House is a violation of the rules and may subject the offenders to prosecution. If any disturbance does occur, the Sergeant at Arms and Capitol Police will remove the offending visitor(s) from the gallery and subject them to arrest.

As Members, it is incumbent upon us all to likewise model respect and proper decorum as representatives of the American people and our institution, and as ambassadors of the United States on the world stage.

This is, of course, greater reverence than Republicans have offered of late to Democratic Presidents, most recently when Marjorie Taylor Greene interrupted President Biden’s State of the Union.

It’s not Israel that has been left behind, Speaker Mike.

136 replies
  1. CaptainCondorcet says:

    The Post isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on most of the time, so i enjoyed the not-so-friendly amendment to its title. I will say, with absolutely no love towards the Speaker, that my parents always tolerated more when it was just us in the house, but best believe I would be in serious trouble if I acted up when guests were over. Do I think it’s silly to maintain a “don’t air your dirty laundry” attitude in the age of attack ads and the Internet? Yes. But it’s very easy to believe he’s just doing this from his typical outdated pseudo-genteel background.

    • Amicus12 says:

      I suspect the Speaker’s diktat has more to do with the role of Israel and Jerusalem in dispensationalist theology than it does with a general concern over the hospitable treatment of guests.

      • Clare Kelly says:

        Speaking of ‘dirty laundry’:

        “Netanyahus said to bring suitcases of laundry from Israel to wash at White House

        PM denies ‘recycled’ rumors after Washington Post reports he and wife Sara repeatedly brought soiled clothes to be laundered, dry cleaned when staying at US president’s guesthouse”

        Times of Israel
        September 24, 2020
        https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahus-said-to-bring-suitcases-of-laundry-when-staying-as-white-house-guests/

        He’s staying at a DC hotel this time.

        He can air his dirty laundry at Mar-a-Lago on Friday.

        • Rayne says:

          WTAF bringing laundry to the US is totally wackadoodle on the face of it. Was it a test of some sort?

        • boatgeek says:

          To Rayne at 12:06pm: I’m guessing it’s a fairly standard FU to make it known to the host country that you are not above petty shit and you’re pissed at them. And typical of people in power, it takes their spite out on the service workers who can’t say a thing.

        • Rayne says:

          I think given the timing it was less a statement of anger and more a statement like “You’re my bitch, bitch, I own you. Now handle my soil.”

          And yes, service workers bear the brunt as always. I’d love to hear more from service workers about what transpired during Trump’s administration though they were likely cowed by NDAs.

    • Yohei1972 says:

      Speaking of the Post… Just came across an op-ed from a couple weeks ago with the headline, “America may soon be subjected to the country’s first DEI president: Kamala Harris.” The paper’s rightism has gotten even more crudely bigoted since they decided to embrace Trump (about when he became the GOP front runner in 2016).

  2. Cheez Whiz says:

    This new focus on decorum is interesting. First, the “order” from “Republican leaders” (h/t politico) to Congress to lay off the DEI angle and focus on her policies, now Mike telling the back benchers and theirs friends to behave. The few actual pros left in the party have finally noticed the road show isn’t going so well.

    • CaptainCondorcet says:

      The Speaker comes from a place where if two (cis, straight, white) men are talking, “Bless your heart” is an insult and “Bless your kind heart” can cause fights. I do wonder if these seemingly linked actions are an odd form of him consolidating power among a now more scared caucus.

    • Peterr says:

      Mike isn’t writing to his backbenchers here. He’s taking aim at The Squad and others who believe that those starving and dying in Gaza thanks to Bibi are as worthy of concern and protection as Israelis being held by Hamas. He’s looking to pwn the libs, not worried about decorum.

      As Marcy noted, the fact that the speaker never held his own members to account at the State of the Union is kind of a tell.

      • Frank Anon says:

        I think Johnson knows his owners are watching and wants to make sure they are thrilled with his good work. I think the ownership, be it Miriam Adelson or Harlan Crow, wants Bibi to be treated real good

  3. allan_in_upstate says:

    I’m old enough to remember Joe Wilson shouting “You lie!” at Obama during the SOTU.

  4. Clare Kelly says:

    “Sen. JD Vance (R-Ohio), the GOP nominee for vice president, won’t be attending Netanyahu’s speech either, due to a campaign event.

    “Senator Vance stands steadfastly with the people of Israel in their fight to defend their homeland, eradicate terrorist threats, and bring back their countrymen held hostage,” Jason Miller, senior adviser to the Trump campaign, said.

    “He will not however be in attendance for Prime Minister Netanyahu’s speech to Congress as he has duties to fulfill as the Republican nominee for Vice President.””

    https://www.politico.com/newsletters/inside-congress/2024/07/23/breaking-down-the-netanyahu-speech-no-shows-00170731

  5. Amateur Lawyer At Work says:

    Mike Johnson did a great service by creating a template letter for Speaker Jeffries to re-issue in the future.

  6. Sussex Trafalgar says:

    Vladimir Putin, killer and criminal, Semion Mogilevich, criminal, Roman Abramovich, criminal, Oleg Deripaska, criminal, Dmytro Firtash, criminal, Trump, criminal and financially controlled by Putin and Abramovich, Netanyahu, criminal, and Speaker Mike Johnson, financially controlled by Trump.

    This is only partial list of the members of the Putin organized crime syndicate.

    And, unfortunately, there are too many US based law firms and attorneys, both Republican, Democrat and Independent attorneys—like Joe diGenova, Victoria Toensing and Lanny Davis to name three—who aid and abet these criminals
    while hiding behind the plausible deniability inherent in their license to practice law.

    I view Netanyahu’s speech today in the House of Representatives as a highly visible forum for the Putin led crime syndicate to further its objective to support Trump’s effort to win the presidential election to avoid Trump being convicted in the J-6 case against him, the Mar-a-Lago doc case, the Georgia interfere case and any other criminal acts Trump committed that have not yet been made public.

  7. Matt Foley says:

    MAGA Mike calls for decorum. I guess this means no more locker room talk, lies, insults, or threats from orange jesus. Bless your little heart, Mikey.

      • Matt Foley says:

        Remember when James Comer enforced the rule against “engaging in personalities” after MTG refused to apologize for insulting Jasmine Crockett’s reading ability? Me neither.

        • LaMissy! says:

          Or when Jim McGovern was silenced for the rest of the day for reading a list of Trump’s crimes?

      • Matt Foley says:

        Remember when Repubs supported Judge Merchan enforcing order in his courtroom during Trump’s trial? Me neither.

        • Spencer Dawkins says:

          Yeah, for these guys, “speech and debate” immunity means “license to say anything anywhere”.

  8. Fancy Chicken says:

    Seems to me that the simple fact that Bibi is going to court Trump at Mar-a-Lago, not even some nominally neutral place or even AIPAC offices, absolutely gives Democrats a sound, legitimate reason not to attend his speech.

    If Bibi really wanted to appeal to our government he would at least make the effort to appear neutral during his visit. His refusal to do so clearly falls into the bucket of campaign activity and every Democrat should refuse to attend his speech. There are other ways to show public support for Israel.

  9. jdmckay8 says:

    Thx. Almost makes me think ‘da Squeeker… errr, Speaker, is actually representing foreign ideologies determined to undermine basic Freedom, Democracy and DECENCY principles in America. Makes me wonder if “invasion at the southern border” is just a distraction to speed dial in undercover MAGA(s) like Bibi through the back door. Almost seems like an underground railroad.

  10. cruxdaemon says:

    I’m curious what Johnson supposes to charge disruptors with since SCOTUS says that the law criminalizing obstructing an official proceeding pertains only to documents because and=or? I’m sure that was just situational depending on the politics of the defendant though. That’s probably what he’s counting on.

  11. harpie says:

    It seems that right now, the Capitol Police have a lot more back-up
    for NETANYAHU’s BS today than they did for TRUMP’s insurrection on 1/6/21.

  12. bloopie2 says:

    My reaction: the Republicans really are slime.

    And thinking that, I was reminded of the stirring poem “I will Not Go Back” by Milton Geiger, which I first encountered back in high school, and which ends something like this:

    But I have traveled this far:
    I have set my instruments upon a promise…
    Out of the mists of time,
    Out of the ooze and slime,
    Out of the dreadful morning,
    Out of the speechless dawning of the earth
    I came,
    And I will not go back!

    That’s the chant Harris led at her Milwaukee campaign rally – “We are not going back”.

    You picked a good one, Kamala.

  13. Clare Kelly says:

    Replying to boatgeek
    July 24, 2024 at 12:41 pm
    To Rayne at 12:06pm: “I’m guessing it’s a fairly standard FU to make it known to the host country that you are not above petty shit and you’re pissed at them.”

    Maybe, though I’ve never heard of anyone else doing it. Trump occupied the WH the last time It was reported.

    I could see an ‘I own you’ message though.

    Perhaps he’s just cheap and crass.

    • boatgeek says:

      Cheap, crass, and vindictive pretty much defines Netanyahu. Maybe it is only him–it would be typical of him to invent something that petty.

    • Clare Kelly says:

      I concur, particularly when the “invitation” to speak was not organic.

      (Though I no longer have a NYTimes subscription.)

  17. harpie says:

    https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/07/24/world/israel-gaza-war-hamas-netanyahu/5e660320-bdcf-5368-999f-9009ee6cf643 July 24, 2024, 1:50 p.m. ET

    A block from the Capitol, officers in riot gear have begun using pepper spray and detaining protesters.

    July 24, 2024, 1:53 p.m. ET
    There are hundreds of protesters carrying Palestinian flags marching up Louisiana Ave on the north side of the Capitol. Dozens of police vehicles have scrambled with lights and sirens to try to block off their procession. Officers with riot gear have been positioned there.

    July 24, 2024, 1:55 p.m. ET
    U.S. Capitol Police say that protests have turned violent at the corner of First Street and Constitution Avenue Northwest. “The crowd failed to obey our order to move back from our police line. We are deploying pepper spray towards anyone trying to break the law and cross that line,” the authorities said in a statement.

    • harpie says:

      https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/07/24/world/israel-gaza-war-hamas-netanyahu/06b33f8b-9cf9-5184-902e-689cd52f7326 July 24, 2024, 2:02 p.m. ET

      Netanyahu’s wife, Sara, is briefly shown on the screen as she greets a former hostage, Noa Argamani. Argamani was recently freed in a rescue operation in Gaza. She has been criticized by Netanyahu’s opponents in Israel for joining his trip to Washington because, they argue, her presence legitimizes an unpopular prime minister.

      2:05 p.m. ET
      Prime Minister Netanyahu has entered the House chamber.

      2:05 p.m. ET
      Representative Rashida Tlaib stays seated and does not clap as the floor erupts in cheers from the Republican side as Netanyahu enters the chamber. Nadler and other Democrats, who have eviscerated Netanyahu and said they are only attending because they support the state of Israel, are not applauding as he makes his way to the rostrum.

      Natanyahu is making his way down the aisle like a president on the way to the State of the Union — shaking hands, but walking past Chuck Schumer, the Senate leader, who called for him to step aside.

    • harpie says:

      https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/07/24/world/israel-gaza-war-hamas-netanyahu/f09a26b2-2da8-5103-9164-1348581447fa [2:33 PM]

      Netanyahu attacks the protesters on the streets outside the Capitol: “For all we know, Iran is funding the anti-Israel protests that are going on right now, outside this building,” Netanyahu says.

      Netanyahu gets his biggest cheers calling the protesters, “Tehran’s useful idiots.”

      2:33 PM
      Netanyahu highlights a recent statement by Avril D. Haines, the director of national intelligence, that Iran stoked the anti-Israel campus protests. Haines’s statement said that the United States has “observed actors tied to Iran’s government posing as activists online, seeking to encourage protests, and even providing financial support to protesters.”

      • earlofhuntingdon says:

        Netanyahu’s rendering of world events is a tad less accurate than Donald Trump’s, though he has a much better global PR organization trying to convince people otherwise.

        • velcroman says:

          I am disgusted by Netanyahu, as is most of the Israeli population. However, would you mind providing specifics on his “inaccuracies”?

    • harpie says:

      https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/07/24/world/israel-gaza-war-hamas-netanyahu/0e37eb36-bf71-5c91-aa1f-613c78cabea4 [2:43 PM]

      Netanyahu’s claim that Iran is paying Americans protesting Israel’s conduct in Gaza is unsubstantiated. While Iran’s leaders, including the supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, have spoken in support of campus protesters and encouraged them, there is no evidence that Iran is paying them. American economic sanctions including banking and transfers of money make payments from Iran to the United States extremely difficult.

      2:43 PM
      Netanyahu says the ratio of civilian casualties is the lowest in Rafah. What he did not highlight is that before the operation began, the United States put immense pressure on Israel to provide humanitarian corridors to allow residents to leave.

      2:47 PM
      A lot of Netanyahu’s lines, like the attack on the International Criminal Court, echo what many Republicans including Speaker Mike Johnson have said in recent weeks — highlighting how some American conservatives are in lockstep with Netanyahu.

      • Matt Foley says:

        “Low civilian casualty rate.” Gee, where have I heard that before? Ah, yes: “High survival rate! Personal choice! Liberty over safety!”

        • velcroman says:

          As far as the low civilian casualty rate, a rate of zero is not realistic.
          The appropriate measure is comparison to other modern militaries fighting urban or subterranean combat with historical levels of human shields.
          See John Spencer, who is a world expert of such combat at West Point.
          https://www.newsweek.com/israel-has-created-new-standard-urban-warfare-why-will-no-one-admit-it-opinion-1883286
          Lots more where that came from.
          TL;DR The civilian to combatant casualty ratio in Gaza is between 1:1 and 1.5:1. Historically it is up to 9:1.

          We don’t really know the ratio in Gaza because:
          -Hamas is the only source of numbers
          -40% of their numbers came from self-reported Google forms, which included missing people
          -They don’t report *any* combatant deaths, just lumping in Al-Qassam with civilians, which the media just reports as deaths in Gaza. This also includes deaths from rockets fired from Gaza which land in Gaza, and any deaths caused by Hamas.

        • earlofhuntingdon says:

          “Low civilian casualty rate?” LOL. Zero collateral damage is a straw man. A 10:1 ratio, otoh, is intentional, not collateral or unintended.

    • harpie says:

      Michael Crowley:
      https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/07/24/world/israel-gaza-war-hamas-netanyahu/c1243721-8832-5e06-9298-d183fbd00567 [2:53 PM]

      Whatever one thinks of his views, Netanyahu’s fluent, colloquial English and rhetorical razzmatazz is a huge asset. Volodymyr Zelensky would kill to deliver a speech that sings like this.

      Netanyahu makes perhaps his most efffective argument for unfettered U.S. arms deliveries: “Give us the tools faster, and we’ll finish the job faster.”

      David Sanger [2:55 PM]:

      Netanyahu’s “Give us the tools faster, and we’ll finish the job faster” was an oblique shot at the administration. He sidesteps the question of the civilian casualties caused by some of those weapons.

      • Clare Kelly says:

        Comparing Netanyahu with President Zelenskyy is…breathtaking.

        One is defending his country from an aggressive and brutal foreign invasion, the other is awaiting warrants from the ICC for his part in war crimes.

        • velcroman says:

          “One is defending his country from an aggressive and brutal foreign invasion”

          I am certain you are aware of an attack of 3000 armed men sent by the government of Gaza to kill Israeli civilians on Israeli territory – an attack equal to about thirteen 9/11s. And the thousands of rockets launched before and after at civilian targets.

        • Rayne says:

          So basically killing a ratio of +10 Gaza civilians for each Israeli killed is a just a starting point; destroying more than half of Gaza’s buildings and most of its hospitals isn’t near enough.

          And these chaps who had the nerve to attempt to feed starving civilians had it coming to them.

          Got it. I guess you really did learn nothing constructive from the US’s response post-9/11.

        • velcroman says:

          Rayne,
          You did not address the point of my comment. Israel was, in fact, defending themselves from an aggressive and brutal invasion. You may not agree with the level of response, and you may think the aggressive and brutal invasion was justified, but you can not deny that fact.

          The ratio of Israelis killed to Gazans is not how it works. The ratio of Gazan civilians killed to Hamas fighters is how it works, and Israel is doing better than other modern armies in similar situations.https://www.newsweek.com/israel-has-created-new-standard-urban-warfare-why-will-no-one-admit-it-opinion-1883286

          If you insist no Gazan civilians be killed, then you have to insist that Israel stop trying to eliminate Hamas, and Israel live with the threat of many October 7s, as Hamas has promised. Or maybe insist that Hamas stop using civilians as human shields.

          You neglect to mention that there are thousands of aid workers operating in Israel, with IDF protection. 7 died in this accident. It happens in war, at night (take your picture of the roof at night if you want it to be relevant, from a moving drone, when the car is moving, with limited resolution). There were gunmen at the warehouse that the car left from, and it looked like a gun was carried to the car. It was a bag, but the soldiers working the drone made a mistake. Israel admitted their mistake, and took action. You may think the action was insufficient, but they admitted it. They admit that the strike violated their rules of engagement.

        • Rayne says:

          “Israel was, in fact, defending themselves from an aggressive and brutal invasion.”

          Get the fuck out with that bad faith argument. Nobody from the double-fenced pen called Gaza invaded Israel.

          You might get away with this DARVO-ish delusion if we couldn’t see it from outer space.

          You might get away with the bullshit you’re trying to pawn off about humanitarian aid workers being killed but it has happened repeatedly and without any obvious, overt effort to stem the persistent murders-by-intelligence-failures while providing necessary humanitarian aid to civilians.

        • Matt Foley says:

          velcroman,
          Where are you getting your “equivalent to thirteen 9/11s” from? Oct. 7 attack killed 1139 Israelis, or less than half the 3000 killed on 9/11.

        • velcroman says:

          Rayne,

          “Nobody from the double-fenced pen called Gaza invaded Israel.”
          Well, what do you call it when the government of Gaza sends thousands of armed people from Gaza to Israeli territory with the express goal of killing Jews?
          I really want to know what you call it other than an invasion.
          Or are you claiming that October 7 never happened?

          I understand your anger at the situation. But you have not addressed any facts, just called my arguments “bad faith”, “delusional” and “bullshit” without providing any evidence other than the fact that Israel is evacuating Rafah before invading. Which is what you are supposed to do with civilians before attacking a military target.

          Matt Foley,

          The casualties are scaled to the population. The numbers I see are around 1200 deaths on October 7. Israel’s population is 9.84 M. 9/11 was 3000 deaths, and the population in 2001 was 285M.
          1200/9.84=122 deaths/M. 3000/285=10.5 deaths/M. 122/10.5=11.6

          Sorry, twelve 9/11s.

      • Just Some Guy says:

        “Whatever one thinks of his views, Netanyahu’s fluent, colloquial English and rhetorical razzmatazz is a huge asset. Volodymyr Zelensky would kill to deliver a speech that sings like this.”

        What a thoroughly disgusting sentiment.

        • Rayne says:

          Netanyahu out-entertained the seasoned, successful producer of entertainment.

          Out-acted an actor.

          And yet Netanyahu is unable to be a statesman.

        • harpie says:

          NETANYAHU’s argument and ZELENSKY’s argument are exactly the same!

          “Give us the tools faster, and we’ll finish the job faster”

          But TRUMP / JOHNSON MAGA’s only care about one of those arguments.

        • Rayne says:

          Reply to harpie
          July 24, 2024 at 4:11 pm

          Sure, apart from Zelensky fighting off a much larger adversary which illegally invaded it repeatedly, committed war crimes and genocide against Ukraine, while Netanyahu is asking for aid and greenlight for committing ethnic cleansing and genocide against a smaller state it refuses to recognize.

      • Matt Foley says:

        “Give us the tools to lessen COVID deaths and we’ll refuse to use them.”
        –MAGA pro lifers

      • Matt Foley says:

        “Give us the tools for most school shootings and we’ll complain you’re taking away our tools for school shootings.”
        –MAGA pro lifers

    • harpie says:

      David Sanger:
      https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/07/24/world/israel-gaza-war-hamas-netanyahu/561f8b15-d32c-5c7e-a51a-60dd5f730ac0 [2:55 PM]

      Netanyahu’s statement that for the time being Israel must retain “overriding security control” of Gaza gets to one of the points of difference with the Biden adminsitration. Just last week, Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken told a crowd in Aspen, Colo., that Hamas or Israeli control over Gaza was “unacceptable.”

    • harpie says:

      https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/07/24/world/israel-gaza-war-hamas-netanyahu/9a5e8119-ad53-5813-bd7d-fbb3b466f345 [2:59 PM]

      Netanyahu praises the 14-nation coalition that shot down Iranian missiles headed to Israel, thanking President Biden for bringing it together. Now he is speaking of turning that group into a broader alliance, building on the Trump-era Abraham Acccords. And he turns that to praise of Trump himself, including for moving the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem from Tel Aviv.

      In a clear reflection of U.S. electoral realities, Netanyahu lavishes praise on Donald Trump.

      3:01 PM
      This section of the speech, loaded with praise for both President Biden and former President Trump, may be in hopes of greasing the wheels of his scheduled meetings with the two men in the coming days.

    • harpie says:

      This comment got held up in the pokey and should be at the beginning of my thread on NETANYAHU’s speech.

    • earlofhuntingdon says:

      Specious rhetoric. Not hard to make a promise like, “We will win,” when you’ve already won, having wielded overwhelming superiority since day one.

  20. harpie says:

    https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/07/24/world/israel-gaza-war-hamas-netanyahu/2dcb2d57-a103-5287-804f-553f25373025 [3 minutes ago]

    Disruptions in the gallery have begun. People in yellow shirts with red lettering are being removed from the gallery above the House floor. It is unclear from where I am sitting what their shirts say.

    [2:22pm]
    Additional protesters have been arrested after silently demonstrating in the gallery, their shirts have “Seal The Deal Now” printed on them

    • jdmckay8 says:

      I’ve watched whole thing on MSNBC. They haven’t shown any of that.

      The speech is about what I expected. Very rah rah for the greatness of Israel and black and white comparison to Hamas. But nothing at all in the way of solutions. Also now talking about Hamas and Iran working in US, amongst protesters, to make them “Iran’s useful idiots”. Also going after “gays for Gaza.”

      IMO a lot of very dangerous rhetoric.

      • Spencer Dawkins says:

        Also going after “gays for Gaza.”

        WTAF? is there no right nut job who can speak publicly about any subject without smacking at the LGBTQIA+ community? He’s already called out the protesters. Why does he need to point to the GAY protesters?

        Is he running for office in Texas?

        • jdmckay8 says:

          There was a lot of dangerous, Nationalistic rhetoric in his address. The repubs loved it, applauded like it was an encore to a rock concert. I think he’s darkly diabolical. A far more polished version of Trump/Maga.

        • jdmckay8 says:

          Good article with comments from Merav Michaeli wrt current Gaza mess.

          short snippet:

          The leader of Israel’s Labour Party Merav Michaeli said Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is the main obstacle to peace, accusing him of building a right-wing propaganda network that had “brainwashed” Israelis and made any deal with the Palestinians extremely difficult.

          (snip)

          Speaking of Mr Netanyahu, in an interview with The National Ms Michaeli said: “He’s been the main obstacle to peace, for sure, and he certainly has prevented peace or any political solution in all of his years in politics.

          This, while I’m watching Maya Wiley & Jonathan Capehart discussing with Nicole Wallace the “DEI” slurs towards Kamala the last 24 hours. I’ve never seen Maya that angry. And implicit in this (and everything going on with Kamala and our politics) is all these people’s utter determination to not go back… as MAGA/Project 25 want. Capehart right now saying when this kind of meanness takes root, it cause corrosion of the soul. Very choice words.

          This is the kind of depth into these things I’m so pleased to see. It cuts through frothy MAGA rhetoric very, very effectively. That’s been missing.

          Would have to be blind to not see the almost partnership, or alignment of ideology between Trump/MAGA & Bibi and their right wing religious zealots. Its eerie.

          Or put another way, Gaza in real time is an apt metaphor for what could happen here if Trump/Project 25 grows roots.

        • Rayne says:

          “Yet there are gay groups that support Gaza and oppose Israel.”

          That’s a broad brush putting words in people’s mouths. Point to where the gays who support Gazans are wholly anti-Israeli and not anti-Netanyahu or anti-genocide or anti-apartheid. Gays here in the US do understand what it’s like to be suppressed and they know who’s responsible, speaking of nuance.

        • velcroman says:

          Rayne wrote:
          ” Point to where the gays who support Gazans are wholly anti-Israeli and not anti-Netanyahu or anti-genocide or anti-apartheid. ”

          https://quitpalestine.org/contact/
          Zionism =racism
          right of return of 6 million Palestinians to Israel, population 10 million
          No military aid to Israel, so Hezbollah, Houtis and Syria can attack Israel
          Total boycott of Israeli products – not products from West Bank, or any subtlety – Israeli products.
          That is anti-Israel.

          How do you define anti-Israel?

      • jdmckay8 says:

        Nadler’s talking on MSNBC. Says he thinks Netanyahu believes its in his interest to prolong assault on Gaza to avoid inquiries into questionable delays in the PM’s response to Oct 7.

        He also said something I did not know, that Bibi was leading chants to a crowd, saying “Kill Rabin”, just hours before he was assassinated.

        • Rayne says:

          Funny you should mention Ben Gvir.

          A Key Netanyahu Coalition Partner Says Trump Best for Israel
          Israeli far-right cabinet member Itamar Ben Gvir took the unusual step of endorsing Donald Trump as the next US president, saying a return of the ex-leader would bolster the chances of victory against Iran’s allied militant groups and the Islamic Republic itself.
          Bloomberg
          Published 25 Jul 2024, 12:15 AM IST

        • jdmckay8 says:

          From Clare’s link:

          In the weeks before the assassination, Netanyahu, then head of the opposition, and other senior Likud members attended a right-wing political rally in Jerusalem where protesters branded Rabin a “traitor,” “murderer,” and “Nazi” for signing a peace agreement with the Palestinians earlier that year.

          He also marched in a Ra’anana protest as demonstrators behind him carried a mock coffin.

          (snip)

          “I vehemently opposed the calls of ‘traitor’ directed toward [Rabin] but I thought he was wrong and mistaken in the direction he took. It was an error to make peace with the enemy.”

          (my emphasis)

          Also in his speech, he said it was his “vision” that Palestinan leadership would not want to destroy Israel and they could live in peace. But nothing about their autonomy.

    • P J Evans says:

      They arrested some people *before* the speech who were wearing that shirt. They were family members of hostages.

  22. harpie says:

    https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/07/24/us/harris-trump-biden-election/66ae75f0-d674-5e4e-81b4-bac379944c4d July 24, 2024, 2:04 p.m. ET

    The Republican Jewish Coalition released a new ad attacking Kamala Harris for skipping Benjamin Netanyahu’s address to Congress, calling it a “snub” of the Israeli prime minister. The ad accuses Harris of “siding with pro-Hamas demonstrators,” noting that instead of being in Washington today, she attended a sorority luncheon in Indianapolis.

    JD Vance, Trump’s vice presidential candidate, also will not attend Netanyahu’s visit, citing campaign commitments. Harris, for her part, is scheduled to meet Netanyahu privately at the White House.

    LOL!

  24. Clare Kelly says:

    Replying to:

    velcroman
    July 24, 2024 at 5:15 pm

    You’re quoting Newsweek, from March, who got their info from IDF.

    …Breathtaking.

    • velcroman says:

      Clare,

      If you would like to address specific facts, or the credentials of the author (who, as I mentioned, has been saying the same thing all along, and continues to do so regularly), then please do so.

      If you look carefully, it is not simply they “got their info from the IDF”. It is an expert who has been to Gaza several times, quoting a variety of sources to make his point.

      And whose numbers exactly should we be believing? Hamas’s MOH? Their numbers until recently included 10% deaths reported by Google Forms, and 30% “reliable media sources” that are never identified. Those deaths had insufficient information to make any realistic identification of people. Yet every media outlet took them as fact.

      Also note that the numbers from MOH don’t distinguish between combatants and civilians, or whether civilians were killed by Israel, misfired Hamas rockets, or non-war-related causes. (As of 2022, 6000 people died per year in Gaza- and before you ask, that is based on 2.9/1000 deaths. US is 8.5/1000)
      https://web.archive.org/web/20220408132934/https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/countries/gaza-strip/#people-and-society

      But if you want to dismiss all that because it was in Newsweek, I can’t stop you.

      • P J Evans says:

        Newsweek hasn’t been reliable as an online source for years.

        We can see which side you’re on. You’re not at all subtle in your biases.

      • earlofhuntingdon says:

        Newsweek’s pages have been for sale for some time. They’re not reliable. As for Hamas’s MOH not distinguishing between combatants and civilians, that’s darkly funny, because the IDF seems to have adopted the same position the US military adopted in Vietnam: anyone wearing black pajamas is Vietcong, never mind that it’s standard peasant clothing.

      • velcroman says:

        Regarding John Spencer and Newsweek:
        The author has unimpeachable credentials. Whether he publishes in Newsweek or Stars and Stripes doesn’t matter, if you are looking for the truth.

        Rayne,
        You never replied. Do you acknowledge October 7 even happened?
        Because journalists have been killed, that somehow makes the vast majority who survived somehow invalid?

        PJ, I quoted an expert with facts. Before you accuse me of bias, you may want to address the facts.

  27. Clare Kelly says:

    Replying to velcroman
    July 24, 2024 at 5:08 pm
    “I am disgusted by Netanyahu, as is most of the Israeli population. However, would you mind providing specifics on his “inaccuracies”?”

    From The Guardian:
    “Were Benjamin Netanyahu’s claims accurate in his speech to US Congress?
    We factcheck the Israeli prime minister’s statements about letting aid trucks into Gaza, safeguarding civilians and negotiations with Hamas”

    Ruth Michaelson
    The Guardian
    July 24, 2024
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jul/24/fact-check-benjamin-netanyahus-speech-to-the-us-congress

    • SteveBev says:

      I note that thus far the response to you is —*crickets*

      In the light of Netanyahu’s palpably false denials of
      1 using starvation as a weapon of war
      2 inadequate protection of civilian populations from military operations

      It is perhaps time to re-up this article by Geoffrey Robertson, re the Starmer government revisiting Sunak’s decision to give cover to Netanyahu with the ICC

      https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jul/10/labour-first-moral-test-netanyahu-icc-israel-gaza

      NB 1 Robertson was an influential figure in Starmer’s legal career.
      NB 2 the new AG Richard Hemer KC was previously
      “appointed by the Government of Ukraine to its Legal Task Force for Accountability for Crimes Committed in Ukraine.” So has a particular interest and aptitude towards holding war criminals to account.

      • velcroman says:

        SteveBev,

        I get 51 minutes to respond before you accuse me of not responding? (“crickets”)
        Do you even know what time zone I am in?

        Clare,

        Thanks for the link.

        I believe every death in Gaza is a tragedy. Lack of food is a horrible condition to endure. Israel is fighting a war, and no matter what you do, it will cause disruptions in food supply. That is very different from intentional starvation.
        Whether Israel allowed 30,000 trucks or 40,000, neither one aligns with the goal of starving Gazans.

        If Israel were deliberately starving Gaza, why would the claims of existing famine be downgraded to “high risk of famine”?

        Do you acknowledge that Hamas and other Gazan groups are taking food, water and fuel meant for hungry civilians? I can provide sources if you like. Do you blame Israel for that too?

        Are you aware (apparently the Guardian is not) that Egypt shut down the Rafah crossing, not Israel? I can provides sources for that too.

        Here’s an article that explains some of the situation.
        https://www.npr.org/2024/07/15/nx-s1-5035998/gaza-israel-food-aid-piling-up-not-reaching-those-in-need
        Some people blame Israel for not making the Gaza side peaceful enough to get trucks through, but it is Gazans and Hamas who are attacking the trucks. Israel is not perfect, but the facts do not support the accusation. As far as Netanyahu’s statement, it is accurate. At best, you can say Israel’s estimate of food trucks is higher than the UN’s.

        As far as protecting civilians, Israel is condemned no matter what they do. Hamas is hiding in tunnels under residential areas. Israel warns civilians to move, but they are condemned for that. The orders are “confusing”. Can you give an example of any other army giving such evacuation orders at all, never mind this regularly and at this scale? https://x.com/SpencerGuard/status/1786612885541515773

        And again, what Netanyahu actually says about flyers, text messages, and phone calls is 100% accurate. You may not think that is enough, or that they are trying hard enough in other areas, but your claim of “inaccuracy” is false.

        The quote on Hamas is accurate. The commentary criticizes Netanyahu, but does not contradict the statement.

        As I said, I am disgusted by Netanyahu. But the accusations of intentional starvation are not supported. The exact number of trucks is disputed. His statements on warning civilians and negotiations are accurate. You may disagree with the larger points he is making, but the statements are accurate. The larger points are far more complex and nuanced than people admit. Again, I do not claim Israel is perfect. But some people will not acknowledge any facts that show Israel in a positive light.

        Getting back to the original claim, -no way do these statements match the outright lies that Trump spits out by the dozen.

        • SteveBev says:

          As a professional advocate it was my duty to represent my client with as much skill and determination as I could possibly bring to bear, irrespective of my personal feelings. In a professional setting it is unnecessary to seek to persuade people of the value and objectivity of your argument by protesting your personal detestation of the client, one simply goes ahead to put their case in the best possible light, sometimes by avoiding dealing with uncomfortable evidence or obvious inferences. Sometimes by calling expert evidence or character witnesses which serves the purpose of inviting the tribunal to go down a side track of irrelevant detail

          As and when Bibi appears before the ICC, it will be interesting to see whether the estimable John Spencer will appear as an expert witness or a character witness or both.

          As with war so with Lawfare, the terrain of the conflict is not just in the streets of Gaza, nor the chamber of the ICC but also the court of public, opinion and the battleground needs to be seeded in advance.

          Your determination is evident, but your attempts to boost your credibility by denouncing Bibi ring increasingly hollow.

          And let’s face it,
          “what is genocide anyway? Can anyone help me?” is by any measure your most silly gambit yet. You’ve let yourself down, and even worse you’ve let Bibi down.

    • SteveBev says:

      And as predicted, as advocated

      https://www.theguardian.com/law/article/2024/jul/26/britain-drops-challenge-icc-arrest-warrants-israeli-leaders-netanyahu-gallant

      Arrest warrants for Netanyahu and Gallant no longer to be blocked by U.K. as proposed manoeuvre by Sunak government are not going to be pursued.

      The prime minister Keir Starmer’s deputy official spokesperson said: “On the submission, this was a proposal by the previous government that was not submitted before the election. I can confirm the government will not be pursuing that in line with our longstanding position that this is a matter for the court to decide on.”

      She added: “The government feels very strongly about the rule of law internationally and domestically, and the separation of powers, and I would note the courts have already received a number of submissions on either side and they are well seized of the arguments to make their determination.”

  28. Badger Robert says:

    Can Ms. Wheeler revisit this topic now that VP Harris has met Netanyahu and made appropriate remarks summarizing the meeting?

  29. velcroman says:

    Accusations of genocide have been leveled at Israel on this thread.
    Can someone please provide a definition?

  30. velcroman says:

    (My comment did not show up twice. I will try again, but shorter. Apologies if it repeats.)

    Rayne, stop my bullshit by answering my questions. (It is funny how when people don’t want to answer questions, they pull the sea lion defense.)

    I am well aware of the U.N. definition. *You* used the term genocide. I asked you for *your* definition before responding.

    These are relevant, valid questions. I am not harassing you. This is only the second post on this topic. If you refuse to respond, or respond with ad hominem attacks, I have my answer.

    Your definition (i.e. the beginning of the Genocide Convention) has no quantitative aspect. Is killing one person a genocide? 100? 1000? How about causing serious mental harm to a single person? It seems to fit your definition, which makes your definition, as you present it, meaningless. If there is more detail, or court cases, or whatever, that quantify that, please provide it. Note that you used the term. You can define it however you want.

    Is it a genocide of a people if their population increases every year for 75 years? Have you ever heard of a genocide where that was the case?

    Is it a genocide over a period of 9 months if the population is still growing?

    Is it a genocide of a people if *inside the country that is allegedly committing the genocide* the same people are full citizens, with no threats against their safety?

    • Rayne says:

      I’m going to stop your bullshit all right. You’re not only sealioning but JAQ-ing off in comments AND being a dick to other commenters by insisting they do as you demand.

      In short, you’re trolling. If you’d actually paid any attention to comments at this site you’d already have answers to your questions, but you’re too intent on trolling to read. You’re simply DDoSing this thread, so intent on filling it with filibustering that you’ve managed to trigger auto-moderation with sloppily typed username/email fields.

      Let me help you find the door.

      ADDER: don’t waste your time and energy.

      Rights expert finds ‘reasonable grounds’ genocide is being committed in Gaza
      https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/03/1147976

      Ireland to intervene in South Africa’s genocide case against Israel over Gaza invasion
      https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2024/03/27/ireland-to-intervene-in-south-africas-case-against-israel-over-gaza-invasion/

      And because you’re throwing a temper tantrum, U.N. definition of genocide:

      Definition
      Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide
      Article II

      In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

      Killing members of the group;
      Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
      Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
      Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
      Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

      source: https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml

        • SteveBev says:

          Rayne.

          Absolutely no problem. Though I intended it to be a measured response, after posting it I reflected that any response was just troll feeding, and perhaps therefore an unnecessary imposition on moderation.

          Your kind remark is therefore unnecessary but very much appreciated

  31. jdmckay8 says:

    Was a little surprised at Harris’ very direct statement after chatting with Bibi, definitavely saying a 2 state solution is going to be her policy. Joe said it quietly. I’m all for it.

    I’d like to see Schumer invite Merav Michaeli to address congress. She’s a great speaker, more representative of Israeli public than Bibi by a good margin, and US public has never been introduced to her for the most part. She would also provide a much more detailed, forceful counter to a whole lot of what Bibi has said here. It would kind’a make it Harris and majority of Israeli’s vs. narrow US Republican adoration that is not very grounded in reality.

    • Rayne says:

      I don’t think Joe said it quietly. I think the media simply decided it was more important to stress “Joe is old.”

      I mean, he literally called for a two-state solution in the SOTU: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2M8t65e5WMo — how much louder does he need to get?

      I haven’t finished weeks of work scraping, sorting, and parsing Voice of America’s reporting for content “Biden Israel” but there was so much there, much of it about Biden and Blinken trying to get Netanyahu to protect Gaza’s civilians as well as policy — so much of it received performative coverage by mainstream media.

      VOA search: “biden “two-state solution” israel” https://www.voanews.com/s?k=biden%20%22two-state%20solution%22%20israel&tab=all&pi=1&r=any&pp=50

      • jdmckay8 says:

        Maybe quietly not best choice of words. I heard him say it a few times, and I was pleased about that. But it wasn’t forceful, as in “this is the way its got’a be, period” kind’a way. Beyond that, Joe’s style is a lot more behind-the-scenes diplomacy than any recent US President I can think of. He doesn’t play politics with it. And regardless of age, he’s been very effective doing things his way.

        Kamala’s statement was more forceful, especially the context: eg. right after meeting w/Bibi, and this right on the heals of his speech here. It was much more a declaration, a statement of policy, a redline. Regardless of media bias, these differences seem clear to me. And it also seems clear Joe is ceding the bully pulpit to Kamala, I imagine on several issues.

        I’m not saying anything beyond that, that Joe’s lower key way is better than Kamala’s “declaration”. Its what she chose to do. I look forward to see how she executes. And that’s one reason I think inviting Michaeli to address congress would be a very good move.

      • jdmckay8 says:

        I read your VOA links back to SOTU address. There little in there that is “declarative” as I describe above, from Biden, on 2 state solution. It’s mentioned a few times, but not elevated above current circumstances as Kamala did.

        That’s all I’m saying, Rayne.

        • Rayne says:

          So you’re saying Biden’s declarative statement in the SOTU — shared in the US State Dept video — isn’t enough.

          Uh-huh.

        • jdmckay8 says:

          No, I didn’t say that. Will all due respect Rayne, I think you’re hitting below the belt a little.

          I’ve been watching AYMAN on MSNBC last hour and 1/2. She had as guests 2 young women who worked for Biden/Harris campaign since before Oct. 7. Both have since joined outside organizations more directly purposed with Palestinian advocacy. And remember, several fairly high level advisers in the campaign resigned in last few months over Bide/Harris Gaza policy.

          In the campaign, they both worked on college campus organizing, and Gaza became front/center of what they had to deal with wrt to student’s concerns. This is a difficult political issue.

          They talked directly about what Harris needed to do to gain and/or maintain their support. They both said, action. Meaningful action that significantly improves Palestinian’s circumstances. They both said without this, Harris will lose a lot of support on campuses. Its no mystery Joe did.

          The point of this: according to these women, a significant number of college student voters will be persuaded how to vote over Gaza/Palestinian policy, and not enthusiasm for Harris alone.

          This all makes perfect sense to me. This is exactly what people I’m friends with, currently in college, tell me when they come by our house. I don’t think I’ve heard one of them say otherwise.

          What kind of action? It was, after seeing her statement after meeting w/Bibi I call more declarative, I had same thought. How will she execute? What kind of action will come out of this? There’s no indication of this AFAIK. There hasn’t been any action yet that has shifted things, and Bibi seems hell bent to continue on current path. Including major new expansion in the West Bank as we speak.

          I agree with what you said about slanted media for Biden. But that’s a separate issue: Harris is not bound in her choices, policy or how/what to execute, by media shortcomings. Execute well, and the media narrative will much more likely change. I hope she makes the news with strong action on this matter, not lament poor media coverage. From everything I’ve seen and know about her, she’s very capable of doing this.

          Persuading US voting public to get behind a policy (2 state solution) that has been pushed off to the sidelines for a long time is not going to happen easily. Unconditional support of Israel is almost in US political DNA. And its not going to change just by declaring it as policy behind a lectern. It seems a little off purpose to divert the conversation to a debate if Joe’s statement(s) were as strong as Kamala’s.

          They need to be doing stuff that hasn’t been done before, because what’s been done before has not shifted things. There’s been a few teasers wrt supplies getting in and ceasfires, but even that little bit seems out of reach most of the time.

          Harris has been thrust into the crucible really fast. Hardly time to catch her breath. Off to amazing start, but MAGA street brawling has already begun. I hope she’s surrounding herself with very smart people capable of devising new playbooks. From all the (especially AA) women coming to the fore this last week, sure looks to me like there’s plenty in this group capable of this kind of thinking.

        • Rayne says:

          Reply to jdmckay8
          July 27, 2024 at 8:45 pm

          First, re-read what you wrote. I didn’t come away thinking you bothered to watch the SOTU excerpt published by US State Department.

          Second, 551 words is absurdly overlong to say based on your recent media consumption you think Harris needs to do something different than her boss and state department have been doing.

          Third, you’ve paid as much attention to U.S. policy toward Israel under the Biden admin as the rest of mainstream media has. Even the Congressional Research Service documented Biden’s policy:

          Israeli-Palestinian tensions and potential Israel-Saudi Arabia normalization. Uncertainty surrounds the future of the Palestinian Authority (PA) in both the West Bank and Gaza, given ongoing conflict and debate about post-conflict security and governance involving Israel, the PA, the United States, various Arab states, and other international actors. Biden Administration officials have said that a revamped PA should ultimately take responsibility for post-conflict governance in Gaza, while diplomatic efforts continue toward an eventual two-state solution. Prime Minister Netanyahu—perhaps partly owing to domestic political considerations—has argued against PA rule in Gaza and advocated policies that could prevent the formation of a Palestinian state. PA leaders have indicated that the PA would only return to govern Gaza in the context of significant progress toward establishing a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza that has a capital in East Jerusalem. Meanwhile, U.S. officials are reportedly pursuing diplomatic agreement on several issues with Saudi Arabia that would be linked to normalizing relations between Israel and Saudi Arabia. Such normalization might only happen if Israeli leaders state
          their openness to an eventual two-state solution.

          The only entity which has pushed off to the sidelines the two-state solution is Netanyahu and his current government. Furthermore, Harris currently has the luxury of not being responsible for making Israel-Saudi Arabia normalization work unless she’s elected — but that’s another inconvenient policy goal not covered by media and not read about by most Americans.

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