America’s Hitler/JD 2024

Bronzer/Eyeliner 2024: MakeUp America Great Again

Consider this an open thread.

Links

Aaron Blake looks at how JD underperformed fellow Republicans in Ohio.

Robert Kuttner on JD’s false compassion.

A video with some of JD’s criticism from 2016.

This goes to a trusted Google page with tons of links on JD.

Bulwark on Vance’s embrace of Russian disinformation.

Nolan Finley is a conservative Detroit News commentator originally from Kentucky; he demands an apology from Vance for his slurs against Appalachia.

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252 replies
  1. Clare Kelly says:

    OK.
    That’s a lede I did not know I needed.

    I’m laughing like Christine Baranski and I need nothing more today.

    Maybe one of her gummies…and this lamp…and this paddle game…*

    *Steve Martin
    The Jerk

    • Clare Kelly says:

      I just got a fundraising text from Sherrod Brown re:Vance.

      I donated with a “thx for not underbussing Biden/Harris”.

      I can hear Peter Thiel laughing manically about the ROI of his legislative portfolio.

      Vote like you mean it.

      • Rugger_9 says:

        I speculated on the last thread that this is a play by Convict-1 for Thiel’s money, and perhaps that is Peter’s price.

        Vance has the same lack of principles as a whole bunch of GOP senators and congresscritters. Given Convict-1’s well known aversion to facial hair, I guess that was set aside for the checkbook.

  2. phichi174 says:

    on its face, it looks like the convicted Felon chose the most radioactive stooge possible.

    all Biden needs to do is roll all the anti-orange turd comments made by mister destined for the noose “i smell a fart” vance

    • John B.*^ says:

      At least to me it’s not that hard to understand…Vance will be a reliable attack dog saying even more outrageous things and taking heat and spotlight away from TFG…will it work? I certainly can see pitfalls but it still requires the Dems to engage and join the fray…Biden needs an attack dog right now.

      • Dark Phoenix says:

        Honestly, if Vance ends up on TV more than Trump does, Trump is GOING to lash out at him. Trump doesn’t want his VP upstaging him.

    • CaptainCondorcet says:

      You are assuming that voters who are still somehow undecided in this race will have the critical thinking to see through the inevitable “I’ve been able to learn more about Trump as a candidate and a person as well as how much the Democrats persecute him” pivot that is surely incoming from Vance if it hasn’t hit already. That is a strong assumption. Honestly, by this point, I’m not sure there IS messaging that would be a sure thing to convince these undecided unicorns.

        • CaptainCondorcet says:

          I am familiar with Brady’s work, and I wholeheartedly support voter mobilization efforts, particularly among younger voters and anyone who voted for the first time in 2020 because of mail-in ballot expansion. I can also say in the European context where I studied voter behavior “undecided” was not uncommonly a proxy for “I don’t feel comfortable sharing but don’t want to be a ‘bad participant’ “. It’s also of note that Brady included “would consider voting for another person”, which can also be a proxy for either lack of comfort disclosing or overreliance on the trope of false balance. I strongly suspect the true number of unaware and undecided voters is much lower, and depending on their distribution across states, not an electorally significant bloc.

          With that said, I do genuinely believe Project 2025 changes things. That such a clearly described extreme platform is likely to be adopted by a president who previously was not exactly known for strong stances (see the vacant 2020 GOP party platform) complicates the matter. And I definitely support informing a bunch of people who have already written Trump off as a jerk but the lesser of two evils just how much they potentially have to lose when his minions enact policies he literally may not even be able to understand.

        • Ralph H white says:

          I believe if the Democrats put up a new candidate they would excite not only their own base, but independents and some republicans thinking of sitting it out.

      • c-i-v-i-l says:

        Vance in 2016:

        What Trump offers is an easy escape from the pain. To every complex problem, he promises a simple solution. He can bring jobs back simply by punishing offshoring companies into submission. As he told a New Hampshire crowd—folks all too familiar with the opioid scourge—he can cure the addiction epidemic by building a Mexican wall and keeping the cartels out. He will spare the United States from humiliation and military defeat with indiscriminate bombing. It doesn’t matter that no credible military leader has endorsed his plan. He never offers details for how these plans will work, because he can’t. Trump’s promises are the needle in America’s collective vein.

        The great tragedy is that many of the problems Trump identifies are real, and so many of the hurts he exploits demand serious thought and measured action—from governments, yes, but also from community leaders and individuals. Yet so long as people rely on that quick high, so long as wolves point their fingers at everyone but themselves, the nation delays a necessary reckoning. There is no self-reflection in the midst of a false euphoria. Trump is cultural heroin. He makes some feel better for a bit. But he cannot fix what ails them, and one day they’ll realize it.

        https://web.archive.org/web/20160704104446/https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/07/opioid-of-the-masses/489911/

      • Frank Anon says:

        A smart campaign might forget about most global messaging (save abortion) and focus solely on the small handful of voters in a small handful of states. I assume the lure of JD had everything to do with a subset of voters in Western PA and southern Michigan because none of the other contenders brought anything at all from a voter standpoint, and only one or two brought money. I’d expect more weird announcements like the Biden rent control as I’m guessing some research showed that a small subset of voters in North Carolina (or wherever) found it meaningful. The Trumpy ones will be doozy’s

  3. Ginevra diBenci says:

    So Trump picks the even bigger, dumber phony than he is. Does he want to seem authentic by comparison? One advantage of Vance is that Trump holds so much material that is publicly available to shame his VP hopeful into perpetual obedience; we all know what Vance said about Trump before his Come To Jesus conversion, and if we don’t we’ll surely hear it in ads from the Biden campaign.

    So much for “unity.” Vance is not about unity. Like Trump, he is about himself. I suppose we’ll see if all that Thiel money is worth this devil’s bargain.

    • earlofhuntingdon says:

      J.D. Vance is infinitely smarter than Trump. We’ve yet to see whether he’s smart in a Frank Underwood way, or a Kris Kobach way. Given his recent nomination as VP, I’d say the former.

      Naturally, he’s been in government so short a time he knows SFA about governance or the USG. But that’s not his mission. He’s there to give us a distillation of Koch, Mercer, Crow, and Musk and pour it into a decanter in the Oval Office.

        • harpie says:

          Next paragraph:

          I have been working on this for the past two months, after growing increasingly concerned about the influence this industry is trying to exert.

          Did you know crypto companies have spent more this cycle than the oil or pharmaceutical industries, despite being a small fraction of the size? […]

      • Ginevra diBenci says:

        Responding to earlofhuntingdon above:

        I assume you mean book-smart, earl. Because nothing about Vance suggests he possesses Trump’s instincts or feral cunning, and I seriously doubt DJT would have picked him if he truly considered Vance a threat.

        If anyone were ever a “DEI” beneficiary, Vance is it. He parlayed his upbringing and its purported deprivations into not just admission to the Ivy League but also a book that flattered a certain political moment in just the right way. I respect his military service, but it doesn’t make him a genius, just another ambitious pol determined to cover all his bases for a future bio.

        Vance is Trump without the brio. And Trump without the brio is just…mediocrity in menacingly soulless form.

        • jdmckay8 says:

          I respect his military service, but it doesn’t make him a genius,

          A little like DeSantis in that regard. People reveal who they really are over time. I suspect, over time, those two will reveal themselves… at least politically, to have a lot in common.

    • e.a. foster says:

      I don’t think Vance will care about the “information” Trump may have on him. I suspect so do a lot of other people. His comments regarding Trump, well Haley had some things to say about Trump and then there she was, she was supporting him.
      I’m sure all of them expect to get something out of this and Vance, he I am sure is looking to be Pres. of the U.S.A.
      Vance and Trump deserve each other, the american public, not so much. Vance has knowingly stepped into a position knowing what Trump is all about and what he can and will do. Vance just has to keep one step ahead of him. Who knows the two may spend so much time trying to out do each other, they won’t pay much attention to the country, well beyond it being turned over to the corporate world and removing more rights of American citizens, destroying workers’ rights and the enviornment.
      I’ve watched a couple of minutes of the convention, while the press was interviewing attendees. Some of them remind me of people at a religious revival meeting and some, I do wonder if hey ever read a book on the Constituion.
      I suspect he chose Vance because he will not stop to think about the ramifications of what he is doing. He is also smarter than Trumps’ two eldest sons. One shot of no. 1 son’s face, I’m not so sure he is happy with Vance, just a tad off.
      Well its not going to be boring.

  4. Matt Foley says:

    Once Vance saw his savior’s orange halo up close he dropped to his knees and begged forgiveness for telling the truth.

    MAGA
    My Acolytes Grovel Always

  5. earlofhuntingdon says:

    J.D. Vance is a creature of private equity. He shares its ruthless, hard right, psychopathology. He will use it without restraint to further an agenda farther to the right than Donald Trump or the Heritage Foundation. He is the perfect billionaire’s courtier. Meanwhile, he will encourage his boss to double down on those McBurgers and fries, as he dreams about what lies ahead. A House of Cards.

    As an aside, despite the themes of Vance’s oddly best-selling book, he grew up in Middletown, OH, frequently cited as one of the nicest home towns in Ohio. Like tens of thousands of others, he went to the Ann Arbor of Ohio and then to Yale Law School. If he’s a hillbilly, Yale is a community college.

      • Theodora30 says:

        The Guardian’s UK edition has a headline on its website today about Vance having said the UK could be the first Islamist country with nuclear weapons which is beyond stupid. So much for having a Harvard degree.

        • David Brooks says:

          BBC Radio 4 (widely listened to) just reported the same thing.

          I see problems in the Special Relationship. Last time, he had BoJo to protect him.

    • SVFranklinS says:

      I can’t concur on Middletown being one of the nicest towns in Ohio – my wife is from the Dayton area (Germantown), and we are there frequently. Middletown seems sad – a local example of a town in decline, after the steel mill cut back. Much more a meth vibe than a hopeful future, after ruthless capitalists cut back and sent local factories offshore.

      My wife’s family came from KY as part of the migration to the SW Ohio region, so we read Vance’s book with interest. Didn’t find it terribly insightful. My wife’s family were strong on unions, it’s why they did so well into retirement. But that life has gone from the area now. Vance’s urging for poor, lazy people to pull themselves up by the bootstraps like he did is the “blame the victim” mentality that gets the people crushing unions, closing factories, and sending work to cheap labor off the hook. Not a path to prosperity; a path to modern Middletown instead.

      Vance seems unpopular with the MAGA crowd; I suspect Vance was chosen partly to get access to Thiel’s money. Not sure if it will start dawning on the MAGAs that they are being used to forward the billionaire agenda. Vance fits right in that vein.

      The Ohio State as “the Ann Arbor of Ohio”? those are fighting words to some (but I’m born in MI, so ok by me…)

  6. wa_rickf says:

    Vance previously compared Donald Trump to Hitler (his exact words). The “Hitler” label ought to be used over and over by the Biden campaign and other Democrats, as they highlight the fact that even Trump’s own running mate thinks he’s a sociopath.

    Trump’s choice of JD Vance doesn’t help Trump in any way shape or form, and selecting Vance gives the Dems and ol’ Joe so much material to work with.

    Trump’s incompetence knows no bounds, and he probably thinks that selection Vance was a “very smart move.” This self-inflicted political sabotage is par for the course for a loser like Trump.

    • Molly Pitcher says:

      Since JD Vance called Trump, “America’s Hitler”, I guess that makes Vance, “Himmler”.

      • Ithaqua0 says:

        More like Goering, before Goering’s life went south due to his morphine addiction (a result of the serious injuries he suffered during the Beer Hall Putsch.) Himmler was a useful idiot, in the non-Communist sense of the phrase, Goebbels was a very useful genius in a narrow field. Goering actually did stuff as a pilot in WWI, shooting down 22 Allied planes and winning the Blue Max, and was a real asset in the early days of the Nazi party. He had talent, skills, and brains, but, fortunately for the rest of the world, it all slipped away from him over the years.

    • dar_5678 says:

      The Vance quote is:

      > “I go back and forth between thinking Trump is a cynical asshole like Nixon who wouldn’t be that bad (and might even prove useful) or that he’s America’s Hitler.”

      So he didn’t quite call Trump “Hitler”. The difference is significant.

      Although the guy who thinks another Nixon might be OK or good, still gets no votes from me.

      • HuntaurD says:

        But to put political strategy in a courtroom drama mindset more fitting for this forum: “Your Honor, the defense opened the door when they referred to their own client as Hitler”

      • Troutwaxer says:

        Donald Trump: “…he’s America’s Hitler.” – JD Vance.

        This is a fair method of quoting someone.

        • dar_5678 says:

          You and I have very different definitions of “fair”, then.

          I would call that purposely deceptive, and I would not trust anything else the speaker said.

    • jdmckay8 says:

      even Trump’s own running mate thinks he’s a sociopath.

      Maybe “thought”, rather than “thinks”. Vance has been a vocal apostle for a while now. Goes to show JD is open to new idea. :)

      There was a comedian on Johnny Carson decades ago, only saw him once. Very funny. He explained why he and his new bride were so happy. It was because he had learned how to compromise. He explained: “For example, before we got married I wanted to have a bachelor’s party. My fiance, she didn’t want me to have a bachelor’s party. So we compromised, and I didn’t have a bachelor’s party.”

      I suspect JD and Donald… compromised. I guess one is the compromiser, the other the compromisee. :)

  7. jdmckay8 says:

    On Sunday Morning political roundups the day before SCOTUS burped up the immunity ruling, Vance made the rounds talking almost word for word what SCOTUS said the following day. I had distinct feeling Vance (and who knows who else) received a preview. These people are scary, in same way Gestapo was scary.

    Absolutely lovely.

    • harpie says:

      hmmm…thanks for mentioning this.
      I wonder if we could find some possible linkages…clerks or spouses..?

      • P-villain says:

        I’m assuming you know, but for those who don’t, Vance’s wife clerked for Kavanaugh (pre-SCOTUS) and Roberts.

        • jdmckay8 says:

          No, I didn’t know that. Thx.

          I was real active here for approx. last 7 months of ’23. Close to end of December, Marcy was shining bright light on fissures in Hunter’s “case”, demonstrating convincingly (at least to me) Hunter’s devices had been tampered with.

          That, along with a lot of other stuff (not least Trump’s increasingly revealing of fealty to Putin/Orbon) I was beginning to think what until that point I would not allow myself: that being MAGA/Federalists and a lot of dark money players (whoever they are) are coordinating their efforts in increasingly bold maneuvers.

          I got flamed pretty good here, don’t think I mentioned it here.

          Just been back in US about 5 weeks, been working in SE Asia prior. Been following this stuff from afar, but not nearly as thoroughly as last year. This episode, SCOTUS immunity (and Chevron) and plenty of other stuff has me believing what I mention above at this point as a given. Especially with 2025 and stuff they’ve been saying lately.

          I’m well aware this sounds like black helicopter stuff, but I see a lot of other people and some fairly mainstream media people saying the same thing now. So I think what I said about Vance getting a preview is/was valid AND likely influenced in my thinking by this “black helicopter” stuff, I’ve rarely bought into that kind of thing in my life and arrived at this place now very, very deliberately in step by step observations of Marcy’s work the last year or so, but a bunch of other things I’ve watched carefully as well.

          So, I just wanted to explain my mindset w/notion in mind that quite a few other folks are arriving at a approximately similar conclusion.

        • Molly Pitcher says:

          Usha Chilukuri Vance, is also Southeast Asian, and resigned today, from her very prominent San Francisco and Wash DC law firm, at Munger, Tolles & Olson, ranked No. 1 on The American Lawyer’s A-List for the ninth time. They are litigators.

    • Dark Phoenix says:

      Rolling Stone has recordings of Roger Stone talking about his “direct access to some of the judges in the Trump cases”…

      Would it surprise anybody if it turns out that Judge Cannon was in direct contact with Roger the Ratfucker on a consistent basis?

      • harpie says:

        Thanks. That must be this:

        ‘Lawyers, Judges, Technology’: Roger Stone Touts Plan for Trump Win in Secret Recording Liberal documentary filmmaker Lauren Windsor’s team spoke to the “dirty trickster” of right-wing politics at an event at Mar-a-Lago https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/roger-stone-plan-trump-win-lawyers-judges-technology-1235041650/ Nikki McCann Ramirez June18, 2024

        […] “At least this time when they do it, you have a lawyer and a judge — his home phone number standing by — so you can stop it,” Stone says at one point. “We made no preparations last time, none … There are technical, legal steps that we have to take to try and have a more honest election. We’re not there yet, but there’s things that can be done.”

        The audio, which was provided exclusively to Rolling Stone, includes two conversations — one between Windsor and Stone and one between Windsor’s colleague Ally Sammarco and Stone — recorded at a Catholics Prayer for Trump event on March 19 at Mar-a-Lago, the former president’s Florida club. Stone was the keynote speaker at the event. […]

        • harpie says:

          […]“We are beating them,” Stone tells Sammarco. “[Trump’s] trial in Georgia is falling apart. I think the judge is on the verge of dismissing the charges against him in Florida. They’re delayed in New York City and they’re now delayed in Washington.” […]

        • harpie says:

          From STONE’s speech [in the article]:

          [the Democratic Party has been taken over by] “a group of radical, atheist, Marxists, who plan nothing less than the full destruction of this nation and our constitutional freedoms.”

          “Don’t think that this is a fight between Republicans and Democrats, liberals, and conservatives.

          This is nothing less than an epic struggle between good and evil”
          “A struggle between light and dark,
          a struggle between the godly and the godless.”

  8. dogshelpgod says:

    Perhaps this vp pick will do at least as much for Trump as picking Sarah Palin did for McCain.

  9. hippiebullsht says:

    ‘TAINT what you do, the way that you do it!
    its NAZI wut you do the way that u do it!’
    itsa the all new Republican shitfucking new campaign tune!

    Ella sings it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8fCXNTCWig
    the swing kids piss on nazis while singing it out! : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_47juPGglyM&pp=ygUbc3dpbmcga2lkcyBwaXNzIHNjZW5lIG1vdmll
    and for the other Ella not-fans, Funboy 3 version from 81(like me): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd5R80LkEjA Swing Kids is a fab film!
    shout out to Sy Oliver, Trummy Young, Ella and all the other jazz and swing kids who were shim shamming and kicking the fascist pricks since before Joe Biden was born!

  10. Peterr says:

    After the shooting, Vance blamed the Biden and the Dems for their violent rhetoric that amped up the shooter.

    Does that mean that Vance blames Trump rhetoric for January 6th?

    • Clare Kelly says:

      Indeed.
      “More fundamentally, though, it is absurd for an ardent supporter of Donald Trump to feign a principled opposition to incendiary rhetoric.

      The former president has likened his political enemies to “vermin,” accused Joe Biden of trying to “overthrow the United States” by orchestrating mass immigration, and said that if the Democrat wins, “our country doesn’t stand a chance.”

      Eric Levitz
      “Yes, it’s still fair to call Trump a threat to democracy
      The attempt on his life shouldn’t cow his critics.”
      Vox
      7/14/2024

      https://apple.news/AGO4NkLE6RYWA_MHMLdpF0w

  11. Magbeth4 says:

    I confess I have never seen this Vance person in a video. Just the captions warn me that he is not worthy of my attention. I don’t really know who he is. I was not aware that he was in Congress until today. I just thought he might be some kind of radio-tv Rush Limbaugh kind of radical bloviator. Maybe, y’all shouldn’t give him so much oxygen. He is visually unattractive, and if reports of his rhetoric are true, vile in what comes from his mouth. Trump will not be elected and this would-be Nazi enabler won’t get anywhere near the White House.

    We’ve been here before with the George Wallace-types. He didn’t win, either. Enough water has run under the Trump bridge that folks won’t be fooled again, especially, with a nutcase like this. Give them enough rope and they will hang themselves.

      • Magbeth4 says:

        A book about Hillbillies would not be in my radar sights. I’m attracted to more elevated topics, such as the History of the US Constitution by such scholars as Professor Akil Reed Amar, from Yale University. (I wonder, did Vance take any of his courses when he was a student there?)

        • Grain of Sand says:

          It was purportedly about his childhood. A lot of cultural anthropologists, political scientists and sociologists read it, among others, looking for insights, I guess, about the trump appeal.

        • earlofhuntingdon says:

          The NYT’s David Brooks wrote several best sellers, too. Not much evidence that his arguments were based on fact. His many interviews with diners in Pennsylvania were, for example, apparently largely invented. Brooks would call it poetic license. It’s a technique often used to launder adult politics, and call them inescapable truths rather than political choices.

        • Yohei1972 says:

          Leaving aside the qualities of the author or this specific book (which has come in for plenty of criticism as well as praise), I raise an eyebrow at your proudly declared disdain for the idea of reading anything about the lower socioeconomic classes.

        • CovariantTensor says:

          Scoffing at topics that aren’t elevated is largely how we got this curse of a “populist” movement in the first place.

      • David Brooks says:

        One way his book is spun is that anyone coming from a deprived background can make it through application and hard work. Don’t pamper the poor people.

        Fiona Hill and Tara Westover, with similar trajectories, lean heavily on chance and the good luck to meet fantastic mentors to warn that their journeys are not easy to replicate.

        • earlofhuntingdon says:

          Exactly. Vance has a lottery winner’s hubris. Everybody can do what I did, so why help them? Never mind the millions left on the wayside. Government should be run for the millions, not the lottery winners.

          Cary Grant, too, was said to have felt that “anyone” could do what he did. Sure, if you were born with his looks, charm, ambition, athleticism, talent, energy, and a burning desire not to be what you grew up with.

  12. Clare Kelly says:

    Replying to harpie
    July 15, 2024 at 6:15 pm
    “The facial hair is almost like a uniform for these guys at this point.”

    …as ubiquitous as the ‘Hitler Youth’ haircuts on SS Agents.

    • Frank Anon says:

      Where I live, I use certain facial hair styles to immediately assume Trumpy. For example the white, Wilfred Brimley-esq long mustache from chin around to chin on anyone, men over 50 with a tight mustache/goatee, young men with bushy-bear beards (some baseball players excluded, some not), and any guy who trims his beard below the chin but lets the cheeks and mustache fly. There are others, but all of them just scream MAGA

    • ExRacerX says:

      With Vance, it’s only necessary to look at a few photos of him clean-shaven to understand he has a beard because he looks amusingly baby-like without one.

  13. Bay State Librul says:

    “As a parent of young children and a nationalist who worries about America’s low fertility I can say with confidence that daylight savings time reduces fertility by at least 10 percent.” JD Vance in 2020

    Comment: Huh

    • Clare Kelly says:

      When the biggest proven issue to GOTV for over half our population is reproductive autonomy, go with this guy:

      “If your worldview tells you that it’s bad for women to become mothers but liberating for them to work 90 hours a week in a cubicle at the New York Times or Goldman Sachs, you’ve been had.”
      @JDVance1
      10:37 AM · Jun 26, 2022

      To which Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez replied:
      “We cannot allow this ding-dong who doesn’t seem to know the typical American seeking reproductive care is already a MOTHER, & who also thought fertility had to do with Daylight Savings become the next US Senator for Ohio,”

      Yes. His wife was a corporate litigator for the prestigious law firm Munger, Tolles & Olson, until today.

      I’m beginning to think this is a gift.

      • Ginevra diBenci says:

        Joy Reid thinks it’s the best thing that’s happened to the Democrats in a month. I hope she’s right, but we still have to make the case–using Vance to impeach Trump, as it were, which in turn makes Vance look like dignity wraith he is.

      • Dark Phoenix says:

        Vance is also one of those wackos who has bought into the bullshit claim that women like to use abortion as a replacement for birth control…

  14. gmokegmoke says:

    JD Vance was said to have been a protege of Amy Chua, the “tiger mom,” at Yale Law, the same school that gave us Brett Kavanaugh who likes beer. Ah, the benefits of an Ivy League education, well, at least one of the “major” Ivies, as Ted Cruz would say.

  15. bgThenNow says:

    Not to change the ugly subject, but I also read that RFK Jr was meeting with Trump today to discuss “Unity.” Such a bunch. JD Vance seems to me to have very low appeal, visually or otherwise.

  16. RitaRita says:

    One doesn’t need much experience in government if the intent is to destroy it. And foreign policy chops are important if we will be outsourcing that to Putin.

    I wonder if Vance is the billionaires’ succession policy.

    • Molly Pitcher says:

      ABSOLUTELY. I would be very cautious if I were Trump. He might want to hire a court taster, now that he is vying for King.

  17. earlofhuntingdon says:

    Vance knows that he will be no ordinary Vice President. The principal job of the VP is to act as an understudy. It has no official duties, except occasionally to preside over the Senate, in a legislative, not executive branch, capacity as its president. The VP normally ends up doing a lot of grunt work the President isn’t interested in. (I think Biden and Harris have arranged the job differently, to great effect.)

    But what Vance, his backers, and most of the pary’s movers and shakers know is that Trump is unlikely to have the normal shelf of a sitting president. He’s one slip, one McBurger away from a stroke or heart attack. And, boy, does that open up possibilities for a guy steeped in private equity, like Vance.

    • Magbeth4 says:

      Trump is also one hamburger away from a Court judgement assigning him to a jail cell during his first months in Office. He can’t pardon himself for State crimes, can he?

      • earlofhuntingdon says:

        Trump’s a menu away from being incarcerated for his 34 felony convictions. For starters, first-time non-violent felony convictions rarely serve time, though Trump has worked hard to force the judge into making him the exception.

        Then there’s that the convictions are not final until sentencing, which has been delayed for several weeks. Judge Merchan needs time to consider the impact of the immunity decision. Most of the counts should survive, under the principle of harmless error. But it seems unlikely Trump would serve a custodial sentence, even house arrest, until his appeal to the Appellate Division is sorted out.

        Not much is gonna happen before election day. And I’m taking no bets that, if Merchan wants to put him in jail for a few weeks, the Supremes won’t step in and invent a way for the feds to stay a state court judgment that concerns the ability of their man to be the feisty, aggressive chief executive they want him to be.

    • CaptainCondorcet says:

      And traumatic events, particularly those with a physical “reminder” to them, make the slips more likely and the McBurgers more deadly, especially among older adults. After very recent events, I suspect the only question is whether or not the VP will be eligible for 2 terms after they finish up the rest of the TFG’s.

        • CaptainCondorcet says:

          Yup. Back in the run-up to 2020 election there were nutjobs claiming Biden was going to “get sick” and step down Jan 21, 2023 just to help Kamala reach that decade mark. Biden has clearly shown that is never going to happen, and Trump would literally sooner die than step down voluntarily out of concerns for capacity.

  18. paulka123 says:

    Pence was a pick by a novice Trump to build consensus among conservatives.

    Vance is a pick by a seasoned Trump to enforce his will.

    This is not good for America

    • timbozone says:

      Even more dangerous will be Vance’s attempting to “take the pressure off my boss” by consolidating power for himself. Vance is a say and do anything kind of guy.

    • Clare Kelly says:

      IMHO, “the J.D. pick” makes it “less likely [to be] a 2nd term Trump”.

      Among other things, the fundamental, internationally recognized right to reproductive autonomy is a big fecking deal to a majority of Americans and Gen Z in particular.

    • CaptainCondorcet says:

      The (alleged) shooter was 20. He was a minor during the entire duration of Trump’s presidency. I understand people’s hopes in understanding “the why”, but it will not change the insistence by the frothy right that TFG is a martyr and regardless of shooter affiliation “Trump Derangement Syndrome” is to blame. We have a mental illness problem and a gun problem in the United States, and picking apart minute details of perceptions formed by an obviously troubled adult when he was an obviously troubled teenager feels useless at best.

      • dogshelpgod says:

        Well they seem to be doing something to look like they’re doing something.

        After a plane crash, the FAA does a similar picking apart minute details, but based on what they find, unlike with guns and mental illness, they do something to make the future safer. (Unless it’s the Reagan administration.)

      • c-i-v-i-l says:

        No, it wasn’t. Journalist Hunter Walker:
        “A lot of progressive accounts are spreading this claim and it is not true. I have verified the FEC records myself. They match the alleged gunman’s street address. … The donation is in the alleged gunman’s name and came from his street address. … A good number of people are looking for every reason for this not to be true and sharing completely random information in the process. It’s bizarre.”

    • LadyHawke says:

      I keep coming back to the comment a former fellow student of his made, that he was kept off the school shooting team because they said he wasn’t a good enough shot.

      Guess he showed them/everybody! It could be as simple as toxic simmering of grievances in an unbalanced mind – how grimly appropriate.

  19. harpie says:

    https://bsky.app/profile/donmoyn.bsky.social/post/3kxe5ac46m22j
    Jul 15, 2024 at 6:32 PM

    JD Vance has talked about emulating authoritarian Orban’s gutting of academic freedom in Hungary [screenshot] [link]

    Links to:
    Make America Hungary Again
    MAGA’s obsession with Orban reveals they want authoritarianism, not greatness
    Don Moynihan Mar 13, 2024

    Wow…so, it seems this particular VP choice fits right in a TL I’ve been working on here:

    https://www.emptywheel.net/2024/07/15/the-taiwan-snub/#comment-1060622

      • CaptainCondorcet says:

        Tragic when one considers the history of Hungary under the USSR. They had to send tanks in to keep a Russian in power. Now their leader goes to Moscow to grovel willingly

    • harpie says:

      Here’s a great CapitolHunters THREAD on ThreadReader:

      https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1733920942181765378.html
      1:45 PM · Dec 10, 2023 [includes screenshots and links]

      The Heritage Foundation (who are running Project 2025) and Hungarian autocrat Viktor Orban’s team are meeting tomorrow to strategize ending aid to Ukraine. This was always the end-game. Remember Speaker Johnson’s Paris conference last month? Orban’s policy advisor was there. 1/
      […]
      Those trying to grasp how US lawmakers can be partnering with Hungarian fascists to do Putin’s bidding should read Ben Lorber’s series on NatCon III, which lays out the unholy alliance. Kevin Roberts of Heritage pledged his commitment that week, too. 4/
      […]
      Peter Thiel has been frantically planting news stories claiming he’s “done with politics”. He’s not. JD Vance & Vivek Ramaswamy are his guys. He funds NatCon. His Teneo, now run by Leonard Leo, is part of Project 2025. And his avatars push cutting off Ukraine. Don’t let them. 6/
      […]
      In case it hasn’t sunk in: Republican members of Congress are going to have private, closed-door meetings with reps of Putin’s closed ally in Europe, to plan how to end aid to our ally Ukraine, all hosted by a foundation working to end US democracy. 8/

      • jdmckay8 says:

        This is the kind’a stuff I’ve “sensed” for quite a while is/was going on. But to see stuff like this, for me, very troubling. It wasn’t that long ago republicans went nuts when some liberals cited efficacy of foreign (mostly European) law. They attacked it as though even talking about it was heresy.

        And now, here we are with this.

  20. Yankee in TX says:

    The Democrats should run 3 ads on a loop. The first should say that people say Trump is dangerous. Here’s what his own running mate said and then Vance’s Hitler quote. Ending with simply “We agree.” The second should tout Biden’s accomplishments for the middle class and plans for more in his second term. The third should highlight the Pugs plan to gut Social Security, and Medicare, cut taxes for the rich, while crashing the economy through tariffs and destroying the work force. Tie 2025 to Trump and and all other Pugs.

  21. Magbeth4 says:

    Just finished watching Lester Holt interview with Pres. Biden. Biden focused, calling Holt and Media out for not reporting on earlier Vance rhetoric about Trump; not reporting on violent language by Trump; not reporting about Vance’s extreme positions on Right to Choose, etc.
    Good for him!

    The President seemed quite “with it.”

    • JAFO_NAL says:

      Yes, he also called the media out for not wanting to focus on policy issues instead of optics and directly asked Lester Holt why there was no mention of the lies Trump told during the debate. I hope to see more of Biden responding this way in the future; anybody with doubts about his acuity should check the way his direct responses rattled Lester Holt.

    • originalK says:

      If your worldview tells you that it’s bad for women to become mothers but liberating for them to work 90 hours a week in a cubicle at the New York Times or Goldman Sachs, you’ve been had.

      JD Vance Twitter 12:37 PM · Jun 26, 2022

      Maybe Usha Vance, Amy Chua protege, former clerk for Kavanaugh and Roberts, was one of the “two reduced-hours attorneys (that) have been promoted to equity partner, with the expectation that the reduced-hours schedule would continue for as long as the attorneys desired” highlighted on the law firm’s website.

      He’s really just bashing women though, since most mothers work, and most women become mothers.

  22. HikaakiH says:

    It’s petty, I know, but I think the real advantage Vance had over other Republican candidates is that he’s the only one with fingers as short as Trump’s.

  23. Marinela says:

    MSNBC is pausing the shows, like Morning Joe, all of them actually, why?
    What are they worried about? That they get sued?
    So ridiculous. Now we need to watch the assassination attempt in a loop, or the Republican convention.
    Is hhis is the only news available to watch?
    Something is really fishy.
    I don’t watch Fox. No idea what/how they cover the news. I can only imagine.
    None of the MSNBC shows were instigating violence, whereas the violence was explicit from Trump and his enablers.

    Should have Biden is a loop discussing unity, and put it in context, loop discussing Trump instigating violence, and put it in context.

    • Matt___B says:

      It was a 1-day “pause”. Joe is back this morning ranting about the failures of the Secret Service.

  24. Zinsky123 says:

    Late to the party, but lots of interesting comments in this thread. Again, thank you Marcy and team. Some meta thoughts about the Vance nomination: Trump likes people who give up their supposed “values” for him. It shows that his dominance is so complete that they have essentially “sold their souls to him”. Vance was a Never Trumper who suggested Trump could become a “modern Hitler”. Autocrats, in general, like people who are easily compromised like the bearded turncoat from Ohio. At least Mike Pence tried to stay mainly true to his core “values” as absurd as they are.

  25. Zirczirc says:

    Unfortunately, it doesn’t matter what Vance said about Trump before. Remember “voodoo economics”? Collectively, the American electorate has a short memory, and as regards Republicans it forgives/forgets past transgressions. Knowing this, GOP politicians can embrace a profitable combination of cowardice and opportunism and go along for the ride. Any past inconvenient statements/actions will be airbrushed away like a disgraced Soviet general from a 1930s photograph. Meanwhile the press will scurry like squirrels as the GOP throws new tasty nuts out into the yard. The dems have to beat them by going at them hard and presenting some sort of hope. The inflation rate going down will help, but convincing the electorate that, economically, things are actually quite good and that Project 2025 is a recipe for disaster will be difficult going.

    Zirc

  26. Error Prone says:

    All I can add is calling the ticket: D. J. Trump and James David Vance. Aside from that, a Senator from Ohio I never would have voted for were I unfortunate enough to be in Ohio. It has always seemed a conservative State where Woody Hayes was its most outstanding citizen.

    Biden – Harris vs. Trump – Vance. Now we know the complete ticket we will be voting against. Perhaps of interet two web items I have yet to read, one referencing the other, tying Vance to Roberts/Heritage/Project 2025: https://www.alternet.org/jd-vance-project-2025-heritage/ which links to the other: https://newrepublic.com/post/183841/project-2025-overjoyed-trump-vice-president-vance
    It seems Trump wanting to distance from Project 2025 then picking Vance might make it easier to tie the ticket to the Project. Perhaps they want that, and Trump’s distancing tweet, clearly false, may have been his effort to get Proj. 2025 known to his base membership. However, Project 2025 is so boat-rockingly stupid that it should be tied tightly to that ticket, IMO.

    I know nothing about the authors of the two items, but recognize the sites. And I have yet to read them, but thought it helpful to get them on the thread soon because others might want to check them. Making much of Project 2025 seems already afoot, and a good play, again, IMO.

    • John Lehman says:

      ”….State where Woody Hayes was its most outstanding citizen.” You mean he wasn’t ?….you must be from Michigan.
      …”5 yards and a cloud of dust”…you mean…that Woody Hayes?
      -former buckeye … 44 years on the west coast now

  27. harpie says:

    HEADS UP, MICHIGAN!

    Marc Elias:
    https://bsky.app/profile/marcelias.bsky.social/post/3kxfkvdklsk2d
    Jul 16, 2024 at 8:09 AM

    Trump and the RNC marked the first day of their convention by suing to stop Michigan from providing veterans the opportunity to register to vote at the VA. [link]

    links to Democracy Docket:
    Trump Campaign, RNC Sue Whitmer Over Michigan Voter Registration Sites
    by Crystal Hill July 15, 2024

    […] The lawsuit filed Monday alleges the Democratic governor overstepped her authority when she issued a Dec. 18 directive allowing several state and federal agencies to be used as voter registration agencies (VRAs), including the Veterans Affairs (VA) agency and Michigan State Housing Development Authority. […]

    These Fvckers BELIEVE that only THEY can have “authority”.

    …attacking an Uppity Woman on the first day of their Convention.
    We need to UNDERSTAND what they’re showing us, and ACT accordingly.

    • harpie says:

      Next paragraph…another Uppity Woman:

      The suit says Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson also lacked the authority to unilaterally enter into an agreement with the Small Business Administration to designate SBA offices as VRAs in March. […]

      These FVCKERS BELIEVE this is their BIRTHRIGHT.

    • Rayne says:

      Funny how the RNC+Team Trump think this bit of the Constitution:

      Article I, Section 4: Elections
      The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof …

      is now relevant but a state legislature prescribing omission of certain candidates from the ballot isn’t, provided Trump-appointed SCOTUS jurists give their blessing.

    • harpie says:

      THEY ARE PLANNING TO CHALLENGE THE ELECTION EVEN IF THEY WIN

      https://bsky.app/profile/swin24.bsky.social/post/3kx3vsa7unk2s
      Jul 12, 2024 at 11:57 AM

      As @arawnsley.bsky.social and I documented here: THEY ARE PLANNING TO CHALLENGE THE ELECTION EVEN IF THEY WIN, so Trump and co. can try to pummel opposition to their anti-democratic election rigging philosophy into the ground. That’s the game [link]

      Links to:
      ‘Georgia Is Our Laboratory’: Inside Trump’s Plan to Rig 2024
      Team Trump sees Georgia as ‘a road map’ for putting Trump’s heads-I-win-tails-you-lose philosophy of elections into practice
      Rolling Stone Rawnsley / Suebsaeng June 8, 2024

      They CAN NOT WIN without CHEATING.

      • earlofhuntingdon says:

        Their plan seems to be to do away with elections. They can’t rig them all. God will anoint whomever is needed.

      • jdmckay8 says:

        I assumed something like this was in the works.

        I’d bet good $$ Mrs. Vance’s resignation was purposed to join this team, as led by Stephen Miller. That’s the “family” she wants to spend more time with.

        These guys are working overtime, in the shadows to avoid scrutiny, and I suspect will pounce with brute force come election time. No telling how many lawyers involved. Seems like higher caliber than the Easman’s and Cheese’s last time. Blitzkrieg.

  28. harpie says:

    https://bsky.app/profile/lolgop.bsky.social/post/3kxe4vjzmpk2p
    Jul 15, 2024 at 6:26 PM

    Yeah, so Vance is or was an investor in Rumble,
    which apparently monetizes pro-Nazi content. Is this correct? [link]

    Links to:
    Trump Campaign Ads Are Monetizing Pro-Nazi Content on Rumble
    Team Trump blames the streaming platform’s algorithm for placing its campaign ads against a video calling Nazi book burning “justified” and “awesome”
    [Rolling Stone] Tim Dickenson 3/14/24

    hmmmm…there was a lot happening in mid-March.

    Also published mid-March [3/13/24]: Don Moynihan’s [linked above]
    Make America Hungary Again
    MAGA’s obsession with Orban reveals they want authoritarianism, not greatness

  29. harpie says:

    Sarah Posner:
    https://bsky.app/profile/sarahposner.bsky.social/post/3kxe35mcos226
    Jul 15, 2024 at 5:54 PM

    “There’s the sense that the liberal order is so corrupt that elite Catholics have to find positions of influence and use them in a kind of noble and appropriate way,” says an expert on Catholic integralism, a movement Vance is tied to. [link]

    Links to:
    Five faith facts about Trump’s VP pick, JD Vance If Trump is elected,
    Vance would be the second Catholic vice president in US history — after Joe Biden.

    Religion News // Jack Jenkins, Aleja Hertzler-McCain // July 15, 2024

    • harpie says:

      Vance is an adult convert to Catholicism
      Vance converted to Catholicism in August of 2019, when he was baptized and confirmed at St. Gertrude Priory in Cincinnati, Ohio, by the Rev. Henry Stephan, a Dominican friar. […]

      Vance is tied to ‘Catholic integralism,’ an ideology that seeks Christian influence over society
      Vance is tied to an ideology known as “Catholic integralism,” [link] an intellectual movement that, experts say, prefers a “soft power” approach to exerting Christian influence over society. Thinkers in the movement herald the importance of a Christian “strategic adviser” to people in power. […]

      • Just Some Guy says:

        No wonder Ross Douthat loves him so much. They’re both middling-intellectual Catholic supremacists who think highly of themselves.

        • SteveBev says:

          @Harpie
          another data point/connection/influence is Oren Cass whose book Vance read at a crucial point in his struggle towards conversion and rethinking his theological and political outlook.

          1April 2020 he discusses his conversion in August 2019 at length in the Lamp
          https://thelampmagazine.com/blog/how-i-joined-the-resistance

          At a crucial point he reads
          “This is a passage from City of God, where Augustine summarizes the debauchery of Rome’s ruling class:
          [Quote] ….
          It was the best criticism of our modern age I’d ever read. A society oriented entirely towards consumption and pleasure, spurning duty and virtue. Not long after I first read these words, my friend Oren Cass published a book arguing that American policy makers have focused far too much on promoting consumption as opposed to productivity, or some other measure of wellbeing…
          And indeed it was this insight, more than any other, that ultimately led not just to Christianity, but to Catholicism“

          Oren Cass https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oren_Cass
          The Once and Future Worker: A Vision for the Renewal of Work in America. Feb 2019
          In February 2020, Cass established American Compass, an organization focusing on “what the post-Trump right-of-center is going to be.”[4] However, ahead of the 2024 election, American Compass laid out a set of economic policies intended for a second Trump administration.[5] American Compass is a member of the advisory board of Project 2025,

        • harpie says:

          re: American Compass, something from November I saved but haven’t read yet [OY! But now it’s not paywalled]:

          Jane MAYER
          https://twitter.com/JaneMayerNYer/status/1727320183910420631
          8:36 AM · Nov 22, 2023

          Something to think about when listening to Hewlett Foundation ads on NPR: Conservative Group Accidentally Reveals Its Secret Donors. Some of Them Are Liberal Orgs.

          And Omidyar is funding Trump’s Project 2025? [link]

          Conservative Group Accidentally Reveals Its Secret Donors. Some of Them Are Liberal Orgs. American Compass included five keys [sic] names on a 2022 tax statement that The Daily Beast obtained https://www.thedailybeast.com/conservative-group-accidentally-reveals-its-secret-donors-some-of-them-are-liberal-orgs Roger Stollenberger
          Updated Nov. 22, 2023 12:44PM EST / Published Nov. 22, 2023 4:58AM EST

      • SteveBev says:

        @Harpie your snip cut out this bit
        “According to an interview with American expatriate and writer Rod Dreher, who was present at the baptism, Vance chose St. Augustine as his patron saint.”

        Dreher is expatriated to Hungary where he was in 2021 a fellow at the Danube Institute, Orbán sponsored think tank. Dreher is a radical integralist Catholic.

        NB his book ‘The Benedict Option’ described by one critic Alan Levinovitz, a religious scholar at James Madison University, as “spiritual pornography,” the soul of which “is not love of God; it is bitter loathing of those who do not share it.”

        However, Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito cited The Benedict Option in a court ruling in favor of the freedom of hiring by two religious schools on July 8, 2020. Which occurrence Dreher crowed about greatly https://www.theamericanconservative.com/big-scotus-win-for-religious-liberty/

        • harpie says:

          How Viktor Orbán Conquered the Heritage Foundation Once the redoubt of Reaganism, the think tank has taken to promoting Trump’s favorite strongman.
          https://newrepublic.com/article/179776/heritage-foundation-viktor-orban-trump Casey Michel March 15, 2024

          […] The Danube Institute claims it is dedicated to “advocat[ing] conservative and national values and thinking,” which almost always ends up with the institute praising Orbán’s pronouncements. It has become, according to Hungarian journalists at Atlatszo, “one of the main tools of the Orbán government’s ideological expansion abroad”—and one of the “main vehicles” to “building a political network in the United States.”

          Such focus makes sense in terms of the Danube Institute’s personnel. For instance, the institute identifies arch-reactionary Rod Dreher as the “director of [its] Network Project.” The Southern Poverty Law Center obtained Dreher’s contract, which described him as an “agent” who would connect with a “circle of Christian-conservative contacts” on the institute’s behalf, while also writing publicly in praise of the Danube Institute’s “achievement[s].” Along the way, the Danube Institute began doling out significant grants to a range of other American conservatives, such as provocateur Christopher Rufo, who received tens of thousands of dollars, as well as a number of writers published in The American Conservative. […]

        • SteveBev says:

          @Harpie, You’re welcome.

          You were expanding on a slightly different point.
          And the reference in the original article was somewhat coy.

          But it occurred to me that the facts that Dreher was present at the baptism, and then published an interview with Vance about his spiritual journey etc, demonstrated a degree of closeness between the two which merited being highlighted in light of Dreher’s outlook and influence.

        • harpie says:

          Reply to SteveBev July 16, 2024 at 12:36 pm
          That is a great catch.

          I wonder if there was a “significant grant” “dole[d] out”
          with regard to that 8/XX/19 “conversion”.

        • earlofhuntingdon says:

          Good indicator that “Benedict” is closer to Levinovitz’s description than Alito’s: David Brooks praised it.

          I also think Alito would take pride in Levinovitz’s characterization. He seems to enjoy his “bitter loathing” of those who do not share his version of God and Her love. It’s a duty, really, like a Crusade. Sam was born about 900 years too late.

    • Error Prone says:

      Both Vance and Kevin Roberts are mid-life Catholic politicians akin to Leonard Leo and his Justices. Comes with an agenda?
      https://www.theamericanconservative.com/j-d-vance-becomes-catholic/ – by Rod Dreher – https://www.theamericanconservative.com/author/rod-dreher/
      Comes with what agenda? Project 2025?
      https://www.ncronline.org/news/catholic-leader-champions-heritage-foundations-right-wing-brand

      They are intense to have pregnant women give birth; it is not a preference, it is a dogma. Department of Life and all that entails. Tying Roberts and Vance together with a bow labeled “Project 2025 Bros.” would not anger me one bit. Even if done with a heavy hand and propagandist repetition.

      • Ginevra diBenci says:

        To me, what remains the most interesting thing about these dogmatic, revanchist new Catholics, whom one would naively assume to be Christians, is the utter lack of Christ in their discourse.

        The closest they usually get is the Pauline Epistles, which paved the way for many a patriarchist rule maker. But their true passion is the Old Testament, with all its wonderful wars and death and punishments. Jesus is Love…what use is that? Hatred and fear are far more useful to the Drehers and Vances of this world.

  30. Clare Kelly says:

    “I think the rejection of the American family is perhaps the most pernicious and the most evil thing that the left has done in this country,” said Vance, a father of three.

    He then went on to suggest that several Democratic politicians, like Kamala Harris and New Jersey senator Cory Booker, should not have political power because they do not have children.”

    Carter Sherman
    The Guardian
    July 16, 2024
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/16/jd-vance-abortion-rights-groups

    • c-i-v-i-l says:

      “The Democrats are talking about giving the vote to 16-year-olds,” Vance noted. “Let’s do this instead. Let’s give votes to all children in this country, but let’s give control over those votes to the parents of the children.” He continued, asking, “Doesn’t this mean that nonparents don’t have as much of a voice as parents? Doesn’t this mean that parents get a bigger say in how democracy functions?” He answered with a simple “yes” after saying “the Atlantic and the Washington Post and all the usual suspects” would criticize him.

      https://web.archive.org/web/20210726193813/https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/07/j-d-vance-maybe-parents-should-get-more-votes.html

      • Clare Kelly says:

        Given that the Republican platform is advocating “fetal personhood”, imagine the bonus for a MAGA voter pregnant with triplets!

        Would this also mean that each egg counts for a vote, or do they have to be fertilized first?

        Inquiring minds want to know!

      • Magbeth4 says:

        Vance was “educated” at Yale. How did this dingbat ever graduate with this level of reasoning(sic)?

        With every utterance of every politician who graduated from Yale
        (DeSantis, et al), I continue to be amazed at the poor education people are receiving for the mount of tuition it costs to attend Yale.

        • Clare Kelly says:

          Ms Blatt: Justice Alito, I don’t know how old you are, but you went to law school, you’re very smart, you’re analytical, you have hindsight bias, and maybe you know something –

          Justice Alito: Well, I went to a law school where I didn’t learn any law –

          ~Jack Daniel’s Properties, Inc. v. VIP Products
          3/22/23

        • earlofhuntingdon says:

          There are many forms of intelligence. Kris Kobach, for example, graduated summa from Harvard College, earned a doctorate from Oxford and a law degree from Yale. But his street smarts are virtually non-existent, he’s a lousy litigator, and probably can’t find his car in the parking lot.

          Vance’s street smarts, on the other hand, are only exceeded by his ambition. He doesn’t have to believe anything he says, but he’s willing to say anything. Much like Trump.

      • Dark Phoenix says:

        I’m sure the US would be much better off if one of the most powerful voters there is Josh Duggar…

    • Rayne says:

      Vance’s bullshit is just begging for an Angry Mom post from me.

      How is it freedom to be forced to have children no matter one’s personal situation? No matter one’s background? No matter one’s health, mental or physical?

      Ugh. I’m going be stewing on this, elevating my blood pressure.

      • Clare Kelly says:

        Re: “Vance’s bullshit is just begging for an Angry Mom post from me.”

        Do eeet! ;)

        (But as a cathartic amusement exercise to lower your blood pressure. We need you!)

        Once again, this makes IVF a sticky wicket, as it were, for the MAGA platform.

      • harpie says:

        Sorry, Rayne.
        I suddenly had to go out in the 90-degree heat and do some pruning. LOL!

        One thing that really gets to me is that
        VANCE is the beneficiary of a very COEXIST-friendly Hindu spouse,
        but his party wants to FORCE all the rest of us to live by precepts that are NOT ours,
        ie: does NOT want to COEXIST.

        Also…echo Clare Kelly re: Angry Mom post.

        • Savage Librarian says:

          “I suddenly had to go out in the 90-degree heat and do some pruning. LOL!”

          I did the same today! Ugh!

        • Savage Librarian says:

          And JD allowed himself to convert from evangelical Protestant to Catholic (just the opposite of what Pence did) and thinks it’s just swell to allow his religion to influence politics. But he doesn’t think married people (especially women) should be allowed to divorce. What a control freak. Sounds like another malignant narcissist.

        • earlofhuntingdon says:

          Vance is a more confident, aggressive, and ruthless Brett Kavanaugh. His ambition exceeds Kavanaugh’s. He would have seen the writing on the wall, concerning a likely Catholic majority on the Supreme Court.

        • ExRacerX says:

          “I suddenly had to go out in the 90-degree heat and do some pruning.”

          For some reason, that conjured up the memory of the photos of Dubya “clearing brush” on his ranch back in the day.

          Stay cool!

        • Dark Pheonix says:

          Vance is also one of those assholes who think that women should stay with abusive men “for the children”…

        • Ginevra diBenci says:

          harpie, you inspired me to go out in the 90 degree heat and prune my bleeding heart bush. I inherited a garden in our new place, and am trying to bring myself up to first gear if not highway speed when it comes to tending to plants. Animals have always been my strong suit.

          Vance is opportunistic in all things. His so-called “faith” strikes me as jumping on the conservative (meaning reactionary and creepy) Catholic bandwagon along with his Fed Soc friends like Leonard Leo. They can and do dictate his beliefs, which he churns into policy, and in return they funnel unimaginable amounts of money in his general direction.

          Now that a (majority Catholic) SCOTUS has made bribery fine and legal for POTUS (and presumably VPOTUS too), there’s no reason for this sweet little setup to change.

        • harpie says:

          Ginevra! Good to see you…seems as though you might be settling in in the new place! Have fun with the gardening!

          SL: I hope it helped! Take it easy. :-)

          Thanks, ExRacerX! It was great to get back inside! Am hydrating ever since. ;-P

    • c-i-v-i-l says:

      Divorcees, Vance argued, are quitters who ruin their children’s lives.

      “This is one of the great tricks that I think the sexual revolution pulled on the American populace, which is the idea that like, ‘Well, OK, these marriages were fundamentally, you know, they were maybe even violent, but certainly they were unhappy. And so getting rid of them and making it easier for people to shift spouses like they change their underwear, that’s going to make people happier in the long term,” Vance told the audience at Pacifica Christian High School in Southern California.

      … he conveniently has no quarrel with Donald Trump, who has been divorced twice, has children with three women and a lengthy history of chronic adultery.

      Vance can play all the word games he likes, but when he’s deriding “people” for not having good enough reasons for ending marriages, there’s little doubt it’s women he’s mostly thinking of. It’s usually women who are being chastised in these right-wing laments about divorce. Women have always been the ones expected to suffer adultery, abuse, or just plain unhappiness to hold a marriage together. Divorced men like Trump don’t get rebuked, especially by the Christian right, even when it’s their adulteries and abuses that caused the divorce. Ultimately, the blame is placed on the wives for not working harder to save the marriage.
      This sexist double standard explains why Trump’s biggest base of support is divorced men, as pollster Daniel Cox demonstrated last week. …

      https://www.salon.com/2024/07/16/shift-spouses-like-they-change-their-underwear-jd-vance-decried-divorce–but-now-loves/

      Vance has also said “Part of the problem American decline is people who believe that not having kids is, like, a lifestyle brand … [that having kids] is bad for the environment, bad for the climate,” and in response to the question “Should a woman be forced to carry a child to term after she has been the victim of incest or rape?” said “I think the question betrays a certain presumption that’s wrong. It’s not whether a woman should be forced to bring a child to term, it’s whether a child should be allowed to live, even though the circumstances of that child’s birth are somehow inconvenient or a problem to the society.”
      https://spectrumnews1.com/oh/columbus/DearOhio/2021/09/21/dear-ohio–senate-candidate-j-d–vance

      There’s more in the audio clip, but that’s as much as I care to transcribe.

      As if bring a pregnancy to term after being raped is just a matter of “inconvenience.” He’s now trying to moderate his stance on abortion, but this is what he actually believes.

      • earlofhuntingdon says:

        There’s no position too extreme for J.D. I wonder how his super successful wife feels about his misogyny?

        BTW, he calls his two years as an enlisted Marine (before college) the defining moment of his life. He served as a pubic relations guy in Iraq.

  31. Savage Librarian says:

    To me JD Vance looks like the job security pick for Susie Wiles. It’s my understanding that he was her #1 choice. And it seems in character with who she is and how she operates. Like Trump, JD is a fabulist who manipulates perception for personal and political gain and control. Not only does Susie seem to admire men like these, she also seems to share these traits, as can be seen in a Politico article by Michael Kruse, 4/26/24, “The Most Feared and Least Known Political Operative in America.”

    From a psychological perspective, Susie confides to Kruse that Trump is very much like her own father, Pat Summerall. The obituary below says, “George Allen Summerall was born May 10, 1930, in Lake City, Fla., with a deformed foot that required surgery to repair. Reared primarily by his paternal grandmother, he got the nickname “Pat” when he was a boy.” It also mentions he got a masters degree in Russian history and planned to teach.

    https://www.latimes.com/local/obituaries/la-xpm-2013-apr-16-la-me-pat-summerall-20130417-story.html

    It doesn’t take much of a stretch of the imagination to see how Wiles might think JD Vance fits in the same mold as her own father. JD also claimed to have a difficult childhood and to be raised by his grandparents. JD also had a name change (several, in fact) from James Donald Bowman to James Hamel to James David Vance. Like Susie’s father, Vance is also interested in advancing Russian interests.

    I spent 3 of my preteen years living in a town just 35 miles from where JD grew up. It wasn’t and isn’t Appalachia. It’s definitely outside the outer perimeters. But fabulists love to self promote. Oh, I also think Trump probably likes to be compared to Hitler. He has freely admitted his admiration for him.

    • Ginevra diBenci says:

      Thank you, SL. I did not know the Wiles-Vance connection, or its genesis. And I always forget she is Summerall’s daughter.

      I lived in central Ohio for two years. Spent most of my nonworking hours driving around the state, exploring in spokes-of-a-wheel fashion. It’s a fascinatingly varied state. My recollection is that Vance’s hometown was nothing like the Appalachian foothills outside of Raleigh, NC where I grew up. I’ve never understood the descriptor “Appalachian” applied to him, except as something people who don’t know the actual region might be gulled into adopting to flatter his self-image.

      • earlofhuntingdon says:

        Oh, my, yes. Vance is a fabulist. I see his book as a way to differentiate himself from the folks living on the wrong side of the tracks in his home town of Middletown, which is widely regarded as one of the top ten best small towns in Ohio. Rather like Andy Griffith’s Mayberry. If he felt poor, it was on an adjusted curve. He was well-to-do by real Appalachian standards.

        Vance was also applying for wingnut welfare, because the thrust of his book is that the pain of the poor is largely self-inflicted, and not a function of corporate greed, systemic economic change, and a very tilted playing field.

        I would note Vance happily accepted the socialism of in-state tuition rates at Ohio State and scholarships at YLS. But that was before he saw the light.

    • Error Prone says:

      Pat Summerall played with Jack Kemp, and it looks like they shared politics.

      When Kemp was quarterback with Buffalo Cookie Gilchrist was running back, and said he would not block for Kemp, saying it in vivid terms. They differed in outlook. So a line traces from Jack Kemp to Susie Wiles, Trump, and J.D. Vance? It figures.

  32. Savage Librarian says:

    Rayne and Marcy, I apologize for getting stuck in the pokey. I think I exceeded the word limit. Thanks for all your help.

    • Rayne says:

      No biggie, SL. Sorry I couldn’t clear it faster. May have been a combination of active link and unknown trigger words.

  33. Error Prone says:

    An earlier comment mentioned the wife quitting the high power law firm. They were students together at Yale Law School, marrying after graduation. Her Wiki page – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usha_Vance – notes:


    She attended Yale University, graduating summa cum laude with a bachelor’s degree in history, with membership in Phi Beta Kappa. She then attended Clare College, Cambridge, in England as a Gates Cambridge Scholar, receiving a Master of Philosophy degree in early modern history in 2010.[11] In 2013, she graduated Juris Doctor at Yale Law School, where she was the Executive Development Editor of the Yale Law Journal and Managing Editor of the Yale Journal of Law & Technology.[12][13][14]

    While at Yale Law School, Chilukuri met her future husband, J. D. Vance, a relationship encouraged by their professor Amy Chua.[15] In 2013, Chilukuri and Vance collaborated to organize a discussion group at Yale focused on the topic of “social decline in white America.”[16]
    Career

    She served as a law clerk from 2014–2015 for then–District of Columbia Circuit Judge Brett Kavanaugh and from 2017–2018 for Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts.[17] She was admitted to the DC Bar in May 2019 and worked for the law firm Munger, Tolles & Olson LLP until July 2024.[18]

    She has served on the board of the Gates Cambridge Alumni Association and as secretary of the board of the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra.[19]

    So a Kavanaugh pre-SCOTUS and Roberts SCOTUS clerkship, and a Gates money connection re her Cambridge scholarship. The pair are connected Catholic and big money connected, JD converted Catholic 2019, she had the two Catholic clerkships, but apparently remains Hindu. Wiki noted both her parents hold professorships. Living in Ohio, three children so far, so she must have been a remote big firm lawyer, the firm headquartered in the Bay Area, office in DC. Commercial litigation was her main practice area. At a guess, appellate practice more than motions or trial, if remote and in light of the clerkships.
    A real power couple. Guessing, Federalist Society members, both. Leonard Leo picked the Justices, maybe too the VP.

    • Just Some Guy says:

      “Social decline in white America”?!?!?!? Fucking barf.

      Assholes like the Vances are the biggest contributors to this alleged decline!

      • Rayne says:

        A little more thoughtfulness and a little less emotional dumping, thanks.

        Vance’s family tree and history display symptoms of social decline but not in values as much as adequate education including analytical systems thinking which can identify root causes.

        When we let “conservatives” conserve their profits cutting back on taxes necessary for public services, society produces inadequately educated citizens — even those who manage to get a Yale degree.

        • Ginevra diBenci says:

          Or maybe *especially* those who get a Yale degree?

          The far-right wing of elected politics is littered with with Yale Law degrees, sought for the access they guarantee to various upper echelons–law, academia, but mainly politics, which subsumes media when senators moonlight as podcasters and congressmen rush off the floor for their Fox hits.

          Living in New Haven makes one aware of how many students Yale Law School admits each year. Yes, it’s highly selective, but hundreds of them show up every August. Graduates number in the thousands. As some prominent examples have shown, it’s perfectly possible to graduate at the top of your class without once opening your mind.

        • Rayne says:

          Reply to Ginevra diBenci
          July 16, 2024 at 5:26 pm

          I would like to say *especially* Yale law degrees but someone I respected deeply was a Yale grad and not at all an asshole. I’ve also known other Ivy League grads who’ve run the spectrum.

          Vance’s problem began before Yale, continues after Yale — he’s out of touch while desperately trying to find and hang on to a touchstone which will cement his identity. He has and will vacillate for the lack of an internal core identity and ethos he demands of everyone else.

        • Ginevra diBenci says:

          Replying to Rayne
          16 July 24 6:10 p.m.

          I’m sorry, Rayne; I should have prefaced my disparagement by clarifying that I am an Ivy League graduate myself. While it has taken decades of therapy for me to achieve true self-respect, I went to school (two Ivies, undergrad and grad) with a number of people I liked and respect greatly.

          I’ve worked with Yale Law grads who are wonderful human beings. The Ivy League has always attracted the super-ambitious, however, and in recent decades those law schools (Harvard and Yale) seem unwilling or unable to weed out candidates using them as stepping stones to power. In fact, they (at least Yale) seem to cultivate them.

          I hope this trend passes.

  34. MsJennyMD says:

    “Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the party, and they’re sure trying to do so, it’s going to be a terrible… problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can’t and won’t compromise. I know, I’ve tried to deal with them.” —Barry Goldwater

    “I am frankly sick and tired of the political preachers telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in A, B, C, and D. Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me? ” – Barry Goldwater

    https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/369997.Barry_M_Goldwater

    • Matt Foley says:

      Trump committed at least 34 felonies and 1 rape but says the bible is his favorite book. So there’s that.

    • Ginevra diBenci says:

      MsJenny, thank you for this reminder of exactly how radicalized the radical right has really become.

      The first political book I read was Goldwater’s Conscience of a Conservative. I did it to impress a boy my sophomore year of high school. Joe had started the first Young Republicans club I ever heard of; he was the only member. Carrying Goldwater’s slim blue paperback around as ostentatiously as possible seemed like my best play. (I later learned Joe just wanted to go home after school and get high alone. I doubt he ever knew about my crush.)

      I liked Goldwater’s book. It didn’t “convert” me, but I thought he made some good points and I liked how he wrote. My parents, liberal civil rights workers who put their lives on the line in Deep South in the early 1960s, were “appalled” by my reading choice–a bonus for a teenager with little else to rebel against.

      William Buckley would leave me cold. But Goldwater started a habit for me of seeking out books and articles by The Other Side, something I believe in deeply because it helps us remember that they too are human.

      • MsJennyMD says:

        You are welcome. Goldwater came to mind after watching the documentary “Bad Faith.” He was conscious of the movement years ago warning the public about the radical religious right. Riveting to watch. Highly recommend. On Amazon Prime, 99 cents. Worth the money.
        BAD FAITH: Christian Nationalism’s Unholy War on Democracy. Trailer #2
        (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WYseVO29ZU&t=7s)

        • Savage Librarian says:

          I watched it. It was informative. I do think there were some gaps in it, though. Some parts were repetitive and some important things were glossed over or left out entirely.

          I was a little surprised about two-thirds the way through when they briefly focused on micro-targeting. They showed a map of a county, which happened to be the county where I live. It did make me wonder why they used that as an example.

      • CovariantTensor says:

        Buckley’s “Firing Line” show helped me cut my teeth on critical thinking in politics. As an exercise, I would try to construct counter-arguments against him. Usually it wasn’t easy, and I never got to test them mano a mano with him.

        In an interview with Charlie Rose he once said he didn’t discuss politics unless he was being paid to. He and I had in common amateur classical musicianship, an affinity for Bach in particular, and for keyboard instruments from Bach’s time. Given all that, I probably would have gotten on OK with him.

        Also to his credit: way back when Trump first attempted to run for president as a third party candidate, Buckley recognized him for the demagogue he is; and he admitted that had he known what he knew later, he would not have supported the 2003 invasion of Iraq (lots of “conservatives” to this day refuse to).

  35. Matt Foley says:

    “We are, like it or not, the party of lower-income, lower-education white people….”
    -J.D.Vance

    Fact check: TRUE.

  36. earlofhuntingdon says:

    Nancy Pelosi might spend less time networking to replace Joe Biden and more time preparing for what to do when Republican state officials throw the election to the House of Representatives. It votes by state. Republicans control a majority of state governments. They have already said there’s enough “evidence” to challenge any result – meaning any winner but Trump.

    • Clare Kelly says:

      I’m pleased to see the Congressional Progressive Caucus*, whom Nancy Pelosi vilified, largely support Biden/Harris.

      *The CPC is the second largest Democratic Caucus in the House, with 98 members as of March 6, 2024.

    • jdmckay8 says:

      Its not just Pelosi. It’s dem leadership across the board. Seems a little unfair to single out Nancy. I learned a long time ago, playing it safe is in the long run, not so safe. We are in the midst of those moments that define people’s lives, for better or worse. Too many dems, I think, have not learned this lesson.

      • Clare Kelly says:

        I can’t speak to its veracity, but I think EOH was referring to a blurb in a Politico opinion piece, which has been repeated by a number of other outlets [as one does /s].

        I won’t link to it but 19th paragraph:
        “Former Speaker Nancy Pelosi, convinced Biden will lose, has been working the phones since June 27 in hopes of finding a way to ease him off the ticket.”

        Yesterday’s piece is by Jonathan Martin, entitled:
        “Trump Once Unified Democrats and Divided Republicans. The Shooting And Debate Turned the Tables.”

        • jdmckay8 says:

          Thx. If that story is accurate, I’m disappointed in her. Still, at least she’s doing it out of the limelight. Plenty of other dems doing it in front of cameras. I think that stuff belies lack of courage and more… lack of thorough preparation in knowing this moment we’re in.

        • Ginevra diBenci says:

          I would treat anything from Politico, especially Martin, with extra care. I don’t see how “the shooting” in particular can be lumped in with the debate as some sort of combined inexorable force; it’s too recent for any effect on public opinion to be measurable.

  37. synergies says:

    Under A Bus: I’m 73. A gop never gets elected president unless some Democrats vote for them. The classic example is after negotiating (Contragate) the Iranians to hold the US hostages, a failed rescue mission (helicopters didn’t function well in a sand environment) Jimmy Carter who was quite ahead in the polls, was defeated.
    Point being Vance with a person of color wife & kids, will that swing enough voters? Combined with the self defeating (self hating IMO) Democrats who have never learned the lesson, one doesn’t diss and this time it’s way more than diss, the Presidential candidate, especially a current President.
    The insane evil dictator candidate will throw Mr. & Mrs. Vance under the bus if elected. Pretty desperate gamble.
    Myself I keep reflecting that Jimmy in his real beautiful spirit is still with us. May his truly completely a Democrat in the FDR spirit mold like Biden, channel us to victory.
    Usha vs. Kamala vs. a multi personalities insane dictator for the new oligarchies? Lapdog anyone? : )

  38. earlofhuntingdon says:

    In short, J.D. Vance is the future of the Republican Party. Trump is how it gets there.

    • harpie says:

      Thanks very much, c-i-v-i-l!

      I haven’t read it yet, but early in that piece ProPublica/Documented links to their previous piece on Teneo, from 3/9/23. It also is well worth a read.

      Inside the “Private and Confidential” Conservative Group That Promises to “Crush Liberal Dominance” Leonard Leo, a key architect of the Supreme Court’s conservative supermajority, is now the chairman of Teneo Network, a group that aims to influence all aspects of American politics and culture.

      • Ginevra diBenci says:

        Thanks to both c-i-v-i-l and harpie for these links. This is exactly what I was talking about in a comment I made earlier about Vance’s opportunistic Catholicism. In some ways it’s the biggest trend going among wannabe authoritarians.

    • Matt Foley says:

      What does Vance think of Republican Protestants who don’t believe in Catholic transubstantiation? Are they going to hell? What does he think of Republican Catholics who ignored the pope’s statement that vaccines are an act of love and a moral obligation?

    • earlofhuntingdon says:

      Vance should know. He’s just done a deal with him that not even Daniel Webster could get him out of.

  39. vigetnovus says:

    Vance is a scary dude. He is intelligent, dogmatic, and power-hungry. Not a great combination. I feel like he was chosen as he would slot nicely in for Trump with the MAGA extremists as a Trump successor/replacement, but is far more cunning and ruthless. There’s a reason Peter Thiel chose him.

  40. harpie says:

    Kate Starbird, “Researcher of online rumors and disinformation” [bio]:
    https://bsky.app/profile/katestarbird.bsky.social/post/3kxg2sewddk26
    Jul 16, 2024 at 12:53 PM

    Our team just published a “rapid” analysis of some of the rumors we’ve been tracking since the assassination attempt on Saturday, drawing on these foundational understandings of “collective sensemaking” during crises: [link]

    Links to:
    Making sense of rumors about the Trump assassination attempt
    Center for an Informed Public Jul 15, 2024

  41. missinggeorgecarlin says:

    I just read that Don Jr. and Eric are who talked Don Sr. into choosing Vance.
    JD: “Peter (Theil), if you hit Don Jr. and Eric up with some $$$, they talk Dad into picking me.”

    Or who knows, maybe they purchased the position directly from Don Sr. himself.

    We have just under four (4) months to garner up everybody we can. Billionaires vs The Rest of Us

  42. Matt Foley says:

    OT:
    WTF is with the Franklin Graham tv prayer ads recently? You know Trump/MAGA is behind this somehow.

  43. TooLoose LeTruck says:

    Seriously, why anyone would trust someone like Vance, who willingly does such a complete about face on his own prior opinion of Donald Trump, simply out of personal ambition/greed, is beyond me.

    That’s one of my cardinal rules in life… when you know someone’s a liar, like Vance is proving to be here, DON’T TRUST THEM, period.

    JUST DON’T… EVER… PERIOD.

    As has been said so many of late, one of the GOP’s superpowers is their shamelessness…

    They apparently feel no embarrassment or shame at all when they spin in a new, self-serving direction like Vance has done here.

    And in closing, I’d like to congratulate myself here, for showing some admirable restrain in the use of overly colorful language to express how I really feel about the GOP these days.

  44. harpie says:

    WaPo BREAKING:
    https://bsky.app/profile/washingtonpost.com/post/3kxgjnijdsc2s
    Jul 16, 2024 at 5:19 PM

    Breaking news: President Biden is finalizing plans to endorse major changes to the Supreme Court in the coming weeks, including proposals for legislation to establish term limits for the justices and an enforceable ethics code, according to two people briefed on the plans. [link]

    Links to:
    Biden set to announce support for major Supreme Court changes The President has discussed the plans with constitutional scholars and members of Congress in recent weeks

  45. jdmckay8 says:

    What an outstanding discussion in this thread today. Just a shout-out to everyone, especially Harpie (whoever he or she is /g). Can’t think of anywhere else I’d get this thorough an illumination on everything to do with JD.

  46. Clare Kelly says:

    Replying to Ginevra diBenci
    July 16, 2024 at 5:49 pm

    I’m not at risk of taking gleeful ‘Democrats in disarray!’ opinion pieces to heart, including those by Politico.

    Thanks for your concern.

    • Ginevra diBenci says:

      Clare, I hope that you of all people did not take that comment personally. Nancy Pelosi did at one time receive what I believed was unfair criticism here, and while Politico can contribute news of value, it can also feed the same gossip machine that loves to target Pelosi because she’s prominent, female, outspoken, and largely (not always) effective.

      The current discussion feels a lot more fair and balanced, however, thanks largely to participation by folks like you bringing substantive and thoughtful comments to bear. I’m taking this as an opportunity to say I notice, and I appreciate what you do.

    • earlofhuntingdon says:

      Elmo’s promises are worth about the same as a Trump promise.

      Other reporting calls it a contribution, not a slush fund.

  47. c-i-v-i-l says:

    From Jessica Valenti’s Abortion, Every Day substack:

    I’ll be reporting on the media response to Vance’s nomination in the daily report today, but I had to flag this absolutely wild lie from The New York Times as soon as possible. The Times reported yesterday that Vance opposes a national ban, quoting from this 2022 interview [https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/elections/2022/10/12/ohio-senate-race-j-d-vance-discusses-economy-2020-election-opioids/69522502007/] as evidence: “Ohio is going to want to have a different abortion policy from California, from New York, and I think that’s reasonable.”

    But let’s look at the full quote and what Vance actually said:

    Vance: I’d like [abortion] to be primarily a state issue. Ohio is going to want to have a different abortion policy from California, from New York, and I think that’s reasonable.

    I want Ohio to be able to make its own decisions, and I want Ohio’s elected legislators to make those decisions. But I think it’s fine to sort of set some minimum national standard.

    Let’s be serious; this is journalistic malpractice. The Times has deceptively edited a quote to make it appear as if Vance opposes a national ban, even though the full quote is a literal call for federal legislation. I don’t even know what to say anymore.

    https://jessica.substack.com/p/jd-vance-on-abortion

    • c-i-v-i-l says:

      And more:

      “I certainly would like abortion to be illegal nationally” (https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/17/politics/kfile-jd-vance-abortion-comments/index.html)

      He also signed onto a letter from Republicans in Congress that highlights the Comstock Act (18 U.S. Code § 1461) and says “The reckless distribution of abortion drugs by mail or other carriers to pregnant mothers who have not been examined in-person by a physician is not only dangerous and unsafe, it is criminal. We demand that you act swiftly and in accordance with the law, shut down all mail-order abortion operations, and hold abortionists, pharmacists, international traffickers, and online purveyors, who break the Federal mail-order abortion laws, accountable. We also demand that, in light of these laws, you cease efforts to prevent States from regulating or prohibiting abortion drugs.” (https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24834197-20230123-letter-on-comstock-to-doj)

    • c-i-v-i-l says:

      And still more:

      Sen. J.D. Vance (R-Ohio), Donald Trump’s pick for vice presidential nominee, pressured federal regulators last June to kill a privacy rule that prevents police from accessing the medical records of people seeking reproductive services, according to documents reviewed by The Lever. The rule was designed to prevent state and local police in anti-abortion states from using private records to hunt down and prosecute people who cross state lines in search of abortion services. If the Trump-Vance ticket wins this year’s presidential election, the new administration could rescind the rule protecting abortion records from police investigation.

      https://www.levernews.com/j-d-vance-wants-police-to-track-people-who-have-abortions/

      I wish they’d have shared some of those records.

      More on Vance wanting a federal ban:
      “Republican Sen. J.D. Vance of Ohio told reporters, ‘We can’t give in to the idea that the federal Congress has no role in this matter …'”
      https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/election-results-republicans-eye-national-abortion-ban-rcna124365

      Vance is an anti-abortion extremist.

  48. c-i-v-i-l says:

    President Biden pointed to the recent attack on former president Donald Trump in renewing his call for a ban on assault weapons such as the AR-15. An AR-style weapon was used in the shooting at a Trump campaign rally, “just as it was an assault weapon that killed so many others, including children,” he said.

    “It’s time to outlaw them,” Biden said, speaking to the NAACP convention in Las Vegas on Tuesday, adding that “I did it once and I will do it again.” Biden successfully negotiated a 10-year ban on assault weapons as a senator in 1994.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/07/17/biden-assault-weapons-ban-ar15-trump/

    I know that it won’t pass in this Congress, but Democrats should do this and make Republicans deal with the contrast between the weapon having been used against Trump and their own pro-assault-rifle stance.

  49. CovariantTensor says:

    Vance is hardly the first Republican to be highly critical of Trump, then do a 180. Graham and Cruz come to mind. It seems Orwellian. But the GOP always seemed to do the “party unity” thing better than the Democrats (who are currently bickering in public about whether Biden should drop out, which is a huge mistake, however you feel about the question).

    I think that when a Republican criticizes Trump, then realizes his political career depends on his endorsement, and comes groveling for it, it feeds his ego. That’s where some of the Trump/Vance synergy is coming from.

  50. Twaspawarednot says:

    This has been a very educational experience to read these comments. The problem is that these are complex points of view. Easy answers in 5 words or less are candy for politically lazy minds.

  51. Booksellerb4 says:

    So glad this thread is still active. As an avid reader and irascible former and current bookseller/book lender/recommender, I would just like to add that his (unadVanced) hillbilly-ass book sucked big ones. Would not rec except to those most diligent in pursuit of the whole story wrt political candidates/authors.

  52. harpie says:

    NationalSecurityCounselors on CROOKS’ profile:
    [he describes himself in another thread – which I will post – as a former “intel profiler”]

    https://bsky.app/profile/natlseccnslrs.bsky.social/post/3kxkulgbhgi2e
    Jul 18, 2024 at 10:45 AM

    From all appearances Crooks was open to shooting either Trump or Biden, along with a couple other figures on either side.

    He was raised by a registered Libertarian and a registered Democrat, and his father was profiled as a pro-gun Trump supporter. They had MAGA yard signage.

    He himself did things like carve chess sets for blind people, taking care to mark them with braille.

    I think I’m starting to figure this guy out.
    What follows next is all speculation, so you have been warned. […]

    4) Both of his parents, even his registered Democratic mother, were profiled as pro-gun, and so he likely grew up with the belief that guns are the answer to most problems. […]

    • harpie says:

      Following directly:

      5) He likely didn’t care who he killed, as long as it made the politicians and parties stop fighting so his parents would stop fighting. So in a way the political rhetoric DID play a role.

      Throw in the fact that he may have been suffering from symptoms that he thought were Major Depressive Disorder and you have a recipe for someone who will do anything to make the negative emotions stop.

      This may be completely wrong. It may be completely right. It will probably be somewhere in the middle.

      But what it SHOULD do is convince everyone that mental health is EVERYONE’S problem. [end]

      This was the previous THREAD I mentioned:

      https://bsky.app/profile/natlseccnslrs.bsky.social/post/3kxdeszetr32l
      Jul 15, 2024 at 11:15 AM

      Important thing to remember while we all try to weather the assassination discourse. There are only two (2!) things that are always true when a private individual (i.e. not a govt) attempts to assassinate someone. What’s missing says volumes though.

      1) The would-be assassin is suffering mental distress; and
      2) The would-be assassin believes that killing the target is necessary to alleviate that distress.

      That’s it. But there’s a lot packed in there. [THREAD]

  53. Clare Kelly says:

    “ J.D. Vance Left His Venmo Public. Here’s What It Shows
    The Republican VP nominee’s Venmo network reveals connections ranging from the architects of Project 2025 to enemies of Donald Trump—and the populist’s close ties to the very elites he rails against.”

    https://www.wired.com/story/jd-vance-venmo/

  54. c-i-v-i-l says:

    I appreciated this pair of juxtaposed photos, one of 1960s white segregationist protesters and one of white RNC attendees yesterday holding up “Mass Deportation Now!” signs, and I thought that others might as well: https://bsky.app/profile/earlofedgecombe.bsky.social/post/3kxl342jyii2z
    I went in search of more info about the B&W photo. It appears on the cover of the book Mothers of Massive Resistance — White Women and the Politics of White Supremacy and is a photo of women protesting Ruby Bridges’ integration of William Franz Elementary School in Louisiana in 1960. I haven’t been able to find the photographer though.

  55. Clare Kelly says:

    Given Vance’s (Trump’s, and Adam Schiff’s) stance on this extremist Israeli government’s devastation of the Occupied Palestinian Territories, I’m adding this to the open thread:

    “World Court says Israel’s settlement policies are in breach of international law”
    Reuters
    July 19, 20246:56 AM PDTUpdated 17 min ago
    https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/world-court-says-israels-settlement-policies-are-breach-international-law-2024-07-19/

    This is a developing story.

  56. earlofhuntingdon says:

    Whew. Found it. I thought I’d never find an open thread. It took, 2.3 seconds of scrolling.

    Come on, people. Rayne does not do this work for a living, She has a day job, family, and golf-widowhood to deal with, too.

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