Hunter Biden Found Guilty on All Charges
An unsurprising result.
Let the appeals begin. That said, the conviction on the two documents charges make any appeal more difficult.
Joe Biden’s statement:
As I said last week, I am the President, but I am also a Dad. Jill and I love our son, and we are so proud of the man he is today. So many families who have had loved ones battle addiction understand the feeling of pride seeing someone you love come out the other side and be so strong and resilient in recovery. As I also said last week, I will accept the outcome of this case and will continue to respect the judicial process as Hunter considers an appeal. Jill and I will always be there for Hunter and the rest of our family with our love and support. Nothing will ever change that.
Hunter Biden’s statement:
I am more grateful today for the love and support I experienced this last week from Melissa, my family, my friends, and my community than I am disappointed by the outcome. Recovery is possible by the grace of God, and I am blessed to experience that gift one day at a time.
Abbe Lowell’s statement:
We are naturally disappointed by today’s verdict. We respect the jury process, and as we have done throughout this case, we will continue to vigorously pursue all the legal challenges available to Hunter. Through all he has been through in his recovery, including this trial, Hunter has felt grateful for and blessed by the love and support of his family.
Update: Juror Ten gave a fairly long interview with CNN. It sounds like the only thing the jury had doubts about today was the materiality of the lie on Count One.
OOF.
The system is corrupt. Dr. Wheeler has pointed that out repeatedly. What else is there to say?
I think Marcy has pointed out the issues with *this* case.
One thing that Marcy’s reporting on this case illuminated for me is the scale of “normal” prosecutorial dickishness. That many of Hines’ actions that seem outrageous to me (suppressing exculpatory evidence like the original form, sheep-dipping the prosecution team, etc.) are all in the normal realm. Not that they happen on every case, but they’re also not /that/ remarkable.
How long before Jim Jordan uses this to start impeachment against Joe Biden?
After reading all of EW’s reporting, I’m not surprised by the guilty verdicts. I doubt Mr Lowell is either. I hope HB gets a judge on appeal that allows him to introduce more of the evidence.
NAL, but appeals are on legal issues, not usually on fresh evidence, i.e., an appeal is not a re-trial. If evidence was improperly excluded, as I understand it, that might be part of the grounds for appeal.
There is plenty of evidence that the defense was presented from putting forth before the jury.
I doubt any new exculpatory evidence will come to the fore.
What???
The trial is over, no “new evidence” is “coming to the fore”.
Yes, that’s what I was trying to say. New evidence is out.
Evidence which the defense wanted to present but was prevented from doing, is entirely reasonable for the appeals court to consider–though if the only legal error found was inappropriate suppression of possibly-exculpatory evidence, I would think that a likely outcome would be a new trial, not a reversal. (Hopefully before a judge who isn’t a Trump hack).
No. That is bullshit.
I wonder if the jury even noticed how bad the case was.
The CASE wasn’t bad. The judge excluded things that would not be properly before the jury, like the political involvement.
There are decisions she made that I expect are ripe for appeal. We shall see how that works.
That’s fine. That’s how it’s supposed to work.
The prosecution really boiled the case down to a simple proposition to the jury, which was Hunter an addict or not. It was a horribly unnecessary road to get there, but a reasonable person could certainly have thought it to be true
Good words. But I must say that I do not understand the legal reason to exclude the original (doctored) form for the gun purchase. What is the judicial rational for such a thing?
Yeah, I thought it was the jury’s job to decide the value of evidence. Not for the judge to decide that the jury would not be allowed to see evidence simply because it made a prosecution witness look worse.
Not that I think that Noreika will be inclined towards leniency, but couldn’t the sentence be probation? Biden doesn’t really need to worry too much about the conviction affecting his job prospects, etc. and there was an original plea agreement (that didn’t need this proseuction).
It could be! About half of commentators–almost all people who didn’t follow the case–think it will be.
I don’t think it will be because nothing I’ve seen from Weiss or Noreika suggests they would support that. Again, Noreika was in a bench conference trying to add charges.
In the old US, having three felonies was not a good thing to have on your record. Now? Seems like the GOP is rallying round a guy who has 34 guilty marks on the wrapsheet…
Hi there Timbo. Trump does not have even one finalized “felony”, much less 34. People here are awfully loose with that kind of language. It is not accurate.
To bmaz:
Are you arguing that having a felony mark in one’s record is not cause for great concern when seeking to get a regular job in the US? Why did you even bother to reply to my comment at all, a comment in which I did not use the term felony incorrectly at all.
Dear Timbo, I am saying there its no “conviction” until and unless merged into a sentencing. Have stated this relentlessly. But people are still full of shit here, and it gets really old. If you do not know what is a conviction, I cannot help you anymore.
Thank you for once again insulting everyone (“people are still full of shit here“) at this site while not offering an efficient alternative label for someone indicted and found guilty by a jury of their peers with appeals pending.
Bmaz, please explain. A trial concludes with either a conviction or an acquittal, yes? Sentencing is the judgement phase of a trial. It only occurs after an individual is convicted of a crime by either a jury or a judge having found them guilty of the charges which they were tried upon. Why is it that you keep insisting that conviction does not occur until after sentencing? Is it because an appeal cannot be filed till after sentencing? Does one appeal the verdict of guilt or their conviction. I am sure this is something you can quickly explain in layman’s terms.
“If the defendant is convicted in a criminal case, the judge will set a date for sentencing. Before that time, a pre-sentence investigation will take place to help the judge determine the appropriate sentence from the range of possible sentences set out in the statutes“
This is from the American Bar Association. New York State law says that a pre-sentencing hearing occurs after conviction. Trump had that hearing on Monday. Honest, no disrespect, is there any chance you may be mistaken?
Yes, I am sure. Juries make findings, courts make convictions. Marcy may be right abut Norieka, I don’t honestly know. But it would be pretty wild to give Hunter incarceration vis a vie Trump. They are different cases completely, but, still would be very obvious. We shall see.
Bmaz, jury’s make decisions, courts make convictions. I think I get that, but it seems as if it is a distinction without a difference. Is there a specific time when the court declares the conviction of an individual? New York State law very specifically says that only individuals convicted of a crime are required to have a pre sentencing hearing before a probation officer. Does this not mean that Trump has been convicted? The judge specifically denied a judgment of acquittal and set a sentencing date. Specifically, when is a person found guilty by a jury convicted ? A lot of folks here have respect for your experience and authority on the subject, yet there seems to be a bit of confusion. I know it is a lot to ask, but could you please explain this? I am a curious man by nature. It keeps me awake
Is having an LA millionaire bankrolling the appeal ‘how it’s supposed to work’?
“ bankrolling the appeal”
Link?
It was my understanding that Kevin Morris “ has told associates he is tapped out.” *
* https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/15/hunter-biden-legal-defense-kevin-morris-money-00158237
Beyond the rigor of this particular prosecution is the “selective” nature of the charges.
Washington Post asked DoJ for the statistics:
“But according to newly revealed Justice Department records, the odds of being charged for lying on this form are virtually nonexistent. In the 2019 fiscal year, when Hunter Biden purchased his gun, federal prosecutors received 478 referrals for lying on Form 4473 — and filed just 298 cases, according to data extracted from the U.S. attorneys’ case management system. That’s out of approximately 27 million background checks undertaken in a 12-month period.”
My calculator says the chance of prosecution is 1.103E-5 … which works out to 0.0001103% (if I counted my decimals correctly).
Consider 300 prosecutions in light of a few other numbers about Americans
* “46.3 million people aged 12 or older (or 16.5 percent of the population) met the applicable DSM-5 criteria for having a substance use disorder in the past year [2022], including 29.5 million people who were classified as having an alcohol use disorder and 24 million people who were classified as having a drug use disorder.”
* [about] “10.3 percent of people with past-year SUD received SUD treatment.” That works out to nearly 2.5 million people in treatment.
* “In 2023, 32% of Americans own at least one firearm. There are approximately 259,000,000 adults, which equates to 82,880,000 people who own a firearm in the U.S.”
* “The number of new gun owners in the US totaled 4.2 million in 2022.”
Andrey Vyshinsky would be so proud. To borrow bmaz’s language, looks like another victory for the pissants. Would it be the case that a successful appeal by HB will require the case to be retried with the inclusion of the appealed arguments (namely, the issues with the critical documents)? Timing could look interesting on that, as I imagine if “the cruelty is the point” the Special Counsel would love to have that second trial right around the election if they could swing it.
Of course, MSNBC pulls Chuck Toddler out of the dumpster to tell us all about the politics of HB’s conviction. FFS.
The only thing worse would be to ungag Ken Dilanian. Oh, wait.
I posted this under one of Ken’s claims about the plea deal
@KenDilanianNBC 6h
In retrospect, the decision by Hunter Biden’s team not to agree to a plea deal they didn’t like (because it didn’t grant him immunity from FARA violations) was a catastrophic one. ”
This isn’t the 1st time Ken got the Hunter Biden story wrong. Here’s @emptywheel on @nicolesandler show 3-1-2024
Then here’s a link to the detailed article:
How Derek Hines Fooled Ken Dilanian Into Making False Claims About The Hunter Biden Laptop
https://www.emptywheel.net/2024/02/28/how-derek-hines-fooled-ken-dilanian-into-make-false-claims-about-the-laptop/
And I linked to the video I made of Marcy calling Ken out.
https://x.com/spockosbrain/status/1800649124447969708
My disappearance from coverage of this trial, which hit too close to home for me anyway, has largely been due to the Ken Dilanian of it all.
Auto-correct wants his last name to be Dilation. Maybe that is apter.
Question for the legal experts: is a jail sentence likely and if so would be able to secure an appeals bond?
A prison sentence is likely. My guess is a year or more, given my gut about Noreika.
Really????
I’m saying that based on his guidelines, which start upwards of a year, her sentencing of someone that DOJ asked for 6 months to 1 year, and her belief that he also lied about his address on the form.
bmaz, what kind of sentence are you expecting?
Probation. But I don’t have the guidelines expertise Marcy does.
With no prior criminal record and in recovery???
Does she have any sentencing history anybody knows of? You say gut feeling.
If sentencing were my choice, I’d say token house arrest, he can be painting, earning a living that way, with a long probation with regular mandatory drug testing. Even delayed sentencing. With mandatory interim drug testing and no intervening crime.
The guy poses no public danger.
Backsliding would trigger quick and harsh reaction. That’s similar to what the plea bargain entailed. If he possessed a conceal carry permit it should be cancelled, and if doing delayed prosecution he’d have voting rights during the delay period.
Presumably his law license will be pulled, (subject to later motion for reinstatement). It is a felony conviction. That’s a separate channel.
Yes. She sentenced a guy DOJ asked for 6 months on a gun case to 12 months, and insinuated that Hunter had ALSO committed the same crime that guy had, on top of the false claims on the form.
I get the feeling she’s been wanting to throw the book at him all along.
Or what are the chances Biden is sentenced to something close to the original plea agreement? Given the circumstances of his continued recovery/sobriety and first offender status.
I mean, bmaz thinks he’ll get probation.
I am skeptical that Weiss would ask for that or that Noreika would do grant it.
The talking heads I was listening to this morning said Weiss’ comments (about HB deserving the punishment anybody else would get) were a set up for them asking for probation. But now I’m thinking he’s setting it up to ask for prison time.
Appeals bond question ND raised. Isn’t that for civil damages situations?
The question, is there any security requirement if appealing an imposed fine, in criminal cases? Something parallel to securing civil damages pending appeal?
Yes, appeals bonds are for civil damages appeals in both state and federal systems.
In a criminal case, a bond’s purpose is to ensure the defendant shows up when required.
He will certainly ask for an appeal bond under 18 U.S.C. sec. 3143 which lists a number of criteria including “raises a substantial question of law or fact likely to result in (i) reversal, (ii) an order for new trial.” Stephen “Walking Flea Bag” Bannon got one on his contempt case which was recently revoked after he lost his appeal (off to jail by July 1). I have read here and elsewhere that RHB has legitimate Second Amendment issues based on Bruen. I’d like to hear the experts weigh in.
I know little about how Beau Biden is viewed in Delaware, but is it possible that Hallie is seen as “ruined” by Hunter the screw-up, who had a romantic involvement with his brother’s widow and made her into an addict? A jury might see Hunter as deserving of punishment according to such reasoning.
Was thinking along the same lines, that having jurors who have experience with addiction in the family cuts both ways, compassion and anger. Having dealt with an addicted family member (clean for nearly two decades now) it definitely took me a while to come to terms with my compassion, and put aside the anger (thefts, lies, etc etc). Getting addicted is sort of like being in a life-altering car accident: you never quite come back to your resting point.
It’s clear that Melania is seen as being besmirched by her association from the 34 felony charges that the jury found Trump guilty of last week.
Good on the DOJ for finally bringing an end to the Ukrainian corruption that has infiltrated the Biden administration.
…I’m sorry, I’ve just been told there was no international plot to win favor with Joe Biden for a Ukrainian power company. It was just a troubled man owning a gun. We do not tolerate that in America. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!
You’re going to have to include snark tags for some readers.
I am not one of those “some readers”. But, apparently you can actually remove comments when you selectively want to. Contrary to your stupid italicized ad on baloney;
[Moderator’s note: yes, this moderator can remove comments which are off topic, derailing discussion, and ignore moderator’s instructions left in “stupid italicized ad on [sic] baloney.” You’re ignoring comments from other community members about your behavior — take their hints. /~Rayne]
Thank you so much oh so Benevolent Moderator. Very kind or you. What a sparkling joy you have become.
/snark ^
Apologies for any confusion, just having a little fun with my frustrations here.
Tough break for HB. This has got to be very difficult for president Biden because if he wasn’t president and or running for president HB wouldn’t have been charged at all.
Even Trey Gowdy said the feds didn’t prosecute these kinds of cases when he was there.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2024/06/fox-news-hunter-biden-trial-justice-system-donald-trump-conviction.html
It will temporarily be tough on Kevin Morris, if he really expects to be repaid and Hunter draws prison time. Sincerely, Hunter would not be put in any hard time institution, and could continue painting if incarcerated, which has been a restful and soothing thing for him, a good thing. Whatever happens, he’s seen worse.
Hunter has already written his memoir. If Trump gets jail time he could write his, “My Struggle.”
To quote the late great Molly Ivins, “sounded better in the original German”.
It’s a tough break for Hunter Biden that his Dad didn’t keep his word to be a “transition” president and not run for re-election.
If Joe Biden hadn’t chosen to indulge his own need to view himself as the sole savior of democracy, the MAGAs and their media would have had to turn all their energy and resources to spinning lies, manufacturing dirt and ginning up hate for a brand new threat to their dear leader, and would have lost interest in pursuing HB to the ends of the earth. Surely Joe Biden recognized this?
(sorry I ended up in moderation for some reason and caused you extra work)
Oh please. Joe Biden never said he would only serve one term as president.
It was clear this was going to be the result, but the level of crookedness, cruelty, corruption — displayed openly and loudly to the public — leaves me breathless (and, honestly, disturbed). I think the span of the Hunter proceedings was so long and convoluted, most of the public are unable to capture what actually happened (and resulted).
Thank you, Marcy.
Very tough on Hunter and his family. It’s difficult to understand why a prosecutor would immunise a gun shop worker who didn’t comply with the law when selling a weapon, and instead prosecute a gun buyer with no criminal record, who never fired the weapon, with no history of violence, instead. A prison sentence will achieve nothing here, except possibly nudging him back into addiction.
Well, it would be difficult to understand if you or I were the gun buyer. To me it feels rather easy to understand given who this particular gun buyer was. The technically correct but obscenely misleading “Biden Convicted” headline is already worth its weight in gold to rat-%^&*ers like Roger Stone used to be (and apparently still may be).
Because he wants a promotion next time a Republican is in the White House?
Can President Biden be impeached for rigging the system against his son? Let’s hear from Fox legal experts.
What do you mean President Biden rigged it? Didn’t you hear? Fox says he’s incompetent and Barack Obama, therefore,would have had to rig the DOJ.
Does this verdict have broader implications? Do Republicans really want gun ownership forms to be dissected? How many of them lied on forms to get a weapon?
I wonder this too. Second amendment enthusiasts must feel ambivalent right now, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they start blaming pesky forms as being the true enemy of the people.
Exactly…
C’mon, the Republican train blew past the logical inference and accountability. stations years ago. Cogniitive dissonance? You’re drowning in it!
Wonder where Junior buys his guns? Wonder what an audit there might turn up? Just wondering…
I would like to think that the resources used to prosecute this case were well spent. I would like to think that critics might see this as evidence that the the DOJ doesn’t succumb to political pressure or favoritism.
But I don’t believe that the resources were well spent nor that critics will stop with accusations for which the evidence exists only in the category of “If we keep looking, surely we will find something.” After all, many of the same critics still believe in the Rumsfeld fantasy logic “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence and we will find it even if we have to fabricate it.”
And no doubt Trump World is beside itself with glee…
Sure. But the guilty verdicts denied them potentially potent outrage-based fundraising opportunity.
This is not what I expected, just as I didn’t expect how my own civil case turned out. Nevertheless, in my own case I had a good chance for appeal, plus a valid reason to file an additional suit. But, instead, there was a settlement that satisfied both parties, although satisfied seems an inappropriate assessment.
I don’t have any idea how things will work out for Hunter Biden. But I am grateful for his supportive family and friends. And I know they will do their best to handle whatever comes next with courage and grace, as I believe Hunter will, too.
I’m of the mind that challenges offer unexpected opportunities, especially for creativity and friendship. But my hope is that there will also be some avenues of growth to strengthen our humanity by way of reassessment of some of our established institutions.
I think I’d have hung the jury if I’d ever been allowed on it. It is hard to say because knowing of the repudiation of a done deal – such as it was and having read here the defense plea negotiations affidavit – that signed and delivered settlement colors my outlook. If a juror anyway, not knowing of the stuff Marcy posted, it just looked like a chicken-shit charge, blown up out of proportion, making a federal case out of a form, nobody hurt. Years ago and political. Nothing in the evidence of any person threatened with a weapon, just technicalities. Knowing that Hunter is by far not the only licensed lawyer doing cocaine. They can afford it. Not being personally affected by any “bad person” showing or implications, not judging that way, just, wtf is this being tried? The only time and way the handgun really seemed a public threat was what Hallie did with it.
Whatever the merits (or otherwise) of the trial and verdict, isn’t it refreshing to observe a President refusing to put his thumb on the scales or to bitch about the outcome? I mean, that’s an absolute minimum standard, but imagine if Don Jr or Eric was in court. What’s the opposite of dignified silence?
Rayne, please accept my apologies for the missing “K” – hope I didn’t cause too much work.
[Thanks for pointing it out, it’s been edited and released for publication. If you hadn’t pointed it out I would have had to do more legwork. Thanks. /~Rayne]
Well, that does it: I’m never voting for Hunter Biden for President (/s for those who need it)
I can’t help but notice the contrast between these post-verdict quotes from defendant, family member, and attorney, and those after the Trump trial.
One side respects the rule of law. The other side is a law unto itself.
Exactly.
This “farce” was too good of an opportunity for those power brokers behind the GOP scenes. On the stage before the semi-literate public, we have Trump yelling how his trials are sham operations. And then, Hunter Biden.
On a personal level, I saw something not quite the same but similar played out locally at a state probate court proceeding. A local probate attorney, spoken about by advocates as being crooked regarding conservatorships, used her frequently-relied on tactics to wrongly paint me — before the court and others, including county government — as a crooked family member. Fortunately, I had a smart, experienced judge who slammed down that attorney in favor of me (family member), and even lectured that attorney during the proceeding about major untruths the attorney wrote about me in her conservatorship petition. I would like to hope there (would/could/will) be something similar in our future on the national and international stage.
Meanwhile, in MAGA Land:
MAGA Nation Finds Reason to Be Furious Over Hunter Biden Conviction https://www.thedailybeast.com/maga-nation-finds-reason-to-be-furious-over-hunter-biden-conviction Jun. 11, 2024 12:47PM
Biden won’t pardon Hunter the way Quid Pro Don pardoned Pirro’s felon husband and Jared’s felon daddy. Because Biden has morals and integrity.
Of course they do; and of course they use the verdict purely as an opportunity to propagate their false narratives.
NB: the writer of that article got it wrong because they didn’t do a simple Google search. A Colt Cobra does not sell for $5,000, but somewhere around one-fifth of that.
Because without manufactured outrage, there’d be no outrage at all.
Thanks Marcie for all your hard work analyzing the precursors to the trial, what the Judge allowed and did not allow and what the prosecutors did or did not do. The Jury was not privy to that information. And the general public does not read your blog like us EW Addicts. The prosecution was more of a persecution of Hunter Biden in an attempt to damage Joe Biden’s campaign for the presidency. I feel sad for the Biden family, all of them, after this verdict.
Her name is Marcy, not Marcie. But, hey, what do I know?
Ok. Sorry, Marcy.
It is possible that spellcheck substituted the ‘ie’ for ‘y’, Mister Benefit-of-the-Doubt? You may have missed your calling as a prosecutor. (apologies for any lack of proophreading…)
[Moderator’s note: You have used two different usernames today, “Knowatall” and “Knowa Tall”; you have been previously warned about failing to use the same username each time you comment having amassed eight different usernames. Your email address and all eight usernames are going into an auto-moderation list until you learn to stick with the same username. /~Rayne]
No.
Yes, I felt sadness for HB and his family too. Addiction masks deep painful wounds within hurting oneself plus family and friends who tried to help.
I feel sad for the country…that the GOP leading candidate for President has been found guilty of 34 felony charges by a jury of his peers. And that the same people who will be crowing about Hunter Biden’s conviction will somehow still support Trump for President after he’s been legally deemed a criminal by the state of New York.
He also owes the state of New York over $454 million dollars for years and years of persistent business fraud.
Trump is a living embodiment of the very worst things about America. Unlike practically every president before him (who all tried to bring the country together and encourage unity and decency), Trump deliberately stirred outrage and divided Americans along political lines.
By supporting Trump, the people with no morals or decency all out themselves. So much for the party of “law and order” and “family values”.
Head scratcher ???
“When he said he did not want that gun back and that gun sat in evidence for almost five years, I think that’s what may have been what led to his downfall. If he had taken possession of that gun, I don’t know if we would have even had a trial,” the juror said.
(CNN)
I think the juror means Hunter likely would have killed himself with it. Hence, no trial. But I may be wrong.
I think he means no one would have figured it out. They’ve been in a bubble. Some on the jury are going to try to figure out what happened at the gun shop and may be a bit surprised.
Suspect suicide ideation, impulse buy, never loaded in 12 days, trained gun owner, 3 felonies.
Perhaps it speaks to a random nature of investigations. Flags need to wave and dots need to be connected. It is less likely that paper is going to draw attention to itself while sitting in a file whereas a physical item in an evidence locker will be reviewed from time to time, i.e. what’s this and why is it still here. In 2018, the addiction issue was quiet. Add a few years and Hunter’s name is all over the news associated with addiction.
I agree with rvhishere @ 6:46 pm. Out of sight, out of mind. It will be interesting to see if we hear anything else from jurors. In my case, 2 jurors were so upset with the outcome that they contacted my attorneys. I think it played a significant part in the subsequent settlement.
This conviction is based on a catch basin crime. If the government wanted to keep drug users from having guns it would require periodic drug tests like those required for maintaining jobs.
I just want to know if Alex Jones was ever tested for drug abuse , and if anybody poured over his gun permit application to see if he checked the box .
This has been sad to watch as a news story in the MSM. Very little discussion about the route generally taken with non-violent drug users or the import of recovery and the process of getting to recovery. Very little discussion or public education about trauma and the relationship between: trauma and addiction, trauma and fear, fear and addiction, or the dynamics of grief, trauma, loneliness and fear, triggering addiction.
“Trauma is not what happens to you. Trauma is what happens inside you as a result of what happens to you.” Dr. Gabor Mate
klynn – It was typical shallow mainstream method.
Coverage so far of the Trump documents case suggests is is not partisan poor coverage of Hunter. Just poor. Name your case. Poor.
Menandez and Mercedes. Gold bars.
Hunter trial — These persons showed up to watch. This person said threw the gun away. With a lead pic of Hunter and Melissa going into or leaving the courthouse. Next story, polls show . . . Next story Doncic has a big game but the Celtics had one key third quarter run to win game two.
It seems like the jury might not have come to a consensus on whether he was a user or an addict, and also not grappled with the question of whether you’re an addict (under this law) if you might have decided to stop using. Which all seems like it springs from Noreika refusing to clarify these definitions when Lowell asked for that.
My experience, judges bend the laws to suit their purpose. She decided that being an addict didn’t necessarily mean proof of use during the 12 days. There’s coke residue on most bills, truck was used by others, etc.
I really appreciate the understanding I have of this trial from reading this blog (v. what I would have understood based on other coverage.) But mostly I just feel sad.
Commentary (perhaps here, certainly elsewhere) has referred it as “Shakespearian” but for me, it reminds me very much the Once and Future King, with Biden Sr. as Arthur, unable to extend mercy to his family in order to hold up the ideal of the rule of law.
Hopefully once Hunter serves whatever sentence he’s given, the family can truly move on from this painful episode.
And hopefully qualified, well-intentioned people will not be deterred from running for elected office out of concern for their family members. I fear that is the greatest long-term consequence of this prosecution.
Would like to see some metrics (and betting) on how much of a ‘sympathy-card’ HB conviction and sentencing will achieve. Independent-on-the-fence voters not happy with the meanness factor might lean more blue with jail sentence and fines, etc? Dems are hoping anyway.
I would rather not encourage the media’s tendency to turn election reporting into horserace coverage.
The American public can’t make informed decisions at the polls with metrics.
Major media’s tendency to see everything most clearly as horse races could be a good example for defining addiction.
It’s more than tendency — it’s an inability to avoid horse race reporting format, compulsively treating elections as sports-like competitions reduced to statistics.
It’s a persistent rejection of pleas by experts on journalism to do other than horse race reporting, like NYU’s Jay Rosen asking for coverage of the stakes, not the odds.
I don’t think it will have any effect on the election, nor should it. Hunter isn’t running for office.
I feel great sadness for the country when large segments of our fellow citizens find glee in the misfortunes of any family struggling to deal with an addict family member. A close family member of mine died from addiction so I know how traumatic the experiences surrounding an addicts life can be. The fact that so many people in the US are not ashamed of making it harder for any addict to reach recovery from any addiction is an indictment of who we are as a society. So called “Christians” and “patriotic American” seem to have taken an unhealthy and unholy interest in denigrating people who are struggling with addiction in this country—if they only had the common sense to stop making the situation worse we would all be better off.
There is little or no “Christian” forgiveness, sympathy or empathy in this current era of partisan mania. More like; eye-for-an-eye and be sure it’s a liberal eye that you’re sticking. As evidence-based science and medicine have made clear, addiction is an organic disease; just like cancer, gout and schizophrenia.
As Peterr will attest, the biblical rule attempts to restrain a violent response. Take no more than an eye for an eye. More extreme acts of revenge are off limits.
Indeed; and Deuteronomy – “Vengeance is mine, says the Lord, and I will repay,” that is, don’t take it into your own hands, it’s the Lord’s business.
To carry the irony even further, it was also partly designed to protect against honor killings targeted against other members of the family, which was novel in the heavily clan-based communitarian approach of most cultures in that area in that time. It was THAT person’s eye for the eye. Not their kid’s eye. (Ezekiel 18:20).
That the party of the religious right is actively breaking the spiritual and sociological meaning of that phrase in the Bible by targeting Hunter to get to Joe Biden because Donald Trump was convicted by a jury and Biden wasn’t would make for cliched writing if it was fictional.
EDIT: Sorry Rayne for the wrong email. Hope I caught and killed it before it cluttered your box.
[It went straight to the bin, no extra work required. Nice catch, thanks. /~Rayne]
There’s no hate like MAGA Christian love.
If the extreme hatred were mutual, if the ends of the current political, ideological and cultural spectrum in this country were filled with similar magnitude and intensity of ill-will toward its opposite, I could see Newtonian Physics canceling the potential for violence. “Alas, seems like the Dark One is winning this war”, said Eeyore, Eeyore…
Some legal minds seem the think with the way Weiss phrased his statement he is going to ask for probation.
If the sentence were to be probation, does the calculus about an appeal change?
I wonder why the defense didn’t bring up the following from the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals, last August?
“Drug user cannot be barred from owning guns, US court rules”
Aug 9 (Reuters) – “A federal appeals court on Wednesday ruled that a decades-old law prohibiting users of illegal drugs from owning firearms was unconstitutional as applied to the case of a marijuana user, the latest fallout from a U.S. Supreme Court ruling last year that expanded gun rights.
A three-judge panel of the New Orleans-based 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals concluded that the federal law violated a Mississippi man’s right to “keep and bear arms” under the U.S. Constitution’s Second Amendment.”
https://www.reuters.com/legal/drug-user-cannot-be-barred-owning-guns-us-court-rules-2023-08-10/
IANAL but… My understanding is that that was in a different Federal circuit and therefore does not (yet) apply in Delaware.
Only Supreme Court decisions apply nationally. Circuit court decisions are binding only within that a circuit. But the Fifth Circuit’s decision would still have had persuasive authority in Delaware.
Huh? Delaware is not in the 5th Circuit…
Didn’t the judge prohibit the defense from arguing that? It’s a legal question, not a factual matter for the jury. But it is certainly something to raise on appeal.
Timbo, that’s why I said the Fifth Circuit’s decision would have been persuasive, not binding, on the Delaware district court.
Whatever ends up happening next, I think it’s important to recognize that this situation with Hunter owning a gun could have been a lot worse. The family has already dealt with so much tragedy.
On top of the dangers of a drug addict owning a gun, there were real concerns of self harm during that time frame. There was concern that if the details of his activities came out then, that he would resort to self-harm, either intentionally or unintentionally. And the lock box had been damaged and in a car that was open that the kids had access to. Just a couple of hours ago, President Biden’s gun safety speech mentioned the dangers of kids stumbling upon unlocked guns and causing tragic deaths.
There is also the issue of the anger and control issues. The night before purchasing the gun, Hunter took many pictures of Hallie’s phone to scroll through the contacts
The prosecutor cited Hunter’s own book where he wrote that being on crack increases the likelihood of someone to exert violent behavior.
So definitely there could have been worse endings to Hunter’s decision to purchase a gun while he was heavily addicted to crack cocaine. And he as person can come out on the other side of this episode a better person for himself and his family.
Yup. Lots of ways it could have been worse.
As a recovering person, I applaud zscoreUSA’s comment. All legal, political and journalistic issues aside, this family’s story could have been much, much worse. Gun violence and drug/alcohol addiction go hand in hand all too often. Recovery is one day at a time, and there is no “finish line.” I deeply respect the candor and love demonstrated by Jill and Joe Biden. To Hunter: keep doing what you’ve been doing of late. It appears to be working.
Well this settles it; Hunter lost my vote.
If they can do this to Hunter Biden, o people who lie on their gun paperwork, they can do this to you.
Right. This is the scariest part.
Oh no!!! Look out, known habitual drug user and gun enthusiast, Elmo. Also, Don, Jr might want to keep his nose clean for a bit. (/sarc)
Gun sales per se seem not to interest these DoJ prosecutors. The gun shop’s apparent systemic violations of the gun rules won a free pass. All they wanted was to get their man.
I think it’s possible to believe Hunter Biden committed the offenses of which he was accused but also that it was (1) a politically-motivated prosecution and that (2) he didn’t receive a fair trial. If Joe Biden loses (and I hope he doesn’t), I hope he pardons Hunter Biden despite saying he wouldn’t because prior presidents in both parties pardoned people for far worse. Further, how many gun owners are arrested for drug offenses every year but don’t have a team of attorneys assigned to dig into every facet of their life to see whether they were addicts around the time that they signed the ATF form?
I’d hoped for a different verdict. Yes, Hunter Biden had a history of drug/alcohol abuse, from which he periodically tried to extricate himself. Yes, he did commit crimes during that era of abuse. But he’d repaid, with interest, his back taxes. The gun he bought, from a shop seemingly not too fussed about proper record-keeping, was never used. And it was a family member who threw it into a public trash bin! Hunter Biden has been a hostage to his family name and a GOP bent on revenge. I sincerely hope Hunter survives whatever comes next.
I work with the homeless community. Many, possibly a majority, of them are ex-military, battling addiction, and armed. When they get into “disagreements” at the shop, the police are brought in and they almost always find drugs and guns. I’m not sure we can deploy enough courts to prosecute every person that is doing what Hunter Biden did.
So, a few procecural questions.
1) Assuming HB appeals, would any sentence of incarceration be stayed? My general understanding is that for short prison sentences (where the defendant is not a threat to the public, and the appeal would be moot if the defendant served his sentence first) are generally stayed pending the appeal; we are being told that this is the rule that will apply to Trump when he meets the judge in a moth from now–if Merchan sentences him to custody, he’ll get to remain free until the process plays out. Or is it up to the judge?
2) HB also has his tax trial in a few months, but after that–would David Weiss’ career as a United States Attorney finally then come to an end? Or would he be kept around to act as Javert for any appeals? If he does depart, what are the chances (assuming Joe Biden wins the election, I’m assuming appeals won’t be heard until after that) that the US loses interest in the case, or re-offers the same (or similar) deal that Norieka spiked–a guilty plea to a misdemeanor or two?
Weiss could probably resign and easily score a position at a conservative white-shoe firm, or even at a “think tank” (I use the term loosely) run by conservatives. The conviction will only burnish his credentials to that end.
From Wikipedia article on ex-Special Counsel Robert Hur, he of the Biden hit-job: “Following his departure from the U.S. Attorney position, Hur became a partner in the Washington, D.C., office of Gibson Dunn, a national law firm.” Though I can’t find him on their website….
Oh, I’m sure he will do fine… and might even get a judicial appointment should a Republican win in the future. He won’t be busking on the DC Metro any time soon.
But AG Garland only permitted him to stick around–rather than asking for his resignation, like happens with most US attorneys on a change of administration–for the specific purpose of being a de facto (and later de jure) special prosecutor for the various HB things, because Nobody Would Trust A Biden Appointee To Prosecute Hunter. (Usual observations about IOKIYAR apply).
At some point, his remit is done; my question is would that include the appeals process?
“…but the instructions didn’t explicitly say not to consider a lawyer’s failure to object to certain questions or answers.”
Normal?
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/06/11/hunter-biden-juror-talks-00162793
The conflicted prosecution of President Joe Biden’s son before a Trump appointed judge on charges rarely seen using sketchy evidence seems ripe for appeal.
I wouldn’t want to be the federal judge responsible for sending a sitting President’s son to prison. I know there are sentencing guidelines and no one is above the law, but I just wouldn’t want to be that judge.
SCOTUS Justice Alito, after using a 17th century “witch finder” in his Roe V Wade opinion, now goes back even further in time, this time to the early 14th century (1305 to be exact) in preparing his unasked for recommendation for sentencing of Hunter Biden that “he be given the William Wallace treatment”.
Holy shit! Did he really say that? Can you pencil in a link? What a heartless and disgusting thing to say. And Wallace was tried for treason, not lying on a federal form.
Satire. But as more tapes of Alito and his wife come out, it could prove to be real.
“Look at me, look at me,” Ms. Alito said. “I’m German, from Germany. My heritage is German. You come after me, I’m going to give it back to you.” She did not elaborate.
“Fucking Germans. Nothing changes.”
I’ve remarked elsewhere her lack of self awareness is stunning. Nothing like admitting one is a Nazi even to someone they believe is sympathetic to their far right ideology.
For someone with a Masters degree in Library Science, she must have been playing hooky from class when the Library Bill of Rights was taught. She seems to enjoy besmirching the profession. To brush up on current events:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BT1p-wKq2Ik
“Hunter Biden Convicted & Alito’s Wife Caught on Tape Talking Flags” | The Daily Show, 6/11/24
That’s not satire. It’s making shit up. To be satire, you need to be clearer that it’s your invention, not Alito’s.
Suggesting that a Supreme Court justice attempted to intervene in a district court case and recommend that a defendant be hanged, drawn and quartered is over the top, even if your modest proposal was modeled on Jonathan Swift.
Andy Borowitz, on SubStack: “Hunter Biden 31 Convictions Away From Being GOP Nominee”. Or maybe he should call them “guilty verdicts”, that’s still funny.
Maybe Trump could be Hunter’s VP?
Source: https://substack.com/@borowitzreport/note/c-58790451
I’m curious. What are the DOJ career prospects for prosecutors now? They seem to have gone more than a little out of their way to “get” Hunter Biden for almost purely political purposes. Clearly Republicans will love them, but if Biden wins, what happens?
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They didn’t target Hunter uniquely. Most of what was discussed here is what EW calls typical prosecutorial dickishness. They are evaluated largely on wins vs. losses, and this is a win.
Another win for the carceral state. Whoop-de-fucking-doo.
My opinion isn’t worth much, but I expected the guilty verdict on the user in possession charge, Hunter’s own autobiography pretty much did him in there. The documentation charges may fall away eventually on Second Amendment grounds. I think the law is stupid – what regular user of controlled substances is going to answer in the affirmative on a federal form they do use? Why don’t they ask if they are alcoholic too? Many Trump supporters would lie in that instance. In any case, let’s see what the judge does in sentencing – Hunter may end up where he would have been under the cratered plea agreement – on probation, drug use monitoring and community service. Weiss spent months and millions of taxpayer money to come back to where he started!
The only problem with not appealing is that the felony remains on his record. And although it may not affect his career as an artist, it has many unpleasant potential effects in all other phases of his life.
The costs mount for anyone willing to take on public service now. Don’t laugh, it’s a real thing. Here in Canada where we have no such spectacles as these legal trials, women politicians are dropping out, men too – they can’t take the abuse, threats and so forth any longer. Who steps in? Opportunists. What a sad state of affairs.