House January 6 Committee: Public Hearings – Day 4

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This post and comment thread are dedicated to the House January 6 Committee hearings scheduled to begin Tuesday June 21, 2022 at 1:00 p.m. ET.

Please take all comments unrelated to the hearings to a different thread.

The hearings will stream on:

House J6 Committee’s website: https://january6th.house.gov/news/watch-live

House J6 Committee’s YouTube page: TBD

C-SPAN’s House J6 hearing page: https://www.c-span.org/video/?521075-1/fourth-hearing-investigation-capitol-attack

C-SPAN’s YouTube page: https://youtu.be/7KakS8YmwTc

Check PBS for your local affiliate’s stream: https://www.pbs.org/ (see upper right corner)

Twitter is carrying multiple live streams (NBC, PBS, Washington Post, Reuters, CSPAN, Bloomberg): https://twitter.com/i/events/1539226449718038529

ABC, NBC, CBS will carry the hearings live on broadcast; CNN and MSNBC will carry on their cable networks.

Twitter accounts live tweeting the hearing:

Marcy’s Twitter thread: https://twitter.com/emptywheel/status/1539293768993603619

Brandi Buchman-DailyKos: https://twitter.com/Brandi_Buchman/status/1538831520592539649 (Buchman’s thread breaks, check her main feed as necessary)

Scott MacFarlane-CBS: https://twitter.com/MacFarlaneNews/status/1539292006903693312

Laura Rozen: https://twitter.com/lrozen/status/1539293133309190144 (Rozen’s thread breaks several times, check her main feed as necessary)

If you know of any other credible source tweeting the coverage, please share a link in comments.

The witnesses anticipated for today’s hearing are:

Panel 1:

Brad Raffensperger, GA secretary of state

Gabe Sterling, GA election official

Rusty Bowers, Arizona House Speaker

Pane 2:

Wandrea ArShaye “Shaye” Moss, former Georgia election worker

~ ~ ~

Any updates will appear at the bottom of this post; please bear with any content burps as this page may be edited as the day progresses.

Again, this post is dedicated to the House January 6 Committee  and topics addressed in testimony and evidence produced during the hearing.

All other discussion should be in threads under the appropriate post with open discussion under the most recent Trash Talk.

To new readers and commenters: welcome to emptywheel. New commenters, please use a unique name to differentiate yourself; use the same username each time you comment.

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~ ~ ~

ADDER: 

Something’s going on with Twitter. It looks like they’ve been gamed. There’s no event showing up on my mobile app and instead the POS right-wing crap outlet Newsmax is at the top of Trends.

I have it on my desktop but not my on mobile device which is why I could grab the link.

Anybody else have this same experience? Let me know in comments, thanks.

 

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225 replies
  2. harpie says:

    THANKS for continuing to do such an outstanding job on these posts, Rayne!
    [typo: there’s an extraneous b in the link to Marcy’s thread]

    [thanks, I fat fingered my keyboard while editing, should be updated now. /~Rayne]

  3. harpie says:

    1:03 THOMPSON: In order
    1:21 NM claims in recent election GRIFFIN
    1:08 THOMPSON: We won’t have close calls. We’ll have a catastrophe.
    1:09 CHENEY:
    Two points of focus:
    1] Keep in mind that TRUMP already knew the stolene election allegations were nonesense. [BARR-“no merit” [“no evidence of subterfuge”]
    2] Number of threats against official >>> violence
    [STERLING: “It has all gone too far”.]
    1:14 SCHIFF opening statement: Phony certificates, fake electors
    BARR: “bullshit”

  4. harpie says:

    1:19 TRUMP’s supporters heard these false allegations as a call to action [VIDEO]

    1:20 [VIDEO Congressional investigator] CLETA!
    1:22 11/21 8:18 PM TRUMP tweet

    • harpie says:

      Marcy:

      Schiff plays a dark video with people screaming Stop the Steal outside a worker’s home. One thing this line of questioning could do is expand DOJ’s approach to the Stop the Steal network. [VIDEO]

      [Remember that Stop the Steal founder Roger Stone had crowds outside key polling places in 2016.]

      • Ginevra diBenci says:

        harpie, I want to underscore what you just referenced: Stop The Steal began as Roger Stone’s plan to make the 2016 (!!!) election a contested battlefield, one on which the Clinton victory that all expected would be harassed endlessly into the courts and mainly in the media.

        I don’t believe Trump would have conceded in 2016 had his gambit failed. His electoral college victory just delayed what now seems like the inevitable election war. We must remember how all this benefits the GOP writ large, even the ramrod institutionalists whom the J6 hearings have posited as heroes, as it predicates their “election security” mandates across the country.

        • Ginevra diBenci says:

          Yes, there’s a long predicate there. I was just isolating Stop The Steal (TM) as a named project with deliberate goals.

    • harpie says:

      https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1539299636950728706
      1:30 PM · Jun 21, 2022

      The January 6 committee obtained audio of Trump campaign officials, including Giuliani, calling state legislators and telling them things like “you have the power to reclaim your authority to send a slate of Electors that will support President Trump and Vice President Pence.” [VIDEO]

    • harpie says:

      [C-span 23:10] [NPR transcript]
      [J6 Committee Investigator] JOSH ROSELMAN: Beginning in late November 2020, the President and his lawyers started appearing before state legislators urging them to give their electoral votes to Trump even though he lost the popular vote. […]

      This was a strategy with both practical and legal elements. The Select Committee has obtained an email from just two days after the election [11/5/20] in which a Trump campaign lawyer named Cleta Mitchell asked another Trump lawyer, John Eastman, to write a memo justifying the idea.

      UNKNOWN: When do you remember this coming up as an option in the post-election period for the first time?

      CLETA MITCHELL: Right after the election. It might have been before the election.

  5. Tom says:

    Doesn’t the January 6th Committee have any witnesses who aren’t such crazed, rabid, wild-eyed, left-wing extremists?

  6. Rayne says:

    So repulsive hearing Trumpers misusing treason and demanding death as a punishment. This is why the term should not be misused here.

  7. harpie says:

    1:27 This violence was a precursor of J6.
    1:27 This violence is a precursor of J6.
    1:29 SCHIFF: They did their jobs as we must do ours.
    1:29 THOMPSON introduces witnesses
    1:31 THOMPSON > BOWERS [speaker AZ House]
    1:32 SCHIFF
    1:32 SCHIFF Re: NEW TRUMP statement
    [TRUMP: “He told me the election was rigged and I won Arizona.”] BOWERS: FALSE

  8. bmaz says:

    Never thought I would say “good on Rusty Bowers”. He is a wing nut asshole, but so far so good today.

    • Thebuzzardman says:

      I think he’s going to get through to a decent percentage of some of the aging angry boomers who back Trump. By decent, it may only be a few percent, but every bit helps.

      • bmaz says:

        I doubt that in the long run these “hearings” will get through to any noticeable amount of people.

        • hollywood says:

          It appears today’s hearing got through to Sen. Ron Johnson’s office which is now in damage control and denial mode on the office having anything to do with pushing the phony slates of electors.
          Now, I am curious to see if Liz Cheney’s pointed shout out to Pat Cipollone will spur him to appear before the committee.

        • Troutwaxer says:

          Remember what happened with Nixon? It was drip, drip, drip, drip, then BOOOOOOOOOOM! – the dam burst, and public hearings was part of what made the dam burst.

    • Molly Pitcher says:

      Totally agree with your Bowers assessment, but he is also sensing which way the wind is blowing and I see this as a major CYA move on his part. A helpful rat leaving the Titanic.

      • J R in WV says:

        ETA: sorry for the off topic nature of this post!

        I love your Nym for this site. I first went to college long ago in 1968, and the grave of Molly Pitcher was just a few blocks away from the campus in Carlisle PA. Many students visited her grave, it was a revered site for the student body.

        The first female military hero of our nation!!!

        • Molly Pitcher says:

          Captain Molly was the first woman in the US to receive a military pension, as well.

  9. harpie says:

    1:35 BOWERS: GIULIANI never sent the evidence he claimed to have.
    1:37 BOWERS:
    GIULIANI: “We have heard that there is a legal theory in AZ that you can remove the electors of President BIDEN and replace them.”
    B: You are asking me to do something against my oath.
    GIULIANI: “Aren’t we all Republicans here?”

  10. Rayne says:

    Bowers’ statement about his faith and believing the Constitution was divinely inspired — whew. That one left a mark.

  11. harpie says:

    1:45 BOWERS: GIULIANI: “We’ve got lots of theories but no evidence.”
    No one provided me EVER with such evidence.
    Jacob CHANSLEY invading AZ House of Reps building. PB’s outside.
    1:48 [1/4/21?] EASTMAN asks them to vote to decertify the electors because we had plenary power to do so.
    EASTMAN to BOWERS:”Just do it and let the Courts sort it out.” [paraphrase]

  12. harpie says:

    1:51 BOWERS Call from Andy BIGGS 1/6 AM
    1:53 BOWERS: We have no legal pathway for us to execute such a request.
    1:55 BOWERS included Reagan’s words in his written statement.
    > Peaceful transfer of power every four years is a miracle.

  13. harpie says:

    1:57 SCHIFF: Take a close look at the fake electors scheme
    TRUMP team and supporters integrally involved.
    1:58 IVESTIGATOR: 11/18/ CHESEBRO memo
    Cassidy Hutchinson / Ronna Romney McDaniel /Justin Clark
    Matt Morgan

  15. Arice says:

    Interesting to see the deeply religious, right-wing Trump supporters like Bowers run headlong into conflict between their faith and their political expediency. I’m not a fan of Bowers or Pence or many of their kind, but I’m grateful they chose faith over politics.

    • Tom says:

      What I have difficulty understanding is how any truly religious person could vote for Trump even once, let alone twice.

      • Arice says:

        I reckon they let their anti-abortion fervor blind them to the deal with the devil they were making.

      • John Paul Jones says:

        It would probably be something along the lines that god chooses his vessels in ways which we can’t necessarily understand. So if the deity wanted, for example, abortion to be made illegal, then even though he chose a criminal and a con-man and a serial adulterer and sexual assaulter as his vessel, it’s not up to the faithful to question why he chose that vessel. (In Judges, the righteous judges of Israel get less and less noble as the book goes on, reaches a pretty low point with Samson (braggart, bully, etc.) and pretty much hits bottom with Ehud’s story.)

        • Peterr says:

          That might be understandable as an explanation, save for the fact that the folks who used that logic to give Trump a pass for grabbing women by the p*ssy were the same ones were first in line to condemn Bill Clinton for his sins. “How could we Good Christian People(tm) possibly tolerate a man as manifestly sinful as Clinton as our president?”

          To me, it reads more like a way to explain away problems with your candidate and justify what you want to have.

        • harold hecuba says:

          There is no rhyme or reason to their “logic”. My cousin is deeply religious and when pressed on Trump’s failings, has absolutely replied that God chooses broken vessels to get His work done. And he was absolutely appalled with Bill Clinton’s failings. My cousin sees no double standard with that.

          Motes in eyes, and all that.

          The deeply religious have accepted Trump precisely because he’s an angry White man who put three conservative justices on the Supreme Court. The fact that he was able to put three on the court is proof to them of God’s workings.

        • Belyn says:

          Some offspring perhaps, but other offspring will reject the unsavory parts of their upbringing.

        • Arice says:

          It’s actually very consistent. Clinton wasn’t promising to appoint anti-Roe Supreme Court Justices. Trump was. To the foaming anti-abortion right the ends justified the means.

  16. OldTulsaDude says:

    I am struck by how seemingly ingrained what I can only term “mafia thinking” is to Trump’s view of the world – Republicans apparently were not party members to him but part of the “family” of which he was head.

    • harpie says:

      ew:

      Bowers: I don’t know whether I should name groups but gentleman w/3 bars on his chest, threatening my neighbor, he had a pistol. I knew I had to get close.

      We had a daughter who was gravely ill who was upset and my wife was a valiant person. It was disturbing. It was disturbing

      To explain the 3-bars reference, that’s a reference to the 3%er militia.

    • harpie says:

      https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1539310299865489410
      2:12 PM · Jun 21, 2022

      Bowers on the Arizona fake electors scheme: “I just thought, this is a tragic parody.” [VIDEO]

      https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1539311266862223363
      2:16 PM · Jun 21, 2022

      Bowers becomes emotional as he recounts the threats and harassment he and his family received from Trump supporters for refusing to work with the Trump campaign to overturn Trump’s loss in Arizona, including accusations that he’s a pedophile [VIDEO]

  20. Makeitso says:

    RUDY: I am here on behalf of the president, Donald Trump.

    Trump later today: Rudy? Hardly know him. Coffee boy….

  21. burnt says:

    I can’t wait to hear Sen. Johnson comment on wanting to deliver the fake electors’ fake votes to Pence.

    • Ravenclaw says:

      He may take a leaf from McConnell’s book: “I haven’t heard anything about that report.”

    • harpie says:

      ew:

      In video explaining the suitcase of ballots, Sterling notes that if it were introduced in court it would lead to sanctions.

      Sterling: The problem you have is you’re getting to people’s hearts.

      Sterling, quoting a lawyer: I just know in my heart they cheated. Responds, once you get to the heart, the facts don’t matter.

    • harpie says:

      https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1539318458000850944
      2:44 PM · Jun 21, 2022

      Sterling painstakingly debunks Giuliani’s lies about video purportedly showing Georgia election workers counting fake votes for Biden (Trump amplified these claims anyway) [VIDEO]

      https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1539319058717458432
      2:47 PM · Jun 21, 2022

      “Once you get past the heart, the facts don’t matter as much” — Sterling on why it was so hard to debunk Trump’s election lies [VIDEO]

  24. earlofhuntingdon says:

    Who knew that state election officials were authorized to officially communicate their vote tallies regarding a presidential election to the federal government through a staff member to a U.S. Senator?

  25. harpie says:

    2:40 [VIDEO] STIRLING: 12/7/20 Disinfo Monday news conference
    2:43 re: Competing with TRUMP’s disinfo

  26. harpie says:

    2:43: PAK, BARR, DONOGHUE – re: suitcasesaga TRUMP did not listen.
    2:46 TRUMP- RAFFENSPERGER 1/2/21 call
    2:47 TRUMP to [Chief investigator] Francis WATSON: You’ll be praised when the right answer comes out…everyone knows it’s wrong…whatever you can do …you know we have this date of the 6th which is a very important date.

  27. harpie says:

    2:50 1/2/21 TRUMP-RAFFENSPERGER CALL [AUDIO]

    2:54 next clip “Somebody dropped a lot of votes at night, Brad”
    2:54: next clip: Trump claims about dead voters
    2:55 Raffensperger: That 1-2-3-4 dead people
    2:56 TRUMP – just say you recalculated

    • Ravenclaw says:

      Would have been nice to have a follow-up question: who were their ballots cast for? Because I’m about willing to bet at least 2 were for TFG.

      • CambridgeKnitter says:

        The follow-up I wanted was how many of them died between casting their ballots and Election Day.

    • harpie says:

      ew:

      Raffensperger shivving Trump: 30K Republicans skipped the Presidential race, voted down-ballot (the same thing that happened to Hillary in MI in 2016).

      • Spencer Dawkins says:

        Re: “30K Republicans skipped the Presidential race, voted down-ballot (the same thing that happened to Hillary in MI in 2016)”

        One could reasonably wonder if TFG knew that, before Raffensberger said it today.

        Detail oriented, Trump was not. I’d still love to find out who told him that he had an Article 2 that meant he had the power to do whatever he wanted.

  28. harpie says:

    2:57 TRUMP: I have a much a better link.
    2:58 There’s only two answers, dishonesty or incompetence
    2:59 TRUMP tweet suggesting criminal liability
    “That’s a big risk to you and your lawyer”
    3:00 TRUMP: So, look all I wanna do is this. I just wanna find 11,780 votes…[one more than we need]
    3:01 TRUMP threat [“very dangerous stuff”]

  30. Ravenclaw says:

    T: “When you say there was no criminality, I think it’s very dangerous to say that.”

    Classic indirect threat. I hear the old Mafia guys and the Hollywood actors who played them partied together and studied each other to refine their acts. And I guess lots of mean kids have studied the film versions ever since…

    • gmoke says:

      George Raft: “Raft was a childhood friend of Bugsy Siegel. Early in his career, Raft came under the influence of New York bootlegger, bookie, and racketeer, Owney Madden. Under the patronage of Madden, in the late 1920’s, he moved to Los Angeles to pursue a film career.”
      Source: https://www.paperlessarchives.com/raft.html

      Owney Madden was one of the owners of the Cotton Club.

  31. Arice says:

    Just want to say that hearing the presentation of the tape of the call and Raffensberger’s testimony, I’m confident there’s a violation of the federal statutes against using the power of office to interfere with elections. Raffensberger felt Trump was specifically threatening him. Courageous man for following the law.

    • bmaz says:

      Are you aware of any DOJ investigation of this looking at said charges, because I certainly am not. And they have known about the call since the tape first appeared. Federal charges on this are still unlikely, and would just bugger up any central charges Trump could be charged with. Until anyone definitively learned otherwise, this is a GA state law case.

      • Deni says:

        Actually the. DA in Fulton County has a grand jury seated looking at state charges for Donald.

        • bmaz says:

          Actually, I have known that since Fani Willis said so. The question here is federal charges.

      • Arice says:

        Are you aware of the existence of ANY Federal investigations into Trump, bmaz? If you are, that makes you way more knowledgeable than seemingly anyone outside the DOJ. All I said is I’m convinced there’s a violation of a Federal statute.

      • hollywood says:

        I’m confused. Isn’t your position that the DoJ doesn’t leak and holds its cards very close to its vest? Therefore, at this juncture it would appear we would not be aware of such investigation and charges.

        • Rayne says:

          The fact that details related to the intimidation of Moss and Freeman which overlapped the federal investigation weren’t included in the last House J6 Committee hearing suggests there’s awareness in DC in both House and DOJ that the Fulton County case needs to be allowed to run its course independently and without conflict caused by House and DOJ.

        • Arice says:

          I’m not sure what details you’re referring to, Rayne. Can you point me to whatever that is? Thanks.

  32. harpie says:

    3:03 And Brad, we just want to find the truth…so what are we gonna do here folks?
    3:04 TRUMP at ELLIPSE
    3:05 SCHIFF thanks witnesses and yields back.
    THOMPSON thanks and dismisses witnesses.

    • harpie says:

      ew:

      Moss seems REALLY stressed, which I would be.
      Schiff starts by asking about why Moss liked her job so much.
      She lights up. “What I loved most about my job were the older voters.”

      • Ginevra diBenci says:

        This was when I started crying, and did not stop until she was excused.

        I have a medical condition that makes it almost impossible to cry. This is the first time since my mother died, four and a half years ago.

        • Doctor My Eyes says:

          I’m right there with you, Ginevra. That was deeply disturbing. I think the impact will sink in even more over the next few days.

        • Ginevra diBenci says:

          I thought writing about it here would give me distance, but when I watched her testimony again last night it hurt even more. These women could be my family–which is very much *not* my reason for crying, except in a primordial, can’t-help-it way.

          It’s just that there is so much more pain and hard work and constant effort in the face of unimaginable (to most) duress behind their testimony, and that came crashing through the TV screen both times. I have actually been surprised and moved to witness how much audiences generally seem to have responded. I was so afraid their pain would remain inscrutable to people who haven’t walked in shoes like theirs. (I have those shoes in my closet, and the shiny nice ones pinch your toes but you keep walking with your head up as if they didn’t.)

        • TimB says:

          I am replying only after two days because it hit me so hard. All these ladies wanted to do was live in America, have a nice job or create a small business, build a family, and serve their community. They were totally in favor of everyingthing American in thought and deed. And they were trashed for it, a racist mob was sicced on them for it, people who can get on TV with zero effort lied about them and blew racist dog whistles for it. I am slowly moving from tears for them (and us!) to burning anger.

  34. harpie says:

    3:12 TRUMP, GIULIANI, OTHERS blamed her and her mother [false suitcasesaga]
    3:13 Horrendous 12/10 GIULIANI [COMPETELY FALSE] allegations
    3:18 NOT a USB – – a ginger mint!

  35. harpie says:

    3:19 MOSS: “I felt like it was my fault for putting my family in this position.”
    3:22 This has affected her life, [and her mother’s] PROFOUNDLY

  36. Rayne says:

    So goddamned fucking unfair that Donald Trump could cause so much personal trauma to an election worker and her entire family because he felt entitled to the White House. Shaye Moss deserves so much better in life for having put up with this crap.

    • Rayne says:

      And yeah, election workers were already at risk because of COVID but they were supposed to put up with harassment and abuse by a mob on top of it?

      It’s not just Trump and his minions, though, who are to blame. The entire GOP nurtured these attacks on our elections and they’ve refused to deal with it afterward.

    • mamake says:

      Longtime reader, and profoundly appreciate you, Rayne, Harpie, Dr. Marcy and all of the wise regulars here. But felt compelled to simply say this testimony at the end today is so heartbreaking as well as enraging. Shay, her mother and grandmother need to feel as much love and support (on every level) as possible. It was so powerful to hear from this young woman and her mother. Thank you Rayne again for always bringing the deep heart and crosscultural voice to these pages. Namaste.
      [Hope I used the same name as before…?]

      • punaise says:

        Digby captures the sentiment:

        This hearing choked me up. I can’t believe people in this country are so brainwashed and cruel that they would do to anyone what they did to these election workers.

        The hearing proved how openly and persistently Trump and his henchmen pressured officials to lie and cheat. They promised proof and they never produced it. In fact, these officials proved that Trump was a liar.

        It also showed how Trump incited his followers to threaten violence against those same officials — and innocent election workers just doing their job. The violence of January 6th was the culmination of a ratcheting up of violence all over the country in service of Trump’s Big Lie.

        The fact that these people had to put up with the threats from Trump’s army of assholes is just too much.

        • CambridgeKnitter says:

          As someone who has been vilified by the lies of local Twitter trolls and their hangers-on, though not to anything like the extent these women and so many others were, this really got to me. The naked cruelty is unbearable. I do hope that any settlement includes very public apologies for lying about these innocent people. Something on the order of running ads during Tucker Carlson, Sean Hannity and Fox and Friends for at least ten shows each and buying a billboard in a prominent location in the Atlanta area for at least a month. Plus money, of course.

  37. harpie says:

    3:24 Mother had to leave her home beCAUSE J6 was coming. Was away for two months.
    3:25 Grandmother was targeted…people at her home trying to get in to make a citizen’s arrest.
    3:28 SCHIFF: These lies and threats discourage future election workers > THREAT TO DEMOCRACY
    3:28 SCHIFF: These lies and threats discourage future election workers
    3:30 SCHIFF thanks witnesses and yields back.
    3:30 THOMPSON: Thanks witnesses.

    • harpie says:

      https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1539329328529518593
      3:28 PM · Jun 21, 2022

      Moss: “It has turned my life upside down … I haven’t been anywhere at all … I just don’t do nothing anymore … I second guess everything that I do … all because of lies for me doing my job.”[VIDEO]

      https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1539330040244183041
      3:30 PM · Jun 21, 2022

      “It was horrible … I can’t believe this person has caused this much damage to me and my family” — Freeman details how she had to go into hiding due to Trump’s lies and the ensuing threats [VIDEO]

    • harpie says:

      https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1539330568059596801
      3:33 PM · Jun 21, 2022

      Schiff: Of the other election workers shown in that State Farm Arena video and their supervisors, how many are still elections workers in Fulton County?

      Moss: There is no permanent election worker or supervisor in that video who is still there [VIDEO]

      https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1539331073796104192
      3:35 PM · Jun 21, 2022

      “There is nowhere I feel safe. Nowhere. Do you know how it feels to have the president of the US target you? … He targeted me, Lady Ruby, a small business owner, a mother, a proud American citizen, who stood up to help Fulton County run an election in the middle of a pandemic” [VIDEO]

      • Rayne says:

        Kathy Griffin responded yesterday that yes, she understood how it felt to be targeted by POTUS, but I was really put off by that. Griffin wasn’t harassed for having worked to ensure other Americans could vote; as an artist she had to be familiar with negative feedback from the public though harassment goes beyond that. Moss and Freeman were conducting the business of our country’s democracy; they had no reason at all to anticipate targeting by anyone for their efforts on behalf of their community, state, and nation.

        None of us are safe in Trumplandia, but some of us are far more vulnerable.

        • Ginevra diBenci says:

          Rayne, I haven’t seen Griffin’s words yet, so I may be off base here. But I see what happened to her and what happened to Shaye and Ruby Moss as a both/and category: the world’s most vicious and empowered bully has always gone after those whom he senses others will also attack with him. Whether that was Rosie O’Donnell in the debate or Kathy Griffin, he was testing the extent of his power. Once he sensed it was virtually limitless–that enough of his followers would abandon all considerations of moral propriety in their zeal to do his bidding–he just cut loose. The Moss women might have represented a taboo category earlier (how racist could he afford to seem?) but no longer in 2020, when they became the acme of his targets by being Black women infinitely vulnerable to his power.

          He’s like an experiment seeing what happens when you give a bully of the fundamentally cowardly and fearful type limitless power. Does he seek out equals to challenge? No, he does the opposite. So Kathy Griffin does know, up to a limit she probably would acknowledge.

        • Rayne says:

          I think women including Griffin know, have known, since before grab ’em by the pussy that Trump would inflict violence on certain groups in a way he wouldn’t inflict on others. It’s the reason millions of women were willing to take the the street and march in January 2017. Straight white men have always had less to fear from Trump than other segments of the population, until they got in the way of his ultimate criming. He’d probably have cut Pence a mess of slack had Pence countered with a demand of his own.

          But Griffin didn’t lose her name/identity, career, home, won’t have to look over her shoulder the way Moss and Freeman have and will for some time. Once Benson leaves office — hopefully in 2026 or later — she will not live with the same fear which will linger over Moss and Freeman. It won’t be Trump but the monstrous racism he unleashed which will continue because he gave it permission, the evil genie he let out of the bottle.

          ADDER — this is the evil genie at work, which at the time didn’t have the imprimatur of white male racist president and “America’s Mayor” behind it:

          https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/ferguson-death-mystery-black-lives-matter-michael-brown-809407/

        • Ginevra diBenci says:

          Rayne, you know I’m with you about the uncorked racism. I was simply talking about why Kathy Griffin might comment about having the hatred focused on her by name.

  38. klynn says:

    My child just now:
    Lady Ruby t-shirt fundraiser for the 4th of July to aid election workers threatened.

  39. harpie says:

    3:31 SCHIFF closing statement
    3:32 Whether TRUMP’s actions were criminal, is not ours to decide. But, his actions were UNCONSTITUTIONAL
    Who among us is safe? NONE of us. Dedicated public servants are leaving their posts because of death threats.

    3:35 SCHIFF yields back

    CHENEY statement
    We’ve been reminded today that our institutions can’t defend themselves.

    • harpie says:

      https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1539331943250153473
      3:38 PM · Jun 21, 2022

      Schiff closes with this: “If we are able to communicate anything during these hearings, I hope it is this: We have been blessed beyond measure to live in the world’s greatest democracy.
      That is a legacy to be proud of and to cherish, but it is not one to be taken for granted.”       [VIDEO]

  40. harpie says:

    CHENEY 3:36 The American people have not yet heard from CIPILLONE.
    We think they deserve to hear from him.

    3:37 THOMPSON closing
    3:40 Adjourned

    • harpie says:

      ew:

      Cheney: More than 30 people did not do what you did. Stone, Flynn, Eastman took the fifth, Bannon, Navarro indicted, Meadows engaged with Meadows. American people have not yet heard from Cipollone. We know Trump does not want him to testify.

      Cheney: We think American people deserve to hear from Mr. Cipollone personally.

      [harpie: YES, we do!]

    • harpie says:

      ew:

      Thompson: But for Donald Trump these witnesses were another road block.

      Thursday, his attempt to corrupt top law enforcement body.

      • Rayne says:

        Hey harpie, do you recall which election official’s 15-year-old was at home alone when Trump’s mob showed up to protest? I can’t find it nor recall who it was. Any help you can offer would be great, thanks!

        • Rayne says:

          I thought the reference was to a male election worker, not Benson. I’ll have to swag what I’m writing, thanks anyhow.

        • Ginevra diBenci says:

          Sorry, Rayne. I missed the man talking about his son until last night. I was thinking of something that happened in 2020.

        • Purple Martin says:

          Pennsylvania House Speaker Bryan Cutler. Googled “state election official 15 son home alone mob threat” … Returned AP article at
          https://www.postregister.com/news/nation/jan-6-takeaways-trumps-state-playbook-hateful-threats/article_0defadce-7676-5bd5-b25f-aaf9e9eeb490.html

          Other state officials told similar stories in videotaped testimony. Pennsylvania House Speaker Bryan Cutler said he got repeated calls from Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani and other Trump aides, but he refused to answer them. The calls continued even after Cutler asked them to stop…
          …
          … Cutler, the Pennsylvania House speaker, said his information was also revealed online, prompting protesters to show up at his house when his 15-year-old son was home alone.

          Arizona’s Bowers told stories of people outside his house on loudspeakers and one man with a gun who verbally threatened his neighbor. He teared up as he spoke of his daughter, who he said was “gravely ill,” and his wife becoming upset as people swarmed outside.blockquote

        • harpie says:

          Sorry, Rayne. I started looking for that, but you got the answer before I found anything. I’ll post the rest of this at the end.

    • harpie says:

      https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1539332662808268800
      3:41 PM · Jun 21, 2022

      “Our committee is certain that Donald Trump does not want Mr. Cipollone to testify here … we are working to secure his testimony” — Cheney says that the committee wants to hear from former White House counsel Pat Cipollone [VIDEO]

      https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1539333190455894018
      3:43 PM · Jun 21, 2022

      Thompson closes by teasing the next hearing with a clip of former acting AG Richard Donoghue telling the committee that he told Trump he was prepared to resign immediately if Jeffrey Clark was made attorney general. Donoghue is testifying Thursday. [VIDEO]

      [AGAIN, I really appreciate and would like to recommend Aaron RUPAR’s VERY well done twitter video-threads. He recently began a subscription newsletter as well.]

  41. Makeitso says:

    And to think Trump is still allowed to be out there trying to overturn the election…amazing.

    • bmaz says:

      And to think he has been neither charged not convicted of ANYTHING. What in the world is up with that comment? That is called due process, if you don’t like it move to another country. Jeebus.

      • Makeitso says:

        18 U.S. Code § 371 – Conspiracy to commit offense or to defraud United States

        If two or more persons conspire either to commit any offense against the United States, or to defraud the United States, or any agency thereof in any manner or for any purpose, and one or more of such persons do any act to effect the object of the conspiracy, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both

        Kind of seems obvious….

        • bmaz says:

          Stop. You think you are schooling me on the law with this kind of bunk about a charge never made to date? You are not, just wasting my time. STOP. And again bullshit on the internet is NOT what occurs in a trial court. Waste somebody else’s time. We don’t have time for this nonsense, as Rayne reminded you at the start of the day.

  42. ollie says:

    wow. I mean I felt this hearing. Listening to the young woman Sadya and her mom had me in tears.. I have an adult son who fills half of his home w/survival foods…has stopped talking to me for weeks on end….and bombards my emails w/his bitchute/Q/Trump crap. I wrote on my deferred property taxes form where it asked for emergency contact, right? I wrote them that I used to put down my son but I can’t because of all the above mentions. He’s SCREAMED at me and then I do and it’s been horrible. So today’s hearing? I thought it was brilliant. I appreciated how we got an update on future characters of this play via Cheney.

    lots of opinion here..it felt so good to cry during Sadya’s testimony. I hope her and her family sued trumps ass. thanks. Oh and Big Kudo’s to Rayney for linking all of these parts of the hearing. How great is that!

  43. Jenny says:

    Thanks Rayne. This hearing was raw listening to the threats, hateful words and attacks the election reps and workers had to endure.
    Good for brave Shaye and her mother Lady Ruby for coming forward speaking their truth. I cried. Hoping this exposure will help them to move forward with new support from people who are caring and compassionate.

  44. wetzel says:

    My first impression is that was an effective hearing, except then I remember ABC had Chris Christie commenting during the recesses in their live stream, the Governor who closed a bridge to punish an opponent, and he managed to get in a false equivalency referring to the objections to certification, the few grumbles in 2000 after the Bush Gore as somehow analogous to what happened last year, and I realized that if the hearing were effective I would be able to point to some meaningful change.

    I don’t know. Maybe the number to watch is Republicans who think Trump should be charged with a crime. In one poll this number was 15%. If it reaches 30 or 40% maybe the GOP might awaken from this fever.

  45. Tracy Lynn says:

    Enablers piss me off beyond belief. Brad Raffensperger and Rusty Bowers were enablers of Republican shenanigans and I imagine they both benefited in their own political careers from gerrymandering and other types of legal systems to gain and retain their power. Now the genie is out of the bottle and it is rebounding on them. Now they, their families and who knows, maybe even their friends, are in danger because they had enough integrity to do their jobs. Now they have a sense of what it’s like to be targeted, harassed, and hounded.

    • CambridgeKnitter says:

      Not that they’ll change their tune, unfortunately. Look at Steve Scalise, for example.

  46. Doctor My Eyes says:

    I’m only halfway through the hearings now and have not yet read all the comments here, so sorry if I’m going through plowed ground. Quite surprisingly, this hearing is by far the most upsetting for me, making me teary for all the suffering inflicted and for the direct assault on sacred institutions. For me it is setting off alarm bells and flashing red lights with the urgent question, “Who the hell was organizing all this behind the scenes?!!” How did the communications go out to the Proud Boys, etc. Perhaps most of you had already been thinking of things this way, but I had been assuming a heavy dose of giving oblique orders and a lot of tacit communication. It seems clear to me now that pressure on these state officials, especially protests, were organized by more than just Trump naming people in tweets. How did the communications work?

    As an aside, these hearings can also be viewed as above all else, aiming to rehabilitate the Republican Party. Apparently, the more sanctimonious one is, the greater the chance of courageously standing up for the constitution. One would think that America’s respect for the rule of law has gone unblemished until Trump. Anyway, not to go on about it, but sleaze balls who have devoted their lives to reprehensible political behavior are what stands between us and loss of the America we all love so much. By that, I mean the America that gives lip service to equal treatment under the law and pretends to unwavering defense of democracy.

      • tuxspeedo says:

        I know that’s high praise, lol.

        more of an episode 2-3 guy, mainly because that’s the most obvious conviction waiting to happen (Eastman) so far…. in my def not a lawyer opinion.

        But this one most certainly made me feel the most bummed out about the vibe of the next few elections. oof.

      • Spencer Dawkins says:

        As tuxspeedo said. “that’s high praise”.

        Without expressing an opinion about the absolute value of this series of hearings, I am encouraged that the 1/6 committee seems to be improving each hearing. I hope that trend continues.

        But these are much better than most other public hearings I can remember. I wonder whether the difference is “so few Republicans on the committee”, or “most of the members checked their egos at the door, and decided they don’t each need to ask uncoordinated questions for five minutes apiece”. (/s)

  48. Doctor My Eyes says:

    I’m stunned by what I just watched. Perhaps it’s not as much evidence to convict people, but that hearing certainly struck at the heart of what this is all about. The current state of our democracy and the meaning and motivation of the assaults we are seeing were summed up by Shaye Moss as she explained that her ancestors did not have the right to vote, that she was always taught to exercise and treasure her right to be represented, and that now she has been threatened into no longer participating enthusiastically in the election process. The word “lynching” is too often used lightly, but anyone who can hear that and not think about lynching as a former tool to keep black voters away from the polls is not tuned in to the history of the south. In fact, Ms. Moss mentioned a message saying she was lucky it’s not 1920. This was a direct reference to lynching. A devastating day at the hearings and a sobering day for America. This is where we are.

    • Doctor My Eyes says:

      Just one more thought. I grew up in Georgia when racism was still active and open. My high school was forcibly integrated when I was in the 11th grade. I won’t tell upsetting stories, just know that I grew up white in a belligerently racist culture. The flip side of the ongoing racist assaults on voting rights is that at moments during this hearing I was deeply moved by the fact that these two beautiful women were getting their day on national television, that white Congresspeople were addressing them with respect. When her grandparents were that age in Georgia–at the time of my youth–the destruction of their lives would have gone largely unremarked and certainly unavenged. We must remove this lynch mob from free and civilized society.

    • LaMissy says:

      I’m disgusted but not stunned. I consider myself well informed but not obsessed with what’s happened since Trump’s golden escalator ride. Threatening violent harm to people if they won’t do his bidding is what happens before breakfast. Add the opportunity to frighten two Black women from small town Georgia means he and Rudy have hit a double of racism and misogyny; Rudy intimating they’re drug dealers for good measure.

      I want to know if the FBI offered Ruby Freeman protection or offered to take her to a safe location in January of 2021. What about this evening? Does anyone have their backs tonight?

  49. Nick Caraway says:

    If I understood Republican State Party Chair (and fake elector) Andrew Hitt’s testimony correctly, I thought I heard him say that he felt deceived because he and some of his fellow fake electors were not told that key White House lawyers disapproved of the fake elector scheme. Implying that he would have refused to put his name on the fake elector certificates if he had know (unless he is fudging after the fact). Way to throw your peeps under the bus, Donald. https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/watch/jan-6-committee-plays-video-on-trump-campaign-s-fake-elector-plot-142534213767

    Time to print up “Fake Electors for Trump” tee shirts.

    • P J Evans says:

      What the F did Hitt think it was? He should have realized that it was illegal from the get-go. The official electors were the ones on the ballot in November, not chosen afterward in an attempt to override the votes of the majority.

  50. rawsocal1 says:

    I’ve only commented a couple times here but I’m a consistent reader of this site and the great work by Dr Wheeler et al. Also, IAmostdefNAL, just a nurse here in AZ, but love the info I read here. I know bmaz, rayne, and others hate the “RICO” word, but today on Rawstory, they showed twitter posts by Laurence Tribe, constitutional Harvard law professor, who taught Roberts, Garland, and Pres. Obama, calling for just that, Rico charges against Trump and his “criminal enterprise.” Those were his words not mine. I believe you guys when you’ve said that doesn’t apply in this case, I guess my question is, shouldn’t he of all people be aware that it doesn’t apply here and he’s misinforming the public?

    • bmaz says:

      Larry Tribe is nothing but a noisy crank with a public platform at this point. There is no RICO. And, by the way, thank you for being a nurse in AZ. There is nothing small about that, it is huge. And join in and comment more often!

        • rawsocal1 says:

          Lol, that was my ponyboy reference, The Outsiders, and yes the summers are long here. I work ICU nights so I can sleep through the heat of day.

        • mass interest says:

          AC, automatic dishwashers, and automatic clothes dryers fall under the category of Eighth Wonders of the World in my sphere of experience. And yes, Belyn, electricity enabled all three!

  52. harpie says:

    Part of the discussion of the harassment of Pennsylvania House Speaker Bryan Cutler:

    [C-span 23:10][J6 Committee investigator] JOSH ROSELMAN: On December 30th Trump ally Steve Bannon announced a protest at Cutler’s home.

    STEVE BANNON: We’re getting on the road and we’re going down to Cutler. We’re going to start going to offices. And if we have to we’re going to go to homes and we’re going to let them know what we think about them.

    BRYAN CUTLER: There were multiple protests. I actually don’t remember the exact number. There was at least three, I think, outside of either my district office or my home. And you’re correct, my son — my then 15 year old son was home by himself for the first one. All of my personal information was doxxed online. It was my personal email, my personal cell phone, my home phone number. In fact, we had to disconnect our home phone for about three days because it would ring all hours of the night and would fill up with messages. […]

    Also on that date:
    12/30/20 TRUMP/BANNON phone call:

    From the Costa/Woodward book:

    [Bannon from his “townhouse on Capitol Hill”, Trump at Mara Lago]
    [TRUMP rants about how Republicans are not doing enough to keep him in power.]
    BANNON: “You’ve got to return to Washington and make a dramatic return today,” […] “You’ve got to call Pence off the fucking ski-slopes and get him back here today. This is a crisis” […] [this was the moment for a reckoning.] [] “People are going to go, ‘What the fuck is going on here?’” [] “We’re going to bury Biden on January 6th, fucking bury him.” [] “We are going to kill the Biden Presidency in the crib”

    • Rayne says:

      Just so revolting. Bannon needs to be held accountable for incitement for this but I don’t know how it would ever come about. Too many folks are missing this being hung up on Bannon’s First Amendment rights and not the offense to the public as well as Cutler and family specifically. Thanks for finding this, it’s the rest of the equation which makes it a focused, deliberate attempt to terrorize an elected official (which might be 18 USC 1503?).

  53. harpie says:

    11/5/20 9:41 PM [check TZ!] Cleta MITCHELL to EASTMAN:

    To: Eastman, John [[email protected]]
    Sent: Thur 11/5/2020 9:41:19 PM (UTC-07:00)
    Subject: Legal memo // External Message // [External Message]
    John – what would you think of producing a legal memo outlining the constitutional role of state legislators in designating electors? Rather than governors, the US Constitution vests that responsibility with state legislators. Where state exec branch officials have rewritten or ignored state election law, why couldn’t legislatures reclaim that constitutional duty, and designate the electors – rather than delegating to governors. The US statute may be unconstitutional as the Gov has no authority under the Constitution to designate electors. Am I crazy? [redacted: PIISC] called me about this. I said a legal memo would be required and you would be the person to write it. And maybe get others to sign it.

    What about that? A movement is stirring. But needs constitutional support.
    Would you be willing to discuss it with [redacted: PIISC]? What about that?
    Cleta Mitchell, Esq. // Foley & Lardner, LLP

    11/6/20 G. THOMAS to MEADOWS:
    “Do not concede. It takes time for the army who is gathering for his back.”

  54. Ddub says:

    Axios is reporting the J6 Committee is considering a reschedule:
    https://www.axios.com/2022/06/21/jan-6-committee-schedule-hearings
    Rep. Jamie Raskin (D-Md.), a member of the panel, told reporters after the committee’s fourth hearing on Tuesday, “The original hearings would have wrapped up in June, but we are picking up new evidence on a daily basis with enormous velocity.”
    They are also considering more installments.
    Music to my ears. The new evidence here is perhaps indicating a rush not to be on the wrong side of these increasingly successful Hearings.
    The Committee maybe begins to understand they have the makings of a hit show. Crucially this Reality TV Show has real world implications, which, if they keep hammering on, may penetrate some less thick heads out there. And America loves a hit.

    • Tom says:

      Reminds me of that old definition of insanity–doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

    • harpie says:

      Each of the three GOP witnesses yesterday said under oath that they had wanted Trump to win. Add to that the previous witnesses like Greg Jacob and Marc Short, etc, AND MIKE PENCE.

      That means they, and everyone who voted for TRUMP
      and worked toward his AUTOGOLPE, were A-OK with the US government:

      – separating kids from their parents and putting them in cages
      – selling out our national security to Putin for personal gain
      – extorting the government of Ukraine for personal political gain
      – assisting KSA in murdering and dismembering a US-resident journalist
      – using DHS+ to violently suppress 1st Amend. activity [by certain groups]
      – facilitating the religio-dominionist takeover of SCOTUS
      – deliberately fvcking up COVID response [partially for personal gain]
      – extorting lawmakers to enforce iron fisted rule within the party
      – [you all get the idea…it’s too maddening to continue]

      THE GOP is a CANCER on US.

      • harpie says:

        Should have included by name, the practically SAINTED LUTTIG.

        As Marcy says in her new post:

        […] Understand, many of these people are awful and complicit (and bmaz will surely be by shortly to talk about what an asshole Rusty Bowers is). [harpie: LOL!] But with respect to the fake electors scheme, the Committee has teed up a parade of witnesses who recognize their own criminal exposure, and who are, as a result, already rushing to blame Trump for all of it. […]

        https://www.emptywheel.net/2022/06/22/rudy-giuliani-launched-a-lynch-mob-over-a-ginger-mint/

        • harpie says:

          Marcy, a little later:

          The Republican Party has not just an incentive, but a existential need at this point, to blame Trump’s people for all of this, and it may do wonders not just for obtaining cooperative and cooperating witnesses, but also to change how Republicans view the January 6 investigation.

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