Reaching Velocity to Escape Anti-Vax Stupidity
[NB: check the byline, thanks. /~Rayne]
Before I go any further, here’s a public service announcement:
If you were born between 1960 and 1968 and have not been vaccinated for measles since 1968, go make appointments for a two-shot MMR vaccine regimen.
“Starting in 1963 we started vaccinating,” [CBS News’ Dr. David] Agus said. “The first five years of the vaccine — some batches of it were not very good. None of us really know which batch we got.”
“So you can either go to your doctor and say, ‘Draw a blood test and see if I have a high enough level,’ or just get the shot,” he said. “By the way, it’s a lot cheaper to just get the shot. So people who were vaccinated from 1963 to 1968 — that needs to happen.”
According to Agus, those who were born before 1957 were most likely exposed to measles, meaning 95-98 percent of them have enough antibodies to fight the disease. From 1968 to 1989 doctors gave only one shot, meaning immunity among those people may be a little lower than those who received two shots.
source: CBS News
I’m in that group and I’ve gotten my first shot of the series with the next in a couple weeks. I got mine at the local health department office, easy in and out. If you’re in the age bracket, get it done some place you trust.
~ ~ ~
I wish I could have gotten one at my usual provider – the pharmacy where I’ve gotten all my vaccinations for decades. Unfortunately that’s where things got weird immediately after my recent flu shot.
After getting my flu shot I asked the pharmacist – a new person I’d never see before – if I could get an MMR vaccine because of my age and uncertainty about my level of immunity to measles, if any. I had concerns because I was going to be around persons who were flying to and from Texas and could be exposed to measles during travel.
They told me the pharmacy only gives MMR vaccines to children, that I’d have to have a script from a physician to get one, and a physician might require a titer run first to determine if I needed a booster at all.
Then the pharmacist proceeded to tell me measles was only an Old World problem (what the fuck, I thought), that everyone in the Old World had immunity from exposures (what the actual fuck), and that the outbreak in Texas was from “border crossers” (OH NO MOTHERFUCKER).
I exited that pharmacy as fast as I could. I probably left a vapor trail behind me like the Road Runner.
I felt gross, digusted, like I needed a shower after that wretched dose of stupid.
I wish I’d known what that person really thought before I let them touch me, because I would have left and gone to a different pharmacy.
Having such a close brush with stupidity and racism was revolting. I didn’t dare confront this person in a confined space about their stupid assumptions knowing the measles outbreak was centered in a community of white Christian Texans of the Mennonite faith and not “border crossers” — code for those brown people coming into the US from Central and South America, which is the New World.
You’d think there’d be an institutional safety net protecting us from this wretchedness across the country. Sadly, we’re all of us now exposed to this kind of stupidity thanks to the Trump administration’s appointee helming Health and Human Services, our new chief anti-vaxxer, Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
~ ~ ~
The Food and Drug Administration’s director of the Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research, Dr. Peter Marks, resigned yesterday.
In his letter, which was obtained by The Associated Press, Marks said he was “willing to work” to address the concerns expressed by Robert F. Kennedy Jr. about the safety of vaccinations. But he concluded that wasn’t possible.
“It has become clear that truth and transparency are not desired by the Secretary, but rather he wishes subservient confirmation of his misinformation and lies,” he wrote.
Of course this was RFK Jr’s work, not a resignation but a firing because Marks — a hematologist oncologist who earned a Bachelor of Science degree from Columbia University, followed by a Doctor of Medicine and PhD in cell and molecular biology from New York University — wasn’t willing to roll over and rubber stamp RFK Jr’s bullshit anti-vax nonsense.
And by nonsense I mean the deadly kind – misinformation and disinformation about vaccines directly leading to the deaths of 83 Samoans from measles after being misled by RFK Jr. about measles vaccinations.
That RFK Jr. learned absolutely nothing from these deaths, continuing to spread his well-known, well-documented dispersion of anti-vaxx bullshit, is a shame.
That he has now cost our country the top official in FDA’s vaccine regulatory system while the US is experiencing a spreading measles outbreak, is on the verge of bird flu making a human-to-human leap, and still dealing with the COVID pandemic borders on criminal.
His nonsense is even more toxic in that he not only discourages scheduled vaccinations; RFK Jr. has promoted alternative therapies which are not effective and instead create more health risks.
RFK Jr. – who is not a medical doctor, has no education in science, having a BA in American history and literature, a JD from the University of Virginia School of Law, and a Master of Laws from Pace University — touted vitamin A as a means to treat measles. This vitamin only works to alleviate some measles symptoms in patients who are malnourished; it is not an acceptable therapy.
Unlike water soluable vitamins like B and C which flush out of the body as wasted in urine, vitamin A will bio-accumulate in the body’s fat until the body can use it. An excess of vitamin A can damage the liver. Knowing this you can predict what could happen next: someone takes RFK Jr’s bullshit seriously and poisons themselves or their children thinking they’re doing the right thing for measles.
What do you know but now there are patients with liver problems:
Several patients at Covenant Children’s Hospital in Lubbock have been found to have abnormal liver function, CNN reported, which can occur when a person takes excessive doses of vitamin A. Those being treated include “a handful of unvaccinated children who were given so much vitamin A that they had signs of liver damage,” the New York Times reported.
This is exactly the kind of crap which cost the lives of mostly infants in Samoa. Well-meaning parents took RFK Jr’s idiocy seriously and didn’t seek measles vaccinations which are safe and have spared hundreds of millions of people from illness and death over the last six decades.
The worst part of this mess is that some portion of the American public is just plain stupid and willful. They rely on authority figures to tell them what’s best; if it doesn’t conflict with their beliefs they’ll seize it. The parents of the six-year-old who died of measles in Texas are a perfect example:
The Texas parents of an unvaccinated 6-year-old girl who died from measles Feb. 26 told the anti-vaccine organization Children’s Health Defense in a video released Monday that the experience did not convince them that vaccination against measles was necessary.
“She says they would still say ‘Don’t do the shots,’” an unidentified translator for the parents said. “They think it’s not as bad as the media is making it out to be.” …
“We would absolutely not take the MMR,” the mother said in English, referring to the measles-mumps-rubella vaccination children typically receive before attending school. She said her stance on vaccination has not changed after her daughter’s death.
“The measles wasn’t that bad. They got over it pretty quickly,” the mother said of her other four surviving children who were treated with castor oil and inhaled steroids and recovered. …
source: Texas Tribune
I’m only surprised these poor children received castor oil and not cod liver oil for vitamin A therapy.
These are the kind of people to whom RFK Jr. is a real risk. We can only expect more illnesses and deaths among those who take seriously RFK Jr’s practicing medicine without a license let alone adequate appropriate education and training.
~ ~ ~
How are we going to escape this stupidity? I don’t know, but you can protect yourself from some of the damage by making sure your vaccinations are up to date. Make sure your friends and family are up to date as well.
Once upon a time I prepared this image about the history of childhood mortality for a post about COVID and vaccines:
But RFK Jr. is worried about vaccine safety. *eye roll*
Perjury Traitor Greene was recently showing off Trump’s favorite immigration chart. You know, the one he used at his rallies that says he left office in late 2020.
https://www.politifact.com/article/2024/jul/18/donald-trump-credited-this-immigration-graphic-wit/
So I created a graph of covid deaths showing Trump left office in March 2020. RFK, if you’re reading this hit me up.
There is a dearth of actual physicians here in the rural area in which I live. The best doctor I & many others have ever had chose to return to PA when his father became ill during covid & the doctors who’ve since replaced him seem lacking in knowledge. There are many young PAs & CRNPs who seem to make light of whatever my health concerns are with comments like “everyone has fatty liver now.” I have found that since covid the field of healthcare has lost a huge degree of competence. For much of the lockdown the doctor’s offices I tried to reach for follow-up treatment or prescription refills were unreachable & never returned calls begging for a response. I can’t even imagine such a thing ever occurring previously. I’m on Medicare & frequently wonder if that may be the reason for this treatment so I’m not at all surprised about the new pharmacist. I did however go out of state for a recent colonoscopy & had the best experience/treatment of my lifetime in a neighboring city.
Speaking as a physician (a pediatrician, but still a doctor), I can tell you why your rural area has a shortage of physicians. Rural areas, for better or worse, have a reputation among doctors as having high rates of people who don’t immunize, of people who get militant or violent when they don’t get treatment the way they demand it be given (the demand for Ivermectin treatment for COVID19 was largely rural, and the Idaho hospitals that were stormed by patients were treating disproportionately rural patients) and who aren’t welcoming to university-educated people as likely to be snobs. There’s also a perception that rural patients are prone to malpractice lawsuits (the thinking is that people in small communities don’t think lawsuits adversely affect rich doctors). Fairly or not, you’re suffering due to perceptions of the behavior of your neighbors–and some of those perceptions are based in lived experience.
Also where people prefer not to live
Younger medical services providers are being hit with a triple whammy. Their professional educations seem narrower, the pressure to fill seats and treat symptoms only is stronger, and those “Old World” diseases — TB, polio, MMR — are coming back at a time when few people are trained in how to treat them. But they’re coming back because of explicit USG policy is bringing them back.
And they’re stuck with massive loan debt they can’t shed.
I hear you, and as a specialty physician who gets a lot of referrals from these new young PCP’s I get it (also, have worked with many excellent PA’s and NP’s over the years). Outpatient care for physicians in the US has become brutally draining, ineffective, and challenging thanks to our allergy to “socialist” medicine. Room turns rule. Also, the level of constant paperwork and pushback (oh goody the required-by-for-profit-go-between-company round 3 of appeal for denial of coverage for this medication!) is worse every year, and there is no system of care navigators or case managers to help. Plus we have started in on some ways to lure young families to rural communities – like decent access to internet/broadband/etc – but are lagging here too.
Finally, I’m sorry you couldn’t reach people when you needed them – no excuses for that. I can only speculate – I was working nonstop, terrified I was going to harm my family when we didn’t understand how covid 19 worked, trying to help as reams of patients died nasty deaths in our hospital – and then outside of work people were yelling at each other about how immensely burdensome it was to put a mask on. I think the pandemic broke a lot of good clinics.
I might have already vented about this, apologies if so.
I had a disturbing conversation last week with the very impressive project manager of our new $20M mosquito control facility. This guy, whose very job is to monitor publicly funded construction for “waste and fraud” believes the crap-trap about eliminating the Dept. of Education because of “waste and fraud” with an icing of “send that money back to the states” like we haven’t heard that song and dance before. And they are the ones talking about the “Woke Mind Virus(tm)”? What the hell do I say to this guy? He says he’s got 2 kids in college so he can’t retire. How much you want to bet they’re getting Pell Grants?
Speculation for sure, but it wouldn’t surprise me if those kids were receiving Pell grants to attend Liberty University. They would have gone to Trump University but I hear that’s been shut down for fraud and abuse.
Trump University . That’s the fraud case where, “allegedly”, Pam Bondi showed how cheaply she could be bought to serve her own interests instead of her constituent’s interests.
In Trump’s MAGAstan, that makes an ideal Attorney General.
“If you want to save your child from polio, you can pray or you can inoculate. … Choose science.”
― Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
(Excellent book, BTW.)
Thanks for referencing Sagan’s “Demon-Haunted World”. One that seems to come up a lot more frequently in this environment.
He really emphasizes critical thinking in this volume. This is what seems to get the magats all upset – people shouldn’t have to think for themselves!
That ignorant bonehead’s kids have and will benefit from federal funding even if their parent(s) pay for tuition and board. I paid for my kids’ college education except for what they received in scholarships; they benefited from having instructors who were working on research funded by NIH and other federal grant-funding bodies. Without those grants they may not have had enough instructors or the caliber of instructors they needed to be competitive.
Not to mention the campuses which benefited from federal funding directly or indirectly.
One of my kids worked 10 years in a business that manufacturers orthopedic replacements; the other has worked in food safety, medical testing, and now pharma manufacturing. We all of us have benefited from the federal funding which shaped these kinds of graduates.
Preach! I figured even if he didn’t have kids with Pell Grants, he’d likely to say it’s because he makes too much money. Too ignorant to see that’s a feature not a bug, and so undermines these programs as a taxpayer.
He’s spent most of his career in public construction, where publicly/private partnerships work pretty well, but which introduce an inherent corruption because it’s by definition dependent on private contractors. I think he’s taken from that the idea that EVERYTHING should be privatized, and if it isn’t, it must be full of “fraud and waste”. And my industry (mosquito control) has never managed to be privatized to any great extend, because it’s not a money-maker.
One of the most aggravating things about my career in public service is the fellow service members I encounter who are in the tank with the “government is the problem” garbage.
Ask him how he feels about the US healthcare system.
Then ask him how he feels about its privatization compared to single-payer systems elsewhere, which have better outcomes (ex. longevity) at 1/3 the price.
Elon is NEVER going to send the money back to the states — he’s going to keep it for himself!
True. To DOGE (sic), “send it back to the states” means send the responsibility for handling things back to the states, not the money supposedly saved by destroying the dept of Education, etc. Meanwhile states in the southeast that were pummeled by Helene and more recently by massive flooding are still waiting for federal aid. Republican governors (Kemp and Youngkin) put a good face on it, but Trump has no interest in helping them just because they toadied to him.
Musk keeps ranting about how he thinks the population is declining. If he’s so worried about that, why doesn’t he just use some of his billions to help with vaccines and other health concerns? What’s up with that? Whatever happened to corporate goodwill?
I think it’s just an excuse for him to have multiple affairs with unprotected sex. Or maybe his ego is so large that he thinks only his genetic material is special.
“Or maybe his ego is so large that he thinks only his genetic material is special.” – No maybe on that; multiple women have said that Elon asked them to be impregnated with his “superior” genetic material.
Also, Elon is a virgin. His children were all via IVF, because that way he can guarantee all his children are male (I suspect that’s part of why he hates Vivian so much).
He says civilization will collapse because of low birth rates. Can someone please ask the fucking “genius” to explain exactly how that happens? Even if he means “wypipo civilization”, explain how that works, Elon. Because one “genius” trust fund kid having a baker’s dozen kids ain’t gonna move the needle here.
Sometimes the guy just blatantly telegraphs that he was raised under apartheid. And not just him, apartheid runs through every damned statement these people make about “having babies”.
I hope you reported the ass-backward pharmacist to the management and to the state pharmacy board. On rare occasions, Karening is a matter of life and death.
[Welcome to emptywheel. Please choose and use a unique username with a minimum of 8 letters. We adopted this minimum standard to support community security. Because your username is too short and common, your username will be temporarily changed to match the date/time of your first known comment until you have a new compliant username. /~Rayne]
I admit I didn’t. This community is about 70% GOP with MAGA signs and flags still flying in front of many houses. If this guy is willing work here in this pasty MAGA hole, I’ll simply go some place else. Besides, the average consumer my age in this mostly-white community won’t ask about MMR for themselves so they won’t ever experience this crap.
If it happens a second time with a different individual administering vaccines, then I will level up. When I had my first several COVID shots I’d been fortunate to get techs — not the pharmacist — who were younger and pretty savvy, rather unusual for this pharmacy in this location. It’s roulette as to whether I’ll get them or the pharma on duty, and if I continue to get the younger techs I’ll be happy.
As of quite a few years ago “pharmacists” began graduating with doctoral degrees. So, becoming a pharmacist now typically takes around 6-8 years of education, including 2-4 years of undergraduate coursework and 4 years of pharmacy school to earn a Doctor of Pharmacy (PharmD) degree. For those who earned this degree, I refer to them as the “Pharm. D.” I’m wondering if your poor experience could be attributed to the “old school” variety of pharmacist.
The pharmacist I saw was a white bearded dude about 40 years old. If I see the same neckbeard again I am turning around and walking out, new or old school.
Although from here on out I will make a more pointed effort to check any diplomas and certificates on the walls.
The neckbeard is a Scandinavian thing; lots of them in the Greater Seattle area too. Sure hope it’s not being adopted by MAGA…
I stopped watching Fox after election day but some of the shit gets through when I watch MeidasTouch. Jesse WAHtters was saying we need to have more babies. That’s MAGA’s way of making up for all the people they kill.
More babies of the “right color” and preferably of maga parentage
When I hear of them ranting about the “Great Replacement” and recall that in MAGA, every accusation is an admission, the hair stands up on the back of my neck.
Rayne, thank you for the PSA. In the future, will one (at least those who can afford to) need to travel outside the country to be properly vaccinated? By the way, your former pharmacist’s morsel ` the outbreak in Texas was from “border crossers” ‘ is also
something I’ve seen being spread on the horseshoe left by someone claiming to be a doctor. Needless to say, as for the 2018-2019 outbreaks in NYS, the role of a culturally and linguistically isolated religious community is minimized until the dam breaks:
Parents of Texas child who died of measles stand by decision to not vaccinate [Texas Tribune]
https://www.texastribune.org/2025/03/20/texas-measles-family-gaines-county-death/
Add a deranged Secretary of HHS and you’ve got, `They tell me, Sir, nobody’s ever seen anything like it.’
First, it’s clear that healthcare professionals have been the target of disinfo and misinfo. Perhaps there’s an additional reason for insisting Fox News is shut off in waiting rooms beyond the annoyance to those waiting.
Second, the Texas Tribune article you’ve shared is the same one I excerpted and linked in my post. It’s an overwhelmingly disgusting example of how pro life ideology is anything but pro life. Imagine thinking the vaccine is worse than measles after losing a child to measles, while deaths from the vaccine are virtually nil nationally.
If someone can point to a death caused by the vaccine, do so, because there’ve already been two deaths from measles since the first of the year and there are likely disabilities among those who became ill with the measles and hospitalized which won’t be made public.
My dearest friend, RN at Bellevue NYC, works ER triage. Saw a kid come in with measles last week. She notified the residents on duty so they could (discreetly) observe a case of measles. NONE of them had ever seen a case before (which makes sense, of course, with its successful eradication. This patient (4yo) was admitted, so it must have been a somewhat serious case.
Ugh. Good for the residents but I am so worried about my parent who is undergoing chemo, knowing they are entering facilities in which cases of measles may have shown up like this.
Mask, people, mask if you aren’t certain of your vaccine record. You just don’t know who’s been there ahead of you or following closely behind you.
I’m probably missing it, but it doesn’t seem like AP published Marks’ letter [?]
I don’t know how Edward Nirenberg got it [?] but he says
he’s posted screenshots of the Marks resignation letter here:
https://bsky.app/profile/enirenberg.bsky.social/post/3llibun327k2u
March 28, 2025 at 10:29 PM
The alttext ^^^ is NOT complete.
I think the amount of text in the letter may be beyond Bluesky’s ability to OCR and post as alt text.
There were more outlets besides AP that received the letter, can’t remember which one(s) I saw besides AP. One of them could have been the source.
This excerpt from Mark’s letter made me wonder if current DOD policy might change:
So, Washington’s troops crossed the Delaware having been vaccinated!
harpie, I don’t know if this will change policy, but they just recruited a vaccine quack (non-MD) to “study” whether vaccines cause autism. So…they are definitely allocating money in that direction.
And here’s the section of Marks’ letter re: measles:
When I was in the 4th grade in 1962, a classmate’s little brother (5yo), got the measles, as did all his siblings. The 5-yo’s case, however, developed serious complications. At the time, my mother was the office admin for a well-respected pediatrician (Washington University, St. Louis). The family called for an appointment & my mother told them to come immediately. They arrived within 2 hours. It was too late! The case had progressed to encephalitis and blindness. This ped was well known & had come from Boston Children’s to head the dept at Wash U Med School. He explained the prognosis to the family. After the parents left, he went in the lab room and cried. My mother had never seen him cry before. He was overwhelmed at the tragedy. He treated the child for the next 5 years, during which time the boy was admitted to long-term nursing care, blind, deaf, paralyzed — wasting away. It was completely tragic and it affected that entire family of 8 children. Each and every kid got all their vaccinations when available after that. I’ll never forget that family and my classmate.
Exhausting story to read. We’re likely to read more of them before Bob Kennedy Jr departs the scene. One of the problems with continuing to call these diseases “childhood disease” is that they aren’t any more. Vaccines replaced them, until now.
Few people understand that measles isn’t just a case of little red spots. Like polio and TB, it can ravage more than skin tissue, and cause disability, suffering and death. Letting such diseases run rampant is now official USG policy.
And this is the whole paragraph of the “lies” quote:
The Food and Drug Administration’s director of the Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research, Dr. Peter Marks, resigned saying:
“Over the past 13 years I have done my best to ensure that we efficiently and effectively applied the best available science to benefit public health.”
He likely had as much as …
M.D. = 4 years
Internal Medicine Residency = 3 years
Heme/Onc Fellowship = 3 years
Ph.D. = 4 years
… in training, culminating in service to us, “We the people.”
Dr. Peter Marks’ forced resignation is a great loss to the country. While his expertise cannot be replaced, I have listened to another public health expert, Dr. John Schwartzberg, PhD, emeritus professor of Public Health. Radio station, KPFA.org, in Berkeley, CA has him as a guest commentator on Mondays, 7 am PST. He comments on public health issues like the measles outbreak in Texas. He cites authoritative studies and he answers questions from callers. If he is not knowledgeable, he admits it. Past programs are available as Apple podcasts and can be searched for topics.
Regarding the new pharmacist at your old pharmacy, Rayne: five’ll get you ten they got their degree from a fundie Xian university (not that ignorance is confined to those precincts).
Regarding their ignorant/racist comment about border crossings having to do with the TX measles outbreak, here’s news from NBC a couple days ago, pointing to the likelihood that US measles vac rates for young kids are dangerously low, making that the obvious proximate cause for the current outbreak:
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/measles-vaccination-rates-may-lower-thought-risking-us-elimination-sta-rcna198259
Rayne would know better about this case, but most pharmacists in this part of Michigan went to Ferris State. It’s a public university in a rural, very conservative town. (And one of those schools that chose some narrow educational lanes and is fantastic in those lanes. Pharmacy is one of those.) The problem is that these attitudes are endemic to the community, not that they were nurtured and brought in from elsewhere.
Nah, I think it’s a combination of long-time conservative crap and the wealth of misinfo/disinfo distributed online.
Recall Marcy’s recent post about the woman in a rural conservative area in western Michigan crying the leopards were now eating her face — she lived in an area where broadcast media is less than satisfactory, where broadband access is limited, and what social media this person receives is likely toxic MAGA/QAnon-ish crap. That.
Great article, Rayne. Terrible that a pharmacy is dispensing disinformation and racism to its customers.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/see-how-measles-outbreaks-flourish-where-vaccination-rates-fall/
This Scientific American article on the measles states preventing the spread of measles (achieving herd immunity) requires at least 95% of the population to be vaccinated against it.
Measles is so contagious that any percentage below 95% allows measles outbreaks.
In Texas, vaccination at the state level is 94.3 %, and in school district 3, the vaccination rate among kindergartners is very low, barely above 40%.
And Texas is not alone with sub-95% measles vaccination rates.
According to the same article, the US median vaccination rate for measles is about 92%, a national measles outbreak waiting to happen—even before RFK, Jr has added his own deleterious effect on vaccination rates.
What happens to people who are infected with measles?
“one in 1,000 children infected with measles will die, and another one in 1,000 will develop acute brain swelling, or encephalitis, which can occur up to months after infection and can lead to permanent brain damage.”
The current U.S. pediatric immunization schedule recommends waiting until an infant is at least 12 to 15 months of age before giving the first measles vaccine.
Research shows that receiving the first measles vaccination before 12 months of age inhibits the effect of the second booster dose. For the rest of their lives, these children will have a lower protection against measles.
This abstract of a 1982 article in Yale Journal of Biology and Medicine indicates that in developing countries, where measles transmission is high, most infants will be exposed to measles infections before they reach the age of 12 months. So for those countries, the public health recommendation is to start vaccinating infants at six months of age. That generation of kids will always have a lower protective titer against measles (because the first measles vaccine dose was given so early), but at least over time, as the prevalence of measles declines in the general population, subsequent generations of babies will benefit, because their 1st measles vaccination can be delayed until they reach 12 months of age.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7180027/
Of course, the U.S. may have to adopt an earlier age for measles vaccine if the outbreak continues and puts our current infants at risk.
The CDC falls in line:
The CDC Buried a Measles Forecast That Stressed the Need for Vaccinations [ProPublica]
” … In an aborted plan to roll out the news, the agency would have emphasized the importance of vaccinating people against the highly contagious and potentially deadly disease that has spread to 19 states, the records show.
A CDC spokesperson told ProPublica in a written statement that the agency decided against releasing the assessment “because it does not say anything that the public doesn’t already know.” …”
Not words you would expect to see coming from a public health agency. But it gets worse:
” … “The decision to vaccinate is a personal one,” the statement said, echoing a line from a column Kennedy wrote for the Fox News website. “People should consult with their healthcare provider to understand their options to get a vaccine and should be informed about the potential risks and benefits associated with vaccines.” …”
https://www.propublica.org/article/measles-vaccine-rfk-cdc-report
It’s like the CDC is a hostage speaking on camera while off camera someone is pointing a gun to its head.
Wondering how many Minders it takes to keep everyone in line?
Judge Amy Berman Jackson said something similar
in her recent Opinion re: CFPB:
https://bsky.app/profile/mjsdc.bsky.social/post/3llhoz4csk22b
March 28, 2025 at 4:52 PM
There is also this, from [pdf65/112]
[The beginning and end of 1 2-sentence paragraph]:
Evidence of RETCON?
Vaccination sits at a complex intersection where some understanding the language of statistics, trust in scientific expertise, and clear perspective on the overlapping interest of the individual and of the community are all needed.
If my job was to go around talking to folks and convince them and their family to get vaccinated, I would opt for maximum honesty, truth, and logic. I would treat people like adults who are able to understand. I would patiently explain, and explain, and explain some more. But would I be able to overcome hysteria and misinformation? I am not sure.
Sure, one may say that vaccination is a personal decision, but it is a decision with huge implication that must be made in a full context of informed understanding.
It’s not entirely a personal decision. That’s a fundamental framing problem.
This isn’t like abortion where the decision to carry a pregnancy to term comes with an existential risk to one person alone.
Choosing not to get vaccinated when one is healthy is a risk to all others with whom one comes in contact, ex. COVID.
If someone is immunocompromised and can’t get a vaccination — like my parent now in chemo — they rely on the community around them to keep them safe by meeting or exceeding the +95% vaccinated threshold to keep them safe.
IOW, choosing not to get vaccinated given others’ reliance is a fuck-you to immunocompromised.
There’s one other critically important reason why MMR vaccines should be given in the sequence the (former?) CDC published. Measles breaks acquired immunity to other childhood diseases.
Ex. if a child had chicken pox and mumps first, then gets measles, their immunity to future infections from chicken pox and mumps is likely gone and they’re at risk of getting the disease again.
The MMR vaccine which uses a live attenuated virus doesn’t damage existing immunity but it should be received early enough to prevent measles to avoid immunity loss.
I don’t know if I’ve explained this well, I can’t get my hands on the study/ies I’ve read about this, nor the graph I’ve seen which showed a dramatic reduction in childhood mortality from all childhood illnesses after the measles vaccine was introduced. The chart I provided in my first comment isn’t granular enough to show this.
And yes, you’re so right about measles infectiousness. The R0 for one of COVID’s most infectious variants, Omicron, is 3.4. Measles is so much worse:
source: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28757186 (for as long as Elon and RFK let this remain published)
I dread what’s about to happen as this week is the height of spring break and there are so many air travelers who don’t mask. Like nearly all travelers don’t mask.
This Scientific American article mentions a study in unvaccinated Dutch children who developed “immune amnesia” after measles infection.
The prediction is that among people who develop measles-induced “immune amnesia” the poorest and least able to access hospitals when they do become sick again will suffer the most.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/measles-infection-could-leave-kids-vulnerable-to-other-diseases/
That. Thank you so much, that’s exactly what I was looking for. The repercussions are huge if Americans are discouraged from getting measles vaccinations.
I haven’t run across anything yet about second COVID infections after measles but I’m willing to bet any immunity to COVID is lost as well. This is going to be ugly.
I don’t know what a hostile foreign entity intent on destroying this country without actually declaring war and launching kinetic warfare would do differently than deploy RFK Jr. on our population. We were already doing a pretty thorough job with guns, opioids, and COVID.
A hostile foreign entity would favor RFK Jr.’s setting the table for introduction of a pathogen from the adversary’s stock of biological weapons.
Public health includes a national security component. Right?
Why would they need to bother when RFK Jr. simply has to push cod liver oil and ignore measles and bird flu viruses running rampant?
RFK Jr. = biological weapon
Measles messes with the immune system for a couple of years, at least, according to experts.
(My experience does not conflict with this. Chicken pox 11 months after measles, mumps a year and a half after that.)
Measles is “only an Old World problem” – WTaF?
I got it in 1957, the big epidemic about this time, along with my younger siblings. We had never been outside the US, and there were few immigrants of any kind in our town. (I do not recommend having measles. Or mumps. Or chicken pox. They’re not pleasant, and anyone who thinks they’re minor has forgotten what it was like *or was vaxxed and has never had them*.)
I wish states would tighten up their religious exemption laws so that *no one* can skip those for communicable contagious diseases like measles. (Most Mennonites are fine with vaccines. This lot is stuck in the 17th century.)
Rayne, thank you for this post. I’m waiting for my bloodwork results on whether I need a MMR booster.
Rare breakthrough case of measles here.
https://6abc.com/post/bucks-county-health-department-warning-possible-measles-exposure-starbucks-newtown/16092138/
I’m curious how MAGA media is spinning this but I have a pretty good guess.
Breakthrough cases are why I strongly urge masking in public spaces and on public transportation. Thanks for sharing that link.
I mask every time I have to leave my apt building. I may be one of few doing it – but I’ve had only minor problems with colds in the last 5 years (sniffles, sneezes, slight fever – and usually only a day or so).
Same, still masking. I’m the only student out of 4 classes who hasn’t been out sick across two semesters, but I’m the only one who wears a mask any time I am inside a building on campus.
When I was masking (with KN95 masks) I had no illness for those years. I must have felt a false security & have been maskfree for several months & now have a whopper of a cough, more mucus than I’ve ever produced in my 70 some years & aches all over. Lesson learned.
My insurer, which owns my usual pharmacy, fixed that apparent supply or price problem by not covering the MMR vaccine its pharmacy sells. To find out which MMR vaccine it does insure requires that you know the manufacturer and specific vaccine your provider wants to give you.
I told the “customer service” person I hadn’t a degree in pharmacology, probably couldn’t spell the name of the vaccine, and wouldn’t know what it was until they wanted to give it to me. That person referred me to someone who’s office was closed that day. A typical insurer’s runaround.
They’re not giving you the runaround, they’re giving you choices. You need to be more thankful.
/s
Health department. That’s my suggestion. Mine accepted my insurance, was in and out even faster than at the big box pharmacy.
N.J. health officials issue stop work notices after loss of federal funds
Public health agencies will lose reimbursements as of March 28
https://newjerseyglobe.com/governor/n-j-health-officials-issue-stop-work-notices-after-loss-of-federal-funds/ David Wildstein, March 29 2025 4:41 pm
I guess “Monday” must be 3/24 NOT 3/31.
The story of the family whose daughter died from measles is sadly also a demonstration of the observations of C.S. Peirce in his 1877-8 articles which I discussed here. https://www.emptywheel.net/2019/09/20/a-primer-on-pragmatism-method/
Peirce says that when confronted with reasons to doubt a belief, people have four responses:
1 Tenacity: they cling more tightly to their beliefs.
2. They can legislate an answer and force others to accept it.
3. They can discuss the problem with other people, and take whatever view they arrive at as true.
4. They can try the scientific method.
This story shows that this family is trying the method of tenacity, and probably a use of the third method, getting validation from their friends and neighbors.
It also illustrates Peirce’s observation that people say they want truth, but in reality, just want an answer.
Your comment reminded me of the family of a 6 -year-old boy from Oregon who had never received his childhood vaccinations for tetanus (and presumably for other infections) who in 2017 developed lock jaw (tetanus) 6 days after cutting himself on the family farm and having the forehead laceration sutured at home.
He was med-flighted to a tertiary medical center. Then after a hosptial stay of 57 days (47 of them in the ICU intubated, with a tracheostomy and receiving neuromuscular blockade and pain medications for the painful muscle spasms, kept in a darkened room and wearing ear plugs to decrease external stimuli which would otherwise trigger more intense spasms) followed by 17 days at a rehabillation center and then another month of recuperating at home, he was able to return to a normal life.
His parents allowed him to receive just one tetanus shot during this medical ordeal, but they refused the doctors to complete the entire childhood tetanus series (which would normally be 5 shots by age 6, followed by a tetanus booster every 10 years for life) as well as refused for him any other childhood vaccines, believing his immune system could fight infections on its own.
Yah, right! His immune system PLUS nearly $1 million dollars in specialized medical care, an emergency med-flight and post-hospitalization rehabilitation center physical therapy, can fight the infection!
Surprised to see this story still available via the CDC:
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/68/wr/mm6809a3.htm?s_cid=mm6809a3_e
This article in The Atlantic has an interview with the father very shortly after the death. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2025/03/texas-measles-outbreak-death-family/681985/
Here’s an excerpt:
Horrible. Wondering if this was more racism than ignorance – plenty of data on disparities between what different (looking) patients are offered in similar circumstances unfortunately.
My biggest fear w these people running our health care system is that their ignorance, recalcitrance and egos are setting the stage for a simultaneous bird flu pandemic and measles outbreak.
And now in Kansas we’re witnessing a measles outbreak couple with a resurgence of tuberculosis. What could go wrong? I had tuberculosis years ago and was quarantined. After leaving the hospital I had to move because of shared AC in my building. I was visited unannounced by health department employees who not only counted the pills of the medicine required for 1 year but tracked my where abouts – how was I getting food, etc. You think our health departments will have these resources as more epidemics appear?
https://www.aol.com/kansas-double-outbreak-measles-tuberculosis-185317279.html
“you haven’t hit rock bottom if you are still digging”
I had hoped that America had broken the fever with Covid, but most Americans still seem to be simply unaware that we experienced a higher death rate – especially in the post vaccine available period – than the vast majority of other developed countries. Worldwide research concluded that the unvaccinated in developed countries experienced 2 1/2 times greater fatality rate than the vaccinated. I suggest people read “Asymptomatic infection and transmission of COVID-19 among clusters: systematic review and meta-analysis.” Inside the bubble, people simply seem to not understand what happened, how it happened, or even who it happened to.
We can go back and look at the “Great Barrington Declaration” and see it was simply nonsense, but then again it was written by a Libertarian health economist, not a health professional. And he is now head of NIH. Outspoken doctors (now ex-doctors) who lost their license to practice have become martyrs even though anyone can go back and look at things like ex-Dr. Peter McCollough’s Joe Rogan show and in hindsight see he was explicitly mistaken. The basis of their arguments (natural immunity is superior to induced immunity, treatment is more effective than immunization, and immunization has greater side and long term complications than the disease itself) have all been proven, again in hindsight, to be definitively incorrect.
Following the health advice of these people is not good for your health. I fear it will take a far bigger catastrophe than Covid until we hit rock bottom.
Jim, Methodologically sound studies found Covid death rates higher in Republican states, with incidence rates roughly mapping against party affiliation and voting. With his dys-management of the pandemic, Trump killed many more of his (potential) voters (especially after the vaccine debuted) than his opponents’.
And still…the survivors, their memories replaced by propaganda, flocked back to him.
Trump says cop killers should get the death penalty.
Covid is the leading cop killer.
Trump encourages the spread of covid.
Therefore….
Rayne, Thank you for this important post. My sisters and I have been asking each other about our coverage regarding measles, and you’re the first to provide clear answers. (Among our related topics: “German measles,” which my youngest sister informs me is actually rubella.)
I’m curious about the Gap Years in your chronology–especially so since both of my sisters’ births fall during that gap. What is the status of folks born after 1957 but before 1963? Should they (like their slightly-elders) assume immunity from antibodies? Or go get the shot?
I’m ranging over my memory map of Michigan and trying to think of places where a Racist Pharmacist Encounter would NOT happen. The counties I know best–Washtenaw, Benzie, Traverse, Wayne, and those in between–are a mixed lot. Even in Ann Arbor, it might be possible. Retrogression has a siren song all its own.
Rayne I am so sorry you had this horrid experience. Alas pharmacists, physicians, all professions have stellar and awful people represented. I find it hard to know what to do in the moment, or even what to report – I still remember the pharmacy down the street from me in Brookline (Boston) in the early 90s announcing their pharmacist would not dispense Plan B pills because of their “moral values” – yet the announcement did not say they’d be requesting marriage licenses for those filling viagra… just saying… Glad you found the care you deserve.
Rayne, your vaccination timeline is excellent and stirred painful memories. When my children were young in the late 80s, I kept asking about the chicken pox vaccine, and asking the pediatrician if I could get it too. I was scoffed at by the nurses. They told me I had most likely already had it and I ‘just forgot’.
No, I had measles, mumps AND Rubella (the later at my Grandmother’s house in Connecticut over Christmas), but I knew I never had chickenpox. My husband had everything and Cowpox, too.
Christmas, 1989, and there is a holiday dessert party with the buffet spread on the host’s dining room table. We all had glasses of champagne, I set mine down on the table as I served myself something. All the parents were arranging chicken pox play dates, which I thought was madness.
Fast forward to Arizona, New Years Eve, for the Cal Bear’s trip to the Copper Bowl. As we check into our rooms, I make a highly motivated beeline to the restroom from which I did not leave for a couple hours. Fortunately, my OBGYN just happened to be at the welcome cocktail/New Years party and my husband was able to get a prescription for Compezine.
The Bears win, we fly home and a couple days later a rash appears on my stomach. I had picked up someone elses champagne glass at the Christmas party. Then my son got it, and 10 days later my daughter got it. We weren’t all healthy until late February. So yeah, I just ‘forgot about having had it as a kid’. Get revaccinated. You do NOT want this as an adult.
If you had chicken pox as a kid (and I did!) you may later have chicken pox in your nervous system, AKA shingles.
I don’t recall ever having Rubella, AKA three-day or German measles.
It’s sickening that creeps like this fella you dealt with are in positions where they can spread false information. The damage that Trump 2.0 and his sycophants and cultists will cause this country, is immeasurable.
It’s like living in a very bad dream that we cannot wake up from. It’s maddening and disheartening that our country can go down such a backwards and asinine rabbit hole.
My neighbors got so terrified of what our country has become that they moved to Europe this month.
I am researching in a “this isn’t really happening, is it ?” sort of way…
As a side effect of a 20 year career in the military I’ve had multiple vaccinations for pretty much everyone of those “Old World” diseases (in addition to excellent healthcare for Ms. Ogg and myself with very reasonable premiums.)
It is a sad fact that the vaccine regimens developed over 60 years ago were almost too good. A generation does not know about iron lungs and polio paralysis. Sadly with that anti-vax maniac at HHS they may find out
See: https://www.inquirer.com/health/cfsre-illegal-drug-testing-funds-frozen-20250327.html
[Moderator’s note: Do NOT reprint an entire copyrighted article here; we don’t need take-down notices. This one has been cropped and a link furnished, both of which you should have done. /~Rayne]