JD Vance Asserts that He and Trump Cannot Win Legitimately

There’s a fetish in the traditional media for asking Republicans to disavow crazy things Trump has said or done. This involves Tom Cotton so frequently I’m thinking of naming the phenomenon “Cotton swabs.” Marco Rubio and — since he became Speaker — Mike Johnson are other frequent participants in “Cotton swabbing.”

Perhaps Manu Raju confronts the person in the halls of Congress, perhaps they get invited to a Sunday show. And then the reporter asks them to be outraged about something outrageous that Trump said. Rather than disavowing it, the Republican blurts out some kind of propaganda instead.

Instead of serving as an opportunity to get Republicans to distance themselves from Trump, Republicans exploit the “Cotton swab” to perform obeisance to Trump’s fascism and air propaganda on the mainstream media.

It works every single time.

Yet journalists keep trying it, never varying their method.

Because he’s a smooth and shameless liar, JD Vance is especially adept at exploiting “Cotton swabs.”

In the past week, JD’s “Cotton swabs” have involved questions about whether JD would have certified Joe Biden’s victory. It started when NYT’s Lulu Garcia-Navarro asked JD the question five times.

Last few questions. In the debate, you were asked to clarify if you believe Trump lost the 2020 election. Do you believe he lost the 2020 election? I think that Donald Trump and I have both raised a number of issues with the 2020 election, but we’re focused on the future. I think there’s an obsession here with focusing on 2020. I’m much more worried about what happened after 2020, which is a wide-open border, groceries that are unaffordable. And look, Lulu —

Senator, yes or no. Did Donald Trump lose the 2020 election? Let me ask you a question. Is it OK that big technology companies censored the Hunter Biden laptop story, which independent analysis have said cost Donald Trump millions of votes?

Senator Vance, I’m going to ask you again. Did Donald Trump lose the 2020 election? Did big technology companies censor a story that independent studies have suggested would have cost Trump millions of votes? I think that’s the question.

Senator Vance, I’m going to ask you again. Did Donald Trump lose the 2020 election? And I’ve answered your question with another question. You answer my question and I’ll answer yours.

I have asked this question repeatedly. It is something that is very important for the American people to know. There is no proof, legal or otherwise, that Donald Trump did not lose the 2020 election. But you’re repeating a slogan rather than engaging with what I’m saying, which is that when our own technology firms engage in industrial-scale censorship — by the way, backed up by the federal government — in a way that independent studies suggest affect the votes. I’m worried about Americans who feel like there were problems in 2020. I’m not worried about this slogan that people throw: Well, every court case went this way. I’m talking about something very discrete, a problem of censorship in this country that I do think affected things in 2020. And more importantly, that led to Kamala Harris’s governance, which has screwed this country up in a big way.

Senator, would you have certified the election in 2020? Yes or no? I’ve said that I would have voted against certification because of the concern that I just raised. I think that when you have technology companies —

The answer is no. When you have technology companies censoring Americans at a mass scale in a way that, again, independent studies have suggested affect the vote. I think that it’s right to protest against that, to criticize that, and that’s a totally reasonable thing.

Two other journalists imagined they could do better. After letting JD claim that Trump’s lies about Aurora have some truth to them and insisting that he knows better about disparate assistance in North Carolina, for example, Martha Raddatz again gave JD a chance to claim that the two-day delay of letting people see Hunter Biden’s dick pics swung the 2020 election, and utterly predictably, he took the opportunity to falsely claim that “big tech” had “censored” Hunter Biden’s dick pics and that that was cause enough to declare the 2020 election invalid.

RADDATZ: Senator, we’re just about out of time here. We’re just about out of time here. And I want to end with this — in interview after interview, question after question, and in the debate, you refused to say that Donald Trump lost the 2020 election.

So I’m just going to assume that if I ask you 50 times whether he lost the election, you would not acknowledge that he did. Is that correct?

VANCE: Martha, you’ve — you asked this question, I’ve been asked this question 10 times in the past couple of weeks. Of course, Donald Trump and I believe there were problems in 2020. You haven’t asked about inflation, the —

(CROSSTALK)

RADDATZ: No, I’m sorry, let’s stick to this. I know — I know —

VANCE: The American people want us to talk about how to make their lives better. They don’t want us to —

RADDATZ: Why won’t you say that? Why won’t you say that?

VANCE: Because — because, Martha, I believe that in 2020, when big tech firms were censoring American citizens, that created very serious problems. And by the way, Martha, you’re — you’re a journalist. You represent the American media.

Look at the polling on this. A lot of Americans feel like they were silenced in the run-up to the 2020 election. That is such a bigger issue. That fundamental problem —

(CROSSTALK)

RADDATZ: If you — I just want to —

VANCE: — that me and Donald Trump talking about it, and unfortunately, Martha —

RADDATZ: But I don’t understand why you want to say that you believe it?

(CROSSTALK)

VANCE: She’s — well, won’t just say what, that I think the 2020 election had some problems? I’ve said that repeatedly.

RADDATZ: Did Donald Trump lose? That’s the question, and you know that’s the question.

VANCE: Martha, I’ve said repeatedly I think the election had problems. You want to say rigged. You want to say he won. Use whatever vocabulary term you want — I want to focus on the fact that we had big technology firms censoring our fellow citizens in a way that violated our fundamental rights.

Thankfully, Phil Bump laid out the absurdity behind JD’s answer so I don’t have to. What JD claims was a question about censorship was, in fact, a question about whether, if the hard drive that right wingers claim is a laptop yielded information about China that Congress never managed to find in two years of trying, would it have changed their vote.

It is not the case that tech companies censoring a story — specifically, a New York Post story about an email attributed to a laptop owned by Joe Biden’s son Hunter — cost Trump the election.

This, too, has been explored at length in the past, but it should immediately fail the smell test anyway. The 2020 election was a referendum on Trump, on his presidency and particularly on his handling of the coronavirus pandemic. It is ridiculous to suggest that this would have changed had Twitter (as it was then known) not briefly limited the sharing of a New York Post story about how one of Hunter Biden’s business partners sent him an email thanking him for getting him in the room with his father.

The “independent studies” which Vance mentioned presumably refer to one poll conducted on behalf of the right-wing Media Research Center after the election. It presented respondents with a sweeping claim linking Biden to foreign business interests, asking whether awareness of that purported link would have led people to reconsider their votes. A chunk of self-reported Biden voters said they would have.

Setting aside the vast inaccuracies inherent in having people assess what they would have done had the conditions of their decision-making been slightly different, the question didn’t even center on the New York Post story! It was about purported Chinese investors and used the same “Biden family” framing on which the failed Republican impeachment probe depended.

Even ignoring all the other false premises — that the hard drive he claims was a laptop was “censored,” that the right wing poll is accurate — not even the laptop itself, in federal hands, has substantiated illegal conduct beyond a known crack addiction and a gun purchase.

I would add that, in his answer to NYT, JD justifies a claim about what he would have done in 2021 with a partisan poll not taken until two years later. His answer is based on false premiise after false premise and a time machine.

But, as Bump also lays out, this answer is especially ridiculous given the confirmation that Trump’s campaign has done what JD falsely insinuates the Biden campaign did in 2020: Ask a tech company (probably all tech companies) to censor data.

As Ken Klippenstein described when declaring victory, Elon Musk personally made the decision to reverse his permanent suspension when NYT exposed the Trump campaign’s involvement.

Late last night, X (née Twitter) reinstated my account after banning me on September 26 for publishing the J.D. Vance dossier. Elon Musk personally intervened, in the name of “free speech principles,” according to correspondence I’ve seen. Musk had previously declared me “evil” before X suspended me in a move we now know was coordinated with the Trump campaign.

“I’ve asked X Safety to unsuspend him, even though I think he is an awful human being,” Musk told political commentator Brian Krassenstein (and frequent doppelgänger of mine) on October 11. “Important to stay true to free speech principles.”

The reinstatement of my account later that day reversed what X had previously informed me was a “permanent” suspension. The only explanation I’ve received from X came in an email from Twitter Support last night. The email reiterated my alleged violation of X’s policy on posting private information, but also said that the incident may have been a mistake on my part, for which reason I was being un-suspended.

Note, Klippenstein’s account is back. The links to the JD dossier are not. Xitter is still doing what Elon Musk claims is an affront to free speech, suppressing true information.

It is a testament to the voluntary impotence of the press that they don’t make JD pay a price for these ridiculous claims.

After all, if he believes his premise — that the throttling of content based on stolen information is such a severe abuse that it makes the entire election illegitimate — then he has already conceded that he and Trump cannot score a legitimate victory. If it is the case that “big tech” “censorship” can delegitimize an entire election — even ignoring that Trump’s campaign made demands and Biden’s campaign only asked for non-consensual dick pics to be taken down — then he has conceded all legitimacy.

To be sure, I’m not saying this. I think Vance and Trump might still win this, fair and square.

But Vance, based on his comments, has already stated that if Trump wins, Trump’s victory will be illegitimate based on his success at censoring the JD Vance dossier.

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75 replies
  1. Ben_27JAN2020_1047h says:

    This is definitely an interesting argument about the inconsistencies of their spin when being asked questions they don’t want to answer, but I don’t believe it backs up the ultimate claim of the final line.

    Logic would indicate, as you’ve argued, that if Vance believed the Biden laptop story “censoring” created an illegitimate Biden victory, that the Trump campaign’s censoring of the JD Vance dossier on X would also create an illegitimate Trump victory in 2024 if that were to happen. But we all know that their answer to the question isn’t based out of logic. It’s their grasping at straws for any sort of deflection that makes them declare a statement about the 2020 results, keeping them in their preferred limbo of never having to anger their dear leader while not sounding 150% ridiculous on record.

    What would be really interesting to hear is Vance questioned directly about the very comparison you’ve made here to see how he would try to spin it. He would never accept the equivalence and would deny the logic of your premise here. My guess is he would say that he doesn’t want to comment on internal matters or some BS, but it would be nice for the public to see that their only defense for their refusal to address the 2020 results doesn’t hold a candle when actually challenged.

    [Welcome back to emptywheel. THIRD REQUEST: Please use a more differentiated username when you comment next as we have several community members named “Ben,” “Benjamin” or some variant of “Bennet.” Please use a minimum of 8 characters to ensure a distinctive name. Until you’ve selected a new username, yours will be edited to reflect the date/time of your first comment. /~Rayne

    • Fred Fnord says:

      The obvious answer to this is that an election is made invalid if the public is denied access to “the truth”, and made MORE valid if the public is denied access to falsehoods. And, of course, “truth” is as always identified by its utility to the Nazis.

      There is nothing really hypocritical in their approach. If they are the absolute definition of right in all things, then anything they do is by definition good and proper and anything their enemies do is justification for extermination.

    • Yohei1972 says:

      Uh, Marcy is quite aware and doesn’t need this explained. As people who’ve been around here longer know, this is a favorite rhetorical device of EW’s: ironically pretending the rhetoric right wingers spew is sincere and consistent, then extrapolating some shoot-themselves-in-the-foot position they would have to take if it were. It’s part of the particular flavor of sarcasm that regulars enjoy about this site.

  2. Capemaydave says:

    Shorter JD, I was told there would be no fact checking, Vance – if Trump had gotten wider distribution for his proaganda, Trump would not have lost.

    This year, we can only win by in addition to greater promotion of our propaganda, not being fact checked.

  3. PeteT0323 says:

    Perhaps boring, but….

    Might straight up start asking interviewees if they think a copy of a hard drive of a laptop with a very broken chain of custody – or complete lack of custody – is in fact a laptop as they keep claiming.

    And if they got “hacked” and a copy if their digital life got passed around resulting in one or more damaging “leaks” what would they do or say?

  4. MsJennyMD says:

    MSM needs to change the questions to:
    Trump lost the 2020 election. How do you feel about his loss?
    Do you have any regrets not being able to participate in the insurrection on January 6th, 2021?
    What do you say to the hundreds of police officers injured by a violent mob protecting congress?
    Attackers caused estimated $2.7 million in damages. Do you think the American people should pay or send the bill directly to Trump?
    And one last question, do you believe in a peaceful transfer of power from one President to another?

    • Matt Foley says:

      More questions:
      re hurricanes, why does God hate red states so much?
      Why do red states love federal socialist hurricane handouts so much?
      What is the leading killer of cops since 2014? Hint: it’s not migrants. https://nleomf.org/memorial/facts-figures/officer-fatality-data/causes-of-law-enforcement-deaths/
      In election year 2020 Trump approved $2.2 trillion covid socialism handouts. How much of that $2.2 trillion have you and your fellow fiscal conservatives repaid?
      As a pro lifer which concerns you more: 13 soldiers killed in Afghanistan or 1.1 million unvaccinated covid deaths?

    • dannyboy says:

      Just for completeness we need to add Deaths to your list: “What do you say to the hundreds of police officers injured by a violent mob protecting congress?”

      Their violent mob Killed.

    • Tim Benson says:

      AND can Kamala Harris reject votes from states she did not win when she ceremoniously presides over the next president’s certification as Trump claimed Pence could do?

      • Patrick Carty says:

        In all seriousness we can expect a possible physical brawl inside Congress that day should Trump lose, and forget about outside. The GOP foot soldiers will create chaos for weeks unless the Dems have a solid and legally enforceable counteract.

        Then again Joe has some immunity he could cash in.

  5. Peterr says:

    “Mr. Vance, when Congress meets in a Joint Session on January 6, 2025, does Vice President Harris have the unilateral power to set aside the electoral college votes of states that you believe you had won, where she believes irregularities took place?”

    • Spencer Dawkins says:

      This is the real question. And it’s a variation of “when they go low, we go high”: when they go low, are we prepared to go equally low?

    • Nessnessess says:

      I have been imagining that, should Harris win, she will have a conflict of interest as sitting VP were she to preside over a vote count in which is a participant.

      I have no idea if such an idea has any basis in legal reality. But legal reality may not be necessary for these people, since at least on the surface the idea seems like it just could be true, or at least be a legitimately open question. When was the last time a sitting vice president won the electoral college for president?

      • chocolateislove says:

        As Dan Quayle reminded Mike Pence and the rest of the American population, presiding over the Electoral Collage vote count/certification is ceremonial. The VP has no power to make changes/determine outcomes. Saying otherwise is gaslighting bullshit.

  6. dannyboy says:

    “oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive!”

    Kinda’ points out what I like about this forum. Truth gets to do battle with lies, using reason, analysis and fact.

    I am disapppointed that THE MAJORITY of journalism is not practiced similarly.

    P.S. Of course I accept that this far right admires lies and deception. Kind of a Badge of Dishonor.

  7. Inner Monologue says:

    “It is a testament to the voluntary impotence of the press that they don’t make JD pay a price for these ridiculous claims.” I had an in-person conversation yesterday with a battle-ground state relation about these very interviews. My relation noted that no one they live near will even look at the NYTs, Wash Post, MSNBC, CNN, etc., so it doesn’t matter if they call out TFG and Vance. They think Vance doesn’t so much play the press, but that they are overmatched.

    The relation, a lifelong Democrat, described being beyond tired because all politicians lie, therefore no one can be trusted. Their spouse voted for TFG in 2016 (and probably in 2020, but no one’s talking). After months of my relation being devastated following 2016, spouse told them, “I can’t take this anymore.” Meaning, we can’t go on this way. My relation then searched for and found a way to discuss policies without naming names. “It saved our marriage.”

    The spouse, suffering no similar devastation or worry, is allowed to sidestep the existential threat to us all – that they have a hand in. TFG, Vance, and all accomplished their goal with my relation. They’ve worn them down and so muddied the waters that they are unable to see or respond to the core threats.

    Somewhat related, I recalled Dorothy Parker’s 1941 essay, “Who Goes Nazi?” https://harpers.org/archive/1941/08/who-goes-nazi/

    • grizebard says:

      Many thanks for that – definitely worth a read. Not very hard to tell which side of the fence Vance falls, is it?

      (Credit where it’s due, the author is Dorothy Thompson, BTW.)

        • dannyboy says:

          Thanks for the article. Here’s my Cliffs Notes on “Who Goes Nazi?”:

          Key Excerpts –

          “His soul has been almost completely neglected…
          “Believe me, nice people don’t go Nazi. Their race, color, creed, or social condition is not the criterion. It is something in them.

          So, “something in them”…
          …let’s see.

    • Rayne says:

      My relation noted that no one they live near will even look at the NYTs, Wash Post, MSNBC, CNN, etc., so it doesn’t matter if they call out TFG and Vance.

      That, I think, is a key reason why the Harris-Walz campaign has not only avoided those national outlets — especially after the “But Biden is Old” campaign — but instead used alternative media approaches including local media.

      Example: “Action News anchor Brian Taff’s full interview with VP nominee Gov. Tim Walz” October 11, 2024 8:34 PM

      Genius move, I think. WPVI channel 6 is an ABC-owned affiliate broadcasting into the Philly media market but New Jersey as well. WPVI also shares content assets with WABC in NYC; this interview may have been shared given the profile of the material.

      IIRC this wasn’t the only local TV interview given by the campaign. Pretty sure the very first campaign interview given was to another PA media market local TV channel.

      • Inner Monologue says:

        My reply to the relation noting that no one they live near will even look at the NYTs, Wash Post, MSNBC, CNN, etc., was, “These outlets should be upholding journalistic standards, regardless. They have a responsibility, regardless, to publish accurate headlines, too.”

        My personal experience with several relations, especially since 9/11, is that people are either fundamentally wired to be receptive to fascism OR they get worn down and stop fighting the good fight, most especially when the fundamentally wired people never give an inch and, frighteningly, draw energy from “getting into it” or from glowering at family gatherings. Remember when staying on the rails while a guest at another’s home was a thing? The fundamentally wired relations tore that memo up.

        Several months ago, a different relation texted a picture of The Epoch Times that had mysteriously been mailed to their house. Alarmed after reading a bit, they asked me if I knew what it was. I said, yes, my neighbor gets it. (Being a text, I left off how its publishers were going broke and hit upon promoting conspiracy theories as the way to stay solvent.) This relation guessed their partner signed up for it. They then texted, “Sigh.”

        • dannyboy says:

          Still haven’t mastered the science of linking here, so here’s a snip from Wikipedia:
          The Epoch Times is a far-right international multi-language newspaper and media company affiliated with the Falun Gong new religious movement. The newspaper, based in New York City, is part of the Epoch Media Group, which also operates New Tang Dynasty (NTD) Television. The Epoch Times has websites in 35 countries but is blocked in mainland China.

          The Epoch Times opposes the Chinese Communist Party, hosts far-right politicians in Europe, and has supported former President Donald Trump in the U.S. A 2019 report by NBC News showed it to be the second-largest funder of pro-Trump Facebook advertising after the Trump campaign itself. The Epoch Times frequently runs stories promoting other Falun Gong–affiliated groups, such as the performing arts company Shen Yun. The Epoch Media Group’s news sites and YouTube channels have promoted conspiracy theories such as QAnon, the Great Replacement, anti-vaccine misinformation and false claims of fraud in the 2020 United States presidential election.

          I post this lengthy description because (1) these are yet more dangerous people, (2) this paper had been distributed widely in my neighborhood, and (3) Falun Gong regularly held demonstrations nearby.

        • Rayne says:

          Reply to: dannyboy
          October 14, 2024 at 11:44 am

          Please offset excerpted material with quote marks, guillemets, brackets if you can’t use HTML blockquote to delineate material.

        • earlofhuntingdon says:

          Mastering the “science” of linking requires only that you to cut and paste a line of text, the url.

          Alternatively, give the full name of the source, the title of the piece from which you are quoting, and a date. That’s more work, but it’s necessary to allow a reader to find and check your source.

      • Error Prone says:

        An election where Harris has to go soft on crypto and fracking and talk of owning a Glock is one with a hell of a lot of smoke being blown by the other side. Once those three noise topics are compromised and put to rest, can Project 2025 threats, abortion rights, White dissatisfaction channeling vs defusing, and Christian Nationalism get suitable media attention?

        Why educated innovative people are a national asset, and how best to promote national prosperity that way into the next several decades seems to marginalize crypto, fracking and guns as things to be in debate. Use of the military, a nuclear Iran,, and globalization seem to be issues with differing views that get fuzzed by both Republican Stevens, MIller and Bannon, into border Angst hysteria and immigrant hate with the media turning a blind eye to priority setting.

        Inner Monologue’s mentioned media outlets seem at fault in output editing. Have we an answer?

        Everybody really knows Trump lost, those saying he did not are expressing a wish not a fact, and can we have a media pool that says so and then gets to questions that matter?

        Musk and his money put into the equation deserve attention beyond, “Its free speech.” That answer just reinforces Citizen’s United, which we should not do because “money talks” is not a national treasure.

    • gmokegmoke says:

      “Who Goes Nazi”” is by Dorothy Thompson not Dorothy Parker. Thompson was one of the first reporters Hitler kicked out of Germany when he took power and was, for a time, married to Sinclair Lewis. She also attended the Madison Square Garden German-American Bund rally in 1939 and had to be escorted out for her own safety.

      She isn’t remembered much these days but was one of the most famous journalists of her time. Some say the Hepburn/Tracy movie “Woman of the Year” was based upon her.

    • ToldainDarkwater says:

      Well this pull quote from that Dorothy Parker essay really nailed it:

      He is the product of a democracy hypocritically preaching social equality and practicing a carelessly brutal snobbery. He is a sensitive, gifted man who has been humiliated into nihilism. He would laugh to see heads roll.

      Humiliation never goes away on its own.

  8. Error Prone says:

    IMO the question is which candidate offers a better future, as best we voters can tell, or which is lesser evil, if that is the approach. Beyond that, distraction, noise.

    Why care more about Vance dodging a question than Trump’s health and ability to make four years, if he wins. If he doesn’t make four years, ask Vance how he’d handle that and what his priorities are. Gotcha journalism seems to not be journalism at its best.

  9. Matt Foley says:

    Orange Asshole rally in my county tonight. I considered going to protest but I don’t think I can take being surrounded by so much assholeness.

    Trump’s lies got Ashli Babbitt permanently censored. No comment from Couchboy.

  10. RitaRita says:

    This is too much like Trump banging the drum before the 2016 and 2020 elections that the only way he could lose the election would be if the election was rigged.

    We dismiss the outlandishness of Vance’s justifications at our peril. They are setting up justifications for “fighting like hell” to overturn the election. Last time, they were stymied by the losses in courts. So they need a justification that can’t be tested in court. Vance saying that, as a Senator, he would not have certified the election because he felt there was “censorship” sets up a subjective standard for not certifying. This won’t matter in the Senate but it will matter in the House. Vance is giving the House Republicans permission to say, “I am not certifying because I feel the election wasn’t fair.”

  11. Matt Foley says:

    Edit: Please fix my name.Sorry!

    The lone MAGA commissioner in my county keeps pushing “election integrity” concerns, namely, he and other MAGAssholes have allegedly recently watched a few instances of one person putting multiple mail-in ballots in dropboxes. While technically illegal I equate it to a rolling stop at a stop sign. No one is harmed and no damage is done. The two Dem commissioners once again reminded him that ballots are checked and verified. Also, there are 18 dropboxes but 600 USPS mailboxes and nobody cares about multiple ballots being mailed in by one person.

    [Matt: I hope this was your comment. I can’t be certain because if it is, you used the wrong email address on it along with “m” as your username. Reply to this comment to confirm, thanks. /~Rayne]

    • Matt Foley says:

      Yes, that’s me. My name and email autofilled but I must not have clicked on them. I’m pretty worked up over this MAGA shit. Sorry.

  12. Magbeth4 says:

    The sequences of Vance’s interviews are very telling of his technique for avoiding any answer to a direct question: word clouds. They obscure the obvious fact that he will not tell the truth under any circumstance. Which leads one to wonder why he has felt the need to lie and obfuscate everything. Is he just “showing off” that he learned how to do this in law school? Is he trying to make the interviewer look stupid?

    Vance is a very strange creature. It would be awful, if by some fluke of nature or destiny, he were to become President. Everything about him seems shallow: his supposed “intellect,”
    his Catholic-come-lately conversion, his very appearance, which covers up, by facial hair, his featureless, round, baby face. A poseur of a very dangerous stripe: one cannot be certain of how much further down the road of fascism he might take the country, even further than Trump.

    • earlofhuntingdon says:

      Used sparingly, redirecting a reporter with another question or a direct refusal to answer because it’s a stupid question, the technique can be effective. Vance, though, uses it frequently and in response to questions that do demand answers.

      But, yes, continuing to ask JD Vance such questions is pointless. It helps him spread his propaganda. It might be useful to ask questions that criticize his technique, which is really the story. It would, however, close off further ability to question him. Media producers hate that.

      • dannyboy says:

        His Followers eat it up when he outright lies and deflects.

        I remember the ‘tough guys’ when I was a young boy would just lie to your face as a challenge and provocation. Letting them get away with it raised their cred with their buds. They are all a bunch of punks, as I discovered later.

      • earlofhuntingdon says:

        Being able to lie shamelessly and effortlessly is often a key filter for reaching senior management. The question is to whom and how much. It’s essential when working for Donald Trump, and in private equity and many kinds of sales. But, it’s a widely-distributed pathology.

        I knew one Senior HR VP who did it to biblical proportions, planning departmental layoffs and company-wide outsourcing, while explicitly gaslighting the affected departments. He got his bonus when they sold the company.

        I knew an Executive VP who was fairly honest when implementing layoffs. That company was well managed. Execs at the former company were only interested in how much lipstick they could put on that pig.

  13. Flatulus says:

    I’ve heard it said that after Trump looses the election, Musk will activate his auto-distruct systems in Teslas ala the Israeli phones and pagers.

    [Moderator’s note: provide a source. This is not a venue for rumor or propaganda, especially not now. /~Rayne]

  14. chocolateislove says:

    Trying to get Vance to say Trump lost is stupid at this point. It only helps Vance continue to promote the idea that there were “irregularities” with the 2020 election. He talks over the interviewer and they finally give up and let him spew his BS. I think they need to start pushing back on his use of the word censored. JD has a JD. He knows (well, he should know but perhaps constitutional law wasn’t his best subject) that the only time anything is censored is if the government is involved. Trump was the government in 2020. And then the interviewer can bring up the Trump campaign asking Musk for a favor with JD’s vetting info. Push back on all of the claims that JD is making with that trite soundbite he’s workshopped. Show the viewers how ridiculous the claim is.

  15. Savage Librarian says:

    Don-old

    Old man Donald lost his charm
    ee-eye, ee-eye-oh
    Without that charm he lost his luck
    ee-eye, ee-eye-oh
    With a balk, balk here
    and a balk, balk there
    Here a balk, there a balk
    Everywhere a balk, balk
    Old man Donald lost his charm
    ee-eye, ee-eye-oh.

    Old man Donald lost his charm
    ee-eye, ee-eye-oh
    Without that charm, no more know-how
    ee-eye, ee-eye-oh
    With a boo-boo here
    and a boo-boo there
    Here a boo, there a boo
    Everywhere a boo-boo
    A balk, balk here
    and a balk, balk there
    Here a balk, there a balk
    Everywhere a balk, balk
    Old man Donald lost his charm
    ee-eye, ee-eye-oh.

    Old man Donald lost his charm
    ee-eye, ee-eye-oh
    Without that charm, Putin’s lapdog
    ee-eye, ee-eye oh
    Had a goof, goof here
    and a goof, goof there
    Here a goof, there a goof
    Everywhere a goof, goof,
    With a boo-boo here
    and a boo-boo there
    Here a boo, there a boo
    Everywhere a boo-boo
    A balk, balk here
    and a balk, balk there
    Here a balk, there a balk
    Everywhere a balk, balk
    Old man Donald lost his charm
    ee-eye, ee-eye-oh.

    Old man Donald lost his charm
    ee-eye, ee-eye-oh
    Without that charm, no more bigwig
    ee-eye, ee-eye oh
    With a blank, blank here
    and a blank, blank there
    Here a blank, there a blank
    Everywhere a blank, blank
    With a goof, goof here
    and a goof, goof there
    Here a goof, there a goof
    Everywhere a goof, goof,
    With a boo-boo here
    and a boo-boo there
    Here a boo, there a boo
    Everywhere a boo-boo
    A balk, balk here
    and a balk, balk there
    Here a balk, there a balk
    Everywhere a balk, balk
    Old man Donald lost his charm
    ee-eye, ee-eye-oh.

    • Matt Foley says:

      “The problem is all inside your head,” he said to me
      “The answer is easy if you dodge it constantly
      I’d like to help you in your struggle to ask me
      There must be fifty ways to dodge your question”
      He said, “It’s really not my habit to be true
      Furthermore, I hope my meaning will be lost or misconstrued
      But I’ll repeat myself at the risk of being crude
      There must be fifty ways to dodge your question”
      Fifty ways to dodge your question

      • Purple Martin says:

        You just act like a hack, Jack
        Send it down the can, Stan
        Just always be coy, Roy
        And set yourself free
        Ask ‘what’s the fuss?’ Gus
        You don’t need to discuss much
        Say ‘I know the key,’ Lee
        And set yourself free

  16. PensionDan says:

    Marcy, thanks for addressing this obvious MSM lapse. They let JD Vance mountainize the 2020 molehill of a 2-day Twitter delay in reporting on one of the Hunter Biden hard drives.
    Much more recently, Leon suppressed the Klippenstein reporting on Vance’s vetting.

  17. punaise says:

    I’ll just drop
    this
    here:

    The age factor election: “A vote for Trump could easily be a vote for a President Vance”
    “The president can essentially be fired by the vice president should he become significantly impaired”

    • harpie says:

      I see others are talking about what kept me up last night.

      Here’s Marcy with one of the questions that were churning:

      https://bsky.app/profile/emptywheel.bsky.social/post/3l6jjxn76ws2o
      October 14, 2024 at 11:59 PM

      On Saturday, Discount Goebbels did a 180 from his stance in 2022, pushing people to vote early.

      Then today, Trump had a weird 30-minute meltdown at what was billed as a town hall.

      I’m wondering if Trump has had similar meltdowns behind closed doors and his handlers are just hoping to hide it. [screenshot of 10/27/22 and 10/13/24 MILLER XEETs]

      • Matt Foley says:

        Since this was in my county I forced myself to watch (at 1.5x playback speed to minimize exposure).
        Takeaways:
        1. Questioners only gave their first names. Weird.
        2. Creepy religious cult vibe. Played Ave Maria more than once, Noem’s constant fawning over her master, audience spontaneous singing of “God Bless America” during one of the medical emergencies.
        3. Stifling hot inside. Noem blamed “Biden’s economy” for Trump not being able to afford air conditioning.
        4. The usual lies and personal attacks.
        5. Trump said he liked the heat because it helps him lose weight. Never mind the people collapsing from it.
        6. I learned a new word from one of the MAGAs there who talked to the press. He said he liked the “camaraderieship”.

    • earlofhuntingdon says:

      The parallel with the Apprentice is precious, but it takes approval of the Cabinet to fire the president, temporarily or for her unexpired term. It’s not up to the VP alone.

  18. Codewalker says:

    Retort: you think Trump lost because people didn’t hear enough about Hunter Biden? Thats your answer?

  19. Zinsky123 says:

    It makes my head hurt to even try to read the back-and-forth between Jethro Dull and the reporter. It’s like reading the dialogue of two eighth-graders, arguing over a “burn book”. Infantile and depressing.

  20. harpie says:

    10/14/24 Excerpts from A Day in the Life of an American Presidential Campaign:
    [I’m almost positive all of these times are ET; all emphasis mine]

    1:12 AM TRUMP on SM:

    I believe it is very important that Kamala Harris pass a test on Cognitive Stamina and Agility. Her actions have led many to believe that there could be something very wrong with her. Even 60 Minutes and CBS, in order to protect Lyin’ Kamala, illegally and unscrupulously replaced an answer she had given, which was totally “bonkers,” with another answer that had nothing to do with the question asked. Also, she is slow and lethargic in answering even the easiest of questions. We just went through almost four years of that, we shouldn’t have to do it again!

    8:07 AM HARRIS Campaign Ian SAMS:

    Trump posts at 1:12am that VP Harris must take a cognitive test

    As he refuses to release his medical records, sit with 60 Minutes, or debate her again— instead retreating solely to rambling rallies where he’s increasingly making no sense

    Is he okay? [screenshot]

    • harpie says:

      4:09 PM HARRIS Campaign Ian SAMS to FoxNews:

      We enjoy coming on your air, and the Vice President’s looking forward to her interview with Brett tomorrow night. It’s actually kind of a stark reminder that we’re not really seeing Donald TRUMP do very many interviews. It’s been about a month now since he did a mainstream media interview, and ah, we’ve gotta wonder why. You know, we called this weekend for him to release his medical records. The Vice President released her medical report from her doctor. Donald TRUMP’s team, I heard him on your air last hour insisting that everything is OK, and there’s nothing to see here. And your anchor rightly asked, well if that’s true, why not just put ‘em out. And so I think that you’re gonna get to hear from the Vice President tomorrow night about her vision for the country and what she’s looking forward to presenting to Fox News viewers, including, for example, her proposal to make sure that seniors’ in-home care is covered under Medicare, a very important proposal to help people bring down the costs for seniors as well as their kids who might be taking care of an aging parent. And, so these are the kind of ideas that she’s talking about, and looking forward to talking and answering, you know, tough questions on Fox News about.

      4:41 PM TRUMP on SM:

      How much time does Ian Sams, Senior Advisor to Lyin’ Kamala Harris, spend on FoxNews? […] Sams is just a below average guy, with memorized FAKE NEWS soundbites, almost all of which are WRONG, but coupled with all of the other Harris Radical Left Democrat mouthpieces that Fox puts on […], it has a very negative effect on the Election. Think of it, I spend an hour with the wonderful Maria Bartiromo, do a beautiful job, and then am followed up all day long by one-sided, negative Democrats, including Ian Sams, who virtually owns the Network. It’s not worthwhile doing interviews on Fox because it all just averages out into NOTHING. FoxNews has totally lost its way!

      5:04 PM HARRIS Campaign:

      Harris Senior Advisor Ian Sams to Fox: It’s been a month since Donald Trump did a mainstream media interview. We have got to wonder why. We called on Trump this weekend to release his medical records. His team is insisting everything is fine and there’s nothing to see, but if that’s true why not just put them out?

      5:14 PM HARRIS Campaign:

      Lol he’s mad [screenshot of 4:41 PM TRUMP post]

    • harpie says:

      RUPAR on TRUMP in Oaks, Pa. 10/14/24 [except for Harris Campaign at 7:53 PM]
      All times ET and from the VIDEOs
      https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1845947366488039493.html

      7:50 PM Wow — this was weird. Trump wrapped up his “town hall” in Oaks, Pennsylvania, after just a few questions, and right after he said he would take a few more questions. More music then played while Trump stood around on stage. Deeply bizarre scenes.

      7:53 PM [HARRIS Campaign]: Trump appears lost, confused, and frozen on stage as multiple songs play for 30 plus minutes and the crowd pours out of the venue early. Hope he’s okay.

      7:56 PM they’re now playing an opera version of “It’s A Man’s Man’s Man’s World” while Trump continues to bob around on stage. words fail.

      7:59 PM Trump takes the mic again. He says he’ll take another question, changes his mind, and calls Democrats “evil. They’re evil.” // He then tells his production crew to play YMCA “nice and loud” and wraps it up. Definitely one of the most bizarre Trump events I can recall.

      8:05 PM Trump is now just standing on stage while religious music plays

      8:11 PM they’re now playing Sinéad while Trump bobs around and dances

      8:20 PM Trump is still standing on stage bopping around to music fyi

      8:24 PM Guns N’ Roses is playing now. Can’t make it up. Trump is still standing around.

      8:27 PM We will all be dust and bones and Trump will still be standing onstage in Oaks, Pennsylvania, bopping around to loud music // i get the vibe they’re about 5 minutes from passing around Kool-Aid

      8:31 PM Trump gives Kristi Noem a smooch and finally walks off the stage as the end of “November Rain” plays

      As George W Bush once said, that was some weird shit. If you appreciate me enduring it so you didn’t have to, please show love by signing up for my newsletter. We’re doing great indy journalism at PN and paid subscribers make my work possible. Thanks. [end Rupar THREAD]

    • harpie says:

      This is HARRIS at 8:03 PM across the state in Erie, Pa:
      [This is an addition to a comment that’s in the pokey]

      https://x.com/atrupar/status/1845983782307844590 8:23 PM · Oct 14, 2024

      “You heard his words, coming from him … Donald Trump is increasingly unstable and unhinged” — oh wow — Kamala Harris at her rally in Erie, Pennsylvania, plays the clip of Trump telling Maria Bartiromo that he would use the military against his domestic foes [VIDEO]

      HARRIS: I’ve said for a while now, watch his rallies.

    • harpie says:

      NOTE: Entire comment is a transcript of Rupar link above.

      8:03 PM HARRIS in Erie Pa:
      HARRIS: He is someone who will stop at nothing to claim power for himself. And you don’t have to take my word for it. I’ve said for a while now, watch his rallies. Listen to his words. He tells us who he is. And he tells us what he would do if he is elected president. So, here tonight, I will show you one example of Donald TRUMP’s worldview and intentions. Please roll the clip. [laughter]

      [0:38] [On VIDEO] TRUMP: [Coachella, Ca; 10/12/24] The worst people are the enemies from within. The enemy from within.

      TRUMP: [Juneau, Wi, 10/6/24] Those people are more dangerous, the enemy from within, than Russia and China.

      TRUMP [Indiana, Pa, 9/23/24]: These people should be put in jail, the way they talk about our judges, and our justices.

      TRUMP [Erie, Pa, 9/29/24]: If you had one really violent day. [] One rough hour, and I mean real rough. [unclear]

      TRUMP [10/13/24 to Bartiromo]: I think the bigger problem are the people from within. We have some very bad people. We have some sick people, radical left lunatics. And I think they’re the, and they should be very easily handled by, if necessary, by National Guard, or if really necessary, by the military.

      [1:16] [crowd boos and jeers] HARRIS: So, so you heard his words. You heard his words coming from him. He’s talking about the enemy within Pennsylvania. He’s talking about the enemy within our country, Pennsylvania. He’s talking about, that he considers anyone who doesn’t support him, or who will not bend to his will, an enemy of our country. [Boos and jeers] It’s a serious issue. He’s saying, he is saying, that he would use the military to go after them. Think about this. And, and and we know who he would target. And we know who he would target, because he has attacked them before. Journalists whose stories he doesn’t like. Election officials who refuse to cheat by filling extra votes and finding extra votes for him. Judges who insist on following the law instead of bending to his will. This is among the reasons I believe so strongly that a second TRUMP term would be a huge risk for America and dangerous. [cheering] Donald TRUMP, Donald TRUMP is increasingly unstable and unhinged. [cheering][3:08] [End transcript]

    • harpie says:

      From Heather Cox Richardson Letters from an American for yesterday: https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/october-15-2024

      After Trump’s bizarre performance last night in Oaks, Pennsylvania, when he stopped taking questions and just swayed to his self-curated playlist for 39 minutes, his campaign this morning canceled a scheduled interview with CNBC’s Squawk Box, according to co-host of the show Joe Kernen. The campaign did not, though, cancel a scheduled live interview today with Bloomberg News and the Economic Club of Chicago. That interview echoed last night’s train wreck.
      […]
      Trump’s issues make it likely that a second Trump presidency would really mean a J.D. Vance presidency, even if Trump nominally remains in office. […]

      This belongs here, but I’m also bringing it over to a more recent post:
      https://www.emptywheel.net/2024/10/15/searching-for-jared-wise/#comment-1074378

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