As Russia Overtly Helps Trump Get Elected, Trump Continues to Check in with Vladimir Putin
According to CNN, Bob Woodward’s latest book reveals that Trump has spoken to Vladimir Putin as many as seven times since leaving the Presidency.
In one scene, Woodward recounts a moment at Mar-a-Lago where Trump tells a senior aide to leave the room so “he could have what he said was a private phone call with Russian President Vladimir Putin.”
“According to Trump’s aide, there have been multiple phone calls between Trump and Putin, maybe as many as seven in the period since Trump left the White House in 2021,” Woodward writes.
Woodward asked Trump aide Jason Miller whether Trump and Putin had spoken since he left the White House. “Um, ah, not that, ah, not that I’m aware of,” Miller told Woodward.
“I have not heard that they’re talking, so I’d push back on that,” Miller added.
Woodward writes that Biden’s Director of National Intelligence Avril Haines “carefully hedged” when asked about whether there were any post-presidency Trump-Putin calls.
“I would not purport to be aware of all contacts with Putin. I wouldn’t purport to speak to what President Trump may or may not have done,” Haines said, according to Woodward.
According to WaPo’s version of the Woodward story the incident where Trump asked an aide to leave the room happened in early 2024.
This is unsurprising. After all, Trump has repeatedly described speaking to Putin in advance of the Ukraine invasion, including fairly explicitly during the debate with Joe Biden.
When Putin saw that, he said, you know what? I think we’re going to go in and maybe take my – this was his dream. I talked to him about it, his dream. The difference is he never would have invaded Ukraine. Never.
But the confirmation that Trump keeps speaking to Putin is important for several other reasons.
We still don’t know where all the stolen documents are
If Trump was speaking to Putin before the Ukraine investigation and at least as recently as earlier this year, he was speaking to him during the investigation into his stolen documents, during the period when Trump was hiding boxes from his attorney to make sure he could steal documents.
Trump was going back and referring to some of these documents during the period he worked with Putin.
And perhaps most importantly, there were presumably classified documents loaded onto his plane on June 3, 2022 that got flown back to Bedminster, and probably some remained hidden at Mar-a-Lago (the FBI failed to search a room off Trump’s suite).
The FBI has never found the missing classified documents.
Trump was charged with hoarding some of America’s most secret documents in his basement. And during that entire period, he was checking in regularly with the leader of a hostile foreign country, the one who keeps helping him get elected.
Russian staged another operation to help defeat Joe Biden
Last month, Guardian revealed details of an information operation involving George Papadopoulos and Simona Mangiante, one for which she published an interview she did with sanctioned Russian agent Andrii Derkach. Relatedly, they rolled out yet more propaganda about Hunter Biden.
Working alongside contributors for Kremlin state media, the former Donald Trump policy aide George Papadopoulos, his wife, Simona Mangiante, and others have become editorial board members of the website Intelligencer, which is increasingly becoming a source of news for those in the rightwing ecosystem.
The growth of the website, which has not been reported on before, comes at a time when the US is seeking to crack down on Russian influence ahead of the 2024 election. Recently, the justice department charged two members of RT (formerly known as Russia Today) with violating the Foreign Agents Registration Act and money laundering for payments they allegedly made to “recruit unwitting American influencers”. It also placed sanctions on RT’s editor-in-chief, Margarita Simonyan, and nine other employees.
[snip]
Mangiante, his wife, has written several posts for the site about debunked conspiracy theories involving the Bidens and Ukraine. In January, she posted an interview with a former Ukrainian lawmaker, Andrii Derkach, who repeated false claims of bribery about the Biden family in Ukraine. In 2020, the US placed sanctions on Derkach, calling him an active Russian agent; Derkach, who now is running for political office in Russia, previously met with Rudy Giuliani and purported to offer evidence of corruption against the Bidens.
“Intelligencer appears to be one of several [Russia-friendly] operations targeting the upcoming US elections, leveraging a network of far-right figures and disinformation tactics,” Olga Lautman, a senior fellow at the Center for European Policy Analysis, said.
Mangiante, along with fellow board member Igor Lopatonok, appears to have parlayed this work into a new documentary about the Hunter Biden laptop saga called Hunter’s Laptop: Requiem for Ukraine. According to social media posts, the documentary premiered on 5 September at the Trump International hotel in Chicago. Eliason wrote the script, which was filmed by Lopatonok, who has frequently collaborated with Oliver Stone on prior anti-Ukrainian documentaries and fawning films of dictators.
Since Biden dropped out, I haven’t really dug into this as much as I might. It can wait. But suffice it to say these links are interesting beyond the most obvious ones. I believe that this ongoing effort targeting Hunter Biden is among the reasons Trump was so sad that Joe Biden dropped out: because Russia had already reloaded the ongoing information operation to work against Joe Biden.
But that’s not the only ongoing Russian operation. As part of the RT operation, for example, Russia was allegedly paying money to Lauren Chen, who also had a role at Turning Point America, the group that was supposed to lead Trump’s turnout operation.
In a warning about Russia’s plan to interfere issued in July, ODNI described that Russia was using “influential US voices” to push Russian support for Trump (and according to a new warning today, also for members of Congress who’ll abandon Ukraine).
“We are beginning to see Russia target specific voter demographics, promote divisive narratives and denigrate specific politicians. Moscow seeks to shape electoral outcomes, undermine electoral integrity and amplify domestic divisions,” the ODNI official said.
“To accomplish this, Moscow is using a variety of approaches to bolster its messaging and lend an air of authenticity to its efforts. This includes outsourcing its efforts to commercial firms to hide its hand and laundering narratives through influential U.S. voices,” the official said.
An influential US voice also mentioned in the RT indictment is Tucker Carlson, fresh off his visit to Vladimir Putin.
American media critics have made themselves tools of Russian disinformation
As it happens, just yesterday, the publisher of the Steele dossier that gave Republicans a way to claim the Russian story was something other than it was, Ben Smith, claimed that the Trump-Russia story is nothing more than “an embarrassment.”
The Trump-Russia story is at this point an embarrassment to everyone. Democrats couldn’t prove the most extensive allegations of plotting or that Russian Facebook ads swung the election. Republicans couldn’t deny that Russia was trying to help Trump, or prove their own more conspiratorial claims that the whole thing was a Hillary Clinton-made “Russia hoax.” At some point, American politics mostly moved on.
What the Russian investigation found is that Trump’s coffee boy, his campaign manager, his National Security Adviser, his personal lawyer, and his rat-fucker all lied to cover up the truth of what happened with Russia in 2016.
And yet because Trump successfully pardoned himself out of legal trouble, people like Ben yawn and say it’s over. And Trump’s successful pushback on the Russian story — assisted by the self-imagined savvy of people like Ben — means that no one has investigated the follow-on in 2020 and this year.
Vladimir Putin’s puppet makes house calls
And that has led the mainstream press to give just passing coverage of critical stories about Trump’s negotiations with Russia and its proxies.
Days before Biden dropped out of the race, I included Viktor Orbán’s trip to Mar-a-Lago among the stories getting ignored as everyone chased Joe Biden old stories.
Now, however, Trump no longer hides that he’s willing to let Putin dismember Ukraine. He welcomed Viktor Orbán’s pitch of a plan to do just that — but there has been no readout from Trump’s side of what happened. Orbán, however, has told other EU nations that Trump will moved for “peace” immediately after being elected — a replay of what Flynn lied to cover up in 2017 — largely by withdrawing US support for Ukraine.
In the past, Trump has gone even further than this, suggesting he’ll do nothing as Putin invades NATO states.
Meanwhile, JD Vance is, if anything, even more pro-Russian than Trump, as are some of the Silicon Valley oligarchs who now back Trump’s campaign since the Vance pick.
Trump’s plan of capitulation to Russia will go a long way to ending the Western rules-based order, the greatest wish of Putin and Xi Jinpeng.
And thus far we know just one of the things that Russia seems to be doing to help Trump’s campaign: detaining WSJ reporter Evan Gershkovich until Trump gets elected, just as Iran held onto hostages to help Reagan get elected. Avril Haines recently made clear Russia is planning on helping in other ways as well.
That’s how “Russia Russia Russia” has worked. It’s a shameless lie that Mueller found nothing, a lie built off years of propaganda. Indeed, Trump’s willing acceptance — or, in Rudy’s case, outright solicitation — of Russia’s help to get elected has only gotten more brazen. Yet rather than call Don Jr on his “Russia Russia Russia” lie, reporters simply let the pressing question of whether Trump will end the alliance of democracies in a second term go unasked.
Viktor Orbán is an absolutely central player in Republican plans, especially those — like Project 2025 — boosted by the Heritage Foundation. But there has been almost no curiosity about what’s behind that.
Another thing that got largely buried was Paul Manafort’s return to Trump’s campaign, even though since he last worked for Trump, it has been confirmed that his efforts resulted in Russian spies obtaining polling and the campaign’s strategy.
Because Trump has so successfully led journalists to be cowed by his “Russia Russia Russia” bullying, none of this has been a central story.
It needs to become one.
How many times has Putin spoken to Actual President Biden since he was inaugurated? I’d wager real money that it’s not more often than he’s spoken with Fake President Trump.
I’m missing something here, or…?
“According to WaPo’s version of the Woodward story this incident to early 2024.”
This makes my blood boil, even more than that time I took ivermectin.
The legality of these calls should matter.
I’m Vlad you weren’t harmed. You should be more careful as to what you Putin your body!
Speaking of Vlad, I’m paler now.
I’d say your response is Beyond the Pale…
But as long as you’re Romanian the building, don’t get defenestrated!
I hope your computer is a Mac because Putin knows what to do if you have Windows (or windows).
But is it boiling more or less than when someone sneaks up behind you and says “Vice President Joe Lieberman”?
Well…we wound up getting Vice-President Dick Cheney instead of VP Lieberman. Who now supports Harris/Walz. Would Lieberman have done that? Somehow I doubt that.
Punaise has some history with “Short Ride Joe” – his contempt for Joe is rather legendary in these parts. I was seeking to learn where this ranks on the Punaise “zero to Joe Lieberman” scale.
Smarmy rich-guy Joe Lieberman came to hate the Democrats and anyone left of Joe McCarthy. He would not have backed Harris//Walz. It seems more likely he would have pushed RFK Jr, as a spoiler, or his Republican-lite Third way, or remained coyly quiet and voted for Trump.
@ Peterr
October 8, 2024 at 4:04 pm
Yep, you nailed it! I believe it was “my contempt for Joe Lieberman will never abate or subside”. Now that he has shuffled off this mortal coil I suppose I can let go … a bit.
And here I thought I was alone. There is a long list of contemptible politicians in US history, but Joe holds a special place in my heart.
Nah.
I missed that he’d gone to his judgement.
PJ Evans @ 7:40
3/27/24. He was considering a presidential run in 2024 on the No Labels ticket but like RFK Jr., they couldn’t secure ballot spots nationwide (thankfully). I can’t imagine what a Lieberman/Manchin ticket would have done to to the existing electoral situation…
Those two GOP-lite would have given us a lot of material for jokes.
Joe shuffled off his mortal coil this past March.
I’ll never understand why Al Gore named Joe as his running mate.
To eoh:
Simple: FL Jewish votes. I really believe it was just that crass.
@ Knowa Tall
October 8, 2024 at 6:13 pm
The more painful, but well-earned, moniker, coined by Jane Hamsher herself as I recall, was “Rape Gurney Joe” .- you know, just wheel it on down to the next (non-catholic) hospital. Ouch.
You know, I realize I dodged the question. Given the exponentially worse awfullness of the Trump era. I have moved on.
re-earlofhuntingdon
October 8, 2024 at 8:41 pm
Are you saying you understand why McCain chose Palin?
NYT 10/7/2024
“According to a new book by Bob Woodward, Trump secretly sent Vladimir Putin Covid tests in 2020 (during US supply scarcity) & spoke w Putin up to 7 times after leaving office. The disclosures raise new questions about Trump’s relationship with Putin just weeks before the U.S. presidential election.”
It raises a lot of question about why we’re only finding this out NOW, and not like, a year or two back.
Exactly.
Salient point.
Mr. Woodward needed to save it for his book release. More publicity and sales. I don’t think this is the first time he withheld information the public needed for the same reason.
Same as book about Trump’s covid antics.
JD Vance and his embrace of the “strongman” viewpoint, Putin and Orban centric, grows legs, if you websearch = jd-vance curtis-yarvin
That gets video and text links, e.g. https://newrepublic.com/article/183971/jd-vance-weird-terrifying-techno-authoritarian-ideas — titie, and subtitle:
“Where J.D. Vance Gets His Weird, Terrifying Techno-Authoritarian Ideas
“Yes, Peter Thiel was the senator’s benefactor. But they’re both inspired by an obscure software developer who has some truly frightening thoughts about reordering society”.
One para-
“Yarvin’s disturbing manifestos have earned him influential followers, chief among them: tech billionaire Peter Thiel and his onetime Silicon Valley protégé Senator J.D. Vance, whom the Republican Party just nominated to be Donald Trump’s vice president. If Trump wins the election, there is little doubt that Vance will bring Yarvin’s twisted techno-authoritarianism to the White House, and one can imagine—with horror—what a receptive would-be autocrat like Trump might do with those ideas.”
When learning more of Yarvin, it gets worse. It fits an embrace of Putin imperial rule of Russia. The enlightened despot ideal, to Vance.
Maybe I shouldn’t say it, but I actually really enjoyed reading
those Biden quotes about various people…and that Harris quote at the end … :-)
proper pronunciation of curse words is a feature, not a bug.
Oh please do always say it, harpie! I had the same exact reaction!
What again are the rules of when the government is security monitoring foreign traffic, a U.S. party is the other end of a conversation? It gets heard, but does it have to be non-publicized? Kept under wraps? Or must the government back off?
Who translates for the convicted felon Trump? or does Putin speak English well enough? My wife used to joke that the only reason the convicted felon married Ivanna and Melania was because they could translate for him.
Hasn’t Trump’s preference always been to trust solely in Putin’s interpreter? Why should he have altered that preference, especially at a $ cost to himself?
Given his two decades in Soviet and Russian intelligence, including a stint as head of FSB, Putin presumably speaks English. He is fluent in German.
If Trump was alone when speaking with Putin, Putin might have provided a translator. Among other things, that gives Putin twice as long to think between comments. Using only one party’s translator is bad form for several reasons, one of which is that there’s no check on how accurate it is. As a groveling toady, that’s not something Trump would care about.
Remember this? https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/interpreter-marina-gross-notes-trumps-putin-meeting/story?id=60374126
I remember this.
https://www.emptywheel.net/2018/02/19/meanwhile-over-in-turkey/
Trump has a history of meetings without interpreters following phone calls from Putin.
The most important assets the two “immigrant ladies” have in common is: born and raised behind the Iron Curtain.
There are good excuses for tRump to visit the Evil (paper) empire without many red flags rising.
“tRump?” Is that a low-end cut of beef on sale at the local butcher’s or a typo?
echoes of good ol’ bmaz….
Exactly.
Wasn’t that what was left after Trump steaks went belly-up?
My wife first joked about that more than a decade ago.
Putin was a spy and he wouldn’t know the English language? Maybe not the way Trump speaks it.
The Hunt for Red October surprise?
(Woodward sure knows how time time this kind of disclosure to maximize his benefit, not the public’s)
Absolutely. I have been sitting here furious with Woodward. So. Damn. Selfish.
And he will now proceed to get lionized, again, by media figures who should know (and do) better. As is, “the great Bob Woodward,” “the legendary Bob Woodward,” ad nauseum.
To say nothing of the fact that his great conclusion (Trump is worse than Nixon) is one any sixth grader could have drawn. And many have.
Surely calls between Putin and Trump are monitored by the US intelligence community?
That’s a great question. I have zero expertise in this but I would presume that the answer must be yes, it’s possible, and if it is I also would assume the president and the veep are aware of the conversations and quite possibly the content.
I doubt it. If on the phone, ok. If on an app….no chance.
I don’t doubt it at all.
First, look at the top blockquote above, from CNN: “Woodward writes that Biden’s Director of National Intelligence Avril Haines “carefully hedged” when asked about whether there were any post-presidency Trump-Putin calls.”
Haines knows good and well that Trump and Putin have spoken. I can’t imagine Trump having anywhere near good enough tradecraft to hide something like this from the Intelligence community.
Second, and more potentially disturbing, I am reasonably sure that Putin knows that the US IC was listening in, and he used his calls to sow division and distrust. If Haynes were to come out and confirm something, it give the Russians clues about our signals intelligence capabilities. Putin could also use the calls to get inside the heads of the US IC, basically bating them into doing/saying something stupid.
Rather than using cutouts and cultivating layer upon layer upon layer of fascist and fascist-curious rightwing media folks, by talking straight to Trump, Putin can mainline his toxic brew right into the political discourse.
And I use the verb “mainline” deliberately. After leaving the WH, Trump likely needed a “I still matter” fix, and needed it more and more as each day passed and each indictment arrived. Nine phone calls seems about right for stringing a junkie along over a couple of years.
The disturbing question that keeps the US IC up at night is this: “How much is Trump willing to pay for getting his fix?” The fear is that it has something to do with what Marcy noted in the post: “The FBI has never found the missing classified documents.”
He has SS protection. Does he dictate to them when to leave the room when he’s meeting with someone? When he’s dining with someone? Meeting with his documents coconspirators?
Doubt it. MBS has a bag of about 50 burner cells. One labeled trump. I presume they are all using frequently changed out burner cells
So by what channel is Trump “talking” to Putin? A plain old phone? So every spook in the world is listening, except I suppose the NSA, CIA and FBI. Or they are listening but what can they do? Is there any other more secure channel available to “talk” to Putin?
It would have been a piece of cake to arrange a secure call on Signal between the two, had Russia – and other countries, like Venezuela – not recently blocked the service. I assume other such options exist. Or one of Putin’s courtiers, like Viktor Orban, left a handy dandy phone at MAL, with Putin’s private number in it.
You’re assuming that Putin is bothered by the NSA et al. listening in. As I noted above, I think Putin would relish that, and use it to his advantage.
I can easily see Trump screaming “campaign interference!” at any story that alleges that he and Putin were talking.
“… the website Intelligencer, which is increasingly becoming a source of news for those in the rightwing ecosystem….”
Awkward / confusing: the political / breaking news / editorial blog of New York Magazine – the journalistic home of esteemed Ed Kilgore, the less esteemed Jonathan Chait, and many others) is called Intelligencer.
this was my first thought too, surely they don’t mean the NY Magazine’s Intelligencer?!
“Because Trump has so successfully led journalists to be cowed by his “Russia Russia Russia” bullying, none of this has been a central story. It needs to become one.”
Agreed, but is this possible in today’s environment? The people signing paychecks aren’t about to push against anything that threatens their market share. Trump has been a money-making shiny object. Dangerous for sure, but oh so lucrative when legacy journalism needs money any way it can get it. What hill are such journalists and their corporate bosses willing to die on? Not this one. Not yet. They think they have plenty of time.
ORBAN today:
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/10/08/us/harris-trump-election/eec84381-5d42-578d-a672-866a35db9b0e
Oct. 8, 2024, 2:42 p.m. ET Jenny Gross
Also today,
“Hungary won’t agree to change sanctions on Russian frozen assets until US elections”
“ Hungary confirmed on Tuesday that it would not back the change in the EU sanctions on Russia’s immobilised assets that G7 allies need as guarantee to issue a €45 billion ($50 billion) loan to Ukraine until after the elections in the US next month.
The G7 project is designed to use the windfall profits of the Russian frozen assets to gradually repay the money given to Kyiv, exempting allies from footing the bill.”
https://nz.news.yahoo.com/hungary-hold-eus-35-billion-122208446.html
And, Tucker Carlson’s dad, Richard “Dick” Carson, lobbied for Orbán. Three sources, Greg Olear, Policy Impact Communication’s old home page, & Foreign Lobbying.com:
https://gregolear.substack.com/p/tucker-in-reverse
https://policyimpact.com/474257-home-page/
https://www.foreignlobby.com/2020/07/09/hungary-lobbying-dries-up-after-orbans-white-house-visit/
“PAST VOA DIRECTORS – Richard W. Carlson (1986-1991)”
“Other significant aspects of Carlson’s term as director included opening a Moscow bureau and coverage of the Tiananmen Square student demonstrations in 1989, the end of Soviet jamming, and establishment of the Creole Service. He also oversaw the newly-launched Radio Martí broadcasting to Cuba.”
https://www.insidevoa.com/a/4499736.html
More about Tucker, Orbán relationship from Just Security here:
“Tucker Carlson, Viktor Orbán and the Anti-Democracy Playbook”
https://www.justsecurity.org/88319/tucker-carlson-viktor-orban-and-the-anti-democracy-playbook/
Thanks for that, Maryelle!
Yes, thanks, Maryelle!
This is from today:
Von der Leyen attacks Orbán’s support for Russia in fiery speech to European Parliament Strong pushback from European Commission president comes one month before grilling of future commissioners. https://www.politico.eu/article/ursula-von-der-leyen-attacks-viktor-orban-support-russia-speech-eu-european-parliament-hungary-ukraine-war/
October 9, 2024 11:40 am CET
A transcript of her speech is linked in the article. One excerpt:
Continuing directly:
This posting/piece by EW is critically important!
The Trump & Putin Helsinki press conference enabled anyone who could fog a mirror to see for themselves that Putin controlled Trump.
Fiona Hill saw it in person. She was aghast.
Like the Raymond Shaw character in the film Manchurian Candidate, Trump is the Russian Candidate.
A vote for Trump is a vote for Putin.
So, who is Moscow Mitch going to vote for?
Since Mitch M. has publicly stated he no longer wishes to be the Senate Majority Leader if the Republicans regain the majority in the Senate, he’ll not vote for Trump, nor will he vote for Harris. He simply won’t vote for a presidential candidate in 2024.
I predict many Republicans will do the same in 2024.
I hate to burst your bubble, really! But this was settled way back in March:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/mitch-mcconnell-endorses-donald-trump-president-rcna142049
Then they really are doing nothing to help keep Trump from being elected. If they truly did not want him re-elected or were so concerned with democracy, they would vote for Harris. Simply saying you aren’t voting for trump doesn’t give Kamala more votes. I think they are truly so heinous they can’t bring themselves to vote for a Black woman for the sake of democracy.
“enabled anyone who could fog a mirror”
Simply brilliant.
“Just Some Guy
October 8, 2024 at 6:49 pm
I hate to burst your bubble, really! But this was settled way back in March:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/mitch-…”
Yes, McConnell endorsed Trump seven months ago after Haley announced she had dropped out and Trump had won enough primary votes to secure the nomination. At that time, McConnell had no choice but to endorse the candidate who won the nomination of his party.
A lot of information about Trump’s criminal behavior has been released to the public since last March. I don’t think Trump is as popular today as he was last March, especially with Republican office holders and candidates who, like Liz Cheney, believe in the Rule of Law and upholding their oath to the Constitution.
No worries about bursting my bubble as early in my life I learned to drink bubbles instead of immersing myself in a bubble. Bubbles for drinking must be tiny, steady and always streaming. Thank God for Ay.
To my knowledge, McConnell and Trump still hate each other and prefer not spending time together.
And yet, with all of that, there is simply no evidence that Mitch will not vote for Trump. Given his public voting record in the Senate, which includes two votes for acquittal in Trump’s Senate Impeachment trials, it is just not credible to claim that Mitch will not vote for Trump in the presidential election especially as there is an expectation of privacy.
I look at Putin and I look at Netanyahu. Is Trump talking to one more than the other, or do we only presume?
I can see it now, Trump and Vance in Blues Bothers outfits including sunglasses and a big banner over their heads that says, “We’re on a mission from Vlad.”
Yeah but in that bizarro world version, the Give-Us-The-Blues Brothers love Illinois Nazis. And other ones, too.
Ah, the hilarious story of the day. In which former U.S. President, and agent-of-chaos who single-handedly warped the Republican party into a bunch of election deniers, Russia-lovers, and grifters… (well, almost-single-handedly) is discovered to be secretly communicating with an unfriendly head of state (as opposed to openly communicating with an unfriendly head of state!).
In a normal world, such treason would immediately be condemned and the perp would be prosecuted. But in today’s bizarro world, nothing will happen and furthermore, the RWNM will somehow blame this on communist pet-eating Democrats and who are destroying their beloved country (which has never existed the way they imagine it, except in their wildest fever dreams).
What does it say about me that I can’t find the headlines about this story shocking, or surprising, or even upsetting? I read one of the headlines and literally laughed out loud. After so many outrageous acts by Trump and his minions, I feel numb and unable to be outraged anymore. Its like the Donald Trump cherry-on-top. Its like a final fuck-you to anyone who appreciates democracy and rule of law and thinks that U.S. foreign policy should be left to the actually-elected President and his administration.
Harris better win this election, and then Americans better do some soul-searching on whether they would prefer be ruled by competent plutocrats, or outright fascist villains.
I wonder if this story (which is pretty bad) is even in the top 5 worst things we’ve learned about Trump’s involvement with adversaries of the U.S. Or even the top 10.
Remember back in 2017 when he disclosed secret intelligence to Russians in the oval office?
Remember the summer of 2018 when he stood next to Putin at a press conference and accepted Putin’s claim to be innocent, despite evidence to the contrary from several U.S. intelligence agencies?
Remember February 2022 when Russia carried out its full-scale invasion of neighboring Ukraine, and Trump described Putin as a ‘genius’ and ‘savvy’ for pulling it off?
Its hard to believe that a large chunk of the U.S. population is going to vote for a grifter, conman, unhinged liar who repeatedly gives at least the appearance of betraying U.S. interests to vile dictators like Putin. You’d think patriotic Americans would expect better.
I don’t think that the large Fox “News” audience has any idea of Trumps’ subservience to Putin. But they tend to have a lot of ideas and thoughts that are provably false about it.
Remember getting an email in 2014 from a Russian coworker asking if he could skip his Ukraine work, heavy shelling in the area. Extremely unsettling, and it keeps getting worse 10 years later.
I feel your pain, but we don’t use the “T” word lightly here.
Communicating with Russia isn’t an act of treason b/c because we’re not at war with Russia.
Amen regarding not using the “T” word without proper foundation.
I beg to differ on that. While we are not shooting at them and them us, we have been at war with Russia since the middle of last century in one form or another and currently we are Aiding a country they are directly at war with. Communicating with Putin and quite possibly trading in some fashion classified intelligence is a crime and may well rise to the T word. And he’s not the president anymore so no presumed immunity.
There’s a reason scientists, lawyers, and others use precise jargon for things. The colloquial understanding of words isn’t unambiguous or reliable enough to describe things, let alone to impose legal consequences for them.
We may not be at war with Russia, but an argument can be made that Russia is at war with us (the alliance of Western democracies).
ExRacerX makes a good point about the ‘t’ word. That just slipped in there, I didn’t mean it in any constitutional sense.
US may not be shooting at them, but US weapons and ammo are.
Still willing to accept the legal parsing of ‘treason’, but, for purposes of erudition, what is the noun for traitorous acts and the person who commits them?
“Treachery” and “traitor.”
What’s the matter with “sedition” and “seditionist”? They’re more accurate, to EOH’s point. Precise language is not just for lawyers and scientists, it’s for anybody and everybody who wishes to communicate clearly.
Aren’t we currently in a proxy war with Russia?
Please hang on, we need you
We all see the bullshit. Please hang tight.
I agree. This is heinous, but I’m far from shocked. I mean, who can’t figure out from even his schizophrenic rambling that his bromance with Orban is more than the occasional visit at a Mar A Lago? Who thought he was going to break things off with Putin when he lost in 2020, when he has been a Russian agent/mobster for decades. Even now, though, the outrage seems focused on the talking. Talking isn’t the problem. They could text, email, or send letters. Someone better be finding out what they have planned for the election, and the aftermath whether trump wins and loses. The FBI has already arrested an Iranian Election Day plotter in OK. I imagine this conspiracy is vast and deep, the violence not left to amateurs this time.
Speaking of the Iran hostages and Reagan, Craig Unger has a new book out detailing the October Surprise, and his extensive reporting over the past 30 years on the matter.
I highly recommend this book, which gave me feelings of deja vu, seeing how some stories won’t be covered accurately in the media, or even in Congressional investigations. And how the events and people involved lead right into major ongoing events.
Oh, and here’s Papadopolous’s business partner wishing Putin a happy birthday on main, rubbing in our face. Even making sure to send it on Moscow time.
https://archive.is/iRteq
In addition to the WaPo, the Guardian also has a little blow-by-blow from Christopher Steele, according to whom some of the secrets Trump took to Mar-a-Lago included “British naval secrets.” Now why would he want those?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/oct/08/trump-christopher-steele-book
Navel secrets… the U.K. citrus crop is on grave danger!
Now he knows the innies and outies of the British secrets.
Creme tangerine and montelimar
A ginger sling with a pineapple heart
Well, have some gatorade, it appears to be doing wonders, “Some hospitals are giving patients Gatorade and oral medicine instead of IV fluids as they grapple with a shortage after Hurricane Helene
Some Main Line Health patients are receiving Gatorade to preserve supplies for the most critically ill. Other Philadelphia-area hospitals are using oral medications when possible.” https://www.inquirer.com/health/iv-fluid-shortage-philadelphia-hurricane-helene-20241008.html
Kumquatary to popular belief, the UK’s citrus crop has always been in great danger.
I hope they now go and take a look at the oranges, the oranges of British citrus, the beginnings of that crop.
You’re so garrulous, loquat-ious even.
Did you mean ‘origins’?
It’s just a Cointreau away. Heads I win, tails you lose.
It may not be treason or a crime, but it certainly isn’t appropriate activity. It just amazes me there are Americans who are going to vote for Trump. Yikes. Might have been nice if Woodward had released the book a tad earlier, but hey, its the bank account which counts. Sitting just a bit north of the American/Canadian border none of this gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling. I’m sure Putin and Trump have much to discuss. It would be nice if there were tapes of the conversations, but ……….would it even have an impact on voters.
Steve Herman [VOA] with Kremlin response from Moscow Times:
https://bsky.app/profile/w7voa.journa.host.ap.brid.gy/post/3l636hhnpjof2
October 9, 2024 at 6:56 AM
I did an outline of a TimeLine about ORBAN’s travels from March to mid-July 2024:
https://www.emptywheel.net/2024/07/15/the-taiwan-snub/#comment-1060622
It started out in a previous comment with
“When Hungary’s ORBAN recently met with TRUMP, he called it “Peace mission 5.0””
and
“There is a lot from this [ew] post that could expand on this outline,
and items from the US political calendar will fit in, too.” [< I never got around to that part]
Suppose, hypothetically, there was an October Surprise back channel from the Trump campaign to delay Gaza hostage release.
How high up on the suspect list would Orban be as a liaison with the Trump campaign? As part of this “Peace Mission”
Sorry for the OT…but !!!!!! JFC
Jack Goldsmith, 10/9/24:
Jack Smith Owes Us an Explanation
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/09/opinion/jack-smith-trump-biden.html Oct. 9, 2024
Here’s Jack Goldsmith [and Benjamin Wittes], 10/29/16:
James Comey, Hillary Clinton, and the Email Investigation: A Guide for the Perplexed
https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/james-comey-hillary-clinton-and-email-investigation-guide-perplexed October 29, 2016
IMPOSSIBLE
Reminds me of first 10 seconds of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_Q0eDFXDx4
Political? Hmmm. From the Guardian: The FBI conducted a sham investigation into Brett Kavanaugh. Surprised?
I’d say it’s more that Goldsmith owes us an explanation as to why we should believe his argument has any credibility, especially coming from a lawyer formerly part of the George W. Bush administration. I don’t know if Goldsmith was personally involved in the Brooks Brothers Riot, but I mean, c’mon dude, how gullible do you think the public is?
Marcy writes about this here:
https://www.emptywheel.net/2024/10/09/bombshell-news-jack-smith-did-consult-about-timing-before-adopting-post-scotus-path/
THANKS!
Jack Smith does not owe Jack Goldsmith jack shit.
SCOTUS took their sweet, biased time screwing with a case brought months earlier and then tossed a hand grenade into US jurisprudence. As EW pointed out, Smith is following Judge Chutkan’s calendar.
NYT platforming Goldsmith’s nonsense = one more reason I’m so glad I cancelled my subscription months ago.
The mystery around the binder’s whereabouts is yet another reminder of the Trump administration’s dangerous disregard for national security and of the ongoing lack of accountability for the former president’s mishandling of classified documents. Thanks to compromised Cannon no accountability !
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An article at the Hill today, byline Ellen Mitchell, quotes a X message by Susan Rice that suggests that Trump’s post-presidency calls with Putin (if verified) could be in violation of the Logan Act.
Susan Rice: Trump’s reported calls with Putin appear illegal
What’s irritating besides Woodward’s timing: this isn’t the only likely Logan Act violation by a member of the Trump family.
https://www.reuters.com/world/kushner-has-discussed-us-saudi-diplomacy-with-saudi-crown-prince-2024-10-04/
I’d like to know how much these two asshats undermined Biden’s foreign policy efforts. Meanwhile, NYT is publishing bullshit about Biden’s failed Middle East foreign policy, completely ignoring the fact Netanyahu is a bad faith actor who may be tag teaming with Trump and Kushner.
You got that right.
The tag-team includes Netanyahu LITERALLY in Kushner’s bed, Trump origionally saying ‘Most people think I’m Jewish anyway,’ after Jared Kushner told him Ivanka was converting and they planned to marry [NO ONE EVER thought Trump Jewish], and now Trump’s got the hate on for Netanyahu.
Go figure. And my People have seen some complicated shit.
Trump has also been sending Rick Grenell, who hopes to be Secretary of State in a second Trump administration, off to various countries in what would also seem to be possible violations of the Logan Act. Grenell for example was in Guatemala while the elites delayed the swearing in ceremony of President Arévalo for some nine hours, hoping for a last minute ruling to prevent him from taking the office he won nearly two to one.
Here’s more:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/05/richard-grenell-trump-far-right-foreign-policy
So we can add the Logan Act to the long list of things that Trump should be, but most likely won’t be, indicted for.
The Logan Act’s been on that list since Trump assumed office in 2016.
If he isn’t indicted under Logan, maybe they just rename the Logan Act as TRUMP. Then everyone would know, right off, what the offense was, and it’d get more play. They named the Tokyo Rose Statutes that way.
Experience is knowledge. With Trump bewitched by Putin, he can move to Russia participating in authoritarian dictatorship “up close and personal.” The two can vacation in Siberia bare-chested horseback riding drinking Russian vodka to stay warm eating borscht and pelmeni.
From https://x.com/innercitypress/status/1844099298755215796
Aug 9
Today @SDNYLIVE ARTHUR PETROV, a dual Russian and German national, extradited from #Cyprus charged with export control violations, smuggling, wire fraud, and money laundering in a scheme to procure U.S.-sourced microelectronics on behalf of a Russia-based supplier
3:35 PM · Oct 9, 2024
Update: 2 more added to Russia sanctions case: ZHANNA SOLDATENKOVA and RUSLAN ALMETOV indicted along with ARTHUR PETROV for a scheme to procure U.S.-sourced microelectronics subject to U.S. export controls on behalf of… the Russian military
And from yesterday, @innercitypress appears to be the only media there.
https://www.innercitypress.com/sdny139castelnunesnbcicp100824.html
Seth Meyers skewered Trump for this on his show, Late Night with Seth Meyers.
One part they mentioned that I haven’t noticed being mentioned in other places. Meyers highlights that the NYT article mentions Trump discussing sending COVID tests to Putin in a May 7, 2020 telephone call.
And in a press conference that very same day, Trump said to Americans that COVID testing was overrated.