The “Truth” about JD Vance
Before the Vice Presidential debate last night, I tested a hypothesis.
Hypothesis: Like Trump, JD is a sociopath.
Unlike Trump, JD is not a narcissist.
It’s a lot harder to work that to your advantage in a debate.
By that I meant that JD lies as much as Trump does, but because his ego is not as fragile as Trump’s, he would bulldoze through the same lies Trump wanted to tell without getting distracted by his own ego.
That prediction held up. JD smoothly lied over and over again. This is a man who — by description — came naturally to pitching the Iraq invasion. Occasionally (such as when Walz noted that Trump built just 2% of his wall and Mexico didn’t pay for it), Vance seemed to visibly wince about how bad the product he’s selling is. But otherwise he smoothly pitched policies that only work when they come packaged in fear-mongering and hatred. He smoothly claimed that censorship by private companies was a bigger threat to democracy than Donald Trump siccing a mob on Mike Pence.
Earlier in the day before the Vice Presidential debate, I suggested one should read Amanda Marcotte and John Ganz’ columns of the day in tandem. The columns provide a useful background to the debate.
Marcotte observed that JD Vance routinely whines about press coverage not just because he’s thin-skinned, but because that whining is viewed as strength.
In the dull world of the extremely online right, where “cat lady” is forever the sickest of burns, it is also common to mistake throwing a tantrum for strength. “Free speech” is defined as “we speak, you listen — and faint in adoration.” Live in that space long enough and you start to think that yelling at a reporter for asking a question isn’t embarrassing behavior. No, in the online MAGA world, sputtering “How dare you!” at a journalist for doing their job is regarded as a feat of strength on par with storming the beach at Normandy. It’s tempting to see Vance whining yet again and assume that he’s sorely in need of therapy. That may be so, but it’s also true that his online space is a culture where whimpering like a spoiled child is mistaken for toughness, and he’s forgotten that most people are rightfully grossed out by it.
But in a piece explaining why there’s such a real risk Trump will still win, John Ganz raised another reason why, I think, JD whines so much about the media. Ganz noted that consensus media has collapsed in America — and Donald Trump has stepped into that void, cultivating rabid support from the fragmented world of disaffected conspiracy theorists left behind.
We are accustomed still to thinking of the country at its post-War self, dominated by mass media, mass politics, the mass movement, the struggle for political and cultural hegemony, that is to say, the struggle over the definition of common sense and what is “normal.” Prime Time. Must See TV. The water cooler. That’s all gone now. We should think of the United States today as being more like the country Gilbert Seldes portrays in his classic on 1800s America, The Stammering Century, where he documents not unified nation, but a patchwork of small movements lead by “fanatics, and radicals and mountebanks,” a country of “diet-faddists and the dealers in mail-order Personality; the play censors and the Fundamentalists; the free-lovers and eugenists; the cranks and possibly the saints…Sects, cults, manias, movements, fads, religious excitements…” Trump knows how to reach those people. Democrats today, much less so. Maybe they shouldn’t even try. I certainly think pandering to that tendency in American culture isn’t good. But maybe that’s not a tendency in American culture at all, it just is American culture.
Trump and Vance thrive on the fragmentation of America created by the collapse of the media. And so they treat the media as a performance of power.
Vance attacked experts and the media over and over in yesterday’s debate, appealing instead to “common sense.” He appealed to and encouraged distrust in government. His attack on what he falsely termed “censorship” was a defense of the crackpots Trump mobilized to attack the Capitol on January 6 (and he made two implicit defenses of Russian disinformation along the way).
The second most notable moment in the debate came when Vance complained that, “The rules were you weren’t going to fact check,” when he falsely claimed the Haitians in Springfield were undocumented. It was a tell. Vance and Trump need these false claims to sow division. They need these false claims to attack rationality.
Shortly before the debate, 60 Minutes announced that Trump was going to forgo their traditional pre-election interview. After 60 Minutes made the announcement, Trump’s bouncer-spox Steven Cheung tried to spin it in a way that didn’t amount to Trump chickening out again:
Here’s what Cheung said:
- Hunter Biden’s laptop
- Nothing was scheduled
- CBS was going to commit the “unprecedented” sin of fact-checking Trump
There’s a tiny bit more substance on the laptop comment than the normal invocation of “Hunter Biden’s laptop” as foundational moment in Trump’s cult than there normally is. Trump is complaining that he is owed an apology because Lesley Stahl refused to report on its contents in 2020 — ignoring the question of newsworthiness! — only after she could verify it.
Trump, 78, was referring to “60 Minutes” reporter Lesley Stahl admitting to him in a 2020 sitdown that she refused to cover The Post’s bombshell Hunter Biden laptop story in 2020 because “it can’t be verified.”
I learned that from NYPost, which didn’t wait to verify the hard drive of a laptop before it misrepresented what an email said, which used a copy of the hard drive copy that had at least one email added to it after it left John Paul Mac Isaac’s custody, and which itself was based on a copying process that resulted in 62% bigger copy (measured in page size — blame prosecutors for doing that!) than the underlying laptop.
Even as Xitter, Google, and Facebook censor the JD Vance dossier stolen from a Trump staffer far more aggressively than anyone ever throttled NYPost stories about the Hunter Biden hard drive (outlets besides Xitter are fairly invoking a policy against foreign malign influence campaigns; Xitter claims it’s about Vance’s privacy), Trump is claiming he was injured because news outlets didn’t chase a laptop copy to which they were not granted access by Trump’s own lawyer.
But the function of his invocation of a hard drive that even the FBI never validated serves as the same marker it always does: Four years later, four years in which media outlets have still never found anything more than dick pics and completely legal influence peddling, merely the invocation of the hard drive serves as the foundation of an object of faith for Trump’s mob. One must believe in it even if one cannot validate it. Goodness knows, that’s what got Hunter Biden convicted on gun crimes.
Relatedly, on Monday, Judge Robert Richardson finally ruled on John Paul Mac Isaac’s defamation claims: none of his defamation claims held up (partly because he was a limited public figure, partly because most of his defamation claims never even mentioned him. Hunter Biden’s counterclaim was dismissed on statute of limitation grounds. Along with Judge Rudy Contreras’ decision, last Friday, that the disgruntled IRS agents can’t intervene in Hunter’s lawsuit against the IRS, he can include their lawyers in his claims, but cannot sue for a Privacy Act violation, the rulings close off much of what we might learn from these lawsuits.
The Hunter Biden hard drive and its aftermath will continue to serve as an untethered article of faith among those who need to believe the Bidens are more corrupt than Trump and his son-in-law.
And in that same world of faith, neither Donald Trump nor JD Vance are going to willingly participate in a venue where their false narrative of fear might be disturbed by facts.
Most people treat debate as a draw. Virtually all agree that, like almost all VP debates, it won’t make an ounce of difference in the race, because they never do. Even after admitting the latter point, though, Bulwark’s Jonathan Last assessed JD’s success in smoothly delivering those lies differently.
Vance was so good that I wonder if this debate might become a case of catastrophic success. Because tomorrow a whole bunch of people in Conservatism Inc. are going to be talking about how Vance is the post-Trump savior they’ve been waiting for.
I wonder what Donald Trump will think about that?
That’s the question I kept coming back to, all night long.
[snip]
I doubt Vance did anything meaningful to help Trump’s electoral prospects. But he absolutely helped his own prospects for 2028, or 2032, or whenever Trump leaves the scene.
Or gets pushed.
Donald Trump created his own fictional character, the successful tycoon who gets things done by firing people and exacting revenge.
JD has no such persona. He has, instead, a flawless ingratiating ability to deliver lies credibly.
The debate is not going to affect the election.
But I think JD did what he needed, for his own wildly ambitious goals: He doubled down on undermining democracy, and ratcheted up the professionalism of Trump’s attack on truth.
Update: Added the ad that Harris did of the JD non-answer.
The “truth”, as you put it in the headline, is an apt phrase.
To me, your final paragraph was hit hard when Walz asked Vance directly about who won the last election. When Vance tap danced — “I’m focused on the future” — Walz hit him hard. “That’s a damning non-answer.”
It is indeed.
Walz struck me as a teacher faced with a smug little high schooler who is lying his ass off in class. He was caught between shock at the straight-up lies Vance told and trying to maintain his professionalism in the face of it all. Kids can act up and act out, but the teacher has to remain in control of his emotions and not lash out.
The use of “damning” is as close as Walz came to letting go.
It will be interesting, down the road, to learn precisely what the thinking was. Because there were several times when Walz was staring boggle eyed at what JD was saying.
JD is a shrewd slick deflector. Walz took the high road – civility.
I was very impressed with the responses given by Walz. I found them to be informative and tied to his first-hand experience as a governor. Like when he was talking about housing and challenged Vance on which regulations should be removed, because many are state and local that pertain to safety. Although it wasn’t overly obvious, Walz systematically displayed his wealth of experience and J D Vance’s lack of experience.
There is nothing to keep Walz from going back over those moments and laser focus on those now to address Vance’s lies because we now know, fact checking would have sunk JD’s boat of lies. He as much as admitted that in real time.
I just wish I could have been on that mic mute switch. Oh that would have been a joy!
That’s a good assessment, as usual, but I don’t necessarily agree that the debate will not affect the election…if the Harris team uses the Vance soundbites therefrom adeptly.
E.g., Vance’s dissembling on several issues, like Springfield, abortion, J6, etc (the list is as long as his answers were) can be set up in campaign ads opposite actual video clips and blockquotes that he an Trump have spouted over the last days, months and years.
I’ll be very disappointed if they don’t do that post haste, going forward. Sometimes I wish they’d hire the Colbert crew for that kind of purpose, but without the laugh lines, just for the way they’re so good at highlighting that dichotomy between Trumpist rhetoric and reality — and doing it in record time . Maybe the Lincoln folks will pitch in, as well as the Harris team this month, and hopefully it will be a swift, prolific effort. The material from last night is staring them in the face and it isn’t hard to sort through, certainly.
They have one on Jan6.
https://x.com/Tim_Walz/status/1841446025325601010
Yow! That was hyper-quick and damn effective. And the time stamp was 5 minutes before my post above! They were up all night for that one! Colbert, eat your heart out!
Ok, let’s hope they keep ’em comin’! If so, the VP debate goes from a wash to a Harris blowout.
That is really good!
How Walz introduces that segment in the Xeet this morning:
Exactly.
And if using Vance soundbites, be emphatic in mentioning age and apparent health of Trump as the intro. Get that in!
The NY Post could not even accurately report on which model of laptop Hunter allegedly dropped off.
In real time, regular people could use the reported Apple serial number to see that the laptop has a removable hard drive that prevents Mac Isaac’s drag-and-drop-and-accudentally-invade-privacy technique to notice the files relevant to news about Hunter and Burisma, and oddly later get all worked up about Kolomoisky.
Even in Miranda Devine’s new book, she quotes Mac Isaac saying it was a “thirteen-inch 2016 MacBook Pro, had power problems and kept shutting down.”
Later, when describing the trial in Delaware, she describes “prosecutor Derek Hines held aloft the silver MacBook Pro 13”, without mentioning the year.
This is a slight of hand the Devine does many, many times. Because she knows it’s a 2017 model, Mac Isaac knows it’s a 2017 model. He’s admitted to going to the websites to enter in the serial number.
It’s stunning that no reporters and journalists fact check on something so basic and call them out on this lie, which causes the whole cover story to fall apart.
Also, it should not be lost to historical record, the fitting timing of events.
As Hunter’s legal ecourse against Mac Isaac is terminated due to statute of limitations, there is a major escalation in Israel -Iran conflict. With Netanyahu warning that change in Iranian leadership will come sooner than expected and that a hot war with Iran may break out. Said in English of course because the audience is Americans, not the Iranian people addressed in the message. A man whose goal appears to be to get the United States to fight a war with Iran on his behalf.
Then followed by Iranian missiles fired at Israel that involved American support to defend.
Klippenstein even writes headline “We’re at War With Iran”.
https://www.kenklippenstein.com/p/were-at-war-with-iran
When Trump, Vance, and their right-wing zealots complain about fact-checking, what they’re really complaining about is the facts themselves.
Case in point:
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4901624-boebert-interview-climate-change/
I can’t help thinking that JD Vance is the billionaires’ choice to replace Trump. He’s ambitious, a smooth liar, and knows who his daddy is. He also seems to be a true believer in the goals of Project 2025.
If Trump weren’t such a stupid narcissist, he’d be looking over his shoulder to make sure that Vance isn’t researching the 25th Amendment.
Well it is Project 20″25″, after all.
With someone in Trump’s age and physical shape, a sudden health event is easy to arrange, and might not even be necessary to arrange. I just flashed on a related possibility: if a meme gets out there that that’s just what Vance is up to, Trump’s natural paranoia will change the whole dynamic between them. Maybe just floating that Project 2025 is indeed about the Amendment, not the year. He’s that stupid — not that Vance isn’t that Machiavellian, of course.
The scariest line for me last night was Vance saying he’s only 40 years old. This fucker will haunt us for a long time if he isn’t made politically redundant in relatively short order.
Yes. I believe VANCE has been groomed for that purpose.
I have seen a Future
And it smirks,
If that was an oblique Prince reference, well done.
Oh he believes in Project 2025 and was actively signaling to that crowd. He wants the taxpayer to fund catholic daycare. I hope the Dems make fun of JD “side eye Vance as that tell should be exploited as he clearly was educated by Walz on that stage.
JD Vance also embraced the fever dream of Western Republicans by offering to sell our public lands to solve the housing crisis. Walz rightly recognized that Minnesota protects the headwaters of the Mississippi, which can directly be tied to US western public lands protecting the water in the west. Republicans want to sell those lands and control those water rights.
Republicans like Vance are locusts striving to eat up the earth then asking god to save them went that plan goes wrong.
Trump and Vance are correct, round up all who have crossed the border, unhouse them, and the housing prices should decline per Econ 101 supply/demand.
NOBODY asked, yet, how will you implement mass deportations, how will it be financed, what will it cost, and who’s going to take the deported people into their nation. Moderators asked, what if parents and children are separated? That is a question. It is not the question. It has a sentimental dimension. There is much more of a reality dimension. Trump has no real plan for the real dimensions of what he says he’d do.
It is fantasy. Fund it via tariffs? That is hitting price of goods, big time, at each step of the supply chain, and that is more a burden on those with less money. And do you propose tariffs on mideast oil? Tariffs are a disguised retro tax, not a progressive tax like income tax with growing tranches. An indirect tax in that the people pay, via higher costs and prices, while foreign goods will cost more and there will be ordinary tariff results. Again supply/demand.
And the moderators. Ask hard questions. Then let them say what-the-fuck they want to say, actual questions/answers be damned. It was a show. Entertainment. Walz took notes, looking down as he scribed. JD went without notes, looking sociopathicly sincere into the camera full time.
Vance conveyed an aura of self-confidence. His voicing of things had an edge, to me a turn-off, and when he spoke of not trusting expertise, Walz did not jump, “What, trust you and Trump instead? I’d rather trust all the Project 2025 stuff, your willing excuse for anything resembling expertise. And, I don’t trust your Justices, not a one of them. They killed Roe with hand waving. How can a liar like you, in fact, be trusted? Haitians eating pets in Ohio. Round up millions of people without any plan or way to pay for it or place to put them. Who takes them if they are sent off?”
Everybody has an opinion. That’s mine. It was a non-debate. It showed either of the two speaks well enough to be President when talking about anything they choose. There was little else. Walz stayed closer to what was asked. Vance made every question an immigration answer.
Your final sentence was the point – endless War
With the cost of buying a house (and the current paperwork and process of buying a house)- illegal immigrants are not buying houses to the point of driving up competition and prices. This is Trump/Vance fear/hate migrants nonsense talk.
Housing and the housing market has become a get-rich/stay-rich commodity that is manipulated by those with the power to do so just like other commodities are manipulated to benefit those with power.
Marcy, in response to nycsouthpaw who said
“CBS news presenting ethnic cleansing as housing policy”:
https://bsky.app/profile/emptywheel.bsky.social/post/3l5jt5jivj227
October 2, 2024 at 9:18 AM
Re: CBS TRUMP interview:
6:00 PM CBS makes announcement
[before] 7:30 PM TRUMP’s Sumo-Guy spins
8:22 PM Brian Stelter reports:
Via Heather Cox Richardson:
https://x.com/brianstelter/status/1841272468696092705 8:22 PM · Oct 1, 2024
To be clear…Sumo [something] is TRUMP’s nickname for Cheung.
WHAT The WHAT
As if all Asian and Asian heritage people are the same — no problem using a Japanese word as a nickname for a Chinese American??
JFC another example of Trump’s racist bullshit.