Useful Idiot Networks, Now Featuring Elon Musk and Don Jr.

As I noted in my piece in The New Republic the other day and as I have before, there’s a figure in the Twitter DM lists presented at the Douglass Mackey trial, using the moniker P0TUSTrump and referred to by others as “Donald,” who pushed the group to spread the PodestaFiles hashtags WikiLeaks had adopted on the same day that WikiLeaks had directly encouraged Don Jr to promote those hashtags.

[I]n an interview with Mackey last year, Donald Trump Jr. admitted that he had been added to the chat rooms. There’s even a persona on the lists who used the moniker “P0TUSTrump,” whom others called Donald, who pushed the John Podesta leaks in the same days that WikiLeaks encouraged Don Jr. to disseminate them. That user aimed to use the same trolling method to “Make #PodestaEmails4 Trend” so that “CNN [a]nd liberal news forced to cover it.”

If P0TUSTrump is Don Jr, it means that WikiLeaks piggybacked on the trusted network of this trolling group by getting Don Jr, a trusted member of it, to suggest pushing WikiLeaks. The trolls were otherwise occupied doing things that more directly impugned Hillary Clinton, but when P0TUSTrump suggested they push the Podesta hashtags, they all turned to doing that.

That may not have been an accident. There are many ways via which that group could have been discovered by WikiLeaks supporters and/or Russia. If they had, Don Jr’s since-admitted inclusion in it would be one of the most lucrative features of the group, a really dumb member of Trump’s family who commanded a lot of trust from the group. Don Jr was (and remains) really easy to manipulate, and by manipulating him, you can direct entire groups.

These networks matter not just for the work they do and the memes they put out. These networks matter because they can be mapped and exploited. Don Jr is going to be a ready point of weakness in any network because, well, he’s Don Jr.

The same is true of Elon Musk.

In my piece arguing that people were overstating what a comment in the Doppelgänger affidavit about the project identifying 2,800 influencers and 1,900 anti-influencers meant, I noted that there had already been signs that those behind the effort were exploiting the way that Musk very publicly acts on Xitter (public behavior documented through a whole lot of journalism about how Musk has ordered Xitter engineers to make it work this way).

Even if SDA were doing more, it would in no way signal full “collaboration.” An earlier report on Doppelgänger’s work (one I’m still looking for, to link), for example, described how Doppelgänger would exploit the way Elon Musk uses his Xitter account to piggyback on his visibility to magnify pro-Russian content with no involvement from him. Elmo is so predictable and so stupid with his Xitter account it requires no payment or even witting involvement to be exploited in such a way.

Like Don Jr, Elon Musk is very important, very trusted among a key network, and painfully easy to dupe. And in his case, the algorithms deliberately magnify any network effects of his influence.

You would not necessarily have to recruit Elon Musk to be a Russian stooge (though some of his close advisors might make that easier to do). You would only need to recruit those whom he trusted to exploit him as a useful idiot.

Keep that in mind as you read this analysis of how much content from Tenet Media Musk shared.

Musk has frequently replied to or reposted content from three conservative pundits formerly paid by Tenet: Tim Pool, Dave Rubin and Benny Johnson. From the public launch of Tenet Media in November 2023 until the release of the indictment, Musk interacted with Pool’s account at least 32 times, Rubin’s at least 11 times and Johnson’s at least nine times, according to searches of X’s archives. He did so on a wide array of subjects including immigration, presidential politics and homelessness.

[snip]

In August, Musk replied “!!” to a Tenet post on X criticizing diversity training at NASA. That post by Tenet received 1.9 million views, far more than Tenet’s typical posts, although it’s impossible to determine how much Musk helped. In April, Musk replied with the monocle emoji to a Tenet video about “eco-terrorism.”

Musk has used his influence to spotlight some of Tenet’s individual creators, too. In mid-August, Musk had a back-and-forth with then-Tenet Media pundit Lauren Southern, which began with her saying most people misunderstand Musk and Trump.

“Anyone who thinks the media is real is an idiot,” Musk responded, getting more than 647,000 views.

“Much work to do in reversing this brain rot,” Southern wrote back.

“Much work indeed. And it’s far worse in Europe. People really believe the media there!” Musk replied.

Lauren Chen didn’t pick Dave Rubin and Tim Pool to recruit because they were her buddies or because they would be profitable (though the fact that they were her buddies made her more useful). Rather, they were on a list that her handler gave her. The project was built around people like them.

Beginning in or about February 2023, Founder-1 solicited Commentator-I and Commentator-2 to perform work on behalf of “Eduard Grigoriann.” For example:

a. On or about February 6, 2023, Persona-1 emailed Founder-1 a “shortlist of candidates” for the YouTube channel, including Commentator-1 and Commentator-2. In the same email, Persona-1 attached a receipt for an $8,000 money transfer from an entity in the Czech Republic (“Czech Shell Entity-I “) to Founder-1 ‘s Canadian company, Canadian Company-1. Persona-I requested that Founder-I submit an invoice for Founder-1 ‘s “consultation services” to Czech Shell Entity-I, which Persona-I described as “our Czech sister company.” Czech Shell Entity-I has a website purporting to sell automobile parts, but also listing unrelated services (e.g., “CyberAmor Suite, Fortifying Your Digital Defenses”). The website makes no mention of “Eduard Grigoriann,” Persona-I, Persona-2, Persona-3, Viewpoint Productions, or Hungarian Shell Entity-I.

[snip]

c. On or about February 8, 2023, F ounder-1 reported to Persona-I on Founder1 ‘s outreach to Commentator-I and Commentator-2. Founder-I advised that Commentator-I said “it would need to be closer to 5 million yearly for him to be interested,” and that Commentator-2 said “it would take 100k per weekly episode to make it worth his while.” Founder-I cautioned that “from a profitability standpoint, it would be very hard for Viewpoint [i.e., the initial publicfacing name of the new venture] to recoup the costs for the likes of [Commentator-I] and [Commentator-2] based on ad revenue from web traffic or sponsors alone.” Despite Founder-1 ‘s warning that Commentator-I and Commentator-2 would not be profitable to employ, on or about February 14, 2023, Persona-I informed Founder-I that “[w]e would love to move forward with [Commentator-I and Commentator-2].”

And one reason you pick someone like Tim Pool is because you know that Elon Musk will promote his idiotic commentary, which not only ensures the widest possible dissemination, but uses Musk’s credibility to gain credibility for the project itself.

You piggyback on Pool’s credibility with Musk to piggyback on Musk’s credibility and reach.

The thing about these networks of right wing influencers is they offer a cascade effect. You pay off or persuade one or six useful idiots and the entire network becomes your useful idiot.

Update: In related news, the Guardian has a close focus on what George Papadoupoulos and his spouse, Simona Mangiante, have been up to, building a network around the Hunter Biden laptop.

Amid the recent crackdown on Russian influence in American media, a group of former Trump advisers and operatives have quietly helped build a pro-Russian website that frequently spreads debunked conspiracy theories about the war in Ukraine, election fraud and vaccines.

Working alongside contributors for Kremlin state media, the former Donald Trump policy aide George Papadopoulos, his wife, Simona Mangiante, and others have become editorial board members of the website Intelligencer, which is increasingly becoming a source of news for those in the rightwing ecosystem.

[snip]

Intelligencer appears to be gaining in popularity. It recently had its best month for internet traffic, with an increase of nearly 300% during August, according to data from Similarweb, and its articles have been shared on social media by the conspiracist Alex Jones, former Trump White House staffer Garrett Ziegler and former Trump aide Roger Stone.

[snip]

Three other editorial board members also have close connections to the Trump campaigns. Leah Hoopes and Greg Stenstrom, both from Pennsylvania, have written a book falsely alleging the 2020 election was stolen. Both of them have been litigants in court cases challenging the results of the election in Pennsylvania, and Hoopes was one of Pennsylvania’s fake electors, who falsely signed paperwork saying that Trump had won the election.

Tyler Nixon, Roger Stone’s personal attorney, also serves on the board and hosts his own show on TNT Radio. The former Radio Sputnik journalist Lee Stranahan is also involved.

Nixon, Hoopes, Stenstrom and Stranahan did not respond to requests for comment.

Simona met with Andrii Derkach, the Russian spy who cultivated Rudy Giuliani, earlier this year and did a big roll-out of the efforts to return to Hunter Biden disinformation.

I have long believed that one reason Trump was so sad that Biden dropped out is that there were plans for shit like this that now have limited value.

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56 replies
  1. Tim Tuttle says:

    I’m beginning to believe that a lot of people aren’t just susceptible to disinformation, they actually enjoy being deceived. I have no idea why. I’m not a mental health expert. But something in a person’s psyche says “I’ll not just buy into your BS, I’ll live and breathe it”.

    Humans lack certain self awareness skills at every level. It’s tragic to watch in real time. We all suffer from it. To what degree is ultimately what separates us from the herd.

    • Skippy the Wonder Mule says:

      It’s been a while since I posted here and apologize if my name or email are not consistent.

      To answer your question, to wake up and realize that you are being lied to will cost almost every relationship that matters to you, and as primarily social creatures this outcome is unacceptable, so we choose whatever is necessary to prevent it.

      They are not behaving like humans because their social-monkey needs are threatened and so the higher brain functions are discouraged from kicking in.

      • Tech Support says:

        Everyone wants to know the truth, and everyone is also vulnerable to confirmation bias.

        The combination of humility and critical thinking skills needed to suppress the latter in pursuit of the former is not widely shared. While this is nothing new imo, social media (as it exists today) not only exposes the lack of these attributes in the larger population, it discourages their development.

      • earlofhuntingdon says:

        Everyone wants to know the truth? I’m more of the red pill, blue pill view. A lot of people would prefer the blue pill.

        • Tech Support says:

          Maybe a bit of semantic hair-splitting, but I think the vast majority of people will tell you they want to know the truth, right up until they actually hear it. Admitting (to yourself, let alone others) that you don’t want to hear the truth reflects a heightened degree of self-awareness in and of itself.

          Leaning on The Matrix metaphor a bit, I think in the real world you get way more Cypher-types who take the red pill and then immediately regret it.

      • EuroTark says:

        Terry Pratchett in his popular-science novel The Science of Discworld has a segment on education, which is referred to as “lies to children.” The basic premise is that as children we are taught the concept of truths, but as you progress up the ladder of education you’re more and more taught that the previous truth was just a simplification, and give you a new truth which is more complex and complete. At the end of the ladder, you discover that we really don’t know anything, all we have are best guess theories.

        This has some interesting connotations to where people step off the education ladder; if you (let’s say) start working after high-school you might be left with the impression that there are universally known truths.

    • Jim Luther says:

      It would be helpful if we, ourselves, could get over the delusion that if these people were just presented with the facts, they would understand. This is a group that, following 170 years of evidence, does not accept evolution. That Earth was created 6,000 ago when man and dinosaur co-existed. That the US healthcare system is the best in the world. That our foreign wars are making us safer. That widespread gun ownership makes them individually safer. That rejection of science and education are keys to success.

      And that all our problems can be solved by dismantling the federal government.

    • Chris Perkins says:

      I don’t deal with a lot of MAGA folk, but those with whom I do definitely don’t believe the stolen election lies. But they will repeat them and pretend to. It’s like a loyalty test, or perhaps a secret handshake.

      • fatvegan000 says:

        My family totally believes it. They believe all of it, even though a couple of them have advanced degrees.

        We were having dinner at a restaurant in July when and I saw my BIL look up from his phone and whisper to my sister: “They shot him!” To them it was a given that the Democrats were behind the assassination attempt.

        And my mom still firmly believes the FBI was behind Jan 6 and that Trump loves America.

        For 25 years they’ve all suckled eagerly from the teats of O-Reilly, Beck, Hannity, Carlson, and now Waters.

        The worst thing is that once they realized I wasn’t on their wavelength, they didn’t believe anything I said any more, no matter the subject or my expertise they accepted in the past.

    • sfvalues says:

      When I think about people I know that are Trump supporters and election deniers I keep mulling over this passage from The Origins of Totalitarianism. It helps explain why arguing facts with them doesn’t work. They know the truth but take a cynical satisfaction in the lie.

      “In an ever-changing, incomprehensible world the masses had reached the point where they would, at the same time, believe everything and nothing, think that everything was possible and that nothing was true. … Mass propaganda discovered that its audience was ready at all times to believe the worst, no matter how absurd, and did not particularly object to being deceived because it held every statement to be a lie anyhow. The totalitarian mass leaders based their propaganda on the correct psychological assumption that, under such conditions, one could make people believe the most fantastic statements one day, and trust that if the next day they were given irrefutable proof of their falsehood, they would take refuge in cynicism; instead of deserting the leaders who had lied to them, they would protest that they had known all along that the statement was a lie and would admire the leaders for their superior tactical cleverness.”
      ― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism

      • SteveBev says:

        And these 2
        “Before mass leaders seize the power to fit reality to their lies, their propaganda is marked by its extreme contempt for facts as such, for in their opinion fact depends entirely on the power of man who can fabricate it.”

        “The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction (i.e., the reality of experience) and the distinction between true and false (i.e., the standards of thought) no longer exist.“

      • earlofhuntingdon says:

        Very accurate assessment. Interestingly, the techniques of mass propaganda used in the 1920s and 1930s were developed on Madison Avenue. They were used to sell stuff to Americans that they didn’t need, and to persuade them to support entering and fighting in the First World War.

        Goebbels had much to work with, just as Hitler riffed off of Henry Ford’s rabid antisemitism.

    • Discontinued Barbie says:

      Have you listened to any of Dr. Bandy Lee’s interviews? She spells this out in a couple interviews on Democracy Now.

      Here is the link to some of her interviews.
      https://www.democracynow.org/appearances/bandy_lee

      What I found the most compelling was her concern over why people are so susceptible to Trump’s social contagion.

      It’s like a person in a very toxic relationship. Yes, the abuser is bad, but why is the victim unhealthy enough to stay? Why was the victim unhealthy to begin with? Trump is only the symptom for a much larger problem. Trump going away will not solve the underlying mental health issues of our populous.

  2. harpie says:

    Marcy [from the Update]: Simona met with Andrii Derkach, the Russian spy who cultivated Rudy Giuliani, earlier this year and did a big roll-out of the efforts to return to Hunter Biden disinformation.

    It’s interesting that this is happening tomorrow:
    Broadcast premier Maddow’s documentary “From Russia with Lev” https://www.msnbc.com/lev

    […] Lev reveals the ham-handed workings of the furtive campaign to dredge up false but damaging allegations against then-candidate Joe Biden. […]

    Evidently, during the film, Parnas meets with and apologizes to Hunter Biden.

    • Barringer says:

      Rachel appeared on Colbert Thursday night and they showed a clip from the documentary with Parnas revealing to Hunter that the FBI provided dirt to John Solomon.

      • zscoreUSA says:

        About Hunter and Lev’s conversation that the FBI provided Hunter’s bank records to Solomon. Is that an accurate conclusion based on the evidence that they were looking at?

        Here’s a 3/22/24 tweet from Lev where he posted that 3/19/19 email from Solomon to Lev, Toensing, and DiGenova:
        https://archive.is/mhWAJ

        Text from the email:

        Re: Tell PG Lutsenko to get on a plane and come to DC….

        I just got all 261 pages of bank records that the FBI gathered showing transfers from Burisma Holdings to a JP Morgan account in NYC (via Cyprus) and then in Hunter Biden’s and Devon Archer’s personal accounts. There’s at least $3.2 million that came from Burisma into US between April 2014 and August 2016.

        One of the recipients looks to be a retirement account called Biden LLC. There are also payments for an $85,000 watch and a $125,000 antique car.

        Source says it is evidence of classic looting.

        J

        My emphasis.

        So, “FBI gathered” is passive, and “Source says” doesn’t specify FBI.

        Who would have evidence that the “FBI gathered”?
        FBI
        USA (right?)
        DOJ Tax (?)
        IRS-CI (?)
        Anyone else?

        Are those all possible culprits to be Solomon’s source? Was Hunter’s analysis correct that the FBI gave the records to Solomon? Is MSNBC journalistically responsible for fact checking that statement?

        It’s a narrative that is going to go around on social media, but is it correct?

        • zscoreUSA says:

          Also, would the NSC have access to those FBI records? Any characters within the White House like Kash Patel, Michael Ellis, or Ezra Cohen-Watnik? Would the NSC have access to an FBI counterintelligence investigation? Such as the one into Hunter active at least before Hunter left LA for the East coast in October 2018. And would such FBI counterintelligence investigation get access to the “FBI gathered” banking records?

          Circumstantial data points:
          1) The White House Obamagate hand off to Devin Nunes from the Uber ride
          2) The shenanigans by Ellis to misclassify the phone call records in the part of the impeachment scandal that we know about
          3) The role Patel played in the known impeachment scandal, even believed by Trump to be in charge of Ukraine matters at NSC
          4) Nunes and his aide Derek Harvey were part of the BLT Prime Team operation
          5) Lev began WhatsApp comms with Harvey 2/4/19, and throughout March was involved with coordinating interviews with Ukrainians and getting Ukrainian documents, similar topic to the above March 2019 email from Solomon to coordinate with Lutsenko

          Someone here described the origins of the IRS investigation into Hunter Biden, which stemmed from the sex worker who did work for a UK amateur porn site not paying US taxes, as akin to finding a needle In a haystack. If there were close eyes on the counterintelligence investigation, would that make it easier to find a needle in a haystack?

    • zscoreUSA says:

      Great documentary. Which is airing right now on MSNBC.

      Though it did not address Lev’s 2023 claims about first learning of Hunter’s laptop from Lutsenko in March 2019. Nor his 2023 claim of a quid pro quote with Firtash in exchange for Hunter’s data, which fell apart due to Lev’s arrest at Dulles on October 9, 2019.

      So, for people interested in following the laptop narrative, there was much left out. But great documenting the impeachment scandal as we knew it back in 2020.

      The scene with Lev apologizing to Hunter is very emotional, and a reminder that people involved in scandals are still people. Lev appeared very remorseful.

      Being a small world, I was also able to get a good shot during the Q&A of Lev looking directly at Hunter sitting in audience at the documentary screening. And to shake Hunter’s hand. Whatever happens next with sentencing, I find it inspiring to see people overcoming loss and difficult situations.

      • zscoreUSA says:

        One more comment, for the sake of documentation.

        After the From Russia With Lev documentary completed on MSNBC last night, after my comment, Lev and Svetlana were interviewed by Ali Velshi.

        I had been bummed that the film didn’t even bring up the laptop, or report on attempts to fact check Lev’s claims about Lutsenko w Hunter’s data or the Firtash quid pro quo. Now I see it more as a red flag that there’s more to the story underneath the surface.

        To Velshi, Lev rattled off items not discussed in the film, that went unchecked. He said Archer was being handled by Russia, Vogel had a huge role in the operation with Rudy (probably true lol), brings up the FSB-Kazahk laptop Russia stole (without telling the audience that would be 2014 so unrelated to the Mac Isaac laptop). So clearly Lev wants to talk about the laptop.

        After his arrest in 2019, Lev didn’t mention Lutsenko & Firtash connections to the laptop when he cooperated with Congress, or in 2020 with the award winning interview with Rachel or when the NY Post reported in October. He brought that up in 2023, without providing evidence. Also, the 2014 laptop he keeps giving the audience reason to suspect was the Mac Isaac laptop.

        Rachel bragged that Lev handed over unfettered access to all of his data in order to fact check. She has a history of reporting on Firtash and energy and Ukraine and Russia. It’s uncharacteristic to not bring up to connect to Lev’s arrest on the way to get Hunter’s data from Firtash.

        Rachel made a point to refer to Lev as a “Hustler”, in a cheeky way, which is how the doc refers to him. Did Lev just hustle MSNBC and director Billy Corben? did MSNBC hustle a narrative to the public by intentionally leaving out the full story?

        And I love MSNBC, which I get news from on a daily basis. Rachel is my favorite, I’m a huge fan. I love her reporting.

        I welcome any fact checking on my comments and whether I am overly critical of MSNBC falling short here in it’s journalism.

        • zscoreUSA says:

          Here’s a perfect case-in-point demonstrating people taking Lev’s comments about the 2014 laptop and wrongly inferring it to be the Mac Isaac laptop.

          Here’s a tweet by a very popular left wing Podcaster (who I listen to daily) qt an anonymous account making that false inference. This tweet has 180k views as of right now and can be found by scrolling Lev’s timeline because he retweeted.

          Link: https://archive.is/iJP0h

          Here is the conversation the Podcaster qt:

          [anonymous liberal 1 reply to Maddow Blog]:
          Wow! Lev just said on Velshi that Russia stole Hunters laptop, w/help from Devon Archer! We know they added lies and then turned over to GOP. Lev has the receipts!! [blue heart, US flag, Ukraine flag emojis] [222k views]

          [anonymous liberal 2 reply]:
          This is why I never believed any of the bullshit about Hunter’s laptop. That laptop was touched by more people than the turnstiles on the New York subway.

          [anonymous 1 reply]:
          I didn’t either. I found the details of Archer working w/Russians to set up the act of stealing the laptop interesting. Plus it proves repair shop was working w/Russians or GOP too.

          They even say “Lev has the receipts!!”

          Except.. where are the receipts? Lev has not provided these receipts and the documentary didn’t even acknowledge the laptop, nor Lev’s claims about it. Rachel says she had access to everything, and as an MSNBC employee, everything had to be approved by MSNBC.

          This is a perfect example of false narratives spreading as a result of Maddow and MSNBC’s journalism. I could not have scripted a better example to support my point.

  3. Sussex Trafalgar says:

    Superb post/piece on an extremely important subject that is highly relevant in today’s propaganda and disinformation filled media business system.

  4. grizebard says:

    There seems to be different threads at play all at once. One being the Apartheid South Africa quad of Musk, Thiel et al. What Russia seems to have done is to astutely recognise all of these existing RW and loony LW societal fissures and busily weave them all together, the sum being greater (in effect) than the parts.

    What people seem to overlook is that this orchestra of hate is more than just a cheap way of garnering support among the dissatisfied; ultimately it always has to find an outlet, somewhere, somehow. With grim consequences. As history too readily demonstrates.

  5. synergies says:

    IMO the psychological simplicity of the con is what is unfathomable. TFG talks like he’s talking to 3 year olds, and low intelligence to supposedly higher intelligence (think Musk) are in effect destroyed in their acceptance as adults wallowing in their 3 year old bad mentalities fix. Note just after the terrible 2’s. How hard is this to figure out that their aren’t professionals with a saving counter?
    I would imagine TFG set up subliminal word association in his “family” familiarity show “The Apprentice?”
    Nauseating is Elon Musk is a mamas boy who is so jealous of the attention TFG gets that he’s so, latched on to TFG that weirdly he’s beginning to look just like him with that pasty, pimple pocked marked, make up made over face. It’s really weird! The new Elon now has more make up. He’s learning don’t cha know. Hey Elon start a reality show & get off the soap box!
    More scary than TFG is the power Elon is in control of & the possibility of he & TFG’s coming meltdown and the hopefully jailing of TFG & his cronies. How will Elon get his face on, in the front page news? MAAAMAAA! We are in absurd oligarchs time.

    • Sussex Trafalgar says:

      We are in organized crime times.

      Useful idiots like Trump and Musk are essential to the success of Putin’s organized crime syndicate’s success in the US.

      It is public knowledge that Trump was targeted for recruitment by the Russian Intelligence Systems in the 1980s. Trump is a beard for Putin.

      I believe Musk was also targeted for recruitment by Putin and to this day I believe Putin and some of his oligarchs invested in PayPal, Tesla, Space X and Musk’s purchase of Twitter.

      Musk might be the quintessential example of a useful idiot.

      • grizebard says:

        Useful, certainly, but not an idiot. At least not in the sense that he is rudderless. I believe he has the intention, along with others, of rebirthing apartheid South Africa in some white supremacist form in the US. His evident alliance with Russia is simply a ‘marriage of convenience’ from which both hope, each in their own way, to prosper. Similarly with other such anti-democratic cabals in the US and elsewhere.

        (The Russians surely know this, and while they happily underwrite the dreck, it also suits their propaganda to label the West as owning it. In that way they both get to keep their cake and eat it!)

    • Max404Droid says:

      They already have. It’s “Idiocracy” written and directed by Mike Judge, who also brought us Beavis & Butthead.

    • ExRacerX says:

      The viewpoint and content of such a film would largely depend upon who wins the Presidential election. Will it document a near-miss for democracy or look back fawningly on how TFG’s (The Freedom Guardian’s) regime began?

      They don’t call it history (“his story”) for nothing…

  6. klynn says:

    I need help understanding something.

    Why is Musk able to be on X as an owner? He makes comments that influence the stock market and have appeared as efforts to manipulate the market for his own gain. I get that the SEC has to face a higher burden of proof on charges of market manipulation. I get the freedom of speech aspect. I’m just a bit confounded there is no barrier to his using his own platform. Same goes for other tech and politician related owners of other platforms. The ability to manipulate politics, the market, geopolitical events and hate campaigns with little to no accountability seems grotesque and an affront for many other freedoms and rights.

    It’s also a type communication warfare in public spaces, without disguise.

    • JanAnderson says:

      Yes. How is it any different from Barnum and Bailey?
      The question is – Why does anyone believe it is any different, in 2024?
      Folks 100 years ago had more sense. They enjoyed the circus anyway. It’s not about fun now is it?

  7. Savage Librarian says:

    Viral worked effectively even before the internet. Maybe not as quickly but still achieving desired results…through the grapevine. Early in my public library career, an administrator confided in me who the particularly useful people were. The people who would bring and disperse information.

    It was a very transactional outlook and not at all how I worked. It really gave me pause. I certainly thought sharing information was usually a good thing, but I knew that the people who were being used in this way had ethical issues and a lack of credibility. I felt like I was learning more about the person who was telling me this, than about what I would ever do.

    And, sure enough, the person was eventually encouraged to take an early retirement. It was not until years later that I realized, even in retirement, they took an active interest in spreading disinformation. In fact, it contributed significantly to the issues I later encountered with city administrators about policy regarding some of the behavior of white supremacist militia members.

    This person was an authoritarian who then worked with other authoritarians in the city administration to take vindictive action against me after I challenged a policy that was eventually rescinded because of action I took. The person lived in a home where someone routinely used the N word. Had this person not been in the picture, things may have happened differently.

    Ironically, I chose my profession because I believed libraries were one of the cornerstones of democracy. I believed I could help people and make a difference. But I learned the hard way that there are people who believe they stand above the principles of democracy. Musk and Trump are two more very clear examples. But, as we know now, there are many more.

    Still, in the end, in my particular situation democracy prevailed. If each of us who supports democracy does our part to vote, we will have the opportunity to try to take another step forward to a more perfect union.

    • JanAnderson says:

      12. Make eye contact and small talk. This is not just polite. It is part of being a citizen and a responsible member of society. It is also a way to stay in touch with your surroundings, break down social barriers, and understand whom you should and should not trust. If we enter a culture of denunciation, you will want to know the psychological landscape of your daily life.

      Timothy Snyder’s Twenty Lessons…

  8. Benji-am-Groot says:

    “The thing about these networks of right wing influencers is they offer a cascade effect. You pay off or persuade one or six useful idiots and the entire network becomes your useful idiot.’

    This. A thousand time this. And you just described the GQP.

    And that is what concerns me about this upcoming election – someone here mentioned that The Dotard is just the tip of the spear, entirely correct. As stated numerous times I am not voting for a person, rather a set of policies and an agenda that preserves most of the way of life I have come to cherish.

    I don’t give two tugs of a dead dogs cock (h/t Spider Jerusalem) about The Felon Guy – he is Zaphod Beeblebrox incarnate – the ultimate useful idiot. My nightmares concern folks behind the scenes like Russ Vought, Kash Patel, Cleta Mitchell, Jeffery Clark and a host of lesser useful idiot GQP suck-ups that wink-wink-nudge-nudge the threat as ‘it’s just bluster and hoopla’. And are ready to be in a position to make the drastic changes that will forever unmake this country as we know it. For what? So a small cadre of billionaires can recreate a modern day feudal system?

    “networks of right wing influencers’? To say the least – pushing the christo-fascist, misogynistic, destroy democracy as we know it via useful idiots ‘influencers’ they have a lot of lower level low intelligence MAGAts thinking this is a funny thing to do.

    Until the leopard eats their face?

  9. Trypeded says:

    The Republican shock candidate for vice president made the following astonishing threat in connection with Musk, (the displayed sub headline is gobsmacking too)

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/jd-vance-elon-musk-x-twitter-donald-trump-b2614525.html

    JD Vance says US could drop support for NATO if Europe tries to regulate Elon Musk’s platforms
    Republican vice presidential nominee says ‘Germans and other nations’ – not Russia – would ‘have to fund Ukraine’s reconstruction’

    ——-(Rayne, I sorta figured it out. How to add a quote – Didn’t want you to have to edit again :)

    • Just Some Guy says:

      What an amazing and absolute jackass Vance is. Nobody is quitting NATO over Elon Musk, get real. Not even TFG could come up with such a lame excuse.

      Ps. Earth to JD: The EU already does regulate X, just like every other website!

    • earlofhuntingdon says:

      Is JD Vance promising what his administration would do: invoke trade restrictions in response to a foreign govt applying its criminal law to an American corporation? Or is he interfering in US-foreign govt relations?

      Either way, he’s extending his arrogance and violence abroad, as well as at home. He has Donald Trump’s bent insides, but with a brain, and even more arrogance and ambition.

      Every US corporation invokes the mantra that it complies with all applicable laws in the jurisdictions in which it does business. Vance’s targeted protectionism is as violent as what he proposes to do with it.

    • earlofhuntingdon says:

      That Independent article is LOL. JD, who wrote a semiautiobiography about growing up in cultural backwoods poverty, derisively describes his lack of interest in walking into some backwoods country in Europe, with the added false humility that he doesn’t want to tell them how to live or what their priorities should be.

      “I’m not going to go to some backwoods country and tell them how to live their lives,” Vance added. “But European countries should theoretically share American values, especially about some very basic things like free speech.”

      When he talks about European countries sharing US – meaning his – values, I assume he’s talking about Hungary. JD sure knows how to win friends and influence people.

      • Rayne says:

        What a moron. This country was founded on the rejection of Britain’s values, and its subsequent waves of immigrant forebears likewise rejected their countries of birth.

        It’s like Vance never read any American History in K-12 education.

        • earlofhuntingdon says:

          Yeah, take him out of his bubble, and JD has the street smarts of Kris Kobach. His gift for reading people is on par with Gary Oldman’s character’s ability to read braille in the Book of Eli.

      • Trypeded says:

        I wondered if he didn’t want to give Musk’s freedom to speech to the already conquered, just to countries ripe for conquest.

      • JanAnderson says:

        Why does Vance et al want to carry on with old Europe’s baggage in tow?
        America’s entire point is the exact opposite – you are new fresh free as of 248 years ago.
        A young country in world terms. Why in living fuck are the likes of Vance et al having fever dreams of Hungary, going backwards?

      • JanAnderson says:

        Europe should do this, but Europe should do that.
        These fan boys of Viktor Orban want to eat their cake and have it.
        They love the “clean streets and cheap drinks”.
        Simpletons.

  10. newbroom says:

    Is there no law enforcing civil communication? When do these false accusations become the equivalency of incitement? (yelling FIRE, in a crowded theater)

  11. Sue Romano says:

    I was having lunch with friends at a fairly low key restaurant near Newport, RI. In walked 2 women who sat next to us. They had on bright Lily Pulitzer, were on their phones the entire time. Turns out it was Gen Flynn’s sister Barbara and Jack Flynn’s wife. Jack used to work with my husband, so his wife came by to say hello. The Qanon military grade psyop never came up. When I explained to my friends who they were, they were shocked how close they came to RI’s famous treasonous and grifting family.

    [Welcome back to emptywheel. Please use the same username and EMAIL ADDRESS each time you comment so that community members get to know you. You attempted to publish this comment using a different email address, triggering auto-moderation. Future email address mismatches may prevent your comments from clearing moderation. We don’t even ask for a working/valid email address, only that you use the same one each time you comment. /~Rayne]

  12. mospeckx says:

    Kara-Murza interviewed tomorrow morning on the BBC. Be there or be square. It’s amazing that putin let him go. Sat images tell putin is going south fast, and after he’s gone the West can’t afford another screw up like we did back in 90.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3wp87gpdj1o
    Otherwise, forced to agree with you guys. Except for us rocket nerds, everyone I know who went to college hates Elon. He hates red tape and over regs and its poster child FAA Space div, And with them we never get to Mars. But Joe makes a point here that there may be more trouble going the other way.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6WpYaseyW4

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