The Day After
[NB: check the byline, thanks. /~Rayne]
I’m still furious after listening to and reading yesterday’s interview on NPR’s Fresh Air. I’ve already vented about it in the debate post so I’ll spare you a repeat.
But I’ll be candid and disclose that one of the reasons I was so goddamned upset was personal.
You see, yesterday morning when I couldn’t immediately post the SCOTUS decisions, I was caring for a family member who has dementia and Parkinson’s-like symptoms.
We spent the entire day together. I’m sure the people they ran into briefly while we went about errands thought she was fine. They made small purchases, ordered lunch, managed not to lose any personal belongings.
But they didn’t spend enough time with this person to know how damaged they are.
They have a stooped posture and shuffling gait which is common among Parkinson’s patients; they have difficulty with walking distances and have no grip strength. Forget about doing anything like riding a bike because they don’t have the strength or balance for it in spite of going to the gym to work out three days a week. They frequently need to hang onto to doorframes when there is a change in elevation entering a room.
They repeat themselves; I must have heard a variation of the same story four times inside a half hour, and on several occasions yesterday.
They can’t remember new material longer than fifteen minutes.
They have difficulty explaining concepts in which they were once expert.
They lie or confabulate to make up for gaps in their ability to retain new information or express concepts they once knew well.
They sundown, becoming anxious as the afternoon and evening progresses, losing orientation in time and location, becoming agitated when their unease exceeds their ability to hold themselves together. Rather like a toddler in need of a nap they act out.
After getting through dinner and handing this family member off to their regular caregivers, once out of my sight, they melted down.
This person can’t be left alone any longer; they have been struggling with their activities of daily living like remembering to take medications regularly and at the same time each day. Timers on medication bottles no longer work to this end.
There is no way this person could hold a full-time job let alone a part-time one. They can’t focus for long on any task.
This is stable behavior now after they’ve been put on medications for night-time seizures which affected their sleep and an Alzheimer’s medication which hasn’t improved their condition but leveled it off.
Reality Check
So while some folks panic about Joe Biden’s performance during the debate, I want to tell you to get a fucking clue and check in with reality. Biden was likely unwell and fatigued; imagine how well you’d perform under the same conditions, regardless of your age.
The former guy, however, no matter his performance last night…
This guy has had muscle coordination problems for years now, obvious during his term in office.
This guy has had problems walking over changes in elevation.
This guy has had difficulty walking distances, including the 700 yards G7 leaders walked in 2017.
This guy has experienced phonemic aphasia with increasing frequency.
Over the weekend, Donald delivered two speeches that left viewers shocked about his health. It wasn’t just the content of his speeches — the plethora of lies and the fascistic rhetoric — that made headlines: it was his apparent aphasia (or, to be technically accurate, phonemic paraphasias). That is the type of mental confusion that might leave one saying “Venzwhere” instead of “Venezuela” or “wall mongers” instead of “war mongers.”
“Putin has so little respect for Obama that he’s starting to throw around the nuclear word,” Donald said on Saturday night to a silent audience.
The silence likely stemmed from the fact that Obama hasn’t been president for over seven years.
(source: Mary L. Trump, Losing It)
This guy acts out violently when anxious and agitated.
~ ~ ~
I know which of the two candidates at last night’s debate is and has been suffering from cognitive and other neurological impairment, and whom I wouldn’t and couldn’t trust to tackle the nation’s most sensitive matters.
I also know I would not trust the candidate who during his first week in office ordered a ban on Muslims entering the U.S.
I would not trust the candidate who so carelessly and indifferently failed to respond appropriately in advance of and following a hurricane which eventually took thousands of American lives.
I would not trust the candidate who let his son-in-law deny federal COVID aid to blue states.
I would not trust the candidate who refuses to be pinned down on reproductive rights though his appointments to the Supreme Court have now resulted in the mounting loss of maternal and infant lives.
I would not trust the candidate who appointed so many persons who demonstrated bad faith, lousy judgment, and poor ethics during his term in office, and who removed or forced out so many good federal employees.
I cannot trust the candidate who refused to return presidential records and classified documents including national defense information, storing them improperly and even showing them off to unauthorized persons while in his possession.
Nor can I trust the future of this country, its democracy, and its very sovereignty to the candidate who has said he wants to be a dictator on Day One of his term in office, and who has been compromised by hostile foreign governments.
How you who are panicking after the debate have forgotten all this is beyond me. Has COVID sapped our nation’s collective ability to recall what happened during Trump’s term in office? Did you actually fall for the seasoned con man’s ability to gain your confidence once again because he managed to hold it together for a single carefully-managed appearance on stage?
Save your fucking panic and get to work because for some of us this is personal — our lives depend on it.
God bless you, Rayne, for the unconditional love you demonstrate to your family member with your loving attention. I’m sure they appreciate it more than you know. Both my mother and my beautiful older sister died from the complications of Alzheimers. My sister was only 61 years old. I’m still sitting here at 5:00 a.m.. trying to process the debate last night. It was a catastrophe for Biden. While I fully recognize your points above, we shouldn’t be running a candidate whose main selling point is he isn’t as demented as the other guy. Biden showed confusion, inability to finish a thought, etc. that made me question whether he can even make it through this term, let alone another four years. The Democratic convention is still ahead – we can nominate a better candidate. At least one who is not going to need to be in the memory care unit in a year. Biden cannot and should not be the Democratic nominee in 2024!
I’m concerned about Biden’s presentation last night, but drop the hyperbole. Biden isn’t demented at all. He has many strengths, including his knowledge, many of his policies, his choices for cabinet posts and judicial nominees, and his relationships with allies. The bigger problem is that our journalists do such a terrible job covering Trump, who is a sociopath, a malignant narcissist, a shameless and pathological liar, an autocrat-wannabe and more. And no, we can’t nominate a better candidate than Biden, not least because there would be a lot of infighting to determine who the candidate would be.
The man is 80 and had a cold. Are you at your best when you have a cold?
Re: “ I’m still sitting here at 5:00 a.m.. trying to process the debate last night. It was a catastrophe for Biden.“
IMO, the only ‘wild card’ in expectations for last night’s Gish galloping was the moderator’s preparedness and reaction to it.
The wild card, the CNN moderators and quite a few commenters here were played.
I’m not certain it was that bad. Usually incumbents get best bad the first round and it looked more like Biden fought to at best a bloody draw
Psychologists John Gartner and Harry Segal have been calling out Trump’s malignant narcissism and early onset of dementia in terms similar to those you’ve described for a couple of months now on their weekly “Shrinking Trump” podcast.
Thanks Phillatius for directing us to that podcast “Shrinking Trump.”
One “tell” about the onset of dementia that Gartner & Segal point to is the way trump “arcs” his right leg as he walks. They showed clips of trump from a distance demonstrating the peculiar “arc” leg movement. They said this symptom is one way professionals evaluate the onset of dementia in their patients.
Thanks for pointing to that podcast. Here’s the link at Apple Podcasts for anyone interested in listening.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/shrinking-trump/id1745797271
I wasn’t able to watch the debate but did read the comments on the prior post as well as descriptions elsewhere, so my take is filtered through others’ opinions. I’d argue that anyone panicking about Biden’s performance is extremely unlikely to ever vote for Trump. I do agree that panic is useless unless it motivates people to work on behalf of their preferred candidate/outcome.
On another note, I had 2 grandparents and a parent suffer/die from Alzheimer’s disease, and I find it hard to believe that Biden has advanced dementia given his performance at press events – he responds to questions with unscripted, complex, and nuanced answers.
Rayne, my sympathy to you and your family member. It’s a long, hard road.
Rayne, thank you. THANK YOU! And I know you know that my thanks is extremely personal.
I thought of you multiple times while writing this post, referred to your emails as well. This was the occasion to address Trump’s unfitness.
Rayne, I thank you too.
You’re a tower of strength (and sanity)!
Yes, Rayne…I’m echoing PJ and klynn…much love to you! <3
We have to go after the media hard. Biden did a poor job last night, but Trump was 100 times worse. The media will be talking about democrats questioning whether Biden should step aside when they should be asking why not a single republican is saying Trump needs to go. He just spread lies and narcissism all night long! Why does a political party believe that is completely acceptable and even desirable in their candidate for president? Why won’t the media talk about that. Look who the Republican Party has become. That is the story. Period.
Dotard’s answers were disqualifying. He thinks babies can be aborted AFTER birth. He refused to accept the results of the election. He continued the #ZombieLie about Pelosi refusing 10K members of the National Guard. He was paranoid and racist.
Admittedly, Biden didn’t have a great performance. That said, the opinion of the pundits on CNN afterwards was already baked in. They said nothing of Drumpf’s childish behavior and bizarre facial expressions when Biden was speaking. They did not address the complete failure of the moderates to actually do their job and make Drumpf answer their questions. IMO, this was an even bigger issue than their failure to fact check. Gish galloping is designed to avoid real time fact checking.
The other issue is people have very short memories. A better performance in the September debate will matter more than what happened 10 weeks earlier.
This is Joe Biden today. It hasn’t even been 24 hours:
https://x.com/Acyn/status/1806748370532536705
Is this some kind of record for recoving from a throat issue in human history?
Some sound engineers said it sounded like a deliberate(?) technical issue to them. I did not see these comments but did see more than one comment mentioning it. And citing his strong voice in appearances afterwards.
Rayne, thanks for your comments (as well as everything else you do around here). Many of us have had our own versions of caregiving, and you have my deepest empathy and respect in your situation. I know one of last night’s candidates would be ‘right there with ya,’ as the saying goes, right in your (and all of our) corners, and one would need a diaper change.
My fury is reserved for the failed institution that is CNN, totally and utterly derelict in any journalistic obligation to the American people; and for the incompetents on Biden’s prep team who completely failed to prepare him to hold his own with a raging narcissist. (Mehdi Hasan wrote a whole book about such things; Anat Shenker-Osorio has made a career out of advising on both strategic and on-your-feet communication skills; that Biden’s consultants are getting paid to mis-advise him so badly is an outrage.) The guy whose strategists set him up to look like a candidate for Happydale is the most successful and progressive president I can remember, and I was around for JFK (missed Roosevelt by a few years).
If I was going to send postcards to voters, I’m now going to send BEAUCOUP postcards to voters. The Biden ‘advisers’ and our media whores left a stain last night that the rest of us are going to have to work even harder to clean up. So be it.
Here’s a link to this morning’s post on “Framelab,” the George Lakoff-inspired website, written by LOLGOP. It kind of underscores my feeling: don’t change the candidate, change the g-d advisors and consultants. Do it NOW before they f ck anything else up. https:// http://www.theframelab.org/dont-underestimate-donald-trump/ (I stuck a space after the forward slash, just in case, hope that’s OK.)
My wife (physical therapist) also chose to focus on Biden’s lapses, totally forgetting my mother’s final three years of “living” with Alzheimer’s, or deliberately choosing to ignore Trump’s many many manifestations of frontotemporal dementia that (combined with the inate fascism he generously swaddles in Baron Munchausen-like lies ) CNN and much of the populace instead see as “strong” leadership.
I wanted to vomit. Still do. And if SCOTUS, as I expect, gives out another “one-time-only-George-Bush-exception” for Trump, I may just.
I emphasize the issues of dealing with people of advancing age. Trump is showing the mental and physical problems of advancing age. However his case is far more serious
He shows a range of mental and physical defects that make him unfit for any political office. He is still talking about a cognitive test where the issue is recognizing the difference between an animal and a tree. This is a test used to determine if a person needs assistance in living. So again he is unacceptable.
Obviously Trump has much more serious issues. The debate was like a trump rally. He lies about everything, he doesn’t answer questions, he doesn’t participate in the event. Trump is conatively malignant and his psychopathological state seems contagious. The real question is how he could possibly be elected to any public office in the United States. He lost in 2020 but became president through the flawed electoral college in 2016. He can possibility accomplish this again in 2024.
The Biden administration has done a good job in running the country. However this doesn’t resonate with Trump supporters, the corporate media and many other Americans. Don’t you see what you are up against?
You can’t compare Trump with anyone else. Trump shows signs of serious mental illness. For tens of millions of people in this country, this isn’t a problem. They are lower middle-class people with no job skills that are suitable for the 2020s and beyond. For them, all Trump must do is go through his rally rant. In addition, regardless of his condition, corporate America is ok with him if he cuts taxes for corporations and the wealthy and fails to regulate corporations. That is all he must do.
The issue is how to defeat him in the 2024 election. Do you really think that if the Democratic replaces Biden in 2024, they are doing to defeat Trump? It won’t. The question then becomes can two political parties can serve the needs and represent 330 million people. That is rhetorical. The Democrats have corporate sponsors as well. The problem is ideology. In the final analysis, if the Democrats keep their corporate and wealthy sponsors, they are ok.
This country needs a third political party that represents the ideals and legacy of Franklyn Roosevelt. Why don’t the Democrats talk about another New Deal and a second Bill of Rights for the 21st century?
That is the problem.
Barry Wright wrote, “The issue is how to defeat him in the 2024 election.” This reflects upon another comment later in the thread.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-top-general-secretly-called-china-twice-trump-term-ended-report-2021-09-14/ — ending words
………………..
” The Washington Post reported that Milley was motivated to contact Beijing the second time in part due to a Jan. 8 call with U.S. House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who had asked the general what safeguards were in place to prevent an “unstable president” from launching a nuclear strike.
“He’s crazy. You know he’s crazy,” Pelosi told Milley, the newspaper reported, citing a transcript of the call.
According to the cited call transcript, the general replied, “I agree with you on everything.” ”
………………..
Biden’s administration likely has access to archives of that call. With money to do negative ads, a replay of that phone call might help put a gloss on who Trump is. LBJ did in Goldwater with the nuclear threat ad, and it is one that can be rescripted for today. If not China, could it be Iran this time? But — why not China again at risk, worried.
He’s crazy. You know he’s crazy. — and the media wants a horse race.
Unfortunately General Milley retired and that was a great loss. Nancy Polesi did contact him to ask if a president could use nuclear weapons on his own decision. The General said no.
You don’t have to believe Biden is senile to conclude that last night was catastrophic for his chances to prevail in November. It’s obviously too late to replace him as the candidate, so the Democratic Party is lashed to a sinking ship. It’s not disloyal or defeatist to recognize this as reality. In fact, it’s all the more important to redouble efforts to retain both houses of Congress, because come January, they will likely be the only bulwarks against the Trump autocracy gang. As a Californian, the fight for the House is about the only electoral contest in which I can make a difference, anyway. Time to face reality, as I see it.
It’s really tough to distinguish this kind of talk from rightwing crap which has been pumped at us for years.
Try harder, then. The bad guys are winning, and Congress is our best defense at this point.
Dude. You can just leave and do something constructive.
It’s June. The low information people who will determine the outcome of the election haven’t even begun to tune in, and you’re telling us the presidential race is over while insisting this is NOT defeatism? I have to assume you’re a Trump fan in disguise, but if not please do yourself and your country a favor: get off whatever you’re smoking, grow a spine ASAP, and stop spreading around your very real defeatism. The corporate media will not save us, but we must insist that supposedly informed citizens live up to their most elementary duties to stand up against lies and fascism until the election is over.
Coward. Defeatist. Or propagandist?
Oh, ffs. As the song goes, if you don’t know me by now, you will never ever ever know me.
Want to whistle past the graveyard? Fine, be my guest, but don’t assail my sincerity.
OK. You’re sincere, so I beg you: try overcoming your selfish defeatism and excuse making while there’s still time to do so. All hands on deck!
Re: “ The bad guys are winning”.
It isn’t your “sincerity” being questioned here.
It’s the purpose of your proclamations.
The purpose is to get people focused on flipping the House and saving the Senate. Put your good where it will do the most, and brace for impact.
I get that the MSM is pushing this line, but it’s not what I saw. Trump rarely answered the questions put to him, but simply ranted in dystopian generalities. He did his usual continuous lying schtick, and with no fact-checking, there was no one to call him on it except Biden.
Biden’s answers on the other hand were most often factual, precise, and on point, which tells you that he has a vast storehouse of information in his head which he can call on. He worked with pencil and paper in real time to get his answers straight. Conceded: he didn’t always succeed; and under the pressure of time, he sometimes couldn’t decide which point to focus on.
But what do you want in a politician? Someone who just trumpets bullshit continuously? Or someone who at least knows what he’s talking about? Anyone who thought Trump “won” that debate wasn’t watching what I was watching.
The only thing Biden missed that irked me was when Trump said the world’s dictators respected him and not Biden. Joe missed the obvious come-back: “I don’t want the respect of murderers and gangsters; no President should.”
Maybe explain this, then: https://x.com/Acyn/status/1806748370532536705
Less than 24 hours. I’m SERIOUSLY thinking CNN just put one over on all of us.
P-villain, At this critical point in our democracy, only certain viewpoints within the Democratic establishment are allowed on this site.
You have a history here. You also don’t take direction well from moderators.
You’re also off topic and trying to take P-villain with you. Knock it off.
I agree with every one of your “I would not trust” statements, Rayne. And I imagine that is the very reason so many people are panicking. They see the very real possibility of the man you so accurately describe becoming president again, and it terrifies them. They have been trusting a good and decent, albeit old, man to convince the country that the sick, crazy, narcissist should not ever be near the Oval Office again, and they fear that good and decent man missed a chance to do so last night.
Zirc
Rayne, Please accept my compassionate understanding and virtual support for you and your family member as you traverse each day. My family has very recently endured a Parkinson’s decline and death. My heart goes out to your family member, to you and everyone who cares for them. It is heartbreaking and exhausting to love someone who struggles with these issues. I agree with the sentiments you expressed. Thank you.
Rayne your comments concerning your family member brought to mind a lovely woman with Parkinson’s for whom I briefly was caregiver. She lived with her husband who disparaged every single thing she & screamed at her for spilling her coffee at dinner. Yet she was so perceptive she took one look at me when I came to work after losing my kitten to a speeding truck the night before & asked me what was wrong. She soon began to show signs of dementia. I had reported his behavior to the assisted living staff & after they conferred with family members she was transferred to a protective care environment. She didn’t know me the next time she saw me. That moment of concern for me meant so much to me when she was having such difficulty in her own life.
Regarding the family member, others have said the right things. I’ve lost two people dear to me, luckily neither having cognitive problems, but with other things causing loss of life.. I do sympathize. Regarding the debate, I did not watch. I intend and have always intended to vote as early as allowed in early voting for Biden, and be done. My Congressional District, MN6, has reelected Tom Emmer and before that reelected Michele Bachmann, so there is little community work that would move the needle. For me it is ongoing frustration at how many do not see through Trump’s bluster to see who he really is and has been. Should he win, the international economy is at risk, the planet itself would be at risk, and Biden offers better thinking and better people. To me that is obvious, and it is frustrating to see it not universally recognized. Trump’s fragmented base is a scare show. But added up, he has numbers. Living in Minnesota, I believe the state will go again for Biden, and that the election will hinge on swing states. I vote early, and wait and see. I have no pearls to clutch. One vote, and then see what happens. There are always personal things to cause Angst, and worry over things I cannot shape would only cause more. It is a coping approach.
From The Guardian this morning:
It’s worth reading the complete article “The true losers of this presidential debate were the American people” by Rebecca Solnit which can be found here: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jun/28/debate-losers-american-people
Thank you, Rayne, for all you’ve shared with us and written in your post above.
Curious how the CNN commentary after the “debate” focused almost entirely on Biden. Left unchallenged/not discussed were Trump’s lies, refusal to answer questions, etc. Which one has more import for running America? Which one would you trust with your grandchild?
What I saw of the debate left me speechless. Biden was appropriate by answering Trump’s rhetoric with “you’re a liar”. That was and is the right answer. Trump simply amplified his campaign speeches rather then answering any questions. If he’d had time, we would have witnessed the rambling of his lack of intelligence, empathy and knowlege of the Constitution. The questions asked were not intuitive, just reflecting media talking points expecting Pavlov induced answers.
Folks should reread this: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/milley-defends-calls-china-amid-concerns-trump/story?id=80279037
There was other coverage of the “telling the Chinese we will not go to war in waning Trump days while reassuring Pelosi there are procedures against a rogue nuke launch,” much coverage, but how quickly things like that are forgotten. Gen. Milley and the SoD stepped out of the chain of command, but that action was appreciated.
Also, after that came out, Trump said General Milley should be executed for treason. And no, he wasn’t joking.
Biden is capable; last night he appeared incapable; television is about image. Above all, we can’t kid ourselves how disastrous this debate was for Biden’s image.
Image is NOT substance.
But image and emotion are the factors upon which a good chunk of the electorate will be voting. Is it more realistic to think an historically unpopular candidate, who claims this is the most important election of our lifetimes, would bow out – or to imagine that the American electorate will suddenly shape up and behave in the rational way democrats demand contrary to all historical precedent?
Or maybe the problem is that people don’t give him credit for the legislative victories he has achieved? Maybe, but can we change the entire media ecosystem before November such that they report on more factual, content-oriented material rather than salacious personal crap? Probably not, despite the heroic and admirable efforts of this site (which I promote every chance I get).
The reason why I am in the anybody-but-Biden camp is because I am more hopeful that Democrats will accept the reality of the situation (especially if it is made apparent by performances such as this) and change course, than I am that the media ecosystem or the tendencies of the American electorate will suddenly become other than what they are if we just wish for it hard enough.
We should be up by 5 in the polls – a fresh, energetic candidate without Biden’s poor approval (unfair as we may think it to be) and poor political skills would be riding on the end of Roe, the stupendous incompetence of the Republican congress, and Trump’s unfitness tp a comfortable lead going into the home stretch. The only things standing in the way of that are Biden’s ego and the wagon-circling of those that should be pushing him to step aside.
As long as self-identifying Democratic voters continue to whine about the failure of image while failing simultaneously to demand more of Trump on policy — something more than “I’m going to be a dictator on Day One” — then all they will do continue amplifying the right-wing’s bullshit.
Your anybody-but-Biden stance is parallel to anybody-but-Hillary in 2016. In Michigan it resulted in a record 80K undervote, allowing Trump to win the state by a mere 10K.
Self-identifying Democratic voter sseriously need to get their heads out of their collective ass because they’re helping load that next massive undervote with whining like this. The chance to change the head of the ticket was the primary and it’s done.
I highly recommend reading the column you are commenting upon.
It sure didn’t help that no one at CNN told President Biden where the camera was and how to talk into it. This wasn’t corrected at intermissions and contributed to how confused he appeared.
The debate isn’t the election.
The moderators didn’t turn off Donnie’s mike when he started spewing lies, and they should have.
It’s about 8 months too late to change candidates.
Image is all Trump has, and it’s all fake, like one of those blowy 20′ air dummies that sell used cars.
The media, though, are addicted to spectacle. Trump’s egregious conduct was just Donald being Donald, for which the media has given Trump a pass since 2015.. But, gasp!, Biden displayed signs of physical weakness. I’m more used to that sort of analysis when discussing a pack of wolves.
Odd, he looks fine to me: https://x.com/Acyn/status/1806748370532536705
Thank you, Rayne.
And although this may be of little solace, please know that you are not alone. Though it’s been a few years for me, I shed a few tears reading your apt account of witnessing cognitive and neurological impairment.
In terms of the perfect setting for Gish galloping last night and the surprising number of commenters *here* who, imo, have completely lost perspective:
“ Save your fucking panic and get to work because for some of us this is personal — our lives depend on it.”
~Rayne
This is not a horse race.
“Not the odds, but the stakes”
~Jay Rosen
Professor of Journalism
NYU
Both me and a family member had a bug in I think it was March.
Both of us not on any meds or have any illness etc
It massively messed with our heads severe brain fog, memory recall but we were both able to do daily stuff just felt weird and achy a cold and sore throat and catarrh my blood oxygen went down to 91% theirs was 88% and went to hospital for a day. Neither of us were breathless so we wouldn’t have even realised how low our spo2 was except for the finger clips that we had to check when we had covid the year before.
This time it wasn’t covid, but on the worse day with this bug i literally couldn’t remember names was amusing to the family member until they got it and didn’t recall doing things that I witnessed them do. both of us were fine 2 weeks later. I wonder if he has that type of bug.
Same. There was a cold going around in May that *everyone* in my office had (not Covid) which flattened you for about a week and ruined your voice for three weeks. That was definitely on my mind during the debate — I assure you my impression of Biden’s performance would have been better if I had known he had a cold going in.
It crossed my mind while Biden was in Europe that he was at greater risk of getting a bug which could affect the debate.
It makes no sense to be decrying Trump and at the same time being resigned to his election. (Unless despite one’s protestations on a blog you really don’t care.) The fact of Biden being “off his game” last night and the not surprising intentional malpractice of most of the Fourth Estate should not be a reason to give up but to be a spur to intensify our efforts to defeat Trump. That must include calling out the MSM. Four months is a long time. Don’t give up.
Rayne, thank you for all that you do. My father, struggling with the onset of Parkinson’s -like symptoms and early dementia chose to take his own life, in order to “save us” from the difficulty of caring for him. Not a day goes by that I don’t wish he had chosen differently.
I am mostly disappointed because my hope for the debate was that it would shut up the Democratic worriers. The candidates are the candidates, the choices are the choices, and Trump is unfit and a danger to us all.
I feel like if we had been told going in that he had a cold it might have made a difference, but as I posted last night, I had trouble physically understanding what he was saying, and there is no universe where that is a good thing. I look at these debates as a performative face off, and the result is that Biden looks vulnerable. That’s still a long way from being defeated, but it would have been way better if he had come away projecting strength rather than vulnerability. But it is what it is, so now he just has to fight the next battle in the campaign.
Personally, I think the major error here was allowing any part of the US mainstream media to run Presidentials debates. CNN, like the rest of the MSM, NEEDS a horserace to increase ratings, and if Biden looked too Presidential and like he did at the SOTU, that would definitely decrease the odds of a horserace for a while. So CNN needed two things out of this; to make Biden look old and confused, and to make Trump look less crazy.
I have a strong suspicion watching it that CNN had the volume on Joe’s mic lowered a bit, so he sounded quieter than the bombastic Trump. Even when he was yelling into it, it was noticably lower in volume. They also didn’t tell him where the cameras were, which lead to him starting every question looking around for where he should be looking and creating the illusion of a confused old man.
For Trump, we all know how he would have reacted if the moderators had told him to stay on topic and didn’t let him Gish, so to help him look less crazy, they just let him go. And even then, he said some absolutely crazy things (“We have a dog, the greatest dog ever!” and his obsession with his damned golf score).
Check him out today, less than 24 hours after the debate, and ask yourself why Joe looks and sounds completely different: https://x.com/Acyn/status/1806748370532536705
This nation’s collective memory lasts until the next breathless headline appears. Hopefully, by November everyone will have forgotten about one bad night
on television.
And that might be today; the SCOTUS just gutted Chevron deferense and declared themselves the foremost experts on everything in the United States, handing the courts the sole power to interpret all legislation.
This, a day after they had to fix one of their opinions because Neil Gorsuch mixed up laughing gas with nitrogen oxide.
Seriously, he and his clerks confused NOX and N2O? “Call it what you will,” that’s damned stupid.
Everyone chill and repeat the following mantra: A week is a long time in politics.
Seriously. I have a hard time believing anyone will remember last night by November.
Will time heal all wounds, or wound all heels?
All-purpose hedline: Dems panic
I did not watch the debate but I have been sort of waiting for a chance to relate an episode from political history.
Winston Churchill was prime minister of Great Britain until the age of 80. He retired and was replaced by a younger man who had a perfect background for the first crisis he faced: 20 years in the highest government posts and a Double First from Oxford in Oriental languages (Persian and Arabic).
You could hardly specify a more imposing CV for someone having to deal with Arab politics.
Yet for all that, he made the most disastrous misjudgment in British political foreign policy of the second half of the 20th c.
As many have noticed, once CNN gave Convict-1 the green light to dodge questions and spew his stump speech without any consequences, it became a rally in two-minute bites. I also note that Bash and Tapper kept on follow-up questions with no time to answer them, reinforcing the perception of Biden being ‘slow’. Chris Licht was fired for doing that at the execrable ‘town hall’ so perhaps CNN is continuing its interview to be the MAGA propaganda mouthpiece. Rupert’s not going to like that.
The Ds need to message more but where can they do it on platforms not already co-opted by Sinclair Media and its ilk? The airtime resources are not equal between the parties.
On a more substantial problem, recall that Ohio was going to enforce its ballot inclusion rule for the first time to kick Biden off the ballot. Governor DeWine said he’d call a special session to address that problem (yeah, right) so the DNC said list Biden-Harris on the Presidential line. If BIden drops out that can’t happen because who knows who will be nominated in an open convention which occurs 5 days or so after Ohio’s deadline. I wouldn’t want to throw away Ohio’s EC votes.
Thank you for your post, Rayne. I lost my father to Parkinson’s last year. My mother is starting to struggle with dementia and short-term memory loss. My thoughts are with you and your family.
I do wonder what kind of chemical cocktail Trump may have had before the debate. I think he is a night person (remember how he slept in court) and Biden may be a morning person. Maybe the next debate should take place in the morning and aired later.
The kind of behavior Trump exhibited is often objected to in a courtroom. Being barraged on a witness stand is badgering. It is very disorienting. It is purposely bullying and intimidating. It is meant to put people on the defensive so they lose their train of thought. Trump has had decades of practice doing this.
The referees last night were MIA. Imagine if schools or courtrooms were run like that. Or city halls. Or mental health facilities. Or nursing homes. Why is this tolerated on TV? I think we know.
Thank you Rayne.
I have whip lash and shell shock from the bombastic barrage of bullying bullshit. Typical Trump tactic to fire off words upon words spewing lies after lies. Exhausting! The man is a chi sucker.
No time for a pity party. Time to rally around Biden even with a lack luster performance. He is compassionate wanting to help people. Support to him and the party is vital in order to save democracy.
Refuse to be abused by a bully, an exploiter of humanity who descended the escalator years ago spewing hate. And one has to be taught to hate. Call out the bully, call out the hate, call out the cruelty. Refuse to be abused.
Republicans are loyal to the core to an abuser and blamer who wants to rule as an authoritarian. Fear ruling. Republicans have gone from calling out Trump’s abusive and violent ways on January 6th insurrection, to embracing his abusive actions. They continue to reward abusive behavior. And this from the party of Family Values.
Abuse is not a family value. Bullying is not a family value. Hate is not a family value. Revenge is not a family value.
You have a choice. A democracy helper or an autocrat abuser.
In case you’re wondering, I don’t see the September debate happening, as Convict-1 will find a reason to back out and continuously brag that he ‘won’ this one. CNN did him a solid.
True that.
Won’t he be serving a prison sentence?
Rayne, I want to thank you for all that you did for your family member. I want to express my admiration that you were able to do this post, in the middle of your pain, and help the rest of us remember what is at stake.
I don’t know you except through interactions in emptywheel comment threads, and we might never meet, but I love you.
from People: “According to a Biden-Harris campaign official, the hour that followed the debate marked the president’s best grassroots fundraising hour since he launched his bid for reelection. Overall, the campaign official says, June 27 was Biden’s best day for grassroots funding.”
Stephen Hawking wasn’t much of a speaker. FDR wasn’t much of a walker.
The impressions of one TV appearance will not wreck Biden’s chances, but he must take a firm hand in managing his future debates. He doesn’t need preparation for a debate with that fool, Trump, because Trump has no honest facts about anything he says. Biden just needs to be himself, such as when he grinned and laughed at the more ridiculous things Trump said. That is an image which sticks, even more than the best riposte. And, image is what TV is about. That is how Trump gained a nationwide audience with his silly fake reality show.
So, stop and remember last night: Trump’s angry demeanor, his clown-like smirk when Biden called him out for being a felon and how that changed when Biden brought up Trump’s sleeping with a porn star. Image: mean; very mean. The look of someone who would be capable of ordering a “hit job.” Biden retained his gentle, gentlemanly demeanor throughout.
The decent people in this country will vote for the decent candidate. The rest, victims of TV addiction will vote for what they perceive as a “strong man.” What he says doesn’t matter to them. What matters, is that they perceive Trump as their angry fathers, or angry, abusive husbands whom they had to obey. It’s an addiction for such people.
There is time for Biden to repair his “image” for one night, and remind people what he has done for them. Get the damned advisors out of the way!
What STILL makes me shake my head about Trump is that he’ll lie about things he said and did ON CAMERA. I honestly believe he believes that bullshit his father fed him about reality changing if you believe enough.
Convicted Felon told a lot of lies but the thing that made me yell at the tv was when he said there were more covid deaths under Biden. I blow a gasket whenever a MAGAt says this.
Biden did everything he could to keep us safe. Encouraged vaccines and masks. MAGAs defied him and said “High survival rate! Personal choice! Liberty over safety!” Convicted Felon encouraged them. The leading killer of cops since 2014 has been covid.
But now suddenly they “care” about safety. All their performative outrage over a few Americans murdered by illegal immigrants and 13 dead in Afghanistan. But 1.1 million covid deaths is “high survival rate”.
This is more than I can stomach.
People look at totals, and forget that it’s a much longer period under Biden. (Science and math illiteracy is a real problem. So is propaganda.)
The 13 dead in Afghanistan was a direct result of Convict-1 closing Bagram (forcing everyone through less-secure Kabul) and cutting a deal with the Taliban with a firm date to withdraw. If Biden had delayed even a little there would have been more blood. CENTCOM owns its tactical errors, but they were walled in strategically by the prior administration.
Let’s not forget Trump’s role in freeing thousands(5000, I think)
of Taliban prisoners and inviting their leadership to Camp David for negotiationsuntil that stable genius plan got nixed. When T brought up Afghan. I was wishing Biden would counter with that.
Biden’s response to that was 100% true; Trump’s Covid non-plan was so terrible that no one was going to turn it around in a month. I just wish he’d also mentioned having to fight with the outgoing Trump officials to get the executive handed over (if you remember, they fought tooth and nail to slow down the ability of the Biden Administration to hit the ground running), AND that after he took over and the Covid spike started to slow down, Trump and his minions started with the anti-vaccine bullshit and most of the deaths after that were the people who believed his bullshit…
I’m guessing, though, that the prep team told him to try and avoid making it sound like he’s blaming Trump for everything.
I have been beaten down by summertime colds. Yes, I can imagine suffering one and standing up for an hour and a half against a continually lying verbal bully, and it wouldn’t be pretty.
That being said, the debate was a lost opportunity to make an impression on the average voter, some of whom get their information solely from Fox News. Some of Trump’s lies were repeated over and over again, and never rebutted.
I believe there is more going on than an occasionally cold. No, he does not suffer from dementia, or a debilitating disease like Parkinson’s. But he is clearly in physical decline. His gait and speech are noticeably different from a couple of years ago. It happens to many of us who aren’t suddenly struck dead of heart failure. There is nothing magic about 81 (other than being a perfect square). Both my parents were hearty in their early eighties, but their decline was rapid. Nobody gets out of this life alive.
Have you read or seen anything at all about Biden’s foot problems? Have you read or seen anything at all about Trump’s tardive dyskinesia?
Low information voters, indeed.
Thank you, Rayne, for your excellent description of being a caregiver to someone with Alzheimer’s. My father was primary caregiver for my mother for 10 yrs, and his devoted care and actions taught us all how to rise to that awful occasion, i.e., no matter how many times my mom repeatedly asked the same question, he always answered her as if he were hearing it for the first time: patience and kindness personified.
Re Biden, his people said he had a cold, and he certainly looked and sounded ill. He wasn’t at the top of his game last night but that by no means changes my vote. I hadn’t donated to his campaign previously but I did last night.
It is clear to me that the real meat of this matter is the blatant disrespect we have for our elders in this country. OLD = BAD. Who cares if he’s competent, successful, cares about people, and has a deep base of facts available on instant recall? (“Number 1, 2, 3”) Who cares if the other guy is a Traitor/Rapist/Liar/Convicted Felon whose greatest fantasy is to have sex with his own daughter? Biden is OLD and old is BAD. End of.
Dan Buettner, in his work on the Blue Zones, made it clear that the most important factor to living a long and healthy life is not diet and exercise, but social support – being surrounded by family and friends that love and respect you, and appreciate the wisdom you have to share and pass along to them. We do not respect age and wisdom in this country, and warehouse our elders in nursing homes, which are rare in Blue Zones. This is reflected everywhere in our society, including in our humor. “I’m ashamed to admit that I remember when…” “I’m so old I remember when…” “I’m showing my age when I say that…” Over the hill b-day cards, etc.
Old is only acceptable if you don’t LOOK old. Hence the multi-billion-dollar industry focused on that.
FAR better an old, competent, intelligent, good man, than a Traitor/Rapist/Convicted Felon/Pathological Liar/Malignant Narcissist who only cares about himself and has consistently sold out our country to the highest bidder, who kneels to Putin, and who openly plans to end democracy and make himself a dictator. You could fill a book with his faults; Trump is that rare specimen who literally has no redeeming qualities whatsoever. He is one of the most vile creatures to ever walk the face of the planet.
For crying out loud, he was given THREE opportunities to answer the question “What is your plan to lower childcare costs for working-class families?”, and ignored it three times, in order to defend his own person from an attack by Biden. Showing, beyond doubt, that HE is his top priority, and that he couldn’t give a damn about working-class families or their kids.
Dems who show any weakness on this are short-sighted fools.
This isn’t hard folks.
Trump is only 3 years younger than Biden, and is showing plenty of signs of cognitive decline.
He’s also deeply, extremely unfit for any public office. Trump represents the very worst of America, and his base of deplorables will be lining up to vote for him despite his 2 impeachments, half a billion dollars in unpaid civil judgements, 34 felony convictions, and outstanding federal charges for stealing hundreds of highly classified documents when he left office and then repeatedly obstructing the goverment’s efforts to get them back.
Even low-information voters ought to recognize Trump’s unfitness; he has so many disqualifying liabilities that every American has heard at least some of them.
Stephen Hawking wasn’t much of a speaker.
FDR wasn’t much of a walker.
Hitler was an energetic leader.
MAGAs are obsessed with appearances. Style over substance.
Older man with a full time job who’s on call 24 hours a day running the most important and complicated country on earth seems tired.
Older man with no job and who lives in a seaside resort lies constantly and consistently about his record and intentions in bid to run the most important and complicated country on Earth.
Gee, I wonder who’s more fit for he job?
The gift of all this may be that the existential fear of a Trump win in November will motivate an all hands on deck approach to grassroots involvement in support of Biden after all this settles down.
Trump will become even more emboldened to say horrific things because he thinks he won and despite his amazingly good night in not sundowning as he normally does in evening appearances, his performance was a one-off and his word salad and phonemic paraphasia will continue to get worse as we move towards Election Day.
This debate was held much earlier than debates normally are and a lot can happen between now and then as others have pointed out.
What’s really depressing for me is not Biden’s performance, but the collapse of support by pundits and public alike and a bunch of hand wringing after one setback-
That is not the behavior that will save Democracy and it bodes ill no matter who is elected as we will still have the same radical Supreme Court, MAGAat jerks in Congress and red state fuckery to battle against even if Biden wins.
Trumps debate technique was Gish Gallop.
Gish Gallop: When People Try to Win Debates by Using Overwhelming Nonsense
“The Gish gallop is a rhetorical technique that involves overwhelming your opponent with as many arguments as possible, with no regard for the accuracy, validity, or relevance of those arguments.”
https://effectiviology.com/gish-gallop/
Can MSNBC find no commentator but a Republican consultant or former politician. They are, of course, all jumping on Biden. They are lavishly selling, Oh, Trump is just Trump. Ignore that. But did you see Joe drool? FFS. This is fair and balanced?
Something that always gets lost in the shuffle is that Joe Biden has a day job. Donny? He has all day to eat McBurgers and put on makeup.
Kasich in particular really turns my stomach. Smarmy, greasy and slyly undermining Democrats at every turn. Look at his face – gleeful and arrogant – he loves it that he gets away with doing it on a channel most liberals watch.
Even Claire McCaskill is less of a has been than Kasich, an out of work, former investment banker and right wing GOP politician from Ohio. Why MSNBC thinks it needs commentary from a guy with his history is a mystery only its owners could fathom. What he says is as predictable as a party spokesperson, which means MSNBC is positioning its audience, not reporting news.
I’m guessing after the internecine squabble between NBC and MSNBC about the latter’s position on the ideological spectrum that goobers like Kasich are the result.
The media acknowledges Trump’s lies only in the context of saying Joe could have done a better job refuting them. Nice burying of the lede, there.
Ali Vitali is a refreshing exception.
Does Andrea Mitchell work for the GOP or a news organization? If the latter, why? She belongs in the same bucket as Chuck Todd.
The media’s perspective is that chum is in the water and the only possible reaction is a feeding frenzy. FFS.
She might as well work for the GOP. Her sell by date was LONG ago. She has a serious case of aphasia herself.
She is also married to Alan Greenspan, and MSNBC is loathe to lose her contacts in international diplomacy. I think that is the only reason she is still on their air.
I feel some empathy with my friends across the pond.
Over here, as you will know, we have our General Election next week. The favourite to win, Sir Kier Starmer, is a decent guy with unexciting but properly costed policies. He’s not a great communicator, he comes over as a bit detatched and robotic, but is a safe pair of hands who would be an order of magnitude better than the outgoing PM.
Enter stage (far) right one Nigel Farage. He’s failed to win a parliamentary seat 7 times, but he is good – no, brilliant – at carping from the sidelines about how awful everything is. But press him on his actual solutions and he either withers into gibberish, or whines about how unfair it all is.
He’s had one actual chance: he was briefly an MEP (Member of the European Parliament). He was elected onto the fisheries commission, and had a chance to stand up for the UK to ensure we had fair quotas and received a fair price for our catches. Out of 41 meetings he could have attended, do you know how many he bothered to show up for?
One.
Lazy, incompetent, allegedly corrupt, and a sympathiser for Putin and his despotic regime. And yet he’s a brilliant communicator, plays the grievance card like a professional, and receives a massively disproportionate amount of media coverage.
Remind you of anybody?
You forgot to add Farage’s racist, misogynist, and corrupt.
This was corruption that went unexamined:
His racism and misogyny are legendary.
And he hangs with equally sketchy individuals:
I don’t care for Starmer but he’s the least worst option between him and Farage. If only Starmer weren’t so stuck on Brexit I might think the UK would improve if Starmer wins; at best it will stabilize.
I didn’t forget corrupt but, mindful of libel laws on my side of the water, qualified it with “allegedly”. But there is, absolutely, a mountain of evidence pointing that way.
You’re absolutely correct of course that Farage is racist and a misogynist. His campaiging during the Brexit referendum was built on xenophobia, his supporters are among the lowest-IQ knuckledraggers we have, and he’s very much a product of a different era.
Unfortunately he, just like Trump, emboldens the racists and sexists to speak up, on the flimsy premise that “finally, someone not afraid to tell it like it is”.
That photo you posted sums up the grift. He claims to be a man of the people, in touch with the ordinary voter and not part of the elite. And yet here he is, in a gaudy gold-plated foyer in a tacky Trump property, rubbing shoulders with the (allegedly) rich and (occasionally) powerful Donald himself. It’s all a game to him, an ego-boosting popularity contest. Give him a sniff of actual power and there’s… nothing.
Biden is a terrible, terrible performer on the public stage, and even his staunchest defenders must recognise that. But he’s a compassionate and competent President who surrounds himself with expert advisors, and seems to be getting the job done. Ditching him for a showman would be a huge mistake. Ditching him for a showman who has already proven himself to be a disasterous President would be unforgivable.
Biden is not a “terrible performer” in public. He had a bad night. Get real.
Looks fine here: https://x.com/Acyn/status/1806748370532536705
I forgot to address this point: “If only Starmer weren’t so stuck on Brexit I might think the UK would improve if Starmer wins; at best it will stabilize.”
Brexit was, and remains, a self-inflicted disaster. The only time a country has ever imposed sanctions on itself, as someone said. But even as polls shift towards admitting it was wrong, it still remains immensely polarising here, and Starmer is running what’s being dubbed as a “Ming vase” campaign – ie being careful not to shatter his valuable lead by committing to something contraversial.
In a few years time we need to have a grown-up discussion about re-joining the EU or – at the very least – the single market and customs union. I’m roughly half-way between Dover, our most significant cross-Channel port, and London. It used to be trivially easy for me to travel to France on a whim, to stay as long as I liked, and to bring back whatever I want (within the law!). I could, should I so wished, buy a house in Belgium, work in Italy, marry a German, shop in the Netherlands, and export goods to Lithuania. All without barriers. Brexit hasn’t stopped any of that of course, but it’s erected complicated and expensive barriers which have knocked some 4% off our GDP. Stupid own goal.
It’s deeply frustrating that Starmer isn’t more committed to the EU, but regrettably I think it’s the right tactic for THIS election cycle. Win by playing it safe, then begin moving the Overton window leftwards.
Back to your side of the Pond, and Biden’s got a track record to be proud of. He needs to sell that better, and let his achievments do the talking. I hope that your electorate is astute enough to value substance over style – not that Trump has much of either.
Nigel is also fabulously well-financed, much of it from unacknowledged offshore sources.
Andrea Mitchell is complaining that Joe Biden is too old to do his job? LOL. She’s the same age as Trump.
She married a guy 21 years older than herself. Apparently one can be old enough to be a spouse’s father and still do the job (*squick*) but a four year difference is a road too far. *eye roll*
She certainly has no trouble booking conservative media stars and rightwing Republicans to join her feeding frenzy. Her show today is an endless catalogue of them.
Mitchell and Chris Jansing spent the morning tag-teaming to see who could do the most to persuade viewers the Dems must dump Biden. Pathetic.
You can believe four things at the same time: Trump is an existential threat, last night’s performance damaged Biden before millions of previously undecided people, Trump has the upper hand in the immediate future, and we must redouble our efforts to counteract the first three. It’s not defeatist to express that combination.
Comparing a torrent of lies to a stunningly successful Presidency will not move many needles.
“…last night’s performance damaged Biden before roughly one dozen of previously undecided people…”
Fixed that copy for you, David.
Reportedly the CNN debate only drew a viewership of about 47 Million. This is significantly below viewership of the 2020 debates. As many pollsters have said, much of the electorate does not start paying attention until Labor Day and certainly after the party conventions.
The pundits and even the NYT are trying to make more of Biden’s bad night, but i appears much of the United States didn’t notice, and those who actually watched the debates thought that Trump was a disaster too. (The mindless MAGAt’s don’t count – there has to be a left side to the Stanford-Binet IQ distribution).
I doubt seriously Biden lost one vote to Trump last night, but there appears to be a lot of bed-wetting today about an old guy with a sore throat, a bad cold and a lousy microphone.
WRT fact checking, CNN said they weren’t going to do any – fair enough, that is what the rest of the media is for. Jake Tapper and Dana Bash certainly should have told Trump to “answer the effing question” before moving on. The moderators were spineless as usual.
When is someone going to punch this guy in the face (figuratively) and tell him to act like real adult ? After 8 years, I am still waiting.
There’s no question Biden’s been a great president and achieved vastly more than anyone excepted. He and his team will be able to competently run the country for another 4 years.
After last nights performance, I do question if he’s capable of mounting a campaign that will defeat Trump. It’s dumb that being a candidate and being president require such different skills, it’s frustrating that the media refuses to focus on Trump’s decline, it’s stupid that swing voters decide based on the appearance of strength but that’s the world we’re in and it’s been that way for years. The media will not blame Trump for overturning Roe or inciting an insurrection, so we need a Democratic party that can effectively do so. Last night Biden was not up to that task.
“I refuse to join the Democratic vultures on Biden’s shoulder after the debate. No one knows more than me that a rough debate is not the sum total of the person and their record. Morning-after thermonuclear beat downs from my race from the debate and polling geniuses like 538 predicted l’d lose by 2. And what happened? The only seat to flip and won by a historic margin (+5). Chill the fuck out.”
Sen. John Fetterman (D-Pa.)
The gist of the complaints and worries seems to be that “Biden didn’t stop Trump from Gish galloping a torrent of lies, non-sequiturs and falsehoods”. Nothing short of a bullet or a kick to the kneecap can stop that. It’s what Trump does, it’s what he’s been doing at rallies for close to what, 10 years now?
Courts are the place that Trump can’t perform like this, and probably the only place. He still lies to courts though. Lying is such a deeply ingrained habit with him I don’t think there’s anything Biden could do that would bring him up short.
Juries have managed to decide that Trump is lying. We have to count on the voters this November to recognize that, too. That makes me anxious, yes. But it’s far from time to say this is over.
If you don’t want Trump to Gish Gallop complete bullshit, you have two choices:
1) Don’t invite him on.
2) Hire a guy to come out and drill him in the leg with a tire iron a second after the debate starts, and every 5 minutes afterwards, so he never gets up and talks.
MSNBC’s post-debate coverage is smug hyperbole and a relentless feeding frenzy from GOP and right wing perspectives.
Trump’s performance, though, was merely, “uneven.” FFS.
Let’s face it: from a presentation standpoint it was terrible for Biden. That lost train of thought, “we beat Medicare” thing was particularly excruciating.
But . . . a little context. Romney beat Obama handily in their first debate. Obama was much better in the second one, and it was all forgotten. Reagan fumbled a bit against Mondale, raising questions about his age and cognition, but he went on to win in a landslide. And even with Trump, his debate performance against Biden in 2020 – with all the interrupting, insulting, and going over his time limits – should have been disqualifying but wasn’t.
It’s a long time until November, and this is not necessarily a conclusive event.
“You defeat defeatism with confidence.” — Vince Lombardi
I thought Biden’s debate performance was abysmal. I honestly felt he dealt a mortal blow to his campaign by the end of it.
However, as I write this, CNN is broadcasting him speaking at a Raleigh rally. It’s some sort of Jekyll and Hyde thing. He is exuberant, coherent, engaging and everything he was not at the debate. I’m at a loss to explain this, but I hope somehow this morning’s rally Biden can overshadow last night’s debate Biden.
HOW MANY TIMES DO PEOPLE HAVE TO BE TOLD BIDEN WASN’T FEELING WELL LAST NIGHT BEFORE IT SINKS IN
ADDER: link to video of NC campaign rally
The reality of each candidate’s health and competence matters less at this stage than voters’ perception of it. Biden’s objectively terrible performance yesterday (slow reactions, garbled sentences, inability to effectively think on his feet or rebut Trump’s lies with data*) will have damaged his support and the clips will continue to play till November.
Whether he was ill or lacked preparation or any other excuse and can improve or whether that’s wishful thinking will be revealed in future debates but Trump definitely won here by any standard except veracity and how many care about that any more?
This is a serious problem for Team Biden and Team Democracy and appealing to people to take a wider view will not fix it.
* and those black squinty eyes do him no favours
And repeating all that here does what to improve the odds Trump is defeated?
I’m really fed up with this mindless amplification.
It might be worth reminding everyone that in the first Presidential debate in 1984, Reagan was speechless for over 20 minutes. He went on to win in a landslide both popular and electoral. Granted, Biden is not Reagan, but JESUS, some people really need to get a grip.
Leaving Biden’s debate performance out of it, I’d vote for whoever the Dems put on their ticket, but there would be nothing to gain from “switching” candidates—if that were even possible—and they’d be insane to take the incumbent Prez and/or VP off at this point.
Anyone thinking of jumping off the Biden/Harris train should be aware that they’re aiding and abetting Trump, buying into the bullshit horse race media coverage and most likely swallowing Russian disinformation and demoralizatsiya. Democracy is at stake, so do the right thing, for fuck’s sake.
It’s a counterpoint to your “Biden was likely unwell and fatigued” mindless* optimism which is doubtful and will in any case not win votes. Facing the reality of the damage this debate did is necessary and urgent.
This is where we are now, reduced to increasingly untenable and unconvincing denials of Biden’s cognitive deficiencies which don’t necessarily detract from him being a capable and effective president but do make the essential precondition, his election, even less likely when it was already neck and neck according to the polls.
I didn’t repeat it, it’s original and I object to you calling it mindless.
What should be done? If this isn’t a blip, Joe should gracefully retire citing ill health leaving some “Oh gosh me really?” candidate to leap or be pushed to the fore.
Biden will be the nominee. In my state of California, 4 R seats, including one occupied by a freshman, are rated Toss-Up by Cook Political Report. One formerly D vacant seat (Katie Porter) is rated Leans Democrat. Hold the latter and flip 3 of the former and you just might make Hakeem Jeffries Speaker of the House. That’s what I’m now focusing on, particularly since despite the debate Biden will take California, as sure as you’re born.
This was meant to be a reply to “Rayne says:
June 28, 2024 at 6:17 pm” but whether through my incompetence or the recent nesting changes has appeared at the top level.
I watched the “debate” last night presuming it would be absurd, bizarre & dystopian, and it was. I discussed it today with a couple of politically aware friends (Dems) and we all thought CNN did a dis-service (emphasis on diss) to viewers and also to US voters with their lack of meaningful moderation. It was enuf to drive me to drink. (Scotch/rocks)
And then I read some of the recent SC decisions. That was even more depressing. . . and I’m usually pretty optimistic. (although ha ha and and a big lol on the opinion regarding “Nitrous Oxide”)
Since I am still in the WTF stage of assessing these recent events, I’ll just add a really heartfelt Thank You, Rayne!! Your caring nature – expressed though physical, emotional & intellectual efforts is a balm to my soul.
I got the impression that the Trump team prep made “Flood the zone with shit” their primary debate strategy.
I got the impression Joe’s team prepped him for a fairly standard debate with questions, responses on topic and rebuttals.
I don’t believe CNN debate moderators were expecting Trump’s “Firehose of lies”
Nor do I believe the enforced 1 minute response and rebuttal times were anywhere near sufficient to allow a response to such a firehose of lies.
Especially for a man who has struggled with stuttering his entire life.
That’s what I saw from Joe, early along in the debate, struggling to address all the fucking lies TFG spewed in the space of a minute.
And I believe TFG’s team knew that flooding the zone with shit would cause Joe to stumble.
Cold or not, CNN’s debate format should never ever have been agreed to by Joe.
If CNN’s producers and moderators didn’t expect Trump to flood the zone with shit, they’ve been asleep at the wheel for a decade.
Or that was how they were instructed to act. I saw Zero real time fact checking, leaving it entirely up to Biden to rebut the bullshit..
My apologies, I wrote in once years ago and don’t remember what name I used.
For what it’s worth I sent the following email to my Michigan Senators Stabenow and Peters and submitted it for consideration on the Warren Sterling Heights Area Democratic Club Facebook page to support President Biden.
I deliberately didn’t send it to my Congressional Representative John James because he’s a Republican who supports Mr. Trump.
*begin
On Friday June 28th I listened to Michael Steele and Cornell Belcher on Nicolle Wallace’s Deadline White House program on MSNBC excoriate Democrats for abandoning President Biden when he has delivered on so much of the Democratic agenda and priorities during his term.
Mr. Steele and Mr. Belcher said now is the time to rally around President Biden and support him even more fully, like the Republicans keep rallying around Mr. Trump no matter what he says or does.
Mr. Steele and Mr. Belcher are right, I think: President Biden is our guy, he’s not 40 years old anymore but he’s the one who brung us to this dance and he’s still one of the smartest most experienced people in any room.
President Biden is a very experienced successful politician who can be fast on his feet, for example his quick retorts to the Republicans during his State of the Union speech, and as he has effectively demonstrated in public appearances in these days after the debate.
There really isn’t any other option and a brokered convention to replace President Biden on the ticket is easier said than done.
Thank you for considering my opinion.
*end
[Moderator’s note: You commented last as “Margaret” in 2018, however this site’s username standard has changed and your first name wouldn’t work any longer because it’s lacking uniqueness. Stick with this new name going forward, thanks. /~Rayne]
Firstly, a heartfelt thanks to Rayne and all the writers at Emptywheel. Rayne, your strength, perseverance, and intelligence are above the rest.
I have read many of the comments and replies. Like most of you, I am an avid Biden supporter and, I believe, a well-informed participant in our democracy. I will, with no hesitation, vote for Biden.
All that said, Biden is a risk to the presidential election and down-ballot candidates. Biden will need an enthusiastic electorate to win and I cannot see how he can garner that. Do not doubt that Trump will have a voter base that would walk over hot coals to vote for him even though they know he is a felon, liar, cheat, and so much more.
All that said, I would rather take a risk on a different ticket, for example, Whitmer-Warnock or Shapiro-Kelly. Would that be easy to pull off-hell no! Would Newsom do some back-stabbing stuff to position himself for 2028, for sure.
But, I think we stand a better chance at retaining the Senate and winning the House with a different ticket that is younger, vibrant, and capable of non-stop campaigning. Candidates that will go on unfriendly media and win the discussion. The next president will likely put two on the Supreme Court and many more on the District and Appellate courts. It cannot be Trump who gets to appoint these judges.
Biden and his staff should have known that they would be hit with a Gish gallop and have had a response to that onslaught. Either he is not well served by staff or incapable of executing a campaign (very different than executing in the office he holds, but you don’t occupy that office if you cannot campaign).
Again, I will enthusiastically support and work for Biden. I know he is strong, capable, accomplished and more. But, unengaged voters will be a large part of the swing cohort and tell me how they are going to unsee the images of Biden that are now being sent on every form of social media out there.