2024 Presidential Election: First Presidential Debate
[NB: check the byline, thanks. /~Rayne]
Today is 131 days from Election Day 2024; the first presidential debate between President Joe Biden and former POTUS and adjudged business fraudster Donald Trump will be hosted by CNN at the network’s Atlanta GA studios at 9:00 p.m.
Moderators will be Dana Bash and Jake Tapper.
Rules upon which the debate participants have agreed include no use of notes prepared ahead of the debate and microphones muted when the candidates are not speaking during their allotted time to respond.
Based on a coin toss Trump will give the final closing remarks while Biden will take the podium which viewers will see on the righthand side of their screens.
Other networks may carry CNN’s feed, which means you’ll see CNN’s branding no matter which network you choose.
Voters’ perceptions of the debate have already been tampered with by Team Trump:
• Trump and the right-wing media ecosystem have already spread false claims that Biden will be on performance enhancing drugs with Trump using this claim during his campaign rallies.
That’s what this guy, who spent nearly 25% of his first term in office on golf courses and much of it in golf carts:
said about this guy who has a predilection for ice cream and bike riding:
• CNN’s interview of Trump campaign press secretary Karoline Leavitt by Kasie Hunt was intended to seed the idea that CNN’s debate platform was unfair to Trump.
However, Hunt cut Leavitt’s mic when Hunt persisted in attacks on CNN and the assigned moderators Tapper and Bash.
This panel discussion which includes an excerpt of Hunt’s interview with Leavitt is worth watching, even if it’s daytime talk show The View:
Most importantly, The View’s panel could see a complete lack of message from Team Trump.
Which ultimately is the purpose of tonight’s debate: the two candidates should convey their vision of the next four years. How different are those visions? What’s their message to the voters?
This is an open thread. Discuss your perspective of the candidates’ performance and their messages to us.
~ ~ ~
ADDER — 8:55 P.M. —
The other entity which should be watched carefully tonight and immediately following the debate is the goddamned media.
I am so furious with NPR’s Tonya Mosley and NYT’s Shane Goldmacher I could spit nails.
Mosley interviewed Goldmacher for NPR’s Fresh Air today. The last portion of the interview is a perfect example of what’s wrong with media coverage of Biden and Trump.
They expended roughly 785 words on Biden’s age followed by a counter observation of Trump which was roughly 214 words, and those 214 words are only half about Trump:
There are also clips of Donald Trump misspeaking, and you mentioned this earlier, right? He gives long, meandering, hard-to-follow answers. I’ve sat through his rallies and sort of lost track of what he’s talking about for a few minutes at a time. And he is not presenting everything in the most sharp and coherent and cohesive way. That said, voters don’t seem to perceive him in the same way they perceive Joe Biden around the issue of age. And the Biden campaign itself, while that’s been a frustration, that’s not how they’ve attacked Trump either. They’ve attacked Trump on policies – that he snapped after the 2020 election, that his second term would be far more radical than his first term was, that he threatens democracy itself, that he wouldn’t accept the outcome of a future election, that he would be a dictator on day one, which is something that Trump has said about how he would take his approach to the border and some other issues. So the Biden campaign itself has through their actions showed their focus is on what Trump would do should he win election. And I think that the Trump campaign is really focused on who Joe Biden would be and raising questions about the president himself and his capabilities.
OMFG THE PRESIDENCY AGED BIDEN No fucking shit, you two sad sack excuses for journalists. Look at every president — Obama’s hair was grey when he left office and his face had new lines.
OMFG DEMOCRATS ARE WORRIED ABOUT BIDEN No fucking shit, because journalists covering Biden do this egregious lopsided coverage in which they literally blow by the fact Trump has said “that he would be a dictator on day one” as if that’s somehow just a minor inconvenience and not an existential threat to many Americans and U.S. residents.
Journalists like these two twits make Biden tripping over a sandbag equal to or a greater risk than TRUMP WANTS TO BE A DICTATOR ON DAY ONE. What the actual fuck???
The inability to recognize dementia in Trump is also egregiously bad — that meandering speech is a bit of a problem if the military is expecting a cogent order about a crisis, you two stupid dipshits. Trump’s phonemic aphasia has been growing worse since he was in office; he already displayed it then.
And yet the public hasn’t been adequately informed about this likely sign among many that Trump has some form of dementia or Alzheimer’s.
Stuff like this from Cornell University’s Media Office:
Cornell expert says Trump’s frequent phonemic paraphasia ‘are signs of early dementia’
doesn’t garner a fraction of the coverage it needs, because journalists like Mosley and Goldmacher are too busy amplifying rightwing talking points about Biden’s age instead of addressing Trump’s increasing cognitive impairment combined with his desire to BECOME A DICTATOR ON DAY ONE.
Again, this is an open thread. Be sure to discuss what fuckery the media offer about tonight’s debate, using Lakoff’s Truth Sandwich format.
Tittle-tattle
All hat and no cattle
He sidles up in a side saddle
Tit for tat and tittle-tattle
Donald’s reckless prattle battle
Grab a towel or a tissue
He’ll fling some ugly fibber wish poo
Will he get lost in a ‘but her’ issue
Tongue-tied by his gibberish goo
He can’t help his gobbledygook
Even though it hobbles his look
The MAGAt man of donnybrook
Tricky Trump fibs, ‘I’m not a crook.”
We’ll listen to him jibber-jabber
Lucky if he hides some slabber
All gassed-up, the old backstabber
On and on and on he’ll blabber
Dammit. He’s getting away with it too. smh
All spectacle, just like I predicted. Really reminds me of the disturbing encounter I had with a mentally ill woman in front of my house.
I want to see how this new format works with no audience and muting the mic. I sense Trump will continue to talk being his abusive self, then they will have to bring in the lip readers.
Pity that Joe’s voice is so tired, compared to Trump’s.
Trump’s lies are endless. It’s all he’s got. But not providing a way to challenge those real time is a major mistake, because, being lies, Trump delivers them perfectly.
Yes, Trump’s tax cuts were the biggest in US history. So were his deficits. He lies about immigration in every response, but does it forcefully. The difference in manner might be a problem.
He’s not answering the questions either, so this really works out to be a rally in 2-minute increments since there is no fact-checking either. Of course, the MSM is all over the ‘beat Medicare’ stumble (he meant ‘beat Big Pharma’) and the raspy voice, but Biden is President all day and Trump wallows at M-a-L.
Remember how much CNN was in the tank for Trump before, with the notorious ‘town hall’ that eventually cost Chris Licht his job there. CNN apparently wants to follow Faux News’ business model.
Not that I think partisan video editing is The Way, but I’d love to see video excerpts containing only:
– the question the moderators asked Trump
– the part of Trump’s answer that was actually relevant to the moderator’s question
It is beyond pathetic that we are still doing presidential debates in 2024, between two guys, when we can, and should be, comparing our actual experience with both guys as president. Unless Trump convinced you that “I (the president) alone can fix it” in 2016, what matters is their administrations, not what they did, all alone.
When the debate started and I heard Biden’s whispery, breathless voice barely make it through that throat obstruction he often has, my heart sunk right to my toes.
All that prep this week and it sounds like he didn’t listen to those who told him not to just recite a bunch of statistics. Why did he never point out Trump never has any detailed policies? Why didn’t he point out how ridiculous Trump’s claims are that no wars or bad stuff would have happened if he were POTUS? Why didn’t someone tell him to come back with “People could say the same shit about you. Like if Hillary Clinton were POTUS instead of you, COVID would have never happened.” So people could see how stupid and empty Trump’s boasts are.
And why didn’t someone alert him to be careful of how his face looked while Trump was talking? I think he was concentrating, but he looked vacant and kind of hunched – the right is going to have a field day with it.
And he sounded exhausted! I’m in agony right now.
Trump-everything was the greatest in the history of the world under him, everything under biden is the worst in the history of the world.
Biden-barely coherent.
We are doomed.
Thanks a bunch for your usual amplification of rightwing talking points.
You are not helping matters whatsoever.
Are you listening to the same debate? Biden is getting crushed- by lies (and his own incoherence) but still getting crushed
LOL. No, Joe’s not getting “crushed” by Trump’s lies. But he would be more effective is he invested less emotion in dismissing them, and kept supporting details shorter and sweeter.
And dumping your feelings here in hyperbolic terms helps how?
It will depend upon what the MSM goes with, the failure of Convict-1 to actually answer the questions as well as the torrent of lies, or that Biden looked old. Psychopaths can be remarkably coherent when they only have to use a few catch phrases over and over and not be called out for it.
Unfortunately, I’m pretty certain the MSM will zoom in on Biden, who is doing better post-break.
It was a horrible debate. The Biden camp should never have agreed to a debate without fact-checking after each speaker. If Trump refused, it would be a talking point. What did they think was going to happen? That Trump would tell the truth 96% of the time?
And yes, I think from the point of view of the uninformed voter, Biden did get crushed. CNN’s pathetic excuse for a bothsides fact check didn’t help, for those who even bothered to watch it.
That photo of Joe biking – those are *nice* legs!
He’s in better shape than most men 20 years younger.
Dick Van Dyke had a good comment today: “I’ve Got All My Marbles, and I’m Old Enough to Be His Father”.
Sure, Donny, everybody wanted to give states authority over abortion and maternal health.
As usual, the relentlessness of Trump’s lies dulls the senses.
I agree wholeheartedly, ESPECIALLY with
Trump’s lies are completely unhinged – how many times do we have to hear “Biden indicted me” before everyone realizes “that’s not how that works. You were indicted by grand juries. That’s not how ANY OF THIS works”?
Dana Bash’s abortion question about seven states with “no limits” on abortion is bullshit. The issue is how does it work in practice.
I live in a state where people from adjoining states are coming for health care. Cars back into the parking lots at clinics so no one can see their plates. People who drive here call ride services because they are afraid to drive their cars to the clinics. The terror women and their partners feel when they escape states where they reside to get health care is outrageous.
Trump takes lying to an art form. What he has to say about abortion is horrible. Using the fear factor. UGH!
Donny is getting Trump’s goat too much. Biden needs to be more disinterested in pointing out Trump’s lies, because no retort from Joe will phase Trump. He’s hurrying to get too much in and beginning to slur his words.
Trump’s lying responses are escalating in scope. He’s in full snake oil salesman mode.
Trump sure as hell said veterans are suckers and losers. Ask John McCain’s family and half the veterans who attended D-Day celebrations during Trump’s terms.
Biden was letting Trump get his goat, with his too many lies. He needed a few short jabs, not a detailed response that loses many listeners.
MSNBC notwithstanding, Gavin Newsom is not going to be on the Democratic ticket in 2024.
Ugh. Biden completely let Trump get away with saying “everyone”, and saying it several times, was for overturning Roe vs Wade. Complete disaster politically to not point out that that is in fact a lie. All the womens groups, all the religious groups, all the people who believe in an egalitarian society, that believe women should have choice, completely ignored. It’s incredibly disheartening to see Biden not rallying people against that huge lie from Trump tonight.
Biden being irate doesn’t sell well compared to the ease with which Trump lies, and lies BIG.
Trump’s exaggerated superlatives sell well, unless you actually think about what he says. That’s hard to do in real time during a debate.
No terror at all during Trump’s administration? LOL.
Joe said Trump’s statement was malarkey, which it is. That’s normally sufficient. Detailed explanations don’t sell well and make it sound like he’s apologizing.
Las Vegas and Parkland High School, FL beg to differ with Trump.
Biden needs to slow down and keep it simple. Yep malarkey works!!!
Let’s remember Trump said Americans who died in war are “losers and suckers.”
Trump says Joe is a Palestinian, but a bad one. FFS.
Frankly, it’s a disaster. Joe doesn’t seem to have it tonight. The DP is going to be doing some serious soul seaching in the next 48 hours. How can their presumptive nominee get eaten alive by a lying felon on national television? Hopefully Clinton and Obama can prep Joe better if there’s a next time…
Joe didn’t need more prep. He needed to rest his voice, and a little advice about how to deliver what he already knows, and how to refute Trump’s lies with a few short jabs.
Unlike Trump, Joe does have a day job.
Agree. Biden was speaking too quickly and then stumbling over his words. That combined with his weak voice made the opposite intended impression on viewers.
Trump dominated the debate with bombast and lies because this mode of communication is natural to him. Like Putin, Trump lies relentlessly.
The president’s debate preppers failed. When they needed to let Biden be Biden, he appeared uncomfortable and off-balance.
That said I still think Biden will rebound and figure out how to take the Democrats to victory in November.
Off balance? Biden decided to enter a heated debate about golf scores instead of tackling issues that matter to the rest of us.
On Jan. 6th we had a great border, we were respected all over the world, now they think we’re a bunch of stupid people. But Donny didn’t respond to the question about his role in Jan. 6th. He says he offered Pelosi and the mayor of DC 10,000 soldiers, but they turned him down. He says Nancy “took full responsibility” for Jan. 6th. Trump’s nose should be longer than Pinocchio.
If the Supremes would let Judge Chutkan’s case proceed, Americans would know how big those lies are.
Pelosi will have some choice words for Trump tomorrow.
“Sex with a porn star.” Yep, it’s out there.
Jan 6. Go, Joe! I’m holding my breath and have many crossed fingers hoping you’ll land one…
Peaceful Jan. 6’ers are innocent. It’s a shame Biden ruined their lives, But Democrats destroyed evidence that show that. Wow. Trump’s whoppers are bigger than ever.
My retribution is going to be success. Sure, like Trump sneakers, steaks, wine, charity, university, golf courses. I did nothing wrong.
Despite the scale of his lies, poor Donny’s body language is defensive as hell. He didn’t have sex with a porn star. And Joe Biden’s DoJ is responsible for Alvin Bragg’s prosecution. FFS. And I’m taking in hundreds of millions of dollars in donations coming in.
Seems like a bullshit question from Tapper to Biden: Are Americans who will vote for Trump destroying democracy? Joe: yes.
Joe’s is the worst president in American history. And Charlottesville reporting was a lie, a nonsense story.
Joe, getting mad at Trump plays into his strength. Dismiss his lies with less emotional investment, if you can.
It is easy to debate when no one is calling you out on your lies. Trump is so good at lying. He has no need to memorize facts or understand anything. All he needs to do is sound like he knows what he is talking about and a large segment of the American public is happy to go along with it.
Trump is good at faking it. It’s all he’s done for more than half a century. Joe might be more effective, if he were less appalled at Trump’s lies and simply called them outrageous, with disdainful dismissal.
Everything for Donny is immigration. He’s all lying bullet points, but he delivers them well.
It was the ‘perfect’ format for Gish galloping.
At this point Biden should just say, every thing that man is saying is a lie. I don’t have time to refute them all. Just know that everything he says with apparent conviction is a lie. He lies like he breathes. He is only interested in himself and he will tell voters whatever he thinks they want to hear in order to get elected so he can enrich himself and his cronies. He lied when he said he didn’t screw a porn star and he is lying when he tells you he isn’t going to screw you too.
Gosh, is Tim Scott in the lead to be VP?
Yep.
I’d be surprised.
Trump mentioning Tim Scott in that moment was his version of “I’ve got a black friend!”, imho.
No way. Scott can’t deliver enough black votes (they see him for the stomach-turning bootlicker he is) to get Trump to be ok with standing next to a black guy for five years. And Scott has no money. It’s going to be Burgum.
WTF does insulin have to do with taking steps to ameliorate the climate crisis?
Oh, it’s JB who’s destroying Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid? But it’s the GOP that wants to end them, to enable Wall Street to profit more.
Trump has never seen a politician lie like Joe Biden? But, quick, switch to immigrants living in luxury hotels.
I’ve never seen so much hatred in this country before, says Trump. Yep, wonder who instigated that, Donny.
Yes, and one has to be taught to hate.
Unwatchable. Time to panic, folks.
Neither moderator tried to keep answers relevant to the question asked.
PolitiFact Truth-O-Meter will not have enough “Pants On Fire” icons for Trump. Crazy talk.
The worst part is Jake Tapper letting Trump rattle on without coming close to answering the question he was asked and then just saying Thank you as if he has actually answered the question
Trump’s bragging about firing people now. Shades of the Apprentice.
We’re wasting time in this debate. We shouldn’t be here. Yes, Donny, you are a waste of time.
Trump claims rating poll rates him the best. Let’s ask Michael Beschloss about that.
I took two cognitive tests. Aced them both. Won two club championships. Whew. Try cycling from the front door of the White House to the front gate, Donny. And try not to bring up Ronny Jackson.
Biden: My handicap is six. Happy to play golf with you if you carry your bag.
Trump: Let’s not behave like children,
Trump: I’ve made the strongest statement against violence Evuh!
OMG!!!!! Trump thinks his ability to hit a golf ball means he is mentally fit.
Mr. Negative and Mr. Cognitive cheats at golf. Fear, fear, fear and more fear. Be afraid very afraid only I can save you. Ugh!
I don’t think I’ve ever seen such a low-effort debate moderation. Bash and Tapper are like token collectors in the subway. Take the money, dish out a token. God forbid the imperatives of actual journalism should pass through their empty heads. However this plays out between the two candidates, the non-performance and lack of professionalism of ANY kind on the part of CNN is (or ought to be) a huge scandal.
The new spelling of CNN is ‘TASS’ or ‘Pravda’.
Joe’s ego has made him overstay his welcome. And what an idiotic debate format..
You’re watching Trump lie to Biden and the public and you have a problem with Joe’s ego? LOL.
CNN has become a national shame.
Donny: I wasn’t going to run until I saw such a bad job Joe’s doing.
Reality check: Donny Trump filed paperwork to run again within a month after leaving office in 2021.
He is a whiner, complainer, liar and negative. At times painful to watch.
Finally! Biden landed on his feet with that last retort. Too bad Trump was able to throw him off earlier with debating golf scores a few minutes before that. Anyways, it looks like Biden is starting ot wake up…but it’s too late I think here. He needed to be sharp when the debate started. Clearly, Trump had him off balance for the first hour and a half.
It’s time for a serious reconsideration of where we are. We could lose the House, Senate, and Presidency. I’ve been a Biden fan for decades. He’s too old for the job and needs to withdraw his candidacy. Yell at me if you want; it’s the sad truth.
Then vote for Trump. Or stop complaining about there not be another choice and get behind him, and your House and Senate congresscritters. Or, do you really want to give I did not have sex with a porn star convicted felon another shot at holding the nuclear codes in his tiny fingers?
The point is that voting for Trump or working for Joe are not the only options. If you can’t admit that this debate was a disaster, then it’s hard to have an intelligent conversation. It’s time to put up a new candidate. There is time to do that. If the Democrats stick with Joe Biden, absent some catastrophic Trump screw-up, then November 5th will get you exactly what you fear.
The question is simply, “What is the best path to beating Trump?” and sadly, it simply isn’t Joe Biden. Time to face reality.
The time for a different candidate was 18 months ago. But the luckiest man in the world, Donald Trump, gets to run against Biden instead.
The increasing likelihood that Trump will return to power makes the Senate and House elections more important than ever. Best spend our energies there?
The point is, if your aim is to lose the election, start working on an open convention and try to put a Gavin Newsom on the ticket instead of Joe. I hope you have no children living in a red state.
Not a Newsome fan. But Gretchen Whitmer, Amy Klobuchar, Sherrod Brown? Each would have a much better chance to win than Joe. We are in big trouble and it doesn’t do any good to pretend that this isn’t the case.
What a nightmare for Biden…if this is what decides the presidency, CNN just delivered it to the convicted felon.
Did PO1135809 answer a single question? I don’t think he answered a single question. CNN made sure to prod Biden to dig deeper in all of his answers when he had a few seconds left.
Total shitshow.
Biden looking all of his 81 years going down the stairs…PO1135809 was smart not to.
They almost immediately let Trump pivot to immigration, and then they let him SIT on it for the next 5 or 6 questions, even when the topic was something else.
Yes, the moderation was lame in both legs.
It is all lies and there is plenty of time to call them out. Earl is nailing the delivery advantage as well as what Biden should do to blunt the onstage impact. Now could Biden have been more bold in simple ways that message well, so why wasn’t he?
Roe – I have test marketed this question that should be asked of every candidate running for Federal or State Office – When delivering this question make sure the candidate understands it is a Yes or No Answer – “Do you believe you have the right to manage your neighbor’s womb?”
Super Predator – Crime Bill – It would be nice for the Clinton’s and Biden to admit the Crime Bill was wrong and Lead may have been the culprit.
Immigration, Overdoses, Crime from Narco Terrorism – Prohibition and Systemic Racism demand that we end the war on naturally occurring plants while keeping man made drugs like fentanyl and meth illegal.
Biden argued for the status quo and I do not think we will get another chance to save the Republic unless we come clean. Hunter and Joe could sell this story…but alas the status quo.
Mind numbing fire hose of falsehoods.
True that.
Yep.
I dream of a supercut of CFTFG’s lies let loose on TikTok and other social media.
President Biden might think about leveraging the creative powers of the media/entertainment industrial complex.
Joe needs to prepare less and let his voice and body rest more. That he apparently didn’t did not present well.
Joyce Reid notwithstanding, I’m not interested in how the pros see this debate. I’m interested in how the public sees this.
This is not a horse race. The reality is that Donald Trump still hasn’t a clue about how to be president. He will sell any policy for the most gain of the moment, barring a few things that inflame him. But the criticism of Biden’s performance is remarkable in letting Trump off the hook for his relentless litany of lies. He will relentlessly seek payback for the slightest slight, the only thing he remembers without fail.
There is no “standard Trump” outlandishness that can be ignored because it’s Trump. That gives him a free pass for being the worst president in American history. And, I did not have sex with a porn star.
It’s hard to say why Biden wasn’t on point initially in this debate really. For all we know he’s been dealing with some serious domestic or international issues that he cannot talk about. Basically, when a US President is tired in public it’s not always clear what’s up. Maybe Biden has Covid? So, yeah, it’s not clear why he was foggy to start…and if Biden’s staff don’t want it to leak, I doubt will learn why until after the election one way or the other.
Ah, okay, Biden reputedly had a cold.
What REALLY confuses the shit out of me is this; after the debate ended, Joe and Jill Biden went on stage for the after party, and Jill said a few things and then handed the mike to Joe…
And the rasp is gone and he’s suddenly animated. WHAT THE EVERLOVING FUCK?
I am not sure this was my previous posting name, sorry
Being a sound type guy I think they had his own voice too loud in his monitors or ears, which always makes someone speak or sing way too quietly, even if only subconsciously.
Trump just shamelessly yells all the time , and adores the sound of his own voice more than anyone else ever would.
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Very kind of you , thank you Rayne.
Trump would sell his clipped finger nails for a price.
I knew of a spiritual cult leader guru who actually sold his used q-tips to cash-strapped devotees. (Not kidding). So not farfetched. From golden tennis shoes to autographed bibles to fingernail clippings? He implied the other night he had stigmata on his body from all the persecution he’s been receiving. I’ll leave that one to imagination…
Apparently he has a cold. Which could maybe have been mentioned ahead of time…though I suspect that Donnie would have tried to claim it was something else and Joe was trying to kill him.
I got a grim picture from these comments. Any upside?
I’m hoping people pissed off at DP ancient leaders just aren’t responding positively in polls and will still show up to vote.
I noticed from the get go, CNN placed the camera face on for Trump and from the side for Biden, making Biden look lost a great deal of the time.
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Yes. Such subtle discrimination works wonders for one candidate, while harming the other, but it’s never called out.
What I found interesting is every time right before a TV break, Biden scored a knock out comment & the insane guy who thinks his bland speak, outrageous lies are it couldn’t respond. Joe still has his excellent timing. I.e. damn good punches. I laughed. I also liked Biden’s facial realities, i.e. smiles. So he has some stutter age issues. He’s still very, very on & bright. A super good President. I repeat, man is he good at knock out comments. I laughed : )
That doesn’t describe the Biden I saw, but then again I couldn’t handle more than five minutes of it. He looks like a waxen cadaver with about as much energy. Any low info voter seeing this will not be favorably swayed.
Biden appeared ill the first 15 minutes, clearly. He did liven up but it really wasn’t until the last 30 minutes, if that. I don’t blame you from running the f away from having to listen to Trump’s lying one more time. It’s wearisome to say the least. As it was, I found myself leaving the room with the set on and just listening from another room a lot of the time. Heck, I made dinner away from the set, sorted coupons, etc, etc.
Your description of Biden is exactly how he struck me. That this may determine the election is heartbreaking and so fucken’ stupid. But then again, the American electorate is not known for its brilliance and is made to order for a MSM that is selling the shit (under the guise of what “people” think about Biden’s age) that Biden’s age – and his physical awkwardness – his gait, his stutter, his wrong words – makes a psychopath narcissistic like Trump a preferable choice for United States President.
i don’t get the dishing on Joe, i thought he did as well as i expected. tRump was his usual bullshit lying self. he couldn’t possibly knock down all the lies, the moderators could’ve at least tried but didn’t. all the gloom and doom is crap, IMO. CNN panel is going overboard, I think. Axelrod is right,Rs better hope Joe stays the nominee. Most other options would beat the beejeebus out of tRump.
There is no way to sugarcoat the image this presented: Nixon/Kennedy
It was more like the exact opposite; the lively clean cut animated guy was the bigger criminal in tonight’s debate.
The problem with pat historical analogies is how inaccurate they are.
Wow.
So I listened to the debate on the radio while I was driving. I have no idea how anything *looked*.
Trump obviously lied constantly and ignored the questions asked to an unbelievable extent. Absolutely unacceptable.
But I could barely hear or understand Biden — it sounded like he went into the debate with his voice blown out before he started. I don’t understand how they could have let that happen. It doesn’t affect my support of him, but I am now extremely worried about how that came across.
Yes, that’s it. Biden did seem to have tired vocal cords for some reason.
Tired vocal chords that disappeared as soon as he walked off the debate stage… I don’t know about you, but I smell a rat.
He sounded much better at his rally after the debate, which made me wonder about his mike settings at the debate.
But it is also true that he wasn’t speaking there in stretches for as long, so maybe that was just it.
That suggests you’re not much of a public speaker then. No rats need apply. Tension release would easily explain the difference. But, yes, it would have been better had Joe presented as well in the debate as he did afterwards.
The bigger issue is why the press seems to be letting Trump have a free pass, despite every answer being a pack of lies.
Interesting timing for me as my pardner complained today that AI was being used somehow in real time to evaluate the music in the background of a video she made making the sound distorted? She had to resort to another method to run her video to remove that nagging sound.
Exhausting to watch. Exhausting because campaigning is too long. Exhausting with the constant bashing, insults and abuse of Trump. Exhausting to listen to Trump’s disgusting comments about abortion. Exhausting to hear the continuous lies and fear tactics. Exhausting with his attacks, aggression and whining.
Biden looked nervous at the beginning trying to get in all he had to say before time ran out. He needed to slow down considering he was getting ahead of his words sounding garbled which exacerbates the stutter issue. Once he slowed down, he perked up pulling out some zingers.
This debate will be fact checked, dissected and discussed for days. Reported Biden had a cold.
Thanks Rayne for posting.
But not by any of the undecided voters, I’m afraid. And the MAGA-hats all believe that Biden is a senile liar and head of the Biden Crime Family, so guess what statements will be fact-checked on Fox.
I find comments that Joe Biden hasn’t the stamina hilarious. Trump has little to do but put on his make-up. Joe Biden is the sitting president, a job that never stops. Prepping for and engaging in a debate is a side hustle. Folks really need to get real.
Then there are the idiots who say with a huff that they will refuse to vote because they find problems with both candidates. A position I’ve always likened to an ostrich that doesn’t know which part of it is up in the air when it puts its head in the sand.
I cringed at how Biden spoke.
I cringed at what Trump said.
Trump had lots of energy which he used dodging questions and spewing his usual lies.
Hmm, I think I’ll vote for the stutterer over the convicted felon liar.
Thanks for doing the swearing for us.
One candidate has “Stab in the back” type lies. The bigger they are, the harder they are to refute.
The other candidate announced several policy positions.
They were both true to form.
If viewers like the lies they have a clear choice.
Exactly. It’s impossible to argue with a constant liar: any argument will be responded to with the next lie.
That’s why any debate format seems inappropriate for these two candidates. But that’s hard to make understandable to the general public.
When will MSNBC stop using defunct politician Claire McCaskill?
Oh god. So glad I turned them off before she came on. Petulant know-it-all, well past her sell-by date, instantly gets me to switch MSNBC off.
Agree 100% — I cringe every time she is on.
Any introspection into most important issues of our day was skin deep, at best. Trump lied and made up stuff, as usual. For him, he was on best behavior (still an ass hole, but…). I can’t see how viewers hoping for something worthwhile on critical issues came away enlightened.
I watched as an observer, hoping SOTU Joe who commanded that room would show up and move the needle. I didn’t see that Joe tonight. When he was on camera and not speaking, the look on his face… he just didn’t look well. And I hate saying that ’cause it sounds like right wing character assassination rhetoric. But I know what I saw.
I hope Joe and his team can rebound… fast. Just not a good night.
That was painful. Who is on the bench? Harris? Newsom? Whitmer? I’m sad.
I looked in over at Mastodon, and some of the normally sane people are panicking because Joe didn’t do what they wanted. They want to replace him now, and can’t seem to understand – yet – that it’s way too late for that. Maybe tomorrow they’ll be able to think again.
Many of those “normally sane” people have wanted him gone for some time, and doubly so after the Gaza crisis. It’s astounding that they’ll take the verbal missteps of someone well documented to have to spend extra effort controlling a stutter as proof that he clearly has no mental aptitude to lead. Truth is there is a D wing that has wanted a more progressive candidate ever since early on they realized Biden was in fact sharp enough to continue holding to his..sometimes dated policy positions. But i can’t help wonder if they’re being assisted in having their voices amplified by manipulative external actors
Media are jumping on Joe – largely, with Republican talking heads. It sells. They can’t stop selling it. They are ratcheting up the angst for commercial ends. Pathetic.
MSNBC’s Chris Jansing is spending hours on end trying to get Biden to quit. Fair and objective news coverage my ass. She repeatedly interrupts any guest not adhering to her program, but allows a laundry list of Biden critics, many Republicans, to make her point.
The election isn’t for four months. The notion that it is too late is silly. A majority of Americans are looking for someone to vote for other than Trump. Sadly, Joe is no longer that person. Bring in a young, dynamic, forward-looking candidate, and this could be turned around. I don’t want a more progressive candidate; I simply want one with a good chance to win. Happy with Whitmer, Klobuchar, Brown, Buttigieg — actually Harris sounded great in an interview with Anderson Cooper tonight.
There is time to rally and win.
That’s not how this works. I can’t believe you’re actually this grossly uninformed.
That level of familiarity with the political process is why Republicans win.
What really disgusts me isn’t just the lack of familiarity but the lack of engagement. People who are engaged in our democracy know how it works — but that takes doing more than dumping one’s fee-fees online in drive-by shit posts.
Then don’t believe me. Just read practically every liberal columnist in the nation today. They explain in great detail just how this can happen. I’m not misinformed in the slightest; the real difference between you and me is that I’m willing to face reality.
Uh-huh. This is an Associated Press story syndicated across the US, featured in LAT:
“practically every liberal columnist” means the op-eds you have read, not fact-based reporting.
You’ve never seen an overloaded bandwagon before, then. They tend to careen off the roads after a short distance.
Clearly, if Joe doesn’t step down, the Dems can’t replace. The delegates are all his. Sorry if my comment implied otherwise. But replacing him if he steps down is not difficult. And now the NYTimes is calling for him to step down.
This site is one of my primary sources of news and information. I read it daily but I haven’t commented before. I ask for your indulgence. Regarding the debate I had to say something. Biden should have preference every remark he made with something like the following:
Trump is a pathological liar. He is a convicted felon and charged with stealing state secrets, including United States nuclear strategy. He serially abuses women. He has a network of followers that do his bidding and on 6 January 2021 encouraged the violent subversion of an election. No U.S. presidential election has ever been “stolen” but his followers believe what Trump says.
He also claims people forever wanted roe v wade overturned. Really.
While president he had a private conversion with Vladimir Putin, with nobody else in the room, e.g. members of the US Department, etc., other than Putin, Trump and interpreters. What did they talk about?
During the “debate”, my mind kept flashing back to Chomsky’s idea of concision. Of course, Biden couldn’t make any reasonable point about any idea with any complexity in two minutes, not to mention one minute.
I’d have liked it if he had said “the limited amount of time allotted for answers to the important issues we will discuss tonight is too limited, so I can only speak in broad perspectives, but for more info and details, please go to our website.” It would have been even better if he had insisted on longer time periods for the participants. Trump sounds more incoherent as his answers get longer than sound bites.
I agree with journalist Hunter Walker:
I’ll still be voting for Biden because I know a great deal about both candidates, and I also know enough about the substance of the answers to recognize that Trump’s a pathological liar, but if all I knew was what I saw in the debate, I’d be looking at third party candidates.
Rayne,
Thank you for the NPR rant and the adder info in the post. THANK YOU! The media is failing our country by not addressing Trump’s advancing dementia. You personally know my concerns about this issue and the threat to our national security.
It was better than any SNL performance, definitely Emmy award winner for best everything.
Truth is that I can’t stop crying.
Two thoughts – First, at the end of this Biden term, the Chief of Staff will not have to contact his Chinese equivalent to say, “Adults in the room. We can prevent a loose cannon from firing.” Second, if those other bicyclists in the second photo are responsible for protecting Biden as Secret Service they should be wearing helmets too, in case a rapid dismount is needed as part of the job.
You can vote for a weary yet competent, experienced administrator and politician, or you can vote for a convicted felon, adjudicated rapist and indicted traitor. It should not be a difficult decision.
Or you can write in your cat’s name on the ballot.
I know I’m not helping much. But I’m sorry, the fact that the Orange Felonious is a candidate for any public office, much less the presidency, gets on my last nerve.
I’m glad we got the first debate out of the way.
Next up is letting Joe be Joe.
If a dumbass liar with 34 felony convictions and two serious cases of vital national security breaches against him can convince people to vote for him, then a law-abiding man of decency, honor and a proven record of service to this country can too. At this point to give up on Joe Biden is to give up on our democracy, laws, and civil order.
Late to the commentary, but my response last night was one of absolute dismay. I feared Biden was having a stroke. The fact that he was so pale and stood with his mouth open and a stoned expression on his face, plus the raspy, incoherent voice, frightened me.
Then, I thought: his “handlers” have been working him too hard with rehearsals and preparation, and his voice is merely tired. Then, as the evening wore on, I had a remembrance of how the old time KGB used ESP to rattle the thoughts of opponents.
It seemed that those KGB folks could actually make people say things they would have said using brain waves. Then, I finally came to my senses and thought that the President was
simply over-prepared and probably had a cold.
Nevertheless, I feel Biden, although having rectified so much of what Trump destroyed, has run out of fresh ideas and perspectives. He is an elder statesman and valuable for that reason, but this country needs vigor going into the next few years. Obviously, Trump with his irrationality and fascistic intentions is not the person (besides which he is a certified crook and ally of Putin). Only if Biden can recover by presenting himself in another setting with a healthier demeanor, and by being himself, rather than some Democratic operative’s idea of how he should appear, will he be able to re-energize voters.
From here on out, Biden needs to be true to himself, honest with himself, and if determined to tough it out, at least repeat, daily, the mantra: “Trump is a convicted felon. Trump organized a Coup. Trump has betrayed the US by hanging on to secret documents which he has carelessly stored and at times shown to unauthorized people. Trump has a deep connection in his business dealings with the Russian Mafia and Putin, in particular.”
I will vote for a Democrat for President. At this point I don’t care who it is. But I care which Party leads this country.
He’s more than 80. I don’t think any handler can change that. It’s nuts to think that a 70 or 80 year old is the best any political party can bring to lead 300 million people.
The issue is less age than acuity. I’d take Biden or Fauci over Donald Trump any day.
BTW, have you seen the guy the Republicans are running for President?
I was also referring to the 70s year old clown who is also showing wear and tear.I disagree with you on age, once you become that old the chances of completing your term, by actuarial tables probably drop significantly. Life insurance companies’ term life premiums are well into the double digits of benefits once you’re that age, for a reason.
Take it up with the House and Senate leadership. You can catch them most reliably after they cash their Social Security checks.
I find weird coincidences interesting. From my point of view as I watched this, the lying psychos lectern & he himself seemed a bit skewed larger than Biden & his lectern. I kept looking at the rectangle of the face of psychos lectern and thinking, it seems a bit bigger. I live in Hollywood adjacent (weho) and how illusion is accomplished is always a wonderment. To me it seemed the moderators were on the left of the stage, then the lying psycho, then Biden.
Maybe it’s just me & my mind but it’s very off, especially considering TFG got his psychological “in” because of The Apprentice.
I honestly can’t remember in prior debates the moderators not being placed central but I’m 73 and is it worth researching having just seen psycho. Not to be all psychological : )
I wish Kyle Clark had been the moderator of the debate! I’m not alone!
https://www.durangoherald.com/articles/our-view-need-presidential-debate-moderator-like-denver-anchor-kyle-clark-2/
https://www.poynter.org/c
Here a snip of the Colorado debate moderated by Kyle Clark. This is the bit that went viral. The whole debate is worth watching.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xmvCljBb9jA
I wish the experienced moderators were required to spend six weeks interning with a Dutch news service. Remember how it treated Trump’s Amb. Hoekstra, who tried to Trump his way through questions when he arrived in the Netherlands? One reporter chimed in, paraphrasing: “This is the Netherlands.You can’t give us a string of nonsense. You have to answer the questions asked or we’ll ignore you.”
Great. Blame it on the refs.
The problem with one track minds is managing the curves.
Watch the debate again.
Well… to me this unforced error was cast months ago when whoever decided it was a good idea to engage Trump then set about formatting the spectacle to guarantee this kind of outcome. Of the many problems they created, the most difficult one in my view, is the fact that within a very short time period 100% of the people watching will form an impression which is hard or impossible to erase. Twenty percent may parse the issues raised and come to conclusions about the arguments which will evolve over time to some degree, but everyone has the first impression. The gish galloping, which Trump was sure to engage in, would get sorted out after the debate.
I thought going in that the President’s advisers wouldn’t even think of putting them together on stage unless they knew Biden would be excellent in the format they chose and expressed to my friends that it would be a wipe out. Within three minutes Biden, who looked infirm, had a senior moment that pretty much sealed the next hour and some odd minutes.
I can’t believe that any professional media adviser or staffer had any role in the decision to go forward with this (when they had the option of simply not dignifying the idea of being with Trump onstage) and can only assume that Biden insisted on it. After the State of the Union, I was encouraged that Biden was up to it. Apparently not.
The debate may still get buried in future events, but the result was very discouraging. The democratic “message machine” is so inept it’s impossible to think they can pull out of the flat spin they created.
Time to get religion, I guess.
Abortion is one of if not the key issue for Democrats (always has been for me) this election and Biden hardly mentioned it and when he did it was muffled and forced. It’s like he doesn’t really believe in abortion rights. That is extremely unfortunate. We don’t just need Roe reinstated we need an amendment guaranteeing women full bodily and citizens rights. Nothing less. I’ll vote for Biden because he clearly is the far lessor of evils , but I am disappointed that the Democratic Party hasn’t put up a young, smart, charismatic candidate. heck why not promote Harris? She’s smart and articulate. Experienced. Shout down the rethugs. Dem’s need to fight like Republicans.