Dan Scavino, Alone with Trump, Had Access to the Attempted Murder Weapon
Since DC District unsealed Jack Smith’s warrant to obtain Trump’s Twitter account, I have described that one of the most important things prosecutors were seeking was attribution: to learn, before conducting an Executive Privilege-waived interview with Dan Scavino, whether Trump or Scavino wielded the murder weapon, Trump’s Twitter account, that almost got Mike Pence killed three years ago.
Donald Trump nearly killed his Vice President by tweet — the tweet he sent at 2:24PM on January 6, 2021.
111. At 2:24 p.m., after advisors had left the Defendant alone in his dining room, the Defendant issued a Tweet intended to further delay and obstruct the certification: “Mike Pence didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution, giving States a chance to certify a corrected set of facts, not the fraudulent or inaccurate ones which they were asked to previously certify. USA demands the truth!”
112. One minute later, at 2:25 p.m., the United States Secret Service was forced to evacuate the Vice President to a secure location.
113. At the Capitol, throughout the afternoon, members of the crowd chanted, “Hang Mike Pence!”; “Where is Pence? Bring him out!”; and “Traitor Pence!”
114. The Defendant repeatedly refused to approve a message directing rioters to leave the Capitol, as urged by his most senior advisors-including the White House Counsel, a Deputy White House Counsel, the Chief of Staff, a Deputy Chief of Staff, and a Senior Advisor.
As the indictment tells it, at the time Trump sent his potentially lethal tweet, inciting the mob bearing down on Mike Pence, Pence’s spouse, and daughter, Donald Trump was alone in his dining room with the murder weapon: an unknown phone, and his Twitter account.
But when DOJ served a warrant on Twitter for Trump’s Twitter account on January 17, they couldn’t be sure who was holding the murder weapon. They also wouldn’t know whether triggering the murder weapon was coordinated with other events.
That explains why, as Thomas Windom described in a February 9 hearing, metadata from Trump’s Twitter account showing any other account associated with his own may have been just as important for the investigation as any DMs obtained with the warrant.
MR. HOLTZBLATT: Well, Your Honor, we don’t — the issue, Your Honor — there isn’t a category of “associated account information”; that’s not information that Twitter stores.
What we are doing right now is manually attempting to ascertain links between accounts. But the ascertainment of links between accounts on the basis of machine, cookie, IP address, email address, or other account or device identifier is not information that Twitter possesses, it would be information that Twitter needs to create. So that’s the reason why we had not previously produced it because it’s not a category of information that we actually possess.
[snip]
MR. WINDOM: It is, as explained more fully in the warrant — but for these purposes, it is a useful tool in identifying what other accounts are being used by the same user or by the same device that has access to the account is oftentimes in any number of cases, user attribution is important. And if there are other accounts that a user is using, that is very important to the government’s investigation.
[snip]
MR. HOLTZBLATT: That’s right. If the records — if the linkage between accounts, which is what we understand this category to be referring to, is not itself a piece of information that we keep, then it’s not a business record that we would ordinarily produce.
What I understand the government to be asking is for us to analyze our data, as opposed to produce existing data. And we are trying to work with the government in that respect, but that is the reason that it is not something that — that is a different category of information. [my emphasis]
By that point, DOJ would have had Cassidy Hutchinson’s testimony describing what she saw sitting outside Trump’s dining room door (and once, going in to pass off Mark Meadows’ phone). They would have had two grand jury appearances from the two Pats, Cipollone and Philbin, the White House Counsel and Deputy Counsel described in the passage. They would have had at least one interview with Eric Herschmann — the Senior Advisor trying to calm him down.
They did not yet have privilege waived testimony from the Chief of Staff — Mark Meadows — or the Deputy Chief of Staff — Dan Scavino.
And Dan Scavino was the most likely other person to know about that near murder by tweet, because Dan Scavino was in his position, the Deputy Chief of Staff, first and foremost because he had masterminded Trump’s own mastery of Twitter going back to 2016.
So one thing DOJ needed to know before they conducted an interview that took place after Beryl Howell rejected yet another frivolous Executive Privilege claim in March was how Dan Scavino accessed Trump’s Twitter account when he did, from what device.
Who else had access to Trump’s Twitter account, one part of the murder weapon?
ABC News reported details from several of the interviews that took place after Jack Smith got that Twitter warrant, including extensive details about what Scavino told prosecutors. Sure enough, he claimed that he had nothing to do with the Tweet that almost got Pence killed — that instead, he had left Trump alone with the murder weapon. He claimed — as the indictment made it clear he must have — that he wasn’t in the room.
According to what sources said Scavino told Smith’s team, Trump was “very angry” that day — not angry at what his supporters were doing to a pillar of American democracy, but steaming that the election was allegedly stolen from him and his supporters, who were “angry on his behalf.” Scavino described it all as “very unsettling,” sources said.
At times, Trump just sat silently at the head of the table, with his arms folded and his eyes locked on the TV, Scavino recounted, sources said.
After unsuccessfully trying for up to 20 minutes to persuade Trump to release some sort of calming statement, Scavino and others walked out of the dining room, leaving Trump alone, sources said. That’s when, according to sources, Trump posted a message on his Twitter account saying that Pence “didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done.”
Trump’s aides told investigators they were shocked by the post. Aside from Trump, Scavino was the only other person with access to Trump’s Twitter account, and he was often the one actually posting messages to it, so when the message about Pence popped up, Cipollone and another White House attorney raced to find Scavino, demanding to know why he would post that in the midst of such a precarious situation, sources said.
Scavino said he was as blindsided by the post as they were, insisting to them, “I didn’t do it,” according to the sources. [my emphasis]
Why would Pat Cipollone confront Scavino about the Tweet if “Scavino and others walked out of the dining room” — implicitly, walked out together — “leaving Trump alone”? Cipollone would only confront Scavino if he had believed that Scavino were still there with Trump, as his testimony describes he had been until just before Trump sent the Tweet.
The warrant on Twitter, which would have shown whether it is really true that Scavino was the only other person with access to Trump’s Twitter account, is not the only way Jack Smith tested this claim, knew the answer to this claim before interviewing Scavino.
As an expert witness notice revealed last month, Smith will call a witness at Trump’s trial to describe what they found on Trump’s White House phone and that of one other person — which might be Scavino, Nick Luna (whose testimony is also described in detail in the ABC piece), or one of several other people. That witness will explain when Trump’s phone was unlocked and using Twitter on January 6.
Expert 3 has knowledge, skill, experience, training, and education beyond the ordinary lay person regarding the analysis of cellular phone data, including the use of Twitter and other applications on cell phones. The Government expects that Expert 3 will testify that he/she: (1) extracted and processed data from the White House cell phones used by the defendant and one other individual (Individual 1); (2) reviewed and analyzed data on the defendant’s phone and on Individual 1’s phone, including analyzing images found on the phones and websites visited; (3) determined the usage of these phones throughout the post-election period, including on and around January 6, 2021; and (4) specifically identified the periods of time during which the defendant’s phone was unlocked and the Twitter application was open on January 6.
So whether it is true that Scavino was blindsided by the Tweet, as he told Jack Smith he told Cipollone, Jack Smith has Scavino’s testimony that he wasn’t present (again, as I said he must), Cipollone’s testimony that Scavino said he wasn’t present, and metadata consistent with Trump sending the Tweet himself.
As you read the rest of the ABC piece, keep two things in mind. This leaked testimony concentrates on other aspects of the claims made to Jack Smith about how Twitter was used that day, such as this description of Luna’s testimony, describing that he warned Trump before the then-President sent a Tweet making him look “culpable” the day of the attack.
According to the sources, shortly before 6 p.m. on Jan. 6, Trump showed Luna a draft of a Twitter message he was thinking about posting: “These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously and viciously stripped away from great patriots. … Remember this day for forever!” it read.
The message echoed what Trump had allegedly been saying privately all day.
Sources said Luna told Trump that it made him sound “culpable” for the violence, perhaps even as if he may have somehow been involved in “directing” it, sources said.
Still, at 6:01 p.m., Trump posted the message anyway.
That testimony — that Luna warned Trump the Tweet would make him look like he was responsible for the violence — will only strengthen the extent to which this Tweet was already going to be used to prove that Trump ratified the violence, effectively showing that Trump remained in a conspiracy with those who violently attacked the Capitol even after watching them do so.
Which brings me to the second point. Multiple people who gave this testimony — and probably the person or persons who shared it with ABC — claim to believe that they witnessed that Trump almost murdered his Vice President, someone who had been just as (or in Scavino’s case, almost as) loyal as they had been.
Again, there has to be a bunch of metadata that is consistent with the stories told to Jack Smith, so it’s not so much I doubt Scavino’s claim that he was not in the room when that Tweet was sent out. It’s that this testimony came from people who chose to stick around — some of whom, including Scavino, continue to stick around — knowing that if Trump ever turns on them he wouldn’t stop short of using his mob to get them killed.
The conspiracy to corrupt the 2020 election was vast and complex, implicating many people and many crimes. But this laser focused description of the action and inaction of Trump during the afternoon of J6 makes his culpability for the violence crystal clear. Anyone is any type of executive authority position who acted this way (chief of police, school principal, mayor, etc, ) would have to face consequences for these actions. To me the question is whether there will be a superseding indictment for insurrection at some point before the J6 trial.
Additional charges against Trump at this point could significantly delay the trial, which is the one thing the prosecutors absolutely will not do.
Makes sense. Then, when would be the correct time to bring those additional charges if they are truly warranted?
Sometime mid- to late last year, that window closed (IMHO).
The courts are not going to come to the rescue, they will make the people decide. I doubt any trial happens before the great American jury weighs in come November. I’m more than half convinced this would be what the founders would have desired – we have a democracy, if we can keep it. I’m also more than half convinced that America will choose democracy decisively.
ABC’s report credits Jared Kushner with finally convincing Trump to do the “go home” video on January 6. I don’t recall seeing this previously; it has been credited to Ivanka. Is this new or did I miss it?
My main question about this is: who leaked it and why? Scavino, still loyal to Trump, could be doing it to tip off the boss in some way. Stan Woodward, his (and many others’) lawyer, has other cards to play, like Smith. As always, I am asking cui bono, and this time facing many tunnels with no light at the ends of them.
I think Herschmann has claimed credit before; I don’t know that Jared was even back yet.
There’s a different ref in this to someone who could be a Herschmann described just as a a lawyer, too.
This may be a stupid follow-up question. But what would be the purpose of leaking it? Would Trump’s team not have already gotten Scavino’s testimony in Discovery?
One possible motive for leaking is to inform other witnesses, so they can align their stories with Scavino’s.
Didn’t the Jan 6th Committee show a bunch of outtakes of that video, with Ivanka as the director? Or was that the second video? IIRC, that first video took 45 minutes to produce.
These leaks sound like either someone is on a reputation rehab mission or witness leaks to Trump. It will be interesting to see if Trump reacts.
Fun fact: the “go home” video was filmed directly after Roger Stone at the Willard is seen talking on the phone ~ 4 PM (after having dodged his filmmakers the previous 3 hours 20 minutes). At 4:03 PM Trump goes to the Rose Garden and shoots his “go home” statement. It is sent out at 4:17 PM. At 4:18 PM Roger Stone finally talks to his filmmakers again, confirming the attack to them. By 5 PM Roger Stone has left the hotel and is going to the airport to get out of DC.
We don’t know if that’s related, but it sure seems worth asking questions. Jan 6 had many backers, and they had different levels of satisfaction with what went down that day, and different times that day when they quit the project.
Thanks for that tick-tock, very helpful.
I’ve occasionally typed a text or email but then waited before pressing send while I ran it by someone else for their opinion whether I should edit the text or not send it at all.
Considering that the Pence tweet is spelled and punctuated correctly, it sure appears that it wasn’t typed by TFG. Scavino, though, could have typed the draft and handed it over to his boss for him to decide. If that were the case it could both be true that Scavino walked out of the room with everyone else and that he told Cipollone the truth that he didn’t send the message. He provided the murder weapon but didn’t shoot it.
He claims he told Cip that he was blindsided by the Tweet.
That might be the kind of thing he WOULD say if he and Trump knew it was wrong. But it’s not consistent with actually having typed it out.
But I agree on the spelling.
What if the tweet was a draft proofread by Scavino or even Cipollone on the assumption that it would be sent AFTER the certification of the election, part of a face-saving campaign to set up post-term fundraising?
“Mike Pence didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution, giving States a chance to certify a corrected set of facts, not the fraudulent or inaccurate ones which they were asked to previously certify. USA demands the truth!”
That could explain the proper grammar and lack of all caps words. That would mean Cipollone et al. had to cook up a “didn’t know anything about it” story on the fly after Trump posted it during the riot.
In his J6 committee interview, Cip called Pence a hero. So, that would be inconsistent with what he expressed there. And I think Cassidy Hutchinson also said things to reinforce that Cip was trying to prevent more craziness. I don’t think Patsy Baloney would do what you’re suggesting. That doesn’t mean I think he is entirely honest or forthright, or even fit for the position he was in, though.
Assuming for the moment that the proposition is correct : the text in form and content was prepared in advance, ( anticipating that Pence would neither refuse to count the legitimate electors nor count the illegitimate slates nor adjourn the count for bogus further investigations);
the question then arises as to why the tweet was dispatched at the precise moment it was?
If, as per the hypothesis it was intended to be sent out AFTER the count was over, what prompted the posting of it in the middle of the 2 hours in which the House and Senate were each debating the objection to the Arizona electors?
It seems likely that the trigger for the precise timing of the tweet was the breach of the Capitol building itself, shortly followed by the adjournment of proceedings in each of the chambers.
The question then arises, which is more probable, and supported by inference or evidence,
either A) the posting of the tweet was a spontaneous change of plan;
or B) it was always planned to fuel the ardour of the mob at a strategic moment ?
Trump might have fantasized about a mob and spontaneously sent the tweet at 2:24 when he intuited the moment was ripe. In other words, both could be true, with the tweet being composed (to appease him) in advance and him pulling the trigger in the moment.
I would say spontaneous change of plan. I heard today that Mike Pence, had he gotten into the Secret Service vehicle during the violence, would have been spirited away to Alaska. This tweet would have also worked well as part of an official explanation of why Pence had to go so far away. But Trump was NOT taken to the Capitol as he demanded, and Pence did not get in the car… and in a fit of bitterness, Trump pulled the draft out and posted it.
Pence said that they’d take him to Alaska or somewhere – they don’t know what the plans really were.
Huh. I wonder why Pence said Alaska. It’s funny but I think Bill Barr’s first trip as AG was to Alaska in June 2019; I just remember him looking ridiculous during a CBS This Morning interview in field gear, especially when he wore a suit during meetings there.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/what-was-william-barrs-fleece-vest-trying-to-tell-us/2019/05/31/01fdf418-83d0-11e9-bce7-40b4105f7ca0_story.html
https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2019/06/28/us-attorney-general-announces-10-million-in-emergency-funds-to-support-public-safety-in-rural-alaska/
I can’t find it now, but I have a vague recollection that a Russian oligarch’s yacht was cruising around there at the time of Barr’s visit to Alaska. I looked in my notes and also did a quick search online, but too much recent stuff keeps flooding the searches.
Yeah, I had been looking into that yacht as well, had pulled into Washington port. I need to do a better job of collecting and sorting material like this — ends of threads which look sketchy, lay dormant, but should be pulled again in the future.
I’ll put that on my To-Do List to pull on after I finish my snow storm preparedness chores.
Cbsnews /attorney-general-william-barr-visits-alaska-shines-light-on-public-safety-emergency/
“A boat is required to reach the remote fishing village of Napaskiak in southwest Alaska. But this is one of the places Attorney General William Barr came to see.”
Really?! Barr is in office less than 4 mo and a remote island fishing village is the spot he picks to discuss public safety? I’m thinking the winning factor for this choice is the part that says “a boat is required,” particularly if one wanted to meet privately, say, with an oligarch with a yacht.
(Note to mods: not sure of the format for making a link unclickable. Thanks for all you do.)
Obviously we are all speculating as to what evidence might exist as to contacts communication and complicity involving the pro-Trump Congress critters and Trump. There has been some indications that Grassley had been prepared to fulfill the VP role of President of the Joint Session, from 5 Jan ! : https://iowacapitaldispatch.com/2021/01/05/grassley-suggests-he-may-preside-over-senate-debate-on-electoral-college-votes/
So a plan to prevent Pence from attending, or if he attends causing him to be evacuated so that he was unable to continue, is not beyond the realms of imagination; of course conceding that the evidence for this is thin.
I suspect others have noted this previously, but that draft tweet Trump showed Luna reads like it was written by someone else. Perhaps someone texting Trump in celebration of the righteous riot, and he then reposted it as his own words.
One reason you get the Twitter warrant is to make sure that no one in the Willard had access to Trump’s Twitter account and was drafting tweets that way.
Could he have used the phone to speak with someone positioned at a laptop ( with twit account access)…in real time. Seems like that would be easy to trace back…
If I was him I would have a control central person with better typing skills and a larger screen …
Someone else, like Roger Stone?
Not hard to imagine Trump and Stone on a back and forth, then Stone suggests a tweet. Trump shows the tweet to Scavino, who says no. Left unsupervised, Trump gives Stone the go-ahead, or hits send.
Some observations from #J6TL:
4:05 PM TRUMP has been more focused on PENCE defying him […] TRUMP has ignored requests for a stronger statement so far.
4:05 PM President-elect BIDEN addresses the Nation on TV from Delaware
4:05 PM JUNIOR TRUMP to MEADOWS: We need an oval address. He has to lead now. It’s gone too far and gotten out of hand
4:05 PM STONE [at WILLARD] is talking on the phone to someone.
4:11 PM JUNIOR DON to MEADOWS: Now Biden beating us to the punch
4:13 PM Jim ACOSTA [CNN] tweets:
4:15 PM Rep. HERRARA BEUTLER to MEADOWS: We need to hear from the president. On TV. I hate that Biden jumped him on it
Now if only Jim has said explicitly who that source is/was…
harpie — i was going to butter you up: you remember these things better than i do.
apologies, very tired. oldening eyes.
link, or case# and ddoc# — just a clue would do.
Question: did SecServ vehicle wheel-grabbing not appear because … minor ?
from Indictment, bottom p 38: where i left off …
b. After the Defendant falsely stated that — the Pennsylvania legislature wanted “to recertify their votes. They want to recertify. But the only way that can happen is if Mike Pence agrees to send it back,” — the crowd began to chant, “Send it back.”
I’m not sure what you’re asking, greenbird…
could you rephrase? and I’ll try to answer.
The incident where Trump is alleged to have grabbed the steering while in the limo from a Secret Service detail agent after he was told to return to the White House following his speech on the Eclipse, Jan 6, 2021.
Sorry…feeling very dimwitted…
“wheel-grabbing didn’t appear” where?
Ah. Not sure from the in-context flow here myself. Perhaps Greenbird found what they were looking for?
Ok, thanks!
I hope so.
CapitolHunters adds more context re: STONE, here:
https://www.emptywheel.net/2024/01/07/dan-scavino-alone-with-trump-had-access-to-the-attempted-murder-weapon/#comment-1032234
THANKS!
[From about] 12:40 PM to [about] 4:00 PM STONE dodges his filmmakers
4:00 PM STONE [at WILLARD] seen by his filmmakers talking on phone
4:03 PM TRUMP goes to Rose Garden to film “go home” VIDEO
4:17 PM TRUMP Tweets “go home” VIDEO
4:18 PM STONE finally talks to his filmmakers again
[By] 5:00 PM STONE has left the WILLARD and is on the way to the airport
If anyone want’s more detail,
I did a TL on that article/series of events, here:
https://www.emptywheel.net/2022/03/08/enrique-tarrio-gets-his-chance-to-fit-in-or-fuck-off/#comment-926082
Be sure to read down to Eureka‘s [<3]
and further to our Magic 8-ball discussion.
[FYI comments swapped out. :-) /~Rayne]
THANKS, Rayne! :-)
I was thinking along the lines of Roger Stone texting in to Trump, wasn’t even considering if it was pre-drafted on Trump’s phone by someone else.
Is there public knowledge of other communication Apps on Trump’s phone?
Your honor, I call Mike Pence to the witness stand?
Once again, an excellent piece due to excellent research and analysis.
The evidence against Trump et al. for their 2020 election crimes is solid and comprehensive.
Trump can only delay his future trials; that’s all he can do; the evidence against him will convict him, which is why his only hope of not going to trial and being convicted is by winning the 2024 Presidential election.
Trump is so transactional and desperate now to avoid any trial that he is furiously trying to persuade Justice Kavanaugh to side with Alito, Thomas, Gorsuch and Barrett in favor of Trump; in addition, Trump is desperately whipping the Georgia State Republicans do redo their anti-DA Fani Willis legislation in order to have her case against Trump dropped.
As for Judge Cannon, she and her mother are so deeply involved in the Miami Cuban exile political scene that supports Trump unequivocally, Judge Cannon will continue helping Trump by delaying his trial until after the 2024 Presidential election. If Trump becomes president, that case will be dropped. If Trump loses and a Democrat wins the election, Judge Cannon will leave the bench and have her own TV show.
LOL.
You still haven’t learned there is no future in cynicism.
Enjoy your own television show.
I’m going to steal that for sure. At least on the internet, I’ll give you credit, though.
This from ABC News:
‘Special counsel probe uncovers new details about Trump’s inaction on Jan. 6: Sources’
“More than a half-hour after Trump was first pressed to take some sort of action, Trump finally let Scavino post a message on Trump’s Twitter account telling supporters to support law enforcement and “stay peaceful.” It was 2:38 p.m.”
It was Scavino, on Trump’s account.
… in the oval office. If only it was with the pipe wrench.
I have a minor point of confusion re: “Cipollone would only confront Scavino if he had believed that Scavino were still there with Trump”. Couldn’t Cipollone also have assumed, or perhaps none, that Scavino had the ability to post to Trump’s Twitter account from his own phone and thus from anywhere in the world? Is there something I don’t understand here? And again thanks for all the great work.
To me, it’s telling that after the tweet went live, Cip searched for Scavino, not Trump. He believed Dan had written it. If Scavino had access to Trump’s account, couldn’t he have tweeted it himself from whatever location he was at? If he did, it wouldn’t surprise me if he lied to Cip about it when confronted — these people learn to deflect as well as their boss.
That’s why I raised the Twitter warrant and the expert testimony.
Jack Smith knows which phone this was sent from. What he has locked in, whether true or not, is that Trump was alone.
Allegedly alone? This is about a bunch of coup enablers at the center of power trying to cover their tracks as much as possible.
Perhaps, the most that can be said now is that Scavino is trying to distance himself from the message.
That’s definitely his game plan for sure. At this time anyways.
I taught middle and high school in a public system for 36 years. It’s a job where you encounter many people and engage with their personal behavior daily – I figure I had more than 5000 students. Kids and their families help you to construct a spectrum of what’s normal behavior (a wide band), what’s quirky (a smaller band), and what’s whack (very narrow).
Trump’s always been whack, and insulated from consequences by wealth. His behavior on January 6 is consistent throughout – he starts the day feeling put upon and his resentment builds during his speech, then he happily watches the results of that speech carried live by every media source in the country. He feels vindicated to see his adversary, Pence, put in danger of his life by those Trump spurred to act on his behalf. At 6:01, he still feels triumphant. I did that!
Everyone who was certain he would behave in a presidential manner on January 6 expected a psychopath to behave in a normal way.
Just to thank you for this real world example of problem children, and when they grow up become everyone’s problem.
I love this! Thanks LaMissy!
And I 🥰 you, Dr. Wheeler.
” I did read it, all. It sure looks ‘conclusive. ”
i waited for this post to brother who rarely keeps up.
i included some suggestions before he read it, and read the comments.
he’s like ‘learning a totally new language’ … and his comment above cheers me so.
A superseding indictment risks delaying the trial.
[Moderator’s note: **IMPORTANT – SECOND REQUEST** Please let me know by reply to this comment if your email address used with this comment is working/valid. Thank you. /
~Rayne]This: “his resentment builds during his speech, then he happily watches the results of that speech carried live.”
Agree, but after the comma: he tries to go to the Capitol at the head of the mob, but the Secret Service vetoes that, and he briefly blows up in the car. Then he happily, etc., etc.
(Looks like I hit the wrong “Reply” button. This is supposed to be a reply to LaMissy!)
Great edit.
favorite post, favorite comments, prepare the musicians … !
(love the smart new field-fill-in-ers!)
I’d imagine Jack Smith would be really interested to know who tweeted the delayed couple of tweets urging protesters to be peaceful. Was it Trump or Scavino who tweeted that?
If Scavino is lying about his involvement in crafting the Murder tweet, which kinda leaves TFG holding the bag, doesn’t he do so at great risk given “what’s his name’s” penchant for payback?
Especially given that Scavino still works for Trump. That’s why I suspect there’s a backdoor play going on here; Scavino himself seems highly unlikely to embarrass the boss so publicly. Woodward does have other irons in the fire. I could be way off here. Given this gang, there are myriad possibilities.
Is it possible that during his interview with Dan Scavino, Jack Smith mentioned that he knew only Scavino and Trump had access to the Twitter account that broadcast the Pence comment and he might charge Scavino with attempted murder unless he cooperated?
A late reply to boloboffin (above at 2:48 pm) because I had first some research to do. bolofoffin wrote:
That would explain not only “the proper grammar and lack of all caps words” but also the use of the past tense (“Mike Pence didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done,” my emphasis). Pence hadn’t even have a chance to count a fake slate of electors at 2:24 pm, even if “he had the courage” to do so. Here are the times from the Congressional Record:
12:55 pm — House called to order after recess.
12:59 pm — VP and Senators arrive, joint session called to order by VP.
Alabama votes (9 for Trump/Pence): no objection, counting certified;
Alaska votes (3 for Trump/Pence): no objection, counting certified;
Arizona votes (11 for Biden/Harris): objection (by Gosar and Cruz), VP announces retirement of the Senate to its chambers.
1:15 pm — House session begins, Speaker: “a Representative may speak to the objection for 5 minutes, and not more than once. Debate shall not exceed 2 hours, after which the Chair will put the question, Shall the objection be agreed to?” — Speaking: Scalise, Lofgren, Jordan, Schiff, Biggs, Raskin, Boebert (yielding a minute to Mast), Neguse, Johnson (LA), Grijalva, Gosar …
2:18 pm — “Mr. Speaker, can I have order in the Chamber?”
The Speaker pro tempore (Mr. McGovern) declares the House in recess.
2:26 pm — Recess expired, Gosar has 2 1/2 minutes remaining.
2:29 pm — House in recess again.
9:02 pm — Recess expired, House called to order by the Speaker.
Hence it is shown (1) there was no opportunity for Pence to count fake electors prior to 2:24 pm; (2) Trump’s tweet was sent while the House was in an 8-minute recess prior to the long recess from 2:29 pm to 9:02 pm. (According the the Congressional Record–Senate, “the Senate, at 2:13 p.m., recessed subject to the call of the Chair and reassembled at 8:06 p.m. when called to order by the Vice President of the United States.”)
Thank you, and excellent point about the weird past tense in the tweet.
TRUMP already knew what PENCE planned to do.
During a [approx] 11:20 AM, TRUMP [in Oval Office] / PENCE [at VP residence] phone call: Pence has told TRUMP he will certify BIDEN.
At 11:33 AM Stephen MILLER’s assistant [at WH], Robert Gabriel, emails the speechwriting team [at Ellipse] with the line: “REINSERT THE MIKE PENCE LINES.” [(Eric Herschmann had asked for deletions earlier in the morning)]
Around 12:30 PM, while TRUMP is Rabble Rousing at the Ellipse, AND as Pence arrives at the Capitol, PENCE’s office releases the letter to Congress they had drafted: “As a student of history … I do not believe that the Founders of our country intended to invest the Vice President with unilateral authority to decide which electoral votes should be counted during the Joint Session of Congress…”
At 1:02 PM, PENCE tweets screenshots of that letter to Congress:
https://twitter.com/Mike_Pence/status/1346879811151605762
1:02 PM · Jan 6, 2021
Here is some related info on PENCE movements that day:
https://www.emptywheel.net/2022/10/23/friends-of-sedition-the-networked-january-6-conspiracy/#comment-968314
Interesting that Trump said he made a big mistake “five years ago” when it was closer to four. Especially given his seemingly careful question to supporters in Iowa this weekend as to whether they are better off now than they were *five* years ago–as opposed to the traditional four (see: Reagan et. al.).
“TRUMP already knew what PENCE planned to do.” That’s true, and has been known for a while. But it still doesn’t explain the past tense in the tweet. Trump says in the phone call before the joint session: “If you do that, …” and continues with “You’re not protecting our country …” So why not in the tweet “Mike Pence doesn’t have the courage to do what should be done …”?
Yes, it’s a good question …I’m thinking about it. :-)
I think that because he himself was not there to rabble-rouse them in person, his move was to make it seem as if PENCE had already been disloyal, thinking that would make them respond more violently…
Thank you, harpie, for your thoughts. My thoughts go in a different direction though. I think using the present tense might have taken the violence even further (than happened anyway after a rioter had read the tweet aloud to the mob). You’ve done this impressive timeline on the other post two days ago. Is it known when exactly did the hang-Mike-Pence chants begin? Obviously sooner. I don’t dare to imagine Pence not having escaped. Hadn’t Chuck Grassley already fantasized about chairing the joint session?
WRT the 8-minute recess while Gosar was presenting his 5 minutes in the House, I just went back to C-Span. Unfortunately the recess isn’t captured in full, and what happened right after Gosar was finished, neither. Watching was interesting nevertheless. Gosar’s request “Mr. Speaker, can I have order in the Chamber?” came more or less out of the blue, from a more and more breathless sounding Gosar (https://www.c-span.org/video/?507672-101/house-debate-arizona-electoral-challenge-part-1 at 56:27). Of course it was minutes after the Capitol was breached, and the news must have arrived in the House chamber. The other clip, capturing Gosar’s 2nd half of his speech, is cut off right after the Speaker pro tempore saying: “The gentleman’s time has expired. The House is going to go back into recess.” (https://www.c-span.org/video/?507672-102/house-debate-arizona-electoral-challenge-part-2; this isn’t documented verbatim in the Congressional Record.)
I’m still curious if there is any evidence about who spoke or texted to whom during the time from 2:18 to 2:26, and Trump’s tweet sent at 2:24, well knowing that speculations are idle.
Wouldn’t Trump want the violence to go farther? Or are you arguing, Konny, that he just didn’t think of using the present tense?
I was mainly supporting boloboffin’s thought that the tweet might have been a pre-written text to be sent after the joint session ended, but then sent by Trump (or whoever), prematurely so to speak. But after reading harpie’s 11:43 comment I think the discussion about past or present tense is less important, perhaps just hair splitting.
I think the past tense indicates rather strongly that the tweet was scripted earlier–once Trump knew for sure his pressure campaign against Pence hadn’t worked–and that Scavino (at least) must have known of/contributed to its existence.
The plan was probably to send it later: after the speech plus whatever followed in its aftermath. Scavino now leaks his “shocked, shocked” surprise at the 2:24 tweet, but my guess is that he was surprised at the *timing* of Trump sending the tweet, not its content.
Scavino wants Smith and the public to infer that he was shocked by the entire thing, which is the reason for the leak. But not, I believe, the truth.
[I’m just putting this here as a bit of related info,
noting past tense…don’t have time to expand on it]
2:26 PM [approx.] EASTMAN [from the WILLARD] emails PENCE Counsel JACOB, [hiding with PENCE at the loading dock] accusing PENCE of “causing the violence by refusing to block certification of Biden’s victory”
“The ‘siege’ is because YOU and your boss did not do what was necessary to allow this to be aired in a public way so that the American people can see for themselves what happened.”
Eastman said his message was a response to an [2:14 PM] email in which Jacob told him that his “bull—-” legal advice was why Pence’s team was [now]“under siege.”
Zoe Tillman reported:
2:28 PM PENCE reaches secure location at underground loading dock area https://twitter.com/ZoeTillman/status/1506262777945600014
The ABC story would make a lot more sense if they included something that was elided here:
Let me rewrite that for ABC:
…as protesters began making their way to the Capitol, Trump was prevented by his Secret Service detail from joining them and forced to return to the White House,
Including that bit explains why Trump was so angry that day.
Donald Trump is the guy who would have served in Viet Nam, but for those pesky heel spurs. He’s also the guy who would have marched to the Capitol, but for those pesky Secret Service agents and all of those freaking steps.
You mean the same slack-assed orange-stained schlub who needed a golf cart to follow other world leaders in Taormina, Sicily in May 2017?
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/g7-leaders-took-stroll-sicily-170621801.html
The same hapless human-skinned orangutan who needed former UK PM May’s help several times, holding her hand to navigate small changes in elevation?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-holds-donald-trump-hand-why-does-stairs-slopes-medical-problem-a8448051.html
This same tangerine-tinted bawbag who struggled with an 11-degree ramp at Westpoint’s graduation in June 2020?
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/06/trump-claims-victory-over-very-slippery-ramp
He can’t even be truthful about his health though we can all see he has had problems. Why should we believe he handles anything else differently?
I’m still surprised he didn’t need a golf cart to get from the WH door to Marine 1.
“hapless human-skinned orangutan” —
sorry, but insulting to most if not all orangutans
I’m afraid Donald couldn’t walk from the front door of the White House to Pennsylvania Avenue, less than 100 yards, let alone the nearly 2.5 miles to the Capitol, unlike, say, Jimmy Carter. He would have wanted to have been driven to the East Door and, like MacArthur wading through the waves to the Philippine shore, would have filmed his entry a dozen or more times, to make sure the one in the can had the right look. Might have worked, but for the hundreds of cameras controlled by others, and the mob.
It also captures the nascent dictator vibe to the whole day, Trump wanting to make his own “pronunciamento” at the head of his troops.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2024/jan/07/mouse-filmed-tidying-up-man's-shed-every-night-video
being not-American i have a different way of seeing the world, you are the good guys but cripes.
you have on one hand a canny old bird who knows how to draw on a lifetimes experience of rough politics
and
a crotch grabbing,serial bankrupt,industrial strength liar.
anyway,
i hope this makes a pleasant few minutes in your day.
[Welcome back to emptywheel. Please choose and use a unique username with a minimum of 8 letters. It has been more than a year since your last known comment; this site has been moving to a new minimum standard to support community security. Because your username is far too short it will be temporarily changed to match the date/time of your first known comment until you have a new compliant username. Please also do not enter anything in the URL field as you did not add a home page URL with your first comment. Thanks. /~Rayne]
We should develop a board game with a cast of characters from the January 6 perps and market it for fundraising. Something like a cross between Monopoly (collect 200 campaign grift bucks each time you pass Go or Go to Jail for Sedition) and Clue (who and what is in the final indictments filed by Special Counsel).
But we need to find a way for users to compete for the likely winning play, Colonel Catsup with Scarlet Scavino in the White House Dining Room with a Twitter Account.
If you land on “Chance” you pick a card:
“Threaten to sue someone for defamation”
“Pretend you’re going to take the stand”
“Demean Rudy”
“Demean Pence”
“Crap all over Mo Brooks”
“Endorse Hershel Walker”
The possibilities are endless. Of course there is a “GO DIRECTLY TO JAIL. DO NOT PASS GO, DO NOT COLLECT $200” card, but there is no “GET OUT 0F JAIL FREE” card.
Maybe Capo Catsup instead of Colonel. But I’m sorry to report that MAGA has already created a board game:
“Storm the Capitol” designed for 4 to 7 players.
Of course, that doesn’t mean someone couldn’t make a much better one. Maybe call it “91 Charges.” Or something better…
FYI: Here’s the Wayback Machine Twitter | X posts by Trump until he was banned on January 8, 2021:
https://www.thetrumparchive.com/