After a Year of Executive Privilege Fights, Mike Pence Just Tweeted It Out

The WSJ has published an excerpt — the parts relating to January 6 — from the Mike Pence book coming out next week. It includes descriptions of the following conversations with the then-President, at least some of which Pence was the only witness:

  1. Lunch on November 16, 2020, at which Trump said, “2024 is so far off.”
  2. A call on December 5, on which Trump raised the possibility of challenging the vote.
  3. A December cabinet meeting.
  4. A December 19 conversation in which Trump mentioned plans for the January 6 rally (which Pence claims to have thought was a “useful” idea).
  5. A January 1, 2021 phone call in which Pence told Trump he opposed Louie Gohmert’s lawsuit arguing that Pence had discretion to decide which votes to count. Trump accused his Vice President of being “too honest” and informed him that, “People are gonna think you’re stupid,” for choosing not to claim the power to throw out votes.
  6. A call on January 2 on which Trump said that if Pence, “wimp[ed] out,” he would be “just another somebody.”
  7. A meeting involving John Eastman and others on January 4.
  8. A meeting involving John Eastman in the Oval Office on January 5.
  9. The call Trump made to Pence on January 6 where he again called Pence a wimp.
  10. A meeting on January 11, where in response to Trump’s question whether he was scared on January 6, Pence said he was angry, purportedly just about the people “tearing up the Capitol.”
  11. An exchange inside the Oval Office during which Trump told Pence “Don’t bother” to pray for him.

Every one of these conversations are ones that would traditionally have been covered by Executive Privilege. Trump claimed such exchanges were covered by Executive Privilege starting over a year ago. Both Pence’s top aides — Greg Jacob and Marc Short — and three White House Counsels claimed such exchanges were covered by Executive Privilege this summer, and only in recent weeks did Beryl Howell override the claims of Pence’s people.

And yet, all the while, this book was in the works, including just on this topic, eleven conversations directly with the former President, many of them conversations to which Pence was the only witness.

Much of this description is self-serving (as most autobiographies are), an attempt to craft his support for challenging the election but not rioting. The excerpt, at least, does not disclose the advice that led him to reject Trump’s demand that he throw out votes.

This passage, in particular, seems to project any testimony that Eastman knew the request of Pence was illegal onto Greg Jacob, not himself.

On Jan. 4, the president’s chief of staff, Mark Meadows, summoned me to the Oval Office for a meeting with a long list of attendees, including the legal scholar John Eastman. I listened respectfully as Mr. Eastman argued that I should modify the proceedings, which require that electoral votes be opened and counted in alphabetical order, by saving the five disputed states until the end. Mr. Eastman claimed I had the authority to return the votes to the states until each legislature certified which of the competing slate of electors for the state was correct. I had already confirmed that there were no competing electors.

Mr. Eastman repeatedly qualified his argument, saying it was only a legal theory. I asked, “Do you think I have the authority to reject or return votes?”

He stammered, “Well, it’s never been tested in the courts, so I think it is an open question.”

At that I turned to the president, who was distracted, and said, “Mr. President, did you hear that? Even your lawyer doesn’t think I have the authority to return electoral votes.” The president nodded. As Mr. Eastman struggled to explain, the president replied, “I like the other thing better,” presumably meaning that I could simply reject electoral votes.

On Jan. 5, I got an urgent call that the president was asking to see me in the Oval Office. The president’s lawyers, including Mr. Eastman, were now requesting that I simply reject the electors. I later learned that Mr. Eastman had conceded to my general counsel that rejecting electoral votes was a bad idea and any attempt to do so would be quickly overturned by a unanimous Supreme Court. This guy didn’t even believe what he was telling the president.

By context, Pence asked Eastman whether Eastman thought Pence had “the authority to reject or return votes.” Eastman’s response, without qualification that he was addressing just one of those two items, was that, “it’s never been tested in the courts.” Then, by Pence’s telling, he directly told the then-President that Eastman had only said that returning votes to the states would be illegal. But that’s not what Eastman responded to! He responded to both, and did so in front of Trump.

By stating that Eastman later told his general counsel, Greg Jacob, that the Supreme Court would overturn any effort to reject the votes, rather than just return them, Pence is making Jacob the key witness, and he’s telling the story in such a way that Trump was not directly a witness to the conversation.

Maybe it really happened like Pence tells it. Maybe not. There were other attendees (including, probably, Jacob), and some of them have likely already described what they saw to the grand jury.

But this protective telling of the story is particularly interesting given this description of how, on January 1, Pence told Trump he didn’t have the authority to decide which votes to count.

Early on New Year’s Day, the phone rang. Texas Rep. Louie Gohmert and other Republicans had filed a lawsuit asking a federal judge to declare that I had “exclusive authority and sole discretion” to decide which electoral votes should count. “I don’t want to see ‘Pence Opposes Gohmert Suit’ as a headline this morning,” the president said. I told him I did oppose it. “If it gives you the power,” he asked, “why would you oppose it?” I told him, as I had many times, that I didn’t believe I possessed that power under the Constitution.

This is the first, in the excerpt, that he describes telling this to Trump. But he also says he had already told him the same, “many times.” The circumstances of those conversations would be really critical for pinpointing the timeline of Trump’s machinations and the extent that Pence warned him they were illegal.

For months, the press has been squawking about how unprecedented it would be to subpoena the former Vice President. But he just made the case for doing so, right here.

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131 replies
  1. Inspector Clouseau says:

    I really wonder what Pence’s endgame and motivation is here; sure he may sell some books with this tale, but its not going to be a NYT best seller, nor do the rabid maga fanbase read books without pictures so he is not changing anyones mind. He is about as dull as a piece of dusty wood so he has no hope of trying to rehabilitate his image for a commentator spot on fox or others. He doesn’t have the charisma of Desantis so he got no hope in a fight for the 2024 nod. I highly doubt he is going to slip back into state government, so really whats the endgame with this book. Can’t be more than low 7 figure payout on a good day, which he can make with a few speeches over a year. I’m honestly puzzled at his refusal to talk in public but then release the book.

    • Clare Kelly says:

      “For months, the press has been squawking about how unprecedented it would be to subpoena the former Vice President. But he just made the case for doing so, right here.“

      To build the ‘my hands are clean’ narrative in the eyes of his evangelical base/his god for when the above happens?

      • John Paul Jones says:

        Exactly so. Whether he really understands he’s doing a Pilate is an interesting question, but to me what’s more interesting is it seems clear that he sees his “mission” as cleansing the Republican Party, and taking it back to the Party of the 80s and 90s, with evangelicals running the local constituencies and making sure the right (Christian) people become candidates, the party which elected George W to the Presidency. For some Republicans, it will be a compelling argument, and for Pence, if there’s enough of them, and enough non-Republicans who can see him as an honest man doing his best to fight crooks, he figures it gives him a shot at the 2024 nomination. That’s probably the main purpose of the book, to clear Trump out of his way a little bit faster.

        I don’t say any of this accords with reality, just what strikes me as the guy’s motivations and hopes.

      • J. H. Frank says:

        Evangelicals support Trump and MAGA candidates more than they support Pence and the other squishes.

        Normally, I would note that polling is notoriously unreliable, but Evangelicals are a cohort that polls fairly accurately, being more likely to be older, own a landline out of habit, and willing to talk about their beliefs to anyone.

    • Just Some Guy says:

      Oh his book will sell all right — Pence’s superPAC or whatever will buy a bunch of copies to get it on bestseller lists.

      Whether anyone besides Marcy, Dow Jones employees, and DoJ prosecutors will read it is another matter.

      • Purple Martin says:

        Yes, as ‘gifts to supporters.” That should take care of a half-dozen…wonder what they’ll do with the rest?

    • Jim Luther says:

      You are attempting to rationally understand a person who proudly rejects evidence, logic, and reason as the basis of making decisions. He is an anti-Enlightenment soldier of God – nothing more, nothing less. Of course you, and many others, are puzzled. It amazes me that people are still surprised that these people can not be influenced by facts, reason, and/or logic – when that is exactly what they despise and they have explicitly said so for a long, long time.

      • earlofhuntingdon says:

        Rational understanding of another person is entirely the point. It doesn’t require that other person to be rational.

      • Hug h roonman says:

        Holy Warrior Pence as savior of the formerly gop is quite a vision. He and his ilk opened the door for Trump.

        Echoes of Barry-

        “Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they’re sure trying to do so, it’s going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can’t and won’t compromise. I know, I’ve tried to deal with them.”
        ― Barry Goldwater

      • xbronx says:

        Thank you for that, Jim Luther. Pence and his crowd “who proudly reject evidence, logic, and reason as the basis of making decisions” are all Monseigneur Claude Frollo and we on the Enlightenment side are all Quasimodo.

      • skua says:

        “At that I turned to the president, who was distracted, and said, “Mr. President, did you hear that? Even your lawyer doesn’t think I have the authority to return electoral votes.” MP.

        “… a person who proudly rejects evidence, logic, and reason as the basis of making decisions …”. JL.

        These two quotes conflict.

        The opposition is at times very capable and very intelligent, I think.

      • Dark Phoenix says:

        Yeah, DeSantis has zero charisma. In a comparison between DeSantis and Pence, DeSantis has more charisma, but that’s because the fly has more charisma than Mike Pence.

      • Tom-1812 says:

        DeSantis always looks like he should be wearing a double-breasted, dark blue pinstripe suit with wide lapels, a cream-coloured fedora with spats to match, and carry a violin case with a Tommy gun in it tucked under his arm.

        • xbronx says:

          I like the picture but it gives DeSantis too much agency. To me, he’s so much more like Lefty Ruggiero, the Pacino character in Donnie Brasco.

    • Silly but True says:

      Pence’s end game is to present an anti-MAGA / defender-of-democracy image to capture the votes of the Liz Cheney Republicans and Democrats, while trying not to completely lose all the right wing conservatives of his fundamental politics.

    • Commentmonger says:

      It is all about the grift. and secondarily about power. The GOP doesn’t want to do what the J6 Committee asks, because they don’t think it is legitimate. (FYI – only GOP-led investigations are legitimate).

    • Rapier says:

      Pence has set a path for himself that involves himself, God, and America, and he is destined to play a part in all that. He has no idea what that part is so he’ll just keep on keeping on. Doing his part, the boy from Indiana, doing his part to set the universe right. Somehow. That’s his story and he’s sticking to it.

    • HychkA says:

      “Dence” was my governor in IN, the stupidest gov IN ever had. He has only three things going for him; he refused tramp’s request that he void the election; the Krazy Khristians love him; and, the dry stupid among us have good reason to feel a strong bond.

    • Wajim says:

      Wait, what? The “. . . charisma of Desantis . . .” Man, and cut, take five, talk to your best friend, reconsider, um . . . yeah, perhaps a good nap on that one

  2. Fraud Guy says:

    One phrasing that does ring true is that, after 4 years in the White House, Pence still calling Trump by his title, Mr. President, rather than “Don”, “Donald”, or “Donnie”; I doubt there was any level of casual familiarity between them. Conversely, I could see Kamala Harris calling Biden “Joe”, “Joey”, or “Dark Brandon” casually.

  3. Wouter says:

    Trump knew Pence was unwilling to cooperate, was Trump there for heading to the Capitol him self (which was blocked by his security) to reject the votes ?

    • smf88011 says:

      He was afraid that the Secret Service would kick him out of the car in the middle of the Insurrectionists next to the gallows.

      • Rayne says:

        Can you point to a source which documents this? Or is this your conjecture?

        If the latter do not make statements like this as if fact.

        • Wajim says:

          Rayne, been trying to change my handle to the new “8” rule, but, damn, can’t figure out how. Old guy, please help

          • theartistvvv says:

            What worked for me was simply typing in a new name. I made a note for the moderators when I did so and was acknowledged, and I think my first post went into moderation hold for a few hours.

            I’m still at the stage where I occasionally use the old handle by habit and have to retype, but it’s been otherwise smoove.

      • vertalio says:

        Wasn’t his family also present? He’d have to abandon them.

        But did he also know they might just hustle him away so Grassley could take his place?

      • Katherine M Williams says:

        My understanding is that he feared the SS might spirit him to an “undisclosed location”, somewhere where he couldn’t certify the election, and some other lickspittle republican would refuse to do so- what Trump wanted.

        • Mycotropic says:

          At the point where Pence wasn’t available to certify, trump could have said that there’s an insurrection going on, the election is not complete and that he has to call martial law for the good of the republic. That might throw the election to the supreme court that he just loaded while he’s still the power at hand and still the president. As I see it anyway!

  4. harpie says:

    PENCE, re 1/4/21 Oval Office mtg :

    “At that I turned to the president, who was distracted, and said, “Mr. President, did you hear that? Even your lawyer doesn’t think I have the authority to return electoral votes.”

    I wonder what TRUMP “was distracted” with AT that time,
    and WHY Pence thought it important enough to mention.

    • Silly but True says:

      A point, perhaps _the_ entire point of Pence’s book may be to create plausible deniability for Trump against tying Jan. 6 activities to Trump.

    • Pick2 says:

      maybe could be read to say whatever lala-land T was inhabiting ATM– besides that seat at that meeting– it was important enough to snap him out of it and confirm T was hearing what was going on there.

        • Pick2 says:

          Respectfully, was attempting to refer to the former president, in an abbreviated way, which, noted and agreed, might confuse the reader. Thanks for pointing it out, I wasn’t sure.

    • Tom-1812 says:

      I think it’s Pence’s way of signaling that he’s fully aware that Trump is “a fucking moron”, as Rex Tillerson put it, but just expressing his opinion in a more Christian manner. I also think that still addressing Trump as “Mr. President” after four years together in the White House, as Fraud Guy noted above at 10:03 am, is another effort on Pence’s part to put some distance between himself and Trump, to show that he was never buddy-buddy with TFG. Pence is doing this, of course, in what he perceives to be the interests of his own political future as a Reformed Republican.

      Flash forward ten years. An older, slightly stooped but still snowy-haired Mike Pence is being interviewed for the new Ken Burns documentary, “American Nightmare: Donald Trump in the White House”. Pence furrows his brow thoughtfully, looks downward to consider what he’s going to say, looks up again, squints his eyes, then tells the interviewer in his earnest preacher tone of voice, “But you know, I never really supported Donald Trump.”

  5. harpie says:

    PENCE: In a [12/5/20] Dec. 5 call, the president for the first time mentioned challenging the election results in Congress. […]

    Possibly related to our conversation here: https://www.emptywheel.net/2022/01/28/john-durham-flew-to-italy-to-get-joseph-mifsuds-blackberries-but-never-walked-across-doj-to-obtain-james-bakers-phones/#comment-918967, including:

    [Future FALSE ELECTOR] [< added today] Lisa Vranicar Patton, who identifies herself as the Pennsylvania state events director for former President Trump’s 2020 campaign […]

    In a message posted to Twitter on December 4, 2020 [12/4/20], Patton posted pictures indicating she attended a private holiday party where she met former Vice President Mike Pence at his official residence. Eight days earlier [11/26/20], Patton made a post indicating she had just spent “the day” with former New York City Police Department Commissioner Bernard Kerik and Rep. Scott Perry (R-PA) […]

    [For some reason, I can’t pull up the original Hunter Walker article.]

  6. Steve says:

    OT – I’m not see the journalists I follow on Twitter (that have blue checks, I don’t) for J6 reporting so the “prioritization” has already started, I guess. Whatever that is.

  7. John Paul Jones says:

    I’m a bit confused by this:

    “Then, by Eastman’s telling, he directly told the then-President that Eastman had only said that returning votes to the states would be illegal. But that’s not what Eastman responded to! He responded to both, and did so in front of Trump.”

    Should that first Eastman (“Eastman’s telling”) be Pence (“by Pence’s telling”)?

    • obsessed says:

      While we’re clarifying sentences, the one below has my brain tied in knots. I’m pretty sure EW meant “protecting” rather than “projecting”, since the term “protective telling” comes up later, but even with that substitution I’m missing something and it seems very important:

      This passage, in particular, seems to project any testimony that Eastman knew the request of Pence was illegal onto Greg Jacob, not himself.

      It’s something to do with Pence’s manipulative way of presenting it, but I’m not sure if it’s Trump he’s trying to protect from some even more damning truth or whether he’s trying to protect the testimony of his allies, or … duhhh

      • Silly but True says:

        The problem in dealing with so many unreliable narrators, some (if not all) of whom may be lying comes in trying to assess motivation.

        We know Eastman is playing games. Fundamentally, Eastman’s schtick was to play Pence’s Constitutional duties under Constitution Art. 2, Sectiom 1: “…The Congress may determine the Time of chusing the Electors…”

        vs. 3 USC 15 in a sort of “unitary Congressional power” that could allow Pence in his Congressional counting role to “chuse” differently from the legislative preferences established by a previous Congress through a federal law.

        Eastman says it’s ripe for litigation because no case law exists.

        But Eastman ignores that’s because no one has been crazy enough before him to ever assert such a thing.

      • John Paul Jones says:

        Maybe use parentheses:

        “project any testimony (that Eastman knew the request [he was making] of Pence was illegal) onto Greg”

        Point being that Pence is essentially allowing (?) prosecutors to get the testimony they might need from Jacob rather than from himself. That way he hopes he will never have to try and duck a subpoena.

  8. Jay says:

    how does one square the ability of the michigan flint water defendants to waive privilege (albeit a different one) at a depo but not a trial with this analysis

  9. Katherine M Williams says:

    “At that I turned to the president, who was distracted, . . . the president replied, “I like the other thing better,”

    In short Trump was not paying attention. He wanted what he wanted, and that is all that mattered to him. Legal? Laws mean nothing to Trump. He’s always gotten away with breaking the law.

  10. Silly but True says:

    The key distinction as noted is that Pence isn’t under oath for anything included in his book, and it’s also generally accepted for biographies to fictionally composite people, places, things and events for various reasons such as compression or to service particular narratives, or to fictionally reorganize them out of precise chronology, or in fact to fictionalize identities for privacy,

    Until Pence is put under oath, these events are insightful in ways like OJ’s “If I Did It” might be insightful.

  11. bacchys says:

    There ought to some sanctions against Pence and his legal team for frivolous privilege claims. If he was arguing in court these conversations were covered by privilege even as he planned to publish them he wasted the court’s time.

    • timbo says:

      What asserted privileges are you talking about? Where has Pence yet asserted Executive Privilege when under legal compulsion to truthfully? Or are you talking about attorney-client privilege assertions? Do not conflate the two and do not assume things that are not in the record.

      Technically, only the President may assert Executive Privilege to avoid having Presidential advisors testify under oath about advice he, the President has received, in his capacity as President. As for the rest of Pence’s team that may have tried to avoid testifying by asserting EP, that only applies to conversations or advice to the President while in office, and those have to be in respect to the President’s official duties within the law, not outside the law. Again, the President must actively assert the privilege to stop advisors from testifying in a legal setting such as a grand jury or Congressional investigative Committee when under compulsion to testify truthfully, it is not something that stops people from writing books about converstations they’ve had with Presidents.

      On the issue of legal advice and attorney-client privilege, a client may wave such privilege at any time, and may be deemed to have done so if they’ve written a book about conversations they have had with their legal counsel. Making public statements about what advice one has received from counsel might also wave the right as far as I know.

      I’m not a lawyer. So you should consult a good one, well versed in the area of attorney-client privilege claims and case law, etc, before relying on newspapers and hearsay reports on how any legal invocations of various rights against testifying under legal compulsion/oath might work in a given setting/instance.

  12. punaise says:

    Sicked Pence None the Richer: There he goes, there he goes again

    Sixpence None the Richer (also known as Sixpence) is an American Christian alternative rock band that formed in New Braunfels, Texas, and eventually settled in Nashville, Tennessee. They are best known for their songs “Kiss Me” and “Breathe Your Name” and their covers of “Don’t Dream It’s Over” and “There She Goes”. The name of the band is inspired by a passage from the book Mere Christianity by C. S. Lewis.

  13. Jenny says:

    Pence claimed executive privilege, however wrote a book to sell with information the January 6th Committee could have used long ago. Money over country.

  14. ExRacerX says:

    Sitting with the Pres’dent
    Eying loopholes with bad intent
    Trump looking down his nose
    Greasy fingers smearing big/tall clothes

    Insurgents in the cold sun
    Swarming as the put-upon police run
    Feeling like a dead duck
    Spitting out pieces of his broken luck…

    Sun streaking cold
    A old Veep wandering lonely
    Taking time
    the only way he knows.
    Congress awaits,
    But the coup attempt’s moved the deadline
    He goes down to The Swamp
    and warms his feet…

    Apologies to Ian Anderson

    • Fran of the North says:

      Thanks for a great sendup of a seminal song by one of my all time faves. It was only after years of listening to this song that I had the insight: While it’s easy to see Aqualung as a pervert, he’s actually a pitiable character.

      Mike Pence?? Not so much.

    • punaise says:

      Really don’t mind if he sits this one out
      My words but a whisper his deafness a shout
      I may make him feeble but I can’t make him shrink
      His term’s in the gutter, history on the brink
      So you ride yourselves over the fields and
      You make all your animal deals and
      Your wise ass don’t know how it feels
      To be thick as a brick

      • Kennygauss says:

        Oh! You are bringing back so many memories for me! Not a good time to confuse with present situations?
        Ooooh uh!

      • ExRacerX says:

        Brilliant! Love that song/album!

        From side 2:

        With Depends pinching, Trump slumps in his armchair
        While munching on Big Macs and Diet Pepsi
        Whining, “Where’s my Roy Cohn?” and, “Why’d they vote Biden?”
        He reproaches Javanka for Joe’s electoral win…

  15. xbronx says:

    In a world of “tells” the most telling tell of all is this line which is remarkably revealing as to Trump’s biggest fear – “Trump… informed him (Pence) that, “People are gonna think you’re stupid,” for choosing not to claim the power to throw out votes.” “People are gonna think you’re stupid.” I’d bet this is etched, however symbolically, on his frontal lobe and on the insides of his eyelids. He carries it with him every second of every day.

  16. Susan D. Einbinder says:

    Can the book be used as testimony (is that the right term?) Or is that similar (and as dubious) as using rap lyrics to convince a jury that a rap singer is a criminal?

    • nedu says:

      At a guess, “testimony” is not the term you meant.

      But simply refining your question’s term(s) may or may not pose a more concretely-focused hypothetical. I rather suspect that, at best, you’re headed towards, “Well, it depends…”.

  17. harpie says:

    11/16/20 [Lunch mtg] TRUMP to PENCE: “2024 is so far off.”
    12/5/20 [phone] [“President for the first time mentioned challenging election results in Congress”.]
    12/XX/20 [Cabinet mtg] TRUMP to PENCE: [Lincoln Project ad] “looked bad for you.”
    [“I replied that it wasn’t true: I had fully supported the legal challenges to the election and would continue to do so.”]
    12/19/20 [Conversation] TRUMP / PENCE:
    [“president mentioned plans for a rally in Washington on Jan.6. I thought that would be useful to call attention to the proceedings. I had just spoken with a senator about the importance of vetting concerns about the election before Congress and the American people.[…]”]
    12/21/20 [Mtg at WH] [JORDAN leads “lawmakers in a discussion about plans to bring objections. I promised that all properly submitted objections would be recognized and fully debated.”]
    12/30/20 HAWLEY announces that he will co-sponsor election objections in Senate.
    [“I welcomed Sen. Hawley’s decision because it meant we would have a substantive debate. Without a senator’s support, I would have been required to dismiss House objections without debate, something I didn’t want to do.”]
    1/1/21 [Early] [Phone]

    TRUMP: “I don’t want to see ‘Pence Opposes Gohmert Suit’ as a headline this morning”
    PENCE: [“I told him I did oppose it.”]
    TRUMP: “If it gives you the power [] why would you oppose it?”
    PENCE: [“I told him, as I had many times, that I didn’t believe I possessed that power under the Constitution.”]
    TRUMP: “You’re too honest”[] “Hundreds of thousands are gonna hate your guts…People are gonna think you’re stupid.”

    1/2/21 [phone] TRUMP to PENCE: [if Pence] “wimp[ed] out” [he would be] “just another somebody.
    1/4/21 Oval Office mtg; Trump, Pence, Meadows, Eastman, “long list of attendees”
    [“Eastman claimed I had authority to return the votes to the states until each legislature certified which of the competing slate[s] of electors for the state was correct. […]”]

    PENCE: “Do you think I have the authority to reject or return votes?”
    EASTMAN: “Well, it’s never been tested in the courts, so I think it is an open question.”
    PENCE: “Mr. President, did you hear that? Even your lawyer doesn’t think I have the authority to return electoral votes.”
    TRUMP: “I like the other thing better”

    1/5/21 “Urgent” Oval Office mtg; Trump, Pence, Eastman, “other” TRUMP lawyers
    [“The president’s lawyers, including Mr. Eastman, were now requesting that I simply reject the electors.”]
    1/6/21 [“a little after”] 11:00 AM [phone call]

    PENCE: Despite the press release you issued last night” [] “I have always been forthright with you, Mr. President.”
    TRUMP: “You’ll go down as a wimp” [] “If you do that, I made a big mistake five years ago!” [] “You’re not protecting our country, you’re supposed to support and defend our country!”
    PENCE: “We both took an oath to support and defend the Constitution.”

    1/11/21 [meeting]

    TRUMP: “How are you?” [] “How are Karen and Charlotte?”
    [PENCE: we [a]re fine [] they [were] at the Capitol on Jan.6.]
    TRUMP: “I just learned that.” [] “Were you scared?”

    1/XX/21 [Oval Office] TRUMP to PENCE: “Don’t bother” [to pray for [me]]. [< Per ew]

    • harpie says:

      Some related dates:

      12/8/20: Project Lincoln releases ad:
      https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln/status/1336388939087691777
      2:15 PM · Dec 8, 2020

      @realDonaldTrump, the end is coming. Even @Mike_Pence knows. He’s running from away you, Donald. And on January 6th, @VP will preside over the vote proving @joebiden beat you. [VIDEO] [[…] Oh, there’s one last thing, Donald. On January, 6, Mike Pence will put the nail in your political coffin when he presides over the Senate vote to prove Joe Biden won. It’s over, and Mike Pence knows it]

      12/23/20 TRUMP pardons Manafort, Stone, C. Kushner, and 23 others
      12/23/20 TRUMP arrives late evening at Mar-a-Lago, planning to stay through 1/1/21

      12/27/20 GOHMERT sues PENCE
      [Plaintiffs ask Judge Jeremy Kernodle, a Trump-appt’d fed judge in Texas, to find that Pence is authorized to pick pro-Trump electors on Jan. 6]

      12/30/20 Steve BANNON convinces TRUMP to return to WH to prepare for 1/6/21

      BANNON: We’re going to bury Biden on January 6th, fucking bury him.

      12/30/20 WH announces that TRUMP will return to DC on 12/31 [1 day early]

      12/31/20 TRUMP arrives back at WH early from vacation at BANNON’s urging

      1/1/21 GOHMERT’s 12/27/20 lawsuit DISMISSED for lack of standing. He files an appeal to SCOTUS on 1/6/21

      1/6/21 GOHMERT files an appeal to SCOTUS after his 12/27/20 lawsuit was DISMISSED on 1/1/21 for lack of standing

  18. harpie says:

    I think I’ll spread out these TL entries a bit, so we can discuss them more easily.
    There will be some added excerpts from Pence’s book, designated by: ***

    11/16/20 [Lunch mtg] TRUMP to PENCE: “2024 is so far off.”

    • harpie says:

      12/5/20 [phone] [“President for the first time mentioned challenging election results in Congress”.]

      12/8/20 Project Lincoln releases ad: [Link above]

      @realDonaldTrump, the end is coming. Even @Mike_Pence knows. He’s running from away you, Donald. And on January 6th, @VP will preside over the vote proving @joebiden beat you. [VIDEO] [[…] Oh, there’s one last thing, Donald. On January, 6, Mike Pence will put the nail in your political coffin when he presides over the Senate vote to prove Joe Biden won. It’s over, and Mike Pence knows it]

      12/XX/20 [Cabinet mtg] TRUMP to PENCE: [Lincoln Project ad] “looked bad for you.”
      [“I replied that it wasn’t true: I had fully supported the legal challenges to the election and would continue to do so.”]
      ***[“To my knowledge, it was the first time anyone implied I might be able to change the outcome. It was designed to annoy the president. It worked.”]

    • harpie says:

      12/19/20 [Conversation] TRUMP / PENCE:
      [“president mentioned plans for a rally in Washington on Jan.6. I thought that would be useful to call attention to the proceedings. I had just spoken with a senator about the importance of vetting concerns about the election before Congress and the American people.[…]”]

      • harpie says:

        12/17/20 Washington Examiner publishes: Peter Navarro releases 36-page report alleging election fraud ‘more than sufficient’ to swing victory to Trump

        12/18/20 11:42 PM ‘CRAZIEST meeting” of the TRUMP presidency ENDS.
        Powell, Flynn, Byrne [< 1st Amendment Praetorian personnel drive them there, Navarro aide Ziegler lets them in], Giuliani, Trump, Emily Newman, Cipollone, Herschman

        [NYT]: Byrne, Flynn and Powell then made their case directly to the president about the options he had at his disposal, including Flynn’s suggested use of the National Guard and U.S. marshals. According to Byrne, Powell handed Trump a packet that included previous executive orders issued by President Barack Obama and by Trump that the group believed established a precedent for a new executive order, [written on 12/16/20] one that would use supposed foreign interference in the election as a justification for deploying the military. In this operation, Byrne added, Flynn could serve as Trump’s “field marshal.”

        12/19/20 1:42 AM TRUMP tweets:

        Peter Navarro releases 36-page report alleging election fraud ‘more than sufficient’ to swing victory to Trump [link to 12/17/20 Washington Examiner article]
        A great report by Peter. Statistically impossible to have lost the 2020 Election.

        Big protest in D.C. on January 6th. Be there, will be wild!

      • harpie says:

        12/15/20 Carissa Keshel sends an e-mail on behalf of General FLYNN asking a Michigan sheriff to seize voting machines
        12/16/20 DRAFT EXECUTIVE ORDER written
        [It is discussed at the 12/18/20 “craziest mtg”, see above]

        FLYNN to WALDRON, KERIK and FRIESS [5:50 PM]
        I reviewed. Fix the spelling error in the title. Ensure it gets a legal review, but this is ready to go from my standpoint. Thanks for getting the key points in.

        12/16/20 THREE PERCENTERs say they “stand ready and [are] standing by” [] “to answer the call from our President” and they “are ready to enter into battle with General FLYNN leading the charge.”

    • harpie says:

      12/21/20 [Mtg at WH] [JORDAN leads “lawmakers in a discussion about plans to bring objections. I promised that all properly submitted objections would be recognized and fully debated.”]

    • harpie says:

      12/23/20 TRUMP pardons Manafort, Stone, C. Kushner, and 23 others
      12/23/20 TRUMP arrives late evening at Mar-a-Lago, planning to stay through 1/1/21

    • harpie says:

      12/27/20 GOHMERT sues PENCE
      [Plaintiffs ask Judge Jeremy Kernodle, a Trump-appt’d fed judge in Texas, to find that Pence is authorized to pick pro-Trump electors on Jan. 6]

      12/30/20 HAWLEY announces that he will co-sponsor election objections in Senate.
      [“I welcomed Sen. Hawley’s decision because it meant we would have a substantive debate. Without a senator’s support, I would have been required to dismiss House objections without debate, something I didn’t want to do.”]

      12/30/20 Steve BANNON convinces TRUMP to return to WH to prepare for 1/6/21

      12/30/20 WH announces that TRUMP will return to DC on 12/31 [1 day early]

      • harpie says:

        12/30/20 TRUMP/BANNON phone call:
        [Bannon from his “townhouse [and TV studio] on Capitol Hill”, Trump at Mara Lago]]

        TRUMP ranted about how Republicans were not doing enough to keep him in power.
        BANNON told Trump to focus on January 6. That was the moment for a reckoning. [] If Republicans could cast enough of a shadow on Biden’s victory on January 6, Bannon said, 1] it would be hard for Biden to govern. 2] Millions of Americans would consider him illegitimate. 3] They would ignore him. 4] They would dismiss him and wait for Trump to run again.

        “You’ve got to return to Washington and make a dramatic return today” [] “You’ve got to call Pence off the fucking ski-slopes and get him back here today. This is a crisis” [] “People are going to go, ‘What the fuck is going on here?’” [] “We’re going to bury Biden on January 6th, fucking bury him” [] “We are going to kill the Biden Presidency in the crib” []

        12/XX/20 [Late December] while PENCE is on vacation in Vail, his aides receive a request from AZ GOP chair Kelli WARD for PENCE to meet with POWELL. [B]

    • harpie says:

      12/31/20 TRUMP arrives back at WH early from vacation at BANNON’s urging

      1/1/21 [Early] [Phone]

      TRUMP: “I don’t want to see ‘Pence Opposes Gohmert Suit’ as a headline this morning”
      PENCE: [“I told him I did oppose it.”]
      TRUMP: “If it gives you the power [] why would you oppose it?”
      PENCE: [“I told him, as I had many times, that I didn’t believe I possessed that power under the Constitution.”]
      TRUMP: “You’re too honest”[] “Hundreds of thousands are gonna hate your guts…People are gonna think you’re stupid.”

      1/1/21 GOHMERT’s 12/27/20 lawsuit DISMISSED for lack of standing. He files an appeal to SCOTUS on 1/6/21

      1/2/21 [phone] TRUMP to PENCE: [if Pence] “wimp[ed] out” [he would be] “just another somebody.”

      • harpie says:

        12/31/20 MEADOWS sends memo to SHORT with a detailed plan for undoing the election, written by Jenna ELLIS [C]

        1/1/21 MCENTEE sends memo to SHORT: “JEFFERSON USED HIS POSITION AS VP TO WIN.” [B]

    • harpie says:

      1/4/21 Oval Office mtg; Trump, Pence, Meadows, Eastman, “long list of attendees”
      [“Eastman claimed I had authority to return the votes to the states until each legislature certified which of the competing slate[s] of electors for the state was correct.] *** [I had already confirmed that there were no competing electors.]

      PENCE: “Do you think I have the authority to reject or return votes?”
      EASTMAN: “Well, it’s never been tested in the courts, so I think it is an open question.”
      PENCE: “Mr. President, did you hear that? Even your lawyer doesn’t think I have the authority to return electoral votes.”
      TRUMP: “I like the other thing better”

      • harpie says:

        CHESEBRO email:

        1/4/21 8:51 PM MST
        CHESEBRO to EASTMAN:
        Subject: Fwd: Draft 2, with edits
        Attachment(s): “2020-11-18 Chesebro memo on real deadlines [dot] pdf”
        Here’s the dec 13 email with 12A at end
        [SEE: [link at comment] [Exhibit A: [p2/6]]

      • harpie says:

        1/4/21 TRUMP at GA rally: “I hope Mike Pence comes through for us,”[] “I have to tell you I hope that our great vice president comes through for us. He’s a great guy. Of course, if he doesn’t come through, I won’t like him quite as much.” [C]

    • harpie says:

      1/5/21 “Urgent” Oval Office mtg; Trump, Pence, Eastman, “other” TRUMP lawyers
      [“The president’s lawyers, including Mr. Eastman, were now requesting that I simply reject the electors.”] ***[I later learned that Mr. Eastman had conceded to my general counsel [JACOB] that rejecting electoral votes was a bad idea and any attempt to do so would be quickly overturned by a unanimous Supreme Court. This guy didn’t even believe what he was telling the president.]

    • harpie says:

      1/6/21 GOHMERT files an appeal to SCOTUS after his 12/27/20 lawsuit was DISMISSED on 1/1/21 for lack of standing

      1/6/21 [“a little after”] 11:00 AM [phone call]

      PENCE: Despite the press release you issued last night” [] “I have always been forthright with you, Mr. President.”

      TRUMP: “You’ll go down as a wimp” [] “If you do that, I made a big mistake five years ago!” [] “You’re not protecting our country, you’re supposed to support and defend our country!”

      PENCE: “We both took an oath to support and defend the Constitution.”

    • harpie says:

      1/11/21 [meeting]

      TRUMP: “How are you?” [] “How are Karen and Charlotte?”
      [PENCE: we [a]re fine [] they [were] at the Capitol on Jan.6.]
      TRUMP: “I just learned that.” [] “Were you scared?”
      *** [I said, “Those people who broke into the Capitol might’ve been supporters, but they are not our movement.” For five years, we had both spoken to crowds of the most patriotic, law-abiding, God-fearing people in the country.]

      1/XX/21 [Oval Office] TRUMP to PENCE: “Don’t bother” [to pray for [me]]. [< Per ew]

    • harpie says:

      I see I didn’t plan this so well… :-{
      The November [or earlier] entries will go here.

      11/16/20 [Lunch mtg] TRUMP to PENCE: “2024 is so far off.”

      • harpie says:

        11/18/20 Kenneth CHESEBRO writes: “2020-11-18 Chesebro memo on real deadlines.pdf” to James TROUPIS, a Trump campaign lawyer in Wisconsin.

        [William Ockham comment: https://www.emptywheel.net/2022/06/06/quoting-enrique-tarrio-invoking-the-winter-palace-doj-charges-the-proud-boys-with-sedition/#comment-939977 ]

        11/XX/20 “A few weeks after Election Day on Nov. 3, 2020, aides to Mr. Pence learned that some in Mr. Trump’s loose network of advisers were discussing the possibility of Jan. 6, 2021 — set under statute as the day of the Electoral College certification — as a potentially critical date in Mr. Trump’s efforts to stay in power. Soon, Mr. Pence asked his general counsel, Greg JACOB, to write a memo explaining what his powers were during the certification. [B]

        1/4/21 8:51 PM MST
        CHESEBRO to EASTMAN:
        Subject: Fwd: Draft 2, with edits
        Attachment(s): “2020-11-18 Chesebro memo on real deadlines [dot] pdf”
        Here’s the dec 13 email with 12A at end
        [SEE: [link at comment] [Exhibit A: [p2/6]]

        [harpie comment:
        https://www.emptywheel.net/2022/06/02/must-see-tv-house-january-6-committee-hearings-begin-june-9-at-800-pm/#comment-939580 ]

      • harpie says:

        From above:

        11/5/20
        – ROY to MEADOWS: We have no tools / data / information to go out and fight RE: election / fraud. If you need / want it, we all need to know what’s going on. Fwiw…

        [< -M: Thanks so much. Working on it for surrogates briefing. Congratulations btw
        < – R: Roger. Yessir, thx. Now let's hold GA, & take az & pa!
        < -M: Amen]

        11/5/20
        9:12 AM TRUMP Tweets: STOP THE COUNT!
        Minutes before” 12:51 PM Conservative radio host Mark LEVIN tweets an idea similar to JUNIOR DON’s [below], and that state legislatures have final say on electors.
        12:51 PM JUNIOR DON text to MEADOWS: “It’s very simple” [] “We have multiple paths We control them all.” [] [< lots more there]

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