SDNY Showed Probable Cause Rudy Giuliani Was Criming While He Represented Trump in the Russian Investigation
In August, the Special Master reviewing Rudy Giuliani and Victoria Toensing’s seized phone contents for privilege determinations, Barbara Jones, publicly filed notice of a conflict between the Trumpsters and the government: how to apply the date range in the warrants.
There is a dispute between Mr. Giuliani and the Government over whether the Special Master’s review process should be limited to materials with electronic metadata within the date range set forth in the search warrants. Mr. Giuliani argues for such a date range limitation; the Government argues against it. I have informed the parties that the issue should be briefed to, and decided by, the Court, and that I would set a briefing schedule for Mr. Giuliani’s motion.
On Thursday, Judge Paul Oetken released his decision deciding the matter. Effectively, he adopted the government’s compromise that it exclude everything that pre-dates 2018.
On June 9, 2021, this Court appointed the Honorable Barbara S. Jones (Ret.) as Special Master to “render decisions regarding privilege issues relating to the materials seized in the execution of certain search warrants” that are the subject of this matter. (Dkt. No. 25.) Giuliani and Toensing ask the Court to restrict the Special Master’s review to the time periods set forth in the search warrants: August 1, 2018 to December 31, 2019 for Giuliani; and January 1, 2019 to December 31, 2019 for Toensing.
The Government has proposed a compromise that significantly limits the scope of the parties’ dispute: it consents to the Special Master’s excluding from her review any documents that clearly and entirely predate 2018. The Court approves this compromise and directs the Special Master to proceed accordingly.
But Oetken notes that the warrants permit the government to determine what materials are responsive to the warrant, meaning Jones should not determine anything further than what is privileged. And he laid out that the warrants permit the government to access materials that were deleted (or accessed, sent, or modified) between — for Rudy — August 1, 2018 and December 31, 2019.
Third, the warrants cover materials “sent, received, posted, created, or otherwise accessed, established, modified, or deleted during [the time range].” It is entirely possible that a document “dated” outside the time range may have been “accessed,” “sent,” “modified,” or “deleted” during the time range. Moreover, the warrants permit review of any of the seized material “if necessary to evaluate its contents and to locate all data responsive to the warrant.” See, e.g., United States v. Gatto, 313 F. Supp. 3d 551, 561 (S.D.N.Y. 2018).
The timeline here is consistent with what I intuited in this post — and, based on what Lev Parnas and others previously revealed, it clarifies the exact date range of the files obtained in November 2019. The Rudy range covers eight months of the period when he was representing Donald Trump in the Russian investigation, goes through the period when (Parnas has earlier alleged) people started deleting files during Trump’s first impeachment, and continues through the meeting Rudy had with Andrii Derkach in December 2019.
And unsurprisingly, the government obtained warrants covering the same period of the earlier search on the parties’ iCloud accounts by providing probable cause to show that they were deleting and modifying earlier files, even files from earlier in 2018, to include the period when both lawyers were pitching a means to represent Trump.
But it’s clear that Rudy and Toensing worry the government may find evidence of crimes that exceeds this timeline, which would give them the opportunity to obtain new warrants with a broader timeframe. That’s because they asked Oetken to force the government to delete everything else.
Finally, the Court denies Giuliani’s and Toensing’s request to order the Government to return or destroy any material at this time.
Oetken denied this request. This means materials that predate these warrants, but also materials from more recently, when Rudy was laundering Russian disinformation and making wildly false claims about the election results, would remain available for further search, if the government can or has demonstrated probable cause.
We’ll learn more about this next week. Oetken also ruled that the letters disputing all this, including those from Dmitro Firtash, will be docketed after the parties fight over redactions.
Looks like the wheels of justice are grinding, somewhat slow bit mighty fine. As it should be, though I would prefer a bit more speed, and that is difficult with reluctant recalcitrant offenders.
Adam Klasfeld is reporting the next hearing in Weisselberg case today:
https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/status/1439938677837234178
9:05 AM · Sep 20, 2021
That “clearly” and “entirely” ought to worry Rudy just a smidgeon.
Perhaps I’m being more dense than usual, but does the restriction on the Special Master’s review mean that the pre-2018 communications, etc. would be open for prosecutors or closed off as evidence?
She will only eliminate from possibility the stuff that is entirely pre-2018 and/or stuff after that that is privileged.
If there’s an email thread that starts in 2017 but continues until later, or one that is forwarded, prosecutors can get to it if it’s not privileged.
I am curious about email that someone might have replied to, in 2018, but may have included long threads of replied-to email from 2017 at the bottom of the reply (or am I the only person who sees ping-ponged email threads that are top-posted, go on for weeks or months, and never trimmed so that the oldest emails in the thread are still being included?)
My assumption is that under these warrants and this review process, the government should not see the pre-2018 information from the seized devices. The point of my comment was that information that overlaps that cut-off date would be potentially subject to disclosure.
If the government independently finds probable cause, however, it should have access to that earlier information, so long as it’s not subject to a legitimate privilege claim.
Thanks to both for this clarification. However, given how much is already known about Russian interference in the 2016 election as well as how there are potential connections between Rudy and the Russians then, why would those actions be off the table? Is there so much more to hammer from 2018 onward that there is no need to look at 2016?
This part of the process is only about what’s on the specific digital devices seized under warrant from Rudy and Toensing. That doesn’t bar the DoJ from using pre-2018 evidence from other sources, so long as there’s a legal basis to obtain and use it, and that it’s relevant to the charges.
The warrants are about specific, potentially criminal, actions–not the global idea that Giuliani/Trump/Toensing crimed or conspired. Those actions seem to be in the midst of the strongarming of Ukraine/first impeachment of Trump. So those are why the timelines are there. Now, if these dinguses were forwarding 2016/2017 stuff that can be used as evidence of conspiracy with the Russians to violate election laws, or cover up crimes, then it opens up new vistas. But that’s not the case that SDNY is currently pursuing.
The way I’m reading it, even if a thread containing only pre-range messages and topics was simply deleted during the period allowed by the ruling, it’s fair game for prosecutors.
I think that’s right:
Right: And these warrants were obtained in significant part because Rudy and Lev were deleting things in October 2019 when impeachment made their earlier actions more important.
I suspect DOJ now has reason to go further back. Thing is, DOJ could have ALREADY obtained warrants to search earlier or later stuff (which is precisely what happened with Trump’s last personal lawyer who was prosecuted).
How much of Parnas’ evidence could be leveraged here? How long until Rudy yaps about something that points to earlier events (I would think that establishes a reason to dig)?
I rather expect that DOJ developed probable cause to search communications from years <2018 just from the information they have harvested from their previous warrant for his cloud.
Eh, maybe, but warrants are supposed to be narrowly tailored. And prior to that time arguably is not as to what is at issue as to putatively pertinent criminal offenses.
The DOJ is not moving anywhere near rapidly enough in the direction of protecting America’s Constitutional order (aka dealing with Trump & his followers’ election interference and sedition). Sure, there have been things which can, to a degree, be tolerated in their present insufficiency, but there has been precious little follow-through (apparently not one subpoena issued in follow-up to simple congressional “evidence hold” letters that generated artificial media heart palpitations on the part of target Republican traitors?).
But they’ve got to be running out of time for the “we wouldn’t want to appear rash or ‘ungenteel'” deflections. There’s a system of government and a rule of law to save and to repair, and there isn’t unlimited time.
The slack afforded Sullivan these past months has now — if nothing else — established just how low the rethug faction is willing to set the bar for indictments, however. The best Sullivan could come up with plainly reminds one of nothing more than the old saw “you can indict a ham sandwich”. But the clear evidence surrounding the calculated and fraudulent attacks on the 2020 election vastly exceeds that low bar.
Garland & Co. should take their cue and start the Sedition, Felonies and Consequences Train rolling in earnest. Get some indictments out there. Georgia, New York, J6, there’s dozens more on apparent back burners due to what? Comity? NYT clucking? Fear of Manchin? COVID deniers? None of these are excusable grounds for continued inaction.
Nonsense, they are doing fine. Nearly 650 defendants have been charged, and about 75 have already pled out. There is an absolutely stunning amount of evidence and disclosure to deal with. DOJ is moving along fine. It is literally moving at warp speed for a large conspiracy investigation and prosecution. And I would not hold my breath for seditious conspiracy charges. There may be a few filed, but it would be controversial and more difficult to prove up than standard obstruction and conspiracy charges that have the same sentencing consequences. In short, DOJ is doing fine.
Durham?
I’m shocked and horrified to see Ed Sullivan caught up in this.
It’s gonna be a “really big shoe” when it drops.
‘The slack afforded Sullivan these past months has now — if nothing else — established just how low the rethug faction is willing to set the bar for indictments, however. The best Sullivan could come up with plainly reminds one of nothing more than the old saw “you can indict a ham sandwich”.’
Do you mean John Durham???
Zirc
Keep in mind that most all of that “slack” was built into Durham’s status intentionally by Barr. It was a monkey wrench. Could Garland have short circuited it? I think so, but it would have gotten really ugly. His case against Sussmann is complete shit. We will see, but it may have been smart to let it play out (although Sussmann probably disagrees).
I’m pretty sure Sussman minds the expense and the concern over how Trumpy the judge is that he’ll get, but as far as the actual case goes the chatter is pretty universal that Durham threw this dreck out there to justify his five years’ worth of wasted time. The tell will be how much airplay it gets on the RWNM and what’s being said.
I understand that the case is weak, but, yes, I’d rather not be in Sussman’s shoes.
Zirc
Judge Sullivan letting this play out limits opportunities for the defendants to claim unfair treatment, and Sullivan knows he has the last word here.
Until I start seeing prosecutions getting time-limited like Durham’s did I’d rather see preparation that will make charges stick. As time goes on DJT’s circle of movement will get smaller starting with the reports today regarding the Weisselberg trial. When DJT gets his time in a barrel he just might have no friends left.
‘When DJT gets his time in a barrel he just might have no friends left.”
You are right. DJT won’t have any friends, just people who’ll take advantage of the guy whose barrel time has come. He isn’t going to like it.
But I am going to like it, I am going to enjoy a healthy diet of schadenfreude. I know it isn’t the end with Trump’s ouster from office, his prosecution, or even his death; he forged a path for other tyrants who are smarter than he (pretty much everyone) and whose tactics are less crude and obvious (again, pretty much everyone) to take power by force.
Still, I am going to enjoy any consequences hitting Team Tump and the little Trumpistas, Don Jr, Ivanka, and Eric. To the extent the Calamaris or the Weisselbergs or the Jared Kushner’s in the world get taken down with TFG, so much the better.
FWIW, Eric Trump’s civil lawyer just quit, no reason given. He still has a criminal lawyer retained…
https://www.forbes.com/sites/zacheverson/2021/09/21/eric-trumps-attorney-in-new-york-state-attorney-generals-suit-quits/
[FYI, link edited to remove tracking. /~Rayne]
[Rayne: Oops. Thanks.]
NBD. Forbes and IIRC Fortune tack unique session IDs on URLs as readers open them.
For anyone else reading this: When you select all/cut/paste the URL from sites like Forbes, the session ID appended to the URL tells them YOU (your PC and network) came here, and anyone clicking on it from here is associated. Icky. You can simply strip the session ID off the URL to eliminate that tracking. Not to be confused with sites like ABC News which assigns a number to their stories and not to sessions; you can test stripping ID numbers off URLs, worse that will happen is a 404.
Trump is in yet another meltdown over the multiple indictment phase of the NY investigation. Add the GA investigation and Jan 6 Commission on top of that and I’m watching for spontaneous toxic combustion.
https://youtu.be/VLMF5GM0Kt8
A conclusion devoutly to be wished.
that’s the real origin of the phrase: auto-da-fire.
Uh, yeah, that’s the ticket…. Spelled Sullivan right, at least. Sorry. I meant the guy that looks like Wilford Brimley.
I’m an impatient old man and not really optimistic about the current system of justice (players on the federal investigation and prosecution side and ultimately the federal court system) holding anyone in the leadership of this rolling coup accountable primarily because of the pardons and the statute of limitations. So my question is: are the pardons to Flynn, Stone and Manafort limited so that information outside the parameters that comes up in investigations could be used to charge any of ’em with anything? I do agree with bmaz that “the system” is working as intended and that’s the reason for my pessimism.
The understanding I have gained from the emminent people here is that the pardons were very limited.
I’m trying to be patient, and trying not to test Bmaz’s patience. ;-) But I thought I would chime in here with this :
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/09/21/epik-far-right-hack-anonymous/
Given the content of this leak, it could probably help tie together a lot of the ongoing investigations – but how, and does this, get incorporated in any way? And what happens when you’ve made deals with the various people that have already been prosecuted only to find out they were blowing smoke up your a&*es? And for those ongoing, does this end up helping, or lengthening the time now that they have more info to dig through?
or is this a nothing burger?
The breach is massive — it’s a lot of material to comb through. It will likely contain material relevant given the identities whose data has been disclosed (like Ali Alexander), but it’s going to take time and resources to determine how the Epik content will affect numerous investigations.
I don’t know, but having some hacker twatwaffles supposedly steal and release things does not necessarily help in any short term. Frankly it might even hurt. Prosecuting the 1/6 cases is not some kind of internet serial pod joyride.
“Prosecuting the 1/6 cases is not some kind of internet serial pod joyride.”
Indeed it’s not, it’s been the continuing sharp stick in the ass of all the federal investigators from day 1!!
Since tech legislation appears to be on the tip of everyone’s tongue lately, perhaps the massive Epik demographic will help inform the US Congress about how to effectively prune the poison fruit of Big Tech so that the most vulnerable public doesn’t easily consume it.
The frustrating part of this is that a coup can travel around the world and back again while the courts are lacing up their boots.
1/5/21 TRUMP tries to convince PENCE to overturn the next day’s certification. One meeting was with John EASTMAN who argued PENCE did have the power to act.
Here’s the MEMO http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2021/images/09/20/eastman.memo.pdf
[Via: [Christian Vanderbrouk] https://twitter.com/UrbanAchievr/status/1440062663967461387 5:17 PM · Sep 20, 2021]
They’ve never left. But they will be back. Coup addiction is worse than nicotine.
It seems less likely to be fatal than nicotine addiction, though.
Julian Sanchez: IF Eastman’s fantasy plays out and Pence declares Trump reelected, there would be a mob on hand for backup, and Marcy notes:
https://twitter.com/emptywheel/status/1440254859236626452
6:01 AM · Sep 21, 2021
Did they make it easy and all wear the requisite arm bands and brown shirts?
More of a,
‘ ..let’s recruit Pence to be our Quisling…’
type move.
They had the Josh Hawley salute. Or maybe that was just him.
EASTMAN traveled from the WILLARD Hotel to the 1/6/21 rally with Rudy GIULIANI:
https://www.emptywheel.net/2021/02/03/the-january-6-investigation-remains-in-an-early-stage/#comment-881437
Both EASTMAN and GIULIANI were among the speakers:
https://www.emptywheel.net/2021/02/08/in-his-impeachment-defense-trump-spends-five-times-as-long-not-addressing-the-mike-pence-allegations/#comment-882266
Hey harpie – it dawned on me that we might be able to stitch all your work together more easily into a single timeline if you use a hashtag at the end of your comments. Maybe #Jan6Timeline?
Sure, I could do that…maybe #J6TL, and I would maybe put that only on the first comment of each set of threaded comments.
About 2 months ago, I started a folder in WORD with all the comments. If you’re interested, I’ll [try to] send it to your e-mail.
Super – I’ll watch for the document, thanks! I’ll put it in Google Docs so that it can be shared for collaboration.
“questionable constitionality” is an interesting word for Rudy to be uttering. I’m pretty sure that it is of “questionable constitutionality” to get a crowd of seditionists ginned up for a riot that trashes the Capitol building myself… when one can’t think of anything else. These guys decided that it was good to get a crowd fired up and angry to descend on the Congress during an electoral vote count by the Congress, claiming that they and not the Congress had more of a preeminent right to decide what and how >Congress should be running itself<. There certainly seems to be a conspiracy afoot here that is of "questionable constitutionality" by the Twitler and his gang and they were and are pretty open about it.
Looking back, why wasn't this document entered into evidence during Trump's second impeachment trial? Seems like it was conveniently was missing from the trial… as it would be good evidence that there was a conspiracy to attack the Congress if they didn't do what the Twisslerings wanted… and that that actually came to pass.
Thanks, Harpie.
Your comments are quite helpful to those of us who aren’t on top of this material each day.
According to Meidas Touch and Occupy Democrats on Instagram, Eric Trumps attorney for the AG civil lawsuit in NY against the Trump Org., has just quit.
See link to Forbes article about this in my post above at 7:46 p.m.
#J6TL
EASTMAN
12/8/20 EASTMAN pushes Texas lawsuit on FOX
12/9/20 TRUMP and 17 states want SCOTUS to let them join Texas suit; brief is signed by EASTMAN
12/10/20 EASTMAN again touts Texas lawsuit on FOX
12/11/20
3:28 PM TRUMP tweets: If the Supreme Court shows great Wisdom and Courage, the American People will win perhaps the most important case in history, and our Electoral Process will be respected again!
5:30 PM [approx] SCOTUS DISMISSES Texas v Pennsylvania for lack of standing
11:50 PM TRUMP tweets: The Supreme Court really let us down. No Wisdom, No Courage!
1/2/21 On BANNON’s show, EASTMAN details his ideas for 1/6. [For more about MEMO, see 1/5/21]
1/5/21 TRUMP tries to convince PENCE to overturn the next day’s certification. One meeting was with John EASTMAN who argued PENCE did have the power to act. Here’s the MEMO http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2021/images/09/20/eastman.memo.pdf
1/5/21 Former Judge LUTTIG tweets:
https://twitter.com/judgeluttig/status/1346469787329646592
9:53 AM · Jan 5, 2021
PENCE will quote this section exactly in his 1/6 letter to Congress.
1/6/21
10:00 AM EASTMAN and GUILIANI travel from WILLARD Hotel to RALLY
10:48 AM GUILIANI and then EASTMAN speak at RALLY
12:00 TRUMP begins speech at RALLY
1:00 PM [approx.]
1:02 PM PENCE tweets letter to Congress, quoting LUTTIG:
Marcy:
Just before 6:00 PM EASTMAN was on BANNON’s show again, claiming that PENCE was “exaggerating what the request was” for him to do and argued that the vice president had ignored his “constitutional obligation not to allow our Constitution to be shredded by allowing illegally cast electoral votes to decide the election.”
1] Pence letter: https:// [broken] twitter [link broken here].com/Mike_Pence/status/1346879811151605762
1:02 PM · Jan 6, 2021
2] Marcy quote:
https://www.emptywheel.net/2021/07/08/proud-boy-ucc-1s-work-ethic-saved-him-from-a-felony-charge/
3] Other info:
https://www.mediamatters.org/fox-news/trump-lawyer-john-eastman-touted-his-plan-overturn-2020-election-interviews-right-wing
Also:
1:02 PM Rhodes to Minuta Call 1:48
https://www.emptywheel.net/2021/04/02/the-grand-theft-golf-cart-conspiracy-doj-backed-off-charges-against-roberto-minuta/#comment-887755
Also:
12:58 PM Minuta to Rhodes Call 1: 11
https://www.emptywheel.net/2021/04/02/the-grand-theft-golf-cart-conspiracy-doj-backed-off-charges-against-roberto-minuta/#comment-887719
A visual:
https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1346879740750262280
1:02 PM · Jan 6, 2021
1:00 PM Split screen of
a] Trump putting massive pressure on Pence to try to overthrow the election while
b] Pence gets ready for the joint session [PHOTO]
Nice work, very nice.
:-)
The lawsuit TRUMP and 17 states filed with SCOTUS on 12/9/20 is signed by EASTMAN, but here’s a thread about metadata that show who wrote it:
https://twitter.com/ariehkovler/status/1336786099000238080
4:33 PM · Dec 9, 2020
Nice find.
These were the first two entries in an early timeline:
https://www.emptywheel.net/2021/01/28/tunnels-and-trump-the-missing-details-in-the-oath-keeper-conspiracy/#comment-880493
I can’t find the exact quote for the WH departure time. It was probably in a “live-update” that got rewritten into this article by Maggie Haberman:
Trump Told Crowd ‘You Will Never Take Back Our Country With Weakness’ As Congress prepared to certify the victory of his successor, President Trump railed against the election and helped set in motion hours of violence.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/06/us/politics/trump-speech-capitol.html Published Jan. 6, 2021 Updated Jan. 15, 2021
So, I guess…IF Trump left later than expected for the rally, it may have been because he had been talking to, and reacting/retaliated against what Pence had told him.
And…I JUST found it…arrrgggg!
https://twitter.com/Kevinliptakcnn/status/1346859211993575424
[CNN White House reporter]
11:40 AM · Jan 6, 2021
So I guess his planned departure time had been 10:50 AM
https://twitter.com/ThePlumLineGS/status/1441183277436452867
7:30 PM · Sep 23, 2021
SELECT COMMITTEE SUBPOENAS INDIVIDUALS TIED TO THE FORMER PRESIDENT IN THE DAYS SURROUNDING JANUARY 6TH
https://january6th.house.gov/news/press-releases/select-committee-subpoenas-individuals-tied-former-president-days-surrounding
Sep 23, 2021
[quote] […] [Select Committee] hearby transmits a subpoena that compels you to produce the documents set forth in the accompanying schedule by October 7, 2021, and to appear for a deposition on October 14, 2021 [for Bannon and Patel] October 15, 2021 [for Meadows and Scavino] […] This inquiry includes examination of how various individuals and entities coordinated their activities leading up to the events of January 6, 2021 […] [end quote]
I feel like I should have bolded the word COORDINATED
Some of the “individuals and entities” mentioned:
PATEL: White House; senior DOD officials; Meadows
BANNON: Members of Congress; Trump
MEADOWS: Trump and others; highest officials at the DoJ; several state officials; organizers, including Amy KREMER
SCAVINO: Trump and others; White House
PATEL letter:
PATEL letter [following directly]
BANNON letter:
MEADOWS letter:
SCAVINO letter:
So…on
1/5/21 MEETING at the WILLARD Hotel focused on how to convince members of Congress to commit to NOT certifying the election. BANNON is at the meeting.
Also,
1/5/21 MEETING at the WHITE HOUSE, during which TRUMP, SCAVINO and others consider “how to convince members of Congress not to certify the election”.
As I mentioned in the TL, EASTMAN and GIULIANI [and btw, also STONE] were filmed outside the WILLARD around 10 AM on 1/6.
Also, there’s a photo of
Alex JONES outside the WILLARD on 1/5 evening.
Also, this ew tweet in her thread about OK JAMES and MINUTA and the Grand Theft Golf Cart Conspiracy:
https://twitter.com/emptywheel/status/1380521500629929985
10:02 AM · Apr 9, 2021
That’s MINUTA, who had phone calls with RHODES at 12:58 PM and 1:02 PM on 1/6/21. [See above]
If Hobby Lobby illegally obtained that Gilgamesh tablet fragment from Isis, how is that not, among other crimes, aiding and abetting terrorism?
https://twitter.com/ChrisInParis/status/1441029754975502350
If so, that is a fair question. Subject to any statute of limitation concerns.
When would the SoL clock start? When Hobby Lobby became aware of the source or when the government made the connection?
I would assume it’s the date HL purportedly “purchased” the tablet. HL sure as hell knew it wasn’t obtaining this object with a verified provenance from Sotheby’s. But obtaining an object from an illegal source isn’t sufficient to establish HL knew it was Isis.
That would be my assumption as well. And, yes, exactly as to knowledge and intent. Best guess is they probably got it from a sketchy antiquities dealer, but who knows? The relevant SOL would depend on how it is charged, but 5 and 8 years are possibilities. 5 is gone, 8 would be very close. I would bet there is zero interest at DOJ for taking this on.
But if JHWH has any say in the matter, people will fry.