Impeachment Hearings: Day 5 – A Tough Hill Ahead?

/171 Comments/in , , /by

[NB: Updates to this post will appear at the bottom. /~Rayne]

The last of this week’s scheduled hearings begins at 9:00 a.m. ET. Here’s the schedule according to NPR:

Thursday, one panel only at 9 a.m. ET

  • Fiona Hill, formerly the top Russia specialist on the National Security Council, testified last month that she registered concerns about the parallel foreign policy channel that Giuliani was using to impact policy in Ukraine. She told investigators that she discussed her concerns with then-National Security Adviser John Bolton, who said that Giuliani was “a hand grenade that is going to blow everybody up.”
  • David Holmes, a State Department aide who overheard a phone conversation between Sondland and the president on July 26. Holmes appeared in a closed-door interview on Friday, but several Democrats who listened to his testimony indicated that they wanted him to appear in a public hearing.

Hill’s October 14 deposition was interrupted by the House GOP loudmouth Matt Gaetz before he was booted out because he wasn’t a member of the committees in the depostion. What was it about her deposition and her anticipated testimony that encouraged Gaetz to interject himself into the closed door session?

Ditto for Laura Cooper who testified last night. Something about her role must worry them and the White House so much that they’d coordinated their SCIF-storming tantrum to suck up media bandwidth while curtailing her October 23 deposition behind closed doors.

Was it because these two women may be able to pin point when Trump dictated the hold on aid and Ukraine’s representatives became aware there was a hold for political reasons? Was it because they could detail how different this hold was from other holds, departing sharply from recent U.S. foreign policy?

You’ll recall Holmes was added to the schedule on Monday; Republicans said they were ‘shaken’ by his deposition. Holmes will be able to validate the July 26 phone call between Sondland and Trump as well as some of the content and context of the call, putting to rest GOP claims of hearsay evidence regarding this call the day after the Trump-Zelensky phone call.

~ ~ ~

To follow along via streaming:

For folks who can’t stream, you can follow these live Twitter threads:

Marcy’s live twitter thread

Brandi Buchman-Courthouse News’s thread

Aaron Rupar-Vox’s thread contains video snippets

My Trump-Russia Twitter list which includes most of the above folks.

Here’s CNN’s live update page for today’s hearings.

~ ~ ~

Trump’s minders lost control of him this morning:

Tsk-tsk. Don’t play poker, dude.

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171 replies
  2. klynn says:

    Holmes testimony should have shaken the GOP. His professional skill set includes being an impeccable note taker.

    Hill is going to rip Nunes a new one with his continued lying in his opening statement.

    • Mooser says:

      “The Gang That Couldn’t Even Bullshit Straight” and “The Traducers” are my choices for the movie titles.

  4. harpie says:

    NUNES now trying to push back against Hill’s testimony with his “report”:
    Hill:

    Based on questions and statements I have heard, some of you on this committee appear to believe that Russia and its security services did not conduct a campaign against our country – and that perhaps, somehow, for some reason, Ukraine did. This is a fictional narrative that has been perpetrated and propagated by the Russian security services themselves

  6. OldTulsaDude says:

    There’s some voters we know
    whose minds are all closed
    and they’re buying the bullshit of Devin
    What he says, they all show,
    is for minds predisposed
    to get scammed, but he’s what they tune in for
    oh, oh, oh, oh, and they’re buying the bullshit of Devin

  8. Ollie says:

    I’m sitting here stunned. The share that Dr. Hill just shared made me cry, The truth of her testimony. The level of brilliance that just radiated from her is stunning and I haven’t seen very often in my life. That I was in the presence of greatness. I’m so grateful we have a woman like this serving our country.

      • Cathy says:

        Heck, no! Several R-members use her recollections to discredit Sondland. After which she scolds them for being naughty children (not b/c fact checking Sondland, rather b/c politicians)

    • Rayne says:

      She’s left our employment — a great loss for us. Her replacement was Tim Morrison, who remained in the role only until October 31 when he quit.

      • Ollie says:

        Hey Rayne! Yes, I realize that she’s left. I was trying to listen to the questioning and write this and see thru my tears and screaming. Those fuckers got put in their places. Those ‘bugs’ got squished to oblivion and I felt HOPE. My son (45 w/mental limitations) is ALL Q/TRUMP/GOP/Deep State and it’s EXHAUSTING dealing w/all of his sound bites and getting thru as well as the too many citizens who are happily ignorant of Civics and democracy.

  9. PieIsDamnGood says:

    Dr. Hill for Secretary of State? She’s an excellent witness speaking truth to conspiracy theories. And doing it with an incredible accent.

    • Ollie says:

      Oh yes. If you get a chance to watch when she and Holmes enter? Her walk caught my eye: Strength, determination, courage… and then she spoke. Her ancestors and myself radiated w/pride over this female human being of great quality. A coal miners daughter. Breathing….

  11. Fran of the North says:

    In his opening statement this morning, Nunes debased himself and showed what a classless individual he is. He attempted to smear the entire democratic party. How low will he go to in order to grovel?

    Perhaps his next tin foil hat theory will be that the the democratic representatives and senators are aliens who have taken human form in order to reverse the results of an election that was duly voted on by real Americans.

    • harpie says:

      https://twitter.com/Olivia_Beavers/status/1197544232489299975
      7:56 AM – 21 Nov 2019

      Q: And the indication was that Kash Patel was passing along information to the president re. Ukraine?

      A: “That seemed to be the indication”

      Side Note: Patel is suing Politico over story about his role in Trump’s Ukraine dealings. [link]
      Patel in lawsuit contends that the staffer did not speak with Trump about Ukraine-related issues before Oct. 30, refuting the report based on an account of claims made by Fiona Hill.

      Uhhhh Patel v. Hill? Bwahahahahaha!
      …anyway, Aaron Weisburd reminds us:

      https://twitter.com/webradius/status/1197548920697569282
      8:14 AM – 21 Nov 2019

      Whose aide was Kash Patel? Nunes’s.
      Who was helping Nunes cook up Ukraine conspiracies to help Trump get Russia off the hook for 2016 election interference and put a dent in Biden’s campaign? Parnas.
      And who was Parnas answering to? Firtash.
      These guys need to sue themselves.

      then, dcpoll reminds us: [will place link in next comment]
      8:56 AM – 21 Nov 2019

      Just 2 months after Lev Parnas arranged meetings in Europe for Devin Nunes and 3 of his aides in 2018, another Nunes top aide, Kash Patel, joined the NSC [Feb 2019] and began circumventing the normal NSC process to feed Trump disinformation about Ukraine.

    • timbo says:

      Yeah, this needs to be followed up on for sure. WTF is going on with the odd idea that the NSC roles were short-circuited internally by Nunes and his cronies?

  13. orionATL says:

    i find fiona hill a witness who is reluctant to draw obvious conclusions, e.g., the putin affection for his propaganda position “the Ukraine was involved in the ametican election”, responding merely that this view also has growing support in the u.s., while leaving out that that support is trump generated.

    as with robert mueller there is such a thing as being so precise and so fair that one vitiates the truth of one’s knowledge and one’s understanding.

    it seems likely that dr. hill is still being loyal to her past position in the trump administration, though not to trump personally.

    • orionATL says:

      yet in her initial testimony came the media-advertised testimony that we expected:

      “From Fiona Hill’s opening statement today:

      Based on questions and statements I have heard, some of you on this committee appear to believe that Russia and its security services did not conduct a campaign against our country – and that perhaps, somehow, for some reason, Ukraine did. This is a fictional narrative that has been perpetrated and propagated by the Russian security services themselves.”

      harpie, nov 21 8:36am at emptwheel “Devin nunes…”.

    • orionATL says:

      the washington post takes note:

      “russian, u.s. support for conspiracy theory has ‘started to fuse together’ says hill.”

      https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/impeachment-hearings-live-updates/2019/11/21/879521ca-0c31-11ea-8397-a955cd542d00_story.html

      propaganda works well in an environment with a mainstream print and electronic media who are wedded to “fair-and-balanced”, aka non-judgemental journalism.

      [FYI, link edited to remove tracking. /~Rayne]

  14. fpo says:

    Per a recent tweet from Ben Wittes re Dr. Hill:
    “…One other thing—a warning to the cocky Republican member who may try to be patronizing or think he or she is gonna have a good C-SPAN moment at Fiona’s expense: Fiona is smarter than you. She knows more. And she is impatient with idiocy. You are likely to embarrass yourself.” [ https://twitter.com/benjaminwittes/status/1197498899692445696 ]

    Pass the popcorn, please.

    • Cathy says:

      Drawn by the mention of popcorn and stays long enough to note – maybe the GOP members will unanimously give their times to Castor?

      • Rayne says:

        They’d be stupid not to. They’ll have a hard time dunking on these two witnesses, come out looking like partisan hacks more so than they usually do.

        • Cathy says:

          I just know I don’t want to see Nunez v Hill – I just don’t want to admit to myself I’m that sadistic (take THAT Speed Bump! – [no don’t – breathe – pay visit to George Conway’s twitter feed – ahh – better now])

    • Ollie says:

      LOL

      Fiona is smarter than you. She knows more. And she is impatient with idiocy. You are likely to embarrass yourself.” [ https://twitter.com/benjaminwittes/status/1197498899692445696 ]

      Pass the popcorn, please.

      Cathy says:
      November 21, 2019 at 11:19 am

      Drawn by the mention of popcorn and stays long enough to note – maybe the GOP members will unanimously give their times to Castor?

      Rayne says:
      November 21, 2019 at 11:20 am

      They’d be stupid not to. They’ll have a hard time dunking on these two witnesses, come out looking like partisan hacks more so than they usually do.

      Ollie says:
      November 21, 2019 at 11:16 am

      So Dr. Hill really helped me to get a better understanding of the Putin influence in this country brought SO much together for me PLUS w/all of Dr. Wheeler’s constant facts on RU and all. Now I really can grip MajLeader McConnell and his lack of involvement in this Inquiry, the safety of our election coming up…..and to find how his state has gotten so many millions of dollars from RU business….
      This runs so deep it’s mind boggling. Now I’m listening to cspan callers and the stupidity continues. “That woman? Dr. Hill? She speaks w/a foreign accent and she’s against our majestic leader so it’s shifty’s way of treason….” I fucking kid you not.

      Jenny says:
      November 21, 2019 at 11:17 am

      I was looking forward to Dr. Hill’s testimony. She and Holmes are excellent.

      Time to bring in Bolton, Pompeo, Perry, Mulvaney, Eisenberg – The 5 Amigos.

      Got fresh popcorn popping as much as my spirits!

        • Cathy says:

          It works. It has the merit that you can tap your foot to it. Anything that doesn’t lend itself to a rap lyric is doomed to the dust bin.

          “Al-‘ter-na-tive-facts [and sibling] ‘Al-ter-nate-facts” …Hear it? Kellyanne is really the only one that has been able to make that work. IMHO.

        • Arj says:

          And every time we refuse to bleeve an alternative fact, a conspiracy fairy dies…

          Still processing Kellyanne as WH rapper.

        • Cathy says:

          Yep – still funny. LOL conspiracy fairy LOL

          And yeah she’s no A$AP Rocky but Trump WH has to work with what it’s got.

        • Rayne says:

          Looks like you had something stuck in your temporary cache — did you copy content on the site and then paste? probably caught more material than you realized. Reply here and let me know at what point I should delete content in that comment.

          EDIT: Never mind, I’ve deleted everything that looks like it was picked up from the right hand column on the site. Please keep the comment length in mind as many community members use mobile devices with small displays. They give up on comments when they have to scroll excessively.

        • Ollie says:

          I did copy the quote and link from the person above. Thank you for deleting the whole thing. My comment was very short. I mentioned Mcconnell and his ties to RU in his state and so maybe???? HAHAHAHAhahaha
          THanks!

  15. Ollie says:

    So Dr. Hill really helped me to get a better understanding of the Putin influence in this country brought SO much together for me PLUS w/all of Dr. Wheeler’s constant facts on RU and all. Now I really can grip MajLeader McConnell and his lack of involvement in this Inquiry, the safety of our election coming up…..and to find how his state has gotten so many millions of dollars from RU business….
    This runs so deep it’s mind boggling. Now I’m listening to cspan callers and the stupidity continues. “That woman? Dr. Hill? She speaks w/a foreign accent and she’s against our majestic leader so it’s shifty’s way of treason….” I fucking kid you not.

    Later

    • Cathy says:

      Too true @Ollie & underscores attempts to reduce role of impeachment hearings to ammunition in cyber war for “hearts and minds”

  16. Jenny says:

    I was looking forward to Dr. Hill’s testimony. She and Holmes are excellent.

    Time to bring in Bolton, Pompeo, Perry, Mulvaney, Eisenberg – The 5 Amigos.

    • Fran of the North says:

      Those 5 (along with Rudy & the Don) are the nexus. However, Nunes laid down the markers in his opening remarks today, by insinuating that any attempts by the corrupt dems to lengthen the investigation beyond today they would ‘scramble their kangaroo court rules’.

      What purpose could be served by following new leads in an investigation?

  17. harpie says:

    Marcy:
    https://twitter.com/emptywheel/status/1197545893433622529
    8:02 AM – 21 Nov 2019

    Hill: Bolton wanted me to hold back. Wanted to know exactly what was said. Very specific instructions. I had to go to the lawyers, John Eisenberg, to say, you tell Eisenberg that I am not part of whatever drug deal Mulvaney and Sondland cooking up. Related precisely.

    Laura Rozen adds:
    https://twitter.com/lrozen/status/1197549002205601792
    8:15 AM – 21 Nov 2019

    Bolton sent Fiona Hill once, and Tim Morrison twice, to report concerns to the lawyers. between July 10:and September 10.

    Vindman also went twice on his own in July. those just what we know about.]

  18. Vicks says:

    Fox is using the break to promote Horowitz’s report which is scheduled to come out December 9th with him scheduled to give testimony on the 12th.
    The description was that this report on FISA abuse in 2016 will tell the other side of the story that “we” will be unfolding out in real time.
    If they can’t get away with unmasking the whistle blower, perhaps this report will provide a (much needed) chant-worthy target to rally the troops?

    • Cathy says:

      Potentially timed to provide alternate narrative to probable impeachment trial in Senate? Trying to coordinate alternate messaging to events that haven’t been scheduled yet – it’s a job for adrenaline junkies.

      May be a factor in Trump’s focus on self-producing so many supposedly third-party propaganda moments: trying to deal with real-time events as they unfold just is not in his wheelhouse. Where’s Bondi when he needs her?

      • timbo says:

        More worrying, this report could be used as an actual reaction against continuing with the function of the Constitution, and the old legal system replaced with a more authoritarian bent lead by Trump and his men. I hope it won’t… but it could.

  19. punaise says:

    with apologies to John and Paul: 

    Day of today
    Devin and a Hill
    The man with the foolish grin
    Is keeping perfectly shrill

    But nobody wants to hear him
    They can see that he’s just a fool
    And he always gives wrong answer

    But the fool on the hill
    Sees his scheme going down
    Bovine eyes in his head
    See the world spinning ’round

  20. Cathy says:

    Oh hey – heads up!
    Only just realized MSNBC has Chuck Rosenberg on the impeachment-coverage panel this today.

  21. PeterS says:

    I hope the Democrats do a better job today than they did yesterday in refuting the narrative that Ukraine was anti-Trump. In pretty much every EU/European country in 2016 there were some politicians being critical of Trump. Remember what the Boris Johnson has said about Trump, and he’s now the British Prime Minister ….

      • pollyredtop says:

        I have to say, my favorite moment in body language class today was Hill’s palpable anger after Turner’s rant. Normally completely composed, Hill’s eyes were blinking furiously and looking to the to the side as she attempted to listen to Rep. Carson (trying to contain the rage, I presume).

  26. earlofhuntingdon says:

    Gym Jordan is so in over his head with Holmes he doesn’t know it. But Gym is ranting for Trump. He still ignores the difference between an edited, incomplete call memo and a transcript. But facts are not Jordan’s thing. If they were, he would not have spent so much energy over so many years being willfully blind to the sexual predation at OSU.

    • timbo says:

      What Jordon may need is a good long vacation in a room with a mirror where he can practice is ignorant smirk to perfection.

  27. Jockobadger says:

    What a monumental grandstanding boob Jordan is!

    I note he hasn’t taken on the Coalminer’s Daughter!! She is tough and elegantly steely! A wonderful servant of our country. Jordan, et al, don’t deserve to be in the same room with these people. Gives me hope!!

    • earlofhuntingdon says:

      Dr. Hill apparently would happily take on any coal mine owner on the planet – and win. These GOP gofers wouldn’t last an hour down in the pit or against her in an open field. They would go wobbly just going down in the elevator.

  28. earlofhuntingdon says:

    Ratcliffe is in over his head even more than Jordan. He is gobsmacked about how casually Trump transitioned from the comment that Zelensky would do whatever Trump wanted to his, “Good. What about Sweden?”. Does Ratcliffe think that this is the memorable first time that Trump has engaged in bribery or extortion, in or out of office, or that his ego can deal with anything other than abject submission?

    I think Ratcliffe is attempting to demonstrate Holmes’s recollection is poor. Ratcliffe’s nothingburger doesn’t go far in doing that.

  29. Rayne says:

    Ugh. That mothertrucker Mike Turner (R-Obnoxious) trying to tell the public the score.

    Fuck that. **mute**

    We can tell the score ourselves, jackass. Tells me I need to donate to your Democratic opponent and to Gym Jordan’s opponent in 2020.

  30. earlofhuntingdon says:

    The invidious Michael Turner mounts his charger and a defense of the mangled reputation of Elise Stefanik. His was an attempt at a riposte to an earlier comment lamenting the President’s well-documented abuse of talented women working in his administration, starting with Amb. Yovanovitch. My, Turner is a monumental hypocritical jerk.

  31. earlofhuntingdon says:

    Mikey Turner thinks Holmes embarrassed Zelensky (he really means Sondland and Trump). That was after hearing again that Trump focused the entire weight of American diplomacy on making Zelensky his bitch.

    • Mooser says:

      That’s America’s new foreign policy, the Trump Extortion Doctrine. It applies to any country which can be ‘squeezed’ between Trump and Putin. And if Putin wants it for himself, that’s cool, too.

  33. 200Toros says:

    One of the best moments ever: After Wentrup spoke, Dr. Hill asked to speak, and basically said, in the most polite way possible “Will you please understand that WE are the experts of the Ukraine and Russia, WE are the ones who know what happened there, and we are here to help you understand what happened, so that YOU can make a decision on what to do about it.”

      • Mooser says:

        And Weintrup was thinking: ‘Expertise? I have all the expertise I need! I’ve got Solomon, and Vogel, and Rudy! I know exactly what the facts’ is.’

        One Repub gave a shout-out to Vogel and Solomon for ‘their work on Ukraine’ yesterday, IIRC.

        • Eureka says:

          If I’m not mistaken (it’s a bit of a blur) Marcy was ~ tracking the # of Vogel vs Solomon mentions in her threads yesterday & Tues.

    • Cathy says:

      Notice Wentrup’s response when Schiff told Hill to proceed? Talk about body language. He, I assume reflexively, grabbed his brief case and hugged it to himself as though seeking something, anything, he could use as a shield.

      He thought she was going to gut him.

      And she did, with finely-honed diplomacy. So finely honed that afterward he wasn’t sure but whether he should thank her.

        • Cathy says:

          So when Hill explains she thought Vindman might not be suited for wrestling with the escalating politicization of the portfolio under his care, we can evaluate that comment in light of the bar she clearly sets for herself, which includes black-belt mastery of verbal jiu-jitsu.

          To recap: Ratcliffe and Turner were wise to leave the room; they left Wentrup, literally, holding the bag.

        • earlofhuntingdon says:

          It’s also an assessment of how corrupt and more ruthless the foreign policy-making apparatus has become under the likes of Trump, Giuliani, and Pompeo.

          Vindman appears well-qualified, but has a code of honor. He believes in rules of the game. Trump doesn’t. Attack the weak, avoid the strong. Deny, attack, corrupt, run away. Dr. Hill seems well-acquainted with the type.

        • Cathy says:

          Exactly. My impression is that Vindman is well nigh incorruptible and would find political jousting exasperating. Fencing with slime is an acquired taste. Why would Hill set him up to face the type of corrosive environment that advancement deeper into the current administration’s cesspit would entail? The man we saw Tuesday this week would be miserable. His very existence is a rebuke to the Trump political-appointee stratum.

  34. Rugger9 says:

    Dr. Hill agreed with Nunes early on that the Steele Dossier was commissioned via Fusion GPS by the Ds (based on press reports, when in fact it was the Washington Beacon (a conservative birdcage liner) doing oppo research that made the initial contact with Fusion, and note also that the Atlantic talks about the visit to Steele by McCain (never a Democrat). There is also zero evidence that the DNC ever used the data, and I would guess that the nude photos that Nunes keeps talking about (wistfully) comes from there.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/11/steele-dossier-fusion-gps/602341/

  35. P J Evans says:

    I’m wondering now what the methods are that the the GOP-T uses to select its electoral candidates for stupidity/cupidity.

  37. Areader2019 says:

    If it is determined that you are a fact witness, and you are say…. ranking member on the House committee examining the same matter, do you have to recuse yourself?

    Just asking for a friend.

  39. Eureka says:

    I know Krishnamoorthi is a good questioner, but I wish he hadn’t cut off/redirected Hill when she was talking about her propaganda knowledge/ Soros attacks as new protocols elder zion… how she was going to write about it (I thought she was saying).

  41. morganism says:

    Deriliction of Duty.

    Tell Marcy the reason the repubs keep leaving the chamber, is because, as Jordan has specifically said, ” i havn’t heard any evidence of bribery or extortion in these hearings”

    It is so he can claim he didn’t have “first person knowledge” of testimony. One of the standard claims here.
    This seems like a dereliction of duty to other congressional members, their staffers, and moreover, their constituents.

    All so they can say they aren’t lying when called as witnesses in the Senate hearing.

    And the cow keeps saying the DNC funded the Steele doss., when he knows it was Simpson. How does he square that if he may be called as a witness?

  44. klynn says:

    Just want to say that a long time ago I had the esteemed honor of working with Dennis Heck when he was Gov. Booth’s COS. He was a great listener, problem solver, and demonstrated a “for the greater good of others” ethic. It was an honor to receive his guidance and support for the non-profit I was employed.

    How he conducted himself in the hearings was genuine.

    He cares.

  46. 200Toros says:

    Another hugely important point that jumped out at me – Dr. Hill explaining the real-world consequences of actions that degrade foreign allies’ faith in US foreign policy. In the time frame of the Georgia uprising, Putin made it crystal-clear, in many public statements, that any movement towards the West was unacceptable and would result in consequences.

    Georgia was crushed by Russia, and Putin told President Shaakashvili of Georgia “the West made you a lot of promises, and didn’t deliver. I told you there would be consequences, and I delivered.”

    Ukraine says they want to join NATO, then Putin invades and annexes the Crimean peninsula. trump says he can keep it. Dr. Hill says Putin makes use of any example he can find to show that the US and the West can’t be relied upon. Which is painful but true; with the current POTUS – the US absolutely can’t be relied upon.

    For contrast, when Putin makes a threat, he always delivers.

        • Cathy says:

          True. There are different axes along which to measure Trump, such as those anchored by Good/Evil or by Ethical/Venal or by Effectual/Impotent…

          Trump is unfit because he is unrelentingly venal. He is futile because he is consumed by impotent braggadocio and would, I have no doubt, be perfectly content to fiddle while nation burns around him.

          Given a choice I’d hope we’d prefer an ethical, effective leader…if that is one of the choices presented by our current political vetting mechanism, the two-party system.

          In illustration of the simmering skepticism due the latter, I offer what is now mandatory listening for my kids:
          freakonomics.com/podcast/politics-industry-rebroadcast/

          🙂

  47. Mister Sterling says:

    How about Hill pretty much acknowledging that she has heard dozens of Trump’s calls, and she doesn’t want to talk about any of them. Think back to the leaked calls with Mexico and Australia. On every call, he bullies and asks for favors.

    • Rayne says:

      Somebody’s got to build the backstory for Putin’s narrative, of course. Whatever it is they are holding over Lindsey’s head, I hope it’s fully disclosed sooner rather than later.

    • timbo says:

      Bless his heart. Yeah, this is what the spineless DP leadership was trying to avoid. But then Trump went and broke the unspoken truce. Not sure how far Graham wants to go with this though as, gee, maybe people will actually start feeling sorry for Joe Biden once the whole thing is put in the context of Joe’s losses in this life. Not that that will stop Graham if he really does want to go there.

      • P J Evans says:

        I am very tired of your blaming every. fucking. thing. on the Democratic Party leadership. It makes you sound like a funhouse-mirror version of the MAGA-hat brigade.

  50. earlofhuntingdon says:

    Devin Nunes seemed especially thuggish today, and looked the part in his Nathan Detroitish neon-lit pinstripe suit. But Frank Sinatra had more style, and probably more connections.

  51. fpo says:

    Not sure where we go from here. Bit of a sugar high from Schiff, Fiona and Holmes (really can’t ask for more) but unless and until the average Joe/Jane realizes this shit really does matter, I’m afraid it’s going nowhere.

    What do the kids in Hong Kong get that we don’t? Do we let a book deal determine the fate of this great experiment?

    My local US Rep and GOP Senator are quite adept with their boilerplate, party-line responses to e-mails…and leave me looking for a Boston Tea Party moment. I have little confidence that this “explosive week of testimony” will do little more than bump the cable news ratings. I just hope the frustration hasn’t turned to apathy come November 2020.

    • Rayne says:

      You said, “Not sure where we go from here. … I just hope the frustration hasn’t turned to apathy come November 2020.”

      You’ve laid out your own breadcrumb trail. Find some way to help register voters and get the vote out. Join a local party or Indivisible or Swing Left group. Find out how you can convert frustration into constructive action. That’s where we go from here no matter what happens in Washington D.C.

      • fpo says:

        Hey, we’re good. Thanks, Rayne. As determined/motivated as ever, personally – and very encouraged by recent voting results. I do worry that the noise level, animosity and rabid misinformation has made it easy for many folks to tune out – just when being informed and involved seems to matter most. So yeah, carry on we must. No shortage of inspiration from the likes of Yovanovitch, Vindman, Hill and Holmes. Should be required viewing.

    • Cathy says:

      Hi @fpo!

      (1) Trump is constitutionally incapable of inspiring apathy. Guaranteed he will come up with something in the general election that will inflame the electorate. Keep in mind in 2016 there was a pervasive assumption that his opponent would win, allowing a lack of urgency to create lost opportunities for that very opponent. Really, really doubt that’s a factor in 2020.

      (2) Need cheering up? Pay less attention to social media and more to voter trends. Voters don’t have to post on FB or tweet in order to vote (at least, not yet). The Brookings Institution has a glass-half-full offering:
      https://www.brookings.edu/research/a-vast-majority-of-counties-showed-increased-democratic-support-in-2018-house-election/

      (3) Suburban women voters. While policy wonks are slaving away in D.C. think tanks, suburban women voters are calling bullshit AND raising a new generation of voters. You’re welcome.

      So don’t lose hope, definitely get involved as Rayne suggests, and remember *All politics are local* and *health-care, health-care, health-care*

  52. punaise says:

    Think about it: two foreign born naturalized citizens (Vindman and Hill) are far more patriotic than roughly half of Congress and anybody else who supports Trump at this point.

    • earlofhuntingdon says:

      The US is built on the backs of immigrants, from plantations and railroads to mines, farms, and factories, from Wall Street and academia to government service and the military. The Endicotts on their hills love them until they get uppity, want a raise, or join a union.

  53. klynn says:

    Who would have thought that one of the State Department’s finest hours would be on a domestic matter?

    A domestic political matter – a divergence from working on nation security foreign policy.

    Thank you to the finest of our foreign service.

  54. Mooser says:

    Some thing I noticed during Fiona Hill’s testimony. I was listening on NPR, and towards the end the commentator was summing up Ms. Hill’s views, as evidenced by her testimony. He (or she?) said that Ms. Hill’s views on Russia, Russia’s aggressive actions, and corrupt internal politics and Russia’s interference in elections makes her a “right-winger”.

    • orionATL says:

      ithe print and visual media have made a repeated point of worrying about democratic competence in national politics. it is a tic they have had for some years now. perhaps their editors see this as counting as part of satisfying the hungers of their republican clientele for fair and balanced.

      ignore this bullshit.

      as rayne said, register some voters. and check the competence and the ability to accurately audit votes and discovery late changes to voting machines ex poste voting.

      democrats probably have weaknesses but president thrump is president and has conducted what may be the most malign (immigration), destructive (global warming, nuclear salt, and iran treaties), ignorant (trade and nato, and politically incompetent (a governing style consisting of insulting everyone, friends and enemies, alike foreign as well as domestic.) in american history. it appears an understanding of his severe incompetence has slowly permeated the minds of many of the citizenry and good will and patience toward him has diminished. this should be, but rarely is, a trumpet the visual/print media should be sounding, if alarms are to be sounded, not the extensive potential or imaginary deficiencies of the democratic party,

      the visual/print media also insist the democratic party is “moving left” these days. that is not accurate, nor is it helpful politically. what the democratic party is doing, at least what it’s two most caring leaders (warren and sanders) are doing, together with many of its voters, is pay attention to the needs of the bottom half of the American income distribution by commenting on and proposing legislation to control the excessive political power of american corporations and their scions the billionaires. that power, often exercised thru the koch bros. octopus, alec, the extraordinary money-giving power of billionaires, the business roundtable, the federalist society, the u.s. chamber of commerce, and that fellow-traveler, the fundamentalist religious groups, have elected legislators whose allegiance is to the narrow and often restrictive, destructive economic needs of the corporate sector of the economy, ignoring the needs of the essential, but minimally rewarded, for the last 40 years at least, labor sector.

      as long as democrats talked about “centrism” and “neoliberal” and “capitalism” the corporations and billionaires did not squeal too loudly. now that Warren in particular is talking repeatedly about seriously controlling corporate marketing and political power, the squeal has become deafening. billionaires and bidens are coming out of the woodwork, and the corporate media, which is all of the visual media, and but all but one of the major papers, has suddenly discovered that the Democrats do not have an electable candidate. of course it does not now; it’s very early in the process, and the party was predictably stupid in yielding to pressure to “open it up”, thus creating a mob scene instead of a reasonable number of choices of candidates (would not an even dozen have been sufficient representation of the spectrum 😉?

      ignore these jeremiads.

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