Leaving Las Vegas

I’m at the airport well in advance of my flight to leave Netroots Nation, and thought it overdue to check in, since I’ve been so quiet all week.

This year’s Netroots Nation–the fifth (I’ve attended all of them)–felt utterly familiar, like a family reunion only without any of the fights about politics. FDL had a good contingent (as has probably been obvious): given that we do so much work together remotely, it was great to spend time with Rayne, Gregg, Michael Whitney, David Dayen, Lisa Derrick, and Jon Walker. And I enjoyed spending good time with Rosalind, Bob Schacht, and Garrett.

Just as important seeing the increasingly few people trying to return our country to the rule of law. In addition to the great people on my panel: Jerry Nadler, Vince Warren, Matthew Alexander, and Adam Serwer, people like Daphne Eviatar and Jason Leopold were there (and I’ve not spent much time with either before), as well as more folks from ACLU and CCR. Jeremy Scahill would have been at my panel–except that his conflicted with mine (though we did get to spend some time together).

And then there were all the discussions about where we go from here. There was a bunch of discussion about several things: how we put the teacher funding back into the war supplemental–we have no business firing teachers to pay for war (yeah, then there’s the big question of whether we have any business at war in Afghanistan). There were lots of discussions about the economy generally. And there was near unanimity (well, maybe downright unanimity) that we need to make sure that Elizabeth Warren gets the Consumer Financial Protection Agency position.

In fact, one of the highlights of the trip this year was meeting some of the best women in politics. I got to meet Warren, who is every bit as much a rock star in person as she is on teevee. I spent some time with Linda Chavez-Thompson, talking about what she will do when she wins her election to be Lieutenant Governor of Texas. And, as you’ll see on Monday once I’ve transcribed everything and written it up, I had the opportunity to talk to Nancy Pelosi (and Jan Schakowsky) about intelligence reform. It’s pretty damned humbling–and inspiring–to get to spend time with such a collection of women heroes.

There’s a lot more I’ll hopefully write up over the next few days. But for the moment, I head back home once again remembering that this bloggy politics thing is all about community.

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  1. eclectablog says:

    Looking forward to reading your reports and impressions, EW. Strangely, I never even turned my laptop on the whole conference. However, I have a head full of blog posts that hopefully find their way onto the internets before long.

    Safe travels.

  2. ffein says:

    Have a good trip back. You missed the art fair and the annual mid-fair thunder/lightning/rain storms. I look forward to reading your reports, as always.

  3. prostratedragon says:

    Eagerly anticipating here too.

    the art fair and the annual mid-fair thunder/lightning/rain storms

    Amazing, eh? There could be a pretty good pool for bets by day, but hardly any action on “none” for the quadrifecta.

  4. emptywheel says:

    So you all are telling me I didn’t miss anything by missing Art Fair?

    Gotta admit, I was sort of pleased when I realized I’d be out of town for the craziness.

  5. Arbusto says:

    Marcy:

    Maybe in a later article, you can assuage (or confirm) my cynicism about politicians from Obama on down (relative direction) paying homage at the alter of the Bloggishere. Their basic message being you aren’t going to get better Democrats than the current crop of Corporatists, but we’re still better the the opposition. In other words, other than the Bloggishere supporting better Dems against Corporatists, did the DC crowd attending NetRoots get any part of the message that selling out to special interests and moving inexorably to a police state doesn’t fly with us. Are we winning any converts in Congress?

  6. emptywheel says:

    Arbusto

    That wasn’t the message we got from everyone. A number of them–from O’s taped message to Pelosi (I didn’t see Reid)–were saying, “continue to kick our ass.” And I think the others were very honest about the challenges.

    • Arbusto says:

      In other words, our masters say keep bitching and we’ll pretend to listen (from behind their cutouts/bunkers) while not really giving a shit, as they continue to evade their duty by hiding behind the boggy man of GOP obstructionism.

      • Petrocelli says:

        No, it’s because a sustained, popular outcry is the only thing that can successfully counter the entrenched lobbyists in DC.

        Dubya was right about one thing – Democracy is not a spectator sport !

  7. Neil says:

    Great!

    RT @emptywheel: Maybe we can get you a new, bigger one? RT @GreggJLevine Biggest regret of #nn10: Wake up to discover I lost my “team blowjob” button.

  8. emptywheel says:

    And for those who didn’t see the post on the “Team Blowjob” buttons, Rosalind showed up with them. Very cool.

    And that’s how my media trainer–who knew of the blowjob comment–realized it was me.

    • rosalind says:

      Sitting at the gate waiting for my flight, being stared at by everyone around me due to the loud guffaw I just let out!! Glad the buttons were a hit. Great hanging with EW and the FDL crew and Bob Schact. See ya online…

  9. Mary says:

    Let’s “hope” what happens in Vegas doesn’t stay in Vegas.

    Leaving LV, and coming back to:

    Obama’s Mullen warning how much worse things are gonna get in AFghanistan

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100725/ts_nm/us_afghanistan

    Feinstein’s pal, the evil Elmer Fudd Hayden, chirping that we’re closer to a strike on Iran

    The Taliban are claiming to have killed/captured two members of the US Navy (“Gul said there is a well-paved road that leads into the Taliban area and suggested the Americans may have mistaken that for the main highway — which is much older and more dilapidated “)

    Obama’s drones keep killing – headlines,”militants” buried in story, “suspected militants” nowhere in either “guys who had nothing to do with 9/11 or the AUMF) – in Pakistan

    Meanwhile, Putin (who isn’t mired in Afghanistan) is singing.

    As lawyers, doctors, engineers, teachers, students and the Pakistani Supreme Court Bar Association join together to protest the handling of the Siddiqui case and promise a march on the US embassy on August 14th, Obama has tasked Clinton with getting the families who have ” been struggling for five years for the search of their relatives who went missing mysteriously ” to quit looking for their disappeared families and quit worrying about drone attacks by promising them dams and things.

    When I try to sit down, I get the feeling that the ass that has been being kicked might not have been Obama’s or Pelosi’s.

    But Netroots Nation has become a real counterweight – thanks for all you guys have done.

  10. emptywheel says:

    Mary

    I first started saying blowjob in public (well, in this context, anyway), when I was on a panel with Clinton’s press guy, Joe Lockhart. An audience member asked what I thought the Clinton Admin should have done. I said, “Get a good surrogate out there (on TV of course) to say, it’s just a blowjob.”

    Lockhart said, “You’re not going to get me to say it. But I can’t tell you how many times I wanted to say just that.”

    I sort of figured I had license to say blowjob publicly ever since.

  11. rosalind says:

    (OMG: having a L.A. Moment…Kloe Khardahsian – wife of L.A. Laker Lamar Odom – just sat down next to me)

  12. JohnLopresti says:

    Arb@14, I thought Nadler was explicit in his comments about the centrality of the constitution*s due process concept, as well in his stark depiction the Republican work with a substrate of fear, ew gtmo panel around 60:00 ff. Also, his views of strategems for eliciting senate cooperativeness.

    Et alii; Physiognomous comments, still like smile button.

  13. skdadl says:

    I would love to shake Nadler’s hand. I should have thought to ask you to give him my regards for what he has done for Arar (whether it worked or not — so far, not).

  14. MadDog says:

    OT – Via the Guardian, the New York Times and Der Spiegel:

    From the Guardian:

    Afghanistan war logs: Massive leak of secret files exposes truth of occupation

    A huge cache of secret US military files today provides a devastating portrait of the failing war in Afghanistan, revealing how coalition forces have killed hundreds of civilians in unreported incidents, Taliban attacks have soared and Nato commanders fear neighbouring Pakistan and Iran are fuelling the insurgency.

    The disclosures come from more than 90,000 records of incidents and intelligence reports about the conflict obtained by the whistleblowers’ website Wikileaks in one of the biggest leaks in US military history. The files, which were made available to the Guardian, the New York Times and the German weekly Der Spiegel, give a blow-by-blow account of the fighting over the last six years, which has so far cost the lives of more than 320 British and over 1,000 US troops…

    From the NYT:

    Pakistan Spy Service Aids Insurgents, Reports Assert

    A trove of military documents to be made public on Sunday by an organization called WikiLeaks reflects deep suspicions among American officials that Pakistan’s military spy service has for years guided the Afghan insurgency with a hidden hand, even as Pakistan receives more than $1 billion a year from Washington for its help combating the militants…

    From Der Spiegel:

    Explosive Leaks Provide Image of War from Those Fighting It

    In an unprecedented development, close to 92,000 classified documents pertaining to the war in Afghanistan have been leaked. SPIEGEL, the New York Times and the Guardian have analyzed the raft of mostly classified documents. They expose the true scale of the Western military deployment — and the problems beleaguering Germany’s Bundeswehr in the Hindu Kush.

    A total of 91,731 reports from United States military databanks relating to the war in Afghanistan are to be made publicly available on the Internet. Never before has it been possible to compare the reality on the battlefield in such a detailed manner with what the US Army propaganda machinery is propagating. WikiLeaks plans to post the documents, most of which are classified, on its website.

    Britain’s Guardian newspaper, the New York Times and SPIEGEL have all vetted the material and compared the data with independent reports. All three media have concluded that the documents are authentic and provide an unvarnished image of the war in Afghanistan — from the perspective of the soldiers who are fighting it…

        • Professor Foland says:

          This made the local AM talk radio (which has “traffic on the 3s” as its sole draw for me) as big news today. It’s a relatively conservative station by Boston standards but pretty mild; mostly it’s vapid. I’ve not had a chance to read anything yet but I thought if it seemed like big news to them, it must be quite big.

          Pakistan’s military spy service supplying the Taliban? Bad doesn’t even begin to encompass that.

          Also makes you wonder how much of it was improperly classified.

        • MadDog says:

          …Pakistan’s military spy service supplying the Taliban? Bad doesn’t even begin to encompass that…

          Makes one wonder whether the Afghanistan war is being fought in the wrong country.

        • Mary says:

          OR whether they’d be so quick to engage in and proclaim it a war if it was against a nuclear power.

        • BoxTurtle says:

          Got to be driving Marcy crazy, being in flight and unable to start digging. Wonder if Wiki did that intentionally. :-)

          Boxturtle (Marcy, please rest before you start weeding. The docs will still be there in the morning)

        • MadDog says:

          Depending on the timing of EW’s netbook battery depletion during her return flight, I’m not sure she’s even aware of the story yet.

        • emptywheel says:

          Will do. My battery gave out before these came out (or rather I think just the Guardian piece had come out), and I’ve just gotten home. The male members of my pack (that is, mr. ew and McCaffrey the MilleniaLab) say the docs can wait, too.

        • MadDog says:

          For those folks who are not technical, here’s what you need to read the formats of CSV, SQL or KML:

          CSV format – Comma-separated values which can be read by using Microsoft’s Excel package or Open Office’s Calc spreadsheet package (free software).

          SQL format – Typically used by databases such as Microsoft SQL Server, Oracle, DB2, MySQL, Sybase and Microsoft Access.

          KML format – KML is a file format used to display geographic data in an Earth browser such as Google Earth and Google Maps. You can read these files in KML format if you download and install Google’s free Google Earth software.

        • MadDog says:

          If you’re on either a Windows-based system, a Mac-based system or a Linux-based system, try Open Office’s Calc.

          You can download the free Open Office software here.

        • MadDog says:

          I would note that I’ve not yet been successful in downloading WikiLeak’s CSV-formatted version of the files.

          It’s 16 MB in a zipped file, but the download keeps timing out. Maybe due to excessive number of Net folks trying to download it since the story broke.

          I was able to get the KML-formatted version downloaded and opened in Google Earth.

        • MadDog says:

          …It’s 16 MB in a zipped file, but the download keeps timing out. Maybe due to excessive number of Net folks trying to download it since the story broke…

          Or with tinfoil hat tightly clasped on head, it may be that the US government’s Cybersecurity toadies at the National Security Agency have decided to block the CSV format download.

          …Pause…Click…Whirrr…Hmmmm…

          Now all the various formats (CSV, SQL and KML) can no longer be downloaded from WikiLeaks. IE gives me an error message that “it was unable to open this site.”

          Hmmm…maybe not so tinfoil hat after all.

          We shall see. *g*

        • BoxTurtle says:

          Wiki is likely getting pounded by folks doing exactly what you’re trying to do. Not sure I’d go tinfoil yet.

          Boxturtle (If Agent Jacobs is monitoring this thread, your wife wants you to get milk on your way home)

        • MadDog says:

          I guess WikiLeaks got things fixed.

          Just downloaded the 16 MB CSV-formatted version which took no more than 30 seconds on my connection.

          Now to see if the files are more readable/searchable in Excel as opposed to trying to view/read them as KML files using Google Earth.

      • Mary says:

        Lovely bit in the piece you linked about US gov offering to “meet” with Assange on “neutral” territory. Hmmmm – so, where exactly is this “neutral” territory in the Obama-Bush described “global” war? And haven’t our Presidents and DOJ claimed for a decade now that the proper use of neutral territories is as a kidnap to torture or assassination platform?

        @31 – and aren’t we using those same “unreliable” intel sources to aim drones at homes with children? A bit of non-sequitor, but I still go back to the relatively recent story about the killings of the women and children with the men in the 3 cars by bombing. The thing that really floored me about that story was burrowed into it and that was that IF the cars had not also had women, then all the deaths would have been written off as “killed insurgents” even with otherwise the same fact pattern (i.e., that the cars were just generally heading in the direction of a confrontation, had nothing to establish them as tied to the insurgents that were engaged in that area, were miles away from that area etc. – all it took for everyone in the vehicles to be written off as killed insurgents would be that they were male and maybekindasorta most of them were over 15 – nothing else was really required unde the ROE they were describing – any car within miles that had only men in it.

    • BoxTurtle says:

      The NYT is a bunch of lapdogs.

      Much of the information — raw intelligence and threat assessments gathered from the field in Afghanistan— cannot be verified and likely comes from sources aligned with Afghan intelligence, which considers Pakistan an enemy, and paid informants. Some describe plots for attacks that do not appear to have taken place.

      Not one mention of the killing of cvilians by American troops, not one mention of the failing US strategy. And they leave the implication that the docs aren’t reliable. If I only had the NYT, I’d think the documents were ALL about Pakistan. Impressive how they managed to highlight the ONLY parts of the documents that do not refer to American errors.

      I wonder if they had time to run the story by Rahm. I wonder if they’ll do a followup concentrating on errors and omissions and try to tar the entire document dump.

      ObamaLLP seems to be taking the tack that from the documents dates, it’s all BushCo’s fault.

      Boxturtle (Obviously, the solution to this more troops, more drones, and more money to Pakistan)

      • MadDog says:

        …I wonder if they had time to run the story by Rahm…

        Per the NYT:

        At the request of the White House, The Times also urged WikiLeaks to withhold any harmful material from its Web site…

        (My Bold)

        • BoxTurtle says:

          Ah, so. Reading comprehension failure, that’s what I get for skimming. The Guardian seems to be doing the best reporting so far, so I’m reading there.

          Boxturtle (Would pay money to see Rahm’s face when he first saw the documents)

        • MadDog says:

          Ah, so. Reading comprehension failure…

          Nah. There’s so much to read that it’s understandable that you’ve not read all it yet.

          And yes, I agree that EW will have plenty to post about on this subject.

        • Mary says:

          It’s a shame the NYT has not been nearly as solicitous in their requests to the Bush and Obama govs to withhold their release of harmful materials like drones and bombs and bullets and radioactive materials and assassination squads.

    • Leen says:

      HRes 1553
      Resolved, That the House of Representatives–

      (1) condemns the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran for its threats of ‘annihilating’ the United States and the State of Israel, for its continued support of international terrorism, and for its incitement of genocide of the Israeli people;

      (2) supports using all means of persuading the Government of Iran to stop building and acquiring nuclear weapons;

      (3) reaffirms the United States bond with Israel and pledges to continue to work with the Government of Israel and the people of Israel to ensure that their sovereign nation continues to receive critical economic and military assistance, including missile defense capabilities, needed to address the threat of Iran; and

      (4) expresses support for Israel’s right to use all means necessary to confront and eliminate nuclear threats posed by Iran, defend Israeli sovereignty, and protect the lives and safety of the Israeli people, including the use of military force if no other peaceful solution can be found within a reasonable time.

      • bobschacht says:

        I think the Military-Industrial Complex is afraid that Obama may actually bail on the current wars, and is desperate to keep America on a war footing, so that it can continue its assault on the Bill of Rights and continue the Eternal War. We are *so* 1984.

        I look at this as a follow-on to Rep. Jerry Nadler’s comment that America is not so good, historically, with the Bill of Rights during War time, citing examples from WW-I and WW-II. We need to move from a “war on terror,” which grants terrorists the cred as warriors in a jihad against American imperialism, to criminalizing the terrorists.

        Bob in AZ

        • Leen says:

          And while I know many issues are talked about and debated at Netroots Nation I know when I looked over the NN schedule the last three years. Nada about our march to either attack Iran or giving Israel our support for an attack has not received attention and the I/P conflict…(silence at NN) Not any different than the MSM.

          Charles Freeman and Stephen Walt both address the march towards a confrontation with Iran.

          Stephen Walt
          http://antiwar.com/radio/2010/07/21/stephen-m-walt/

          Charles Freeman
          http://www.nixoncenter.org/

      • jdmckay0 says:

        Geezus… I’ve seen references about “something” wrt that, first I’ve seen language.

        (4) expresses support for Israel’s right to use all means necessary to confront and eliminate nuclear threats posed by Iran, defend Israeli sovereignty, and protect the lives and safety of the Israeli people, including the use of military force if no other peaceful solution can be found within a reasonable time.

        Rather incredible how US ME policy, in entirety, always is rewound to this exact spot… w/out conditions, and regardless of Israeli crimes. Kind’a looks like after BO gave Netanyahu a few harsh words, the real powers that be have slapped da’ prez back in line.

        Why don’t we just pay our taxes do Knesset and be done w/it… ///???

  15. skdadl says:

    From the way that the Guardian has written up the Manning-Lamo story, I get the distinct feeling that the Guardian writers are unsure whether that was a set-up for Assange. It’s a thought, y’know?

  16. Leen says:

    this is worth listening to

    Charles Freeman 56:50 “the Israeli army has developed a series of techniques of pacification, interrogation, assassination of political opponents, and the use of robotic instruments”

    U.S. applied in Iraq

    One area of Israeli techniques that the U.S. has brought in.

    Charles Freeman 58:oo “are there grave abuses in detention in Israel? Yes that is well documented. Have there been grave abuses in detention in territories that we occupy? There is a relation between the two”

    http://pulsemedia.org/2010/07/25/israel-strategic-asset-or-liability/#comment-12560

    Tyler Drumhuller at the debate

    • bobschacht says:

      Jason,
      Great meeting you in person, too! I hope the others that came running up to meet you prove to be good contacts (they were MUCH more interested in you than in me, with good reason!)

      Bob (back in AZ after a loooooong drive)

  17. MadDog says:

    Sorry for the delay in responding but I was hangin’ out over at Siun’s post on WikiLeaks subject.

    Yeah, my tongue-in-cheek statement could of used a snark tag (or two *g*).

    But the fact remains that we naive silly people are playing Loser’s Poker with a cardsharp that cheats.

  18. Mary says:

    Just to toss in with the Wiki releases and the WaPo stories earlier there’s this (Scott Horton on Jeff Stein’s story on Red Star and Mina corp, the recipients of DoD no-bid contracts for, among other things, supplying fuel to the in-jeopardy US airbase in Kyrgyzstan:

    DOD, with strong State Department backing, insisted on exemption from all taxes, customs, duties, and other government charges, not only for themselves but also for Red Star/Mina Corp. The holders of such contracts therefore figured to sweep in staggering profits at little risk.

    One of the major issues hanging over the government contracting process now is “capture”—the revolving door between government service and contractors, which leads to the writing of contracts that are unnecessary or commercially unfavorable to the taxpayer. In this case, a number of figures at Red Star/Mina Corp. appear to have been in government service just before Red Star/Mina Corp. emerged in this business line with a healthy portfolio of government fuel-supply contracts.

    Unsurprisingly, from the Dannehy-Durham-Margolis crew

    …the other obvious issue for Congress: “’The heart of the investigation,’ the source said, ‘is why Red Star and Mina Corp. were not investigated under’ the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, which forbids U.S. companies from paying bribes or kickbacks to foreign officials.” As I noted in congressional testimony, the Justice Department was fully informed about the contracts in 2005–06, established the links between those contracts and entities controlled by former President Akayev, and even froze his U.S. bank accounts. But it evaded all queries about Red Star/Mina Corp. when investigators for Kyrgyzstan asked about their role. This points to something very screwy in the Justice Department’s interpretation and application of the FCPA.

    What a surprise – reinterpretation, mis- and non-application etc. all to benefit the Exec branch agencies engaged and their corporate laundromats.

    • Leen says:

      Bradley Manning’s Gift

      http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2010/07/25/bradley-mannings-gift/
      “They said the huge cache of classified documents – including 250,000 diplomatic messages passed from US embassies around the world to Washington – was a fantasy, “boasting” by Pfc. Bradley Manning, the intelligence analyst who gave Wikileaks that video of US soldiers laughing and shouting “good shot!” as they mowed down Iraqi civilians. The “hi tech” media, especially Wired magazine, did everything they could do discredit and smear him, including spreading rumors about his alleged sexuality. Now, with the release of over 91,000 internal US government communications, intelligence analyses and incident reports via Wikileaks, the motive behind the determined effort to smear Manning and shut down Wikileaks is all too apparent.”
      ——————————————————–

      Afghanistan war logs: our selection of significant incidents

      The full leaked database contains 92,201 records of individual events or intelligence reports. This is our selection of 300 of the key ones.

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/datablog/interactive/2010/jul/25/afghanistan-war-logs-events

      • ghostof911 says:

        The nation will be better served if the Department of Defense were abolished. From the Joint Chiefs of Staff to the newly recruited enlisted persons, all need to be dismissed and put on paid leave until their contracts expire. All will then be eligible for unemployment compensation.

        All the military hardware can be sold off as scrap metal.

        Defense of the “Homeland” can be outsourced to the Mexicans.

      • ghostof911 says:

        The Defense Department declined a CNN request for comment and did not immediately verify the authenticity of the documents because they had not reviewed them yet, another indication that the Pentagon was unprepared for the release.

        But the DOD had plenty of advanced warning about the attack on the towers, since the Secretary of Defense was helping to call the shots.

      • klynn says:

        Hey Leen,

        I’ve been doing some research. Has Wikileaks ever done anything on Israel?

        I am not finding any leaks of docs about Israel?

        • Leen says:

          Not that I know of. Charles Freeman sure focused on Israel’s detention practices in the debate at the Nixon Center. Don’t think Wikileaks has ever touched the issue of torture in Israeli detention centers. But Charles Freeman recently did
          ———————————————————

          This morning
          NPR focusing on the “Pakistan working with Taliban” part of the Wikileaks drop. Not the potential US war crimes part.

          BBC’s Clair Baldeson kept trying to say that there is not much in this drop that we all ready do not not know. As if the MSM has ever let the American public know what is really going on in Afghanistan or Iraq.
          ————————————————

          *Charles Freeman at the Nixon Center
          “Charles Freeman 56:50 “the Israeli army has developed a series of techniques of pacification, interrogation, assassination of political opponents, and the use of robotic instruments”

          U.S. applied in Iraq

          One area of Israeli techniques that the U.S. has brought in.

          *Charles Freeman 58:oo “are there grave abuses in detention in Israel? Yes that is well documented. Have there been grave abuses in detention in territories that we occupy? There is a relation between the two”

          http://pulsemedia.org/2010/07/25/israel-strategic-asset-or-liability/#comment-12560

          Tyler Drumhuller at the debate

        • bobschacht says:

          This morning
          NPR focusing on the “Pakistan working with Taliban” part of the Wikileaks drop. Not the potential US war crimes part.

          I’m listening to NPR right now and they did discuss potential war crimes.

          Bob in AZ

  19. JasonLeopold says:

    From Ambinder over at The Atlantic re: Wikileaks docs:

    There are about 100 detailed references to something called “OCF” detainee transfers to the Bagram Theatre Internment Facility. OCF stands for “Other Coalition Forces.” Other Coalition Forces is the approved euphemism for special forces units, usually belonging to the Joint Special Operations Command. Researchers can now begin to track the dates when people disappeared and when they were transferred. By the time of the strategy turn, there were more than 750 people in custody in Bagram, out of more than 4,500 detainees that were there at one point. Where did the rest go? When where they released?

    • JasonLeopold says:

      and…

      There are references to operating locations of “OGA.” OGA is how the military refers to the Central Intelligence Agency. There are also date-specific references to CIA human intelligence sources providing specific pieces of intelligence at particular times, thus potentially identifying the sources.

  20. bobschacht says:

    And I enjoyed spending good time with Rosalind, Bob Schacht, and Garrett.

    EW was generous with her time and attention as well with my wife Nel, and even with 8-year-old grandson Kyle. They are not as political as I am, but they enjoyed meeting Marcy, Rayne, and Rosalind, the Keynote speech on Thursday evening, and the grand finale on Saturday (especially Sen. Franken’s speech.) Kyle even sat with me through Darcy Burner’s excellent session on Afghanistan.

    I think Nel and Kyle are beginning to understand why I’m interested in these things. Maybe I need to ask Cassie’s advice on how to bring Kyle along to the next level…

    Bob in AZ

    • emptywheel says:

      Kyle’s willingness and ability to sit quietly through such things reminded me of Rayne’s kids’ superb behavior when they were about his age (or slightly older). It’s great to meet such well-behaved and engaging kids.

  21. Neil says:

    Why now?

    Key omission in memo to destroy CIA terror tapes

    By MATT APUZZO and ADAM GOLDMAN
    The Associated Press
    Monday, July 26, 2010; 3:18 AM

    WASHINGTON — When the CIA sent word in 2005 to destroy scores of videos showing waterboarding and other harsh interrogation tactics, there was an unusual omission in the carefully worded memo: the names of two agency lawyers. read more

    What was the timing between the court order to preserve the tapes and the events described in this article?

    David Addington, a former CIA lawyer who was Vice President Dick Cheney’s legal counsel, was stunned that videos existed, officials said. But he told Muller not to destroy them, and Bellinger and White House counsel Alberto Gonzales agreed, according to documents and interviews with former officials.

    That order stood for more than a year. Muller’s successor, John Rizzo, received similar instructions from the next White House counsel, Harriet Miers: Check with the White House before destroying the tapes.

    All the while, courts and lawmakers looking into detainee treatment were unknowingly coming close to the tapes:

    Things that make you go HMMMM: Rodriguez destroys the tapes and then gets hired as a contractor at the CIA.

    Why would the AP claim it’s research on tape destruction reveals how difficult it will be for DOJ to make a case? “The Associated Press has compiled the most complete published account to date of how the tapes were destroyed, a narrative that among other things underlines the challenges prosecutors face in bringing charges.”

    This one caught my eye: “Officers began videotaping to prove that Zubaydah arrived in Thailand wounded and to show they were following Washington’s new interrogation rules.” This and many other reports assert the CIA didn’t trust the WH and so got verifiable permission every torturous interrogation action it took. If the tapes indemnified the CIA and its contractors, why would the CIA have motive to destroy them?

    “Almost as soon as taping began, officials began discussing whether to destroy the tapes. Dozens of officers and contractors appeared on the tapes. If those videos surfaced, officials feared, nearly all those people could be identified.” Seriously? they had legal opinions from OLC and WH authorization that protected them (unless they routinely expanded their technique to include unapproved torture techniques.)

    Finally notice Appuzzo and Goldman’s diction when they describe the activities being taped. I thought the revisionist debate over whether waterboarding is torture was decided, and that US newspapers should call it torture whether it happens at the hands of CIA, contractors or foreign agents:

    HARSH: “waterboarding and other harsh interrogation tactics”
    AGGRESSIVE: “The destruction of the tapes wiped away the most graphic evidence of the CIA’s now-shuttered network of overseas prisons, where suspected terrorists were interrogated for information using some of the most aggressive tactics in U.S. history. ”
    SEVERE:”the Bush administration allowed increasingly severe tactics to try to ensure cooperation. “

    • emptywheel says:

      I’ll have a few words about this later. But I do think the story largely replicated the CIA line about why the tapes were destroyed (and–in an article claiming to be the most complete–ignored some points about timing I’ve already written about).

      But I will say this–I’m increasingly getting the feeling that there WILL be some movement on this front, and possibly in a positive direction–in the near future. That is, the timing seems to be coming from the investigation itself and may be an attempt to solidify the CIA narrative before it does.

    • Mary says:

      They’ve tried to slide this in under the radar, haven’t they?

      Random thoughts –

      *No one has ever questioned DOJ on its total lack of preservation notices with respect to its torture program. They pick and choose things like the squishy issues of whether or not the torture memos were well written, and leave all kinds of hard issues – like the very clear duties to preserve evidence and for attorneys to put their client on notice of its duties to preserve – hanging. There’s lots of reference to things like whether or Addington “said” they should be preserved, but he was OVP and that wasn’t in writing. Ashcroft, Thompson, later Comey, Bybee, Yoo, Goldsmith, the EDVA guys looking into criminal referrals, etc. – there were a slew of DOJ lawyers directly involved in the torture programs who should have issued written preservation notices – where are they? Why don’t they ever get asked about? Not a very squishy area, that one. Emails, videotapes, etc. – DOJ sat back through the destruction of all kinds of evidence, without any written preservation notices ever being produced.

      *IMO, Bellinger’s “offhand” questions wasn’t offhand at all – he knows what he and NSC did and per the OPR investigation and Bybee’s interview, Bellinger is the guy who deliberately cut Taft and State out of the loop on the torture memos. His question wasn’t a question – it was an invitation to make things go away IMO. He had a vested interest in wanting those things to go away.

      * AP doesn’t do much with the passing reference to Rodriguez’s female COS. Mayer’s book links the female CIA officer who flew to watch KSM be waterboarded for funsies (and got a censure for it) to the female CIA officer who forced the torture of el-Masri and wouldn’t let him go even when it was clear he was a mistake. There are also stories of Rodriguez sending a female officer to oversee the tape destruction for him. EW will probably recall much better than I do (or maybe even have some materials on it) but IIRC (maybe Mayer’s book, maybe something else?) there have been some allusions to the possiblity that the person overseeing the tape destruction was the same el-Masri torture girl and that her “covert assignments” have been strung out by CIA primarily to protect her from publication of her relationship to lots of misfeasance andto (successfully) keep el-Masri from having any recourse bc she’s such a “state secret” Apparently Obama and Panetta have continued the protectionist course.

      *As bmaz has pointed out over and over, even without a court order (and list of “technical”reasons the CIA felt it didn’t have to comply with court orders isn’t real persuasive) the tapes were required to be preserved as evidence necessary for Zubaydah and Nashiri. Unless they were planning on doing something other than even a military commission.

      *Dozens of contractors – that’s another point that doesn’t get made often. I’ve pointed out before that OLC isn’t allowed to give opinions for the benefit of nongov actors, like contractors. So no contractor involved in any of this could even begin to claim cover of OLC opinions. No one in Congress actually or competently briefed, but dozens of contractors involved.

      *More bailout of lawyers. The article acknowledges that Eatinger and Hermes ok’d the tape destruction but then on investigation claimed they thought he was only going to use their advice to *tee up* more discussions on the tapes, bc they WERE AWARE WHEN THEY GAVE THEIR ADVICE OF PREVIOUS ORDER NOT TO DESTROY THE TAPES.

      “Both Eatinger and Hermes remain with the agency and were not available to be interviewed. Both have told colleagues they believed Rodriguez was merely teeing up a new round of discussions about the tapes and, because of previous orders not to destroy the tapes without White House approval, they were unaware that Rodriguez planned to move immediately, officials told the AP.”

      But you know, *technically* Muller should be protected bc *technically* there were no court orders violated and *technially* Eatinger and Hermes should be protected bc *technically* there were no court orders and they didn’t really think their advice would be followed. Uh huh.

      Oh, and the dozens of CIA agents have to be protected, bc they were undercover. And the dozens of contractors were … uh, somethingorother. And of course, the COS who was overseeing the destruction has to be protected, bc she’s undercover. Still. For years now. Despite knowing that she will knowingly violate direct orders from the WH. Really?

      And Rodriguez lawyer says Jose was only working in the best interests of the US and its people when he destroyed the tapes. Or, restated in a contemporaneous email describing Jose’s statements from the time:

      “As Jose said, the heat from destroying is nothing compared to what it would be if the tapes ever got into public domain – he said out of context, they would make us look terrible; it would be devastating to us,” John’s e-mail reads.

      The bizarre references to using Sarbanes-Oxley as the only option for going after the destruction indicate that the fix is in for all the lawyers who have been involved in the torture programs. If you look at the very real obligations of the DOJ lawyers to insure that information relating to Zubaydah’s torture be preserved to prevent obstruction in his civlian or commission trial – then you open up all kinds of other problems, from the missing emails to the law licenses of people up to and including former AGs.

      That’s not gonna happen.

      So some bizarre Sarbannes-Oxley approach that causes many more problems than it solves and may therefore be more legitimately attacked – that’s the upshot of all this. While the undercover operative who destroys torture evidence, takes torture field trips, arranges for the torture of innocent Germans, and openly defies direct WH orders – – continues on, protected by an undercover status that Obama and Panetta haven’t done anything about.

    • Leen says:

      Assange was on BBC this morning. Clair trying to spin it as “what is new here” Assange focused on potential war crimes

      Over at Foreign Policy
      The logs of war: Do the Wikileaks documents really tell us anything new?
      http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/07/25/the_logs_of_war

      As if the American public has been swamped with coverage about the deaths, injured, tortured and displaced in Iraq and Afghanistan in our MSM. What bull

  22. Leen says:

    Really seems like the strategy is going to be “what is new here” We all ready knew all of this. As well as the American people. You know the MSM has all ready exhausted these stories. What a bunch of hooey

    Yawn say the American people. More death, more torture, more doors being knocked down, more Afghani pregnant women being shot by special forces. Yawn go to get to the mall

  23. Mary says:

    Well, I’ve cross-commented with EW. I’ll be looking forward to the post! I have to say, though, I’m not wildly optimistic about anything much happening, especially once I saw the SOX bit.

    • klynn says:

      Odd that that info comes out the same time as the Wikileak material? Question is, “Is one meant to be a shiny object?”

      Thanks for the info Neil.

  24. eclectablog says:

    My flight back was smooth, uneventful and arrived early. Everything my flight TO Vegas was not!

  25. jdmckay0 says:

    Just for last crowning comment of skepticism / disgust: had I been there and subject to enduring BO’s “message”, I would’ve booed the roof off the damn place. Could have heard my howls in DC.

    When he said: “We’re not done yet”, sent shivers down my spine and anger up it… listening to that thing the very definition of getting punked.