Amy Klobuchar Shreds Coburn’s “Concept of Freedom”
Senator Coburn spent about 20 straight minutes today whining to Elena Kagan about how much less freedom we have today than we did 30 years ago.
Which Amy Klobuchar promptly shredded–by far the highlight of today’s hearing. As she points out, back in Coburn’s idyllic free time, women were not represented on the Supreme Court–and barely were in Congress. (Though, note, she corrected herself later–Senator Kassebaum was serving in the Senate already by 1980.)
But then what would you expect from one of the C Street boys, huh?
As Senator Coburn is the heaviest of PAYGO proponents in the Senate, I’m only surprised he didn’t insist on being financially reimbursed for his lamented losses.
How many of those bills abridging our rights and freedoms did Coburn support with his votes or his sponsorship?
If the answer is any number over zero, we should be pointing at him and laughing.
Measure Number: H.R. 6304 (Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 )
Coburn voted Yea…[along with-among 67 others-Sen. Obama.]
Totally OT – EW, given that your memory is far superior to mine, have we ever seen this document before? – Via the ACLU:
Transcript of a closed-door hearing before the District Judge Hon. Alvin Hellerstein (48 page PDF)
Part of it concerns a discussion of the still classified and unreleased “Item Number 61” document which is a “Directive signed by President Bush that grants CIA, the authority to set up detention facilities outside the United States and/or outlining interrogation methods that may be used against Detainees.”
Something related, MadDog. Study from Harvard on how “torture” has changed.
Torture at Times: Waterboarding in the Media
LINK.
I think that might have been the primary topic of EW’s previous post, doncha think? *g*
Oh, yeah. It just means so much to see this subject approached from other angles and reviewers. The more the better. Repetition of the truth never hurt, particularly in this era of the M$M and lies from officials.
Oh-ho, I see what you mean now. I hadn’t clicked on the link in the Torture-McCain article, though noted it was to GG, so thought I was actually pointing to something new. You excel at the gentle admonishment. Thnx.
There is a Book Salon this weekend at FDL with Barry Eisler for his latest work ,Inside Out. (Jeff Kaye has a thread up over at Seminal,with more particulars.)
Truthout did an excerpt this past weekend. Much of the dialog here about the media’s shading of the term “waterboard” is eerily reminiscent of the dialog of the fictioinal characters.
To wit:
. “But what do we do when they start asking about waterboarding? You know they will.”
“Of course they will. And when they do, you reluctantly admit it. It’s already out there anyway, the vice president himself acknowledged it. This is your chance to tie the waterboarding to just a small number of detainees, your chance to minimize it. That’s actually a win.”
“Doesn’t sound like a win,” Alkire said.
Idiots. “You can’t cover this up, don’t you understand that? If you try, the whole thing comes out. What you can do is channel the information, shape the narrative. You need to manage this story or it’ll manage you. Do it right, keep it simple, and you’ll be fine.”
Barry Eisler’s New Thriller Draws Upon US Torture Program – 5 hours ago
Barry Eisler’s new novel, Inside Out, was released in stores yesterday, and is already climbing the book sales charts. An excerpt from the novel was posted …
Firedoglake (blog) – 5 related articles »
If Coburn was out of the Senate, or in jail He wouldn’t be there still causing problems.
Taking subsidised rent and not reporting it is a crime, it’s not just a BOO BOO, but these people get away wiith everything and Keep their jobs on top of it. It’s tax evaision, plain and simple, and should be prosicuted.
Not one of us could get away with this.
EW, pardon me for bustin’ in on this thread, but does this story have anything to do with that weird DARPA plan you discussed a few days ago (turning troops into social workers or social workers into troops–whichever way it goes):
Obama: ‘Civilian expeditionary force’ can aid wearied troops
LINK.
Excuse me, but do you believe we are more free now than 30 years ago?
I do not see the relevance between the fact that there were not many women in positions of political power 30 years ago and the constant attack on our civil liberties and rights by Congress and SCOTUS over the last 30 years.
If there is a connection, would you explain it to me? Please?
This may not be the connection you are seeking but when was the last time you waited for the next elevator because entering this one would put you alone with an unknown male? Women simply do not have the same ‘civil rights’ as we men do. And they will not have until society decides to provide for them the same freedom from fear of violence that we men enjoy.
Perhaps it is a girl thing. Some of us think that if we are not allowed to practice our profession, then we do not have freedom; of choice, pursuit of happiness, freedom to prosper, freedom to live up to our potential, freedom to live the American dream. If we are forced to play second, third or thousandth fiddle, then we are hardly free. When we are full citizens of our country, we are also free to help maintain the freedoms of the rest of society…as EW and the crew do daily on this site.
Just my take on it.
Yeah, but I guess according to some people, we just don’t frickin’ count.
What Amy, Marcy and I all see — and what Amy lit into — was a privileged rich white male lamenting the erosion of rich white male privilege, which he concealed by speaking in code.
Agreed.
Bob in AZ
Precisely, it was the rich, white privileged male lamenting the loss of his absolute God given right to be superior by birth, as a rich white male, that he was lamenting. It is that he can no longer just come out and say that it is a woman’s place to be in the kitchen, and/or that black people look good hanging from trees. All these freedoms has he lost. He has not lost is money. He has not lost his undue power. He can still withhold from saving the poor unemployed, while stealing their wealth for is corporate rich white colleagues. He is probably not worried about the CIA listening to his conversations, but is very glad they are listening to “those” people, (insert underclass of the day). This is the code that Amy spoke to, and EW acknowledged. This is what we heard, because we have heard it before, everyday for all of our lives.
Yeah, but you know what? That’s just his perception because he has to sit back and allow women, and minority women at that, onto the Supreme Court and share the sacrosanct Senate elevator with Jews!! As a white guy almost sixty years old the only thing that’s changed (which is hardly ever admitted) is the class structure in this country. The lower class now contains lots and lots of white former middle managers who didn’t lose their jobs because of affirmative action but because of globalization.
It’s always been a class issue going back to the days after the civil war. The old southern politicians knew they had to keep the newly-freed blacks away from the piss poor whites or the whites would realize they were getting screwed as badly as the freedmen. So the literacy tests and property qualifications that were used to keep blacks from voting were kind of winked at when it came to white trash who didn’t know how to read.
And we’ve come full circle because the quality of graduates is declining steadily. It’s no longer a joke that cash register keys have pictures on them. More than half of the people, adults and kids, who I run into in stores are completely flummoxed if you try to help them out by giving them some combination of money other than what the amount displayed is. Forget about doing math in your head… some of them just freeze up.
Great post, Matt.
BTW, there is a fascinating Wiki about an Afrcan American Governor of Louisiana,during the Reconstruction period after the Civil War…and he was a…Republican,no less.
P. B. S. Pinchback – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia A Republican, he served as the 24th Governor of Louisiana …. The Louisiana Native Guards: The Black Military Experience During the Civil War. …
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P._B._S._Pinchback – Cached – Similar
OT – Just in from the Los Angeles Times:
And more detail from Kimberly Dozier of AP (formerly with CBS):
You can view the video of Leiter’s Q&A here.
Michael Leiter is one interesting dude, MadDog. This from wiki alone.
~!@#$%^&*()_!!!
There’s a HUGE difference between an armed, trained police officer facing someone with a gun, and a guy in Nevada (or wherever) remote-driving an armed drone.
The guy driving the drone will have all the protection the government can provide, just to keep his actions secret from the legal consequences.
The police officer is a lot more likely to get killed, and he’ll have to face an investigation if he shoots the guy, no matter how justified he is.
Because killing people shouldn’t be the first line of your defense; that’s why we have diplomats, to keep people from starting expensive unnecessary wars.
Interesting that Leiter was a Bush appointee and he is having to defend (if that’s what you call what he did) the Bush policy during this administration. I can’t figure if that’s just desserts or just a big dodge.
Sorry to differ, but Amy missed Coburn’s point. He was talking about the base level of freedom.
Yes, some people have been brought up to a point more equal with the general population, but the freedom of the general population has gone down.
You might say, the amount of freedom possible is lower for all.
So, the new participants now have a seat at a table which is lower.
For the new participants, great, for the overall picture, not so great.
THAT was Coburn’s point. You might disagree with his point, but that was it and Amy did not really address it.
From your point of view, when you have people tortured and print newspapers are not calling it that and the government–both old and some new–support it, you have a situation where freedom is now a piece of chocolate covered dog shit as opposed to a nice chocolate frosted doughnut.
Yeah, if you weren’t getting anything before, you might be happy with your chocolate covered dog shit, but that doesn’t alter the fact it’s chocolate covered dog shit.
You’re still missing it.
We have less freedom now, because
we can’t afford to change jobs,
we can’t afford to move to someplace where things might be better,
we’re treated as suspects if we try to fly anywhere,
we have to watch what we say because the government is listening to our phone calls and reading our e-mails and blog comments (Hi, NSA Guy!), and
the president can decide that we’re aiding terrorism based on no evidence whatsoever and have us jailed or killed on his say-so without any judges or lawyers involved. And no appeal available. And no trial, because we’re too dangerous to try.
Agreed, also with bob@25. This is the kind of gotcha celebration that ultimately drove me from Digby’s – too much of it, and the S/N ratio becomes prohibitive. I barely have time to track the crimes of the powerful, I am happy to leave the transgressions of the currently irrelevant to the bit bucket. Especially if it’s a case of accidental truth about a development that featured Coburn as one of the perps.
Let’s talk 80’s:
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-179es.html
It seems to me you are making the exact same point as I was.
The fact some people are doing better regarding freedom does not change that nearly everyone is overall less free.
More seats at an overall lower table.
Great to have more seats at the table, but let’s RAISE the table.
People first have to get out of the seats and stand up, tear up the short table and then build a nice, solid taller one with room for all. How about we call it the Constitution?
That’s ridiculous. Name something you were free to do 30 years ago that you can’t do today.
What a coincidence as PBS is doing a feature that includes the early presence of Jews in the major leagues…where there were still no Blacks.
I think that Amy’s pretty cool. And, she’s in a position to do more than just judge people from the comfort of her desk top.
Isn’t this the blog that decries DOJ protection of BushCo excesses of power, such as warrantless wiretapping, placing American citizens on hit lists without even an arrest warrant, limitless detention policies, and continuing the practice of sending people to foreign countries for torture without any due process?
Why don’t we agree with Republicans when they lament our loss of freedoms instead of piling on with Obama-Pelosi declarations about all the more important things we are doing, so taking impeachment and war crimes off the table is a laudable example of looking forward, not backwards?
Are you really telling us not to worry about the erosion of our rights, because we are accomplishing Great Things while shredding the Constitution?
Bob in AZ
Bob, you know and I know that Coburn wasn’t lamenting what you, I and EW lament. He was, in fact, dogwhistling like crazy — much as Sessions et al were doing with their attacks on Thurgood Marshall.
That’s true, but some conservatives like Bruce Fein are singing the same tune as we are. Or at least kinda mostly. We need to be looking for the “strange bedfellows” thing that Jane Hamsher and Glenn Greenwald forged.
Bob in AZ
Wow — both Al and Amy kicked Neo-Confederate ass today. After Al got done with the Stainless Banner crowd, I doubt that any of them will ever utter the words “Thurgood Marshall” again.
Do you know a link to what Al said?
I was already in the military when women got the right to have their own credit card, sign a contract by themselves, and a lot of other financial transactions we take for granted today.
Up until 1970, only one woman per military service was allowed to be at the rank of Colonel (highest rank permitted). If they left the one job allowed to be Colonel and stayed in the service, they had to drop back to Lt Col. Women were not allowed to get housing allowance, unless they could prove they provided more than 1/2 the income coming into the family. A man could have a wife making more than he, but he could still receive housing. Ruth Bader Ginsburg represented the defendent that caused these inequities to be overturned.
Yes, our government can spy on us without court oversight, something I strongly disagree with, but we, particularly women, have a lot more freedoms now than before.
This sounds like that propertarian argument that women were more “free” in the 19th century because of lower taxes.
But what they are really saying is that the loss of freedom is more important if it might hurt white men, who are the only people that matter.
Nothing like being told by the police, while you’re desperately gripping the phone in the very early hours of the morning with blood streaming down (facial wounds bleed profusely), “We don’t get involved in martial disputes.” If that phone call occurred today, even if placed by a neighbor, the police are required to respond. At least in the state where I now live.
I meant “marital,” though it did seem martial at the time.
{{{{{faster}}}}}
Oh, thank you, dear harpie. Millions upon millions have been through much worse–and it’s because of them that we keep putting so much energy into making the world a better place.
OT — Happy Dominion Day to all my fellow Canucks at EW’s place. If you’re in Toronto, whatever you do, don’t sing Oh Canada — it’s a sign for the cops to charge.
As I wrote to fatster last night, Toronto still = FUBAR. Anyone who wants to wade through a video summary of the mess could watch torontoist’s collection of the fourteen essentials, although there are links to even more there. (See #11 for the Oh Canada moment.)
Was just bringing a headline over here about the rape threats, when I saw your comment, skdadl, and links to the that impressive collection of videos. Just ghastly, all of it, with the exception of the one video at the end which shows the peaceful protestors reclaiming their city on the day after G20.
Really remarkable set of videos, skdadl. I don’t think I like your Mayor Miller, though.
Donno if skdadl mentioned this – but Mayor Miller is supposed to have begun his political career as a socialist … at least a memeber of the Canadian NDP – the nominally socialist party.
I am so proud to be living in the great State of Minnesota. How many other states can boast of not one but two more thoughtful,well spoken and intelligent US Senators than Amy Klobuchar and Al Franken ? I hope they will both serve their constituents for many years to come.