Apparently Missing Biblical Irony, Nuclear Power Israel Complains about Slingshot Attacks
As Siun reported earlier, last night some Israeli commandos attacked some humanitarian ships bringing supplies to Gaza. A number of civilians were killed.
Since then, the IDF has released a series of videos, captioned in English, apparently attempting to spin their own raid as an attack on the poor defenseless Israelis. I found this one–in which a latter-day Israeli Goliath complains about the slingshots civilians used to defend themselves–particularly ironic.
I read that report about the slingshots earlier and thought the same thing. I can’t believe Obama would carry on ‘business as usual’ with the Israelis after this. Then again, I wouldn’t be surprised if he did either.
Obama considers Israel politically and strategically “astute” and believes those who control the government of Israel to be completely “trustworthy”.
Mark from Ireland pointed out earlier today, @7 Siun’s post, “… that fewer and fewer Arabs distinguish between Americans and Israelis – and objectively they are right.”
DW
Even Petraus understood that
Btw, sorry I went AWOL for a few days. Ended up at my 20th college reunion.
You were missed.
Bmaz and the other commenters did ya proud.
You were missed. [Read: we lost da fookin’ HatPin]
What’s to be sorry about?
When forced to choose between NATO (Turkey) and AIPAC, what will O do?
Stall.
Bibi has canceled tomorrow visit. I wonder who made that decision. Meanwhile, Turkish bases are locked up as Turks protest Israeli properties in the country. I guess a blockade was worth more than easy relations with one of its Muslim neighbors.
CNN is reporting that most of the casualties were Turks. Turkey is going apoplectic over the Israeli attack, and Turkey is the only Islamic country that had had decent relations with Israel. Now, that is in jeopardy. This is another indication that Israel has screwed itself.
Bob in AZ
By Islamic are you considering Jordan and Egypt secular?
Oops. I was stenographing CNN. Apologies.
Bob in AZ
Right. Plus, since it’s an attack on Turkey, it’s an attack on NATO. Turkey could cause some real headaches by invoking Article 5.
If memory serves, then the first, and only time, so far, that Article 5 was invoked was in response to nine-eleven …?
Yes. [emphasis added][page pdf 16]
http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/ssi/full_report_marty_060807.pdf?hpid=topnews
Text of NATO statement to press:
http://www.nato.int/docu/speech/2001/s011004b.htm
Thank you, Harpie!
Now, back to read it.
DW
Actually, the Israelis have been pissing off Turkey for some time now, with their support for the Kurdish separatists in Northern Iraq. Turkey is at the pivot point for the U.S. war drive against Iran. The government there appears to have stalled another military Gladio coup with their ongoing investigations of the right-wing, Ergenekon terrorist organization, which had roots in much of the Turkish state and business-academic establishment.
While I find it unlikely the U.S. did not have advance notice of this attack, and drone/satellite footage of it, it cannot be happy over the immediate fallout. Watch for the U.S. to do what Netanyahu already is, direct the attention to Iran/Al Qaeda/Hamas, along with some hazy head-shaking at the “tragedy” over the loss of life. (I’ve covered some of the latter here.)
For you: This is totally OT. Plausible? Outlandish?
It’s total BS, as trichotillomania and OCD are human behavioral or psychological disorders, complex in origin, and not cross-species entities in nature. As one clinician put it at the end of the article:
OCD, btw, is not easily treatable. While Salkovskis is correct that it “can” be treated by CBT, the truth is that only some cases respond to that. Also, we should note, that Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder is a spectrum disorder, in that it presents differently in different people, and has effects that spread from mild to severe.
As a rule of thumb, when it comes to psychiatric “disorders” we should expect that everything about them, from the validity and reliability of the diagnoses, to the clinical presentation, to their sometimes culture-bound manifestations, is incredibly complex, and never reducible to simplistic formulas or “cures”. I’m reminded of a favorite line from Beckett’s great play, Endgame:
Very plausable. Scientific American recently published a paper on a link between a virus and insanity. Bone marrow has a tremendous impact on the immune system.
Ah! Here it is.
Boxturtle (Unsolicited plug: Scientific American is well worth the price of a subscription)
When I said that the origins of mental illness are complex, it includes biological origins. The viral or bacterium theory of the origin of mental illness finds its source in the fact that late stage syphilis can cause psychotic dementia. A hundred years or more ago, this was a common presentation in insane asylums, and was called general paresis.
Indubitably, some forms of what appear to be mental illness can occur due to infection, brain or head injury, virus or bacterial instigation, etc. However, that is a long way from finding that bone marrow transplants in mice, which happen to correct a mice species problem of excessive self-grooming, somehow acts similarly to mechanisms in humans who suffer from pathological hair pulling. The actions of mice and humans with OCD may have some analogies, but the pull to cite a homologous structure that allows for the parallel evolution of these traits all the way back to the common ancestor of the mouse and homo sapiens is certainly lacking of evidence.
IMO, while all mental illnesses are grounded in some physiological aspect of the organism, this is more or less true for all behavioral manifestations, including the typing of this comment. Human traits are interlinked with culture, with the complexities of the human brain, with individual differences between people, etc. I’ve found that most mental illnesses, so-called, are due to the problems and dilemmas of being a human being in a particular environment (a family, a sick culture, in a jail, a rotten job, a bad marriage, etc.).
I can’t access the Sci Am article for which you link, so can’t comment specifically on this. Maybe the link will work later. I feel bad about initiating such an OT discussion on this particular thread, where the issues re the Israeli attack are of such moment, but felt since this is brought up, and is often misunderstood, I’d comment on it.
Could this be seen as a side effect of …boredom?
I agree with you, but this runs contrary to the design philosophy of the DSM. For example, Clinical depression is not supposed to be situational; it is supposed to be a defect in brain function, whether due to bad genes, or a chemical imbalance, or whatever. The idea is that a clinical diagnosis is supposed to reveal a defect in the person. It’s mostly based on a medical model.
Diagnostic criteria are not supposed to depend on environmental circumstances, but increasingly environmental issues are creeping into the diagnostic criteria.
Sorry for extending the O/T discussion.
Bob in AZ
The DSM is a melange of different theories and outlooks, although you are correct it is primarily based on biological psychiatry (though it does allow, by the by, for the existence of so-called culture-bound syndromes). The internal contradictions to its supposed scientific structure are profound and far-reaching, not least in its bifurcation into Axis I and Axis II (personality disorder) divisions.
No one I know in clinical work takes the work seriously, and its never used as the basic text in, for instance, a decent psychopathology course. Researchers, well, that’s a different story…
Maybe, but the insurance industry demands a DSM (or ICD 9 CM) diagnosis if you want compensation for any treatment. So, they have to take it seriously enough to know which code to use to justify billing.
Bob in AZ
And I do. When I have to, I play by the game, but I never mistake the DSM diagnosis for an actual psychological understanding of the person I’m sitting with.
Turkey will probably do the same thing we did when it was done to us, which was basically nothing. Especially since Obama and the rest of NATO will apply considerable pressure on Turkey to turn the other cheek.
The Turkish government was/is likely trying to get cred with its own religious right. They aren’t so bright either.
Time for a
bitripartisan commission- say Joe Lieberman, Jane Harman and Mel Sembler.Hey wait a minute. I resent my Senators, DiFink and Boxer aren’t on the commission to be. Israel uber alles is their theme song (well if there was such a song).
Yes, this massacre is abhorrent.
But Israelis ARE fearful of their surroundings, and simply condemning their actions won’t ease those fears.
And most anti-immigrant Americans, I’m guessing, are truly afraid of what immigration will do to jobs and our culture.
We need to assuage fears and offer a clear path forward to sunlit uplands. Then we’ll win votes.
Most anti-immigrant Americans seem to only be against non-white immigrants. Jobs are secondary, just an excuse, because a lot of the undocumented are in jobs that don’t pay much, or that the people complaining wouldn’t take unless they were desperate.
Interesting characterization. Would that offering include some economic stability as well as socio-political rapprochement? How is this denouement to be framed?
What source of optimism (in contrast with an objective view of the world that elicits pessimism) could motivate and inspire the “Animal Spirits” to take positive action?
In the macro-world, the words and actions of individuals really do impact the debate…
The Impact of the Irrelevant on Decision-Making
A nice turn of phrase might inspire a population to spend, save, or revolt just as the debate is framed by truth or lies… All for what — license to consume conspicuously?
Cue the choir Mr. Purple Dinosaur …”I love you, you love me, we’re a hap-py fam-il-ly”.
“Then a shot rang out, and Barney hit the floor. No more purple Dinosaur.”
Heh!
Baby-Bop will not be harmed!!!
… unless he tries to take a holiday on the Gaza strip.
… or the Fifth Circuit…
The Israelis might not have to be so “fearful of their surroundings” if they didn’t arrogantly and belligerently treat other people like crap.
LOL – You better watch it. You’re making more enemies. Isn’t BP enough for you?
Some one asked you last week about the judge in Houston that BP wanted. Did you ever find out anything?
Not yet. You probably have an idea of who I asked from the Clemens conversations, but no response yet. It is a holiday start of summer though, so I am not too surprised.
Yea, I know who you are referring to.
I’m still not convinved it’s going to be good for BP to do it that way but I don’t know much about the legal inside/outside game. The genreal public seems to be pretty pissed. Whether that diminishes with time I don’t know.
Oh, I kind of agree with your thought in that regard as a general proposition; but I would like an inside read on Hughes.
I totally agree. I’m just asking, what can we say and/or do to win some votes for sanity in Israel and the U.S.?
There must be many many voters in both places who want peace and justice, but are just afraid to vote for our side of things.
Now that is the 64 gazillion dollar question; and i have no clue what the answer is at this point.
You can stop being afraid to speak truth to power.
bingo
Oh and the Israelis are treated so well by anyone else.
It’s interesting that this happens just after Turkey and Brazil come to an agreement with Iran about nuclear fuel enhancement…an agreement that undercuts the next round of proposed sanctions by the Security Council.
The Israelis are claiming that this was an attempted delivery of weapons (rockets, ammunition) to Gaza.
It’s too bad that they’ve lied so much over the last few years, and that they’ve blocked humanitarian aid for no reason other than that they can. It doesn’t help them make a case for any of their actions.
Ah, but the Israelis “can” … because “we” allow it.
DW
Those aren’t battery-powered wheelchairs – they’re mobile WMD delivery systems.
Don’t forget about the alternative usage of those wheelchair parts. There are batteries, joy-stick guidance and control devices, padded seats…
Turkey vehemently insists that it inspected the boats and verified that there were no weapons on board.
Israel has since retreated to the lame excuse that if they let these ships pass, then OTHER ships MIGHT try to break the blockade that MIGHT contain weapons.
I used to be a supporter of the Israel experiment (a kind of Israeli exceptionalism, I suppose). However, Israel has long since demolished the dream, demonstrating that it can be just as venal as any other country.
Bob in AZ
Thanks for the post EW. Thanks for holding down the fort bmaz.
Welcome back EW.
What reason would the Israeli’s have to just go shoot people on the ships?
None. Their only reasonable motive would be to check that weapons aren’t going to Gaza.
What PR motive would the flotilla have for picking a fight with the IDF. Huge.
Sorry EW et al. I’m not convinced.
It doesn’t matter if they had a reason, or even if their reason was reasonable:
The Legal Position on the Israeli Attack; Craig Murray; 5/31/10
“What reason would the Israelis have to shoot people on ships? Their only (reasonable) motive would be to check that weapons aren’t going to Gaza.”
Simplified it for you.
We aren’t discussing the Israelis. We’re discussing commandos carrying out orders shooting first from helicopters to clear the decks and then repelling down to the decks and shooting and killing people. Their commanding officers who ordered them to shoot and the government that ordered their commanding officers to give those orders committed multiple acts of piracy, assault, kidnapping, unlawful imprisonment, and murder. Add torture to that list, if as I suspect, the victims are being tortured to elicit false confessions that support the government’s bullshit lies.
Netanyahu and the Likudnicks are like rabid dogs. They are irrational and the only reason they need to do something atrocious like this is they love to kill Palestinians, Muslims, and their supporters and they believe they can get away it.
All of them from Netanyahu down to the torturers and the shooters should be arrested and prosecuted in the International Court of Criminal Justice.
Just curious — haven’t heard, don’t know — has Netanyahoo taken responsibility for the orders? Or is this going to be like Kent State and Abu Ghraib, darn those bad apples? Or something in between?
That’s the question, isn’t it?
Boarding a vessel under turkish flag in international waters is an act of war, killing civilians in the act is a war crime. Israel can choose to embrace this by insisting that the soldiers were carrying out orders (sounds familiar), or it can try to evade the issue by surrendering to turkish investigation and handing over the suspects to be tried under turkish law for murder, disclaiming government responsibility.
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2010/05/the_legal_posit.html
Turkey would be in its right to demand NATO assistance already, but they have no reasons yet to embarrass the US and the Europeans as long as they have free license to embarrass Israel. The really relevant question is to what extent this incident provides ammunition for the domestic conflict between secular military and non-secular government – in Turkey, not Israel. In Israel, religious fanatics have corrupted both government and military beyond repair.
Another noteworthy irony here: just like Obama’s ad-hoc Git Mo Justice, Israel is adopting the US domestic law enforcement approach: resistance to illegal force is a felony/war crime/terrorist act – insert justification for even more excessive force here. Similarly, the US has adopted the Israeli two-step regarding Hamas and Gaza: no, we are not at war, hence we face terrorists and murderers, not POWs, but yes, we are at war, and hence have a right to blockade. It is very hard to keep illegal occupation legal, apparently.
Yeah, it’s my idea of a fun late night to go against guns with clubs. Get a clue.
What a sorry mess all of this is–with no end in sight! You’d think, as strong a supporter as the US has been to the Israelis, that the US would/could be a voice of restraint, but you’d be wrong.
So happy you’re back, EW. Hope the reunion was great and you received some well-deserved accolades, and rest.
Israel was born from inundation by immigrants who took the land as their Biblical right. At the risk of triggering Godwin’s Law, I offer the following excerpt with two minor substitutions:
__________
“In an era when the earth is gradually being divided up among states, some of which embrace almost entire continents, we cannot speak of a world power in connection with a formation whose political mother country is limited to the absurd area of [twenty eight] thousand square kilometers….
Without consideration of traditions and prejudices, [Israel] must find the courage to gather our people and their strength for an advance along the road that will lead this people from its present restricted living space to new land and soil, and hence also free it from the danger of vanishing from the earth or of serving others as a slave nation….
For it is not in colonial acquisitions that we must see the solution of this problem, but exclusively in the acquisition of a territory for settlement, which will enhance the area of the mother country, and hence not only keep the new settlers in the most intimate community with the land of their origin, but secure for the total area those advantages which lie in its unified magnitude.”
– Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, 1925, pp. 644-653
Not sure if Godwin’s law applies to whole of WW2, and not sure if Turkey is a nuclear country or just hosting US nukes, but, but… if Turkey wanted to nuke Israel, Harry Truman wrote the script [substitute appropriately]:
KABOOM
(sound clip in BBC youtube at 0:53)
I suppose the “reason” of wanting to assert an uber-sovereignty over the international waters of eastern Mediterranean–something which Israel has a history of doing–hasn’t occurred to you? Because that’s what Israel SAYS it was doing–making sure the humanitarian ships can’t come in because that will mean terrorist supporters come in.
If the Israelis wanted to make a statement and asset uber sovereignty over international waters, they would have just sunk the whole floatilla. Seriously if that was their goal why not take the North Korea stance. Would the international community have done anything differently? Besides they already let the supplies into Gaza.
Re:RH Green
They wouldn’t have to shoot people to do that. They would need to defend themselves if there was resistance.
Re: PJ Evans
… and its like there has never been an attempt at a suicide bombing using an ambulance?
Sorry, you’re argument amounts to “they’re too smart to do anything stupid, therefore they must have been provoked by the other guys who are unquestionably nasty”, and is absurd.
Everyone else’s take here seems to be the absolute opposite.
Assume everything Israel does must be because wrong they are “evil”.
I don’t support everything Israel has ever done. I’d like to see them stop settlements among many other things.
However, I’m disappointed at the rush to judgement I see here and on other blogs.
I think you need to get over it. Their actions speak for themselves. Sometimes not a lot of analysis is necessary. This was a clear case of piracy, murder and violations of international law.
I think these actions speak for themselves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo&has_verified=1
… and I won’t get over it until people stop lobbing bombs over into Israel.
What do you see there? I see volunteers on a mission to get help to other people who really need it, being interfered with by an advanced army and bravely using whatever’s laying around to try to make the interference stop. I see nothing that justifies a lethal force response from the army, do you?
LOL – your boys grapple down onto an unarmed ship in international waters and you expect people to not try to defend themselves? Frakking idiot.
Then you justify it by saying folks who make bombs in their garages are a threat to a country that gets the most advanced weapons that I pay for and they use them to subjugate another group of people into modern day slavery. The next time I hope the Turks arm those people and when the grapplers get within 50 feet they deserve a bullet right between the eyes.
Lovely peaceful thought from someone supporting a humanitarian cause.
Asymetric warfare sucks doesn’t it. Perhaps the Israelis could take the easy route and just sink the ship the next time. The international reaction would be the same.
Every deceit you employ and every canard that you raise is further evidence of the mentality and behavior of tyranny, every exception you argue in defense of your “difference” is proof that you chose not to understand, but would rather urge violence, mayhem and murder.
That is the essence of your purported “truth”.
Horsefeathers. If you read the Israeli statements closely, they say only that they will forward allowed humanitarian supplies. But the Israelis get to define what is allowed and what is humanitarian — much of what was on the flotilla (cement, eg) they will never allow through.
Clever of those human-rights workers to force tough Israeli commandos to land on their boats in international waters so that the commandos could face “resistance.”
Are you the designated apologist for enslavement, piracy, murder and …. who knows what else? It must be hard for you to not laugh when you write that crap. I hope you’re paid well.
Oh yes there has never been any murder of Israelis… So many here are never suspicious of people who send suicide bombers into hotels and restaurants in Tel Aviv, but try to board and divert a ship that you think is carrying weapons…. oh no!!!! They probably should have waited until they were 70 miles closer, but I don’t think the outcome would have been different.
Fire at people beating you with clubs??? Can’t do that.
…. and lets not forget all of the “supporters” of Palestinian cause who have more oil money than god. They would rather send weapons than food in order to deflect any attention on their own shortcomings in democratic and liberal principles. That just gets conveniently ignored.
Anyone in international waters is allowed to defend themselves against armed attack.
You do this site a disservice to claim that either the writers for this blog or the commenters have ever claimed the Israelis are “evil,” which you claimed up above.
No one is more critical of the Arab regimes than I am, or of Turkey, for that matter. Their governments are guilty of crimes against their own population the equal to or worse than what the Israelis have perpetuated (think of what the Turks have done to the Kurds), though that is no excuse for the Israeli uprooting of Palestinians, the second-class citizenship, the attacks deep into Lebanon, the siege against Gaza, or this attack.
“Suicide bombers” are no different than anyone sent on a “suicide” mission, which, as anyone who has watched American movies about U.S. soldiers knows is something seen as heroic. However, the deliberate targeting of civilians is a horrible tactic, and almost always illegal by whatever measuring stick of law one uses. Along those lines, the Israeli attack on the flotilla is an attack on a civilian ship, bringing humanitarian supplies the Gaza people, themselves overwhelmingly civilian, who the Israelis have put under a withering siege. The people on that ship had a right to defend themselves, though it’s obvious they were woefully outgunned. My guess is that it was spontaneous outrage.
Meanwhile, how about releasing all the members of that flotilla currently held by the Israelis? How about lifting the crime against humanity that is the Gaza blockade? Note, I’m not saying the Israelis must put down their guns, or not defend themselves. But this long ago stopped being about self-defense, but is about an expansionist policy by the Zionist parties as a means of taking the population’s attention away from economic problems. In that, they are little different than revanchist and expansionist countries across the globe, who see in ethnic cleansing and border expansion some sort of nationalist salvation, when in fact all they reap is endless war and centuries of inter-ethnic hatred.
When you mess with the hornets nest, don’t act surprised when you get stung.
As a reply to my specific comment, your comment is opaque. Just whom are you warning?
“Fire at people beating you with clubs??? Can’t do that. ”
???????????
Didn’t you mean, “Pick up a club to defend yourself when armed commandos assault you in the night in international waters – can’t do that” /s
Seriously – think this on through. You have an armed assault taking place against that flotilla. If you’re on a boat and armed commandos start trying to take it over, you have no right to fight back? You can’t be serious – are you saying that passengers on the Achille Lauro would have been troublemakers and criminals if they’d picked up a bat?
It was a criminal act for armed commandos to launch a night time assault against the aid flotilla in international waters.
I guess one way to avoid having people on an aid flotilla from throwing things at you would be to, oh, I dunno – not launch an armed assault against them?
Criminal act, maybe; act of war, definitely.
Newsflash. Israel considers itself at war.
Newsflash: They are not.
Sure they are, perpetual war, endless war, just like “we” are. And the whole world is a battlefield. The.whole.world. Even on the oceans (or in them, but that is another topic), everywhere there are people who hate the freedom loving, peaceful, un-warlike, generous God-chosen peoples.
America and Israel, hand in hand, we are the over men.
Why OUR laws even say so, we will brook no interference, let no nation dally with the notion of attacking us with kindness, nor plying us with reason, instead, let them remember French Fries!
It wasn’t merely Werner Von Braun we “liberated”.
A certain “dream” lives on.
DW
LOL – yea, and they want me to pay for it. Why doesn’t their god provide them the arms/money they need and leave me out of it?
This is all based on religious bullshit. Simple as that. The Israeli right wing running that country is going to bring them down and then half the Jews on the planet are going to whine about how unfair the world is when they did it to themselves.
Well, as an act of war, it is a war crime (since it involved armed assault on unprotected civilians) so I’ll stick with criminal act as my umbrella, civilian or war crime I’ll leave open.
Israel and all the rest of the world knew that the flotilla involved civilians from around the world and included EU parlimentarians and members of the press as well. There had been lots of discussion in Israel on how to handle the flotilla, which made sure all its actions where widely known and reported at all stages.
Some of the suggestions were interesting and would, imo, have cut some of the “aid activists” off at the knees by making them look very hypocritical. They included things like allowing the flotilla to dock, but to have a big display of rockets that had shelled the area by the docking and to have female Israeli soldiers lined up with letters for the “aid” workers to deliver to the Israeli soldier (Shalit?) who is still being held.
Whoever decided – hey, lets rappel armed commandos in to assault the ships in international waters wasn’t just stupid, they were criminally stupid.
Sport – if you and your people stole my land and water I’d blow your asses up also. Get back within your designated borders and you may be able to get along with people. Keep on with your neocon bullshit, thinking you’re going to get all the land that some imaginary being promised you, and ultimately you’re going to go down. It will go down in history as one of the greatest miscalulations ever. When the US abondons Israel, and it will because it will have no other choice (none of us can really afford it any more), your friends will be left with nothing when they could have had something. And the fault will be no one’s but their own.
I’m far from a neocon, and I’m likely to get into the opposite argument I’m making here with many people.
I just will fight back when I hear crap like this
Israel needs safe borders. As soon as they pulled out of Gaza the bombs started coming over. If that was happening in your back yard you would be on the governments ass to do something about it. You probably wouldn’t give a rats ass about international law either.
THe US isn’t about to abandon Israel. Most of Europe is shitting a brick because it doesn’t want to piss off its muslim population who they would rather see just go away. Its convenient for them to ignore reality and throw Israel under the bus.
And they penned up the people living in Gaza, all of them, and are systematically trying to kill iall of them.
They’ve ignored treaties and UN resolutions in planting illegal settlements in the West Bank, confiscating property that legally belongs to Palestinians.
And you expect their victims to quietly lie down and take whatever the Israelis do?
Man, you have one twisted-up worldview.
You know, all my buddies here at emptywheel (including Emptywheel) are responding with references to international law and treaties showing you the multiple errors or your ways. It seems to me you have lost. They are correct, however, I’m more concerned about something else.
I have a question. It has nothing to do with the law or with treaties. Forgive me if I am wrong, but it seems to me from you commentary that unlike our friends in the Israeli Defense Forces you are a Christian. Many Christians–even if they are not Catholic because I’m going to talk about a Catholic theory–believe in Just War Theory (you can look it up). You wrote above that the Israelis consider themselves at war.
So, my question is, “How do the IDF’s actions in the Med. sea work in a Just War theory world?”
Imminent threat?
Proportional?
Etc.
Ad Naseum.
You are a corrupt piece of stool. There ain’t no hell, but if only you could rot in it.
I wish you well.
Aw, CTMET has been around a good long time and, though he may be wrong (he is) and we may strongly disagree with him (I think most do), is entitled to his opinions. He has not wished ill on anybody here, let us not do that to him.
ah, you are are correct, and I’m not being too clever by half. When one doesn’t believe… In any case, you are correct. My question remains CTMET.
Complete and total bullshit.
I see that for you Israel can do no wrong, ever, even when they’re starving people to death and turning their houses into rubble.
What are you going to tell us when they drop a nuke on Iran?
You are asking us to believe that weapons were being smuggled aboard these boats by people with bad intentions toward Israel even though those same people lacked any weapons with which to inflict harm, except the equivalent of sticks and stones, and no weapons were found on any of the boats.
Rubbish!
Are you suggesting they eschewed guns in favor of ambushing heavily armed commandos with sticks and stones?
Your argument is the most ridiculous and absurd argument I have ever read.
This is nothing but sheer illegal and immoral belligerent aggression by Israel. Sorry, but there are simply no excuses
Yep… nothing belligerant about those guys with the clubs…
People who don’t have real weapons generally pick up whatever they can when they are being aggressively assaulted and killed. You are going to whip out that poor, poor pitiful cafe bombing tripe? Really? These are NOT Palestinians, they are Turks. How many Turks are lobbing bombs from Palestine??
Their god promised them all the land and of course the water that goes along with it. Simple as that. Doesn’t matter if it is Palestinians or Turks that are disobedient to their god. They’re all enemies.
I just wish it was their god that would give them all this money and leave the US out of it. How powerful must this god of theirs be if he needs my money to subjugate and enslave anyone who disagrees with him/her/whatever?
No, just sheer stupidity.
The entire point of this was not to deliver supplier to Gaza. Nobody believed that Israel would allow that convoy through. Especially the Turks.
The point of this was to provoke Israel into doing something stupid enough to get the United States to stop sending Israel money.
So Israel has comitted an act of Piracy at best, an act of war against NATO at worst. But they will get away with it, because congress will support Israel against Scary Brown Moslems every time.
To say Israel didn’t over-react is ridiculous. To say they weren’t provoked, even more so.
And this has advanced the cause of peace in what way? If anything, it has strengthened Bibi and the rest of the “Crush ’em into the sand” crowd. I predict Bibi will be stronger than ever…or someone worse will be…after the next election.
Boxturtle (The single most important thing to advance peace and help Gaza is to de-elect Bibi)
That may be true.
The US and the UK may be the only ones who see (or admit to seeing) that side of the story.
Yeah, how terrible. The Turks “provoked” the nuclear near superpower trying to systematically starve and extinguish a whole people. The Israelis have become that which they made their bones being the victim of. The cycle is complete.
Not quite. We still need Nuremberg.
Boxturtle (Scary Brown Moslems deserve justice too)
We seem to be well on the way. And we still need a new Nuremberg.
Bob in AZ
Jeff Kaye
From Bmaz
Yep Nuremberg talk. No one mentioned Israel being “evil here”
See my #122.
I’m sorry, but this doesn’t make sense. The Israelis implored the Turks to stop the flotilla, but the Turks refused, saying it was a private affair. If the Turks didn’t believe the flotilla would ever be allowed through, then why did they allow it and support it? This would make the Turks the authors of the event, in a way.
I think most of the people on the ship believed the flotilla would be let through. Did some wish for a confrontation or even a martyrdom of sorts, I can’t say and don’t know. Lacking more evidence, one would have to take them at their word, and the anger and passion around the suffering in Gaza certainly would have inspired many involved, who believed they would be let through, or if not, at least not turned away via forceful occupation and attack.
It would seem you may be right, though, that Bibi may come off stronger for all this, but you never know. Politics don’t run according to knowable formulas, no matter what those in power might think. With the recent events in Greece, and the seeming miscalculations on all sides in this flotilla massacre (as two examples only), I think we are heading into a historical period of unstable change, where the old nostrums are going to be challenged, and if we are lucky, new forces emerge that can challenge the status quo here, in the Middle East, and all over the world. Islamic fundamentalism is an historical dead-end, so is Zionism, and for that matter, so is American exceptionalism and dreams of imperial rule.
The only possible silver lining here is this incident may slow down the Israeli’s determination to militarily throw down on Iran.
Will more than likely speed them up. They do not want the world peering into what is really going on in the Gaza, the Goldstone Report, the refugee camps. More light on this may make them feel like they have to move faster on Iran
I hope you are right.
Which, it should be noted, would have an effect of taking pressure off Turkey. I am not so naive as to think there is no possibility of an ulterior, or mixed, motive for Turkey. The I/P conflict is truly the elephant in the region and it makes sense that as Turkey rises (as it has been doing in recent years) it would do whatever it’s able to raise awareness and push events towards some stable resolution.
What interests me more: why has Bibi cancelled meetings with the US when our UN statement is such an ass-kissing? Behind doors, we must have told them something like “Well, what the hell kinda reaction did you expect when you decided to pull that shit, again?” or “Gonna have to take a raincheck on the whole Iran thing ’til this blows over.” Mulling further, one supposes that losing Gulf oil production increases our dependence on the Middle East oil producing countries, further de-leveraging Israel as a power factor.
The Israelis don’t have the capability to ‘throw down’ on Iran. If they did they would have done it a long time ago.
You nailed it, Jeff.
Exactly
This is such a crock of BS. The ships were in international waters. They have a right to defend themselves. Israel has NO RIGHT to invade a civilian ship in international waters.
Unfortunately, this BS about an attacking force having the right to defend itself against people who are defending themselves from attack has also become much too common in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Bob in AZ
I think I see the difference: CTMET appears to posit the resistance itself as criminal, irrespective of any illegality of the force being resisted.
Hmmmm. Where have I heard the phrase “Resistance is futile” before?
Oh, and BTW, resistance to armed attack by citizens in Iraq and Afghanistan also seems to be regarded as criminal by American armed forces. Oh, wait. Criminal is the wrong word in that context.
Bob in AZ
Turkey threatens action; Israel on alert
“Two Turkish activists were reported to be among those killed in the flotilla. Ankara warned that further supply vessels will be sent to Gaza, escorted by the Turkish Navy, a development with unpredictable consequences.”
LINK.
Turkey won’t dare a military confrontation with Israel, IMO, unless they’re ready to invoke article 5. That is for domestic consumption.
My bet is that ObamaLLP would leave NATO rather than defend Turkey against Israel and Turkey knows this. I don’t think Turkey is ready to trash the entire western security alliance for Gaza.
OTOH, as long as Israel gets it’s money (and nobody in Washington is suggesting they won’t), it’ll pretty much dare anything.
Boxturtle (What will the next futile gesture be?)
at the end of the day, there will be at least 10 dead. Another couple dozen in the Israeli prison system, and the rest of the flotilla in a prison camp in the mideast sun. The supplies will not make it to Gaza, unless they follow the normal Israeli process.
The same countries that were angry with Israel prior to this event are still angry. The ones that were working with Israel will make some public expressions, like cancelling military exercises, but will continue quietly working with them.
The monthly cash transfer from the US Treasury to the Israeli Treasury will take place on schedule.
And people are calling this a victory. I think that stunts like this just dim the prospects for long term peace.
Boxturtle (As long as that cash transfer takes place, Israel could care less about anything else)
OT:
I am posting a diary over at the Great Orange Satan, generally about torture and Barack Obama. Y’all here, who know what you are talking about on the subject, are certainly welcome there.
I believe the diary will be here. It’s going up at 4:00 eastern, which is soon. Don’t know what would happen if you click on the link, before it is actually published.
Good Luck ! Most of us avoid DKos cuz it’s futile to say anything against the great Hype, PBO !
If you click on it before it’s published, you get a message that nothing is there (big surprise). I look forward to reading it. You might want to check out my diary from last night there (a reprint of my Seminal/FDL essay), Obama Interrogation Official Linked to U.S. Mind Control Research. It had a modest response, overtaken, and understandably so, by breaking news of the Israeli attack.
Glad to catch up to you here, Jeff … many thanks for all that you do !
US activist loses eye after being shot in face with tear gas canister.
Sickening. Somehow I doubt that Fred Hiatt will nominate her for the Nobel Peace Prize.
Wow. Neda. RIP.
Here’s some of Emily’s artwork.
What an incredible choice of avatar! http://www.blogger.com/profile/09299289431297897163
Kinda perfect in a diary with this name. You’d think this was the Onion, except I just checked in on the Onion and they have nothing on the Israel story. What’s up/down/upside down with the world?
OMG!
no shit
Video from the Israeli helicopter.
And from (apparently) an Israeli boat.
US statement to the UN.
I call Bullshit. If we didn’t have that area covered top to bottom, I don’t know our intelligence agencies. And we are perfectly capable of detecting what goes on inside a ship. I be shocked if we didn’t have at least three cameras on each ship, both visual and IR. Plus the sonics from the subs.
Key Fact: You’ll be ordered to veto any UNSC resolution with teeth.
Key Fact: Not only would congress not cut funding to Israel, there MIGHT be enough votes to impeach Obama if he tries to do something unilateraly. Not that he would, see fact 1 above.
Boxturtle (Conclusion: There’s not enough lipstick in the world for this pig)
Desperate Chinese sailors fight off Somali pirates with beer bottles and Molotov cocktails
Who wouldn’t?
Just like the Goldstone Report on the massacre that took place in the Gaza in two weeks these killings will all be swept under the rug. Hell Rachel, Keith, Ed, most of the heavy hitting progressive bloggers completely ignored this International flotilla carrying humanitarian aid. Ignored it…silence. Now that people have been killed the MSM and others might be all over it for a while anyway. Pathetic.
So Sad for those who have been killed and for their families. This was a peaceful mission…but the Media in the U.S. ignored the flotilla while Gulf oil flow out of their ears, eyes and mouths.
When the media sheds their light on peaceful missions, more likely to keep them peaceful
Hey when the Israeli Lobby and the government of Israel can take an international investigation and report by the internationally honored and respected Judge Golstone into the crimes committed in the Gaza and turn it into almost dust in D.C. keep that report from being mentioned on any of our MSM T.V. outlets, block it in our congress…sweeping these dead Turkish bodies under the rug will be nothing for them.
MSNBC and the rest will continue to keep the Media wall up
We’ll see. More and more people are recognizing what is going on all the time.
Israel will more than likely be able to spin these killings any way they want here in the states. The majority of people in the U.S. had no idea that there was an International flotilla carrying humanitairan aid to the Gaza. These deaths will be the first thing that People will hear about this humanitarian effort.
O.K. just hearing it up on Fox in the nursing home that I am visiting today. Will be an interesting take to hear
Did you see the Fox report wherein Israel’s ambassador to Denmark claims the organizers of the flotilla had ties to Al Qaeda? You can’t make this stuff up.
Krauthammer and Kristol just completely flipped the script. These killings were all the humanitarian “troublemakers” fault.
I think they write scripts for these kinds of events — all possible kinds of events — and just drag them out when they actually happen. Truly.
Standard script when it comes to anything with Israel in the sentence. All of the others faults…standard response..still works
Krauthammer and Kristol can spit out this crap without even rehearsing.
What I wrote elsewhere:
You think anyone’s buying this time? I’m not at all sure. BP’s changed the mood in the country in a big way. People are very much in a cut-the-crap do-what’s-right mood now.
Maybe. I don’t rule it out, but the effects of the BP mess/scandal are yet to be judged by any political events. The lack of political (party) alternatives in the U.S., and the monopoly ownership of the major media, means that such change has still quite a hurdle to make.
But, could we be nearing a tipping point when it comes to the consciousness of the American people/electorate? We shall see.
I’m actually genuinely wondering whether the US/Israel will introduce SigInt or HumInt (an infiltrator?) claiming they knew this was a military mission. Or whether Turkey is sitting on intel that suggest they knew something more than they’re saying. The former is more likely than the latter, obviously, but will they admit they’ve got intel on Irish peace activists? And will they tell their European partners?
INteresting angle. I’d think the really winning intel play would be for Turkey to produce intercepts showing Israel knew there was nothing dangerous on the ships, but chose to strike anyway.
True, and I bet money both sides are sitting on intelligence on this front. Peace activists are a perfect target for all three intell forces.
Here’s an interesting take:
Drive by …
China sets new rules banning confessions by torture
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/05/31/china-sets-new-rules.html
Fox News “what kind of peace activist use knives” First line out of Fox news
Turkey “Israel must be held accountable for their crimes”
“Israeli navy seals being attacked with steel bars and knives”
Krauthammer going to town spinning. Saying that this was not humanitarian aid, going on to say that the Palestinians have plenty of food and medical supplies. Krauthammer going to town lying. Israel good Palestinians bad (damn he looks bad and very creepy)
Think about this this is the first time most Americans are even hearing about this flotilla.
Krauthammer saying that the Palestinians do not want peace.
One of the women commentators on Fox
“What is happenning with the Israeli Palestinian stand off”
“How will the Obama administration respond to this”
“Will the Obama administration show solidarity with Israel”
Bill Kristol speaking now “the flotialla knew this would tempt the Israeli’s” Kristol bad Hamas, “this was a trouble making effort”
Christ all mighty Kristol and Krauthammer feel no shame express no sadness about these deaths. Flipping the script flipping the script.
Think about this. This is the first time most Americans have heard about this humanitarian effort.
Krauthammer and Kristol…these were all a bunch of “trouble makers”
Here we go
The Turkish people and the elected government want to see the seige of Gaza stopped. The only way to stop it is to get the US to cut off Israeli money. They may be hoping that Israel finally provokes Obama enough to do something.
I do not consider the Turks in any way authors of the event. The cause of the event is the seige of Gaza and Israel bears sole responsability. But they did escallate it, IMO.
They can’t really have believed Bibi would back down. Even if he wanted to, the parties in his coalation might well have brought down his government over it.
Boxturtle (I acknowledge the validity of your point, btw)
Well, that would do it, but it’s not the “only” way. The most efficacious development would be to spur the development of the Israeli peace or leftist movement. In a way, the powers that be in the Middle East would fear this even more, as having the I-P issue around helps them perpetuate their misrule and their own tyranny. Besides, any left group in the region, if in power, freed from the past onus of obsequience to Moscow, could appeal to the poor and oppressed of the Arab countries (and Iran) to join them in common struggle against a common oppressor. Believe me, this is the last thing either Washington or Damascus or Tehran, or Ankara or Cairo or Riyadh, desires. Pie in the sky? When you consider that this is the one thing that unites these regimes, then no, it is not impossible, but I’ll stop short of declaring it a historical inevitability. Nothing is inevitable. Although, given the political situation in Israel today, I won’t be holding my breath.
Every time the Israeli peace movement starts to get a little traction, the Palistinians have done something stupid. And vice versa. The core of the peace movement on either side is probably under 50 people by now. And they’re feeling pretty beat down. The debate in Israel seems more along the lines of the method of crushing Palistine, but there’s not a lot of disagreement about the goal.
I agree the peace movement would be the best way, but we don’t have that long to wait. It won’t be long before Israel has their wall and de facto border completed.
I think the President should tell Hamas: Recognize Israel. Do your best to stop the rockets. We’ll then stop the seige, even if we have to do a Berlin airlift. Hold UN supervised elections, we’ll work with the winner.
Then we hold real talks over EVERYTHING. With the implied threat of cutting off the money of whichever party gets unreasonable.
Boxturtle (Then reality returns and I just have a another single malt)
Um … they did that. Ask Jimmy Carter. And you didn’t.
Bush sure didn’t. There’s an implied “We’ll keep our word”, since this won’t work without if we don’t. Just like last time.
Though in Bush’s defense (*spit*), Hamas gave him the perfect excuse by refusing to acknowlege Israel’s right to exist.
Boxturtle (And by continuing not to do so, they give ObamaLLP a perfect excuse too)
Well, we could go ’round that mulberry bush forever (I’m sure lots of folks here have done that in the past), but the truth is that Hamas has made it clear for some time that it is willing to negotiate. “Refusing to acknowledge Israel’s right to exist” is an Israeli talking-point. (Is it legal for me to say that here? I’m not sure it’s legal to say it in Canada, although many do.)
Flagged ship in international waters not engaged in any hostile actions.
Armed commandos rappel down from helicopters.
WTH?
My understanding is that other aid ships have gone out in the past on now and then Israel have even let them through, but when they were turned back, they turned back. WTH is going on with doing an armed commando assault on the ship(s) in international waters? And under Turkish flag for that matter, basically making the ship Turkish territory while it is lawfully in international waters.
OTOH, I guess as long as Israel is going the “unlawful enemy combatants” route that Obama has approved and authorized, it’s a war crime to fight back against the guys with guns, so these civilians are actually all war criminals.
Seriously – international waters, flagged shipped, not engaged in hostilities – who do the Israelis think they are – Obama?
Wonder what Captain Jack, He Of The Law Of The Sea, Goldsmith would say??
OT — Is it still a jinx if I said mine on the other thread?
Who do the Israelis think they are????????
Why, they’re god’s chosen people. Law doesn’t apply to them.
Everybody’s angry today, but to the extent that there is exceptionalism at work there — and I know for a fact that not all Israelis believe in Israeli exceptionalism — it doesn’t necessarily have to be a purely religiously based exceptionalism. There are Israelis who aren’t Jewish, y’know.
The right wing crowd building the settlements who control Israeli politics today base their beliefs on religion. It’s as simple as that.
You may well be right about that. To my ears, that’s a different statement from what you said @163.
On a book that a bunch of Jewish guy wrote thousands of years ago. We know what happens to history books. Bible/Torah…some imagined god tells a particular group of people they are the “chosen people” What a bunch of hooey and twisted perversions and strategy. This is our land based on what it says what God told those Jewish guys and they wrote up what that god had to say in the Bible. One of the oldest real estate myths/scams in the world
Norman Finkelstein: “Israel is a lunatic state.”
J Street President:
Now that’s an utterly ridiculous and absurd statement!
http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/385ec082b509e76c41256739003e636d/7694fe2016f347e1c125641f002d49ce
SECTION V : NEUTRAL MERCHANT VESSELS AND CIVIL AIRCRAFT
Neutral merchant vessels
67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:
(a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture;
Absolute total bunk.
Turkey was not an “enemy” of Israel. Turkey was not engaged in any armed attack on Israel. Turkey posed no threat to Israel. It was a Turkish flagged vessel under international law and was lawfully and properly operating in open international waters.
Absolute total bunk.
Read it again. This time with bold
Neutral merchant vessels
67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:
(a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture.
As for the intensity of the actions, they were reasonable given the fact that they were getting beaten with clubs.
It was unmitigated aggression and murder. It was, and is, a war crime. It is indefensible.
I’m done. We’ll just have to disagree. Just don’t cut me out of football trash talk OK?
Never! Just cause we disagree on one thing does not the friendship end.
“Not A Lawyer” posted the same thing on Craig Murray’s blog and got smacked down:
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I guess you missed this bit, even buying your premises which are easily refuted.
And these too.
It seems they were fully within their rights of innocent passage.
Also, something interesting popped out at me. Could this be why the Turkish government is talking about giving the next flotilla a military escort:
If Turkey is a neutral state, doesn’t that mean they can, by law certify the whole damn flotilla? I wonder what that does for #67? It looks like for a blockade to be legal under international law it has to be approved by the Security Council (I didn’t find much detail on the topic). If that’s true, does that mean that were a warship to escort through the blockade they can legally deliver the boats right up to port in Gaza?
Obama Administration’s statement on this matter:
Yeah, that’s real compelling isn’t it? Jeebus.
Any argument that eventually comes down to “it’s OK even if it’s illegal because we’re the good guys and we have to win” is, let’s face it, a lost argument.
Israel stations nuclear missile subs off Iran
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article7140282.ece
They may have the capability. They may have the will. They may have a good reason not to do anything but posture. It’s not new news but a significant barrier to enrichment is the presence of the contaminant Molybdenum…
A Hitch in Iran’s Nuclear Plans?
There’s no point in starting a war if you can get the same result by barking and growling. Either way, Iran has no technical ability to enrich past about 22%.
On the other hand, if Israel eventually attacks Iran out of some misguided ploy, then the questions surrounding the Israeli nuclear program would become unavoidable. That wouldn’t be consistent with the notion of freedom of action after all.
Huh?
They’ve got what intel on what Irish peace activists?
It’s a guess. I’m guessing this is the kind of op (it has been publicly planned for over a month) that the US, at least, would collect intel on, if not the Israelis, as well. I’m sure the whole thing was planned using a bunch of email and cell calls. So if the US wanted it, presumably they got it.
And if the Turks have the capacity, they’d be watching how the Israelis were going to respond.
Thank you Marcy! Keep the heat on. Lest we ever forget , we are constantly reminded that the Jews “were persecuted” by the Nazis. Do they have the right to exterminate Palestinians? The way I see it, the Jews have been using the same inhuman Nazi playbook against the Palestinians for more than 50 years. They have with malice of forethought and planning deliberately and systematically discriminated against the Palestinians, using the media to portray Palestinians as sub humans and terrorists, undeserving of rights in their own homeland. Jimmy Carter is right, it’s Apartheid!
Marcy and the other heavy hitting bloggers here at Firedoglake not known for focusing on this critical issue or keeping any heat on this issue at all. This is an unusual write up by Marcy.
If you want the latest and and indepth focus the I/P conflict and substantive discussions..go to Prof Juan Cole’s site Informed Comment, Al Jazeera, Prof NOrman Finkelstein’s site, Real News, George Galloway’s site, Mondoweiss, Washington Note and now Race for Iran.
Crooks and Liars has had road blocks up on this issue for years now, Huffington Post and Firedoglake have loosened up. But if you want more information…more depth go to the above mentioned sites.
No way to tell how different things would have turned out if the MSM and so called progressive web sites would have put their spotlights on this International Flotilla that was in the works for months. Not a whisper about this flotilla in much of the U.S. news until there was violence and death. Such a damn shame and oh so telling.
Will be interesting to watch if now that people have been killed if Rachel Maddow, Keith Olbermann, and the rest will pick this story up and spin it or ignore it. Not a whisper about this flotilla by Rachel or the rest last week. Not a whisper
What a baseless assertion and an unreasonable demand. FDL dedicates a blogger to the subject, siun, and as for emptywheel, what do you call this thread, just to take one example?
That said, silence of a Rachel Maddow (you don’t need me to tell you she never said a word about last year’s Gaza massacre) is probably more effective than the overt propaganda, or outright lies and slanders of all the Krauthammers and Hiatts out there. The “liberal” propagandists have been the key apologists for Israeli and American warmongering for a long time now.
Kinda a skitter off of burnt @168 and EW’s biblical refs, did you catch who was in the flotilla? Ambassador Edward Peck — he’s the guy who Jeremiah Wright had watched on Fox News and then went back to his pulpit to tell his parish about — the chickens will come home to roost sermon:
from that last link..
And from freegazaorg’s twitter feed:
Wow, Israel fired on him? DAMN!
Story on HuffPo: Israel Sending Edward Peck, Former U.S. Ambassador, Home From Seized Ship, Wife Says
Good gawd. Look at the sinkhole in Guatemala.
It will be interesting to see who else was part of the peace group, as the more we learn the liklier it seems that, as EW hints, everyone was listening to everything.
A little tidbit that got my attention in GG’s column today was that Hedy Epstein, the elderly Holocaust survivor who at one point was said to have been on a ship, actually remained behind at the last minute in Cyprus. Was it just her own sense of prudence or fear of seasickness kicking in, or did someone receive word that they might not be let through after all, and wish to avoid the horrible debacle of having something happen to such a person?
This is the largest of a series of sailings over the last several years that are part of the overall effort to break the illegal blockade (and to focus international attention on it). It was never considered likely that the Israeli govt would allow this flotilla through, though it was considered a possibility — given the Turkish government’s pre-negotiations with the Israeli government and the number of high-level internationals aboard. Only one small boat has ever been allowed through before.
Hedy Epstein and a large number of passengers (including 30 members of parliament from nine EU countries) were to join the flotilla from Cyprus, but the Cyprus government prevented them from doing so:
This had the effect of delaying the flotilla, while most of the passengers made arrangements to take alternate routes. Hedy Epstein did not do so. It could have simply been that the forced extra travel was too much, or maybe as you speculate, the Cypriots’ hardline reaction seemed to foreshadow a violent response having been decided on by the Israeli government. As Mary pointed out above, there was a long and public debate inside Israel about how to respond, as this flotilla was only the largest and latest in a campaign of attempted deliveries.
Think any of this situation is parts of the USG using a sympathetic Turkey to deliver Israel a message?
Might make sense if more direct communications had not got anywhere, as I think we more or less know they had not.
Maybe it’s my own dual sensitivities showing up, but I wonder whether there are those who like to prove to all, and country and others pound sand, that neither a n_ nor a s_ is going to be ordering them about —those being the only terms in which some people can frame things even when more nuanced, and perhaps even more accurate, contextualizations are available.
But that could just be me, and not have anything to do with anything.
CTMET – the local hasbara artist…
i take that back after grudgingly reading a few more of the inane posts… hasbara artists are much better at their trade then this person…
NPR reporting France, Spain denouncing the attack. Turkey has recalled its ambassador to Israel.
The current state of affairs, shows how unmanageable life becomes, whether it’s the self aggrandizing, impulsive, self centered alcoholic at the helm or the self centered codependent, people pleaser at the helm. It doesn’t matter, the result is chaos. Why? Structure is a calming force, not only to ants, bees and dogs, but to human beings as well. I think of this “structure” as “higher power”. (and here I am not referring to traditional God, I am referring instead to the Laws of physics, the structure of biology, the Laws of nature).
Obama, took up where Bush left off, making decisions based on fear instead of based on principles. (well making decisions based on something other than our constitution, anyway) Our constitution was a striking example of this structure based on principles. These principles were held to be of “higher” importance than contextual fears and emotions. The constitution sought to be “self evident”. That is, obviously valid.
The United States served as a role model for effectiveness for the whole world. We are no longer being guided by our constitution. Instead Obama is making decisions about accountability based on factors outside of this structure. We can only guess that fear is why this is occurring. When we begin to step outside of this structure and attempt to control that which is not controllable, (the behavior of terrorists for example) we create chaos. Obama’s intentions may be “good”. But the road to hell is paved with good intentions. The structure of our constitution must inform our leader and without this it doesn’t matter whether it’s the drunk driving the bus or the codependent. Both are not following an accurate map of reality. It is only slightly safer having the enabler drive the bus. (in that the map being followed is still inaccurate)
And in my humble opinion, nothing has served to erode this more, than the black ops sites, torture and continued war plan. Obama’s greatest mistake, one with long term consequences, has been his inability to hold the hostile, fear based, Bush administration accountable. So the current leader of our nation remains FEAR. (false evidence appearing real). As long as Obama continues to make fear based decisions, instead of decisions guided by our constitution, or our higher power, if you will, our true leader is fear. And the ripple effect of this, will be a domino effect around the world.
The fear that helped create our constitution was valid. It sought to find solutions for true threats to our health, well being and safety. This is what helps provide a sense of security and gives us structure to follow. Even Martin Luther King Jr, in the face of valid fear was able to use the constitution to provide a sense of security for ALL of us. It’s not whether we follow it perfectly that matters most, it is the WILLINGNESS to follow it that sets us free and provides security.
The problem is not the world, but the leader of the world. The situation in every fear based impulsive hot spot of the world is being exacerbated by Obama’s refusal to hold our constitution up as a structure that works. Obama is the “good” parent who refuses to hold the abusive parent responsible. In this situation anxiety is increased not decreased. More anxiety, means more impulsive decision making.
Forgive my rant…my prediction is that the domino effect will continue and emotion mind will rule for a while now, until and unless we find a leader who is willing to stand up and be accountable to a “higher power”. (and I don’t mean traditional ideas about God)
Word.
The best rant of sublime comprehension, ever.
(I can’t wait until good news and human sensibility become the topics of your musings, wavpeac.)
DW
Obama is the “good” parent who refuses to hold the abusive parent responsible. In this situation anxiety is increased not decreased. More anxiety, means more impulsive decision making.
Very illuminating and insightful. Thanks, wavpeac.
Wavpeac, good and thoughtful analysis. If only such concepts could gain a wider audience.
Amen.
He’s also set the tone for the world of bastardizing the structures that are holding on by their teeth. Under a claim of embracing them, he’s turning them into something unrecognizable and he’s collecting a following.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100601/ts_nm/us_israel_flotilla
Obama’s “illegal to resist armed invasion, illegal to fire back, illegal to defend yourself” premises for his kangaroo courts are going to find a very ready audience.
Meanwhile – Egypt decides to open up their part of the strip:
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6502H820100601
And Obama has bragging rights for blowing up a
woman, her three daughters, one grandaughterthe al-Qaida No 3 in Afghanistan.http://www.csmonitor.com/World/terrorism-security/2010/0601/Drone-strike-reportedly-killed-Al-Qaeda-No.-3-Mustafa-Abu-al-Yazid
But not to fear – he’s going to be investigating drone strikes that kill kids (unless they also give him something to brag about). The Israeli raid has ended up leaving this story by Filkins in the cold:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/30/world/asia/30drone.html
Operators of Drones Are Faulted in Afghan Deaths
So apparently there were some “insurgents” (no detail on how they were known to be insurgents although use of that term seems to rule out their being *al-Qaida*) that an American special ops team was tracking in an area when ANOTHER few cars were spotted headed in the general direction of the area (a pickup and two sport utility vehicles).
So here’s how those cars – which weren’t the ones being tracked – were targeted while they were still over 7 miles away from the team doing the tracking.
So the airstrike is undertaken and it kills 23 civilians with 12 others wounded. The “operators’ of the drones, back in Nevada, where it’s all handled like a video game, just somehow had never noticed any women in the cars, despite watching them for 3 1/2 hours. Not only had they not noticed women and children themselves, they didn’t notice warnings intelligence analysts sent to them:
At least the crew on the Kiowa realized something was likely wrong after their first attack and they held back from finishing off the remaining survivors, but Filkins starts out the story, not with any thing about the victims of the attack, but with the self congratulatory pat on our collective back that there’s been a “scathing” report on the child-predator killings and four officers have actually been disciplined! And there are going to be “training measures” now for the drone operators.
All of which show that we are just “extraordinarily” sensitive.
But think through what the article is saying about the situation if the vehicles had only had men in them. If our spec ops are on someone’s trail and a vehicle with men in it is seven miles away from where they are searching and there is no evidence, other than the vehicle being 7 miles away and heading in their general direction and having men in it, that the occupants have anything to do with insurgency, THEN it would have been perfectly ok to kill them and to just add them to the list of insurgents killed.
Bc that is the ONLY thing they say provoked the drone attack. Vehicles with men in them – not the men being tracked – spotted 7 miles out. That’s Obama War.
*Stands on Chair and applauds*
Brilliant comment on the psyche that constantly deliberates between the lesser of two evils and never focuses on the greater good.
Naomi Klein at the Toronto protest yesterday evening
@prostratedragon:
In looking through the clips covering the Greek Cypriot government’s clampdown on Saturday, I came across one that indicates that the Israeli government had already made a decision to take the military option in international waters:
Washington Post coverage is a predictably grotesque Israeli press release in which passengers “battled” Israeli commandos. Not a single account from any passenger in the rest of the flotilla (access being barred to passengers from the boat that was attacked). The picture on the front page is an Israeli solder being carried away on a stretcher. And there’s a lead editorial for good measure, in which said passengers are dismissed as a a “motley” crew.
That’s all predictable. What I’m curious about is whether there’s any video evidence of actual violent resistance on the boat. This seems to be one of those important events that calls for the big lie, i.e., complete manufacture/falsification of evidence, such as, I don’t know, uninjured soldiers getting into gurneys.
Here’s what the article says in that regard:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/31/AR2010053101209_2.html?waporef=obinsite
A propos slingshots, the Palestinians threw rocks in the first intifida with the conscious aim of eliciting this David-Goliath comparison in the eyes of the world. It seems quaint now to imagine that Israelis, or Americans, could be so reflective, or burdened with bad consciences.
A pet peeve: Please don’t call him that endearing “Bibi” like he’s someone you’d want to be on nickname terms with.
When voters aren’t afraid, they vote their pocketbook AND conscience.