Rahm’s Making the White House Look Terrible
This morning, the Politico made news by reporting that someone at the White House had ordered Harry Reid to cut a deal with Joe Lieberman on health care.
The White House denied the report.
“The White House is not pushing Senator Reid in any direction,” spokesman Dan Pfeiffer says. “We are working hand in hand with the Senate Leadership to work through the various issues and pass health reform as soon as possible.”
But since, then, two more reoprters have confirmed Politico’s account: TNR’s Jonathan Cohn and HuffPo’s Ryan Grim. In fact both Cohn and Grim pass on the ID of this anonymous White House figure: Rahm Emanuel. (Yeah, I know, gambling in the casino, even.) Here’s Ryan’s report.
Rahm Emanuel visited Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid in his Capitol office on Sunday evening and personally urged him to cut a deal with recalcitrant Sen. Joe Lieberman, two Democratic sources familiar with the situation said.
Now, aside from the fact that the White House looks stupid to us, as they try to insist Reid wasn’t visited by the Ghost of Health Care past, consider how they look to those close to the negotiations, who not only are being jerked around by Lieberman and Rahm, but who also risk losing their job as Senator and Majority Leader over this legislative failure. Here’s how that frustration sounds.
The report, however, according to the two sources, was entirely accurate. “We’re long past time for these kinds of games,” one source said.
But as bad as Rahm is making the White House look right now, consider how bad he’s going to make the White House look, if Lieberman refuses to deal. After all, Lieberman has taken just days to refuse the last compromise, based on claims of opposing a policy he supported three months ago. Lieberman doesn’t give a shit about health care, Obama, or Rahm Emanuel. (Or Harry Reid, for that matter.) So after forcing the White House to lie repeatedly about his strong-arm tactics, Rahm is going to make the White House look still worse after the Lieberman refuses the next deal he makes.
Rahmbo in an orange jumpsuit. Priceless!
We can dream, can’t we?
Minor typo: “…if Lieberman refuse
es to deal.”And on all the MSM puffery and blather about Der Lieberweasel’s HCR stands, not one fookin’ one of them has the courage to tell the truth.
Der Lieberweasel’s HCR stands are simply out of spite. Nothing more, nothing less!
In retrospect it’s a little amusing how liberals thought Rahm would be used against Republicans but instead he’s been employed – from day one – to harass progressives into voting for terrible legislation. I suppose I shouldn’t have gotten my hopes up that this administration would be any different from Clinton’s… oh well, fool me once and all that.
I agree. I had a sinking feeling the moment that I heard he was going to be Chief of Staff, but I hopeed that I was wrong and that it wouldn’t turn out that Obama hadn’t played us all for fools. But I think the reality is that they always intended to betray us in favor of corporate interests.
The only question is where we go from here. For me, I can’t call myself a Democrat any longer. But I don’t know where to turn politically. Is there anyone or any group that can stop this? I’ve been writing and calling virtually everyone in Congress, and I know that others are doing the same. But we’re not being listened to.
Democrats are poised to force us to become customers of three or four corporations. And the IRS will enforce this law. So where is our freedom? I am beginning to sound like a teabagger, but where is our freedom? How can the government pass a law that I MUST give my money to any corporation??
This is the moment Obama must make a decision about Rahm.
He already has.
Look where Rahm is.
Excuse me, but Obama appointed Rahm. Everything Rahm does is with the approval of Mr. Prez. Do you really think Rahm is going behind Obama’s back and doing these things? Obama is so anxious to get a bill passed, any bill, it doesn’t matter what’s in it, that he’ll sell out to W and Cheney if they were to enter the picture. Barry is in the pocket of the medical industrial complex. He sold out to them from the beginning when he immediately dropped the single payer leverage. Snowe wants to delay, so Joe gets to call the shots because he knows Obama wants anything, anything, anything. Charge the people any amount for health care, what does he care as long as he can say he was the first president in decades to pass a health care bill. Barry’s as big a weasel as Lieberman and Rahm.
Rahm might-maybe convince Reid to lose his job over this, but I doubt they’ll be able to get 60 votes for a bill with no PO or medicare buy-in. Stupid isn’t a word I would use in association with Obama normally, but this IS just stupid.
Is Rahm on any kind of leash?
You don’t think that this was Obama’s call? Rahm is just the errand boy.
No, that’s my point. Obama is in charge.
My question exactly, is Emanuel on any kind of a lease. I grow sick of the arrogance in Washington. These damn politicians who heretofore supported single payer, then public option are now telling us that this load of crap is good enough. No, it is not. We did not let the perfect become the enemy of the good – we let the expedient become the enemy of reform. To hell with the slogans too.
How interesting that it was “an order” to cut a deal with Lieberputz (before his wife loses her lobbying income, no doubt). It was not cut a deal with Sherrod Brown. Nor was it cut a deal with Rockefeller or Snowe or Hatch or McConell. Rahm put pressure on the wet Reid to cut a deal with a guy who wants no deal. What a perfect recipe for how to fail the public, to fail the idea of reform, to fail to improve health care and health outcomes?
If Rahm and Obama continue to paint this administration and party as a left-handed version of the GOP, they will send the Democrats and America into a tailspin that will make the Bush administration look like it flew straight and level.
Inside of one year, Obama has painted himself into a corner that it will take him three years to dig out of. He wasn’t pushed into it, he walked into it freely. He chose it. If Barack Obama fails the public on health care, he’d better decide quickly what he wants to do as a former president.
Rahm is making the President look like a horse’s ass.
Well, no one could possibly have anticipated that….
The thing that amazes me is that Rahm will succeed in trashing two presidencies and be able to walk away.
Of course, the fact that Rahm got the chance at doing in the second of those two is a reflection on the judgment of the man who hired him for that job and gave him the chance.
And/or the leverage the Chicago machine has on him.
Please. Obama doesn’t need Rahm to make him look like a horse’s ass. Obama IS a horse’s ass as is the entirety of his banker buttbuddy staff.
Obama is NOT the man we were looking for. My only hope is that he is truly does make himself a one-termer. Two terms of this asshole corporate lackey is two terms too many. Hell, there is literally no difference between Obama and his policies and Bush before him. The ONLY thing that has changed at all is the words (for the most part…though his defense/explanation for “surging” in Afghanistan is identical to Bush’s defense/explanation for “surging” in Iraq).
The faster Obama finishes his disaster of a term the better. The faster Rahm steps in front of a bus the better (while holding Lieberman’s hand).
Yep. I read the whole thread and have to aggree that @14 said it best – Rahm is Obama’s trial balloon.
Well, you may be right.
Then again…
GW Bush: scion of one of America’s wealthiest families.
Privileged education.
Not well traveled, despite family money + privileged education.
Not well read (from what we can tell) despite family money + privileged education.
Number of times Bush engaged in ‘volunteer work’ rather than clear brush in Crawford… maybe once after Katrina.
Number of times Bush looked into his own soul and produced anything even remotely like “Dreams From My Father” to figure out who he is, and what he wants from life = zero.
Career: oil and energy industries.
Then we have Barak Obama:
From — at best — a middle class background.
Lived overseas during childhood; parents divorced when he was very young, partly raised by grandparents.
Privileged education based on scholarship and scholastic aptitude.
Ability to synthesize large quantities of information and distill meaning, if “Dreams From My Father”, plus the way he ran his 2008 campaign, are instructive: high.
First career: community organizer.
Yeah, I think it’s always smart to equate a wealthy risk-taker with a history of alcoholism against a guy who actually showed intellectual gifts and moral courage, and chose community organizing after getting a law degree at Harvard.
Clearly, their politics and outcomes will be identically terrible.
/s
Like Savoir Faire, Captain Renault is everywhere. And so his shock, shock I tell you, permeates reaction to this report.
LOL. A feral feline Mountie! How did I miss that? Or why was I not informed?
The CLASS provision?
I feel like I’m shouting in the wilderness.
RAHM IS NOT DOING ANYTHING OBAMA HAS NOT APPROVED! Rahm did thus and such on his own. Rahm leaked this. Rahm had this silly idea.
If Rahm had really does all he’s been accused of behind Obama’s back, he’d be gone. He’s Obama’s Trial balloon or the enforcer. If it becomes public, well, that’s just Rahm being Rahm.
Obama is a Chicago politician. Never forget that.
Boxturtle (And Rahm is a Chicago politician’s assistant)
You are correct.
exactly…
since when is it “President Rahm”?
Do the D’s really think they can hold their seats after this fiasco? It’s going to be a bloodbath and they deserve it.
What happens when the Senate bill gets reconciled with the House version? What happens if they can’t get a bill through the House without a public option or Medicare buy in? Can the conference committee put it back in and can it still be filibustered?
It seems to me if the D’s were smart they would throw Lieberman and a couple others out of the caucus and just say they don’t have the votes. What they’re left with now is worse than no bill at all. Either that or just vote to get rid of the filibuster.
Yes.
Then they should do nothing. No bill is better than the bill now in the Senate. From what I understand the two big things they think they would be doing are putting additional people in the system with government subsidies (to stop the cost shifting) and guaranteed insurability. However, guaranteed insurability is meaningless with limits on the amount the insurance companies have to pay out and all they do with putting more people in the system is have the government/taxpayer finance the cost shifting. In return, they have no guarantee that the insurance companies reduce premiums by the amount attibutable in each present policy to cost shifting. It’s just a giangantic windfall/giveaway to the insurance companies that folks will easily and readily recognize. Especially employers, who will increasingly drop their coverages and let their workers go into the subsidized mode.
Am I missing something?
Who cares a whit what happens to Obama now. The man sold everyone out, from the sick to the tortured, and meanwhile, handed billions to the bankers (trillions?) and gave the generals their war.
And don’t forget Nancy and Harry, who, to follow the cartoon critique, make Tom and Jerry look masterful.
For Obama, I care nothing at all. If he were abducted by aliens at least we wouldn’t have to suffer through any more of his duplicitous speeches.
However, I worry greatly about the rest of us. Obama and the Dem leadership are utterly corrupt. Republicans have criminal tendencies. And American voters have convinced themselves that 3rd parties are off the table.
So now we are in a real bind. I do not know how to fix this. I will not vote for incumbent Dems. I will not vote for Rethugs. And my candidates will not win. Then what?
It doesn’t matter whether your candidates win or lose. The important thing is for voters to start deciding races instead of betting on them.
And to follow-up on Jeff Kaye’s comments, behold the misery:
“More than half of the nation’s unemployed workers have borrowed money from friends or relatives. An equal number have cut back on doctor’s visits or medical treatments because they are out of work.
“Almost half have suffered from depression or anxiety. About four in 10 parents have noticed behavioral changes in their children that they blame on their struggles.”
Much more, so sad to say.
From HOPE to FAIL in less than a year. That’s not the change I voted for, but I knew Obama was somewhat conservative. I just didn’t realize he was mostly talk. Now I know. You know what’s going to suck more than this P.O.S. HCR we’re going to end up with? It’s going to be all of the Dems going out talking about how historical this is and isn’t it just wonderful. Yeah, the American people are fucked right now and the Dems just Fucked them that much harder. Not only am I pissed because I’ll be much worse off as a result of this, but I’m extremely fucking pissed at them for making a liar out of me. The people I talked into voting for Obama won’t believe me, and rightly so, when I tell them Dems are the only hope for the working men and women of this country.
Breaking and not so OT – Via The Hill:
What the hell is left?
Harry Reid’s lips embedded firmly on Der Lieberweasel’s ass. Priceless!
Well, people elected to federal offices and their appointees still enjoy guaranteed, generous health care benefits, thanks to the American taxpayer.
Exactly.
Sherrod Brown was just on KO saying that the bill “wasn’t perfect” and “wasn’t all we wanted,” but then saying it should pass.
KO didn’t question him closely enough or put up a chart of “plusses” and “minuses”.
Oh crap, just as I’m sitting here watching KO, the non-stop “call Congress and tell them to block this horrible climate change bill” ads are starting. Two within 10 minutes already.
IIRC, “pluses” include
* 30,000,000 more people covered
* Insurance co. have to spend 90% on health coverage (Jay Rock’s thing)
* Insurance co. can’t refuse coverage for pre-existing conditions
* Insurance co. can’t limit coverage
Someone on KO or TRMS tonight was saying that if the Senate bill became law, the lives of 150,000 people would be saved over the next decade.
That ain’t pocket change.
Bob in AZ
Agree with your analysis.
Also, look at the demographics of the Senate: the health care visionaries now are probably Wyden, Cantwell, and a few others – with Jay Rockefeller as sentinel and Dodd as historian.
Meanwhile, I don’t give Chuck ‘Death Panels’ Grassley good odds on being in the Senate after his next race, along with some others who won’t be around to stall.
The tide is still going out on the Republicans, but to get more Dems the next election will require some very clever moves by Harry Reid.
Alas, the loss ratio is probably toast (see Jon’s post over at FDL Action).
And Reid already put lifetime caps back in, so yeah they can limit coverage.
I suspect the 30,000,000 people may find themselves with crappy coverage they can’t afford, but then I’m not in a particularly optimistic mood at the moment.
What do you bet that JoLie will pitch a fit tomorrow about pre-existing conditions?
By the way, I caught that bit on KO about how liberals better not dare tank the bill because people will die. Funny how its suddenly our responsibility to make sure the bill passes when they have given us nothing. There was no compromise here, just capitulation. And yet, if we oppose the bill after having been spectacularly and publicly fucked by lobbyists, we are the ones with blood on our hands. I for one, am having none of it. I’ll be making phone calls tomorrow to share as much of my displeasure as I can convey over a phone.
As I understand this, the insurance companies may not be able to refuse coverage on preexisting conditions but they can charge folks two or three times more for the coverage.
And if the folks can’t afford that?
How is that not effectively blocking access to coverage because of a pre-existing condition?
Or is this interpretation wrong? Everyday it seems you read 12 contradictory things about so many facets of this “reform” fiasco.
I suspect your interpretation is exactly right. And what alternatives will people have? Last I heard the individual mandates are still in, but that’s not to say that the coverage people will be able to afford will be worth the paper the policy is written on.
This isn’t reform, it’s a travesty.
The problem is as you have observed, high expense individuals and pre-existing conditions will be priced into crappy minimal policies to where they still do not have, effectively, meaningful coverage.
Here’s what I don’t understand about your politicians … the underprivileged will get the shaft and the CBC represent a majority of this group.
Where the heck are they and why are they not banging down the Doors of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue ?
Yeah, good question. Same goes for the Blue Dogs; they are invariably from the poorest of districts.
When the CBC started rattling Sabres about jobs, I thought it meant that this Health Care thingy was a done deal and they wanted to state what the next big push should be.
There’s some pretty dirty politics being played right now … most of it by the Dems & their “allies”.
Then this is just another example of the “reform” bullshit Congress and the White House Inc. are peddling as the audacity of, uh, more of the same?
I suspect the 30,000,000 people may find themselves with crappy coverage they can’t afford,
and are REQUIRED to carry.
Insurance companies will be rejoicing, but I think some sage hear keeps coming up with the great advice that those 30,000,000 forced into crappy, unaffordable insurance people can “go cry about it”
Are the teabaggers missing one of their own?
Here’s the link to Jon’s article about how Reid gutted the provision to ban an annual limit on coverage. I forgot to add it in my earlier reply at 196.
Thanks. I think there’s a lot of maneuvering going on behind the scenes. For pete’s sakes, people are talking about the revised Senate bill as if they know what’s in it. So far as I know, until the CBO report comes back and Reid publishes the draft bill, we don’t really know what is in it, and what is not.
Bob in AZ
Yes, but we think that we know….
However, I’m convinced that if not for Jane’s leadership and FDL efforts, this would never have come this far and ‘public option’ would have slid out of sight by August.
I’m convinced it was the public who put the ‘public option’ back into the bills.
But the Senate needs to change its rules; there’s no ‘democracy’ when 32,000,000 people have the same two Senate votes as 1,000,000. The gulf is so vast that the nation is in danger of becoming ungovernable; unless the Senate shifts to some more proportional procedures and rules, we’re going to end up ‘played’ by another K-k-k-karl Rove, whose only hope of power is to game an increasingly unstable system.
All the GOP ‘initiatives’ were based on votes from small population states, rammed through by a President who took office only on the basis of one SCOTUS vote. The GOP is very brittle; the Dems really need to take far more initiative and be more bold.
Mandates.
Um, don’t forget the prohibition against negotiating prices.
And what about anti-trust?
Pat Leahy has proposed an amendment to the Senate HC bill to repeal the health insurer’s anti-trust exemption (it is already in the House version); however, as an amendment it will require 60 votes to get added, which seems unlikely.
Disagree.
Any idiot who fails to demolish the healthCo trust protections is going to be political TOAST in their next elections.
“Here’s Senator A, who refused to bust the health care trusts…. and the CEO of United Health made $200 million in 2007, and X in 2008…”
Oh. My. God.
That’s going to be politcal ad heaven for whoever makes up those ads against ‘Senator A, who refused to vote to lower your health care premiums.’
Some things, people forget.
Wars, oil profits, and health care scams piss people off in ways they tend to remember.
Wait for the political fallout; it’ll take awhile, but it’ll happen.
I’m confused, “Change we can believe in”; is that still part of this bill in the senate, or has this been removed?
Thompson Twins “Lies Lies Lies”:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x3TMBeX-ws&feature=related
Mods, please permit me to express this non-violent sentiment: I’d like to make “the perfect” the enemy of these guys’ heads . . . or butts.
First off, I am not so sure that there is “enough good stuff” to warrant passage at this point. secondly, these pathetic asswipes have NEVER “played the hand” they were dealt; instead, they have refused to stand up as men and women and fight and have immediately folded in every instance and at every turn. In fact, they folded and compromised solid negotiating ground before they ever started this effort by immediately ceding single payer, tie ins to Medicare scheduling, backroom deal with PHARMA etc. The Democratic leadership, left to their own devices, are relentless and automatic fold machines.
Exactly!
Senate Democrats folded to…Senate Democrats!
No one does toady like Harry Reid does toady.
Harkin’s main concern was to get
shamanisticalternative “medicine” onto the gravy train.Exactly.
The proposal was to offer medicare buy in to 55 to 65 year olds. Compromise is to drop it all together? Where did these people learn to negotiate? They could learn a lot from Monty Python.
55 to 65 not good enough for Senate “moderates”?
Ok, 56 to 65.
Not good enough?
Ok, 57 to 65.
…
That’s compromise. Nothin’ is complete annihilation.
They couldn’t even get standard medicare to kick in for freaking 64 year olds before calling it a day?
I thought Harkin said that reconciliation was on the table. Do they actually think that it is that important to make this look like a win for Obama before the holiday break
“The Democratic leadership, left to their own devices, are relentless and automatic fold machines.”
In another context, they would be called “cheese-eating surrender monkeys”.
Wyden says we should keep fighting. Calls this a foundation we can build on.
Rachel’s asking about reconciliation, and Wyden says no.
Santa Joe says we all get coal in our Xmas stockings. Priceless!
“Lieberman has taken just days to refuse the last compromise, based on claims of opposing a policy he supported three months ago. Lieberman doesn’t give a shit about health care, Obama, or Rahm Emanuel.”
So involved in his own self interest it is almost criminal.
Harkin is the polar opposite of the self consumed “Traitor Joe”
Quit being babies. Push the Senate to pass a health bill that gets 60 votes without the public option.
THEN
Push Reid to use reconciliation to pass the PUBLIC OPTION.
2 BILLS. One for all the reforms that can’t get through reconciliation. Then one that gets the public option through using reconciliation. This is not that hard to figure out.
Quit bitching and make it happen. Call anyone you can think of!!!
I’ve wondered about doing that too, is it possible?
I think so. Most of the reforms in the Senate bill can’t get through using reconciliation, that’s why I’m saying just get whatever we can with 60 votes
THEN COME BACK AND GET THE PUBLIC OPTION USING RECONCILIATION!!!
The public option will reduce the deficit. Legislation passed under reconciliation can get through if it doesn’t add to the deficit or/if actually lowers the deficit.
LET’S DO THIS PEOPLE!!!
“I think so” doesn’t answer my question.
Then fucking look it up. I’m pretty sure it would work.
Loose the attitude she is here to talk issues so are you if you don’t know an answer say so but politely.
Thanks, but I will say and talk how I please. Don’t give me attitude and I won’t give anyone else attitude.
Spoken like a true 8 year old.
One of the things about being a mom is that one has experience with bratty kids having temper tantrums in the grocery store. When they do, it’s best to let them howl, kick the floor and wear themselves out.
That’s gonna be my approach.
Amen to that. Where’s Freep? Cleanup on aisle 122.
Bob in AZ
You could write a book:)
How to lose friends even if they might agree with you and influence people…to go the opposite way you go on issues.
I’m not here to make friends. I’m here to put some wind in the sails of my fellow progressives. I don’t need anymore friends. I’ve already got a dog. I’m here to get a fucking public option. Get 60 votes for the bill without the public option and the Medicare buy-in. Then get the public option with 51 votes.
And based on your congenial remarks here, how’s that working out for you?
Oh, it’s probably all the fault of the “listeners” not getting your important message.
It’s not me. What do I care what a bunch of defeatists on a message board think about me?
We want a public option? Work to get the progressive community to push for the public option using reconciliation.
There’s like 4 or 5 Democrats holding back a public option because we can’t get to 60, so use reconciliation!!! Let’s do this.
Be polite or you will be bounced. And, yes, I can make good on that promise.
Ok.
I hate Joe Lieberman and Rahm Emanuel. Obama is Bush.
Is that how it works?
.
Oh, bmaz, I love you!!!
You came in here with attitude. Please put it in your closet.
Of course I came here with an attitude. I’m sick of seeing progressives cry like little children because they are not getting their way. I’ve got an idea, how about trying a new approach. Why would America look to the progressive community for answers if they know we completely fall to our knees when we don’t get our way?
Respectfully, I suggest you take your attitude back to your room, until you can be polite when you go out visiting.
Besides, you’re so full of yourself that you clearly can’t be bothered to find out what’s been going on here for the last, oh, five or six years.
Haven’t you wondered why unHoly Joe hates liberals and progressives so much?
Search FDL for, say, the Kiss Float.
I’m aware of the whole Ned Lamont thing. I sent Lamont $20 bucks during college when I was pretty much broke.
When did I ever say that this is my idea(s). They’re not. I could care less if I get any credit for passing health care. How would I on an internet blog forum constitute getting any credit in the real world? That’s ridiculous.
Either quit crying about the current state of health and try something new or just keep talking about how much Rahm and Joe suck and that the world is ending.
So you are a twenty-something.
Now that you’re out of college, welcome to the real world, where a whole lot of people know more than you do about life, the universe, and everything.
(I deal with kids your age every day. Some of them are actually capable of learning. The verdict is still out on you.)
Folks,
Before you ascend to the realm of certainty about rahm emmanuel’s demise as chief of staff,
Keep in mind obama’s “peace” prize speech.
Any president’s aggression against an
“enemy” will negate any domestic policy conflict,
E .g., was health “reform”
“effective”.
Who, me?
Do I get a prize for being the first to identify the correct answer on this subject?
most likely a relative of Palin’s
he hates the 40 million uninsured and LOVES private insurance companies
Uh your idea has a big hole in it relying on Joe not to double cross us again on a deal, you have seen the clip of him arguing for an early buy into medicare just a few weeks ago but now he wants to filibuster against that idea?
And as far as defeat goes when the public option was declared dead we changed that. When tea baggers brought guns to Town Hall meetings we started going to Town Halls and out numbering the Tea Baggers.
Defeat is trusting Joe, we have moved on we want him out now.
And as far as us crying because we are not getting our way America does look to us for answers already.
War in Iraq and Afghanistan we wanted the war over and so does the majority of voters.
Economy we want more jobs so do voters. we are not happy or convinced the economy is getting better
The Public Option polls better than Joe and most of the Blue Dogs do.
Rather its the Elite in Washington and the Press who always tell us you are going to fast, what you want is politically impossible, you must compromise with Joe to get things done.
We are through compromising and despite your attempts to sound tough you just show the weakness of compromise and a lack of control of your temper.
We know we have the popular vote. We know we don’t have to compromise. They hope we forget.
Right, but who knows anything for sure. Without the public option, Snowe will vote for this and Collins probably will, too.
If Joe still delays, then they should strip him of his chairmanship. I don’t think Joe will put up any more walls. I could be wrong, though. Like I said before, Joe is a pain in the ass, but he is there on some other big votes.
60% of the American people support a public option. 60% of the country must be progressives according to your comment
Last polling I saw said 56% total and 81% of Democrats support the public option. That’s why I think Reid may still try to break this up into two bills. One the traditional 60 route and one through reconciliation. Getting a public option would be a huge boost to Democrats and especially his race in 2010.
This is still a poker game and Reid won’t go down without swinging or even trying something grand like getting a public option through using reconciliation. Maybe he is thinking about his legacy. This would be a big accomplishment in terms of the history of the Senate. Never underestimate the power of a Senator’s ego.
I doubt that he has time or energy right now to wax all doey-eyed about his ‘legacy’.
Here’s what I suspect: the Dems have governors, mayors, utility dept execs, and private companies who are completely fed up and pissed off about the HealthCo strangehold on the national economy, and on their budgets.
What amazes me is that the GOP is showing itself to collectively possess shit for brains.
Does anyone who thinks about it for ten seconds honestly believe that a Governor is going to let themselves look bad, have to cut budgets — because states HAVE to balance their budgets! — and then support whatever Senator voted to give healthCos money, while they’re cutting services, cutting positions, and gutting programs?
People aren’t stupid.
We may not figure it all out in one night, but if the Dems don’t pass some things that bring relief to state budgets, let alone individual voters, they’re going to enter The Political Hell of No Return. I don’t think Reid intends to go there.
And even if Reid did intend to go there, Schumer would raise holy hell.
That would be political suicide.
Really, define stupid.
No, seriously most folks aren’t stupid so much as appallingly ignorant about how “democracy” works in Washington when billions of dollars are at stake.
Among other things, it doesn’t.
A troll with “lefty” in their name is still a troll. Thread hijacked, mission accomplished.
Obama knew what he was getting. The anecdote beginning at 5:05 is particularly interesting.
So, tangential to this discussion…
WTF is up with Sherrod Brown on KO and Ron Wyden on Rachel talking up how even without a PO or Medicare Buy-in that this HCR bill will be an important step forward? Are the proposed regs on the health insurance industry really going to be as strong or work as well as they’re saying?
I’m really starting to wonder if I’m not actually living on Planet Reality after all!
Feh! Faugh, even!
FunnyWheelieDiva
Pass the bill with 60 votes. Go back and pass the PUBLIC OPTION using reconciliation!!!
Is anyone listening???
We can use reconciliation now I do not trust the Senate when they say we will get you later.
“We can use reconciliation now I do not trust the Senate when they say we will get you later.”
EXACTLY!!!!! We’d be utter fools to go along now in the hopes of a future bill. We let them trade away vitually everything because they told us that we could get more that way, and now we’re left with nothing other than a mandate that favors the insurance industry.
What we need to do is stand firm TODAY!!! The Senate is folding as we post, and it’ll be a done deal by morning if we’re not careful. Just watch how many progressive Democrats are out today to tell us how we’re going to lose both the public option and the Medicare buy-in.
Lame.
How about this. We compromise with Lieberman to stroke his ego and get 60 votes.
Then use reconciliation to get the public option. There’s at least 50 votes for the public option and Biden could split the vote.
I’m not claiming to be a visionary. I didn’t think of this move. I’m just trying to get more and more people talking about it.
THEN IN 2012 WE CAN SETTLE THE SCORE WITH LIEBERMAN.
Lieberman won’t run again.
Even better.
Well, tarheellefty, I think you’re being horridly naive if you think there is a chance in hades of getting a second bill.
I think they’re right.
I also think that Lieberman just crossed a Rubicon; some of these Senators, staffers, and health care reform supporters who wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt and a chance at redemption? He’s gone too far for them to ever do anything more than gag when they think of him.
This petulance has revealed a lot about the GOP, and about Lieberman.
He’s a walking joke, but now EVERYBODY knows it.
That’s the silver lining.
Agree. Both Brown and Wyden both seemed exhausted tonight on Keith and Rachel.
Thx; I’ve not yet had time to catch them, but will after this.
I have to say, from my distant peanut gallery seat (freezing my arse off), that if Ron Wyden can keep a clear, cool head, and Sherrod Brown as well, they’ll get dividends later.
Lieberman just joined the Political Walking Dead beyond any shadow of a doubt.
Now, time to put pressure on the obscene fiction that a ‘filibuster’ of 60 votes, when Ben Nelson represents less than 1,000,000 and Boxer represents 32,000,000 is pure absurdist lunacy.
It’s not simply Congressional seats the Dems will lose — it”s governorships.
Which helps explain the GOP intransigence.
Any bets on when Rahm gets fired?
I don’t think he’s going to get fired. At least not any time soon.
Like Bush, Obama is going to keep his inner circle around him until it’s too, too late.
Then there goes the Obama Presidency
Wrong. Either you’re a teabagger trying to stir up crap on the left or you’re ignorant to all of the moves that Reid can do.
Hey! Watch it.
Watch what?
I’m sick of reading the defeatists around here cry and sulk. There’s at least 51 Senators that would vote for a public option. Let’s try to get Reid to push through the public option using reconciliation.
That would take courage and Reid has none.
Reid is trying to pass a health care bill that has been so botched that it really doesn’t poll well, but he is still pushing forward because it is better than allowing the status quo.
If he passed this bill and used reconciliation to get the public option, he would win his upcoming election. I would put money on that.
Now that the bill is down to mandates to purchase insurance from private monopolies who don’t face meaningful consumer protections, I’m not so sure it’s worth fighting for.
Watch your attitude you are far from the grand visionary you think you are. Address the ideas dismiss us with personal insults and we stop giving you the benefit of the doubt.
Quit crying about it and do something. Bitching about Lieberman and Rahm doesn’t do anything. Start thinking and start calling people. This is politics and anything can happen.
Sure it does have you seen Joe’s poll numbers.
What have you been doing?
We’ve been making phone calls and writing letters and visiting our congresscritters when they’re available. Since January, on this. (We told Reid to take away unHoly Joe’s gavel, but no, he’s with us on everything but the war.
Harry, we fucking told you so.
I’ve been doing the same thing. I call my reps. I remind them that I canvassed for them and made calls for them and even gave them cash.
Get 60 damn votes in the Senate. Conference it with the House and sign the bill. Go back and get 50 votes plus Biden for the public option and ping-pong it in the House.
There’s your health reform plus the holy grail, the public option!!!
You don’t own this site. Nor has anyone appointed you to “police” it.
As bmaz said:
Are you age 25 or under, ’cause the way you “pronounce” all these great “proposals” sounds like late night dorm room crap.
When did I say I would police it. I’m here to inject some actual ideas and movement.
Hey, let’s try crying and bitching about things to see if that will help…
What the fuck are you talking about?! No group of people has worked harder than FDL’ers to fix health care. We don’t just comment here. We actively work on the problem.
I didn’t say you don’t work hard, but blaming Rahm and Joe doesn’t do anything. Joe is a douche bag, but he’s better than having a Republican. And if y’all here have worked so hard, why just give up now. Put pressure on Reid to get the public option through using reconciliation. We don’t have to have one huge health reform bill all at once. Who cares if it is 2 separate bills?
Based on your pith quotient (quantity/quality=pithQ) thus far in this thread, the day you come in here and “add” ideas to a blog headlined by Marcy Wheeler…
You’re right. Maybe if we get really mad at Rahm and Joe, we can magically get a public option. We should try that. It might work.
Good one ;-}
Nice non sequitur.
So, what are your ideas again Ace?
In any case, I’m not mad at Rahm or Joe. It’s like the story of the frog and the scorpion, they do what they do because that’s who they are. Most sentient beings on the left saw them for what they were many many years ago.
It’s about the nominal bosses who keep handing them the reins: Obama and Reid. While Rahm = Obama (and the whinging about Rahm and the implication that he’s somehow way off the rez *does* annoy me), Joe ain’t Reid but he sure is playing him.
I’m a little more about getting angry with progressives that allow themselves to be played for chumps by Obama and the moving football. The man is delivering well for the status quo ante, not so well for the change message which many believed and won him the election.
Remember Opt-out, the giant killer? Those were the good old days, weren’t they?
Spoken like someone who’s spent time in legislative trenches, I hope.
Things are seldom what they appear, and Reid is not going to show his hand.
But Lieberman has now made himself politically radioactive.
That’s progress.
As for Rahm… he’s all about deals.
Rahm is all about deals and for the most part, so am I. I think this is Reid’s strategy. He’s trying to get to 60 and then he could use reconciliation to get the public option. This was the talk about 2 or 3 months ago. Splitting up the bill into what needs 60 votes and what can get through with 51.
The American people want the public option. I know there is at least 50 votes in the Senate for a public option. Reid needs the public option or he’s pretty much dead in 2010.
Ditto, think you’ve got it spot on.
I’m a tea bagger :) And as far as what Reid can do, how can Reid save the Obama Presidency if he can’t even control Joe?
Obama already has 2012 locked. Republicans don’t have anyone to run. I’m worried about health care, not Reid or Obama.
10% unemployment jobs are not coming back if unemployment stays that way and Obama wins he will have made history.
Everyone knows that by 2012 unemployment will not be 10%. It will start coming down this year and all Democrats have to do is remind people how we got to where we are and if the Republicans are back in control things will take a nose dive again.
2010 will not be 1994.
Mark my words.
If wishes were horses, we’d all be riding.
I don’t see unemployment improving, and the Democrats are as much part of the problem as the GOoPers.
Then vote third party or Republican. I don’t care.
Unemployment will be down and still going down by 2012.
It might be under 10 percent, but it might not be down enough and Obama and the Democrats in Congress have to be seen doing something about it. It wasn’t that long ago that 7% unemployment was scary.
Given that Helicopter Ben seems to be Herbert Hoover reborn no that won’t happen unless we get an FDR sized job stimulus plan or we risk a Japanese style lost decade of economic growth.
The Japanese propped up their dead banks and took forever to clear bad loans off the books. I think wages and job growth slowed too I’ll have to check.
We did need a bigger jobs/stimulus bill, but we just got a 1.1 trillion dollar budget through for this coming year and most of the recovery act will be spent in 2010. Add on top another round of infrastructure spending and aid to states and 2010 could be a lot better year than 2009 was.
Consider them marked.
Now mark these:
After the election, Obama will be hailed by Joe Lieberman as the new Newt Gingrich.
If you get my drift. Barack sure would.
Well, we can be reasonably sure he has the support of Wall Street, the banks and the healthcare industry “locked” in 2012.
But too much can happen between now and then.
Reality, for example.
Go cry about it.
Respectfully, I suggest that you go censor yourself.
There, fixed it for ya.
Okay, I’ll try: Tee hee.
Am I doing it right?
I’m not sure that my analysis is correct, but if Obama’s a master political martial artist, he never needed to control Lieberman. He needed to draw Lieberman into exposing what a fraud he is.
IF that was the strategy (and I’m not sure that it was), then it was terrific.
And now, to let the GOP civil war unfold, already in progress behind the scenes methinks.
If your scenario proves true then I agree:)
I think your analysis is probably correct – I’ve had the same one for months. You’re a good reader of tea leaves.
Here’s hoping.
And if this was the strategy, I watch with admiration.
Clearly, alone on this thread… but still…
I do not think you understand the difficulties of the reconciliation process, and you certainly have not addressed the same. It is not particularly easy procedurally, not are there necessarily the 50 votes for a public option via that mechanism. The people in this forum are far from ignorant, and are certainly not tea baggers; don’t wander in with simpleton statements and rank platitudes like you have and expect any respect.
IWhen those in power want to get things done in Washington [their way] hard things can get easier and easy things can get harder.
Real quick.
The Republicans used reconciliation to get Bush his tax cuts for the wealthy and the average voter didn’t really even know the difference. We can use reconciliation to do something that will actually help struggling Americans.
Alas, we can’t. And our representatives in Congress have other priorities.
The Senate for example is now is training to strip every vestige of progressive reform out of the House effort to take on the finance industry. Expect Rahm to really get in Harry’s face if things don’t go his way in this new challenge to change the way things get done in Washington.
His way?
Rahm’s goal is the make BushWorld look like socialism.
Bush world was socialism for the rich. Tax cuts, war profiteering, and the grand finale was the bailout.
Progressives can hate on Rahm all they want, but I don’t. I kinda of like him. I’m all for getting progressive ideas into major policies and actually steering the debate of the country, rather than just demanding 100% of everything and then holding my breath and stomping my feet like a child.
Look were we are right now as a country. We are moving towards a better health care system, the House just passed the most sweeping financial reform since FDR was around and our president is actually taking the threat of global warming seriously.
If progressives are going to sit around and pout about where we are right now, then I’m really at a lose for words. That’s just plain stupid. Progressives will never have a complete lock on the Democratic Party. We need moderate, centrists and even some conservatives to keep a majority.
I’m with Rahm. Getting something is better than nothing.
Jesus, this sounds like an audition at the Comedy Club.
Are you just being ironic?!!!
Saying this is a movement “toward a better health care system” is like a football coach whose team went 0 and 16 last season saying the 1 and 15 season this year is a movement toward a better football team.
Sorry, but the relationship I focus on is the gap between what Obama and the Democrats promised us on the campaign trail and this insidious bullshit they pawn off as “reform” today.
As for the House finance reform package, two words: Barney Frank. Mr reform? Yeah, right.
And then the Senate will manage to make this appear like a script from Michael Moore.
The only thing “progressive” that Obama takes seriously is everything that has absolutely nothing to do with either Wall Street or the military industrial complex.
He is a liar and thief. A thief? Well, like Bush, he stole from the poor and the middle class and gave it to the rich.
Other than that, though, I couldn’t agree with you more.
Honey, he’s a 20-some year old kid who was in college in 2006. He’s got no idea how to play/talk respectfully in the Big Leagues.
[Not that being 20-something sentences one to stupidity like this. (See the very intelligent and eloquent Cassie.) Just that in this case, it’s coincidental.]
Fired?? Shit, Obama will probably promote him — if there’s anywhere to promote him to.
No healthcare deal that satisfies the public by New Years I’m sure the Dems are polling the deal now Rahm might get fired.
The President however cannot look strong signing any deal after Joe said its has to be his way or a filibuster.
Given all the work we have done defining Joe as negative on healthcare any deal Joe blesses the public will be suspicious of.
Obama needs a healthcare bill he can be proud of this isn’t it.
From your mouth to Obama’s ear.
i just fear he’s not listening. He’s so focused on that signing ceremony in the Rose Garden, he doesn’t give a shit what he signs.
That SNL skit was prophetic.
He will “resign to pursue other interests” in time to run for Obama’s old Senate seat.
He never intended to stay very long. I don’t think he minds being the “Bad Guy” when he factors all the national political goodwill he’s generating for being Obama’s hatchetman.
Boxturtle (Rahm is being a good Sherpa and he will be rewarded)
Your saying he wants Obama’s Senate seat but from there it a quick jump…to the WH. Rahm could easily make every Lefty stay home that election.
Is Rahm Emanuel president? No. Is Barack Obama cowering in some corner of the Oval Office (good luck with that) while his rogue Chief of Staff runs amok? No.
Time to quit blaming Rahm for doing his master’s bidding.
I’ve had a hard time deciding where Rahm can do less harm…
where he is now, in the WH, or if he were still in Congress, cutting deals.
From where I sit, it may be a toss-up.
Again, Rahm has not acted independently of the president. Voters gave Obama and other Dem leaders a strong mandate to enact sweeping reform and through a combination of fecklessness and cowardice they have pissed it away.
Not at all surprised that the White House would try to cover up the effort to push Reid to make a deal with Lieberman.
Lieberman has screwed both the White House and Reid royally, forcing them into a position in which there are no longer any ways to even pretend that what’s left has any real reform in it.
The line is drawn. Now they have to choose to stand with the American people, or against them.
Just as the White House tried to pressure Reid, I think Reid is the right person on whom to apply pressure.
I’ve posted a diary entitled RECONCILIATION = MAJORITY RULE., to return attention to FDL’s petition from Nov 23.
Whether Reid leads or folds, we have to do everything possible to highlight him as having stood with the American people, or against them.
Using reconciliation won’t get all of the reforms through. Reid has to break up the bill into two parts. First put everything into one bill that can get 60 votes, then put the public option in a bill and then use reconciliation to get the public option.
I do not believe there is any part of the bill that can get 60 votes. Lieberman is only feigning a desire to vote with the Dems to drag things out. Like the Republicans, when it is time to vote he will vote against, no matter what it contains.
Wrong. Without the public option and medicare buy-in, Snowe and Collins will be in. We need to bring them into the mix to create a Republican civil war.
Wake up, people.
WRONG, like Lieberman, Snowe and Collins are only feigning interest to muddy the water.
Wake up tarheellefty.
OK. Go cry about it. We’ll get this done. Thanks.
If delusional ranting is all that is required I believe you will.
With your magnetic personality, and skills at dealing with people, I’m sure you’ll garner a lot of “followers.”
Right, because that’s what I said.
Go cry about it. Thanks.
No the moderate GOPers never make an unpopular stand ever.
True, but Snowe and Collins might vote for it.
What Lieberman really announced this weekend was his retirement from elective politics. He’s now in the process of securing the job he’ll have after his Senate career.
Obama would divorce Michelle and disown his kids before he’d get rid of Rahm. Dumbass.
A link worth checking out! March on Washington
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=169917060735
This group has the wrong date. Inaguration was Jan. 20th:
I’m all for a march, just would like real leadership.
What the hell are you talking about?
The facebook page said that January 15th is the one year anniversary of the inauguration, but it was January 20th.
What Rahm told Reid is this:
“Harry, we have given Uncle Joe veto power over every administration policy through the 2010 election, we have let him sleep in the Lincoln bedroom with insurance industry lobbyists, we will let him guide the administration’s Israeli policy, we have invited him to every White House function until we’re out of here in 2016, we have a portrait of him hanging in the Oval Office, we have changed Bo’s name to Joe…
….so the least Congress can do is give him everything he wants up on the Hill. Isn’t that why the voters elected the Democrats in 2008—to change the way things get done in Washington?”
Who’s chartering the buses to bring 500,000 people to the steps of the Capitol and the WH. This tragedy is morphing into farce.
Clearly unHoly Joe’s vote is worth more to Obama and Rahm than the platform, the principles, and at least half the voters in the Democratic party.
Too bad that the bill they’re getting isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on.
I’m considering changing my voter registration to a party with more balls, assuming there’s one out there that isn’t also batshit insane.
In 2010, there’s going to be a party.
My regrets,
I have other commitments.
The very weak medicare buy-in was the last scrap of anything that could even be called reform.
It’s out.
There are no longer any ways for the White House and Reid to water this down and still even pretend it’s reform.
Leiberman has done us a big favor by putting them in this position.
It’s all on Reid now. The White House tried to pressure him. We must too!
Now we want a strong public option. Nothing less.
See the petition RECONCILIATION = MAJORITY RULE.
Sign the petition.
Spread the word.
Lessee now…y’all correct me if I’m wrong.
Isn’t this the same Joe Lieberman whom the White House and the democratic congress refused to block from the chairmanship of the Senate’s Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs committee, or to discipline in any way for his support of John McCain during the election, because:
“We might need him for close votes…”???
(No bitter smileface big ENOUGH… :o) )
Surely there is someone in the ranks of the democratic leadership who deserves credit for the political wizardry and sheer “savvy” (Love that word!) of keeping Short-ride Joe “on board”.
Just think how awful it would have been if he’d gone off the reservation and the health insurance industry was inserting him up Obama and Reid’s butts like a barbed-wire suppository. The shame of it, if that had happened.
Joe provided the 60th vote to get cloture on the omnibus bill. He’s helping Kerry get to 60 votes on a climate/energy bill. Keeping Joe around is a pain in the ass, but it is better than having a solid “NO” vote every time.
Yep, I think that’s the one. He’s a real beaut ain’t he?
Yeah. Looks like they meant that the opposite way from what we thought they did.
And with his behavior even Nate is calling him “the deadest incumbent since Santorum”. At this point you let him sulk his way into the Republican Party. He won’t even have to be Scozzafava’d. Joe Lieberman must be hoping there is some way to save this bill because the outraged voters will take it out on him more than anyone. You don’t miraculously change when there is a once-in-a-generation opportunity to pass anything.
Not much spew from Republicans past couple of days. They’re having too much fun watching the Democrats slit their own throats.
Emptywheel, apparently you have no clue how things work in Washington. Rahm Emanuel would never have gone to Harry Reid without Obama’s approval, and probably request. Obama is the problem, not Rahm Emanuel. If Obama really wanted the public option or medicare buy in, Rahm would never have gone to Reid. Until we get it that neither Obama or Emanuel, or ever Reid for that matter are the real problem we will continue to rely on persons or pesonalities to act on our behalf. Our system of government is fundamentally corrupt and broken. Until we change the way elections are financed and run, and the media who inform us, we will continue to see bullshit laws like this so-called health reform act.
*snerk*
Clearly you’re a stranger in these parts.
Boy are you barking up the wrong tree. dstrong, you are an ignoramus, and are broadcasting your stupidity in public.
Bob in AZ
I have to ask: Is Rahm completely out of the woods relative to Fitz/Blago?
Bmaz, this is your turf. Talk to us. :o)
I don’t think he is yet actually. I think Blago’s lawyers are on the right track for dragging him in deep; but it is yet to be seen how the trial judge rules on evidentiary motions in limine made by the government trying to limit that attempt. If he gives Blago’s defense halfway decent latitude then it could get pretty interesting.
The defense plan is likely to keep Rahm personally threatened. Bad testimony at the wrong time could really mess up Rahm’s presumed senate race. The defense knows Rahm will use his extensive connections to protect himself and they hope to derive secondary benefit from that. Likely there are other people with influence in similar positions.
Blago’s lawyer strikes me as a rather cagy fellow, based on his actions so far.
Boxturtle (Blago is a Crook, but I did enjoy seeing him punk Reid)
Speaking of looking terrible, what about dem AZ Cards? 5 turnovers in the first half?!?!??? (silver lining on these clouds: SF could only turn those 5 turnovers into 17 points.)
What do the AZ Cards and Randy Moss have in common?
When they’re good, they’re very, very good;
But when they’re bad, they’re horrid.
Now to get caught up on all the comments on this thread.
Bob in AZ
Oh, Bob, the Cards have looked HORRIBLE!! And Warner’s at the helm!!
Leinart is warming up, though.
Liarman has no motive to deal. If he agrees to anything all of a sudden, he loses all leverage. As long as he refuses to deal, everyone falls all over themselves trying to make a deal with them. He’s playing hard to get, and he’s very good at that. One would think Rahm would know that.
Bob in AZ
As Glenn Greenwald has been at pains to point out via roll call votes of the past five years, there are, in the Senate, 20 to 25 reliably progressive Senators–Democrats who consistently voted against the Iraq war, against the Military Commissions Act, against Alito, against telecom immunity, etc etc.
If you were lucky, that’s the number of votes a bait-and-switch on reconciliation might get. Civil war in the Republican party? It would start one in the Democratic party first, and a much more vicious one.
A credible threat of reconciliation would be a perfectly usable ploy, wholly unobjectionable. And if laid out and negotiated in advance, I’m sure it would get more than the 20-25 votes (but not at all sure it would get to 50.) But submarining reconciliation until after a regs vote, would leave that crafty Reid zero power to broker deals in the Senate on so much as a Post Office naming, after such a stunt.
FWIW we agree, in that I think this bill is likely worse than doing nothing, and I think doing nothing is catastrophic. Any doubts I might have had on that score have been laid to rest by recent stock performance of various health care and insurance companies.
This is what I’m worried about. After a crap bill is passed the Blue Dogs have political cover they voted for healthcare they can tell their voters.
Just how will Harry get them to vote again to make the bill better when they don’t want too.
Absolutely.
Exactly correct. As I said above, it is not that simple to start with, and I don’t think, at this point the way it has been played, there would even be 50 votes as a standalone.
There has been some shitty momentum, but don’t forget about this little thing called the House of Representatives. Obama always did say that he would play the strongest role when it came to strategizing how to reconcile the two bills.
It’s interesting that it appears only 3 of us see this in the same light; me, tarheellefty (who has pissed off so many great FDLers on this thread), and you.
And possibly georgewalton, with whom I agree.
Reid is Majority Leader.
He still has cards to play, and now HoJo has pissed him off.
If my fortunes were riding on HoJo, I’d be rather nervous right about now because who — other than McCain, who is also political poison — is going to help Joe going forward?
I don’t think people will be sticking their necks out for HoJo after today.
I hope so, but he has said a lot of things he has not backed up.
BTW, anybody know where I can buy some stock in LandMines R us? I hear it’s a growth industry. :o(
Lefty, I think you’re as wrong as two left feet. We have a lot better chance of picking up a couple of blueroach votes, than we do of keeping Lieberman in line. Obama should have had Reid and the dems fire his ass from committee assignments and from the dem caucus, when he walked into the White House. If he’d done that, and then announced that he was going to close Gitmo in 90 days, and kept rolling from there, we wouldn’t even be HAVING this debate.
Instead he’s not taken one political risk, not chanced one ounce of capital, on behalf of progressive causes. He’s made the horrible mistake of “reaching out” to the very people who have dragged us to the brink, and they don’t give a rat’s ass about helping him mount anything LIKE a salvage operation. And to tell you the truth, at this point, I’m starting to think that he doesn’t care much about it, either.
There’s a new thread upstairs for anybody concerned about tarheellefty’s BS surpassing the height of their waders.
So you don’t want a public option?
Thanks, rat.
Still no answer by “lefty” to my question about whether he’s under 25.
Think on those temper tantrums in the grocery store: the similarity is striking.
My contempt for Joe Lieberman, in imitation of Jane’s, known no bounds.
Who is Joe Lieberman working for? That is not a rhetorical question.
He’s working for the insurance lobby that’s who.
Make Joe irrelevant, use reconciliation to get our holy grail.
Not up to me, is it?
“Who cares if it is 2 separate bills?
That’s nonsense. Do you really think that the democrats in congress would, after all of this, pass this watered-down “reform” bill, and then go back and start over again use reconciliation to get a P.O., or even get medicare for over-55’s?
They’d lose so many democratic votes that it would look like George Bush was president…
Wait a minute…
We’d lose Democratic votes using reconciliation to get a public option?
We’d lose votes getting something that 81% of Democrats and 56% of the general public want?
Dear Lefty, how is kissing Rahm Emannuel’s ass going to get a public option?
I assume you’re thinking of reconciliation. Get real. The chances of getting Obama to back that are in the .003 percentile range.
Obama doesn’t run Congress. If Reid and Pelosi could get a public option bill through Congress, Obama would have to sign it.
What about using the nuclear option? Has anyone discussed that to stop Repbulican filibusters?
I’ve heard Russ talk about it. I’m for that to. I don’t care about pissing off Republicans or weak Democrats. A good bill with a public option is worth going nuclear for if it actually helps the American people.
Hey! We have agreement! :) The nuclear option is looking pretty good to me today.
I’m glad to hear that. Look, I don’t really care what method we use to get the best health reforms through Congress. I’m not here to say this is my idea or that is my idea, I don’t care about personal gain, I care about health care. The American people don’t care how health care reform is passed, just as long as it is something that will help them.
Democrats need to realize that most Americans don’t watch Fox News or listen to conservative talk radio. The teabaggers are a small pissed off minority that are fearful of an America that is turning browner.
Fuck those idiots. That’s not America. Democrats need to grow a pair and push this down the Republicans throat.
All progressive Democrats should now begin to wage war upon Joe Lieberman, the state of Conn, and everything that Joe Lieberman stands for. Stripping his chairmanship should only be the beginning. We should boycott all things Lieberman and all things Conn. He is waging a personal vendetta against the progressives and we should reciprocate! Then, if this Scoop Jackson of a President and his Clinton-channeling Chief of Staff don’t get the message, we should vote elsewhere come 2012.
We don’t have anything against Connecticut. They don’t want unHoly Joe any more, either.
emptywheel, are you sure this is really about Lieberman? Seems to me that Lieberman is the convenient obstacle for Obama. He’s the cut-out, making sure that the inside deal the WH made with industry gets done. He “balks” and then Rahm orders everyone to play along. It’s all karaoke. Probably the deal they struck with Lieberman to help him win as an “Independent” — you help us enact our corporate agenda as a mole, we’ll get you re-elected. I don’t think we’re dealing with stupid people (Democrats like Reid & Obama) that always seem to “lose” and don’t know how to negotiate, we are dealing with a bunch of frauds, the masters of karaoke.
watertiger is upstairs!
Late Night: “Look Upon My Demands and Despair!”
Why won’t Sanders or Feingold or Franken join a Republican filibuster if the bill gets gutted for Joe-Bama? Why is it only the corporatists who take stands on these things?
Probably because they are not going to waste an entire year of trying to move a health bill through Congress. You think this is easy? What Reid can’t snap his fingers and then get 60 votes? Wake up. This bill is far from perfect, but the CBO said that 31 million people will now get coverage and we can actually save Medicare and Medicaid.
Should we wait until Medicare is broke and then try to fix it then?
Good idea.
Dude, either you have not read the CBO scoring or you are intentionally misrepresenting it in relation to Medicare/Medicade, but it is one or the other.
No, I can read. The CBO said 31 million extra will be covered and moving Medicare towards a payment system based on quality rather than quantity will save the program huge amounts of money. There is also a commission that will study how to get more savings out of the program on a yearly basis. That alone will greatly increase the programs solvency.
The primary caps and restrictions that were to allow that have been removed and the “commission” has been weakened to the point to where it is probably meaningless. See here; and the situation has gone further downhill since even this article was written. Please try to be up to date on your information before you berate people with outdated rosy eyed bullshit.
Hi, Bmaz. It’s kinda like old times here, aint it? :o)
I don’t mean to make light of it; I think this little…intramural…debate is necessary. I mean, Jane (with whom I have gone around, a few times… :o) ) is doing Yeoman’s work on holding the shitbirds’ feets to the fire. Can’t praise her enough for that.
It’s a reality-check about this administration that we all need. And so is the argument about what congress is doing, or not doing, about healthcare.
While I’m at it, I think Marcie’s right about Emmanuel. He’s a born Machiavelli, and I believe that Obama listens to him too much.
I also think that a lot of Obama’s problem is that he’s just too damn decent. He really believes that we can still have a blueberry pie ending in Afghanistan, and that the republicans will come around to helping him with the salvage operation. I think Rahm is pitching himself as the dealer that can cut the deals to achieve that, when, in fact, we’re in way too deep for anything but the band-aid-on-the-hairy-leg solutions to our problems.
Gitmo shoulda been closed no later than three months in.
Obama should have, at the least, started with single-payer, instead of never having it on the table. And he should have pounded the pulpit for the truth; that France, England, and Canada, e.g., have better and cheaper health care than us.
He should have, as quietly as possible, canned the warbot brass, starting with Petraeus (I know, people will say that would have freed him up to start bitching about “who lost Afghanistan?” So what? He’ll probably do it, anyway…) and replaced them with generals who would publicly say that we’ve done all we can do, in BOTH shitmires, and it’s time to get out.
Instead, he’s getting his butt kicked, and so are we. If he/we can’t get the change we need with the margins we have now, what’s going to happen after the mid-terms, if we drop to razor-thin majorities…or no majorities? ‘scuse the OT, but I think the voters will turn their backs on the promise that excited them and got them to put him in with a landslide…with a vengeance, since he’s looking more and more like just another political hack.
We wouldn’t have won every time, but losing honorably, to the idjits who got us where we are, would have caused a lot of people to support him even more strongly. If he and the dems had put up a bill with a strong public option, and it had been voted down, they should have just kept putting it up. I promise you, the republicans and blueroaches couldn’t have stood it. About the third or fourth time, they would have folded like napkins.
Now? We don’t know what’s going to happen, but it looks like either a faux reform, or none at all. I lean toward the latter, just to be honest. :o(
Pretty much agreed. And I have long thought Petraeus is the future nominee of the GOP; only question is whether it is 2012 or 2016. Obama has only further set him up.
That’s the most depressing thing I have heard all day and it’s been a pretty depressing day.
Thank God you’re not a Cardinals’ fan.
*Ducks & Runs*
You know Petro, I love Singletary and I’ve had a soft spot for the Niners ever since Joe Montana put on the uniform and I can’t help rooting for them. But right now I could just weep… I’m 13-2 this weekend in my football pool, but I put big points on the Cards and I just know it will cost me the top spot for the week. My evening is positively filled with disappointment…
After Hey-Zoos Warner’s display last week, I’d have bet the Farm that the Cards would smoke the Niners.
Singletary has proven tonight, that his ability to craft a great Defensive core is a success.
Can I offer you some Chocolate Cheesecake ?
Oh, heavens, yes!!
*Passing Heavenly Chocolate Cheesecake all around*
Thanks ever so much!
Mmmmmmmmmmmm ;-)))))
Thank you so much!
If it was the weekend, I’d have made Chocolate Martinis … *g*
Thanks Petro! Nothing like a yummy chocolate dessert to improve one’s humor : )
I wish that I had some fresh Apple Pie a la mode to offer you … ;-)
Your pool might be doing it wrong.
(I played in my sister’s pool for a year or so, while it was running. They had a season pot and a weekly pot. A quarter of the season pot was for whoever picked the most losers. At some point, when things were bad, it was worth going for that.)
I’ve got a lock on the loser prize, but alas, you are correct there is a flawed assumption in our pool rules about the goal being to win ; )
Welcome to the fucking Cardinals. They are nothing if not inconsistent.
That’s what I get for not listening to you my friend ; ) Now pardon me, while I go repent my sins ; )
They were on the way back until they screwed up the PAT. After that, everything went downhill.
Bob in AZ
Actually, I’m assuming Obama will replace Biden with Petraeus in 2012. Him or Joe Lieberman.
At which point he’ll be running as anything but a Democrat, no matter what the ballot says.
(Those of us who really are Democrats will take our votes elsewhere. Possibly permanently.)
Back in the 60s and the 70s when I cut my teeth politically, many Democrats didn’t just pretend to be Democrats. They actually took the liberalism of the New Deal and The Great Society, well, seriously.
Or a hell of a lot more seriously than the lackey Wall Street Democrats of the DLC stripe do today.
Sadly, many younger progressives today have no viswceral or experiential understanding of what it was like to be part of a liberal movement to make things reasonably more just for reasonably more people. It’s not their fault of course. No one can be but born when they were. But as such they are willing to compromise with “deals” that would have been unthinkable 40 years ago.
It’s a tragedy for democracy, really. Not to mention a more civil [and civilized] social compact.
Senator Brown is a “new deal” Dem and he was visibly disappointed this evening. Encouraged us all to “stay engaged”
So many more folks back then insured by the unions they worked for. What was it something like 35% of the working force in the 50’s , 60’s in unions
Whoa, hope you saw Ed Schultz call bullshit on the kabuki, particularly the Lieberman Twirlly-Whirl.
thanks so much. could not find this earlier
Or, to rephrase it, “Obama is a born Machiavelli, and I believe Emanuel listens to him too much”.
Neither one of them are true idealists like Geithner and Summers.
Well, idealist in the sense that Henry Kissinger and the Bilderbergers use the word on Wall Street.
Weirdly, I think that Obama will look much better in retrospect.
If he’d started out as you recommend, the ‘unmasking’ of the GOP that occurred over summer, fall, and up to today would not have been evident.
Sometimes, you simply have to let assholes hang themselves by their own ropes.
That’s what I see happening.
It is a painful process and incredibly frustrating.
But this is a longer process — part of it public education, part of it giving some Dems who have not traditionally been highlighted by the media a chance to get some experience.
IMVHO, Wyden has really developed since his first interviews last spring; he knows exactly what he wants to say (‘competition, competition, competition!’) and Sherrod Brown and other Dems are more knowledgeable, and now they have a more clear sense of who is out to screw them.
Now, they just have to dig in and let the GOP implode.
Along with Wall Street.
Right now, Tiger Woods looks more trustworthy than HoJo, the GOP, or Wall Street.
That’s not all bad.
My contempt for Joe Lieberman would fill the Mariana Trench. To the surface.
Olberman is trying to knock out Dems in 2010. Do you think he could be thinking about a run with Sarah Palin?
oops Lieberman
Hey tarhee on another thread you mentioned pass what they have and then pass the public option or medicare by in via reconciliation. How likely is this scenario folks
Hey Tanbark, Obama just announced you are getting some new Gitmo neighbors.
Saw that:
Lefty @ 156:
You’re darn right we’d lose votes. (I’m talking about a Senate vote.)
If they, after all of this, passed this half-a-loaf (and really, as long as they’re talking about no public option and “mandating” purchasing health care from the same people who’ve been ripping us off, it’s not even that.) and then went BACK for reconciliation, there would be democrats bailing like rats. And again, Obama would never throw his support for that.
As for “Obama doesn’t run congress”; you have to be kidding. His coattails were a mile long, those big democratic congressional numbers were, in the main, due to the excitement which HE generated in his run, not the individual dem congers who were running down-ticket.
He could have come in and said to Reid and Pelosi and the democratic leadership:
“You guys shit here.”
“Okay. Now shit over there.”
“Good job. Now, back over here…” and they’d have done it.
Instead, he left a leadership vacuum that let them disintegrate into a jellyfish herd. And that’s why we’re having this intramural fight, about “smart” or “chickenshit”. If he’d hit the ground running, we might have lost a few, early on, but I promise you, the “winning” would have cost the republicans and their “No!” and “No!” and “No!” again, crap, a lot more than it would have cost Obama and the dems.
The bad news is that we’re getting close to the point of no return on this little jaunt. If he doesn’t grow a Lincoln-Truman gene or two, and soon, I think we’ll be in deep ca-ca, for the mid-terms and for the rest of his first and possibly, only, term.
The Swiss and Germans mandate everyone to get insurance and their system is completely private. They both don’t even have a Medicare equivalent for seniors, so in that aspect, we are already a more progressive nation than either of the two. The Democrats will not lose any votes mandating that everyone has coverage because more than 80% of the public already have coverage. Add in the fact that this mandate will lower the cost for those who already have coverage and it is a win for Democrats.
Also, you need to remember we just had a President who thought he ran Congress. Obama actually follows the Constitution and respects the 3 separate branches of government.
Look at this from the electoral standpoint. The only Senators that are getting weak in the knees are from states that McCain won, minus Joe, he’s just an asshole. Obama getting out publicly to push these Senators would likely push them towards a no, rather than compromising.
Dream on, kiddo.
Cite, please? There is abundant contrary evidence. As any reader of ew would know.
I have to disagree with the title of the article. The White House is making the White House look bad. Rahm is just an underling.
Selise has been pretty eloquent on why the nuclear option would be a very very bad choice at any time. Anyone who expects the D margin to narrow at all in the midterms should be particularly careful about advocating for pulling that particular trigger.
Phred @ 208; I think Bmaz is probably right. But actually, I’m not too worried about that.
I believe that, for example, right now in Iraq, are “the good old days”. It’s not going to get any better. And in neither 2012 nor 2016 do I think that Petraeus is going to be able to pimp the surge in Iraq (which was nothing more than bushCo bribing the Sunni’s to lay low to let dubya and his coterie of wizards slink back to their corporate sinecures…) like he was a triumphant Ike coming home wearing the victor’s laurels for D-Day, etc.
In fact, I don’t think he’ll be able to point to much of anything on his resume’. Of course, if Obama persists in his disappearing act, Petreaus can break wind authoratively, and sound presidential by comparison.
Obama even signed off on McChrystal, and look what happened there. He’s been gamed to his toenails, in Afghanistan. Disheartening, to me.
You know what? I think practically ALL Americans are tired of “At least he/she is better than fill-in-the-blank.” I know I am, and so, it seems, are a lot of other people on here.
Incidentally, that’s why Lefty is getting treated to a pretty good dogpile. :o)
The Bush warmongers knew Iraq would turn to rubble when they did not send in enough troops and disbanded the Iraqi army…they knew
At what point do you think they had it figured out that McCain would never become president? From that point on, they would have been loading the next President’s Mission Impossible card with guarantees to fail.
Bob in AZ
not sure. Just remember watching McCains face maybe the first time he heard Sarah Palin speak in Dayton Ohio. He looked like he was going to have a stroke when he heard her. He knew immediately that the campaign had made a huge huge mistake.
Kay Bailey Hutchison should have been a Republican contender. They would have not lost by so much
I suspect by July 2008 they started getting desperate.
By August, they realized they had no bench depth, and probably Bill Kristol, Randy Scheunemann, and heaven only knows what other neocon wankers passed off their Sarah Palin ‘Hail Mary’.
I’m still confused about Palin, though.
A long time Alaskan pointed out to me that:
1. When Palin was running for Governor, she went up to Fairbanks and the Fairbanks GOP was all ready to host her but she didn’t even show up for their meal. Which pissed them off, but also signalled to people fed up with the
Big Oil PartyGOP that maybe Palin was worth considering.2. Then, when all that VECO shit hit the fan and Toobz Stevens and his son and the other
lobbyistslegislators were investigated by the FBI, Palin seemed to be well out of it. Whether she aided, abetted, or was simply off somewhere getting the demons exorcised, my source did not know. But he thought it was weird.3. Evidently, Todd Palin is like, ‘the Dale Earnhardt of snow mobiling’. Evidently, Todd’s passion is snowmobiling. Apparently, some huge part of their house (or building?) is all about snow mobiles. (Go figure.)
4. There’s something weird with Trig (not his Downs’, but the whole birth thing). My source doesn’t know details, but like many of us did not find the story of her flying back from Dallas all that plausible.
Edward Teller probably knows a whole lot more than I do; the people that I know in Alaska tend to mostly hate politics, period. And they don’t have much regard for politicians.
But I’m in total agreement that whoever saw that McCain was not likely to be elected started loading the sinking ship with as much ballast as they could create, probably beginning around June or July of 2008.
Sarah Palin represents the talibangelical wing of the Republican party.
Talk to Action is a good source of information on this.
A significant number of the phrases that she uses have different meanings to those in the dominionist religious community.
These people have a plan, and secrecy is part of it.
http://www.talk2action.org/?op=search&topic=sarah_palin
Amen to that. There are enough implausible elements in her story to sink a ship. The medical records of her alleged pregnancy with Trig have never been made public. Something weird went down, but I don’t have enough information to guess what.
Bob in AZ
Thanks tanbark. I can’t go so far as to say your interpretation of the poltical future of Petraeus is cheering given the underlying disaster it is predicated on, but nonetheless between that and the Cheesecake, I’m feeling better. Besides it is hard to root against the Niners ; )
I’d agree with you on Iraq, but for one thing … everyone over there has a price. Getting some big contracts negotiated with Shell, Exxon, etc. and showing those
WarlordsPoliticians how much $$$ they would accumulate over the next 20- 30 years, will make them stop fighting and get around to building peace, to go with their Palaces.George @ 224: Thanks for the response.
I don’t think Obama is a very good Machiavelli. He’s getting his ass handed to him pretty regular, and at the rate he’s going, the democratic congressional margin he’ll have to work with after 2010 won’t make for a good game of stud poker, if that.
Well, he’s not a real Machiavellian of course. He just plays one in the White House.
And after all that practice on the campaign trail, he has gotten rather good at it. ; o )
Just imagine: we could have had Howard Dean. Instead, we got Rahm. What a deal.
That is one error that I really cannot bear.
If not for Howard Dean, there wouldn’t be 60 ‘Dem-ish’ Senators to be getting screwed by HoJo and Ben Nelson.
Nevertheless, this whole mess highlights that the filibuster has outlived its usefulness, and that the Dems have to attract more talent; the GOP is almost RIP.
Unless you think that McCain, Chuck ‘Death Panels’ Grassley, and Orrin Hatch constitute a future party. in which case, what have you been drinking?!
Petro’s chocolate martinis. They’re really quite delish.
Ah good, I see you’ve had some … *g*
If we were to get a third party…
He’s being awfully quiet, isn’t he? ‘Twill be interesting to hear him when he does decide to speak.
You doing ok there with your chocolate martini? Maybe Petro will come by with another splash of that creamy dark chocolate. Yeah.
You know I was thinking about what Senator Sherrod Brown said tonight on Countdown. While he seemed beaten down and disappointed. He pointed out how hard progressive, blogs etc have been pushing their Reps how he believes that health care reform would not even be where it is without this pushing. He seemed to be sending a messaged KEEP PUSHING
Let’s not make a deal on Health Care ( and the clip of Lieberman saying that folks should be able to buy into Medicare and Medicaid also
Senator Sherrod Brown)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/#34423117
Senator Sherrod Brown “stay engaged, stay involved” Brown really comes out gives kudos to activist. Worth the listen
“Let’s not make a deal”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/#34423117
A week or so ago, Brown commented to Maddow that the difference between the health care failure of today and of 1994 is in great part ‘the Internet’.
I don’t know about you, but when I check my email account(s), I have messages from people that I know in health care related fields who are really following this closely. If the Dems screw it up, people are certainly going to notice.
I think Sherrod Brown is very much on target on this topic.
Brown in often on target on many topics. The Real deal
Yeah, but it’s the same old calculus: If Ds stop voting because of this, then things will get even worse. A Rahm or a JoeLie relies on people eventually realizing that stark, tragic fact. So they think their poop smells like ice cream and they can get away with any crazy shit they want.
And yes, actually, things can still get a whole lot worse.
I heard that, too. He’s right, I think.
Mostly in life, we don’t get to choose between Rose Gardens and Hell Holes. Mostly we get stuff in between, and we have to muddle through.
Bob in AZ
Brown has been working his ass off for the people for a long time
I did not read all comments, but it appears as though “Jasonsong” is conspicuously absent from this thread after Jane’s exposure of him.
Luckily, I missed that one…. Jane is brilliant at these things. (As is bmaz.)
Petro… so, next weekend d’ya have time for those Chocolate Martini thingamajigs?
Cause they sound scrumptious!
Yes … I
mightwill even share my fav recipe …We all have to work a little harder now that Freep has gone all soft and unreliable.
I haven’t seen Freep for some time now, but then I miss a lot of the threads….
Has Freep abandoned his/her duties?!
I count on him!
Damn Trollkiller just shows up on Trash Talk for the most part now; hard to get good help these days…..
Well… I’m not sure that I would describe Freep as ‘help’… a demigod, perhaps. A sprite? A daemon of some kind? A force of nature…?
Definitely unique.
A sprite or an imp, methinks. Or maybe a sheepdog.
Bob in AZ
Who’s “freep”?
Freepatriot.
I came to your trash talk just to ask about our randiego. And there he was!
I know what you mean. Freep needs to talk with Arpaio to learn some enforcement techniques.
Oh, good god. Keep Freep away from Arpaio. Freep already knows what to do and how to do it. Proximity to Arpaio might turn him into some very unwelcome beast.
Bob in AZ
Emanuel has orchestrated a failure of a first year for his boss…I think he needs to go. Brilliant? I think not, not by a long shot.
Rahm almost certainly thinks he’s winning.
Leen @239; you put your finger on the old debate:
Were the republicans really this stupid, or did they PLAN on Iraq becoming the clusterfuck it is?
I have to believe, the former. There are too many on-the-record statements about what a piece of cake it would be, by the bushites, for them to have to eat, for them to be in any other mindset than it really WOULD be a “cakewalk” that would “pay for itself”.
It cost them (nominally) control of congress in 2006, and then (along with the economic mess…) the whole shittaree, last year. I don’t think that they planned that.
It’s just that Bush’s decision to pull the trigger on Iraq was SO stupid and arrogant, that I admit that it’s hard not to think that they really did do it just to bedevil whomever came after them.
It is going to be the gift that keeps on giving, that’s for sure. 130 people died in those multiple bombings around Baghdad, a few days ago. Hundreds were wounded. If you pro-rate that out according to our relative populations, it’s roughly the equivalent of 1500 dead Americans. Incidentally, I think that’s not something that Petraeus can run on, even if it actually happened on Obama’s watch. 28% of us may adore Sarah Palin, but overall, we’re not THAT stupid.
No, Bush and his minions didn’t have a clue what they were getting into, and Bremer’s canning of the Sunni elements of the Iraqi army wasn’t Machiavellian, to use our busy term; I think it was just boneheaded. It’s also worth noting that Chalabi was pimping hard for Bush to do that, and he was not yet in bad cess with dubya and the neocons. They still thought he was going to be their man in Baghdad.
Which, again, is a good yardstick for their ability to fuck up an anvil.
Petrocelli; your suspicions duly noted :o), but the Iraqi government just negotiated some new contracts, and they weren’t with Shell or Exxon-Mobile; they were with China and Russia. Evidently OUR oil-hounds are not sure enough of the “stability” of Iraq to want to have their people over there just yet…that, or the cost of hiring “contractors” to ride shotgun for them and building mini-green zones, kinda gobbles up the profits. :o)
Methinks Shell & Exxon signed the first contracts. Adding Russia & China just makes the country more stable, going forward.
#291! Is this a record for EW?
I think during the LIbby trial more…they just kept starting a new thread
That’s right. It used to be that their servers started to freak out at about 300 comments, so they’d always put up a new thread if the number of comments got too large. I think their hardware configuration has changed since then, but I’m not in any position to know details.
Bob in AZ
Who’s awfully quiet, fatster?
Not that you’ll ever see this and not that it matters anyway, but I meant Howard Dean is being very quiet right now–or else I’ve not been checking the right news sources.
I haven’t seen Dean on TV since the Dem Party caucus meeting yesterday, but the day before, he was supporting the Senate bill.
Bob in AZ
Dean is speaking up: according to The Plum Line, he thinks the bill should be scrapped.
Ominous; Dean’s the only one that I truly trust on this topic.
I have not heard or read anything about Rahm’s physiscan brother from NIH since this past summers’ “death panels” fiasco.
Even the Google entries all seem to stop after the summer.
Anybody got input as to Zeke’s latest(if any) influence on health care reform policy via Rahm?
We’re probably witnessing it, Gitcheegumee. (Straight answer: No.)
No, I haven’t.
But my distant dealings with people who have been at NIH, they care about the quality of science, not about politics.
Rahm’s brother may have a sibling in the WH, but at the end of a day the NIH cares more about quality of research in my (admittedly second-hand and rather limited) observation.
In fact, he’s sure to be a smart guy.
It wouldn’t surprise me if he just wants to drop out of sight and not be known as ‘Rahm’s brother’, just as another researcher. (IIRC, his field is pediatrics….?)
Now, if we were talking about the Bush administration… well, those jerks didn’t even understand what ‘science’, or objective measures, or research design criteria were. They probably think the term ‘Methods Section’ is a foreign term.
The Bush WH didn’t even understand science, let alone respect it.
I think it’s only reasonable to state that the Obama WH does respect science and in that sense, let’s leave Rahm’s brother out of it. If he is in fact a researcher, he is not judged by his political connections. He’d be judged by the caliber and effects of his research.
Some things really don’t belong in ‘politics’ and researchers do know that, which is why the politicization of things like ‘climate change’ can send them into paroxisms of utter despair. I’ve seen this up close and personal.
Oops you beat me to the punch. What are you drinking today? I owe you.
Bob in AZ
Bob, thanks for helping me out and bringing me up-to-date (prior to the plumline thing). Nice of you.
The plot is certainly thickening. Next I predict our progressive senators and congress people will decide that getting something is better than nothing so they will hold their noses and vote for it. Priceless. Of course the progressive media will come around and support it bcz we dont want the president and our party to fail. The left will scream and shout and in the end they are going to swallow and swallow hard. And progressives wonder why they are on the bottom of the food chain.
Lieberman will get 200% serious WH backing for re-election for having done the administration’s work for them on this.
The administration has always wanted it’s deal with the health industry enacted as law with as few changes as possible and this assures that will happen. Lieberman has simply taken the “centrist” spotlight and the credit for enacting the administration’s deal. Rahmn and Obama could not be more grateful to him and will show that gratefulness in every way they can.
The only threat left to “the deal”, is Dorgan’s Drug Re-Importation Amendment and I suspect the WH is twisting, if not breaking, arms to kill that right now.
I am shocked how the progressive senators caved like a deck of card over the last week and I am also disgusted with all the msnbc hosts and their softball questions to these pathetic senators.
Where is this question from Keith or Rachel: Senator Brown what do you say to the families that make 35 to 55 k a yr and will be forced to by health insurance without the protection of a public option when they do not have 50 dollars left to their name at the end of the month?
Keith: Do you fear those same families come 2012 even if their democrats will vote republican if a republican candidate campaigns on stripping that mandate out of the bill?
I mean come on, The republican party would have a gazillion ads about this mandate come election time and without a pblic option it is polictical suicide!
Where is Pelosi?
She’s preparing to fuck us all by going along with whatever shit the Senate shovels her way. Don’t count on HER. Our only hope for killing this shit is the Progressive Caucus.
At this point I don’t want Obama to have ANYTHING to point to as a justification for more Democraps OR for another term. Reid? Gone in the next election (good riddance asshole). Lieberman? Why listen to that shit? He has no political future at all. He will never be re-elected no matter what party he slithers to next time ’round. He’s finished.
It’s one thirty AM and I read the whole thing. I’m just a random human. My business card says “Schmuck in a Truck.” It doesn’t say genius on my resume’ anywhere. Snarkiness is good therapy, but I’m beyond attitude today. I don’t have a clue, and although I’m decidedly “blue collar,” I’m no slouch. I’m paying attention. I don’t think anyone else has a clue either.
I just say what I always say… “Shut.it.down” I don’t think any form of traditional protest is particularly effective, when we have the largest organized march in human history, and it’s a five minute blip on the local news. This is America, after all and “money talks.”
I have known a few criminals (shhhhh) and it’s axiomatic; If you want to hurt a poor man, you hit his ability to make a living… his truck, his tools, a bullet to the back of the knee cap ala IRA. If you want to hit a rich man, you have to be willing to hurt his family, because he’ll always have more money, more guns, and more lawyers.
I’m not making a suggestion. If I had a clue, I’d put it on that resume’ and get paid better. You tell me when to show up, and I’ll bring my body.
Chicago politician has as much meaning as activist judge. All politicians play the same games.
I can comment from “The Audacity to Win” that both Plouffe and Axelrod wanted Rahm for this job. Obama had reason to trust them because they got him across the finish line and were in the roles of chief of staff as much as a campaign has one.
(p.373)
Obama did not write this book. David Plouffe, who did an outstanding job on the campaign, wrote this book and IMHO deserved to make money off it. Revealingly, Plouffe and Axelrod thought that Bayh was a “safe choice”. Bayh, however, told them that he didn’t think he could deliver even Indiana. It’s no secret that the Obama campaign paid little attention to blogs, but you can see it clearly in the pages here and it makes me more grateful that Eric Boehlert did something to memorialize Campaign 2008 from blogs’ point of view. Blogs are either a branch of “the media” or they represent the base voters. (In fact there is a story about how Plouffe got Adam Nagourney to write a story about how Hillary could not close the deal with pledged delegates, which Markos and Co. very quickly got, and they were contacted by SUPERS who had never thought this through until the NYT said it was so.) The Obama campaign was never about getting out base voters only. It was about getting out new and infrequent voters.
This is entirely too predictable for Rahm. Get something that can pass no matter what. I was hoping that Joe Lieberman was going to pay attention to Jonathan Chait, hardly a DFH, who knows that what he is selling is baloney. Someone in the Senate, the media, anywhere, should confront Joe Lieberman and get him to say what he is for. He is getting by with turning everything down because it is too liberal too easily.
And here is the Forward article on Joe Lieberman from last week in case someone didn’t already link it (Leen, I’m looking at you)
Petrocelli, here:
http://news.antiwar.com/2009/12/14/despite-sense-of-entitlement-us-companies-lose-iraq-oil-auctions/
Orion @ 273:
I don’t think that “we” can get rid of Rahm, or force Obama to do it, but Fitz sure can. And, as Bmaz, who keeps track of this, admits, Rahm aint olly-olly-in-free, relative to Blago, just yet.
It’s too funny; when Obama first came into office, and the whole thing with Blago was going hot and heavy, I was all worried that it would catch Rahm doin’ some indictable quid-pro-quo and hand Obama a big political turd to deal with, his first month in office.
Now? I’m like: “Oookay, Fitz; whatcha got?” :o) :o) :o)
DC is broken. America is busted. Nice knowing y’all.
4jk @ 330:
Just so. If there is NO bill, or if it comes up and gets voted down, Lieberman will be as much the fall guy as Obama. Maybe more. And the republicans won’t escape some of the blame either.
Some good reasons there, for some key democrats to pull their support and say:
“Sorry, folks. Better nothing than this bottle of “healthcare reform” snakeoil.”
I would support that. :o)
And Rahm is an idiot to be pandering to Lieberman and the blueroaches, just to get a “win”. Which means, of course, that so is Obama.
Yeah, Dean’s not saying very much, is he? You’d think this was a made-to- order issue for him.
Here’s his latest. But recognize that this is from plumline.
Bob in AZ
My guess is that Dean is as shocked and angry as we are right now. This happened so fast and the White House betrayal is so stunning that it’s hard to wrap your head around it.
If anyone is interested ActBlue is taking donations to run ads in Rahm Emanuel’s home district. I’ve committed to a monthly donation.
Sorry, I don’t accept the premise. It is not Rahm that is the problem. It is Obama that is the problem. He hired him. He controls him. He can fire him.
Stop making excuses for Obama.
Did you read the comments before you dumped that here?
Who made any excuses for Obama? Where do you come up with this spurious statement? There have been a plethora of folks just like you, that have never been seen before here, that showed up out of the blue to come spew this line. Are you being paid for this nonsense?
Rahm is painting the White House in the colors Obama chose himself.
This legislation will make work for the IRS, HHS and DoJ they won’t believe. Because tens of millions of Americans won’t be able to afford legally mandated insurance, and if they could, it would be so full of holes it would make Swiss cheese look like cast iron. Whatever coverage the anything but no risk insured wants to buy will be poor value and high cost. Millions won’t buy it, including millions who could afford it but who will vote “No” with their meager pocketbooks.
Bush attempted to criminalize free speech. Obama is institutionalizing his excesses and adding to the list of Main Street criminals those who refuse to buy fraudulent insurance products.
Health care will be in a worse mess if this legislation passes using the framework constructed by this reprehensible Senate. The demolition of the middle class is picking up pace and Obama is wielding the wrecking ball.
Fatster@347; ditto to Bobschacht, on Dean’s latest:
“Let’s euthanize this sucker.”
Works for me. And, it works even if we can’t “reconcile” our differences with the jellyfish herd. If this is the best we can get, I say, to hell with it, and let the political chips fall where they will.