Whitehouse: Talk Shows Shouldn’t Make Prosecutorial Decisions

/72 Comments/in /by

Not like it’ll matter to Republicans who are attacking Eric Holder’s decision. But Sheldon Whitehouse slammed Republicans for beating up on federal prosecutors.

And then he got really steamed, accusing the Republicans of politicizing prosecutorial opinions.

From my perspective, popular opinion is a very dangerous bellwether to hold prosecutors to. … I think it gets worse when you move from popular opinion to legislative opinion. … And if there’s any way to make, it worse it’d be to allow it to be influenced by talk show opinion.

image_print
72 replies
  1. bobschacht says:

    I seem to recall that the genocide in Ruanda was fueled by radio personalities who whipped up the public to do the bloody work.

    How far away from that are we now?

    Bob in AZ

    • Phoenix Woman says:

      That’s how twisted our media has become over the past few decades. The sickness accelerated with the destruction of the Fairness Doctrine and really got off the ground when Rupert Murdoch gave Newt Gingrich a $4.5 million book deal in exchange for repealing the law preventing foreign nationals from owning TV networks in the US.

  4. earlofhuntingdon says:

    Obama, too, has what Jonathan Turley on Rachel tonight called a Queen of Hearts problem: “sentence first-verdict afterwards”.

    In a televised interview, Obama spoke of an assured guilty verdict and death sentence for the NYC terrorism trials. When questioned about whether that put the American system of justice in a better light than Gitmo, Obama, visibly irritated for him, walked it back and said “if” they were found guilt. But he didn’t say “if” the first time, he said, “when”. Given Holder’s comments today on the Hill, Obama’s original comment looks like a Freudian slip more than it does a slip of the tongue.

    Has Holder been telling his president the result he wants will be a slam dunk? The answer Obama-the-constitutional law-scholar should have given the reporter was, “No, that would not put our system of justice in a better light, and it’s not how we do things here or on my watch. The Queen of Hearts system of justice for Guantanamo detainees went out the door on January 20th.” He didn’t say that. Not even close.

    • skdadl says:

      Was that on Rachel? I found Turley on Countdown making that statement, but can’t find a Rachel.

      But to the point. See the title given to that YouTube: “Holder immune to Republican fear tactics.” I understand the political problem, but I think Holder sounds anything but immune to the assault of the far right. On the surface, his statement last week was all about 9/11, but that in itself suggests to me that it is defence against attacks from the far right that is shaping the rhetoric. If he’s not exactly placating the far right, he is still focused on reassuring everyone else that the far right is wrong. I think that’s a shame.

      • earlofhuntingdon says:

        Mea culpa. It was last night’s Countdown, early in the show. I must have been mesmerized at the Palin book parody that ended Rachel’s show. In a mock-you-drama, Palin’s book becomes animated (a fantasy right there), goes rogue in the studio, and takes out Rachel, a janitor, and escapes off a tall building with a single bound. The feds are hopeless at catching her.

        • masanf says:

          I can’t believe anyone actually is willing to admit they watch Countdown and Rachel Maddow. Of course, given how fucking pathetic their ratings are, you probably make up half their audience.

        • bobschacht says:

          Boy, did you come through the wrong door. This is Olbermann-Maddow country– at least it is in my case, and I’ll bet there are plenty of others who share my view. If you want company for your thoughts about Olbermann & Maddow, you’re in the wrong place.

          Bob in AZ

        • readerOfTeaLeaves says:

          ;-)))))

          That would be the Maddow who always makes a point of confirming with her guests that she has presented accurate information? Who — like Olbermann — takes time to research and set up good contexts for her reports? That Maddow?

          BTW: I hope that you saw Frank Schaeffer** on Maddow the other evening (although the segment is online at MSNBC, so can be watched 24/7). I thought that what Frank Schaeffer had to say was extremely important, and I think that Whitehouse is saying much the same thing, although applying it to a more specific, narrow topic (federal prosecutors).

          Schaeffer points to the fact that at some point, people feel ’empowered’ to do crazy things, and I agree with him. What Schaeffer and Whitehouse are saying is hugely important: ‘enough with the crazy, already’.

          ** “Crazy for God”, “Patience with God”

    • alan1tx says:

      You make a good point. And beyond that, Obama-the-constitutional law-scholar and president of the United States has pronounced guilt and punishment, how do you get an impartial jury after the smartest guy in the room has given his opinion?

      • Funnydiva2002 says:

        Or even after the last 8 years of “they’re all dangerous, dangerous terrahists” rhetoric?

        At least the pres realized he needed to walk it back?

        FWDiva

    • Funnydiva2002 says:

      Yes.
      I kept saying “Oh, duuuude, you tipped your hand” to my TeeVee Machine. And not in a happy way.

      But given how the Padilla trial went, I’m not holding out much hope of anything but a guilty verdict and death sentence. I wish I had more confidence in the potential jurors, but I don’t.

      I’m just glad I don’t live in NYC and won’t be in that jury pool.

      FunnyWheelieDiva

  5. JohnJ says:

    Kinda’ reminds me of Nixon and Charles Manson.

    I thought the Repug Party was just the working end of Faux Spews talk shows??? You mean they aren’t?

  7. Funnydiva2002 says:

    Thanks for this, Marcy.

    Small quibble (in the quotation): it’s “bellwether”. It’s a sheep thing, not a climate thing…

    FunnyWheelieDiva

  9. Cynthia Kouril says:

    “The constitution does not allow reasons of state to influence our judgment. God forbid it should! We must not regard political consequences, however formidable they might be; if rebellion was the certain consequence, we are bound to say, Justitia fiat, ruat coelum—Let justice be done, though the heavens fall.
    —Lord Mansfield, Chief Justice of England (Rex v. Wilkes, 1768) “

  10. foothillsmike says:

    When Nancy Pelosi stated that the CIA misled her there was a outrage at her for disrespecting the professionals in the CIA. Why is there no outrage at the rethugs for disrespecting federal prosecutors?

  11. tjbs says:

    Will there be a cell phone video of the death chamber leaked out per chance?

    If it’s live coverage will they run the 181st water boarding tape, where he confesses to setting up Kennedy, as like a preview ?

    • fatster says:

      Happy Birthday, klynn! It’s even sweeter knowing your son is showing signs of improving. Many good vibes are traveling to the klynn house today. Hope you can feel them.

  13. Jo Fish says:

    Why shouldn’t they behave that way, after all they had almost a decade of expecting to exert political influence over criminal prosecutions; the USAttorney9 are evidence of that… Domenici’s expectation of performance was evidence enough of that.

    Thanks to Preznit Malfeasance the political corruption of the DoJ is just another cog in the wheel of the devolution of the American Republic. What else is new?

  14. alank says:

    The current administration is able to benefit from the ostentation of the looney right to cover over the glaring fact that they are no different from the prior administration. There was no transition during the transition. It’s the same ilk in positions of power as before, just different faces.

  15. BoxTurtle says:

    Given the decisions on prosecution (or lack thereof) that Obama has already made, perhaps the talk shows could a better job.

    Boxturtle (I’m sure the bloggers here could make better decisions than the DOJ)

  16. NorskeFlamethrower says:

    AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

    Citizen emptywheel and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:

    Thank you for another timely and cogent report and analysis, you get an oakleaf cluster for your Norske Medal of Citizenship. Of course all the trials that appear in the federal, civilian courts will be show trials but important none the less. Frankly, the appearance of KSM in a civilian court in front of the folks he wronged will drive home the common criminality of the perpetrators and go a long way toward exposing once and for all that we are waging war against populations of countries for ciminal acts of people who in most cases are not citizens of those countries. Senator Lindsey Lohan Grahm stated that he/she was worried that we were in fact criminalizing the wars we’re fighting so righteously and he is correct. The simple act of denying these monsters the designation of soldier that would legitimize their original and our subsequent actions as acts of war, goes to the heart of the fascist assault on our institutions that it appears we have, for the most part, weathered. So let the show trials begin, after all if there is anything our sham of a justice system can accomplish it’s gettin’ someone convicted whether or not they are guilty and whether or not the venue of the proceedings or the charges are appropriate.

    KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, HANG THE BASTARD IF IT WILL GET OUR TROOPS HOME!!

    • croghan27 says:

      Methinks you would be all sorts of correct if the trials were held as a matter of course rather than the PR exercise they have become.

      Everyone in the world knows the these are (will be) Ptomptkin village displays – there to be seen, but nothing substantial. The orgy of back slapping now going on in the media is a poor attempt to justify what in essence is a long way from any kind of fare trial.

  17. georgewalton says:

    Have we not all heard, Holder and Obama all but guarentee both a conviction and an execution. Months before the actual trial begins. The genius of our criminal justice system I suppose.

    As for all the terrorists still down at Guantanamo…the men who have languished for years and years now without so much as a glimpse at a writ of habeas corpus…their day will come too.

    We will make it all up in collateral damage down the road.

  19. Leen says:

    Whitehouse gives me hope in this system

    “did not like the tone I was detecting”

    “prosecutors have to go to court in body armor, I have had prosecutors who have to go to their families and explain why a security system has to be put in their homes because of threats” A reality check

  20. klynn says:

    Hey thanks Petrocelli, bmaz :), Leen and all!

    It was a good day. Petrocelli, my son is doing a little better today. Thanks for your thoughts. The H1N1 hits hard.

    My kids did not qualify for the early shots offered by the health dept. This week, supplies arrived at the dr’s office for non-high risk youth.

    Hey bmaz, can I bump your birthday present to Saturday? (Although the boss might not like it!)

      • klynn says:

        Wolvereenies.

        We have those with baked beans here in Ohio! We call it Beanie-Wolvereenies.

        They are a staple at tailgates.

        (November 19, 2009: boss bans klynn from emptywheel.)

      • klynn says:

        I’ll do that! He missed a huge award ceremony too :( It was one of those “once in a life time academic-service awards.”

        Son-of-klynn brought the letter home announcing the ceremony and wrote, “Happy Birthday!” on the envelope and let me open it!

        What a sweet young man.

        So, a hug it is!

        Leen,

        Certain counties in Ohio were short on their supply and decided to not do shots at all the schools.

        Some local churches have purchased supplies and are doing health care clinics for little to no cost to help those unemployed or underemployed.

    • Leen says:

      “My kids did not qualify for the early shots offered by the health dept. This week, supplies arrived at the dr’s office for non-high risk youth.”

      So who qualifies as “high risk” What a bunch of bull. Why is it that the pharmaceutical companies can come out with a steady supply of Viagra and can not produce enough of this vaccine?

    • Mary says:

      How bipartisan of him. So is she filling the Propaganda Emeritus chair or the Botox Blonde chair?

      Happy b-day klynn and cybervibes for {{{{{son-of-klynn}}}}

  22. Mary says:

    OT – David Hamilton (bil of d johnsen) finally gets his vote for the 7th circuit.

    http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=111&session=1&vote=00349

    To be fair, there’s also a certain amount of politicizing of the process when the two top justice figure in the nation, President and AG, hit the big screens to guarantee convictions and executions. Especially when they are the same figures who dangled all those tantalizingly unspecific responses to torturers, child abusers and the rule of law.

  23. Mary says:

    Prior topic OT

    Isikoff/Newsweek, in a piece about Bybee setting up a legal defense fund (don’t Obama and Holder want to weigh in with a “we’re confident he won’t be prosecuted or convicted” to keep their roll going?) seem to indicate that the “career prosecutor” reviewing the OPR report is Margolis.

    http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/declassified/archive/2009/11/19/torture-memo-author-sets-up-defense-fund-to-fight-possible-impeachment.aspx

    Since then, the report has been redrafted and, after a further round of comments, is now being reviewed for final release by David Margolis, a veteran career prosecutor at the Justice Department.

    Not that Bybee has much to worry about. In addition to the fact that:

    the former Justice Department colleague of Bybee’s did say, “We’re confident that he’ll be vindicated.”

    current Justice Department officials, taking their cue from Obama and GITMO tactics recently revealed in a habeas proceeding, are all quoted as saying:

    “No one leaves here guilty.”
    I think that was probably /s, but there is a bet line in Vegas that gives it good odds for being factually on all fours. Go figure.

  24. masanf says:

    Amazing. Holder brought these people to trial in the US solely for political reasons, can’t defend his decision (see his absolute embarrassment at the hands of Lindsey Graham) and it is the Democrats accusing the Republicans of politicizing this? What a joke.

  25. Jim White says:

    Happy B-day klynn. Hope your son does well. My younger daughter is now fully recovered from her H1N1 bout.

    Speaking of prosecutorial decisions, I just put up a diary showing abject historical ignorance by Reuters and AP in their coverage of the US sending a representative today for the first time to the International Criminal Court.

  28. phred says:

    Happy Birthday klynn! And hope SOK gets well soon : )

    And Mary, fwiw, I think PigMissile is getting the Ignorance is Bliss chair (also known as the Ignorance is No Impediment to Punditry or Key Government Appointments chair ; )

    • fatster says:

      I just saw that. Why is she getting any Chair at all? This O-team is just full of bewildering surprises, huh?

        • fatster says:

          Thanks Peterr. But THAT “R”? Perhaps her usual cluelessnesss will pose no harm. I’ll take solace in that thought.

        • phred says:

          It is bewildering isn’t it? A country with more than 300 million people and Obama can’t seem to find talented (much less qualified) people to appoint? As Helen Thomas famously said, “doesn’t he know anyone”?

        • earlofhuntingdon says:

          Obama seems to keep trying to appease the authority figure who wasn’t there, doesn’t he? The GOP will not, cannot afford to cooperate with him, no matter how many of its shills he hires. In fact, not cooperating with him works out pretty well for them. Why change, only Obama and middle America pays the price.

          The more Obama attempts to appease and appear “post-partisan”, the more the GOP gains by being more partisan. That’s a vicious loop he’s smart enough to understand. That he doesn’t or does, but still won’t change his ways, means he’s as conservative as they are or that he has a hole as big as Shrub’s, just in another place. And we’ll still pay the price.

  29. fatster says:

    For those still interested in the Spanish courts and CIA.

    Will Montaner and Posada Confess Their Complicity? 
    • Documents confirm that the CIA knew that the Jesuit priest Ellacuría was going to be killed.

    USA will never give him up, though. Never.

  31. gamd521 says:

    I feel that to believe in the American justice system in the exhalted terms many attribute to it is little more than jingoism.

    Very much akin to the claim that we have the best health care system in the world and that the country for all its faults is the last beacon of hope for the world, that the Senate is the greatest deliberative body in the world and that this is the greatest democracy (you guessed it) in the world, that we in America are a peace loving people and lastly with a straight face that we are a nation of laws and not men. Oh and we are the richest country and most productive people in the world.

    Let’s dispense with that please, it is maddening to hear so much of this. The truth is that the US is not any of the above. It is a fair to middling country who at present on balance is hard to know if is more a force for peace or more a force for destabilization. And has always been.

    As to the justice system the US did not invent the notion of Justice nor does it promote it when it most counts. Never mind the focus on its structure focus more on what its results are. That Corporations are persons, that corporations have a fiduciary responsibility only to maximize shareholders returns, that usury is permitted, that forms of protest are proscribed, that election laws are to obeyed when convenient (Gore v Bush), that we may opt out of treaties at a whim, and on.

    The 9/11 suspects haven’t a snowball’s chance in hell of getting a fair trial and that has already been stipulated by the prosecuter and the President with nary a squeak from anyone of note. The outcome is preordained. The public simply won’t allow an unqulified verdict of death by hanging. To what end are there laws in the books, skewed as they are, when they are cast aside when they are inconvenient.

    Why for instance with all the praises of the rule of law are not Bush and Cheney on trial for what some estimates claim are hundreds of infractions of the law.

    We really can’t resist this impulse to self promotion. It is believed with no basis that the world will step back and take notice of our willingness to justly treat terroist suspects. Well gues what what they will see is that we are perfectly willing to hang these people for the death of 3,000 innocents we are also perfectly willing to let people that without provocation killed upwards of 1,000,000. Let us not kid ourselves people around the world are not stupid.

    Lets please refrain from hyperbole when it comes to the justice system or anything else.

  33. oldoilfieldhand says:

    Above for masanf # 52! Apparently the linky thing doesn’t wrk too well in the Southern Hemisphere

Comments are closed.