The CIA’s Fifth Lie?

As I suggested in comments the other day, I suspect that the fifth lie that HPSCI referred to the other day is one fired CIA officer Mary McCarthy reported–when, at an HPSCI hearing in February 2005, under questioning from Jane Harman, someone from the CIA lied about detainee treatment.

While we don’t know what the substance of Harman’s questions were, this lie was reported in a 2006 WaPo story.

In addition to CIA misrepresentations at the session last summer, [Mary] McCarthy told the friends, a senior agency official failed to provide a full account of the CIA’s detainee-treatment policy at a closed hearing of the House intelligence committee in February 2005, under questioning by Rep. Jane Harman (Calif.), the senior Democrat.

Jan Schakowsky–who is in charge of HPSCI’s investigation–spoke at a reception I attended tonight. While I didn’t ask her whether this lie was the fifth lie the committee referred to, I did ask her whether this lie was in the scope of her subcommittee’s investigation.

She responded that detainee treatment was one of the things the committee was investigating (as is clear from its reference to the lie to Pelosi in 2002), though did not confirm or deny whether that 2005 lie was the fifth referred to the other day.

Which I guess tells us the February 2005 is one possibility among many other lies CIA may have told.

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9 replies
  1. JasonLeopold says:

    FWIW, back in July I spoke to some people on the committee about some of the things they intended to investigate and one of the things they said was McCarthy’s claims about this briefing. I reported it here.

    These aides added that the probe will also look into claims made by former CIA official Mary O. McCarthy, who accused senior agency officials of lying to members of Congress during an intelligence briefing in 2005 when they said the agency did not violate treaties that bar, cruel, inhumane or degrading treatment of detainees during interrogations, according to a May 14, 2006, front-page story in The Washington Post.

    Unfortunately, I could not get these folks to discuss on the record what they intended to investigate. But they definitely were aware of McCarthy and that was something they planned to look into.

  2. radiofreewill says:

    EW – I think you are right-on!

    Also, Jason, it’s great seeing your work, as well – keep it up!

    There’s just No Way – with all the Liability involved – that Congress is going to openly, publicly discuss the Bush Administration’s Lies about the Convention Against Torture – because any discussion is Certain to reveal a Policy, and infrastructure, of State-Sponsored Systematic Human Rights Violations – more than worthy of War Crimes Trials.

    See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil…in Public…that’s Our Congress.

  3. radiofreewill says:

    I still don’t understand why Our Military didn’t Charge Bush with ‘Unlawful Command Influence’ under the UCMJ – when Bush Ordered Torture…

  4. freepatriot says:

    does anybody else get the idea that this blog is kinda like a Scoobie Doo episode ???

    they woulda got away with it except for those darn meddling kids …

    cept that the monsters are real

    I’m not trying to be flip, or disrespectful

    I jes git the idea that I’ve seen this show before, thas all …

    I think the repuglitards resemble a monty python film, if that helps

    hat tip to the commentary in this TPM thread for the link: teabagger FAIL

    sorry to go all off-topic an navel gazy on ya, but I had to say it

    an GO RED TEAM too

    (wink)

  5. x174 says:

    i like this line of questioning.

    what is the fifth lie that the CIA told Congress?

    the reason that i like it is b/c one could dredge up dozens of “CIA lies” in search of the fifth lie.

    come on troops! let’s find that fifth lie!

  6. Jeff Kaye says:

    For an interesting example of how the CIA talks to Congress, embedded in a historical document, read this letter from Stansfield Turner, then CIA Director, to Sen. Inouye, then chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee. This was 1977, but since the letter concerns revelations of secret programs (in this case MKULTRA) made to a top Senator on the Intel Committee, I think it’s worth reading. (It’s PDF and not too long) My favorite quote from the letter, and worth pondering:

    This lack of available details, moreover, was probably not wholly attributable to the destruction of MKULTRA files in 1973 [by order of the CIA director]; the 1963 report by the Inspector General on MKULTRA notes on page 14: “Present practice is to maintain no records of the planning and approval of test programs.”

    While I would be surprised for this to come out now, I (of course) would tag #5 as the secret program of medical experimentation upon the detainees/prisoners. I may not have convinced most of you regarding the reality of the latter. I do not begrudge anyone such dubiety over such serious charges, but I do have more info on it, and only a heavy workload and illness has prevented me from working it up into a serviceable article. I do believe that more on this will come out from other sources, as well, in days to come. In any case, given the fact that the CIA will not provide me with documentary evidence, the making of an inferential case takes some time and care.

    In the meantime, for those who have followed my stories highlighting the research of Charles A. Morgan, III, it’s interesting to see that the brief Wikipedia bio of him has undergone a bit of editing by Dr. Morgan lately, who now claims that the American Psychological Association falsely labeled him as a Behavioral Analyst for the CIA at a conference back in 2004. He has erased all evidence of his spook background from his bio. Of course, he says nothing about his own stated connection with the CIA’s ITIC. And then, I have a document from a preliminary draft of the Intelligence Science Board’s “Educing Information” which identifies his institutional affiliation as CIA.

    Dr. Morgan’s CIA connections are crucial, as his research, which claims to only be about helping out our poor PTSD soldiers, is really about, or mostly about something else. What might that be? Well, until I write it all out, any interested reader can click here (PDF) and consider the uses of his research.

    To ascertain individual differences in stress responses, we will investigate the effects of stressful military training on physiological, and cognitive functioning of armed forces members. Noninvasive saliva sampling will be used to assess hormonal stress levels. Additionally we developed novel telemetric technology for untethered measurements of heart rate activity. We will compare these physiological measures with training performance, cognitive performance and measures of psychological stress. A 6-month no cost extension has been filed. Due to Institutional Review Board delays no human subjects data are available for this annual report….

    This research will provide a systematic characterization of psychobiological responses to highly stressful operations and will provide information that may be extended to the selection and training needs of the DOD…. It is hoped that the data obtained in this project will extend our previous findings, provide additional clues to the factors contributing to excellence in military performance, and finally, provide evidence for a noninvasive, objective assessment of operational performance.

    It is my contention that research of this type, if not particularly this research project, was utilized upon detainees, to provide data for their new “noninvasive” biotech devices, and/or the construction of their techno-future “warrior of the 21st century”. If this were the only such study, perhaps one could not make much of it. But there are others (which I’ll document in article form), and all utilize SERE “volunteers” because of how the SERE program mimics torture and can produce severe stress in subjects. It’s only a small (though morally huge) step from this to doing experimentation upon real torture victims. (And OLC missed all this? And CIA forgot to “tell” them?)

    In any case, Looking for Number Five, is a (morbidly) fun game, as it can almost go on forever.

    • bobschacht says:

      In the meantime, for those who have followed my stories highlighting the research of Charles A. Morgan, III, it’s interesting to see that the brief Wikipedia bio of him has undergone a bit of editing by Dr. Morgan lately, who now claims that the American Psychological Association falsely labeled him as a Behavioral Analyst for the CIA at a conference back in 2004. He has erased all evidence of his spook background from his bio. Of course, he says nothing about his own stated connection with the CIA’s ITIC. And then, I have a document from a preliminary draft of the Intelligence Science Board’s “Educing Information” which identifies his institutional affiliation as CIA.

      Jeff, the Wikipedia has a decent process for dealing with these disputes, and with your knowledge, you should click on the “Discussion” tab and protest the deletions, and also assert any corrections that need to be made. You’ll have to provide documentation, of course, but I know you can do that. And you’ll have to sign your comments on the discussion page, but that is also as it should be.

      Bob in AZ

      • Jeff Kaye says:

        Thanks, Bob. I was sort of aware that there was a process for Wikipedia disputes, and I may take this up, as you suggest. I’ll look into what’s involved.

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