McCain Owes Pelosi an Apology
Back in May, when Nancy Pelosi was pointing out, correctly, that she had not been briefed that the CIA was already in the torture business, John McCain joined the rest of his party in suggesting that Pelosi could have prevented the torture. He suggested that his efforts–he focuses on 2005, ignoring that he basically capitulated on a Nuremberg Defense in the Detainee Treatment Act–were successful in preventing torture.
"Let me just tell you — I was briefed on it — and I vehemently objected to it. We did the Detainee Treatment Act, which prohibited cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment. So we felt, I certainly felt, I could act on it."
He dismissed her claim she was barred from acting on what she learned in the briefings with a shrug.
"I’m sure she has her argument and we’ll see if the American people agree."
Today it’s McCain’s turn to insist he did all he could to prevent torture. In the Time article I cited earlier, McCain is left to insist, futilely, that he complained specifically about the proposed use of sleep deprivation.
An aide to McCain said that in meetings with Hayden and others, McCain raised the story of Orson Swindle, a friend of McCain’s who suffered forced sleep deprivation through stress positions as a captive of the North Vietnamese.
Of course, we now know that between the CIA and Steven Bradbury, the torture apologists were actually using McCain’s name in support of the use of sleep deprivation. Presumably, then, those two detainees with whom sleep deprivation was used in August 2007 and October 2007 were abused in spite of McCain’s complaints.
Neither of these politicians were heroes in their opposition to torture. But the public record makes it clear that Pelosi measured the Bushies much better than McCain: even opposition like that McCain voiced was turned into support for abuse.
And its time both the Democrats and the Republicans opposing torture acknowledged that fact, because it’s a key step to holding those responsible for torture accountable.
The more concrete and exact the documenting of the torture, the more diligent and ingenious the denials. What’s the point of it all? Everyone knows we torture, and lots of folks really believe it’s the way to behave–that we ought to torture more people, more of the time, with more and more pain for the persons tortured.
Though the people who honestly believe this have trouble declaring that fact, openly and honestly, this inhibition has not always, historically speaking, been the case: there are lots of statements by some major historical figures–not just the Marquis de Sade, but Calvin and his colleagues–who celebrated torture as the work of the Lord. So what happened? Why this awkwardness, this timidity, this bad faith?
Simplifying things a bit, we could say that Freud is the party responsible, because he insisted, always, that torture is a form of sexual pleasure: as such, and in order to find expression, it has to overcome all our inhibitions against sexual pleasure per se. This is not good news for the sanctimonious: their every righteous act of torture is nothing more than the exercise of a guilty pleasure. Not a thing to be proud of.
I find myself coming back, again and again, to Cheney shooting his hunting partner. It wasn’t an accident; it was, like most of what Cheney does, the impulsive taking of pleasure at another person’s expense. The man is small. Very small. Very, very small. Exemplary in his smallness. Small, like the torture apologists discussed in this post. ( Do they deserve the attention we give them? If so, only insofar as we always have our own work to do on our own guilty pleasures.)
mc cain’t .. couldn’t and didn’t btw ..
United in their abhorrent destructivism, Republicans are also irrelevant through their obstructionism.
Democrats of every stripe should ignore them. Democrats should lead, legislate and enforce the laws. Prosecute the previous Republican malefactors as the heinous criminals that they are. Do not talk to them: they lie, cheat, steal, & murder.
They are evil personified. They deserve only to be hung.
I must say that I’m surprised to see a progressive calling for the death penalty. I think this deserves — nay, mandates — elaboration on your part.
They may very well need to be hung or even drawn and quartered but I refuse to answer violence with more state MURDER which is what this issue is about.
Now give them a full and fair trial just like Nuremburg where 20 or so sat in the dock to be judged at once.
If they are found guilty they must be striped of their worldly possessions and their citizenship which they won’t need in Abu Ghraib, Iraq where they can sleep among the tortured ghosts,life without the possibility of release ever. This cannot be cured with violence and must not stand as an American standard for the world to emulate.
And it appears the Feinstein is no longer a member of the party that elected her. Her explanations are becoming, well, fanciful?
Wonder if McCain knew they were using his name in support at the time? Given that he was planning a presidential campaign and he’d need Neocon money, it’s sure possible he was aware of it.
Boxturtle (Wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more!)
EW, I read in our morning paper the obit for David Addington’s mother.
I suppose it would be bad form to show up at the rosary or funeral wearing buttons with pictures of tortured/dead people?
Yes it would.
I hope Pelosi’s not holding her breath waiting for an apology from bmaz’s senator. It ain’t gonna happen.
No, it won’t. But I thought I’d try pout-rage–it works so well for the Republicans.
NOt necessarily speaking of pout-rage, but – your *friend* Mr. Finder said in his op ed that Colin Powell signed off on waterboarding. I know that when the ABC story came out about “the Principals” he was, of course, in the list as one of the Principals, but as later stories and circulation information on memos came out, it looked like Rice was limiting some meetings and memos to exclude State and Powell (and Taft) and he has seemed to imply that he wasn’t a party to waterboarding and other torture approvals. In addition, his pal Armitage, as then #2 at State, has said that he didn’t know about waterboarding and that no one at state knew about mistreatment of prisoners until the Abu Ghraib story broke
http://www.foxnews.com/politic…..g-torture/
(still wondering why Bradbury couldn’t gauge his ’shock the conscious’ standard by the shocked national conscious when the photos were relased, but whatever)
So anyway – any chance you or Ackerman or someone can get a response from Powell as to whether or not Finder is correct?
Finder also says that there were administrative proceedings, complete with torture confessions (pretty vague on that) and I have to wonder if DiFi and McCain were briefed on any of that. In large part, though, I really like McCain and DiFi and the rest to answer a few very simple questions.
A. Were you briefed on deaths resulting from what most would call torture, but we can call EITs if you prefer, and if so, when?
B. Were you briefed on the role in the 9/11 bombings played by those who were killed in custody and if so, when?
C. Were you briefed on the use of “enhanced” techniques, including techniques that were lethal, being used on people who were not members of al-Qaeda and did not play a role in the 9/11 bombings and if so, when?
Just those for starters. Can’t be much “classified” to any of that.
Btw, not to excuse them, but I would bet money they were not briefed on those things. Though I do think that’s partly what DiFI is investigating at SSCI right now.
I think maybe they weren’t briefed on those things either, which is why I would like the questions asked and answers nailed down. The CIA says that it briefed the gang of 4 about freezing to death the young guy in Afghanistan. There has been public reference to the CIA roles in the death of the “iceman” and also in directing abuse of the Iraqi General woul was ultimately suffocated by the military. The IGs report indicates a couple of other deaths.
So I would like to start having it pinned down in the record that people were or were not told of CIA roles in deaths. If they weren’t told, or weren’t told until recently – that’s a flat out slap at all the arguments being made – that people were being killed by questioning and no one told Congress, or didn’t tell Congress until years later, all the while telling Congress the methods were humane – that kind of thing needs to be solidified.
And if they admit they were told of those deaths (whether long ago or understandably recently) – then I think we need to have them ante up that those killed were not 9/11 plotters and may not have even been al-Qaeda.
If we don’t start getting control like that of the narrative now, it’s all over imo. We need to give torture a face other than KSMs, we need to move the ball from talking about insult slaps to talking about dead bodies, we need to move the ball from ticking time bombs to guys who knew nothing about al-Qaeda. All torture is horrible, but that doesn’t mean we win the case in the public, with FOX and CNN and ABC all propagandizing for torture, by appealing to the ideals.
We need to be trying to move the conversation to things they aren’t comfortable with – not Cheney talking about torture getting information, but talking about the tortured to death (who obviously aren’t offering up information from their deathbeds). NOw that the IG report is out (even though only in part) and there are wide reports of the deaths in custody, I think that the prohibition of “classification” is pretty much drying up on some of this.
I guess if, when asked those simple questions, they still claim “it’s classified” the follow up would be
If you were advised of the interrogation killing by the CIA of a human who was not a 9/11 plotter, and were told it was classified, would you feel you had a duty to refuse to speak up about that killing? Even if it were a child or an American?
I think answering those kinds of questions shouldn’t be too hard for the chair of the Senate Intel Committee or for anyone on the committee. The nation is entitled to know whether classification is a conduit for covering up killing someone who is helpless, or for covering up human experimentation.
What Mary said.
I love the optimism out there that Cheney is seeing visions of his conviction for his crimes, but I’m not there yet. Too many Americans have rationalized the torture and at the same time refused to open their eyes to the ugly details that would jerk them out of their Jack Bauer fantasy world. It’s going to take a lot more effort to get enough Americans to open their eyes and see the truth. And given the complicity of the MSM, as witnessed over the weekend in WaPo and NYT, it must be progressives and bloggers that seize the narrative if justice is to be done.
EW, I’m continually impressed and in awe of your prolific contributions.
I concur with Marcy that we need to move the conversation to death by torture of people who were NOT 9/11 or al-Qaeda.
Who is driving and supporting the KSM narrative? Talk Radio hosts.
For them torture is
1) Funny
2) Has sexual overtones
3) Not serious because “no permanent bodily harm’ happened
Or
1) Is about war and bad things happen in war
2) It works, Cheney says so.
Listen to these clips from last week that encapsulate these views.
It’s from KSFO in San Francisco, Brian Sussman and “Officer Vic”.
(Comparing waterboarding to gargling (audio link) includes sexual overtones of forced nudity
Comparing threats of death by power drills to making furniture. (audio link)
My newest poster 3′ X 4′ states:
The Nazis tortured (framing)
Torture is wrong
Child rape is wrong
Cutting a penis with a scalpel is wrong ( we did this sexual act)
Torture is Treason
Generally very offensive so I was in front of my congressman’s office last Tuesday night and will be back.
Unless it’s in their face the public supports a “24″ episode rather than we questioned innocent fellow human beings to death and there was a need for tracheotomy kits in the interrogation room. Is this standard issue item in our police stations across America?
If not why the hell didn’t the higher ups in the chain of command raise a red flag ,with their hair on fire and their testicles being crushed type of reaction when tracheotomy kits were requested.
People said in the Cheney interview thread that Cheney is scared. I want to say that he is not scared of Holder; he is afraid that someone on his side is going to flip.
And it is thanks to EW’s and others’ relentless grasp that that is exactly what is going to happen.
US identifies Syrian prisoner sent to Portugal
(AP) – 2 hours ago
SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico —” A Guantanamo inmate who said the prison’s harsh conditions drove him to attempt suicide has been sent to Portugal, the U.S. said in court documents.
“Mohammed Khan Tumani, 26, was one of two Syrian prisoners at Guantanamo transferred to “the control of the government of Portugal,” U.S. officials said in documents filed Sunday in Washington. The other was Moammar Badawi Dokhan.”
More.
She just can’t catch a break these days.
Liz Cheney can’t handle the truth
During her remarkable summer media blitzkrieg, a stunning grasp of made-up facts
By Vincent Rossmeier
Aug. 31, 2009 |” Liz Cheney, the easily exasperated eldest daughter of former Vice President Dick Cheney, has become a one-woman TV juggernaut in 2009, racking up more airtime than a cloud as she defends her daddy’s administration records.
“And boy, is she wrong.”
More
O/T for the car people
Buffett to up stake in Chinese electric carmaker
Shares rise 8% after electric car and battery maker’s announcement about Berkshire billionaire.
August 31, 2009: 6:14 AM ET
HONG KONG Aug 31 (Reuters) — “U.S. billionaire Warren Buffett intends to raise his stake in Chinese electric car and battery maker BYD Co. Ltd, BYD’s chairman said on Monday, sending shares in his company up 8%.”
More
We might also not that McCain is another one of the many in Washington that goes around crowing about the godliness of the Army Field Manual, either oblivious to, or in spite of, (who knows with McCain, he is both stupid and dishonest) the fact that the AFM still allows through sleep deprivation and, more importantly, serial combination of sleep deprivation periods with other torture modalities.
does mccain stand alone on the republican side of the ailed?
are there other republicans who will go on record telling us they did not and do not agree with the policies that condoned these crimes?
Trust me, McCain will say the diametric opposite the second he feels it in his personal interest to do so. Don’t be suckered by a statement at one moment of time; he will turn his back on it in a flash.
And you don’t think that Democrats — for example, let’s just pull a name out of thin air: Teddy Kennedy — do the exact same thing?
Seriously?
Oh lookee, Mr. Mistake By The Lake has wandered in. What joy.
Ron Reagan on air america just made an ironic observation. The pro-torturites are not at all interested in someone committing sadistic and felonious assaults on a fellow human being, but VERY INTERESTED in controlling and judging those engaging in consensual sex.
“Ethical freakshow of a universe” as Rachel Maddow says.
McCain and Pelosi belong to a certain, privileged class.
A class to which you and I don’t belong.
Unless we can touch them politically, they will fuck us gladly.
McCain Owes Pelosi an Apology
The detailed text of his apology is actually a straight cut & paste from the contents of this diary.
It seems to me that this matter in the MSM even on FOX is a bit more red hot than we who noticed the limited scope of the Holder investigation last week might have realized. I think it is significant that Chris Wallace asked Cheney whether policy makers and the lawyers who gave their imprimatur to torture would be targeted by Holder. Despite how Cheney answered it certainly invites a constructive dialogue.
I know Cheney likes to get out in front of these narratives on his fourth branch power like he attempted to do by touting his insta-declassification authority in the interview about his successes bagging Texas lawyers. But at some point this kind of tyrannical bravado just isn’t going to float especially when mixed with the misrepresentations that W kept the country safe for 8 years and that EIT yielded actionable intelligence. Will the rest of the country notice that Dick and Liz Cheney seem to be the only high profile members of the former administration being ponied out to defend torture? Rove’s credibility is already shot not having made it through the second term. And by the way Liz Cheney was hard pressed to admit the torture went beyond just flashing a drill around which it obviously did. It makes it a bit too obvious where the root of the depravity lies.
One level is the felony and war crime of torture.
But we tortured about 85% INNOCENT people. Why is this not hard-balled during a Cheney interview? Fox is incapable of thinking that through. Has it ever made the media conversation ANYWHERE? Is it addressed at all?????
Has anyone official, Dem or Repub, EVER expressed regret, official regret, over that? They (Bushco) dropped one innocent guy tortured for over 6 months in the middle of the night in Albania after keeping him caged for 3 additional months after there was solid evidence he was innocent and it was mistaken identity and Tenet and Rice gave permission to release him but then incredible feet-dragging over the the best way to do it — the solution eventually was to DUMP HIM in the dark of night and he was sure it was a setup to kill him and then US arm twisted Germany (his country) not to kick up any outrage, our political arm twisting re intelligence or whatever. He was picked up by the Albanians for being a terrorist because of his disheveled appearance to add tragic irony to his story. His wife thought he had left her and moved the family back to Lebanon. If you have time, this guy’s nightmare is quite telling on how AWESOMELY CALLOUS AND SOCIOPATHIC Bushco behaved. And Obamaco…. looking for more humanity on this horror. The primary Obama empathy is going to the CIA on this????
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_El-Masri
Correction, he was held about two not three months, April 2004 to May 28, 2004, after being officially declared innocent. He hunger struck March 2004.
Agreed. It would be a good time for him to get back on the air in the U.S. so the thugs have to explain it all over again to the American people. Already the U.S. judicial system has sullied our name by refusing to hear his case…on ‘national security grounds’ was it?
Did McCain even understand what he was voting for, when he voted to authorize torture by other names? If he didn’t, then he’s mentally incompetent to be in congress. If he did, then he’s lying through his bleached and polished teeth.
NEVER underestimate the ability of McCain to lie through his teeth.