Societe Nationale Industrielle Aerospatiale, Or the Geneva Convention

I’m being a bit silly now–checking my email before I go to bed (the recently successful mr. ew is watching Nimoy on Next Generation so I can sneak away). And I’m not a lawyer. But I’ve got a suspicion that Steven Bradbury invoked the "Societe la la la" to suggest the Geneva Convention was meant to be read even more literally than its words.

That’s my initial take, anyway, from reading his August 31, 2006 Letter to John Rizzo about detainee treatment.

Here’s one example:

More specifically, the prohibition in subparagraph (a) on "violence to life an person" suggests that not all physical contact with detainee is banned; the word "violence" connotes "an exertion of physical force so as to injure or abuse."

In case you’re wondering, Steven Bradbury, who wrote this, is currently a Partner at Dechert, Scooter Libby’s old firm.  The phone number there is (202) 261-3300.

The ACLU got several more late Bush Administration documents in today’s document dump:

August 31, 2006 Memorandum to Rizzo from OLC concerning Application of Detainee Treatment Act to Conditions of Confinement

2007 OLC opinion on Interrogation Techniques

August 23, 2007 Letter from OLC to CIA

November 6, 2007 Letter from OLC to CIA

November 7, 2007 Letter from OLC to CIA

June 11, 2009 Memorandum for the Attorney General written by David Barron

(All but the last of which–if you’re on hold with Dechert–were written by Steven Bradbury.) I’ll be reading all these tomorrow. But in the meantime–if you need a hobby–here they are.

image_print
41 replies
  1. perris says:

    here’s the way we need to frame the discussion on this investigation, since some will claim those following orders should not be investigated

    “we are investigating those who deliberately DISOBEYED orders putting our this country and our soldiers at far greater risk”

    things like throwing their own crap back in their face

  2. OldFatGuy says:

    Huh, seems to me Mr. Steven G. Bradbury is the one that Holder should’ve announced a special prosecutor to investigate.

    I still can’t believe this is America.

    And watching TV today (and I’ll bet in the upcoming days and weeks too) the MSM is trying to make the “other side” of the argument one of whether or not these techniques were effective.

    BULLSHIT.

    It in no way matters whether intelligence was or wasn’t obtained with these techniques. IT DOESN’T MATTER, THAT’S NOT THE ISSUE.

    We don’t live in (or at least I thought we didn’t live in) a “the ends justify the means” country. We were supposed to be a country based on the rule of law.

    So, the “debate” should strictly be about whether or not these techniques violated the law, NOT whether or not they were effective. But I’d bet my last dollar whether or not they were effective will become the big debate.

  3. Hmmm says:

    Can that quote paragraph be read as Bradbury trying to create a carve-out for mental damage that doesn’t leave longterm physical damage? We have several instances of a detainee’s body being left more or less intact, but its inhabitant more or less erased.

  4. SparklestheIguana says:

    If Bradbury ever gets the heave-ho, I’m sure the New York Times, AEI, and Hudson Institute (Libby’s wingnut welfare) would be extremely interested. And if the NYT can’t stand him anymore, WaPo is always standing ready to snarf up its vomitus.

    There really is no downside!

  5. MadDog says:

    Just my guess here, but if folks were wondering what is contained in all the redacted pages from page 46 to 68 of the CIA OIG Special Report (ACLU’s copy of 158 page PDF), I was looking at the table of contents on pages i and ii and it seems to give us a clue.

    On page i (PDF page 2), a section begins with this:

    DETENTION AND INTERROGATION OPERATIONS AT [redacted]

    It is then followed by a couple of redacted subsections and then this subsection:

    Videotapes of Interrogations………………36

    First of all, I think the location that is redacted is the name of the black site in Thailand.

    Secondly, the redacted table of contents entries for pages 46 through 68 look remarkably similar to the section and subsection headings in the table of contents for pages 33 through 44.

    In fact, where the redactions finally stop in the table of contents for that second section is the identical subsection heading found in the Thailand subsection heading.

    Here’s the one for the “Thailand” subsection:

    Specific Unauthorized or Undocumented Techniques………..41

    That second section that is mostly redacted has this identical subsection head and it is this:

    Specific Unauthorized or Undocumented Techniques………..69

    What I’m getting to here is that the mostly redacted pages from page 46 to 68 (as well as the table of contents headings for them), are documenting another black site where the CIA did their torture.

    My guess is that it is the Poland black site.

    One final juicy bit.

    Note this entry on page i:

    Videotapes of Interrogations…………36

    A similarly sized subsection heading is redacted in the table of contents on page ii for that second section (Poland?).

    I’m guessing there were videotapes of interrogations at that site too!

    • MadDog says:

      And you ask, why is it important that the Obama Administration redacted everything about the black site in Poland?

      Because Poland is different!

      Thailand is some funny country far away and who cares what they think.

      Poland however, is part of the fookin’ European Union!

      And the EU has this funny little ethical, moral, and legal thing about fookin’ torture!

      And as James Pavitt, former head of the CIA’s Directorate of Operations said:

      “Poland is the 51st state,” one former CIA official recalls James Pavitt, then director of the agency’s clandestine service, declaring. “Americans have no idea.”

      The Obama Administration decided to redact everything about Poland in this report, because they knew full well that it would produce a firestorm in the EU.

      Not to mention all the arrest warrants that would be demanded by Europeans for any and all Bush/Cheney regime torturers.

      The Europeans know full well that Poland hosted a CIA black site for torture. But if they aren’t publicly reminded of this in an official CIA report, then the Obama Administration figures the Europeans will act just like Americans and forget all about it.

      • fatster says:

        Whoa! Appointment of Victor Asche as Ambassador to Poland and the later revelations about Poland and black sites, is fascinating. And how is Poland “the 51st state”? I thought that was Israel. How many do we have?

        • PJBurke says:

          The 51st U.S. State is Paranoia… occupied by Birthers, Deathers, Palin-tologists & other assorted reich-wing wackos. The rest will have to vie for the #52 slot and upwards.

      • Mary says:

        Also, Poland has an active investigation going.

        A late April, 2009 article in Der Spiegel

        For more than a year now, Warsaw public prosecutor Robert Majewski has been investigating former Polish Prime Minister Leszek Miller’s government on allegations of abuse of office. At issue is whether sovereignty over Polish territory was relinquished, and whether former Polish President Aleksander Kwasniewski and his left-leaning Social Democratic government gave the CIA free reign over sections of the Stare Kiejkuty military base for the agency’s extraterritorial torture interrogations.

        Majewski has questioned a large number of witnesses who worked in the former government, and this year his team even plans to fly to Guantanamo. “No European country is so sincerely and vigorously investigating former members of the government as is currently the case in Poland,” says Wolfgang Kaleck from the European Center for Constitutional and Human Rights in Berlin, which supports the investigations.

        There was reportedly a document issued by the intelligence agency that mentioned both the 20 Polish agents and the transfer of the military base to the Americans. Two members of a parliamentary investigative committee in Warsaw had an opportunity to view this document in late 2005, but it has since disappeared.

        The journalists have discovered flight record books from Szymany that had been declared lost,

        Obamaco is not going to put out the information that makes the prima facie case against the Polish officials in that ongoing investigation because:

        a. No one is above the law, or
        b. I am Obama, anyone I say is above the law is above the law.

        More disappearing evidence – has a lit hold NEVER gone out?

        In any event, the US still has that desire to put a missile defense system in Poland and the Czek Rep.
        http://archives.chicagotribune…..land_aug21

    • tryggth says:

      Bybee, 1/22/2002 (end of opinion):

      “We should make clear that in reaching a decision to suspend our treaty obligations or to construe Geneva III to conclude that members of the Taliban militia are not POWs, the President need not make any specific finding. He need only authorize or approve policies that would be consistent with the understanding that a1 Qaeda and Taliban prisoners are not POWs under Geneva III.

      Please let us know if we can provide further assistance [wink omitted]”

  6. MadDog says:

    From the ACLU’s page on “Department of Justice Office of Legal Counsel Letters and Memos to CIA Regarding Detention and Interrogation Policies – Documents Responsive to 2004 Torture FOIA”:

    OLC Vaughn Index #72 – August 5, 2004 Letter from CIA to OLC discussing guidelines for a certain technique (2 page PDF):

    …c. A waterboard “session” is the period of time in which a subject is strapped to the waterboard before being removed. It may involve multiple applications of water. You were informed yesterday that our Office Of Medical Services had established a 20-minute time limit for waterboard sessions. That was in error. OMS has not established any time limit for a waterboard session…

    (My Bold)

    Diamonds Waterboards are forever!

  7. melior says:

    Re threats of execution, Bradbury actually tries to cite this as a credible supporting rationale: ”to constitute a threat, the test is not whether the victim feared for his life or believed he was in danger, but whether he was actually in danger” (July 20, 2007 memo, footnote 21)

    Only to then assume too much: ”actionable non-verbal threats occur when the defendant presents a weapon in such a condition or manner as to indicate that it may immediately be made ready for use” (Ibid)

    Ooopsie.

  8. WordBloom says:

    America, We Do Not Torture!*

    *We do however subcontract and outsource through the proper channels all activities which are incongruous with our stated ethical guidelines regarding the humane treatment of detainees in which information may or may not be obtained; that not really being the point– rather: we got a score to settle.
    Or as Dick said “er, uhg, grrr, well sometimes we have to go to the dark side.”

  9. melior says:

    Also notable (along with threat of execution) as one of the unredacted Unapproved Techniques documented by IG that was specifically called out by Bradbury as clearly proscribed, by even his narrowest ’reasonable’ reading of ’humane treatment’:

    ”humane treatment under Common Article 3 is reasonably read to require that detainees in the CIA program be provided with the basic necessities of life — food and water*, shelter from the elements, protection from extremes of heat and cold, necessary clothing, and essential medical care, absent emergency circumstances beyond the control of the US.” (7/20/2007 memo, p. 70)

    *not oxygen though!

  10. MrWhy says:

    Why would the name of the Associate General Counsel to the CIA (23 Aug 2007) be worthy of redaction? Surely that is public domain information? And would it be John L. McPherson?

  11. prostratedragon says:

    I couldn’t get past the blast from the Hamdan v. Rumsfeld past that what’s-his-name opens the Aug. 31 memo with before the rubber spatula stupidity with which this gang of devils insists on construing language made me get silly —and I don’t mean a good kind of silly.

    The slapdown from the Hamdan ruling is what WHN is trying to recover from in the memo, and reassure Rizzo that everything is A-OK in despite. Unfortunately, the Supreme Court did not rule as it did in that case simply because the USG was making the argument of an asshole. Had it done so, maybe at least WHN would have been forced into silence and the world would have been a slightly better place just from that.

    Imagine these opening lines being read in a kind of childish singsong:

    You have asked for our opinion whether the conditions of confinement used by the [CIA] in covert overseas facilities that it operates as part of its authorized program to capture and detain individuals who pose serious threats to the United States or who are planning terrorist attacks are consistent with common article 3 of the 1949 Geneva conventions. On Friday June 30, 2006 I advised you orally that the conditions of confinement described herein are permitted by common article 3. This letter memorializes and elaborates upon that advice.

    Common Article 3, which appears in all four of the Geneva Conventions of 1949, applies in the “case of armed conflict not of an international character occuring in the territory of one of the High Contracting Parties.” [Here’s a ref for fdlers; scroll down a page to Art. 3.] It had been the longstanding position of the Executive Branch that the phrase “not of an international character” limited the applicability of Common Article 3 to internal conflicts akin to a civil war and thus that the provision was not applicable to the global armed conflict against al Qaeda and its allies. See Memorandum of the President for the National Security Council, Re: Humane Treatment of al Qaeda and Taliban Detainees at 2(Feb. 7, 2002) (accepting the legal conclusion of the Department of Justice that common Article 3 “does not apply to either al Qaeda or Taliban detainees, because, among other reasons, the relevant conflicts are international in scope and common Article 3 applies only to ‘armed conflict not of an international character.’”)

    Arrrgh!! Maybe he thinks they’re the Annals of the Ordure de la Merde. (Which also suggests an entry in the great unwritten musical compositions compendium.) Here’s a site for all the Geneva Conventions of 1949 from the ICRC.

  12. BayStateLibrul says:

    Congrats for a Masters…
    Have we heard from Cheney yet? Heard he was on the high seas, decapitating
    marlins…
    The Old Fleecer and the Sea…

  13. JamesJoyce says:

    Corporate Aristocrats have usurped constitutional checks and balances, under the color of law in the lust for endless profit, and in doing so have decimated America. The myopic self interest of corporate compromised policymakers who action’s are actionable, but no action taken is analogous to the silence of Germans during a most unfortunate time in human history. Disgusting……

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions
    Grave breaches

    “Not all violations of the treaty are treated equally. The most serious crimes are termed grave breaches, and provide a legal definition of a war crime. Grave breaches of the Third and Fourth Geneva Conventions include the following acts if committed against a person protected by the convention: willful killing, torture or inhuman treatment, including biological experiments; willfully causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health; compelling one to serve in the forces of a hostile power; and willfully depriving one of the right to a fair trial. Also considered grave breaches of the Fourth Geneva Convention are the following: taking of hostages; extensive destruction and appropriation of property not justified by military necessity and carried out unlawfully and wantonly; and unlawful deportation, transfer, or confinement.[8]”

    “Nations who are party to these treaties must enact and enforce legislation penalizing any of these crimes. Nations are also obligated to search for persons alleged to commit these crimes, or ordered them to be committed, and to bring them to trial regardless of their nationality and regardless of the place where the crimes took place.”

    “The principle of universal jurisdiction also applies to the enforcement of grave breaches. Toward this end, the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda and the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia were established by the United Nations to prosecute alleged violations.”

    No “Situation Ethics” here, all enabled by instilled fear???

  14. klynn says:

    Just going slightly OT.

    Col.Wilkerson was focused on the target during his KO interview last night. He is right. This involves a small group from top down, and represents less than 1% of the entire agency and that we must prosecute all involved to restore our integrity.

    He made it clear that it does not matter what the atmosphere was after 9-11.

    And, congrats Mr. Wheeler. Comhgháirdeachas!

    • klynn says:

      EW,

      Thank you for all your posts yesterday. I regret I could not join in the “reading” of the report. Today is the first day of school and I did some “celebrate the end of summer break” activities with the kids and wanted to keep myself positive for their sake.

      After reading the posts late last night, it’s clear, we need to know what the redacted parts are; especially irt the children. (Thanks for your diary JimWhite).

      My oldest and I will be making the reading trek through the report in a day.

    • Loo Hoo. says:

      BT has the Wilkerson interview up next door.

      Congratulations to Mr. EW! I hear he’s a master of disaster.

  15. Rayne says:

    Perhaps we’ve discussed this at some time in the recent or distant past; I’m playing catch up to you folks right now as I’ve been working on other projects, might have missed this.

    But why is there a redaction in the classification of the Bradbury to Rizzo letter of Aug. 31, 2006? It’s parallel to the redaction in the Bradbury to Rizzo letter of May 30, 2005.

    Was Bradbury responding to questions Rizzo asked related to a compartmentalized program, hidden under the redaction? or was the classification a reference to handling by contractors? Thoughts?

    • klynn says:

      “Was Bradbury responding to questions Rizzo asked related to a compartmentalized program, hidden under the redaction? or was the classification a reference to handling by contractors? Thoughts?”

      Great question Rayne.

  16. Leen says:

    Jim Whites post
    Attorney General Holder: What Happened to KSM’s Children? Release All of Paragraph 95!
    http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/7511

    EW Firedoglake was mentioned during Goodmans interview with Isikoff yesterday
    Newsweek: Inspector General Report Reveals CIA Conducted Mock Executions
    http://www.democracynow.org/20…..eveals_cia

    “AMY GOODMAN: Firedoglake is saying that they have been holding it because the CIA has been reviewing it to protect John Rizzo’s role in crafting Office of Legal Counsel memos that claim to authorize torture, the outgoing general counsel for the CIA.

    MICHAEL ISIKOFF: Well, we do know that John Rizzo, who was the acting general counsel of the CIA, was directly involved in these matters. He was the CIA lawyer who shows up on the memos that have been released as the one who was communicating with the Justice Department lawyers about how these memos would be written. And so, he—it would make sense that he would be directly involved. Whether the CIA is trying to protect him, as opposed to just generally protecting disclosures about these programs, is hard to know.

    It is worth noting that CIA Director Panetta, appointed by President Obama, has been leading the charge against disclosure of many of these matters. He fought the disclosure of the first batch of Justice Department memos that came out last spring. He has resisted disclosing operational cables that would shed light on the interrogation of, for example, Abu Zubaydah, who was the first detainee to be waterboarded. He has essentially been adopting the position of his agency in fighting, saying any further disclosures will demoralize the CIA and make it more difficult for it to do its job. “

  17. acquarius74 says:

    I have not yet read all of the material to which Marcy has provided the links. However, all that I’ve seen so far redacts the “legal authorization granted to it in [2 inch redaction]”.

    What is so secret about our legal statutes that it would be putting the national security at risk to reveal them?

    I am of the opinion that The National Security Act of 1947, amended grants no such authorization; hence the “authorization” granted by OLC memos and Bush’s Executive Order must be hidden by an excess of black ink.

    Will you lawyers please enlighten me as to the legal authority which is hidden in the redaction?

    • acquarius74 says:

      and in response to Mary02 @ 40:

      Here is an online pdf file of the National Security Act, 1947 [50 USC 401 note] as it apparently stands now. “This reflects amendments enacted into law through Public Law 110-53 (August 3, 2007)”

      The website is http://www.intelligence.senate.gov/nsaact1947.pdf

      The Sec. pertaining to the CIA, and the Dir of the CIA begin on page 18, but the vital Sec. is found on page 30. (Sec.104A(4) and Sec. 104 [50 USC 403-4] and Sec. 104A [50 U.S.C.403-4a], (c)(1)and (2); and (d)(1), (2), (3), and (4).

      Me: Under the original law the CIA was placed solely under the National Security Council, a committee. Now, however, the wording is that the CIA shall: (4) “perform such other functions and duties related to intelligence affecting the national security as the President or the Director of National Intelligence may direct.”

      So, Mary or someone, please correct me if I have misinterpreted this when I understand this to mean that all the atrocious, torturous acts committed by the CIA had to be at the direction of either the Director of National Intelligence or Pres. George W. Bush.

      Question: Was the addition of “the President” added in the 2007 changes? If so, that’s a bit late, huh?

Comments are closed.