Is DOD So Sure They Weren’t Involved in the Rashid Dostum Massacre?
Last Monday, I noted two particular details of the Obama Administration’s response to news of spiked investigations into General Rashid Dostum’s massacre of up to thousands of prisoners in 2001. First, DOD said it didn’t need to investigate because there was no evidence American personnel were involved.
There’s DOD, which bases its opposition to an investigation on the claim that there’s no evidence US forces were involved in the massacre.
Asked about the report, Marine Corps Col. David Lapan, a Pentagon spokesman, said that since U.S. military forces were not involved in the killings, there is nothing the Defense Department could investigate.
"There is no indication that U.S. military forces were there, or involved, or had any knowledge of this," Lapan said. "So there was not a full investigation conducted because there was no evidence that there was anything from a DoD (Department of Defense) perspective to investigate."
And, President Obama offered up the suggestion that we might have been involved.
PRESIDENT OBAMA: I think that, you know, there are responsibilities that all nations have even in war. And if it appears that our conduct in some way supported violations of the laws of war, then I think that, you know, we have to know about that.
Which is why Mark Benjamin’s addition to this story is so key. He reports that American forces may have observed the men packed into trucks.
Earlier this month, Pulitzer Prize-winning New York Times reporter James Risen advanced the story, revealing that the United States had resisted any war crimes investigation into the massacre, despite learning from Dell Spry, the lead FBI agent at Guantánamo Bay following the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan, that many Afghan detainees were telling similar stories of a mass killing. Spry directed interviews of detainees by FBI agents at Guantánamo Bay, and compiled allegations made by the detainees.
[snip]
What the Times did not say was that these Guantánamo prisoners also said that U.S. personnel were present during the massacre. "The allegation was that U.S. forces were present while Dostum’s troops were herding these people into these containers," Spry, now retired from the FBI and working as an FBI consultant, told Salon. "They were out rounding up alleged Taliban and insurgent folks."
Spry said that at the time of the interviews not long after the invasion of Afghanistan he found the detainees’ claims of a massacre "plausible," since the detainees separately told similar stories. Spry thought an investigation seemed warranted. He found the claims of the involvement of U.S. personnel, however, more specious, mostly because he doubted that Americans would participate in or stand by passively during a massacre. "I did not believe that then and I do not believe that now," he said about the alleged involvement of U.S. personnel.
DOD–at least according to the AP story–won’t investigate until there’s evidence US personnel were present. Yet survivors of the massacre did describe Americans being present at least when the Afghans were loaded onto trucks.
Now, the investigative report Salon includes describes one American present before the Afghans were put into shipping containers, and Americans arriving at the prison a month after the Afghans were saved from the shipping containers. So it may be that any Americans were simply working with Dostum more generally (and photographing captivity operations). But it seems like the reports ought to be enough to require DOD to investigate.
Read the whole story–there’s a very disturbing report of the Taliban who currently hold a US solder captive invoking Dostum. Which might explain why this story originally got dumped into a Saturday news black hole.
Actually, if there were US personnel present, I wonder whether they weren’t actually CIA? Dostum was, after all, on CIA’s payroll.
The key phrase which concerns me is “U.S. personnel” – do we know these are military or CIA or contractors? Especially since James Risen’s report about the death of Mike Spann during the Mazar-i-Sharif uprising read:
Leads one to believe people were talking about contractors…
NCDem (23) – have to wonder if the story about Spann was deliberately leaked in an effort to whitewash the problems in Afghanistan. Seems like every time there’s a story about a hero/heroine, there’s a whitewashing job. Like Pat Tillman and Jessica Lynch.
Had completely forgotten about Jessica Lynch. Now that you bring up those examples and looking back along 7 – 8 years, it’s been “SELL, SELL, SELL THE WAR” all the time, hasn’t it? Really. Like a sales campaign. (Somebody read “1984″ closely and liked it.)
Someone read 1984 and decided it was a manual of operations!
(Had to read it in school. Didn’t like it.)
That would make sense. The only other americans around were special ops and CIA. Just ask John Lind.
yes, there were the hard-core special ops and most omerta-worthy CIA folks around, the ones hand-selected to lead the round-ups and subsequent handling of captives. remember also that the Pentagon-CIA nexus in charge of the Afghanistan operation were more or less the American equivalent of Waffen SS leadership.
I’m not saying that the U.S. personnel necessarily literally orchestrated the slaughters but did participate by organizing and otherwise assisting the roundups, provided the transportation, knew very well what was intended for the victims, witnessed the aftermath, and then did not report it – all of which are war crimes.
it’s amazing this whole scandal is considered “new”. I’ve had a well-made independent British documentary of the madness since 2002. it’s amazing how this American Christianist nation turns its eyes away from its own evil, as well as doesn’t turn the other cheek. it’s all eye for an eye, even though the people massacred were only defending their own country!
NewsNag
You left out the the U.S. personnel were the ones who delivered the cash to the ones doing the work.
You need to understand that this American Christianist nation has a penchant for installing psychopaths in its highest elected office. What occurred in this incident was directly ordered by the White House. What Bush and Cheney differed little from what an earlier pair, Nixon and Kissenger, did when the occupied the same position.
Military “Observers” aren’t responsible as visitors for what the forces they are visiting do. But they have a responsibility to advise their clients about the laws of war and the most obvious implications of violating them, even if they were advising the Serbs about their “operations” in the Balkans. And they have a responsibility to report back to those that command them, even if that’s Mr. Prince at Blackwater instead of Mr. Gates at the DoD or one of his generals.
As in that analogy, failure to so advise would seem to be a problem. And it would be too careful a parsing, had observers seen and witnessed this mistreatment which led to thousands of deaths, to say blithely that Americans were not “involved”. They appear to be involved up to their muscular necks.
Mr. Obama is smart enough to know that it’s not the crime, it’s the cover-up that can get politicians into hot water, even if his people didn’t commit it.
The CIA was as much or more handlers than observers arguably.
How can that not be so? And beyond reporting back to command, somebody has a responsibility to tell the people back home if their troops/agents are working with allies who commit crimes, especially on this scale.
If the people turn against a war, it doesn’t matter who the c-in-c is. Or at least that’s the theory. I know how naive this sounds. I has a sad.
One caveat: we do not know that the Americans present (if they were present), whether CIA or Special Forces, did NOT advise their clients of the laws of war and report the violations up their chain of command. It is entirely possible that they did–and got no guidance or ordxers to stop making waves.
To me, this is another example that screams for war crimes investigations of top Bush-era officials–Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Cheyney, Bush, and Tenet. They definitely knew what happened, whether the field operatives reported it or not–Wolfowitz was actively discouraging investigation of a valuable “asset”. These officials definitely had an obligation to investigate.
I am very heartened at all the stuff that’s coming out. May the drip, drip, drip escalate and our Judicial Branch continue to flex its muscle and defend and protect our Constitution–vigorously! (Birthday’s tomorrow, so I’m gonna make that my Big Wish.)
Yep, Happy Birthday Fatster.
Kinda speechless to see that. Many thnx. Means much.
Why speechless? The people that come here and participate are a good part of what makes this blog special and are sincerely appreciated.
Especially when they give us an excuse to eat cake!
Happy birthday, fatster!
(Dostum just popped up in the Rumsfeld bio, about halfway through. Reading carefully now…)
Man, you’re already halfway through that brick? Daunting.
it’s just one of the perks ya get around here
but don’t let it go to yer head
bmaz welcomes EVERYBODY around here, and passes on birthday wishes, wedding greetings, an stuff like that. he’s like a one man welcome wagon or sumtin (that’s how we ended up with all these Canadians an such) I’m thinkin he’s one of them perpetual
optometristsoptimist, or a “morning person” or some other weird shit like thatany way, congrats on survivin another trip around Sol
and here’s to hopin you survive many more
onward thru the fog …
Many thnx, Freep! Even the weather cooperated today. Been a good ‘un.
Happy birthday, fatster! It’s been a pleasure getting to know you.
Happy Birthday!
Bless you! I’m two behind you. That should count for sumpthin.
“What the Times did not say was that these Guantánamo prisoners also said that U.S. personnel were present during the massacre. “The allegation was that U.S. forces were present while Dostum’s troops were herding these people into these containers,” Spry, now retired from the FBI and working as an FBI consultant, told Salon. “They were out rounding up alleged Taliban and insurgent folks.”
This sounds like he’s referring to US military squads actively participating in capturing Taliban and insurgents and bringing them to some central location where the trucks and shipping containers were. Seems to be a military operation.
“He found the claims of the involvement of U.S. personnel, however, more specious, mostly because he doubted that Americans would participate in or stand by passively during a massacre. “I did not believe that then and I do not believe that now,” he said about the alleged involvement of U.S. personnel.”
Spry is speculating here and obviously doesn’t know. The prisoners who survived don’t know because they were locked inside the windowless containers.
I recall reading something or watching a program (possibly 60 Minutes?) about this 4 or 5 years ago and one of the truck drivers said U.S. soldiers stood by and watched this go down without comment or effort to stop it. The trucks and containers were requisitioned basically at gunpoint by General Dostum’s men and directed where to go. The containers were loaded up and they were told where to take them. I remember the driver describing the screaming and begging for water and how he bad he felt. Finally, soldiers stopped the trucks and ordered the drivers to get out and then the shooting and screaming began.
Drivers who witnessed the massacre should be contacted and interviewed.
From my files..please do click on the link and watch the Democracy Now Film ..it is must see and documents eye witnesses of American Troops being present..
http://www.informationclearing…..le3267.htm
Afghan Massacre : The Convoy of Death
In Afghanistan, filmmaker Jamie Doran has uncovered evidence of a massacre: Taliban prisoners of war suffocated in containers, shot in the desert under the watch of American troops.
The film has been broadcast on national television in countries all over the world and has been screened by the European parliament. Human rights lawyers are calling for investigation into whether U.S. forces are guilty of war crimes. But no U.S. media outlet has broadcast the film.
Today, on Democracy Now!, the U.S. broadcast premiere of a documentary film called “Afghan Massacre: The Convoy of Death.”
The film provides eyewitness testimony that U.S. troops were complicit in the massacre of thousands of Taliban prisoners during the Afghan War.
It tells the story of thousands of prisoners who surrendered to the US military’s Afghan allies after the siege of Kunduz. According to eyewitnesses, some three thousand of the prisoners were forced into sealed containers and loaded onto trucks for transport to Sheberghan prison. Eyewitnesses say when the prisoners began shouting for air, U.S.-allied Afghan soldiers fired directly into the truck, killing many of them. The rest suffered through an appalling road trip lasting up to four days, so thirsty they clawed at the skin of their fellow prisoners as they licked perspiration and even drank blood from open wounds.
Witnesses say that when the trucks arrived and soldiers opened the containers, most of the people inside were dead. They also say US Special Forces re-directed the containers carrying the living and dead into the desert and stood by as survivors were shot and buried. Now, up to three thousand bodies lie buried in a mass grave.
The film has sent shockwaves around the world. It has been broadcast on national television in Britain, Germany, Italy and Australia. It has been screened by the European parliament. It has outraged human rights groups and international human rights lawyers. They are calling for investigation into whether U.S. Special Forces are guilty of war crimes.
But most Americans have never heard of the film. That’s because not one corporate media outlet in the U.S. will touch it. It has never before been broadcast in this country.
Today, Democracy Now! brings you the premiere broadcast of “Afghan Massacre” in the United States.
This sounds like the film I remembered and posted about @7.
I’m afraid to click on your link to check because I recall how it upset me. Once is enough for me. Those who haven’t really should see it.
Let’s not forget that Dostum was part of the Northern Alliance, and that the “Taliban” is a name associated with a faction of the Pashtun tribe in southern and eastern Afghanistan and adjacent parts of Pakistan. I question whether the captives were really all Taliban, or whether they were largely Pashtun, with significant elements of Taliban. So what we have here is inter-ethnic warfare, and probably some “ethnic cleansing.”
Bob in HI
From my reading, the surrender was negotiated over 4-5 days before the final surrender. Even then, more than 400 decided to make a break and head toward Pakistan. Many of these were killed. Once they surrendered, they were identified as Pashtun, Arab, Pakistani, or Chechnyan.
One point that many ignore is that they were all promised a return to their homelands if the US forces did not regard them as al Qaeda. Probably, the majority of those who tried to escape were involved while the others thought they would be treated fairly since they were only fighting against Dostrum as Taliban.
The large crates did not arrive until the 2nd or 3rd day after the surrender. There is a long history on the crates between the Northern Alliance and the Taliban. Since 1998, they had used the supply crates that came from America during the fight with the Soviets in the 1980’s as a weapon. Captured soldiers would be place in the crates, hauled to the desert, and left to bake in the sun. Reports that during the summer months, the skin would turn black and fall off the bones within days in captivity.
The CIA and other US personnel knew about this history. It was reported that both sides had cleaned out the crates and used them again and again on each other. It has been also reported that CIA agents were near and traveled with Dostrum during this entire negotiation and the wait for the arrival of the crates. They were all aware of the riot within the last few days where CIA agent Michael Spann was killed. Rage was probably in the air.
More pressure to bear on Obama, who has told his “national security team” to investigate and see what the “facts” are. And who exactly is Obama referring to as his NST? Stephen Kappes? Hayden? Gates? Panetta?
It is difficult to imagine that Dostum was running around without any U.S. supervision. Who was his CIA handler? Since no one argues that the prisoners were turned over to both the Americans and Dostum’s people, who was in charge of prisoners at that point on the U.S. side? The simple answers to these questions should not take seven or eight years to answer.
Maybe, as I suggested at my comment at Salon on Benjamin’s article, the situation was not much different that how the U.S. stood by, and even gave sanction, to the killings of tens of thousands by Rhee’s government in the bloodletting that occurred in South Korean just prior to the start of the Korean War. Associated Press ran a series on this story about a year ago, as the news filtered out from South Korea’s own Truth and Reconciliation Commission called to investigate this decades-old atrocity.
The leopards don’t change their spots.
Hey, fatster! Happy birthday cake.
There is not a bit of moral difference between shooting up containers loaded up with human beings and some clown in the desert pulling the drone trigger on a Hell Fire Missile aimed at a funeral other than proximity.
We are showing the bankrupting militaristic moral rot infesting our Government, to the rest of the world.
I have trouble with this thought. I agree with you that what we’re watching with the drone attacks is murder, different from war somehow.
But degrees of proximity and dishonesty about premeditation seem to me to make a difference in these things. That’s why torture is so abhorrent compared to killing in the heat of battle. The drones are more wicked than war, but intentional torment of other human beings over time is worse.
Sorry, I know this completely OT and the story is not related to anything, but this little bit was interesting/curious
‘The court heard that a mobile telephone found in the victim’s pocket recorded the argument between the pair.’
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_…..160226.stm
It would be helpful to go back to the media coverage of the early days of the Afghanistan War. My memory is that there were lots of reports of prisoners being detained in shipping containers, with some dying from suffocation or heat stroke or cold. The big three broadcast network coverage would be a place to look.
The “We didn’t know” excuse is wearing a little thin when there was media coverage of, if nothing else, the risks to detainees.
Yes, definitely, and re-read all the early coverage without the fog of war. Even Risen’s piece seems a bit less skeptical than his later work.
Here’s a link to NYT’s coverage of Spann-related content; note that a few networks tried bidding on video of the Lindh interrogation in one of the stories. Have we seen this video?
At least three were Brits.
If you read through the statement EW linked there is a reference to one person who may have come in with the containers who was actually Northern Alliance, not Taliban.
Dostum’s background was that during the Soviet occupation, he worked with the RUSSIANS (and has some war crimes from those days stacked at his door). So he might well have taken the opportunity to settle old scores across a broad swath.
What no one has ever really done is tracked the money – the money we were paying for the turnover of people.
Man, late to the party, fatster. Nonetheless, have a great day! Happy B-day fellow Wheeler.
(btw, bmaz has a big heart. He even cheered for the Buckeyes once in my honor.)
Happy Birthday fatster.
This was in the letters section of the Salon story:
I don’t know Ken or how reliable he is or isn’t, but the “native garb” doesn’t make sense to me. If someone with Special Forces (or more likely CIA IMO) were there, they were there working with and directing Dostum’s forces, not lying low and infiltrating with the natives and worrying about robbery and kidnap.
If they were there with Dostum and Northern Alliance assault forces, esp there as their American handlers, I don’t think they’d be trying to dress like the guys being shoved in the containers and blend in.
I’m looking at a some pictures in Jawbreaker, Gary Berntsen’s book (that needs to be re-issued in a much less redacted fashion!!) One is a picture of Berntsen, Lt. Com Haas and someone not named, whose face is blacked out (RJ?) – granted they are in Kabul (Nov, 2001) but they are all in “civilian” clothes, including one in a pair of blue jeans. Another pic has Berntsen and another guy in a helicopter, in civilian clothes, and then there’s a pic of NA Gen Fahim, in pretty western clothes.
As a matter of fact, Berntsen details that “R.J.” was working with Dostum and RJ is described as, “a tall, imposing former U.S. Army Ranger who spoke the Afghan dialect of Farsi known as Dari and had served multiple tours in South Asia.” Jawbreaker, p. 74.
Berntsen also gives this info:
Jawbreaker, pp 74-75
One thing that lends some support to the statement taken by the FBI agent, with the reference to soldiers rounding up:
Jawbreaker, p. 242
But even while pretty much admitting that Special Froces would have been interacting with the Northern Alliance wh were “processing” prisoners, if nothing else to hand off the prisoners that they were taking, Berntsen then makes a point that he almost can’t have known to be a fact, since it didn’t involve his mission and ended up addressing a lot of different teams in it’s broad statement:
Jawbreaker, p. 242
So he makes two specific points that he really couldn’t have known to be true without other confirmation – first, that there was no US personnel involved with anything involving the prisoners (even though Dostum was handling them and had been detailed support and even though forces had to be interacting some to turn prisoners over) and also that “hundreds” asphyxiated in container trucks. Not an unknown number, or even a many, but hundreds.
The suspicious cynic in me thinks that sounds a lot like what kind of story might come out if the CIA did have someone around and there were thousands killed. First deny any US presence, then leave out the firing into containers and lend credibility by admitting to some deaths, but way undercount them.
OTOH, who knows? You have to wonder if anyone did interview the US forces/personnel known to be detailed to work with Dostum and figured out why none of them were around for any of this. Also, the drivers and their stories about soldiers doesn’t have anything to counter it so far.
There ya go, exactly. If the US had no minders and blinders on Dostum, then WHY?
looking back now at the other comments, it’s scarey how much you and klynn put down what I’m thinking.
In the documentary “Convoy of Death” it is reported that American military were there.
Amy Goodman was on it right away
http://www.informationclearing…..le3267.htm
the convoy of death is worth watching
http://video.google.com/videop…..8859813632
Leen: See Ken Erfourth’s note above. If any US Special Forces people were there, they would NOT be wearing blue jeans, as that would make them a kidnaping target (and make them VERY noticeable, which is the last thing SF would want — they don’t want to be noticed, whatever they are doing). They would either be in uniform or dressed as natives.
This is not to say that SF would not be morally above standing by as detainees were killed. This is to say that they wouldn’t be doing it wearing clothes that make them stick out like sore thumbs and invite trouble.
How ever they were dressed sure sounds like many witnesses believe Americans were there.
Clearly the other issue is if Americans were not there. How did the Bush administration create, promote and give aid to this slaughter? Did Hitler actually kill anyone? Did Bush and Cheney? Did the Israeli soldiers who gave aid to the slaughter at Sabra and Shatilla? If psychopaths like Cheney, Bill Kristol and others do not pull the switch or trigger but create the environment for slaughters to take place and for others to pull the trigger or switch.
they are guilty in my book?
This call has been made previously without success. With a D in the White House, there’s an outside chance the call could now succeed.
Abolish the CIA’s authority to conduct covert operations.
Rayne and TarheelDem,
You both might find this NPR essay by Steve Coll from 2004 interesting. Coll authored Ghost Wars which is a worthwhile read.
Risen’s dismissal is pretty odd – with no other investigation?
One of the most telling things IMO is how the US has deliberately pulled back and allowed Dostum to dig up and destroy evidence at the burial site. Obamaco got tons of complaints by tons of human rights organizations that this was going on, begging to have the military stationed a couple of miles away from the site protect it. Think how fast we got people over distances of much more than 2 miles to go dig up Hussein mass burial sites. But the one created while we were invading, repeatedly reported on throughout the world, and deliberately destroyed during the change of administrations is one that we do nothing about.
Yeah – that sounds like what you do when you have clean hands.
That still doesn’t mean that the key alleged witness is telling the truth about alleged US involvement, as Ken Erfourth points out.
The entire situation begs for serious forensics, too many pieces which don’t match up.
Why are there so many people floating around with cameras at the site at the time, in spite of the presence of covert intelligence officers? A detainee said there was “one big, tall, caucasian, American looking man who was wearing blue jeans” taking pictures of trucks; there’s an Afghan cameraman videotaping the interrogation of Lindh.
Were there more cameras, and why were they there at all?
It was PORNO for the White House.
How in the world did “Ken Erfourth” become an expert on diddy squat? His opinion is worth about as many electrons as it took to type it. Same as mine is. Is big Ken claiming that there wasn’t such a man there in blue jeans? Does he know whether there were other men? Big Ken talks only about infantry and special forces; suppose the guy was CIA? There are a couple of elements to his analysis that seem to make sense, granted, but they are dispositive of absolutely nothing, and his last two sentences sure make him look like an belligerent troll more than knowledgeable authority.
And Rayne is exactly right, there is certainly sufficient evidence to demand a full investigation and there is about zero question that Dostum was a CIA asset. so for this “Ken Erfourth” to say it is all groovy is just a bit much of a pile of crap.
Yeah, that occurred to me, too, hadn’t finished my search for more about Ken Efourth. He’s definitely a regular at Salon, has been for years.
If there were no US personnel in the area, which I highly doubt, then why were there none? Dostum was their asset/partner/whatever, he had a reputation and they did nothing to keep the reins on him? There were reports of this from almost the time it happened apparently why was it shined on?
The investigative report summarizing the eyewitness account by the Guantanamo prisoner would be one of many the government has concerning the events, that it could and should now release.
It comes from the ACLU FOIA collection. There should be many more documents like it, along the lines of the interviews Spry described.
As for the logical improbability of U.S. personnel being in the area, if they are described as wearing blue jeans, someone should have told Johnny Spann.
I think you are picking up on one thing, in one statement (not necessarily the “key” witness for that matter) and one commentor at Salon, while here we’ve been talking about a much broader set of facts for a fairly long time.
The Tipton three were also survivors of the shipping container killings. Then there were the drivers of the convoys. From Andy Worthington, writing at Dandelion Salad
I’m not sure what point you are wanting to make – if it is that you don’t believe that one of the detainees saw a caucasian man, ok, you don’t believe that.
The points otherwise made are that caucasian men were absolutely detailed to work with Dostum – he was our guy, on our payroll, with handlers and support staff from us, and it is very likely we were paying him for everyone he delivered and the dead or alive part might not have matter much. We also know that there were a lot of reports of US forces being present when the containers were opened and some reports of US forces accompanying Dostum’s guys to the selected burial site and overseeing the cover up of the bodies.
We also know that the English speaking survivors of the killings, the Tipton 3, were taken pdq to GITMO and there, miraculously, they were humanely interrogated into saying that they were the previously unidentified men in a picture with Bin Laden. Oh – and that story seems to have come a year or so into detention, with a CIA impetus behind it. See – all good now, they were al-Qaeda terrorists so it would have been ok under the assassination authorizations to have killed them in the containers anyway.
Unfortunately, once lawyers were finally involved to be provided with the stories and pressure was put on Britain, MI5 had to reluctantly confirm that, quantum theory-time traveland the like aside, there was no freakin way any of the three could have been in that picture with Bin Laden.
Still, it was a pretty convenient way of redirecting the discussion away from their knowledge of the shipping container killings.
And then there has been the repeated call over years for exhumation and investigation and Bushco steadfastly refused. Then there was Obama coming in, which precipitated Dostum to go out with heavy equipment and start digging up the mass grave site and destroying evidence. All very openly, all with all kinds of pleas for the US, a couple of miles up the road, to do something about it. All with Obamaco sitting patiently, waiting for the destruction of evidence to be finished, then suddenly paying attention.
I don’t really care if the report is credible to you and Ken, personally, or not. The whole fucking thing has all kinds of related information and should have been investigated and Obama allowed the destruction of the site before while he practiced steepling his fingers.
Those prisoners described being “stacked like cordwood” in the shipping containers while the mass killing occurred.
There’s a great, chilling scene in an otherwise syrupy Douglas Sirk film called “A Time to Love and a Time to Die,” in which Klaus Kinski (as a psychopathic Gestapo officer) talks about people “stacked like cordwood” then set on fire.
That’s what we’ve become.
It was simply a personal thing for W. Daddy killed a US President and got away with it. To prove to daddy he was worthy as a son, he needed to commit as many war crimes as possible during his eight year stint.
A new Seminal poster, thebagofhealthandpolitics, has a cross-post up on the front page: “Study: Public Option Saves the $200 Billion”
More on this story:
After you watch Doran’s documentary, or before, or never, you can take a look at this
http://www.newsweek.com/id/65473
I realize he’s no Ken, but Haglund was actually at the site investigating in 2002. He was there because of PHR reports, but only in part. It was because those were confirme by local aid workers for other ngos and Afghan officials.
A UN official privy to the investigation. Newsweek’s extensive inquiries of prisoners, truckdrivers, etc.
And lets face it – you are invading a country, working with locals and there is a mass collection of prisoners (you know, the guys who are going to give you the intel on where to find bin laden) to be held at a prison, and NO ONE is around or about the prison? No security, no surveillance, no intel guys, no nothing? Ok -maybe, it was a hectic time, but it doesn’t pass the smell test.
In addition to Haglund back then, McClatchey sent someone to the site in 2008.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/255/story/58132.html
But Ken’s right – there shouldn’t be any investigation, because who could believe that tall tale about blue jeans. Especially after looking at the picture of the guy with his face blacked out in Berntsen’s book in
blue jeans“native attire.”The point about special forces in denim is valid: NOBODY trying to blend in that area would wear them.
We are left with three theories:
1) They were special forces, just stupid ones.
2) It was a calculated attempt to frame America.
3) It was an american, just not special forces.
I’m betting on #3. I think what was seen was either a reporter or a CIA contractor. If it was a reporter, they never wrote the story. Which means somewhere there’s likely a dead reporter. If it was a contractor, it means that somewhere in the CIA, somebody knows.
Boxturtle (Happy Birthday, fatster!)
Or four, it was a false report.
The allegation that there were Americans working with Dostum is more widespread than this one report. But I’d like to see more on which they are based–because if this is it, it’s not convincing. But if there’s more…
I’m also interested in the US report that medics arrived on the second day after the shipping containers arrived to the prison, but that the detainee said they arrived a month after.
Was the US report of the medics’ arrival made more or less than a month after the shipping containers arrived? Because I wouldn’t put it past the previous maladministration to lie about that, too, especially if it would help avoid another potential war crime charge.
No, the US report says medics arrive on day 2. The Gitmo detainee said Americans arrived on day 30.
Berntsen’s book, Jawbreaker, has a decent amount of info on the way the US was working with the NA in general and Dostum in particular. I’ve quoted some above, but there’s more.
It sure doesn’t sound like there could have been much that Dostum was involved in that didn’t have CIA presence via “RJ” linked with it. But that’s what investigations are for and sure, it could be wrong. What isn’t wrong is that the site is there and we knew of the site and the reports tied to it for a long long time and not only did nothing, we allowed Dostum to come in later and destroy the evidence.
Agree on both counts.
I’m trying to do a couple of things.
1) Parse out what kind of hard evidence there is (bc that’s more useful for pressuring Obama)
2) Reaffirm that there’s no question Dostum was working with the US
3) Figure out what the real circumstances were and how they’ve parsed themselvse out of a war crimes investigation
If the witnesses were CIA, it would explain a whole lot of things, not least DOD’s parsin.
Good luck with getting one of them to talk. “Integrity” in CIA lingo means taking a bullet for the Chief.
This isn’t any proof for you, but here’s my gut.
Right now, you have regular military and State Dept who want Dostum gone for good, in the worst kind of way. He’s nothing but corruption, murder, war crimes and generalized mayhem wanting to happen. He’s also pushed the envelope locally enough to where he is pretty much exiled over the border in Turkey anyhow, but Karzai keeps trying to stay tight with him.
So you have State and regular military and Pentagon all ok with revisiting the story of the killings as another push to get rid of Dostum. That’s one set of sources, too, for someone like Risen.
But then you have the guys who were told to go join the dark side to save the planet. CIA and the alphabet soup of special force assignments. They were on the ground, in the chaos, bent on getting Bin Laden and not really all that worried about the military status of the US as invading and occupying forces or about what the Afghans did with the Taliban, other than to the extent they could get top Taliban and get info on Bin Laden or on Taliban cooperation with plots against the US.
Those guys sent out to make the deals with the devils – like Dostum – but without much back up force initially. They were pushing in and fast way before huge numbers of ground troops were there to support them. They were, like we all were, angry and wanting revenge for 9/11 – even among the few that we had there at the time, only some would have any big picture sense of who was who on the operational front in Afghanistan, which warlord hated which other one, etc.
Then you had Spann killed. You had a huge mess and you had military and intel guys tied to Dostum who were there during his response. They probably couldn’t have done much, but even if they could have, they probably wouldn’t have. Think of the reaction of regular military with Lindh – those were the guys under a normal chain of command, not the cowboys in spec forces and CIA who lived under much looser rules anyway.
Then Dostum’s crew pulls the shipping container killings off. At that point, whether US forces were present during the killings/transport/suffocation or not, I’m fairly sure in my mind we had guys who knew about it – probably the same guys who sat and listened to people burning alive earlier. Bc they were joined at the hip to Dostum at that point in time.
But when the containers arrived, they were met some US military. Maybe some of the guys who had been going door to door in their hunt downs, bc I am positive that after what happened at Qara-i Jangi they would not be having thousands of prisoners arriving at an unmanned site without trying to send a little additional support there to meet them and help provide control as they unloaded their human cargo.
Only instead of prisoners that needed additional security, there were a lot of dead bodies in the containers. Heck, maybe the forces even knew there were going to be a lot of dead bodies and were sent to do damage control at the site. In any event, IMO the driver’s story of the US forces redirecting the trucks to get them away from the prison and before sat photos might be taken rings pretty true and explains the redirect. If Dostum’s crew had just wanted to dump the bodies, they likely wouldn’t have gone to the prison first.
The military and Dostum’s guys were told to get rid of the problem. Whether, as at least one driver seems to say, the US forces went with Dostum’s crew and the redirected convoy and assisted in the burial, cover up and killing of the weak and wounded – I don’t know. If you look at what happened to people like Lindh and Dilawar, even when the troops knew press was around, it’s not altogether unbelievable that a spec forces group, esp one with authority to assassinate anyone they wanted for example, would take that trip and assist with that burial.
In any event, I think the info is very strong that the US knew about some major atrocities at Qara-i Jangi and chit chatted with Dostum during those, and the US knew what happened with the containers no later than their arrival at the prison, and the US participated in some form in the redirection of the trucks and the mass burial treatment of the container victims.
I also think Dostum got paid for what he turned over, in whatever shape. And the money should be tracked.
In any event, the spec forces and CIA guys who probably did have hands on in both the prior live burnings and drownings and had some kind of relationship in some way with Dostum, and their bosses, form another set of sources for Risen. So I think you have some competing interests at work – one set wanting to get rid of Dostum (and who think that by waiting out the time for him to destroy evidence they have probably insulated the US) and one set who want to cover their own asses and who know Dostum would plant any knife coming his way into their backs happily and who knew about (not ordered) the killings and even assisted in the cover up/burial.
There are going to be strong interests at work to keep anyone from “dignifying” the concept that US forces would have been invovled with an investigation, esp one that is going to involve so much mess.
But for Risen and others to flippantly dismiss the claims that the US was around and about as unbelievable, knowing that Dostum had US guys with him while he was burning people alive, and knowing what US guys did to an Iraqi general and his children, and knowing what US guys did to Dilawar, etc. – I have to admit, I get a bit ticked off at the attitude.
Perhaps Dostum was being paid by BOTH sides?
Yeah,I used to respect Risen,but his flippant attitude on TV the other night rang those little warnings bells in my head…I’ve learned to pay close attention to them.
He doth protesteth too much…
I’ve been out of the loop recently,but didn’t Sy Hersh break this story originally?
???
The US personnel picked for that assignment were there because they were trustworthy and knew how to work under cover. They work not around for any of the hands-on work so nothing could be traced back to the White House, from where the direct orders were coming.
OT
James Bamford: The NSA is still listening to you
Bush went away, but domestic surveillance overreach didn’t. It’s now the law, and the ACLU is fighting back
http://www.salon.com/opinion/f…..sdropping/
Why would it make any difference what the dude in blue jeans was wearing if General Dostum invited him to be there? Nobody is going to mess with the guy. He would have no reason to go native or hide what he was doing. If he had a digital camera, maybe he sent them electronically directly to Cheney. The photographs and apparently indiscriminate roundup may be evidence of an agreement carried out to secure payment of a bounty.
The blue jeans rant is irrelevant. Someone traveling with Dostum (and bankrolling him) would have no fear of kidnap, and no need to blend in.
In the Doran documentary, witnesses were clear that there were American forces (plural) around when the containers were filled with prisoners. It’s also the case that numerous military, intel, and State Dept types knew Dostum’s history.
Not to mention the refusal to allow independent access to the burial site in all the years since, combined with standing by while Dostum’s people were allowed to remove the evidence this past winter.
We knew.
Sorry, didn’t refresh in time to see that all these points made and better above.
I can’t imagine General Dostum without US knowledge and consent openly committing mass murder on this scale and openly delivering the bodies to the prison and, upon arriving or being intercepted en route, diverting the convoy out into the desert to bury and hide the bodies in a mass grave. No sign of any effort whatsoever to conceal anything AND the evidence indicates that he intended and in fact delivered the bodies to the Americans. The conclusion is inescapable. General Dostum had no reason to believe he did anything that would displease the US.
I suspect he was paid a certain amount of money per body, dead or alive, pursuant to the terms of an agreement previously reached.
From the Newsweek article linked above:
Qala Jangi – that would have been the uprising where Spann was killed. The handful of American soldiers that never left Dostum’s side and he could vouch for each other I guess, that neither was there. OTOH, they would have been with him when he went to Qala-i Jangi, where the rioters were holed up and wouldn’t surrender. They would have been there through this (as described in Jawbreaker, p. 263):
So I guess we were just by his side as he burned people alive, not so much when he suffocated and shot them.
All conducted for the circle jerk gang in the White House.
Methinks Dostum’s spokesperson, Faizullah Zaki, has a wee bit of a credibility problem.
Most excellent observation, Mary, when you said,
“The handful of American soldiers that never left Dostum’s side and [so they] could vouch for each other I guess, that neither was there. OTOH, they would have been with him when he went to Qala-i Jangi, where the rioters were holed up and wouldn’t surrender.
I don’t suppose there’s any chance they were with him when he gave the order to ventilate the containers. Stop the presses! The general deserves the Humanitarian of the Year Award for 2001.
In a National Geographic Adventure article, Robert Pelton, who filmed John Walker Lindh for CNN, calls the handful 12. Or maybe 13, depending on whether you also count Pelton himself:
Pelton certainly comes across as “embedded”, both with Special Forces, and with Dostum:
“I don’t take dictation” Pelton says. Just after telling the kids how shy and gentle Dostum is.
Here is an anonymous soldier view of the style of support:
Bill Haglund, the forensic anthropologist mentioned in May’s post @66, is brilliant, thorough, and probably the best in the world at what he does. He worked for the King County Medical Examiner’s Office in Seattle during the 80s finding, retrieving, and identifying the Green River Killer’s victims.
Tough job.
Amy Goodman
“The film has sent shockwaves around the world. It has been broadcast on national television in Britain, Germany, Italy and Australia. It has been screened by the European parliament. It has outraged human rights groups and international human rights lawyers. They are calling for investigation into whether U.S. Special Forces are guilty of war crimes.
But most Americans have never heard of the film. That’s because not one corporate media outlet in the U.S. will touch it. It has never before been broadcast in this country.
Today, Democracy Now! brings you the premiere broadcast of “Afghan Massacre” in the United States.”
$$$$ Has anyone heard Rachel Maddow, or Olbermann report anything about this massacre? I thought they once said they are in control of their programming.
Chris Matthews mentioned at the Libby Trial that he was not in control of the programming.
When will these MSM outlets report about this massacre? Their bosses must not want Americans to see their dirty wars
Hadn’t read Dostum’s response to Risen’s story–it’s a real piece of work.
The whole thing is worth reading.
Did he acquire the name as a result of his penchant for going with the highest bidder or was it given to him at birth and he’s simply lived up to it? What a friend we have indeed. And he’s not good at playing “cover-up”, either, as his article proves.
Afghan warlord Dostum is ‘everyone’s friend’
By Tom Lasseter | McClatchy Newspapers
SHEBERGHAN, Afghanistan — “The name Dostum means “everyone’s friend,” and in a certain sense that sums up the political career of Gen. Abdul Rashid Dostum: from Soviet-supported militia leader during the Russian occupation of Afghanistan to close ally of the United States after 9-11.”
Link.
Ah: “He was born Abdul Rashid in 1954″ and “he was adept at the game of buzkashi, in which teams of horsemen attempt to toss the headless carcass of a calf into a circle. . . . the violent game is not so much about scoring as it is about using every dirty trick possible–beating, whipping, kicking–to prevent the opposing team from scoring.”
Dostum “means ‘my friend.’ It was a nickname that the young soldier was given for his habitual way of addressing people.”
from The Legend of Heavy D and the Boys by Robert Young Pelton
Thank God for McClatchy.
Talk about a voice in the reportage wilderness….
“but the U.S. Defense Department has denied that any Americans were present WHEN the prisoners died…”
Now,I,m not a lawyer,but it sure seems that there is some big time parsing going on there.
Namely,Americans COULD have been there AFTER they were already dead-accidentally on purpose.
I just got this mental picture of a bunch of Americans, soldiers and/or CIA, standing around watching until someone gives the signal and then they quickly put on goggles with blacked out lenses so they don’t see what happens.
If the point is not yet perfectly clear, the towers were brought down so Bush and Cheney could indulge themselves in these orgies of violence.
All other reasons were secondary.
By subcintracting this contract to Dostum,wouldn’t that protect the US from being accused of violating Geneva Convention?
Especially if the suffocations were later CLAIMED to be UN-intentional?
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe conspiracy to commit a war crime is itself a war crime.
But if the givernment says you gotta prove Americans were even there,its kinda hard to prove conspiracy,right?
And they won’t investigate until you prove Americans were even there!
Pretty neat trick,wouldn’t you say?
The Invisible Conspirators?
There is a well-guarded trail of the communications between the operatives and the White House. Gaining access to that trail is the key to bringing down the torture freaks.
That would be a dead end trail where Connell”s plane went down ,when he forgot how to fly.
The remains that were dug up recently must have been re-interred somewhere and, since it was a large scale operation, there must have been a plan and quite a few witnesses, perhaps including the ubiquitous “handful of American soldiers.”
Perhaps Google Earth might be of assistance in identifying probable locations where the re-internment took place. Relatives of the missing and presumed dead may have some ideas and information picked up through the grapevine and know where the bodies are. Not easy to keep something like this secret because too many people know what happened and it’s the sort of thing people like to talk about.
this response by Obama is pathetic…really pathetic
“then I think that, you know, we have to know about that.”
Nothing about accountability…justice…pathetic
Watching the documentary again
every american should watch this
So shameful so criminal. It’s so similar to the way native Americans were slaughtered by Americans. Now we have the locals do our dirty work
http://video.google.com/videop…..8859813632
When will Rachel, Matthews or Olbermann start reporting about this massacre
How to Argue Against Torture
Always Wrong; Always Illegal; Always Unjustifiable
http://www.counterpunch.org/chazelle07222009.html
Oh, my goodness! Thanks to Teddy Partridge, skdadl, Loo Hoo, kynn, Mary and Boxturtle, too, for your best wishes. I’ll be glowing like a candle all day.
fatster, honey, as Mae West always used to say, goodness has nothing to do with it. *wink wink*
Some excellent points are made here, in addition to the Colbert piece.
Stephen Colbert on Chuck Todd and torture investigations
Glenn Greenwald
WEDNESDAY JULY 22, 2009 07:23 EDT
“Amazingly, reports that Eric Holder is considering commencing an investigation into Bush-era torture crimes has created extreme consternation in multiple Beltway circles despite how narrow and limited those investigations would be. As I wrote last week, numerous reports indicate that Holder wants to replicate the Abu Ghraib travesty by investigating only low-level interrogators who exceeded the torture limits approved by John Yoo and George Bush, and not investigate the high-level policy makers who instituted the criminal torture regime or the DOJ lawyers who authorized it. ”
Link.
Like Stalin’s show trials. I’m sure that will work out real well in this age of liveblogging.
Fatster
Let me join in the birthday wishes. May another whistleblower get discovery in your honor today!
“Eventually, the Fellowship would count some of the military’s top leaders among its members. They include former Joint Chiefs Chairman General David Jones, Joint Chiefs chairman General Richard Myers, former Marine Corps Commandant and current NATO commander General James L. Jones, Iran-contra figure Marine Lt. Col. Oliver North, and, perhaps even more controversial than North, Army Lt. Gen. William “Jerry” Boykin, the military head of Defense Secretary Rumsfeld’s intelligence branch.
In 2003, Boykin, in a speech to the First Baptist Church in Daytona Beach, Florida, referred to the United States as a “Christian nation” and, that in reference to a Somali warlord, he stated, “ I knew that my God was bigger than his. I knew that my God was a real God and his was an idol.”
The reverberations of Boykin’s comments were felt around the world. But his allies and Fellowship compatriots, Rumsfeld, Myers, Kansas Representative Todd Tiahrt, and most important, George W. Bush, refused to condemn him. Calls for Boykin’s reassignment when unheeded.
Soon afterwards, Boykin’s Pentagon intelligence group was discovered to have been involved with the torture and sexual molestation of prisoners in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. The sexual molestation of prisoners included male and female teens being held in Iraq.”
“Expose:Christian Mafia”,Insider Magazine,2005
“a Christian nation” makes me sick. We are a nation to be feared for our ruthless and brutal ways
“Whitened sepulchres”,Leen.Having a form of godliness…..
: THE “CHRISTIAN” MAFIA
The term “Christian Mafia” is what several Washington politicians have termed the major conspirators and it is not intended to debase Christians or infer …
http://www.insider-magazine.com/ChristianMafia.htm – Cached – Similar
This was written long before Shalet’s book.
BEST article I’ve EVER read on the subject-and I bought Sharlet’s book,btw.
Do you know if the Fellowship referred to in the article is part of or connected to The Family, which operates out of the infamous C Street “house of
adulterersworship” that has been in the news lately?The Fellowship and the Family are two names for the same group.
Happy birthday, Fatster!
ditto..hope you are doing something special
@97
Mason,it’s the very SAME organization.
“The Fellowship and Doug Coe reached out to the most radical elements in the Islamic world, including members of the Saudi royal elite who bankrolled Osama Bin Laden and his Al Qaeda followers.
According to the Los Angeles Times, as early as 1979, Coe had a special relationship with the Saudis when he arranged a meeting between a Pentagon official and the Saudi Minister of Commerce.
In 1988, Saudi ambassador to the United States, Prince Bandar bin Saud, read passages from the Koran at the National Prayer Breakfast. This was at a time the Afghan mujaheddin was coming under the radical influences of Saudi Wahhabis through the “good offices” of Osama bin Laden and other radicals.
Coe and his Cedars members also kept in close touch with such Muslim leaders as Presidents Suharto and Megawati Sukarnaputri of Indonesia, General Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan, Hamid Karzai of Afghanistan, Mohammed Siad Barre of Somalia (who offered Coe that he would convert to Christianity from Islam if he could be assured of U.S. weapons sales to combat aggression from Soviet-armed Ethiopia), Kuwaiti officials, and even Saddam Hussein. At the same time, Coe heaped praise on the “covenants” Bin Laden, as well as Hitler, established with their respective followers.
“Expose:Christian Mafia”,Insider Magazine,2005
Best wishes to fatster.
Anybody know what happened to plunger?
I don’t get to blog as much as I used to anymore,darn it,and I haven’t seen his handle here recently.
plunger’s handle still pops up sporatically, though not often enough.
*blush*. Many thanks emptywheel, Mason, Leen and Gitcheegumee. Yes, may whistle blowers reign and their numbers continue to increase.
Great analysis Mary, but no money will ever be tracked.
Very similar shenanigans occurred in the early ’70s in Chile, with the Nixon/Kissinger CIA funneling money to right-wing thugs to harrass and ultimately depose the democratically elected President, Salvador Allende.
Do understand Obama sent Kissinger to Russia ( I believe that was where he sent him) shortly after Obama took office to represent his new administration. NOW IN THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH..of the Obama admin….Special State Dept Special Envoy is none other than Henry Kissinger.
Odd Move for a democratic administration , don’t you think?
The same Kissinger that the 9/11 families fought to have removed from the head of the 9/11 commission..and who’s nick name is “THE BUTCHER OF CAMBODIA”
And Geithner was a 3 year protege of Kissinger after graduating college.
Yes, it’s odd that Kissinger would be involved in anything this administration does, and yet not odd at all.
Some of the debris we’re dealing with here isn’t the obvious war crimes of the last 8 years. We’re dealing with the Russians’ baggage in Afghanistan because we’re using the same henchmen. How do we take out the trash and expose some sunlight on this mess without also pants-ing the Russians?
Could be one more reason why Obama made such a concerted effort during his recent trip to Russia to appear to avoid Putin while being visible with Medvedev, another reason to put a kind of firewall between past and future.
I don’t want to break any patriotic fool’s heart but I was only in Vietnam less than two weeks when I witnessed my first massacre of unarmed civilians.
I witnessed two more massacres before the end of my tour. They were unarmed. There was no tracer fire from armed people. They were pure and simply cold blooded murder. I am so ashamed of having served a people that would put up with that that I cannot describe my emotions.
Yeah, sure as shit they did it and we paid for it.
That poor guy the Afghans have makes me cry every night because he is going to pay for this for the rest of his life and he probably was a patriot, too. I was so proud when I boarded that plane at McChord Air Base heading to Vietnam. I would serve my country even if it was in a war that I opposed completely. Don’t worry I’ve paid for forty years of no sleep, nightmares, violence, alcohol, drugs, pure hell.
I would swap places in a hot flash with the prisoner if I could only find the people who could arrange a swap.
be careful what you wish for
what you describe is exactly reversed in the life history of john mcstain
we can’t go back
all we can do is face today wiser than we were yesterday
Take care of yourself. All the things we didn’t learn in Vietnam, even with such horrible costs. Whether you believe in them or not, I’ll send some prayers your way.
I pray, too, that the Taliban will decide that their best use of the soldier they have taken is to treat him well and keep publicizing that they are treating him well. But no matter how well they treat him, the fear will still be there for him to live through every minute.
(((((regulararmyfool))))))
oh baby, please take good care of yourself. i’m so glad you’re posting here with us.
Well, you broke my heart, raf, and I’m not even a Merkin. You take care of yourself, and respect yourself for the decency of your reactions to things you saw that you couldn’t control. The world needs more of you.
There are so many of your kind, the walking wounded whose psychic injuries don’t show. If you feel you must pay penance after all these years of torment, you can share with us as you now have, so that we can say we were told and warned and then it’s our burden to learn from the past.
My uncle served in Vietnam; he was a happy-go-lucky guy before he left, my favorite uncle because he was such a fun person to be with. After he came back nearly forty years ago, he wasn’t the same man. Never, ever has been. It was as if a shutter went down across him that we could never lift. The war has been something we could never talk about; he shies away from the topic, as if to keep the shutter down firmly.
It feels like we have been shut out, and it also feels like he can’t let himself get past whatever happened. The burden must be horrible; I don’t think he realizes we have been living with it, too.
You did serve your country, and you served it well. I am deeply ashamed and angry that your country did not serve you well, you and many others of our generation who lost so much in ‘Nam. I hope you know there are many of us who do honor you and appreciate the sacrifices you have made, and continue to make. We will keep you close in our hearts and prayers all our days.
Poignant post.
I have given much thought as to how to respond .
This much I know…even God can’t change the past.
But with God’s help,and the blogging community,perhaps we can change the future.
NEVER doubt that your suffering has been or will be for naught.
Nor that you have the sincerest appreciation of MANY for your humanity,after all the inhumanity you have endured and witnessed.
Now I feel pretty stupid, having come back here to put up another comment on freakin jeans.
Well, fwiw, here it is/was:
Mike Spann was conducting his interrogations wearing – jeans.
SAS forces arrived at Qali-i Jangi and fought in – jeans.
That in addition to the Berntsen pictures.
http://www.time.com/time/natio…..-2,00.html
Actual footage of some of the battle at Qali-i Sharif
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..38;search=
Designer jeans or just . . . jeans?
His commanding officer had the audacity to say to the press that he hopes the Taliban kill him because he left his post while on duty. He was supposedly drinking and wandered away. The CO quickly qualified what he said by stating, “if the reports I have are true.”
That must have comforted his freaked out family and friends back home.
I was mistaken. The comment was yesterday by Lt. Col. Ralph Peters, a Fox News Analyst.
Sorry for the mistake.