Big Auto Musical Chairs

Okay, I didn’t see this one coming.

General Motors is staring imminent bankruptcy dead in the eye:

In April, the automaker drew another $2 billion and has said it would expect to need another $2.6 billion from the U.S. Treasury before the June 1 deadline. That would take GM’s debt to the U.S. government to $18 billion.

GM has asked its three major creditor groups to write off at least $43 billion in debt in exchange for ownership stakes in a restructured company.

GM bondholders, who are owed $27 billion, have also been offered new stock in exchange for writing off debt in a bond exchange the automaker launched last week.

GM is targeting a reduction of at least $24 billion, or 90 percent, of its bond debt under the plan and has warned that it could be forced into bankruptcy if that cannot be achieved.

Read the entire article, it is a bleak picture for the General.

Good golly that sounds dire, I wonder what new ideas are afoot to reign in the size and voracious appetite for spending at GM? Well, glad you asked, because they want to acquire a significant stake in Fiat!

Four years after paying $2 billion to extricate itself from a partnership with Fiat, General Motors is seeking a stake in the Italian automaker in exchange for its Latin American and European operations.

General Motors is eager to cede control of its money-losing Opel unit in Germany. But Fiat has also expressed interest in G.M.’s other European operations as well as its historically profitable Latin American business, though the possible terms of such a deal have not been discussed publicly.

G.M., despite its precarious financial position, now feels it has a bargaining chip with its Latin American unit, and is negotiating with Fiat over what it might get in return.

But G.M. executives are holding out for at least 30 percent of the Fiat Auto Group, according to these people, who said they were not authorized to comment publicly because the discussions are fluid.

Fiat. You know, the same Fiat that is supposedly saving Chrysler by merging with it. A merger, by the way that is effectively being subsidized by the bailout funds from the US taxpayers. And they are going to cut a deal with GM, who is surviving almost exclusively by the good graces of the US taxpayer.

And here is a nice little kicker, Fiat is looking for a bailout from the German government to assist them with the floundering Opel division they would pick up from GM in the putative deal:

Mr. Marchionne has suggested that closing down plants isn’t a realistic option in Europe, where many workers are shielded by contracts that make it costly for companies to lay off workers. During a recent conference call with analysts, Mr. Marchionne said he preferred cutting back production at some plants rather than shutting them down entirely.

Fiat is also likely to seek government aid from Berlin to prop up the potential alliance while Fiat retools Opel’s operations, according to a person familiar with the matter. Fiat, which is saddled with €6.6 billion, or $8.8 billion, in debt, doesn’t have the money to finance potential partners. Mr. Marchionne refused to put money into its alliance with Chrysler, swapping Fiat technology for a 20% stake in the Detroit auto maker.

Now, in fairness, on paper these moves don’t necessarily look as silly as you might think, there are at least plausibly achievable goals behind the musical chairs. Maybe. (I am still not really sold on the viability of Fiat/Chrysler though). But it is a bit curious that all this wheeling n dealing is being contemplated on the public dole. I wonder what Obama and those genius auto Wall Street czars think?

58 replies
  1. bobschacht says:

    Thanks for bringing this to our attention, bmaz.

    Somehow I don’t think this is playing out the way Obama had in mind.
    He better watch out or he’ll be known as the President who Killed Detroit.

    Bob in HI

  2. prostratedragon says:

    He better watch out or he’ll be known as the President who Killed Detroit.

    No lie. I just had a grandpa (Moonstruck) moment, you know, where he drops his oblivious façade just long enough to burst into tears and sob “I don’t understand!”

    Actually I sort of do, as I suspect grandpa did —it looks like they’re getting ready to swap deals, or plants, or some such thing in-kind. But doing it in public and in the context of all this bailing out does seem rather bold. Which was probably grandpa’s problem, too.

  3. CTuttle says:

    Dayam…! Fiat is dipping into a lot of public troughs… I wonder how the Germans will feel about subsidizing the Italians…!

  4. 4jkb4ia says:

    Courtesy of the Focus Group Interface we have an official GM financial situation update. This article claims that GM is looking for $11.5 billion from the feds.

    The stake in Fiat thing sounds absolutely desperate especially since Fiat wants to take Opel from them. OTOH if Opel would be part of the “good GM” by having a stake in Fiat GM can still enjoy some of the income from that company.

  5. perris says:

    so gm sells opel, fiat buys opel, gm buys fiat.

    BRILLIANT

    since I first drove fiat made the very worst, most unreliable cars ever, more unreliable then british lealand

    I have no idea if they’re making a better product right now but taking on fiat is not a good idea for any manufacturer

    • Knut says:

      We rented a small Fiat a year ago to tour the Amalfi Coast. It was fine, and went like hell on the freeway to Naples. My guess is that it is about average for European cars in that range, which on the whole seem to me to be slightly better than Japanese cars.

  6. TarheelDem says:

    Lemme see. How many miles of bicycle trail would $18 billion buy?

    It seems the financial boys who ran GM into the ground are still in charge (well not the same people, but the same attitudes).

    Why is it that investing in putting people to work making things is off the table in so many companies?

    Well, the next fight will be Stimulus – Round 2. That’s after the dust has settled on the appropriations bills (now already inadequate) and healthcare reform (no optimism there either but something will get passed so Congress and the President can say “We did it.”)

  7. klynn says:

    You know, I thought this change just about 6 weeks ago was interesting considering present news.

    Frank Asbeck had said last fall that SolarWorld was ready to take over troubled GM’s German subsidiary and transform it into an eco-friendly automaker. But Asbeck tells the German newspaper Die Welt that conditions have changed significantly since he first expressed interest in Adam Opel GmbH.

    Bonn-based SolarWorld had planned in November to offer GM about $350 million, plus $945 million in credit lines, for four German plants and Opel’s development center and headquarters.

    GM never expressed interest. A spokeswoman said in November that Opel was not for sale.

    And then this back in March as well:

    FRANKFURT (AP) — Employees at German carmaker Adam Opel GmbH, a unit of struggling General Motors Corp., said Friday they wanted to join Opel dealers in buying a stake in the company.

    Klaus Franz, the Opel workers’ representative, said employees are in favor of joining dealers in an attempt to buy a 25 percent stake, a blocking minority which would give them a say in company decisions.

    After a meeting with employees in Ruesselsheim on Friday, Franz did not provide more details about the proposal, but said any investment is contingent on employees’ pay remaining at current levels.

    Franz said workers would be open to negotiations during the next round of talks on wages, vacation pay and Christmas bonuses.

    On Thursday, German Opel dealers said they were in favor of splitting off the Adam Opel GmbH unit from parent General Motors Corp. and grounding an independent Opel of Germany with headquarters in Ruesselsheim.

    After all of that change, the German government has given this list to Fiat:

    The FT has also obtained the checklist of criteria that any potential deal will have to fulfil in order to have any chance of receiving loan guarantees by the German government, which would provide the lion’s share of the loan guarantees supplied by the various European governments that play host to GM Europe plants. The checklist was drawn up by Germany’s vice-chancellor Frank-Walter Steinmeier to ensure it represents the interests of the German taxpayer and Opel’s German workforce. While on examination the list is a sensible checklist of what should be examined from Opel and the German government’s point of view before any deal is approved, it also confirms the sheer multitude of obstacles that need to be overcome for any deal between the two companies to be agreed. The questions over who would own Opel’s patents and intellectual property appears to be particularly thorny.

    The full list of criteria is as follows (as reported by the FT):

    * A solid and sustainable business concept.
    * Synergies and additional market opportunities.
    * Complexity (would the concept require European Commission approval?)
    * Who would own Opel’s patents and intellectual property?
    * The number of jobs under threat.
    * The credibility of the buyer’s international strategy.
    * Location of future headquarters and where taxes would be paid.
    * The impact of the transaction and eventual restructuring on German suppliers to Opel.
    * The credibility of Opel’s future management.
    * The degree of support from Opel’s workforce and stakeholders.
    * The experience of the buyer in closing similar transactions and managing large corporate entities.
    * Financial solidity of the transaction.
    * Contractual conditions.
    * The compatibility of corporate cultures between Opel and buyer.

    It would be nice to know why GM walked away from the combination of SolorWorld and employee ownership?

    • ThingsComeUndone says:

      Great Comment didn’t Opel have a lot of GM’s green research? I think thats why SolarWorld wanted it is GM handing Germany or Fiat their Green Tech?

      • klynn says:

        Yep, but here’s the kicker in all of this and I hope EW encorporates it into her auto post:

        General Motors unveiled the European version of its Chevrolet Volt at the 2009 Geneva Motor Show today and all we can say is how come they get the best-looking sibling!

        The two extended-range, plug-in hybrids are the same under the skin, but the Opel Ampera, well, a picture really can be worth a thousand words. Take a look at both (that’s the Volt below) and we’ll bet most of you agree with us that, from the front at least, the Opel is by far the better-looking car.

        It will be sold in most of Europe starting in 2011 while Vauxhall, GM’s British unit, will build and market a right-hand-drive version for the U.K. starting in 2012 (providing GM and its European marques are still a team and still around then). The Volt is slated to launch at the end of 2010.

        So, did we just give the Volt away to a foreign manufacturer? So much for US owned green jobs. Or, does this means GM will really hold the green car revolution for the US and possibly, the world?

        • 4jkb4ia says:

          Well, if it is Fiat-Chrysler-Opel then a) it is more of an American joint venture than a foreign company, b) it will be sold overseas, and c) foreign electric car competition appears likely in the next 10 years.

  8. alank says:

    When the too big to fail entrepreneurial concerns are floated billions by the commies in Washington, well, there’s a lot of wheeling and dealing to be getting on with. Bring it on! they say. Mission accomplished™.

  9. plunger says:

    In the business schools of ancient Rome, they referred to such a transaction as “Circus Jerkus Maximus.”

    Today we just refer to it as another form of stimulus.

    Either way, if they build it they will come.

  10. Knut says:

    Nice work if you can get it. Why did I talk myself into being a mere academic economist rather than a fast-deal card shark? This is what happens when there is too much executive unemployment. Idle hands and devil’s work.

  11. ferrarimanf355 says:

    … and this is why my object of desire switched from a Chevrolet Camaro to a Ford Mustang. You know, it might be because Ford isn’t taking any bailout money and might survive 2009…

  12. klynn says:

    Hey bmaz, you know, there are a great deal of crossover concepts from your The Value Of The Hometeam post and this post!

  13. ratcityreprobate says:

    I know there is some Canadian group that has expressed some interest in Opel but have no idea if they are for real. It strikes me that unless GM and German Gov. have somebody else besides FIAT (read Japanese) talking to them that FIAT holds all the cards in these negotiations. Look at the deal that FIAT struck with Chrysler and Obama, we are essentially paying them to take Chrysler.

  14. i4u2bi says:

    A tip for our prez that he will never see or maybe even care…it’s a million years old saying. If you lie down with dogs you will get their fleas. Git yer head outta yer butt Mr Obama and befriend the Progressives, they will save our capital system and maybe your political butt.

  15. fatster says:

    O/T a couple of headlines this am:

    Rove Lawyer: Likely Early June For US Attorneys Testimony
    By Zachary Roth – May 7, 2009, 9:08AM

    http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpoi…..hp?ref=fp2

    http://tinyurl.com/dc5ftl

    Experts Say Authors Of Memos May Avoid Professional Sanctions
    By Carrie Johnson
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, May 7, 2009

    “Law professors and legal practitioners who have handled such cases said the difficulty of gathering witnesses and evidence could present “nearly insurmountable challenges” for state investigators who may wish to pursue a case against the lawyers, John C. Yoo and Jay S. Bybee.”

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..82_pf.html

    http://tinyurl.com/dxejb6

  16. ThingsComeUndone says:

    Mr. Marchionne has suggested that closing down plants isn’t a realistic option in Europe, where many workers are shielded by contracts that make it costly for companies to lay off workers. During a recent conference call with analysts, Mr. Marchionne said he preferred cutting back production at some plants rather than shutting them down entirely.

    The German government wants those Opel plants to keep going they offered to buy Opel with Solarworld a German Solar firm to produce a green car months ago.
    Just why would the German government pay Fiat to close down German Jobs?
    Something is missing

  17. fatster says:

    from the worker perspective:

    North Carolina Autoworkers Protesting NAFTA
    Published 05/06/09 Dustin Ensinger

    ‘”We’re losing manufacturing jobs. We’ve lost textile jobs – now that’s all gone to China,” Troy Friday, a representative of the United Auto Workers Local 5286 in Gastonia told The Gaston Gazette. “We feel like NAFTA and other trade treaties are hurting the American workers.” ’
    . . . . . . .
    “In the U.S. the average factory worker earns roughly $18 per hour. His Mexican counterpart, on the other hand, makes just $3 per hour on average. “
    . . . . . . . .
    “The U.S. had a small trade surplus with Mexico in 1993 before signing onto NAFTA. By 2007, 14 years after signing NAFTA, that surplus turned into a $91 billion deficit with Mexico.”

  18. ThingsComeUndone says:

    Is Fiat’s small car making tech really so valuable that the can get Chrysler for free and instead of paying GM cash which they need they can give GM stock in Fiat for their South American plants?
    Toyota is sitting on a ton of cash but Detroit won’t deal with them?
    Or Toyota won’t deal with them?

    • emptywheel says:

      THe point is who is complementary, not who has cash. Toyota has no big reason (aside form preserving the supply chain) to give its tech to GM, since they compete in all the same markets and same segments. That’s not true of Fiat–and what MArchionne is doing is building a business that has the global footprint to be competitive.

  19. emptywheel says:

    Oh, and anyway–just saying hi. I’m in the airport waiting for mr. ew to pick me up to drive across Canada to Syracuse. So bmaz is still in charge all day (thanks bmaz).

    If you’re in Ontario, wave as I drive by today!!

  20. emptywheel says:

    Oh, and other news. I’m fairly certain that Ed Montgomery, Car Recovery Czar, was on my plane (didn’t figure out who he was until too late to interview him).

    I knew he was going to be in MI this week, but I thought it was earlier in the week.

    So at least the Admin is working overtime trying to help out MI from a services perspective.

  21. SkepticRising says:

    Y’know, it may be that this pattern demonstrates the real and on-going issue with the automotive industry. The management, from far being captains of industry, simply suck at their jobs.

  22. behindthefall says:

    This is going to be like the German High Command trying to figure out where the U.S.Army was going to go next: “Wo ist Patton?” Where is EW going to get the next scoop based on preternaturally close reading of some obscure document? OMG! She’s in Syracuse! What’s in Syracuse! Why aren’t you guys up there already!

  23. 4jkb4ia says:

    OK, now I have the paper in my hand. Before anyone else got to it,
    Opel is losing money so probably would not be part of the good GM. I should have remembered
    Fiat and GM had an alliance earlier in the decade and it did not go well:
    “Fiat engineers said G.M. was too cautious and unwilling to embrace new technology that would have created cleaner, more fuel-efficient engines…Opel engineers became convinced that Fiat didn’t share its focus on detail or quality standards.”

  24. klynn says:

    And what’s with the Manga deal?

    MONTREAL (AFP) — Magna, the Austrian-Canadian car parts manufacturer, confirmed Monday that it was in talks that might see it take a minority stake in German automaker Opel.

    Magna said it was holding talks with Opel, General Motors and German government officials regarding “potential alternatives for the future of Opel, which could include Magna taking a minority stake in Opel.”

    But it said in a statement that there was “no assurance” of any transaction resulting from the talks.

    Magna’s chief executive Frank Stronach said in a newspaper interview last week that his company wanted to help Opel but had no plans to acquire a direct stake.

    • karnak12 says:

      ummm… you might want to be careful with your typo there. It’s “Magna”. “Manga” is a totally different thing. Nothing to do with automobile manufacturing.

      • klynn says:

        Oh you are so right. And with kids in my house, the typo was unintentional but not surprising. There Manga books all over my house! Thankfully, my link made it clear what I was talking about, Magna, not Manga!

  25. klynn says:

    If GM can pull this off and hold on to the Opel Ampra, then GM should form an alliance with SolarWorld or OPEL International to come up with the next generation of PV cells that are integrated on the roof of cars for solar charging while the car sits parked outside.

    That was SolarWorld’s hope at least.

  26. ichbineinberliner says:

    SolarWorld is an, in comparison, small company (less than one billion euro turnover). Their bid for Opel was more of a marketing stunt.

  27. radiofreewill says:

    About 20 years ago, I regularly visited a part of the State that had a heavy concentration of Textile Mill Towns. These Mills had no Unions, but the workers ‘didn’t care’ because the factories were steady running all the time.

    A burgeoning white Middle Class had begun to emerge in the communities that served the Mills. The need for services – such as lawncare and landscaping steadily increased, too.

    But a pervasive air of ‘cheapness’ ran through these communities. As far as I know, only the Mill Management was working towards a retirement. The Mill Hands were only working towards pay-day – once they were ‘used up,’ they were kicked to the side and forgotten.

    But, without a whit of self-awareness, these Mill Workers were ‘cheap,’ too. They were more than willing to ‘look the other way’ at hispanic illegal immigrants in the lawncare business – because they were the lowest ‘cost.’

    The hispanics worked hard for less, and the Mill Workers didn’t have to worry about their Mill jobs, either, because the illegals weren’t Citizens.

    By the time I first visited the area, the County Health Departments were over-flowing with hispanic mothers, and children, who couldn’t speak English. The Health Departments didn’t have enough translators, and the lines were long, all day long.

    And, all those mothers were holding natural-born Citizens in their arms, too.

    Taxes were going up to pay for new schools, busses, teachers, roads, water and sewer, and more County Services. The Middle Class was ‘paying’ for its ‘cheapness’ without even realizing it – they never stopped patronizing the (illegal) discount services providers.

    And then the unthinkable happened – the Mill Management started hiring the natural-Citizen children of the illegals – at substantially lower pay rates!

    The white Middle Class started rapidly shrinking as the hispanic Lower Class became the New Middle Class. All the while, the Mill Owners kept getting the benefit – raking in the profits – of the Class struggle for their jobs.

    And, by the time wages began to move up for the new Mill Hands (at this point, the street signs had spanish sub-titles) – NAFTA let the Mill Owners move their Mills directly to Mexico, where the Mill Owners could work their Class-warfare-for-jobs Mojo all over again – leaving the previous Mill Towns in my State destroyed.

    Capitalism needs Unions and a Commitment from Our Politicians not to ship Our Jobs Out-of-Country to the lowest bidder, if there is to be a True Partnership and Fairness of Opportunity for both Owners and Workers in America.

    The ‘Cheapness’ mind-set keeps the Clever-and-Scheming Owners rich, while keeping the Dull-and-Under-Valued Workers down – and paying for the ‘Cheapness’ every step of the way, without ever realizing it, until it’s too late.

    If We are going to Pay to Save the Mill Owners in Detroit, then, this time, let’s Stand Up, Educate Each Other and Demand Fairness – not Cheapness – for the Workers, too!

    Or, the next Mill Town might be yours…

  28. earlofhuntingdon says:

    Actually, I think this is the sort of exchange of assets that the minds at GM would have come up with without federal money. A piece of da action at Fiat in exchange for it taking on GM Europe and Latin America? Not bad.

    Properly structured, they are more survivable than the US ops alone, though not if GM unloads excess (i.e., low-value) assets and excessive debt. Even with puts, that strategy failed miserably with Delphi, which is in its third year under bankruptcy protection. (It has nowhere to go until GM’s future is decided.)

    Since the US taxpayer is footing a big piece of this tab, it ought to know and participate in decisions regarding these proposals – and what GM’s stellar management intends to do with its other assets, notably GM China, GM’s Shanghai technology center, and [GM] Holdens in Australia. (Nothing else in Asia makes money, though its investments do hold valuable rights.)

  29. hctomorrow says:

    This is all so utterly hilarious.

    GM and Chrysler run themselves into the ground for decades, to the point where we have to save them with tens of billions of taxpayer dollars to avert our complete economic doom.

    Then GM and Chrysler use financial wizardry and a foreign company to effectively form one giant Mediocre Car Consortium, thus becoming even more Too Big to Fail for the next round of corporate welfare/bailouts, and walk away in bankruptcy court having burned through all the taxpayer money.

    Oh, after firing a ton of union workers and slashing the pay and benefits for everyone who gets to stay.

    I’m not sure who, exactly, wins here. Investors lose, the unions lose, the bondholders lose, the taxpayers lose, their competitors who didn’t destroy themselves, both foreign and domestic, lose…. I guess the board members we haven’t sacked get to keep their 7 figure salaries and keep destroying the world?

    Hooray!

  30. bmaz says:

    Well that is all fairly much unsupported huffing and puffing. What evidence have you that this is a horrible deal that is proposed? My only concern is what the details are and that the government signs off on it since they are th juice in GM and Chrysler/Fiat now. As EW alluded to above @31, the question is how the details are really structured, but there are certainly scenarios where the idea is a win win and smart collaboration and allocation of resources. It is a little early for histrionics.

  31. jhwoodyatt says:

    It’s at times like this that I wish Tom Lehrer was still actively writing satire.

  32. hctomorrow says:

    Unsupported how?

    Is it not a fact that, under the proposed Chrysler bankruptcy, bondholders could lose 70% or more? Yes, it is. (Though of course some have CDS that will happily bail them out at additional taxpayer expense through our cutout, AIG.) That the unions have to trade their debt for equity in a company circling the drain? They most certainly do! What about mass layoffs and benefit cuts, did I imagine reading about those too? Nope. Right here, as it turns out.

    Will Chrysler in fact be walking away with over 7 billion dollars in US bailout money? Computer says, ‘Yes!’Will it take many years to get our GM loans back, if we ever do, and that return is predicated on the idea that GM is consistently profitable for the medium term future? Computer says, ‘Yes!’

    What about GM firing tens of thousands of union workers? Again, the answer is yes.

    I always supported keeping GM and Chrysler afloat, myself; the problem here is precisely the same one we see, on a larger scale of course, with the bank bailouts. The taxpayer takes all of the risk, gets none of the upside, the Masters of the Universe stay in power, and the average worker or taxpayer gets the shaft. In other words, we return to status quo ante bailout, ready for the next catastrophe engineered by our financial wizard overlords.

    For the record, I was trying to be humorous with my comment, not alarmist. Quite frankly I do find this whole situation blackly funny. These deals remind me of nothing so much as Lex Luthor-style comic book supervillainy. (At this point all we need is a crashed UFO from a far off world and we’re set.)

    But I do thank you for assuming I was uninformed, as well as the smug, condescending tone.

    • bmaz says:

      GM and Chrysler run themselves into the ground for decades, to the point where we have to save them with tens of billions of taxpayer dollars to avert our complete economic doom.

      First off, you equate GM with Chrysler. That is a false paradigm, they are in completely different situations and for different reasons. Chrysler might resemble your statement; GM, however, has always been profitable until quite recently, and still would be but for the financial crisis that locked up credit, both theirs and their customers. When they can’t get reasonable short term financing, and people cannot get financing to buy their cars, that is a perfect storm. Had Ford not have restructured and leveraged maximally ahead of time they would arguably be in the same boat, and even so they are losing money wildly currently. So are the supposed gold standards such as Toyota and Honda. GM for that matter was in such a precarious position because about five years ago they truly set about a plan to restructure and reorient the company. The simple fact is that they were doing exactly what needed to be done and were starting to produce extremely high quality products that are now becoming more and more visible. It is a slow and painstaking process and they got caught in the middle of it. To blithely say they were still being “run into the ground” though is marginally uninformed.

      Then GM and Chrysler use financial wizardry and a foreign company to effectively form one giant Mediocre Car Consortium, thus becoming even more Too Big to Fail for the next round of corporate welfare/bailouts, and walk away in bankruptcy court having burned through all the taxpayer money.

      Again you have made a bunch of gross generalizations that are not necessarily supported by extant facts. What do you mean”financial wizardry”? That is bloated rhetoric. In the first place the very thin facts in existence to date, contained in the articles linked, do not show any “wizardry”, it shows the type og shifting of assets between potential partners to attempt to maximize the positions of both. Is it feasible and will it work – there are simply not enough facts and circumstances known yet to make that call, yet you bluster to do so.

      Oh, after firing a ton of union workers and slashing the pay and benefits for everyone who gets to stay.

      Yes many workers have been lost. What exactly was the alternative you proposed? Keeping them all for a couple of months so that the thing went down the shitter? I assume you also know that much was literally ordered by the government.

      I’m not sure who, exactly, wins here. Investors lose, the unions lose, the bondholders lose, the taxpayers lose, their competitors who didn’t destroy themselves, both foreign and domestic, lose…. I guess the board members we haven’t sacked get to keep their 7 figure salaries and keep destroying the world?

      Again, I haven’t seen your suggested workable alternative. It was, and is, a desperate situation. As I said in the post, I am not real sure about the efficacy of the Fiat/Chrysler combination. I am not crazy about it, but it is the only shot Chrysler has, and it was the decision of the Obama Administration. I don’t see real risk to GM on the Fiat collaboration if they are secured as to the BM Latin American part; i.e. if the fiat deal goes down the tubes, GM gets the Latin operations back. The rest of it they don’t want anyway at this point.

      I did think you were somewhat uninformed, but certainly not ignorant; and I meant no smugness or condescension.

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