Cheney Plans to Continue to Manufacture Intelligence
By now you’ve heard Cheney’s claim that he asked the CIA to declassify all the great intelligence we got from waterboarding and Greg Sargent’s earlier report that Cheney hadn’t asked the CIA directly for those documents.
Greg Sargent has an update that explains how the former Fourth Branch intends to get them, now that he’s a withering vine.
That whole question of whether Dick Cheney asked the CIA to declassify and release intelligence supposedly proving that the torture worked? Turns out Cheney made the request through the National Archives, a spokesperson for the archives confirms.
That means that we may, in fact, see the documents that Cheney claims will demonstrate that the Bush torture program collected a whole bunch of useful intelligence, though it may take awhile.
National Archives spokesperson Susan Cooper confirms that Cheney did submit a request for unspecified documents on March 31st. Cooper said that the National Archives had asked the relevant agency — she wouldn’t say which one, but there’s little reason to doubt that it’s the CIA — for the relevant documents this morning.
Cooper confirmed that the docs Cheney asked for were in fact classified. Keep in mind we have no way of knowing what Cheney actually asked for or whether they really say what Cheney claims. It’s now up to the CIA to make the determination whether to declassify the docs Cheney wants. So this could get very, very interesting in various ways.
Remember why Cheney and the National Archives have been in the news of late–the report that, contrary to plan, Cheney decided to keep all his materials at the Archives rather than send them to Dallas to put in Bush’s Library. He needs the materials close, you see, so he can access them for his memoirs.
Now, the date of Cheney’s request for CIA documents–March 31, well before it was clear whether the OLC memos would be declassified–suggests Cheney’s request has everything to do with his memoirs and nothing to do with the release of the OLC memos.
So Cheney’s call to declassify these documents has nothing to do with a real debate about the torture. It is Cheney’s attempt to use those documents to continue creating a myth that his torture did anything to keep this country safe.
Obama announces he’s leaving the decision as to prosecute Bush administration officials for torture to AG Holder.
It’s a red letter day for future inmate George Bush!
I hope you’re right. However, Holder has disappointed before.
Boxturtle (Will believe it when Bush is charged.)
And Greg Sargent directs readers to a really good question from Jamison Foser:
And further, why didn’t Bush/Cheney allow the Brits to reveal these very same documents in the case of tortured detainee Binyam Mohamed, instead of threatening Britain with the “re-evaluation” of sharing intelligence with Britain?
Has any REAL reporter had the opportunity to ask Cheney ANYTHING, much less get an ANSWER?
Congrats to Ailes and Murdoch, they’re selling our entire nation for a bag of sheckels.
These are documents that were in Cheney’s possession.
These are not the entire “universe” of documents that the CIA and others have in their possession.
Given Cheney’s repeatedly and consistently proven habit on insisting on reporting that meets his pre-conceived views, these are likely documents that Cheney had “stove-piped” to prove he is always right.
For examples of previous “proof” that Cheney still proclaims:
1. Saddam Hussein had WMD at the time of the start of the Iraq War.
2. Saddam Hussein was behind the 9/11 attacks.
3. Saddam Hussein was in bed with Al Qaeda.
4. Warrantless wiretapping under the TSP gave Britain advance notice to the London Subway bombings.
And many more.
Cheney’s collection of documents is like having a 2-3 pieces of a 10,000 piece puzzle, and claiming to authoritatively know what the puzzle looks like and means.
Shorter MadDog: Dick’s back at cherrypicking his sources.
It wouldn’t surprise me if “all” of those reports Cheney wants were the ones where the FBI (and CIA) “initiated” investigations.
But not the FBI (and CIA) reports that then “closed” the investigations as wild-goose chases and other sundry nonsense. Cheney isn’t interested in those.
And some more questions…
Cheney and Rove spitted on television yesterday night and today that the release of the memos hurt national security was interesting in light of Cheney insisting there are “the proof” docs. I would think showing docs that prove torture (I thought it was not torture according to them) prevented attacks on the US would be a problem. Any document that is about “preventing attacks on the US” should be docs that would violate national security, period.
Furthermore, I’m with John Stewart. After a while, I think the detainees being tortured (KSM) figured out they were not going to be killed, so they could say anything.
klynn, KSM, al Katani, and Zubaydah all confessed to everything under the sun and I don’t think Cheney’s crew were smart enough to sort out the real from the fantasy.
Oh I know. That was the beauty of the simple logic of John Stewart’s comment. In other words, they got crap.
And if the info WAS so valuable, why destroy the tapes showing the confession to such high value information? How about showing us the tapes rather than requesting classified docs?
Wonder if Cheney has already instructed his CIA buddies not to declassify? His eyes look frightened to me. (with all this torture truth coming out, those Arabs in Dubai might not welcome Cheney anymore)
Bush to China’s Head Man, “Can I come live with you?”
Marcie, remember when Bush said that it would take 40 years before anybody could figure out what all went on in that oval office? hee,hee,hee – he never met a Real Wheel,huh?
The biggest thing that bothers me (and should bother us all) about this Cheney PR “ploy” is:
It removes the focus from “torture is a crime” and instead tries to shift the public discourse to “ends justify means”.
And The Villagers just continue to lap it up!
let the villagers “Lap It Up”
the villagers are getting that “Deer Caught In The Headlights” look about them, lately
remember when prosecution was “Off The Table” ???
that didn’t last long
the villagers tried to protect tricky dick nixon too
DRIP DRIP DRIP
it don’t work
joe the aint-no-plumber can’t stop the leaks
even if the repuglitards stuff “joe” down cheney’s throat
2 – Yeah, like there’s anything that the left unplanted with their journos of choice.
My quote of the day comes from StuHunter at the Great Orange Satan
http://www.dailykos.com/story/…..e-of-Memos
Maybe Cheney knows that there is something truly “National Security sensitive” in the memos he’s requesting be released. That would be an excuse for him to say, “If only that secretive Obama would release those memos everything would be clear… Its all Obama’s fault.”
Does an ex Constitutional Officer maintain a Secret Clearance or would he receive redacted copies? (There’s no doubt he’ll get his docs asap in any case.
Sorry to restate the obvious, but some days it just hits between the eyes with such force that it has to be said yet again: One of the many really insidious things going on here is that Dick is trying, through PR this time, to normalize lawlessness. To make non-prosecution of acknowledged crimes OK and regular in certain circumstances. And TradMed is totally playing along, see not only Peggy Noonan’s firing offense of a performace Sunday morning, but also for example this CNN.com piece “Victim wonders if Nazi hunting is worth it”. WTF!!!! This shifting of norms, if it succeeds, may, perhaps, be in the long run the single most dangerous aspect of the whole thing.
5 – you know that is being revisited. Turns out that its more than 42 docs, Miliband has had to fess up that intel officers lied to the court, another 13 docs have been produced. Unlike here, where after the ACLU works for years Congress gets around to reading parts of what citizens forced to have released and then does a dramatic shrug and pirouette offstage, it was a parliamentary committee that put on the pressure for the “discoveries” that are now being made.
So with Miliband having to fess up to these lies to the high court, combined with his competing tales on whether or not the US would share intel or not that he made to Parliament v. the court, the media is re-visiting the issue of doc release with the court. And Scotland Yard has something a little more concrete vis a vis a cover up to go on.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worl…..e-evidence
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new…..ation.html
Hmmmm.
Interesting timing.
The debate over torture and abuse of prisoners has been going on for some time now.
Now out of power, “Whatta” Dick B. Cheney is now calling for the declassification of reports he says casts the policies of the Bush administration in a positive light.
Odd that didn’t occur to him when he was in power……….
I suppose if the documents are stamped “Eyes Only — Treat As Secret” then Cheney is the only person who can actually declassify them. Since this is his and Scooter’s made-up play-007 cloak-and-dagger classification for things they want to share with Judy Miller over waffles.
If Dick “Dick” Cheney were indicted already and there was a gag order in place, as any prosecutor would insist on, then we wouldn’t have to listen to him.
But I like him out there, defending torture, as the face of the modern GOP.
More Dick, please.
If this is a dumb question please forgive me but..how does Cheney get to make demands/requests two months after he slunk his lying rearend out of office and out of town? Hmm?
IANAL, but if, and I repeat if, those documents were addressed to Cheney or as part of a distribution list that had Cheney on that list, then those records would be an official part of the OVP.
The Presidential Records Act (in a morbid bit of humor, the very same act that Cheney constantly defied while in office) basically applies here and the former President and Vice President have a great deal of control over the records covered under the PRA.
I thought the Obama administration, from the start, changed that so any request would go through them.
Sounds familiar, but I’m not sure if that is what applies in this case. That may be, if memory serves me correct, and it may not, related to Executive Orders.
It may not be related to Cheney’s request because the PRA is official legislation, actual statutory law, and would require Congress to change it.
Wouldn’t be the first time I’m wrong, so don’t bet the farm on it. *g*
I would like to propose a line of questioning to teh Goopers who are busy defending this atrocious behavior:
Would you propose and support legislation pardoning Japanese personnel convicted in war crimes trials who used the same interrogation methods?
In other news, Generalissimo Franco is still dead.
I wonder how they prove it was “due to torture” that they got the supposedly “oh so important” info.
Do you think they had a control group? And what would constitute the “control” conditions? Imprisonment naked and cold and on gruel – versus being hung from the ceiling and waterboarded while sleepless? Or were they comparing it to how much info you get from your average couch potato?
Imagine the process of trying to get such “experiments” passed by the ethics committee. Right there, your search for conclusive evidence would end!
Another thing that we have to keep in mind about Cheney is that his standards of proof are different from any other educated person on the planet (Dougie Feith excepted). So what he thinks of as proof positive would be laughable to any skeptic.
Bob in HI
Two O/Ts.
DiFi offered assistance in securing federal funds for the FDIC “just days before the agency awarded a contract to Feinstein’s husband’s firm in the housing foreclosure crisis.” No one knew anything, though. It was a fluke.
http://www.google.com/hostedne…..QD97N2VRO0
http://tinyurl.com/djqnnr
And Greenwald has a great one up about Harman (hypocrisy).
http://www.salon.com/opinion/g…..21/harman/
http://tinyurl.com/dj4kkn
Cheney seems to think that a) the “Veep’s classification powers” executive order is still in effect; b) that he’s still Veep; c) that George Bush is still president, making Dick the boss.
How torture creates the generic suicide-attacker [suicide-bomber]. It’s pretty simple and you probably forgot you already know it.
In the 1950s I met my father’s friend who survived Nazi Gestapo torture. The background is interesting but not really relevant.
He was mid-level in French “Underground” and got gaught in Paris area. His status meant a potential wealth of info to interrogators, particularly names, codes, methods of communication. There was little attempt to “turn” someone [to swith sides or freely cooperate] whose motives were ideological, not for-profit.
He was subjected to crude elecroshock while immersed in barrel of cold water, over and over. He alternately talked and begged to be shot. As a hi-value target, some damage control was practiced to preserve his potential secrets for the picking. It was at his period that so many U personnel had been caught, tortured and often killed…that the U had to confront any way they could stop it.
The U response was simple and effective. Messages were passed to the Gestapo that any further killing would result in assassination of senior Gestapo personnel without regard to the life of the assassin…i.e. suicide-assassins. The threat was real because there were now so many desperately angry and aggrieved relatives/friends of past victims. The Gestapo ended this man’s torture and released him.
Torture begets assassination and change-of-tactics. For your personal reality on this…Under what circumstances would you decide, with complete intention, to hit back without even caring you will be killed on your mission?
Are we to infer from your WW2 story that one purpose of GWOT-era torture (an extremely poorly-kept secret, it must be acknowledged) was to provoke further attacks?
…was to provoke further attacks? Could be, but in US case I doubt it is done for that reason.
Those who practice terror seem not to notice that such actions can breed desperate killing as the only recourse…from those and their allies who see themselves as “cornered”.
Terror can be used deliberately to provoke “false flag” attacks that that try to focus retaliation onto wrong targets [attacks by “Huks” who were not Huks in Philippines; atacks by “Poles” who were not Poles as ruse to invade Poland, etc].
Prez B and VPrez C practice it as The Inquisition [which IMO led directly to our Constitution’s 5th Amendment…to preclude terror as a method to force confession]. How else to defang a guaranteed confess-tool?
One thing Cheney can count on is that the Neanderthals over at Faux News will blather endlessly about how these documents “prove” that torture works, and that Obama is weak on defense. Apparently you have to shoot one of your friends in the face with a shot gun to prove you’re a manly man.
Bob in HI
Or 75 pheasants in a day. Bred and raised for your killing pleasure. And your bragging rights. Because it just takes too much time to find a charging rhino when you feel the need to kill.
I have a question.
The ‘insiders’ take on Cheney, of a number of those in a better position to know than I am, in particular Barton Gellman, includes that he maintains ‘honest’ [whatever that might constitute in his mind] ‘patriotic’ [however he might see that] concerns for national security.
If that take is accurate, then we would expect the documents Cheney was alluding to in his sitdown routine with Hannity:
[a] not to present a true declassification challenge to the CIA and Panetta, or to Obama, and
[b] yet somehow support Cheney’s point, in some way or ways apparent on their face, such that they operate either:
[1] to make the point for him, or
[2] to provide him with actual or apparent immunity to open up on some unknown number of fronts, possibly indefinitely.
Given his ubiquitous presence in the Capital area, I would suspect the latter as more likely.
My question is: What would prevent Cheney from having pre-seeded the National Archives with one or more documents the C.I.A. has not seen, at least in the form, and devised by Cheney, with or without Addington’s help, both to allow Cheney to blather on in the Bush Legacy Tour and the Torture Tour and the Obama’s Weak Tour, to create major problems, if not complete impediments, in overcoming — IOW laundering all the various points on the agenda of his Tour [Bush’s legacy, torture, his own legacy, etc.]?
We may be about to witness a Clash of Titans here: Bush’ brain versus that of emptywheel.
Picking the very cherries he himself previously planted, if you will. Yes, nothing would prevent that.
He may not only have pre-seeded the National Archives; the Bush administration nudged out the previous Archivist John Carlin deviating from the normal process of attrition for that role and replaced him with Allen Weinstein.
Weinstein was suspect because of his deep Republican background and the presence of Henry Kissinger on the board of Weinstein’s Center for Democracy.
Additionally, there were monkeyshines very early in the Bush administration with changes to the Presidential Records Act via executive order 13233.
You can read more about it here; Wikipedia is pretty good on the PRA as well.
Obama already issued an executive order on day one of his presidency to restore the Presidential Records Act by revoking EO 13233; what’s not clear, though is whether there is some “Easter egg” in all of this shuffling which will surface and obstruct to desired effect.
I would not be at all surprised if the National Archives ultimately denied Cheney’s request because of some unforeseen (to us) wrinkle and Cheney will say, “My bad, really, the records would make my case if only we could read them…”
And remember Cheney is a paranoid. He’s always been a paranoid. In this case, he’s got good reason to be afraid.
Cheney may be trying to sneak these documents out as a means of pre-indictment discovery; knowing full well that in a CIPA battle post-indictment, he would face an angry Intelligence Community highly resistant to declassifying anything that would keep his ass out of the slammer.
Or a Cheney version of greymail.
Yes, but I never trust Cheney and so it concerns me that he’s mixing the words ‘memos’ and ‘reports’ AS IF they are either identical or interchangeable.
The first 18 seconds are a setup and slam at Obama, implying that Obama is somehow ‘unfair’ because he released the OLC ‘memos’ — and Cheney is upset that Obama didn’t “also” release the CIA ‘memos’. Implication: Obama is unfair, you’re only getting one side of the story but I the Great And Mighty Cheney have all the pieces.
The rest of the video, he talks about ‘memos’, BUT ALSO about ‘reports’.
Now, in my mind the two are not identical. A formal report has elements that a Memo does not, and a ‘report’ is generally more in depth and as a general rule includes recommendations. A ‘memo’ on the other hand is an internal letter.
Now it is one thing for a ‘memo’ to say, “Yeah, we’re going with Policy A.” Because that meets the standards of ‘memoness’.
But in my experience, a “report” means: intro, background, procedures, results, summary, recommendation(s). Not all ‘reports’ have this structure, but most that I’ve encountered do have this structure. (And anyone who reads a lot of reports automatically expects these features in a ‘report’. Obviously, Hannity is clueless about that basic fact.)
In addition to planting documents with the National Archives — which Cheney had refused to provide correct documentation during his time in office! — I think he’s also blurring some boundaries, because a ‘report’ is not the same as a ‘memo’, yet he confuses and conflates the two.
Now, in my experience you would NOT conflate those two forms of documents; their structures and purposes are different. They’re apples and oranges.
But here, Cheney talks about applishOrangey things.
Is he just honestly confused? Or is this yet another Cheney setup?
Philippe Sands, “Publish and be damned, Mr Cheney.”
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..rman-story
Marcy,
Did you notice this post over at Kos? Looks like Rep. Harman let a few things slip inadvertently…..
What crap. Cheney’s going to claim that he’s waiting for the key documents to be declassified so he can talk about them. Drudge is going to run a number of “Breaking News” reports claiming that there are memos saying that torture averted nuclear attacks on New York, LA, Dallas, Miami, and Boston. Fox News is going to talk about Drudge’s big scoop. And then when we finally get the memos two months from now, all they’ll say is that some random guy said he wished it was warmer in the winters, which one analyst thought was code for “nuke a bunch of cities”.
I’m bored already. And I haven’t even had to listen to Peggy Noonan say, “He said WARMER, for gosh sakes! How much clearer does a threat of terrorism have to be?”
I really think that IF such documents existed, and proved that Torture Gets Results, we would have seen them in the 2004 or 2008 presidential campaigns.When has Cheney ever had a problem Insta-Declassifying anything, when it served his political ends?
Not so say that such documents don’t exist. I think they are presently residing in the famous Man Sized Safe, but they have never been seen by the NSA or the CIA. They’ll get shuffled in with some legitimate documents, and who’s to say “Hey! I’ve never seen this one! It’s a forgery!” when the info was severely compartmentalized.
OT — AIPAC case in jeopardy for non-Harman-related reasons… as previously predicted in these pages.
It really is like getting the news a day early.
That case needs a Judge Walker to school them on how to try a case involving state secrets without spilling the beans.
Bob in HI
When leaks of classified documents touting torture success appear, we’ll know who the anonymous source is….
“Dick B. Cheney is now calling for the declassification of reports he says casts the policies of the Bush administration in a positive light.”
And just what power does he have to do that now he is a private citizen?
We need to view Dick’s bureaucratic move for what it is…
Contacting the National Archives to declassify files held by the CIA? That’s a little bizarre.
I think we need to assume that whatever documents Dick is asking for, he purposely placed in the hands of the National Archives, separately, in the OVP subject matter file. So he could retrieve them later.
I’m sure he has copies of the documents in his purpose built mansion a stone’s throw away from the Agency in McLean, but to be able to credibly cite them he must get them declassified.
It’s all about the documents with you, ain’t it Dick?
Do you have a man-sized safe in your house in addition to that elevator?
§ 2207. Vice-Presidential records
Vice-Presidential records shall be subject to the provisions of this chapter in the same manner as Presidential records. The duties and responsibilities of the Vice President, with respect to Vice-Presidential records, shall be the same as the duties and responsibilities of the President under this chapter with respect to Presidential records. The authority of the Archivist with respect to Vice-Presidential records shall be the same as the authority of the Archivist under this chapter with respect to Presidential records, except that the Archivist may, when the Archivist determines that it is in the public interest, enter into an agreement for the deposit of Vice-Presidential records in a non-Federal archival depository. Nothing in this chapter shall be construed to authorize the establishment of separate archival depositories for such Vice-Presidential records.
I’m really wondering if the Archivist (Wainstein) found it “in the public interest” to allow “deposit of Vice-Presidential records in a non-Federal archival depository.” Like Cheney’s new house’s living room.
Declassification by the Archivist appears to be governed by Executive Order 12958 on Classified National Security Information (1995). I find this a little odd, though. You’ll remember that Cheney spent a lot of time arguing he was not part of the Executive Branch. Yet EO 12958 only prescribes how PRESIDENTIAL records can be declassified. No mention of how OVP’s records can be declassified.
No mention of Vice Presidential Records… Just what is Dick playing at? As a bureaucratic warrior, he should know this.
Yes, that’s exactly the kind of trap I think CheneyCo. tried to stage; they must even have known early on that the 2004 election would be tight, and the presidential and vice-presidential records could pose a problem for them if they lost, making sure Weinstein was inserted into the Archivist role before the 2004 election.
I had not checked on Weinstein’s status last night before logging off; he resigned December 1st last year, leaving the deputy archivist as acting archivist in the mean time.
What do we know about the deputy/acting archivist, Adrienne Thomas? Is she a “left-behind”?
FAS has a CRS analysis of Presidential Records Issues, dd. February 17, 2009; I’m in the middle of reading it right now. On the face of it, it looks as if Obama’s EO 13489 may have made an effective end run on the previous Bush EO 13233, but I’m not certain what powers Cheney has constitutionally as former VP over any records. This could be one of the Easter eggs.
There was a companion Senate bill to HR 35, a bill modifying the Presidential Records Act to prevent another abusive EO like 13233. HR 35 passed the House, but I don’t know status of the Senate bill and suspect it’s still stuck in the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs…
And that’s the second Easter egg: remember who’s chair of that Committee?
Without a lot more reading and analysis, it looks like we must now depend on:
– the acting archivist to do the right thing (and not be a left-behind);
– no suit by Cheney related to PRA which might interfere with the release of the CIA dox;
– decision by the current White House and the CIA that the content of the records requested by Cheney are not sensitive and merit declassification;
– should EO 13489 become a bone of contention to the release of the CIA dox, Droopy Drawers Lieberman must be relied upon to do the right thing with the Senate’s companion bill to H.R. 35.
[sigh] plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.
After reading this much about the potential barriers to seeing Cheney’s requested dox, I wonder if a timeline is appropriate; Weinstein conveniently exits the same week Cheney files a motion to CREW’s September 2008 suit for the VP records. The suit continues; court rules on January 19th, CREW loses access to records, but Cheney must maintain them per the PRA. Why didn’t Weinstein choke it out to January 21?