Leahy: Congress Will Do Truth Commission with or without POTUS
As you may have seen last night, one of the more challenging questions for Obama came from the HuffPo’s Sam Stein, who asked Obama if he supported a Truth Commission.
Sam’s still busy with this story, today reporting that Leahy says Congress will go forward even without the support of Obama.
Senate Judiciary Chairman Patrick Leahy and White House Chief Counsel Greg Craig discussed on Tuesday the Senator’s proposal to set up a truth and reconciliation commission to investigate potential crimes of the Bush administration.
"I went over some of the parameters of it and they were well aware at the White House of what I’m talking about," Leahy told the Huffington Post. "And we just agreed to talk further."
[snip]
Leahy did add an important ripple to the story in the interview with the Huffington Post: Congress will likely proceed with investigations regardless of whether Obama is on board.
"Oh yeah," Leahy said when asked if he would go forward without Obama’s endorsement. "I think the Senate and the Congress as whole has an oversight responsibility that has to be carried out here anyway. Now it is much easier with the cooperation of the administration. A lot of things with the subpoenas I issued the past few years, we got a lot of information but a lot of it was held back."
[snip]
"What I would much rather see is to see us working together," said Leahy. "We have a common interest, both the Congress and the administration to get this thing worked out … In this instance, this is so important that our common interest is to get the truth out."
And in related news, Russ Feingold has joined the 22 other Members of Congress who have voiced their support for such a Commission.
I applaud Senator Leahy’s leadership in proposing the establishment of a truth and reconciliation commission. Getting all the facts out about what happened over the last eight years is a crucial part of restoring the rule of law. As President Obama and Attorney General Holder have said, nobody is above the law. There needs to be accountability for wrongdoing by the Bush Administration, including the illegal warrantless wiretapping and interrogation programs. We cannot simply sweep these assaults on the rule of law under the rug. [my emphasis]
I’m guessing Russ will not only support this Commission, but he’ll be one of the first reminding AG Holder that "nobody is above the law."
But howzit “Nobody is above the law” if there are no indictments and no referrals for prosecution? There’s significant stuff missing from this proposal.
Bob in HI
It’s even worse, though, to say “nobody is above the law” and follow up with “but I want to move into the future”. IOW, “nobody is above the law, but I can’t be bothered to support a thorough, professional independent investigation”.
I’m really disgusted with POTUS right now. And very sad and ashamed for my country.
FunnyDiva
What Leahy should do is to set up a Senate Select Committee, like the Senate created for Sam Ervin back in the Watergate days. If that’s what he has in mind, with care taken to avoid the Ollie North immunization fiasco, then I’m all for it. Otherwise, not so much.
Bob in HI
What Bob said.
Yup.
Bob, i realize it’s been a while but I see Leahy harking back here to the way things used to be done in the pre-Bush days, when it was customary to have the investigation first and save any indictments/referrals til afterwards.
You mean the days when it was customary to not take impeachment “off the table” the first week of a new Congress?
FunnyD
Maybe we’ll get lucky and they’ll find out someone got a bj. That’s good for at least four years of investigations, right?
/snark
Well, its fine to have the investigation first– as long as you don’t immunize all of the guilty people in the process, making indictments or referrals for prosecution pointless. Sam Ervin’s Senate Select Committee did the investigating that helped grease the skids for Watergate, and get the public on board. But don’t forget that they had Archie Cox and then Leon Jaworski working the parallel track of conducting criminal investigations and making indictments.
We need both!!!
Bob in HI
Of course, on the other hand, authorities in their right mind go ahead and act when there is enough information available and statutes of limitation are expiring. You have heard of those right?? Or do you just think we can investigate until the cows come home and die of old age while we wait for freaking Obama to honor his freaking oath of office???
So if that commission is going to have subpoena powers, will Holder’s DOJ enforce them?
If it wasn’t for the Cheney-Bush administration’s contempt of Congress’ constitutional role, your question would look completely ridiculous.
Do you seriously doubt it?
I’m still of the opinion that this is just a “bread and circuses” act meant to titillate but not to hold anyone to account.
After the Senate Judiciary Committee finishes its hearings on DOJ nominees, they’ll have a ton of slack time to fill, and what could be better popcorn entertainment than pulling Bush/Cheney skeletons out of closets for the amusement of the Villagers.
But nothing so serious as prosecutions. That would be giving over Congresscritter showtime to the Courts where popcorn is not allowed.
Is Leahy generally into “bread and circus” acts? I thought that he had more of a commitment to justice and our nation
I think he feels the rage that he didn’t do enough in the 110th Congress and wants to show that he’s doing something. I wish he’d share more about why he is suggesting something different from the normal process of investigation, or from the Senate’s prerogative to establish a Senate Select Committee.
Eventually, we will need something like the Church Commission. But not yet.
Bob in HI
Just my bias: the most important thing that POTUS (and VPOTUS) can do is relinquish openly and as permanently as they can the powers that Bush/Cheney arrogated to their offices. Biden’s the only Executive Branch person I’ve heard who has uttered a peep in this direction.
Nobody is above the law, but if we give you immunity for testifying – which is standard for truth and make-nice commissions – then you’ll end up out of the reach of the law. But that doesn’t mean you’re above the law. It just means that you’re off to the side somewhere, maybe in a strip-mall office near DC, doing the same old cr*p that you’ve been doing for year. But not above the law. Got that? Not above.
GMFB
Jonathon Turley had a few things to say about the “Truth Commission”. He said generally truth commissions are for third world nations. He went onto say that “there is no reason to do a commission” That the AG is “obligated to investigate”. Looking for a link at Countdown…not up yet.
Turley ripped up the Truth commission carpet and exposed the filth
that was on Countdown tonight
Exactly. Si, instead of cheering Leahy on, we ought to be asking why the heck – after all that righteous indignation (kabuki) – he is now doing the one thing to make an actual investigation (i.e., one that could lead to actual punishments for actual crimes) impossible. Not just by allowing Holder to say “someone else is on it”; by providing immunity.
Remember how well the immunity deal with Goodling worked out? All those convictions we got in return for letting her off? Oh, yeah. Leahy has me pumped like a All-Star (with apologies to bmaz).
Exactly.
I learn a great deal here @FDL. I immediately thought great a truth commission (thought it was great when Kucinich called for a commission several months ago). I have always thought Leahy was one of our Reps who was serious about accountability especially for such serious crimes
But here is what I don’t get about this. There have been several major investigations into pre-war intelligence (Silberman/Robb, Phase 1 of the SSCI, Phase II of the SSCI) Nothing ever came of those investigations NOTHING. We did not witness one person held accountable for creating, cherry picking and disseminating false pre war WMD intelligence.
Why does an investigation more likely insure prosecutions and a commission does not. If you are looking for the truth and you follow the facts or evidence what does it matter whether it is an investigation or a commission. It would seem logical that our Reps or the DOJ would follow the facts and if crimes have been committed prosecutions would follow.
Just a regular folk trying to understand
I would have expected more out of Leahy
Oh but just having it KNOWN what a body DID should preclude anyone from doing it again RIGHT?
As if!
And, if you will excuse me for ranting, I consider it extreme cowardice that the house under Conyers and Pelosi have not even tried to impeach. “They don’t see the votes!” Well why the hell not? What moral fiber can the dems pretend to be using if they haven’t and won’t and cannot seem to bring themselves to act AS IF THEY WERE CONGRESS CRITTERS who actually said an OATH!
Maybe — juuuuuust maybe — the president knows that the truth-outing process will proceed best under the direction of Sen. Leahy.
Once Leahy has compiled enough evidence, the president will be obliged to “move forward” on bringing administration officials to justice, as he had planned all along.
– – – for #13, make that “bringing FORMER administration officials to justice, . . . .”
Wait for a news peg.
It might be anything: Fitz goes back to the well with Rove; some of the pallets of cash sent to Iraq wind up in Addington’s garage; some Abramoff little fish start fingering Bush insiders.
There are all the good reasons to investigate Bush’s crimes, and post them on billboards up and down the beltway.
It will only happen against a backdrop of public outrage–which Bush kind of burned out over a period of years.
But I see any investigation waiting until after the economic bills have passed and the GOP can’t gum them up in exchange for investigating the Bushies.
okay,. this dude that asked the question today at Ft. Myers…. he’s on Olbermann. Isn’t this how JTP got his start?
Ugh. seriously… I was watching him and whispered to myself “meth”
geez randiego, cut the guy some slack
I think the kid is on our side
and don’t be so sure about the “meth” part of your diagnosis
the dude was activly involved in politics
don’t sound like any meth user I ever met
some people are just that scary on the natch (and the dude was REALLY excited)
leave Julio the Burger Flipper alone
at least the dude actually flips burgers
unlike joe the
plumberjournalistpolitical consultantheh – yeah he was a little excited wasn’t he…
Back in the day when I treated my body
like a Nuclear Waste Dumpregularly to MickeyDees, I got a double McChicken Combo with a Large Strawberry Milkshake and got buzzed, like Julio … what’s in that stuff ?Oh, me too. Maybe another drug, but something…stewed together with some religion.
Weird.
Nothing,
Nothing,
Nothing.
This will be the result of a congressional commission.
Special Prosecutor and the courts–the only way, in my opinion. This is a diversion. A ruse. And an insult.
Is there a chance that a “truth and reconciliation commission” could be used to get info from the people at the bottom..and the info could be used to get the guys at the top?
That’s how the mob trials work…
They may (may) be able to do a truth commission, but not a reconciliation commission because many of the people they need to be reconciled (i.e. the international victims) with are not Americans and have not agreed to participate, will likely not be invited to participate, and have no reason to reconcile.
Calling this endeavor a “truth and reconciliation commission” cheapens the very concept. It trivializes the very hard work that was done in places like South Africa to try to air and heal the trauma of the apartheid years, and reconcile victim with oppressor.
If congress wants to get to the bottom of some of the things that happened under the Bush regime, fine and good. But don’t call it a truth and reconciliation commission.
I feel very strongly about this.
How do you reconcile with over a million dead Iraqi people. Maybe they could invite the 5 million Iraqi refugees to the truth commission hearings
Reparations?
Reparations and real apologies
Tutu Tells Blair: Apologize for ‘Immoral’ War
http://www.commondreams.org/he…..216-03.htm
http://www.democracynow.org/20…..nd_tutu_on
South African Archbishop Desmond Tutu on the Election of Barack Obama, the Israeli Blockade of Gaza, US Foreign Policy under President Bush and More
Tutuweb
South African Archbishop Desmond Tutu is one of the leading voices for peace, justice and human rights around the world. He was a central figure in the South African struggle against apartheid and was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1984. Today he will receive the J. William Fulbright Prize for International Understanding for his work for peace in South Africa and elsewhere. [includes rush transcript]
Rachael just had Leahy on, she reads a general consensus emerging to give ‘em all a chance to testify at the commission and get immunity, or else face criminal prosecution if the facts so indicate. If you’re not with ‘em, you’re agin’ em. Has the popular political advantage of appearing as a “middle way”. Hmmm.
If you refuse to answer a question it’s perjury because you will agree to testify.
Huh? It’d be welshing on the deal, and I guess in the extreme it could result in a withdrawal of the immunity-for-testimony agreement, but can you explain for me how you get to perjury?
Whaaaa??? You are kidding, right?
Is that comtempt I hear?
Heh, I am not sure. But the statement as written is absurd. Might be breach of contract I guess, but it is really hard to see perjury. And, as I noted above, if the statute of limitations has run, why are subjects going to make this agreement; if the statute has not yet run, they still have their 5th Amendment rights which will always trump some half baked “agreement to testify”. It is just loopy all the way around.
Huh, just had a thought: Would it in any way smoke out a secret pardon?
I’d been wondering about secret pardons. Or pardons held in a back pocket until needed – but leaving the individual able to retain their right regarding self-incrimination in the meanwhile. Best of both worlds.
Of course, being pretty much innocent of the law, I could be out to lunch on this.
Well, the following is exceedingly mushy thinking, but I was thinking if you got a secret pardonee in front of a Truth and Light Commission and asked them something incriminating, you’d be putting them in a position where they’d have to choose between relying on the immunity and testifying — thus narking on Team W after which I would not recommend flying in small planes nor driving alone on country roads — vs. breaking the immunity deal in order to take the 5th in the knowledge that when it goes to trial you’d pull out the pardon and keep your silence. Which would be rather visible.
I was trying to be helpful. I thought that “appearing and refusing to answer left one liable to a charge of contempt” was what CaDL was getting at.
Yeah, that might make a lot more sense than perjury. Still, this all bumps smack dab into a subject’s Constitutional right to silence. Unless you are giving immunity, I just don’t see it. To be honest, from a defense perspective, i would still be worried about a client walking into this. suppose you spilled your guts honestly, but somebody else lied about you and they believed the other guy. Jeebus, the whole process just seems fraught with so many holes that it is impossible to see working. And consider that immunity was supposedly not in the offing in the first place. I just dunno; can’t see it as appropriate or working. I am not the only one either; check out Jonathan Turley.
Just shoot me. How ’bout we extend that courtesy to every accused criminal for every offense in the country? “You know… as long as you come clean and testify about raping and killing that person, we won’t prosecute ’cause all we want is the truth”. Poppycock. I’m lookin’ for some deterrence to go with my truth.
Bingo. it appears we are to be force-fed some grandeur-based privileges of power to go along with our puny laws.
Screw that, I was promised something more along the blindfolded-lady-with-the-scales to torches-and-pitchforks continuum.
I’m even willing to forego the pie and pony.
Yep. This is so offensive on so many levels. Ashcroft tried to cover up Justice (literally), but he had it wrong, he needed to just go ahead and take off her blindfold and hand her a platter of peeled grapes to replace the scales.
Is it really asking so very much of Democrats in power (Congress, Executive Branch, take your pick) to uphold the rule of law??? Is it???
Er.
That was rhetorical, wasn’t it?
Is Rachel also calling for these big proposed commissions of mucho gravitas to be held after the statute of limitations have all run?? Cause that is exactly where we are headed with this lame brain idea. How you gonna get all these criminals to walk in and talk when they know the freaking statute has run?
On the off chance that my closing “Hmmm” failed to adequately convey my skepticism about the whole enchilada: I am skeptical about the whole enchilada.
Given that Bush apparently did not issue broad pardons for unknown acts of criminal behavior my druthers would be for criminal prosecutions of any illegal activities by members of the prior Administration. Certainly a House or Senate hearing has some role in developing legislation or oversight of future acts….but they have to be very careful not to disclose information that might make prosecution impossible or difficult…particular of those who may have systematically committed and ordered felonies. Find enough to put a fire under a recalcitrant DOJ and President who want to look away, perhaps.
“Nobody is above the law” and “but I want to move into the future” are mutually contradictory concepts. If it applied across the board then NO criminal behavior would ever be tried. And if one says that politicians or other government officials are exempt from prosecution then no one can be EQUAL before the law.
One can legally show mercy to those who committed an act under duress, or ignorance, or because an act actually did save peoples lives (this is the “speeding to the hospital to save the life of a sick person” argument). But the flip side of hat is the fact that government officials are supposed to never commit a crime or cover one up under color of authority. It’s actually WORSE. It’s Misprision of felony.
Naw, I kind of got that out of the parting hmmm. It just cracks me up how many people are biting off on this stuff. I mean, it wasn’t that long ago that “blue ribbon commissions” were a joke/laughingstock; now all of a sudden they are the answer to stinking war crimes? I just can’t fathom how anybody thinks this is going to accomplish anything. Is it better than nothing? I dunno; maybe, but I am not sure of that. I would a lot rather demand real investigation and prosecution; you know, kind of like the law contemplates in the first place.
The only potential positive that I can see (now that I’ve put the kids to bed, which always calms me down) is we might manage to piss the Europeans off enough that one of them takes matters into their hands. No SoL on war crimes, right?
That’s what I’ve been told. Didn’t they go after Pinochet long after his years in power? Or was that for something else, not war crimes?
Problem is that we would never extradite or rend one of our former governmental officials for that, and would never sanction the unwilling taking of them either. So it won’t happen. Not that I wouldn’t relish the thought though.
Then have the Italians come and get them. After all, they owe us one … or two … or three.
I suppose the question to ask is what do you want the end result to be?
Do you want a few high profile criminal trials, with only that evidence that is properly linked to the charges, and appropriate under the rules of evidence brought into the public view, with the possibility that one or several mid to higher level Bushies might go to jail? or….
Do you want wide ranging evidence under oath, but not constrained by the rules of trial evidence so that eventually there emerges a sworn master narrative as to what the Bushie’s were up to in those 8 years? …I think you have to make a choice, and at least ask the question, what perhaps is best for the country.
Frankly, I don’t favor trials except for those who stonewall a congressionally mandated process. If Karl Rove won’t show up, swear, tell the truth and all — yep, quickie court trial and take him behind the barn, horse whip him first, and then shoot him. But most of all, I think the country needs a master narrative with tested evidence right now, and where necessary the Legislative Branch must be pressured to embed necessary reforms in statute law.
While the wiretapping, and the torture profoundly bothers me — I don’t get the sense that right now that is what the general public finds bothersome about the Bush Era, and thus what can be built upon with something like an Ervin or Church style Special Committee. They are concerned about the lying about Iraq Intelligence prior to authorizing the invasion, about the huge costs of that war with no obvious result worth the blood of the troops, the levels of incompetence (perhaps intentional) in so much of what Bush did — in war and in other things. They want to know why the economy collapsed as it has. Wiretapping and torture are subset tactics in all of this — they are not the main act.
Watching Barak Obama over the last couple of weeks has been so enjoyable, because this guy is a master Politician, and knows what he is doing on the large stage. I really don’t want him burdened with dealing with the Bushies and all their sins — because simply by using his gifts and skills he is finally showing Americans what a Born Politician is all about, and that it is not a negative. If what I am seeing is right — he is driving the Republicans so deep into their ideological cave, they may eventually find themselves in the same cavern with bin Laden on the other side of the world. He’s a community organizer — has the wit of some street fighters about him — and moreover I think he actually enjoys the contest. Yes, he has to clean up Bush’s messes, but more to the point I think he understands it is more critical to kill and bury the ideology that allowed for Bush in the first place. I don’t think tying that to putting a few people in jail would accomplish this — but I think six months of watching a Master Pol work within the rules of the game will.
Another thought…I got to thinking the other night about Leon Panetta, the likely CIA Director. Remembered that when Panetta was first elected to Congress he was a progressive Republican — and then it hit me why he switched parties. He was mad as hell at Rumsfeld and Cheney’s high handed way of closing down OEO in the first years of the Nixon Administration, mad enough that he converted to the Democratic Party. (Young folk — OEO was Office of Economic Opportunity, the HQ of Johnson’s War on Poverty.) I remembered it all and laughed my head off — there is no one more likely to do in what remains of Dick Cheney, and with style, than Leon Panetta.
Hi Sara. Good point about Panetta. However, I must disagree about the other; I think things that have bored directly into the heart of the Constitution and the rule of law, torture and wiretapping, and the attendant usurpation of power from the co-equal branches prime among them, have to be addressed. If it is inconvenient, tough; it is what must be done. It is the law, and it is the Constitutional duty.
One more thing here–
On Dr. Rachel Maddow’s show tonight (hey, she talked about her “dissertation”), she mentioned a proliferation of statements by Democratic leaders in Congress (Leahy, Conyers, Pelosi, Reid, Feingold etc.) demanding some kind of accountability from members of the Bush administration. And also that Obama himself has (somewhat ambiguously) called for accountability (”nobody’s above the law”) if there are “clear instances of violations of the law” or some equivalent phrase. She tried to portray this as some kind of emerging consensus.
I personally don’t like the Leahy proposal, because he explicitly discounting the idea of prosecutions. I think it is way too early for a “truth commission.” I just hope that a consensus does not develop that will protect Bush, Cheney, Rove, Addington, and all the others from prosecution.
Bob in HI
What is Addington doing now BTW?