Hot Rails To Hades
It has been quite the rage on teh progressive internets to discuss trans, trains and super trains. Atrios is the King of all Train Media. Yglesias has climbed on board, and now even a dyed in the wool California suburban guy like Kevin Drum is jawing about them, although he seems to have differing views on short haul commuter (for) than long haul passenger (against for financial reasons).
Well, this is most certainly not an area I have any expertise in, so I call on you, the smartest commentariat available, to edify me. And, this is important, because I just got a brand new choo choo.
A dress rehearsal for the new Metro light-rail system went smoothly Friday as trains packed with VIPs and special guests rolled out of Tempe for Phoenix and Mesa.
A couple hundred people trooped into the chilly plaza of the Tempe Transportation Center before dawn to be among the first to ride the $1.4 billion system. Metro has been making test runs with the trains and the Friday event for invited guests was a warm-up for Saturday, when the public is welcomed on board.
…
Tempe Mayor Hugh Hallman said the rail system not only would help reduce congestion and bad air but also contribute to "cultural sustainability," helping cities preserve resources."We have to thank the taxpayers who sponsored this investment," he said.
Metro runs from the Christown Spectrum Mall area in Phoenix through downtown Tempe into west Mesa.
They have been planning, researching, constructing and developing the Valley Metro Light Rail for twelve years, and talking about it since the mid 80s. And now it is ready to roll. In fact, I saw the VIP run earlier today as I went to Sky Harbor airport to pick up a friend. Definitely very shiny. I am, however, not quite sure what to make of it.
Here is a good overview of the whole Valley Metro Rail System.
Phoenix and the greater "Valley of the Sun" is the very definition of urban and suburban sprawl. And it is very automobile centric; if you don’t have a car, you can’t get around. I have no idea what it would be like to ride a bus here, but my guess is not very pleasant or convenient. So, I have some questions.
1) Being so car ingrained, will people really ride this thing in numbers great enough to make it worthwhile?
2) Will it work in light of the fact that things are so spread out? Phoenix has a "downtown" core, but it is nowhere near anything like in eastern cities; not that great of percentage of workers are going to have jobs within walking distance of the rail line.
3) Will the mere presence of the line itself draw development to it, i.e. along its route, so as to make it more useful? How long will this take?
4) Once the initial route is built and opened, as it is just being done here now, how long before additions are made? How generally have other places determined the nature and routes of such additions?
5) It is a 115 degrees here a significant amount of the year, are people going to ride this thing when it is that hot out? Seriously, I am thinking about waiting at a platforn in that heat, then climbing in a cigar tube with a bunch of other mopes who have been doing the same thing, maybe a lot longer than me. Scary!
6) What else do I need to consider, or do we need to discuss here? How can my city improve on what it has started?
Initial thoughts: I live in the Puget Sound region and after years of sitting in traffic and too many close calls on congested freeways with lunatic drivers, found myself putting off a needed trip to Portland, OR.
Finally realized that I dreaded the airport option: get there early, pay fortune to park after spending 1/2 hour finding an empty spot, go in, find gate, have shoes x-rayed, yadda, yadda…
I also realized that I was just sick to death of the idea of one more rain-drenched trip stick in Tacoma, or Olympia…
Went to http://www.amtrak.com
Found suitable dates, booked ticket.
Caught a ride to the station where I was boarding with a friend who works near the station, so I didn’t even have to leave my car for the few days.
I can’t speak highly enough for the relaxing, leisurely, scenic ride. Coming AND going.
Plus, they sell food from ‘Gretchen’s’, which is also does the food in Seattle’s Benaroya Hall, so I could get a good meal on the way and plug in my computer to the Internet (extra $$ on the ticket, but quite reasonably priced IMHO).
As for the more local routes… I’ve become so sick to death of traffic and underwriting the BushCheney enabled oil sharks that I’d be willing to consider hanging out the window of your AZ train.
Yes, I still enjoy driving once in a while.
But I’m so completely fed up with dangerous, overcrowded driving conditions in my region that I really look for alternatives. I can hardly stand the thought of one single more hour of my life spend on the interstates.
If it’s safe, clean, and well maintained, people will ride your train. And here’s hoping it’s not just ‘the poor’, but those of us simply sick to death of handing money to oil companies.
As for the development patterns — that’s complicated. It depends on the skill set of your local planners and city governments, as well as the talent and vision of builders. It’s hard to predict, but good government policies and competent staff up the odds considerably.
Sorry,
should be ’stuck in traffic accidents and/or congestion in Tacoma or Olympia…’
(2) is huge: How will people get from the stops to where their jobs ARE? How commuter rail works(WHEN it works)is that people can get easily and quickly from where they get off the rail to where they work, usually through subway or bus lines or walking(and we will not discuss the whole ‘walking in 115 degree weather’ thing). One of the biggest problems with the DC Metro(which was built AFTER DC and the suburban sprawl all developed) is that people have to get TO the Metro stations from where they live…and many times,the whole drive/park/train ride thing is really bad. And the Metro stations are where the builders could put them – which is not where people live. There is a program being developed in a part of suburban DC(Arlington? Vienna? I’m not sure) which revolves around basically taking down commercial properties and single family homes and developing multi-use properties(retail on the first floor, offices and commercial on the second and third floors, apartments and coops for the rest, schools, a partk, etc.)..and this is being planned for within a couple of blocks walk of the Metro station there.
Yup. Cities have long lives, and in an era when we tend to think short term, longer horizion policies like Toby’s pointing to are key.
That’s where caliber of leadership, plus the ability to recruit and pay talented land use/zoning/planning staff is extremely critical. No big developer in their right mind is going to sink money into a project with a city/county council that isn’t consistent, doesn’t enforce their own laws, and doesn’t hire and monitor good staff. Developers have lost money big time on projects in places where electeds and/or planning staff didn’t deliver on promises in a timely fashion.
‘Leadership’ that can withstand the challenges of taking down existing structures and making those kinds of changes in neighborhoods is not an everyday occurance. If you have leadership with that kind of talent, guts, and vision you are lucky.
Portland OR has been running light rail for many years, and continues to add new lines. Worth looking into.
As to your questions above:
1) Yes.
2) Your results may vary.
3) Depends on adjunct decision-making, such as zoning that encourages commercial centers and multi-family housing. As to how long it takes to develop, Portland’s system has been growing in a time of economic growth; present conditions are obviously much different.
4) See comment above. Additional routes tend towards growing suburban population centers, and follow established transit routes (arterials , freeways). A route to Portland International airport was also added, connecting to an existing line.
5) Two words: air conditioning. More words: equipment tends to malfunction and break down.
6) Is the taxation well established? Here, we have a tax on business payrolls, based on the premise that employees use the system for commuting, and businesses gain by public transit serving commercial centers as well as the downtown core.
bmaz – you really ought to give it a try. Just imagine…
You’re kicked back in a comfy chair…got your iPhone jacked-in to the toobz and the current thread…tunes going in your earbuds…and, everywhere the train stops to let you out, there’s an internet cafe with ice cold beverages to beat back the 115 degree heat.
If it were convenient to you, I think you might find it a ‘lifestyle’ you could really enjoy. Here in the beginning of the Age of Community, it’s all about staying connected, while still getting things done.
One of my grandfathers got his Masters in Finance at Wharton and did all of his homework and studying during his daily train commute.
Several key things to consider:
1. Is it easy for people to find info? In how many languages?
2. Are the maps easy to read? By anyone… even with poor vision and little education?
3. Is there a person walking around the station to make it ‘feel safe’, a person who looks like they can answer questions? Because if there’s no one to ask for help, ridership will drop.
4. If you have early am/late pm hours, is the area safely lit? Can people easily read directions? Spot the place they’re supposed to stand to catch their ride?
5. Is there a toilet handy? But SAFE? If not, that’s a problem.
6. Do people need ‘exact change’? That’s the kiss of death, and a collassally stupid transit policy. You always want to make it easy to ride and pay, so ATM ticket machines that are easy and simple to use are a smart move.
7. Another smart move: employ actual human beings who can put on a friendly face and be a reassuring presence are an excellent bang for the salary buck.
8. Ideally, people can check routes, and also the train’s time arriving, by using cell phones to plan, or assess how long they have to get to the station.
9. It’s all about ‘usability’, usability, usability. You really have to help people have a successful trip or two — or three — and once they have a good experience, they’ll keep doing it.
10. Are the stations AND also the train seats well maintained and clean? If so, people will ride; if not, you’re inviting gang activity and criminals will move in. (One of my cousins used to rave about the system in Caracas, Venzuela, which he said had the greatest, cleanest system he’d seen and was a source of civic pride.)
If the local electeds are smart, they’ll make a point of taking the train several times each week to familiarize themselves, be a presence to citizens (or at least those who recognize them), and a morale booster to the employees of the transit system. Keep putting money into maintainence; just like a car, it’s some of the best money you can spend.
Key Summary: Try to think of using the system if you were an illiterate who didn’t even know the city; if you can ensure that someone with that lack of information can figure out the system, you have a good shot at making it successful.
Pay for cops and security — low key, visible, pleasant. Do not EVER let a station be dark and if there are toilets make sure they are checked every hour for cleanliness and safety. As long as the system is pleasant and safe, it will — kind of like magnet — attract more diverse parts of the population over time. It takes time but it’s all about making it a good experience.
And the better experience it is, the more people take it. The more people take it, the more valuable the development along the corridor. And so on…
Note to self: stop trying to comment while also doing time on the stationary cycle… bleh 8(
I live in an urban area which has added light-rail in the last few years. A stop is 2 blocks from my abode. In response to your questions:
1) Being so car ingrained, will people really ride this thing in numbers great enough to make it worthwhile?
Depends on where the stops are. If there’s a couple ”mall” and ”office/work area” and ”Connect to other transport” stops on the route, they will use it for all sorts of stuff. Chances are they spent no small amount of time making sure this was the case when they laid it out, so I’ll speculate ”yes”.
2) Will it work in light of the fact that things are so spread out? Phoenix has a ”downtown” core, but it is nowhere near anything like in eastern cities; not that great of percentage of workers are going to have jobs within walking distance of the rail line.
Maybe not in the same way as it does in the eastern cities, but even if it’s just service personnel riding it to and from work, the ridership will justify continuing and expanding it.
3) Will the mere presence of the line itself draw development to it, i.e. along its route, so as to make it more useful? How long will this take?
Yes. Some changes will happen almost immediately, like changing pedestrian foot traffic patterns to include people going to and from the stations and having people walking on the street near the stations instead of driving. As that foot traffic pattern develops, residential and small retail will follow. ”Walking distance to light rail” will be a selling point in real estate ads – a good point that enhances prices, that is. Light rail does grow communities – it will probably take about 5 years to really get going.
4) Once the initial route is built and opened, as it is just being done here now, how long before additions are made? How generally have other places determined the nature and routes of such additions?
Additions can be made as soon as the money is there. Remember, from ”The Right Stuff”: ”No bucks? No Buck Rogers.” Same here. I have no idea where/how other places have determined the nature and routes, though I think aiming the routing at connections to other mass transit, large parking areas (like, for instance, stadiums) and population/business centers is the usual drill.
5) It is a 115 degrees here a significant amount of the year, are people going to ride this thing when it is that hot out? Seriously, I am thinking about waiting at a platforn in that heat, then climbing in a cigar tube with a bunch of other mopes who have been doing the same thing, maybe a lot longer than me. Scary!
Yes. The cars are electrically powered, and that means there is air-conditioning. I think a lot of the hot-part-of-year use will be in the relatively cooler morning and evening commutes, but how many people are out and about in the Valley of The Sun at 1 PM on a July Thursday, anyway?
6) What else do I need to consider, or do we need to discuss here? How can my city improve on what it has started?
Yes, and this can create the conditions for nice little coffee bars and other amentities. The more you have people walking around, buying papers and coffee from the same people every day, the safer the neighborhood becomes. With safety, you also see property values rise — bmaz, you ought to consider buying some property ;^))
In LA, there are developments that are planned just to take advantage of being close to a subway/light rail/heavy rail stop. Some stations have space for businesses – Chatsworth has a coffee place, a Chamber of Commerce office, a travel agency, and a field office for the local councilmember (unfortunately, the coffee place is the only one ever open when I’m around – the rest haven’t figured out that commuters aren’t around 9am to 4:30 pm).
When gas costs enough, or traffic is bad enough, people will ride trains, and not go back to driving if they can avoid it. If the local transit moguls can figure out that rail and bus need to meet (reliably), and that parking lots are a necessity for commuters without access to buses, it goes even better.
Well… at least that’s a good mix of services, and it sounds like they’ll figure it out – either by altering their work schedules, or some other way. But you and FrankProbst raise really good points –in many cities, transit use still needs to be supported by auto use.
Phenomenal amounts of money ride on those transit siting decisions.
Pedestrian access is a key factor.
You’d have to walk across seven lanes of traffic to reach my local Park-N-Ride. The result? Traffic jams getting into the Park-N-Ride each morning; and another one at the end of the day as people leave. Smart leadership doesn’t let that kind of mess happen.
There’s a whole too-little utilized subfield of transportation planning called ‘walkability’ and also ‘pedestrian friendly planning’.
Basically, people tend to walk 1/4 mile happily, and 1/2 mile willingly. Beyond that, they’ll drop off so you want to put in bike paths if possible and bike racks that are safe at the transit stations.
But a good project developer will tend to look at an aerial map of the transit location, then put the center of a compass on that point and draw two concentric circles: 1/4 mile, and 1/2 mile. Within that area you want good landscaping and no dangerous roads to cross.
Oh, I forgot under ‘other’: sculpture, landscaping, and public art are subtle but extremely important in signaling that it’s a safe, public place.
Plus, these can take on lives of their own when integrated into public spaces, and become part of the annual cycle of community life. Here’s one example from inside the city of Seattle:
The troll under Seattle’s Fremont Bridge (and yeah, I sure as hell wish I’d bought property in THAT neighborhood in 1980!!):http://www.seattle.net/media/FremontTroll.jpg
Okay, I’m blog whoring.
One last sample, but it shows how art in public spaces — especially near transit — can change the way people think about, use, and ‘take ownership’ of their communities. When you see people decorating local statues, or adding seasonal ‘flair’ then the chances of a safe community increase:
http://www.yelp.com/biz_photos…..Xx3-zdQLDg
We have one of these in Houston, despite Tom DeLay’s efforts to kill it. On balance, I’d say it’s a huge plus. The one line connects the downtown area to the museum district and then runs through medical center and out to the sports arena. I work in the med center, which has tens of thousands of employees and students and no cheap parking. A lot of people use the train to get to and from work, but I’m guessing that most of them drive in to one of the satellite parking lots and then take the metro the rest of the way in, so I’m not sure how “green” it really is. Still, you can get in and out of downtown easily, which is a big plus, and is seems to be spurring new growth in downtown Houston.
That being said, there are downsides. The biggest one is that they put the light rail in the middle of a major street, and the left turn lanes are literally on the train tracks. It hasn’t been pretty. They put cameras on the trains to try to understand why there were so many problems. See for yourselves:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CV2rdGX4JYc
Same kind of problem with LA’s ‘Blue Line’ – it’s grade-level overhead electric, and people will make left turns in front of it even as the gates are coming down. (Playing ‘beat the train’ is not a good idea, ever.) The other problem that line has is at places with poor drainage – when it rains, the line floods at those, and it isn’t pretty for the many people who use it to commute.
I had to stop at 40 seconds; great music, but whoa is that ever scary!
More ‘business’ for the Med Center’s ER entrance, it appears.
Sadly, I suspect that more than a few of the people who get hit are either patients or people who are visiting patients in one of the hospitals. If you live here, you know to look out for the train. If you’re from out of town, especially if you’re from a rural area, you’re not going to expect there to be a train in your lane. The train is also very quiet, and I think most Texans are used to big things making a lot of noise. The signs are also hard to decipher. There’s one for “No right turn over the train tracks”. A visitor from out of town asked me why we had a “No giraffes” sign on the road.
Wow, that is one sad design problem. I can see that it wouldn’t take much at all for a serious accident to occur if people don’t have more visual cues to keep clear of trains in the roadway.
“No giraffes”? Ouch!
(I’m reminded of a story from an anthropology review: tribesmen were shown a dog wagging its tail. The tribesmen were exceedingly amazed by the picture of the ‘dog with 8 tails’ and wanted more info about it.)
Wow, I don’t have enough information to have any insight about how that system was designed with such a high likelihood of extreme tragedy. My heart really goes out to anyone turning in front of a train by accident; how absolutely ghastly.
Washington State finally outlawed the use of (hand held) cell phones while driving. People can still use Bluetooths and headsets while driving, but the number of horrendous accidents due to people dialing and using cell phones was just getting too high – and as someone out on those freeways, I found it terrifying. But with longer commutes, more people tried to get more phone work done on the road… and it really is dangerous at 60 mph, and even at 35 mph. At least on buses, people can text without endangering everyone else on the road (!).
I wonder how many of those vehicles that turned in front of the train had drivers on cell phones, or else consulting GPS readouts. It would be useful to know what the distractions were — perhaps at least one was trying to figure out what ‘the giraffe signs’ meant, eh?
All of which, IMHO, makes trains a great option, but clearly they need to be separated from cars and trucks. Wow, I’ll bet transportation engineers have spent plenty of time with that video, and other stuff like it. Very sad.
This is a perennial issue where I live, too. I am glad in a way for Phx, given its burden of thick summer smog, but the sprawl of cities in the west is a special consideration, too. Our region had internecine disagreements which finally resolved over the past three elections, and the rail is funded, though not monorail bullet train, and our terrain is considerably different. Yet, from the dozens of germane websites, if you are involved in the issue, there are some treasures worth gleaning. Check, for example this excerpt from the archeology component of the EIR, link; or this site railing against some of the crony politics of freight over passenger systems, link. I actually know little about Phx, though a passle of passages thru SkyHarbor always have left the feeling it would be a wonderful place for spelunking, the gems embedded in the columnar architecture being enticing in that way. Phx has a lot of class in its public ornamentation in the insta-tourist glimpses I have garnered; for example, the mystical thunderbirds the masons created in the soundproofing cinderblock barriers along the interstate are a work of art I wish other less imaginative construction engineers would observe in other cities. If I have a moment next week I may gather some materials of relevance and send some further links. I voted numerous times against the ballot measures to support the rail, but managed to be glad the requisite 65% of voters overruled my view, hoping the wail of the siren would be only rare soundscape pollution, though there is a body of musicology worshipful of that baleful Dopplered monotone. As a preteen I enjoyed a transcontinental journey on a modern train, but I would rather adhere to simple bucolic tasks like the man with the hoe in these times. I lived in Silicon Valley when they first modernized public transit, and the new upholstery and punctual schedules were a joy, only to degrade into the usual rendition of Parisian public loo’s within a few years. It takes persistent and cognizant guiding boards to maintain the attraction, maximize strengths, and integrate with the community. In Sta.Rosa, for example, a farmer’s market has sprouted with a weekend music jam which attracts thousands of families summerlong in what will be a principal stop for the so-called SmartTransit. I suppose I just think of a Lot to laugh a train to cry, and am glad I aint headin to the northcountry fair, just takin a shovel to the ridge to tend the forest surrounds.
The Twin City area’s first light rail (since it’s great street car system was trashed in the 1950s) went live about 4 1/2 years ago. It was the signature accomplishment of the Jesse Ventura gubernatorial administration, and its route runs from the Mall of America in the southern suburb of Bloomington to downtown Minneapolis, terminating in the former warehouse, now entertainment district at its western edge. Major intermediate stops include both terminals at the MSP airport (where it serves as a free shuttle between them), the VA hospital and the Humphry Metrodome stadium.
During the first year and a half of operation ridership was 65% above projections. It appears to be fostering redevelopment along the Hiawatha Avenue corridor in south Minneapolis, which had been a declining industrial area. This is especially true regarding where the line crosses Lake Street, a major east/west artery a mile or two south of downtown.
Encouraged by this line’s success the state and Metro council have committed to a second line connecting the downtowns of Minneapolis and St. Paul on a route that passes through the U of MN’s Minneapolis campus and thence along the University Avenue corridor that prior to the building of I-94 was the main thoroughfare between the two cities. There is also the heavy rail North Star commuter train project that will serve the rapidly growing corridor to the northwest along the Mississippi River. It will initially run from downtown Minneapolis to the town of Big Lake, which at about 30 miles out, is half way to St. Cloud, its likely ultimate termination point. This train will run on existing Burlington Northern tracks. Other light and heavy rail projects are in the planning and approval-seeking stages.
The Puget Sound region’s ‘Sounder’ commuter trains have a similar deal with the railroads, and it’s worked quite well as near as I can tell.
Hope you had lots of ‘granddaughter time’ this holiday!
I certainly did! She’s one precious 7 1/2 month old bundle!
Cool ;-))
bmaz,
I’ve got no expertise in this, but Honolulu has been going through a long-running controversy about rail for years. I think we’ve finally decided on a steel-on-steel system, but there are still arguments about the route. The Leeward side of the island is booming, especially in the area around Kapolei. The November elections included a referendum on the system approved by the city council, with the mayor’s system winning support. The mayor’s opponents campaigned primarily on a platform opposing the rail project, now billed as “Honolulu’s Largest Public Works Project” (see link above).
Bob in HI
leaving WI tomorrow for MI, weather permitting!
BMAZ, let’s get the rail system expanded to Tucson. Going up I-10 is taking your life in your hands.
Having lived and been in and out of the DC area all my life, I can guarantee that people will use it. When I was stationed in the Pentagon my last tour, I did not even have a car, and I very seldom rent a car when I visit now. The Metro system is great and you should see how buildings, jobs, restaurants and people spring up around the stops.
Rail is the way to go – even in the great expanses of the Wild West.
Yeah, I would really like to see a high speed train between Phoenix and Tucson.
New Mexico’s ‘RailRunner‘ metro rail line seems to be doing pretty well, and connects Belen (south of Albuquerque) all the way through to Santa Fe (just recently opened)
One smart thing they did early on was to offer free fares, to get folks to try it. True, ridership fell after the free went away, but it’s been climbing pretty steadily and is expected to really take off as the ABQ-Santa Fe run becomes more popular. (Lots of commuters live in cheaper housing south, then drive to SF for work.)
My wife and I are planning to settle in the ABQ area sometime next year, and while browsing through the real estate ads, it’s quite interesting to see how many of them mention proximity to a given rail station as a big plus.
Yup, it’s a big plus. Too few home buyers add the real costs of commuting (or not) onto their mortgage. It’s a big deal when you run those numbers over five or ten years.
Welcome to New Mexico! Going back to EW’s (2) point, one of the smarter things done in Santa Fe and Albuquerque was the creation of leading edge “Green” bus lines. When I was growing up, Albuquerque had TERRIBLE bus service. Now the entire city is well served, on a par with the Mass. Mass transit system. Rail Runner now glues Albq. and SF together, but it uses the best technology of the 1800’s to do so. We need long distance bullet trains running in the median of the interstate system before gas goes back up to the natural price point of 2010 (10$/gal.) I know two years isn’t enough time, but if we could only get started…
Japan and France have done it. It is so wonderful to think that we are less evolved, technologically and politically than the cultures that brought us the bikini and Hello, Kitty!
“(Lots of commuters live in cheaper housing south, then drive to SF for work.)” May be a mistaken idea. New housing East of SF has pricing closer to Abq. west side prices. East side Abq. and SF proper prices are comparable. My feeling is that most people who live in the south and commute do so because as a top 40 city, Abq. has more to offer culturally, and a greater variety of (non-art) commercial shopping, better schools, and last but not least, a city laid out upon a grid system instead of cow trails. If you haven’t gotten lost, you haven’t driven in SF.
Boy, you got that right.
bmaz, congrats on the new train set.
In Boston, there are several trains–so I’m somewhat confused about which is equivalent to your new “light rail.”
I’ll just describe the Boston system, and maybe you can find what is helpful to you.
In Boston, proper, there is the electrified “subway” system, called “The T”–color coded like in NYC’s subway, or DC’s metro system, or London’s Tube system
and the diesel fuel-based Boston&Maine commuter rail trains, called the “commuter rail”,
as well as Amtrak terminals which connect with the two systems above.
We also have a bus system which connects to the above rail systems and to the privately run bus terminals (Greyhound, etc) at key places.
The subway, commuter rail, and public bus systems are all under the aegis of the “MBTA” (Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority), which issues updates to the train schedules (commuter rail has strict times, subway trains have strict open and closed times, but train frequency varies during the day depending on the MBTA’s best evaluation of commuter needs, I suppose, without a published schedule for commuters).
The Amtrak system is run by Amtrak (I believe–unless it is still in receivorship) and has a set train schedule.
Subway trains
While most of the subway lines are underground, at some point several routes come above ground, and the trains on those lines move at street grade in parallel to traffic or, at times, perpendicular to traffic.
Several subway lines extend past the Boston city limit to connect (above ground) to outlying towns and cities both north, south and west of Boston. There is little land to the east (because Boston is a coastal city), so no lines run in that direction. The MBTA does coordinate a ferry boat (something for Phoenix to consider for those hot 115 degree commuting days) that takes commuters eastward into Boston Harbor and then southward to a landing in Hingham Bay.
Thoughts thus far:
Avoid putting too many important city sites on one line (if you are planning to build more than one line).
The T’s “Green line” subway, the oldest of the subway lines in Boston and connects to many of the city’s important landmarks: North Station (commuter rail station that receives commuter trains from cities and towns north of Boston), North Station and Boston Garden are in the same building so it also carries sports enthusiasts to Celtics games and Bruins games there, Boston Common (Park Street stop), Museum of Fine Arts, Fenway Park, Prudential Center and Copley Place (shopping and convention space).
Also remember to build the railcars wide, else lots of time wasted waiting for people to ‘move inside’ to make room for others on the platforms on the green line. The Green line trains are narrow, likely due to historical reasons of accommodating preexisting city structures.
Most of the subway’s above-ground crossings in the city have only stoplights and horns to warn autos not to pass. As you push further into the suburbs, crossing gates are more standard or the trains go into overhead “tramway” mode. Ironically some of these elevated tramways have come down recently in Boston proper. So above ground and below ground can vary by time and place.
Parking is at a premium in the city, so large parking garages tend to exist at the end of each subway line. Commuters pay for parking on either a monthly parking pass or a pay per use basis.
Commuter rail
Commuter rail trains extend further than the Boston subway lines into the outlying cities and towns around Boston. Towns within the golden 1/2 hour commute find they are popular to drivers from further out. The parking lots have become crowded in recent years without “out of town” commuters’ cars. The towns closer to Boston on these commuterrail lines have retaliated by issuing “parking passes” to these town train depots to townspeople only. Parking garages are less common in the suburbs at these commuter train depots.
The commuter rail has traditionally been more popular in towns north and west of Boston. Recently, commuters south of Boston successfully petitioned to re-activate the commuter rail lines that lay dormant for decades. Commuters were happy but landowners abutting the train tracks put up a fight (not all commuters enjoyed the MBTA ferry ride come winter). You might want to look at that discussion (check Hingham, Hull, Cohasset town meetings) to learn why people within walking distance would voluntarily give up a commuter rail and then how they changed their minds several generations later and reinstituted it. I have no idea how the South Shore commuter line is doing.
One random point: I’ve noticed the commuter rails tend to have trouble with their A/C in the summers. The subway T rides rarely have A/C difficulty. Heat is usually not a problem for either type of train.
Train passes and tickets
Vistors to Boston can purchase tickets to the subway trains at each subway stop (aka, at each “T stop”).
You can also use a “Charlie card” which works like a debit card and deducts the fair from your balance each time you swipe it to pass through the turnstile or enter the train (if you are jumping on at street level). You can add money to your Charlie card at T stop kiosks.
Finally, there are commuter discounts if commuters sign up for monthly T passes. There are additional discounts if they sign up for “commuter status” at their offices in Boston. Participating offices receive the monthly passes at a discount and sell those passes to their employees at a cheaper price (It’s been a several years since I did this, so I don’t know the rates anymore).
The monthly passes are stratified as well: some allow just subway and bus use, others allow all the subways and bus as well as the commuter rail –prices vary depending on the how far from Boston you need to extend your service. On Sundays, pass holder were allowed to have a friend ride free with them. I don’t know if this program is still in effect but it might be one painless way to introduce the system to potential new riders.
Oh, I forgot all about SmartCard Passes. They’re terrific. They function pretty much like Starbucks cards or any other debit card, so you don’t have to carry cash (whew).
Also, out here we have a program called Commuter Trip Reduction (CTR), and any business (other than retail) that has 100 employees in one location has to participate to meet state regs. Under CTR, companies that subsidize commuter passes for bus, vanpool, and train get a tax deduction. The program is implemented and monitored through the transit agencies, but funded by the state.
Last time I was involved in one of these conversations, Boeing had 6 F/T employees whose job was implementing CTR by helping Boeing employees figure out how to reduce commute times and commuter miles. Microsoft, Univ of Washington, WaMu** and other large regional employers subsidize commute passes, including vanpools, buses, and train options, and they also pay people to help their companies implement CTR.
**I’ve not kept up with the number of WaMu employees still getting paid in my region but had a huge new skyscraper in downtown Seattle, co-constructed with the Seattle Art Museum. (Back in the heady days a mere two years ago…)
Yes, there is a similar tax incentive for businesses in Boston to have their employees sign up to use the subway/commuter rail. Commuters also receive a break on their car insurance rates if they can provide proof of purchase of monthly T passes.
The fares per trip are cheaper for people using the reusable CharlieCard. One time tickets for single destination costs maybe ten or twenty-five cents more.
I forget now what the logic of the old Kingston Trio song about the MTA was — remember? Charlie got on the train but he couldn’t get off? (I think he needed one more nickel?)
Was it a commuter train or Amtrak that I would have taken from Boston to Salem one day in 1985? Arrangements in Boston were fine, but the stop in Salem was in a residential district some distance from the town centre; I was on foot, and there were none of the directions I would have expected. I think I could see the harbour, though, or I had a sense of where it must be, so I just zigzagged in that direction and finally got there. Definitely worth the walk — I got to see the very room in the Customs House where Nathaniel Hawthorne worked — beautifully kept building, Hawthorne’s own walking stick leaning against the wall next to a coatrack — that made me cry.
I only discovered when I got there that most of the story of the witchcraft trials belongs to the town to the northwest (?), Danvers, which was Salem Village in the day. I bought a brilliant social history at the museum that explained it all to me.
Please excuse the OT nostalgia. I love trains, and am very sorry that we took apart the oldest section of our transcontinental line, the original CPR. We really need to rethink train transport in this country. The politicians have ruined passenger service by cutting back service and raising prices, which seems to me deliberately perverse.
Toronto doesn’t have a light-rail service exactly, although some other Canadian cities (Calgary, Vancouver) do. We have a subway that could be better and some of the great old streetcar lines, much better than buses. There is a commuter train, the GO train, that runs along Lake Ontario from Hamilton in the west to … (not sure how far east it goes) and then has some northbound spurs. It shares at least some tracks with the railway. I find it very slow and boring, much as I usually like trains. The whole system feels old and creaky, as though no one’s given it serious thought for a generation at least — see deliberate perversity above.
In 1985, I believe it was the commuter rail… AMTRAK came later.
I was born and lived in Salem for about 25 years…
Use to commute to Boston for my jobber.
All good memories.
Salem has really changed… overpopulated for one, due to marketing
the Witch City emblem, as a cottage industry.
We lived about two minutes from the ocean, near Forest River Park…
close to Pioneer Village, where the Mayflower was once docked?
Yes, I agree. The commuter rail train, if taken from North Station in Boston, will carry you to Salem, MA and back.
Haven’t seen Salem’s Custom House, but I like the hidden staircase that wraps behind the fireplace and leads to a hidden bedroom in the House of Seven Gables in Salem, MA. You enter the staircase through a broom closet/wood storage closet to the left of the mantel.
Yes, I didn’t realize the “The MTA Song” was known beyond Boston, so I didn’t mention it.
Here’s a website with all the lyrics and information you would ever want to know.
“Charlie” was stuck on what likely became the “green line” subway car, because he didn’t have the money (5 cents) to pay an “exit fare” that was require in those days.
Made famous by the Kingston Trio I believe
Absolutely must give a shoutout to the commenter on The Field who made that song into Hillary on the campaign plane.
Did he ever return,
No he never returned
And his fate is still unlearn’d
He may ride forever
‘neath the streets of Boston
He’s the man who never returned.
Interestingly enough, this was a political protest song, written for the Progressive Party’s candidate for mayor of Boston. The MTA (now MBTA) handled fare increases by leaving the base fare unchanged, but adding an exit fare based on how far you had traveled. So, presumably someone could get on, but not have enough money to get off. Hence, the story of Charlie.
The candidate was attacked as a Communist at the time, but the character from the song is now used as the public face of the subway system. Interesting how the subversive materials of yesterday are the children’s songs of today.
More info at this MIT site: Charlie on the MTA
Didn’t know about this verse:
Now you citizens of Boston,
Don’t you think it’s a scandal
That the people have to pay and pay
Vote for Walter A. O’Brien
Fight the fare increase!
And fight the fare increase
Vote for George O’Brien!
Get poor Charlie off the MTA.
The Kingston Trio version goes:
“that the people have to pay and pay
fight the fair reprieve
Vote for George O’brien”
apparently the actual politicain was Walter A. O’Brien
But the name was changed
That cracks me up!
I knew the song (I was a teen during the folk revival of the 60’s) long before I moved to Boston. I couldn’t figure out why he needed another nickel, til I got there. There was a similar charge on the Green Line, at least in those days (the ’70’s)–a quarter for the ride caught underground, then another quarter when you got off aboveground, as I did, living just off Beacon & Washington Sts i Brookline. When you got on in Brookline, you paid the whole fifty cents if you were going all the way underground. It was weird to me, but I got used to it, and when riding a new transit system, I always ask if it costs anything more when you get off. (sometimes the drivers give me strange looks)
Light rail is most like the Green Line trains, which go aboveground as well as thru the subway tunnels. See example here, if I’m not clear:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wi…..Line_B.jpg
Now, of course, when I last lived there, those cars, above, were brand-new. Most of my years there were spent riding the old PCC cars:
http://www.wickedgood.info/images/pan8.jpg
Funny you said there are few problems with heat or ac. I don’t think the PCC’a had a/c – the windows actually opened.
But my worst nightmare was waiting after work, in summer, at Park ST Stn. for the Comm. Ave train to arrive, and realizing that the one that just pulled in is the one on which the heat couldn’t be turned off!!!
BTW, as I now live in san Antonio, Texas, and we have only buses – light rail keeps being defeated by the voters, most of whom hve never ridden public transit and can’t imagine it– key to waiting for bus/train/trolley is covered bus stops, at least. It isn’t a/c, but just being out of the sun makes the wait bearable.
6) What else do I need to consider, or do we need to discuss here?
bicycle accessability
we have buses with bike racks in my town (no subways or trains though) it makes getting around a lot easier
I can ride my bike to the bus stop, catch a bus to a town 25 miles away, conduct my business on my bike, then catch the bus back to my home town
and it costs about $1.25
and you might want to consider that I been waitin for 35 years for BART to reach the Central Valley …
so don’t dream to big about any future expansion, it prolly won’t happen in
my lifetime, er, uhm, your lifetime …Yeah, bike racks on buses are very useful and I’ve found them a great way to go. Problem is that in my region, only two bikes fit on each bus rack, so I’ve sometimes had to wait for the next bus (thank heavens for iPod and podcasts).
Who knew that so many Ewheelies are transit mavens?
I’m amazed.
More random, cool transit-related items:
Free WiFi on Sound Transit buses and some train cars
http://www.soundtransit.org/x6083.xml
Sound Transit main page: languages on bottom of page listed in English + their script (note to JohnLopresti – you can read the ST schedule in [Russian in Cyrillic script + the word ‘Russian’ in English alphabet]
Plus: http://www.soundtransit.org/x6098.xml
– Find out where your bus is on any phone with Text Messaging
– Find out where your bus is on a WAP-enabled phone
– Find out where you bus is on your Palm Pilot
bmaz –
Charlotte NC has the beginnings of a light rail system you might want to investigate.
http://www.charmeck.org/Departments/CATS/Home.htm
This appears to be the official web site whose sub-links might shed more light on some of your questions.
Denver has had a light rail system for a few years. It is currently expanding with a line to Golden. Stations have Park-n-ride facilities. Additionally there is bus service (buses have bike racks).
http://www.rtd-denver.com/LightRail/lrmap.htm
Through much controversy generated by local newspapers (overspending/accusations of cronysism and more), various competing private interests and others, we (New Mexico) just launched the RAIL RUNNER connecting Albuquerque to Santa Fe, and the thing’s been sold out.
Santa Fe is only a bit over 30 miles from ABQ, but there’s a nasty hill just before you get there. Every winter, black ice induced accidents frequent there.
But the RUNNER is not hi-speed, just fancy painted good o’le electric-diesel.
My wife & I had differing opinions through planning stages… she thought it was a waste. Beginning to look otherwise now. In short, folks who favor making either city home can now have a relaxing trip to work in the “other city”, a condition that bodes well for both areas.
…
Not so unique to Phoenix (look at LA), but at least they’ve got it going… so good for them.
A bit less effective (sic) than your new metro, but I’m reminded of several “100 year floods” in Salt River (connecting Scottsdale to Tempe) in late 70’s through the 80’s… washed out bridge & subsequent “reconstruction” and all. You’re (bmaz) a lifer there, so I’m guessing you know it well…///???
An amusing story of Maricopa Co. planning through that era, one I still repeat when motivated by some current demonstration of bureaucratic ineptitude.
The new light rail system along the Rio Grande in New Mexico began its daily schedule between ABQ and Santa Fe just a couple of weeks ago. Ridership tripled within the week. Not a particularly well thought out system, but a significant step in the right direction.
Try it for a day. Just to see.
The Charlotte CATS is interesting, though it’s having to discuss schedule changes for the new year because of state budget squeezes.
And the Charlie Card isn’t quite a debit card: it’s a stored value card, a bit like the Oyster card in London. The equivalent in Hong Kong, the Octopus card, can be used for lots of other purchases, too, so you can buy a newspaper or coffee with it.
The thing about light rail is that, unlike buses, it stimulates housing and other construction: Since it can’t be readily changed the way bus routes can be changed, housing and retail businesses spring up alongside of it.
The healthiest housing markets in the Twin Cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul are those along or near the Hiawatha Line, which right from the start was showing ridership of double to triple the initial projections; they’ve already had to add more cars and now must make the platforms longer so they can run longer trains to accomodate the ridership demand.
i happen to work across from a light rail stop near the heard museum. while i am unable to use it for daily commuting (e.g. i live near PV mall and i visit my dad every other night in a Scottsdale Assisted Living Community), i am nonetheless excited about being able to take care of all of my lunchtime chores on lightrail!
i also disagree about its usage during the summer. i see a LOT of people waiting for buses along the stretch of Central that i frequent; these same people will be waiting for Light Rail now, and we’ll have significantly fewer buses spewing nastiness into the already polluted summer air. i’ve read a lot about people claiming that ‘no one’ will ride this. i think its more like ‘no one like us or anyone we know will ride it’, but i think there will be a lot of people riding it who can’t afford cars. even though this is a car centric place cars aren’t affordable to everyone.
also regarding the heat, i’d rather wait on a 115 degree platform than climb INTO my 135 degree or hotter car at lunchtime. after four years here i’ve found that i’d rather walk in the heat than get into a hot car. By the time the AC cools the car, i’m at my destination…and then i start all over when i return.
the one thing that light rail didn’t plan was to keep cars from parking on the tracks. A couple of weeks ago during the test run, some brainiac parked on the tracks and went off to do their business or attend their meeting or visit their doctor or something like that. The cops ended up having the car of said brainiac towed off the tracks. I bet that the owner probably thought it had been STOLEN when they returned…
Critical to making commuter trains work if you have a dispersed population away from the “core” is to have a well developed system of TIMED feeder buses and shuttles. Making sure that buses arrive before the trains come in and depart after the off-load is critical. That may mean a five minute stop at the terminal.
As well, make sure the trains have stops at the Universities, major hospitals, museums and the entertainment district, sports arena, and to the airport. It was one of the big errors to have the light-rail stop about a quarter mile from the University campus…with a large railroad berm separating the campus from the station. This meant that it took a mile walk to get to the station. After 10 years they finally made a bike/pedestrian tunnel under the tracks. Now the system is used far more by students. The folks that run the Sports arena parking (ceded to the Pro basketball team) have fought having the light rail go out there. Ditto with the cab companies serving the airport.
Have enough security at stops near public schools, with staff telling the kids (and announcements) about losing riding privileges if they eat food, play music or engage in unsuitable behavior on the trains or at the stations. Our district allows only beverages that have a top to be consumed on the trains.
The Transit Authority should rent out at reasonable fees spots for food carts, news kiosks, and other amenities near the station. Since it’s so hot in the area maybe have those “wet fans” available…perhaps on a timer or managed by staff on super-hot days.
Have an area on the cars for bikes. Though as more people are commuting and using bikes to reach their more distant work spots there often is never enough room. This is also a problem with bikes on the buses…the racks only can hold two bikes. Perhaps they should have them front and back.
Um –
The platforms are air conditioned, courtesy of the solar cells on top.
My parking lot downtown is three blocks from the office. The LR station is three blocks from the office. My parking is $1/hour. LR is $2.50 round trip and is going to be subsidised by my employer.
There are a huge number of workes in Downtown, Midtown and Uptown Phoenix, all right along the LR route. And all those people have to pay parking, just like me.
This system is not meant for people in Avondale or Peoria or out near Loop 101. It’s meant for Phoenix. The same Phoenix that used to have a very nice trolly system that covered the same route up until the 1940s.
I rode it today, and guess what? I’ll ride it to work on Monday too. I like it. Saves me time, money and effort. What more could I want?
(And, btw – “Santa Fe is only a bit over 30 miles from ABQ, but there’s a nasty hill just before you get there.” Santa Fe is, according to Mapquest: Estimated Time: 1 hour 2 minutes Estimated Distance: 63.36 miles)
Yeah, they have had “solar powered air conditioned bus stops” before and they were pretty worthless I hear, although they may have improved them since then. It will be good i guess for those that work along the Washington/Jefferson and Central Avenue corridors. Lotta lawyer offices on those two corridors; not sure how many lawyers will really ride the Valley Metro to be honest. I hope they do. I wish the thing had an East Camelback route into Arcadia. Well, I say that but, on the other hand, don’t really want the tracks and those damn wires strung up top gacking up Camelback Road, so maybe I really don’t want it here now that I think about it.
Hi, bmaz, fellow Phoenician here… I’m digging the shiny new train, too.
I offer up this link to Jon Talton’s
celebrationthoughts on the matter.We just instituted a light rail system in North County San Diego from Esconido west to Oceanside where one may transfer to the coaster going into San Diego or the Metro Link to LA.
It has decent ridership but is surely not paying for itself at this point–there are incredible problems trying to begin commuter train service. It doesn’t go from where you are to where you need to go for most people- and in many cases the frequency may be too low and the cut off times to early…
People are bitching moaning and complaing about it- but in twenty-thirty years many things will have changed:
The freeways will be even MORE crowded
The price of gasoling will be $10 per gallon
People will have adjusted either their jobs or their residence so that the route gets them where they want to go…
In the very long run, these commuter trains will be a lifesaver- but it will be decades before that shows..Taxpayers then will recognize that it was far sighted to have made the investment when we did.
The state of California also voted in favor of fast rail sevice between San Francisco and San Diego and points in between. It should get us from downtown San Diego to Downtown San Francisco in two and a half hours or so without hassles…eventually such a train could extend all the way up the west coast to Portland and Seattle…
There is probably a limit to the distance in which these fast trains are practical. Anything much over 1,000 miles and people will prefer to fly- even at 200 mph it just takes too long to go all the way across the country for example.
If you are really interested in this issue, go to where these things are running. Here in Minnesota, it took a pro-rasslin’ gov to get ONE light-rail line built. It was built on time and under budget–at a price WELL below the new 35W / 494 interchange, BTW. The development along the line is proceeding normally. Ridership is well above estimates.
And now, everyone else wants their own transit links.
This debate is OVER. There is no city on earth that pretends to be a real city that does not have light rail.
By the way, the history of the trolley systems in this country and how they were destroyed by the “bus” industry makes great reading. A cosortium of “bus” producers were buying up trolley lines in order to destroy them and provide the modern up to date “motorbus” which would whisk us safely and quickly along the new modern roads and highways we were busy building at the time.
If I am not mistaken, General Motors played a role in this stupidity- as well as the oil companies.
I tried riding a bus once in the middle of the summer here…. about 20 minutes of waiting nearly killed me in the 100+ temps…. I saw one little girl get on with her mother; the girls was almost ready to pass out. She was red in the face, no longer sweating. Luckily the bus was cool enough that the fanning and the water brought her body temp down again.
So, the first thing I checked when the schedules came out was the frequency…. 10 minutes between trains…. Each platform has shading that blocks the sun, not absorbs it (you would be surprised at how hot it can get when the shade structures absorb the sun). Heat-shedding paint on metal surfaces… It should be much better than the bus for those who depend on mass transit.
The corridor they chose to build on is the old route 60 street route…. All bad and rundown… Land values have doubled and tripled along the corridor and the plans for building are moving forward in most cases, despite the foul economic conditions (my house, far away from the light rail, has dropped in value 30% in comparison).
Arizona State University is right on the line that opened… It’s a commuter campus mostly, and parking is $300 – $700 a year, so students will probably make up a large portion of the ridership.
Greetings Wiggen and Petro, glad to see you both here. I too will be interested to see how much the ASU populous uses it. Parking really is getting to be a huge issue around ASU and downtown Tempe. It would be good to eliminate some of that traffic.
bmaz, that’s exactly what’s needed to get people, especially students, riding it.
And when they realize they can do their studying on the train, instead of wasting all that driving time, they’ll be hooked.
When I first left Boston for a rural western state, I really resented wasting so much of my time in the car. I hadn’t realized how much of my reading was done “on-line,” until I realized how little pleasure reading I was getting done in mynew location.
I think you are right. The issue/problem I see here is that everything is so sprawled out here as far as where people live. My fear is that if people have to get in their car to drive to catch a Railcar, they will just drive to where they are going instead of using the rail. Hope I am wrong about that.
http://www.newday.com/films/Taken_for_a_Ride.html
Link to a description of a film called “Taken for a Ride” about how General Motors destroyed the “trolley” industry in the US to make room for it’s buses…
Interesting link. Will have to check it out in more detail.
Makes sense that there would be corporate forces working behind the market to force changes/restrictions on the options of would-be commuters/customers.
Here’s part of a very good review of the film:
Conventional wisdom has it wrong, according to Taken for a Ride. The program presents evidence that he culprit was not the automobile itself, but automobile maker General Motors. In 1922, GM chairman Alfred P. Sloan Jr. in effect declared war on the streetcar. In league with Standard Oil, Mack Trucks, Firestone Tires and later Phillips Petroleum and Greyhound, GM set out to destroy the nation’s streetcar lines by systematically buying up system after system and replacing the streetcars with buses manufactured by GM, of course, all with the ultimate aim of getting people to buy cars also manufactured by GM.
That General Motors succeeded goes without saying. What Taken for a Ride documents is the terrible price that has been paid. As trolley lines were abandoned, service was cut and fares increased. Particularly heartbreaking was the dismemberment of Los Angeles’ 1,000 mile Pacific Electric system, described by one former employee as the “Rolls-Royce” of transit systems in one poignant segment. PE’s new bus-oriented owners put a whole scrap yard of streetcars to the torch in a giant auto-da-fe.
Retired transit workers, urban activists, harried automobile commuters, even former San Francisco Mayor Joseph Alioto are brought forward to lay out the case for the streetcar and against the auto. What GM started was finished off by the highway lobby, which saw to it that public funds were funneled into roads and freeways.
The final blow was delivered by construction of the interstate highway system, proposed in the 1950s by Secretary of Defense and former GM chairman Charles E. Wilson. After that, public transportation systems, both streetcar and bus, entered a deadly cycle of reduced services and higher fares. And GM? By 1946, the U.S. Justice Department had begun an investigation that led to indictments of GM and its partners for criminal antitrust violations, and ultimately to convictions. The punishment? Each company had to pay a $5,000 fine. One executive was fined a dollar. Taken for a Ride is fleshed out with marvelous vintage footage of streetcars and with clips from automobile company propaganda films depicting the glorious new world of freeways.
No wonder the car companies too private jets to the Congressional hearings. Taking a train would have undone all their “good” work.
Did emptywheel, in her capacity as consultant to Ford, have access to the Ford archives?
GM is not all there is to this story. A great book on the rise of auto/truck transport and the decline of the railroads is Getting There: The Epic Struggle between Road and Rail in the American Century, by Stephen Goddard. It was written in the mid 1990s and is largely the story of yet one more of the extremely powerful and canny early and mid 20th century federal bureaucrats, such as J. Edgar Hoover (FBI) and Floyd Dominy (USBR). This one is Thomas McDonald, the founder of what became the Federal Highway Administration.
Also re #74& 75
What’s the matter with these people, the producers of Taken for a Ride I mean? Don’t they understand the concept of price elasticity? What individual is going to rent this for $55? And when you can buy most movies right off first run for $25 or less, what individual will purchase this for $225? They would probably do much better financially by dropping their purchase prices by an order of magnitude and striking a licensing deal with Netflix. From Netflix’s 10-K form at the latter link:
It’s no wonder that this important documentary is not available on Netflix if they have to buy it for the $225 they charge “institutions” (colleges and universities), assuming they’ll even sell it to a for-profit company for that price.
It is a question of having a national transportation plan and committing the resources to it. As long as there are a few stray lines here and there they will have only limited utility. Peak energy is a reality and despite the current recession isn’t that far off. We should be using the time now to begin to build a new national mass transit system. Part of this will mean that our communities will need to be redesigned to mesh with the new transportation system. Again long term planning and long term commitment, two things we do very poorly.
This is a really nice article by Jana Bommersbach about the old Phoenix Trolly System.
It is a great article, worth reading the whole thing.
David Gregory on NBC talking about how Hamas is a terrorist organization that Israel is trying to replace. He seems to have missed the part where they were the duly elected government, but elections only count if they put the people we want in power. Have I mentioned recently what a stupid git David Gregory is?
You probably didn’t see the article in the NYT a few days ago about how Islamist organizations are the only valve for dissent in countries like Jordan, even. Hamas is an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood as well. And they are both a terrorist organization and the elected government of somewhere that no one sane wanted to live 10 years ago. Sorry bmaz for disrupting the thread. I wanted to add also that this cutting off the train service after 7 pm may reduce crime but is insane if you want increased ridership from UMSL on the train.
Do you think you could get Jimmy Carter to discuss Palestine, peace not apartheid? It has been out a while, but it seems very timely.
I’ve been commuting on the Blue Line from Long Beach to Los Angeles for several years now. For one thing, I would have had to buy a new car long ago. . And, there’s lots of people on it who don’t have cars at all. I’m a teacher, so my hours are shorter than most workers, and the morning commuters are different than the early afternoon ones. Lots of people would have to be working in their own–perhaps depressed–neighborhood without the train. And don’t forget the folks no longer driving, or handicapped, or just released from some institution or another.
For another, I’ve got in a lot more reading than I would have otherwise.
Very interesting Broder op/ed up at wapo. Broder says that the remaining goopers in congress have an extreme conservsative/southern bias and may succeed in creating a record for the GOP that will further alienate every other region of the country….VERY Intersting reading.
That is interesting….Mark Shields said pretty mcy the same thing last night on The Newshour when he described the way the Repub. have become a regional party. Wonder if they will be smart enough to make some changes.
Ooops…that word is pretty “much”…sorry.
Very good- but very complicated question….
Who is “they”?
The southern gooper congresscritters are the power of the party- and they have no interest in change…
The “base” are more interested in gays, guns, and zygotes than the mechanics of politics and they have no real opportunity to change anything anyway…
Who would do the changing?
The Plantation caucus?
Plantation Party?
can’t recall, coined by Maddow.
A senior in San Diego County can purchase a monthly pass for $16 that allows them to go anywhere anytime….Damned cheap transportation!
chooo-choooooo. chuga-chuga; chuga-chuga
it’s like that dopey movie that i hate…. build it and they’ll come.
Since the goopers became infested with rightwing crazies, southerners, and snakehandlers- it has become impossible for a sane person to win a gooper primary…how does one extract oneself from one’s own membership?- cause THEY are the problem.
Julia is upstairs at the Mothership!
Caroline Kennedy – “I have to work twice as hard”
Here is a general site on Metrolink showing how it has expanded. Citizens for Modern Transit is an excellent link on this site.
Metrolink is very popular to go to and from downtown for work and sporting events. Cost overrruns have made it unpopular enough that Proposition M in St. Louis County was narrowly defeated. Proposition M would have kept the bus and Metrolink transit systems as they were, and they are now looking at severe cuts.
To question 3 the answer is a resounding “Yes”. We are already seeing development around the new Metrolink site in Maplewood.
I don’t have any kind of light rail where I live which is a shame, because the tri-city capital district of New York State has current and former rail lines going in almost every direction. We also have one of the 10 busiest Amtrak stations (over in Rensselaer) which would be a real plus for people making connections.
I’ve ridden the D.C. subway, and it’s a marvel. As I understand it, it has now gotten big enough and is ridden by enough people that the anti-rail forces aren’t grumbling so much about how expensive it is to build and how long it’s taking. It’s just proving to be too useful. And despite the problems in placing stations, that’s partly ameliorated by good bus service along routes that go right by stations.
From some of the great rail diaries at Daily Kos, like this 2007 5 part series, I’ve picked up some appreciation for what we could have, given the political will.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..3135/63420
Let me add just as few observations about what makes a rail system work, in no particular order.
1) Signage is critical. People should be able to find the information they need where they need it and when they need it as easily as possible. Are route maps easy to figure out? When do the trains run? Which train is this coming now, and do I want to get on it – and where will I want to get off? Where is parking? Restrooms? Ticket booths? Connections to bus or taxi service? Police? Telephones? What’s near the station I’m at? (And in what languages should this all be?) Having humans at strategic points to answer questions doesn’t hurt either.
2) Make it as easy to ride as possible. The D.C. system has automatic ticket machines that dispense cards with magnetic stripes. You just swipe them to get through turnstyles. Letting people buy tickets with a credit card as easily as they buy gas, or use some kind of easy pass helps. Making passes useable on other transport modes works too – as say bus passes. Letting people get monthly or other discount passes is also good.
3) Connectivity with other transport modes is critical. Bus routes and train lines should work to feed each other, with stops and scheduling. People should be able to get taxis easily. Pedestrian access is critical. Making it easy for people to get out of their cars and onto the trains is a no-brainer. Don’t forget bicycles either. Places for people to leave them securely, or ways to bring them along can expand the reach of a rail system beyond walking distances. If you’ve got a major airport or other transit nexus, getting a rail link to it makes all kinds of sense.
4) Zoning and planning around a rail corridor can make/break a system. Allowing for mixed commercial/residential use and higher densities near rail lines will help ensure there will be people to ride the lines at all hours, not just morning and evening rush times. So will allowing for development without requiring massive parking lots.
5) Making elected officials use the system is one of the best ways to make sure it works and gets the resources it needs. Giving government employees access to discount transit passes, ditto for employers who want them for their workers also helps ensure ridership and support for the system.
That’s just a few ideas – there’s plenty more good ones out there.
Among the things threatened when Proposition M did not pass was cutting off all Metrolink service after 7 pm.
Swopa is up at the Mothership!
Iraqi Politics Moves Toward a Post-Occupation Phase (Perhaps Too Soon)
Good gravy, they attacked Gaza today?
In general, rail systems grow up alongside their cities. Trying to retofit…I don’t think anyone knows how. Watch Washington County, Oregon, west of Portland. That has become a test lab for this problem. Urban plans which depend on the primary use of automobiles are past their “sell by” date, so I suppose we will work something out, but I don’t think anyone knows what, yet. Much depends on the price of fuel, the availability of quality automobiles, and the direction of government subsidies–there would after all be no interstate highway system without the federal government. Expect dislocations in urban plans. On the other hand, once solutions are found and begin to take hold, expect them to take off like wildfire. The old trolley suburbs are some of the most comfortable urban forms ever devised, and if modern suburbs can be retrofitted into those forms, they will probably be immensely popular.
Medium-range high-speed intercity rail–for distances like that between LA and SF or, for that matter, Phoenix and LA–is a very practical idea. The only thing that has held it back is political opposition.
The point about real estate values increasing (or not losing value) seems to be born out by several reports. Voila – development. This is most true with well run rail systems.
Phoenix’ system will probably follow what has happened in many other communities. For the first 5 years development will seem slow, after that time the cumulative effect will be obvious. The other circumstance that will affect the rate of development will be the price of oil. Once the economy begins to recover it’s likely to rise again. The rise had the effect of pushing many homeowners in distant exurbs over the edge financially. Places like Palmdale are nearly ghost towns while areas near the rail transit in LA are thriving.
It will be a combination of factors some of which we won’t know for some time, ie. economic recovery in the US.
Obama has promised ‘green jobs’ programs. Development near transit stops will definitely rate more funding under this program than the sprawl we’ve experienced since WWII.
Yes, from everything that I’ve seen, the prices take a few years to start upwards, and a lot depends on how good the design is, and what kinds of social dynamics occur.
After 8 years of Bush (really, 28 years going back to Reagan in 1980), there’s nothing but opportunity for Obama’s administration as far as I’m concerned. There’s a lot that could be done, and much of it involves improved community and building design, and there’s a pretty solid body of research showing that translates into improved safety.
One of the things that cities seldom do is bring their cops in to sit in on the planning projects; a smart cop can add a lot of value to a project by spotting potential safety problems that designers can then address from the earliest stages. Those involve things as simple as landscaping — and both safety and ‘amenities’ like plants lead to higher property values.