Who Killed the Combustion Car?
I have to admit, it’s pretty gloomy in MI right now. Suppliers are doing quarterly plans–but putting a giant asterisk on the plan saying "If GM fails, we don’t know WTF happens." Ford is trying to anticipate how they can chase down and reclaim the tools from dying suppliers in time to keep their own supply chain alive. And a local environmentally-focused pol and I started plotting yesterday to turn MI into the beacon of new agriculture–not just because we’ve got the foundation to do so, not just because we need to think about what to do when our economy dies completely, but out of spite at the Californians who seem ready to jettison the Midwest and its jobs of late (soon their dying way of irrigation-dependent industrial Ag will be begging MI for a bailout!).
So it’s tough getting back on the automobile beat, when I can just blithely read tea leaves in the Blago mess. That said, readers are rightly kicking me in the ass for avoiding this very important subject. So I’m watching an empty Senate on CSPAN 2 and making a list: a list of all those who, either out of self-interest or because they are salivating to bust the union, have decided to let the American auto industry–and with it, the economy more generally–die.
That list starts, of course, with the self-interested union-busters: Richard Shelby, Bob Corker, Jeff Sessions. Mitch McConnell has officially jumped onto the union-busting Japanese SUV, though it goes against the interest of a goodly number of his constituents. And Jim DeMint seems anxious to jump to the head of this class, with his call to free car companies from the "barnacles of unionism wrapped around their necks."
Fuck you, Jim DeMint.
But I am taking a perverse kind of solace out of the discovery that the guy who’s on top of all my other shit lists is on top of this one too.
Dick Cheney.
You see, Dick went to Congress to try to get them on board with the idea of saving the auto industry. And that made it worse.
Yesterday, [in spite of Cheney’s similar failure at rallying support for the financial bailout in September] White House nevertheless dispatched Bolten and Cheney to meet with Senate Republicans about the auto bailout plan, where they “heard a barrage of criticism — and offered few satisfying answers.” “They probably left with less support than they came in with,” said Sen. Bob Corker (R-TN). Sen. John Sununu (R-NH) said that Bolten and Cheney were unconvincing, admitting “that the bill wasn’t as strong as they would have liked.
Dick Cheney. Your one stop object of blame for all the US’ failures in the last eight years.
There is a tiny bright spot in this (we need it here in MI, we’re short on bright spots in the winter, which is the biggest problem with my new Ag plot).
It is increasingly clear that if this bridge loan fails, the responsibility will ultimately rest with George Bush, and particularly his refusal to let Treasury or the Fed take any actions directly, which wouldn’t require any Congressional action. As failure looks more likely, I think it more likely that Bush will be forced to reverse that stance.
A pity that the union-busting assholes like Jim DeMint–and not a principled stand from Democrats in Congress–would be what brings that about.
Richard Shelby, on the Senate floor, with a filibuster.
in addition to
you have earlier mentioned that everyone from Florida will be buying farm land in MI when Florida is underwater…
Daddy took my T bird away.
See!?!?!?
We can get back at BOTH FL and CA.
Big problem is that AL will still be getting tons of federal money into Huntsville. Gotta find a way to undercut that to get back at those turds.
Here’s Froomkin’s lead today:
The caving? Says Froomkin:
Dems cave and the GOP gets angry. That sums up a lot more than just the auto bailout.
EW; I don’t get your dig at Cal AG business. I’m stuck in BF Egypt, south of Sacratomateo where there’s many small farms. While AG business used to get free water in SoCal, much coming from NorCal, I don’t know the current status on water fees. Also Calif. is third in unemployment in the US (GO TEAM) so taking no existent jobs from MI is nonsensical.
BTW, Congress, DINO’s and ReThugs, don’t give a rats ass about its constituents, except during the election cycle. They are unable to see past their corporate noses on the effect their legislation has on us or the rest of the world.
USA, RIP
My dig is twofold (and not meant as a personal slight–I was even trying this with a staffer in teh Senate this morning!)
1) Democrats have been cool to a loan because they want to impose environmental restrictions without–at the same time–realizing they’re making economic demands on companies trying to stay in business. It’s not that I don’t absolutely agree with those demands, but many people believe they can just make those demans, without doing what you need to do to alter demand (gas tax) accordingly, though doing so sort of defeats the purpose of a bailout.
2) I do believe that MI seriously under-develops it alternative ag, though its one of the best suited both because of diversity (which only CA has more of), but also the water and city structure to pull it off. CA doesn’t have the latter–and a lot of its ag still serves national markets. So, again, no slight to the wonderful farmers in CA, whose food I love, but I’m just suggesting that that is an area where MI ought to be leading more than it is.
We wouldn’t be taking jobs from you (though we do still lead, even before a GM failure), we’d be building jobs internally and regionally.
I think you guys are shipping us rhubarb – it’s possible to grow it in CA, but it’s a lot easier in places where it’s cooler (or wetter) in the summer.
Mother Nature with CO2 in the arctic.
Boxturtle (Cheney killed American Automakers. There’s a difference)
Yeah, but it makes for a less snappy title.
No, No, dude
we’re tryin to figure out who killed the combustion car, not mankind
If what I read from Monboit about 5 years back is true, we’re already doomed, cuz of melting Co2 pools in the artic, anybody heard of this ???
Hey, you promised 10% discount on new obscenities all month. I’m taking you up on it. Where’s the catalogue?!
Methane hydrates under the Arctic Ocean.
Doomed, yes. (Actually, we wouldn’t lose all the Valley unless the oceans rose a whole lot. Fresno would be a seaport, at 100ft.)
ever been to fresno ???
let’s just say, San Francisco, it ain’t
Let’s also just say that as a seaport it will no longer be the Fresno we know. As the p-e might say [and rarely so appropriately, I would think], this should be viewed not as a tragedy but as an opportunity.
Fresca?
heh heh, he’s freep, and he’ll be here all week. don’t forget to tip your waiters
I’ve been through it enough, thanks (I am quite familiar with 99).
My bad – the map I was looking at is in meters. Better. Moves the seaport to Merced or something. Stockton and Sacramento would be way gone, though.
I’m sure Cheney really did his best trying to convince those Senators. I can just see that smirk as he told them to vote for it.
I hope Obama lets them know that they will regret this next year.
Meanwhile, I still think it’s going to pass.
MI has lots of factory space and lots of factory workers.
Reckon all that could be retooled for solar apparatus production?
The time is right, the government is about to get right, and I think us ordinary folks are about to get right.
Those of us who have homes at least.
Solar energy doesn’t have to be a complicated matter.
All of it, no. Some of it, maybe.
A few of those factories are approching a century old, and many are beyond their useful life. Most have environmental problems on the site, some severe.
The UAW isn’t popular with the folks currently doing solar. There will have to be a meeting of the minds or else the south will continue to get the work.
Boxturtle (And for some reason, GM doesn’t want to part with some that it’s closing anyway)
OT breaking: Portugal says they will take Gitmo prisoners who can’t go anywhere else. There goes Bush’s final reason for keeping it open…
Is this new? if not it is not OT as we have the hon. gentleman from MI to thank for reporting that Rummy is responsible for prisoner abuse.
with some help from (yikes) the hon. maverick from AZ. Bmaz help us here.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12…..ee.html?hp
EW,
United we stand, Divided we fall. Please don’t yell at Californians. After all, it was pelosi who found the money to use for the bailout from her energy retooling bill. Direct your ire at Bush and Paulson who would not use the money from TARP. I don’t think it’s extraordinary to want the money that was passed for one purpose to have some vestige.
If the companies wanted to stay in business, they should have been retooling. Ford doesn’t need the money at the moment? Why, because it ran it’s business better.
I don’t want Michigan to die, my sister lives there. But you have to admit that propping up an industry/company that is producing items that people don’t want is like state sponsored businesses in state run economies. They invariably don’t work. Anything done now is a bandaid, and there should be no reason not to ask companies to at least look to a different way of doing things in order to innovate and survive.
I am like you damn proud of my state. If you look at the difference in LA from the early sixties to today, you see far less smog. If you experienced the beauty every day (as well as the horrendous traffic) you’d want the environment protected. I went out last winter and the bay had tons of pods of dolphins. My mom said she never saw such a thing when she was a child. So environmental goals do have positive impact.
Why shouldn’t citizens of a state with 12% of the population (and only two damned senators) be able to demand products that meet certain standards? If a company can’t meet those standards, why shouldn’t we be able to say we don’t want them in our state? Why shouldn’t a city like Berkeley say it’s only buying zero-emission cars?
Do you know what damage vehicle emissions have done to the yosemite valley?
I fail to see, when the industry in our state has evolved computers from huge mainframes to the internet and phone in your pocket in 30 years, why the industry in your state hasn’t yet made anti-gravity mag lev battery operated ufos, with blinky lights and cool interiors.
Step it up into the 21st Century, Detroit. Then I’ll buy. (Am looking heavily at the Mercury Mariner Hybrid) and its ambient light package for next car, but wish it had even better mileage).
Also, while we do have huge agribusiness, we also have biodynamic wineries, slow food, and grow local movements, as well as a thriving permaculture advocacy network. You should look into them, too.
KT
KT
Like I said, the end product of the goal is laudable.
But they need to understand IN THIS INSTANCE that adding financial burdens to an industry that is trying to avoid bankruptcy without doing the difficult things to make sure that those burdens are passed on is economically unwise.
I’m pushing for a big national gas tax. Do that, and you’ll see the market change quickly–without at the same time making the financial plight of the industry worse.
It’s the stupid policy implementation, not the end goal of the policy, that I object to. And frankly, we’re partly responsible. But again, I’m talking about this instance.
Why computers.etc
Material Sciens vs Mechanical Engineering.
It’s in the physics. Mech eng is limited to strength of materials. A 100,000 rpm piston engine is not going to happen.
Material Science is limited by the size of atoms. 100 micron to sub micron integrated circuits? Done.
So Pelosi should get nothing from giving her money to Dan Quayle? I thought we didn’t like it when she just gave things to the current administration?
OT
Riki Ott and I are testing. Sorry. She’s in Haines Alaska, where the internet is spotty. See ya at the book salon sunday.
Sorry, this really IS a test. Cross your fingers for Sunday!
Riki
Hey, I am picking up your book in about 3 hours and reading it on Saturday. I can’t wait for that Book Salon!!
(I used to sea kayak up around Bligh Island. Isn’t the Toobz a strange and wondrous thing, eh?)
Hmmm, but arguably a principled stand from Democrats couldn’t bring it about. If Democrats had stood strong and ended up with them on one side and the White House and congressional Republicans on the other, then he could have crashed the economy without reversing the Treasury stance and more plausibly claimed that they were the ones blocking a rescue.
I’m not saying it was brilliant strategy or anything; it’s pretty obvious they just stumbled to this point, but given the bad-faith negotiating of congressional Republicans, I’m not convinced that a better strategy could have succeeded.
Getting to the next administration with the automakers still alive and as little set in stone that will tie the hands of the Obama team seems to be the only goal that makes a difference.
Has my worthless excuse for a Junior Senator, Big Bad John Cornyn, shown up in this debate? Last I heard he was waffling so bad we thought he might cause an earthquake.
Ummm… maybe he needs to check with Riki Ott up in Cordova, AK. I’m pretty sure they have earthquakes up there; maybe one they could send along to Coryn.
Good faith negotiations continue, one Senator had a new idea. If they can work that out, a bill will overwhelmingly pass.
All right, I didn’t really mean to say that none of the Republicans were negotiating in good faith. But a lot of the ones who are getting quoted the most in the media clearly aren’t.
Linky?
Boxturtle (If a senator gets a thought, he should be kind to it. It’s in a strange place and it’s probably lonely)
think you got Cali figured out, do ya ???
if this global warming thingy turns out to be true, bailin ain’t gonna work
we’re gonna need a BIG FUCKING RAFT
for the record, the irrigation system out here is self sustaining. It’s basically a gravity driven system that generates a lot of electric power. They can generate enough power to keep moving the water around. The problem comes from the oil dependent parts of the system, ie transportation, fertelizers, weed and pest control
but if the ocean rises 5 feet, most of the farmland in the central valley will be under water unless we damn the golden gate strait
just thought I’d let you know that we still worry about the original definition of a “Bailout” too …
in the winter of 1862, the central valley was a lake, 300 miles long and 50 miles wide, that tends to make farming a little more challenging …
Just so long as we get you begging, that’s all we want. We’ve got boats, fresh water, and some leftover combustion engines, so we can come get you if you ask nicely.
It gets to the point where you almost want to see the Chinese start flooding the US market with loss-leader Buicks in 2011, just to see Dick, Jim and Jeff shit their Dixie pants. But no. If that happens, we’re all fucked from top to bottom.
Came on to driveby — no time now, but it sure looks to me as if the Rep’s are cutting off their noses to spit their faces on this one.
Re Cheney: man, what goes around comes around.
Shelby was stung by the bank bailout, which does very little (I gather) to assist the smaller and locally run banks in the hinterland. He made a big fuss about this, and no one paid him much heed–which has made it only too tempting, or inevitable, to strike back.
Though I’m not a Shelby fan, I do not find him to be a person who cannot, or will not, deal. And herein lies Obama’s biggest challenge: he has to convince us all, however beautiful or ugly we happen to be, that we will not be–not a single one of us–carelessly sacrificed on the altar of power relations.
Paulson’s and Bush’s mad haste to save the “big” Wall Street banks, however understandable, shattered whatever faith was left in the process of sharing the pain–turning it, however unwittingly, into a process of inflicting pain. This has to stop, or, if it can’t be stopped, then it has to be seen for what it is: a lack of the minimal magnanimity needed for survival (lucidity being the last thing we can afford to forego as the disaster unfolds).
Good point.
But it’s still irrational for Shelby to take his spleen out on the manufacturing sector; and speaking of ‘bad faith’… oh, indeed, I see that Cheney was mentioned in this thread…
OT – Shameless self-promotion of my latest Oxdown diary: Shorter Blagojevich: “I appoint me as Senator!”
Bailout – shmailout! They’re gonna want our fookin’ water!
And if they were on fire, we wouldn’t piss on ‘em! *g*
The Mitchster figures that with his latest Senate re-election already in the bag, he’s got another 6 years for those “dumb as stumps” constituents of his to forget he’s thrown them all under the bus.
Everyone just sit tight.
Give it a bit and the door will soon open, and out will march the Strict Daddies wearing their best “this is going to hurt me more than you” faces to declare that a deal has been reached and approved by them.
If you listen closely in the background, you’ll be able to hear the whipped automakers crying like babies in the back room.
And, if you listen really closely, you’ll hear the tinkle of cocktail glasses in the kitchen, where the Cerberus guys are.
I am glad to see the critique of CA ag and water policy. Already in this the second state drought year there is a court action from some of the formerly non ag westside interestes in CA central valley to force their way to the front of the queue for receiving water.
There are gigantic electric pumps which extract SF-Sacramento Bay delta fresh water and pump it to ag southward, then over Grapevine into LA.
One of the problems with CA ag is grower association contracts, which force farmers to discard or thin and throw away blemished and off-size fruit.
Another problem with CA ag is the cultivation of crops which do not do well in CA except by extraordinary petrochemical industry props. CA ag has a strong tie to the energy sector, in fact numerous large holdings are owned by conglomerates in the energy sector. I spent ten years commuting through a narrow fertile valley in a sliver of winegrape country; an oilco bought one large vineyard and was prominently deploying pesticide spray rigs many more days than most local growers. There is a labor cost savings to using what are termed legally ‘economic poisons’ (pesticides).
EPA under Bush has raised the minimum reportable amount of toxic discharges into bodies of water, so, in typical Bush fashion, the people do not know now the total toxic burden because it has become legally unreported.
There is all manner of bureaucracy hiding what is going on in CA ag. I favor a little pressure from the rhubarb growers everywhere. CA needs to abandon its high priced, botique crop selection, but politicians are unlikely to lead the way. Like several commenters observe, there are strong organic and natural farm methods oriented people and organizations now in CA. I think the netroots have helped this a lot, too. Keep criticizing, MI; CA is too vain, even though it has some good people. The impacts of global warming will be more evident after BObama has unleashed the compromised career scientists to write what we need to hear, so we can plan and make some Change happen.
The ARB’s decison today whould have interesting results. The LA Times commentary was heavily weighted to ‘Ohnoz!1!’, by people who, I would bet, don’t remember what LA was like in the 60s.
Digg it
Dugg. Thanks for the link.
Thanks ew.
One of the Republican ploys is to try to use pushbutton issues to set union against environment, essentially recruiting some of the people who suffer most from toxic pollution as foils in the economic scuffle. Today I am reading kudos for a nuke expert likely to receive the nomination to DOE in the incoming administration, someone who has worked with DOE at a Republican campus, and at a more liberal university in the same region, to reverse global warming. I am interested in learning who the people are the next administration names to USDA and some other spots, e.g. DOI. The combustion engine needs to cede space incrementally; but the move toward nuclear is potentially as disastrous, with apologies to some of its proponents. Also in the news is an evident successful delaying tactic by NRDC to prevent Bush from lameducking coal generation of electricity plants perpetual pollution waivers when modern scrubbing technology is available to improve the dirty side of coal; though there are other aspects of coal skipped in the cited link, which are perhaps equally as perilous.
If at first you do not succeed; fail, fail, fail again.
Off Topic.
As I mentioned to a friend via email, between Shelby and Blago, Corker and McConnell, then Bush the Reluctant and DeMint, I need a drink. Perhaps a few are in order.
Me and the missus are headed to go see Tom Morello The Nightwatchman (former guitarist of Rage Against the Machine) at a local venue tonight.
Rage and rage, as it were.
There was an AP article yesterday that featured Morello, you may have seen it. He and other musicians (including the guy that wrote the Barney song) are protesting their music being used to torture detainess at Guantanamo.
Here’s the link:
Barney and Sesame Street used to torture people makes me sick
this is truly depressing.
Our Reps bailing out fat cats on Wall Street and allowing the auto industry sink. Kicking auto workers in the guts face and ass.
could not think of two worse people that you could send out to close a deal. Bolton/cheney…I guess they could have sent Libby or Rove
PJE @51, or San Gabriel valley in the 50’s, which was the era when people coined the term ’smog’ gazing southwest toward metropolitan LA, though it never appeared in Seuss books for subsequent generations. The governor has seen to it that the script is polished but he populates agencies with an admix of good people and obstructionists, I am glad BO has skipped any elevation of him, CAgov, based on some of the sham policies he CAgov has hyped. True, LAT is getting more like it was in 70s. Netroots is going to add to that outlet’s obsolescence.
And we will have Higgs boson, or other particle, powered vehicles, maybe.
I think Detroit is strong enough to weather this, but Republicans are having fun in the usual ways at the cost of workers.