On What Terms Will this Administration Spy on Americans?
I think these Senators are really getting tired trying to teach their Republican colleagues about the rule of law and the importance of all three branches of government.
Thanks to Selise for the YouTube. One highlight:
I know the Bush Administration fears and despises Judicial Oversight. Probably with very good reason.
And check out Whitehouse quoting Scalia starting at 7:55.
There was a sense of a sharp necessity to separate the legislative from the judicial power at the founding of our government. This sense of sharp necessity triumphed among the framers of the new Federal Constitution. And it did so–again quoting the decision–prompted by the crescendo of legislative interference with private judgments of the Court.
Nice touch, Whitehouse.
Just a quick summary of where things stand. The amendments that Harry Reid believes won’t be close will be voted on tomorrow. It will almost certainly go into Wednesday. If Mitch McConnell has his way, though, he’ll push the FISA vote out until Thursday or Friday to hand it to the House with no time to fix it.
One more point. If I’m not mistaken, Harry Reid was really worried about giving Hillary and Obama the opportunity to get back to vote on the Stimulus Package. But apparently they seem a lot less interested in getting back to vote for our privacy and civil liberties.
But apparently they seem a lot less interested in getting back to vote for our privacy and civil liberties.
That sure seems to be the plan. Embarrassing isn’t it?
Hi EW!
Just got caugh up in the last thread. Sorry I missed Ms. Boxer and her teachable moments for whackos on the otherside, the darkside, the Darthside. Sounds like it was fun.
She kicked butt! It was awesome. One of her BEST! She is so very kewl when she is fired up! Pointing out that the reason Bu$h’s budget is so inhuman, and inhumane, is DUH! THE WAR!?!
She and her words were just a THING TO BEHOLD!
Hi RevDeb,
How is the preaching going these days? Maybe some in DC need a dose of the Sermon on th Mount.
I got to preach to my congressman, Joe Sestak. He came to church last month, sat in the back and took notes! We met after for a few minutes and has sent me 2 personal notes thusfar. His handwriting is awful. Anything I can do to keep him aware of what we are hoping for from him and the dems I am doing.
So what was he like in person?
Actually he seemed really down to earth and sincere. Almost humble even. Not like any of the others I’ve met. Except Ned who lost to a rethug in jack*ss drag.
When you see him again please thank him for staying involved.
EW: Is it a sure thing yet that they will vote on some of the FISA amendments tomorrow? I know Durbin proposed it, but I was under the impression that they were working on an agreement to be announced later tonight.
RevDeb,
I think Minneapolis Convention will need a dose of Family Values.
Those jokers are beyond our help. They wouldn’t know a real family value if it hit them over the head.
Bet the College Republicans and the Young American for Freedom types enjoy themselves.
Ain’t gonna be many converts for them there ’cause the Repugs will all be shtuppin’ themselves over here in Saint Paul.
And in case anyone’s interested, there is no love lost between us on the correct side of the river and those nobodies over there! *g*
Sanders just read Reid’s statement that FISA debate and votes are likely tomorrow, after 2 pm.
Thanks for the notice.
Yep, Hapless Harry is working hard to make sure that Hill and Obama don’t have to go on the record and vote on protecting the Constitution.
Pathetic.
Yes, but it does look like the really important FISA votes will be Wednesday or later.
Sanders just read Reid’s statement that FISA debate and votes are likely tomorrow, after 2 pm.
Contingent, I think, on obtaining agreement to set aside consideration of the motion to proceed to HR 5140.
The timeline on passing FISA is uncertain, for want of a cloture motion on its final passage, and on uncertainty about insisting on adhering to the timelines the rules assign to cloture. The rules can be broken (I’ve seen the 3 days provided in the rules compressed to 40 minutes – motion filed, voted on, passed, no post-cloture debate), but if anybody wants to delay FISA, there are also opportunities on final passage.
I was expecting the cloture motion on final passage to be filed today, so that it would ripen coincidently with completing debate and votes on the amendments.
Thanks for filling in more details. Can that cloture motion still be filed even though the Senate has recessed for the day?
I expect on the same ones it has been for the last 7 years. The PAA is about granting immunity to the telecoms. The rest is window dressing. The Bush Administation, as we all should know by now, will do whatever it wants to do regardless of the law.
Can that cloture motion still be filed even though the Senate has recessed for the day?
No. All the action happens when the Senate is in session.
If something is permitted while the Senate is “out,” there is always an announcement to that effect (notwithstanding recess or adjournment, the clerk will accept amendments / statements / etc.), and the filings permitted aren’t in the nature of action.
I was looking at the record for an example of something, and found this recent event. The only point I aim to make with it is that one has to parse Senate-speak with a combination of “exactitude” and “grain of salt.” Things, especially timing, can change quickly.
The following was on the morning of December 17, 2007.
So, what’s your impression? Cloture passes, then the Senate adopts the motion? Proceeds to the bill “then?”
Well, it COULD. But it DIDN’T. Senator Dodd objected, and insisted on the 30 hours of post-cloture debate.
Can he do the same thing again? If the Republicans are plotting to fix the votes so we can’t win any of them, then maybe the next best option is to stop the votes from happening at all.
No bill is better than a bad bill!
Bob in HI
Can he do the same thing again? If the Republicans are plotting to fix the votes so we can’t win any of them, then maybe the next best option is to stop the votes from happening at all.
Dodd (or Feingold) can object to voting on final passage of FISA, and assuming cloture is filed to get around that, and passed, they can insist on the time periods, including 30 hours of post-cloture debate.
But that doesn’t stop the votes outright. It only delays that vote.
At this moment, working on FISA is delayed on account of a GOP objection.
Maybe I’m just hoping against hope, but is it possible that McConnell is stalling because he may not have enough votes for certain amendments and he needs the time to whip some Senators back into line?
I used to think Patrick Leahy should be Attorney General in the next Administration (mostly out of age, time he has served, etc..). But EFF that nonsense…Whitehouse all the way! This man is amazing.
Can he do the same thing again?
When I set out this morning, to estimate events and progress on FISA this week, I composed this:
I didn’t anticipate debate on the motion to proceed to HR 5140 being an interruption to FISA. But at most, it’s a 30 hour interruption, and the clock is running now, even while the Senate is out.
I’d cast this as GOP objecting to both FISA and economic stimulus.
Not enough Members of Congress seem to know and take seriously public opinion concerning government surveillance; they seem to take refuge in the fact that we aren’t hearing many anecdotal reports of individuals or businesses having been directly, adversely affected by the government’s watching and snooping; they must be thinking that we won’t have any long-term worries about activities that don’t personally affect us in a tangible way.
The high regard for the Constitution by many in the public is being underestimated in Congress. Seeing the Constitution disregarded or functionally transmogrified in several ways is depressing, as is the feeling of futility that comes from the realization that control of the current federal government is more and more slipping away from the citizens it was put in place to serve. The realization that we as citizens do not have access to the information government collects on us individually—or even the parameters of that information, along with the identities of government agencies and contractors that collect, analyze, store, or distribute it—leads to despair, exasperation, or malaise.
EFF’s Kurt Opsahl recently summarized a Melman Group poll’s finding that a strong majority of voters oppose telecom immunity. (The Mellman Group’s findings report, as sent to the ACLU and linked to by Opsahl, is in PDF format.) Surveys of public knowledge of and opinion toward specific surveillance and personal information gathering practices would be welcome, and might even serve to influence some in Congress. There will be elections.
Which leads to another likely reason they are trying to rush this through…to allow the PAA/FISA passage to become “old news” before the primary season ends, and give the anti-incumbent sentiment that is sure to follow time to cool off before November.
By “they” in my first paragraph above I meant “those who don’t.” A minority in Congress do take citizen opinions seriously enough.
It sure would be nice to think those studies could somehow be used to educate all the nice Senators about the likely later consequences of their votes over the next couple days.
Members of Congress can’t claim that they didn’t have time to study the issues this time (and they all should have learned by now that they’re expected to read the legislation being voted on), so those who have been slacking had better cram.
Well, that presumes they care much about doing the right thing, which on the whole I can’t say the evidence supports. I’m suggesting it would likely be more effective to instead play to their self-interest w/r/t remaining in their positions of power. Showing them evidence that their preferred FISA/PAA votes would imperil their next election cycle might work wonders. And wonders is exactly what we need here.