Senator Dodd Tries to Save the Constitution
Senator Dodd is on the Senate floor, explaining why, later today, he will filibuster immunity for the telecoms. Via email, here he is knocking down the claim that AT&T will go out of business if the suits go forward.
"State secrets," "patriotic duty"—those, as weak as they are, are the arguments the president’s allies use when they’re feeling high-minded! When their thoughts turn baser, they make their arguments in dollar signs.
Here’s how Mike McConnell put it:
"If you play out the suits at the value they’re claimed, it would bankrupt these companies. So…we have to provide liability protection to these private sector entities."
Mike McConnell is quickly becoming an accidental truth-teller! Notice how the president’s own Director of National Intelligence concedes that if the cases went to trial, the telecoms would lose. I don’t know if that’s true, Mr. President—but we can thank Adm. McConnell for telling us how he really feels.
Of course, it’s an exaggeration to claim that that these companies would surely go bankrupt, even if they did lose.
We are talking about some of the wealthiest, most successful companies in America. Let me quote an article from Dow Jones MarketWatch. The date is October 23, 2007. The headline reads: "AT&T’s third-quarter profit rises 41.5%."
Quote: "AT&T Inc. on Tuesday said third-quarter earnings rose 41.5%, boosted by the acquisition of BellSouth and the addition of 2 million net wireless customers….Net income totaled $3.06 billion…compared with $2.17 billion…a year ago." Note that AT&T has posted these record profits at a time of very public litigation.
A company with more than $3 billion in profits one quarter—only the most exorbitant and unlikely judgment could completely wipe it out. To assume that the telecoms would lose, and that their judges would then hand down such backbreaking penalties, is already to take several leaps.
The point, after all, has never been to financially cripple our telecommunications industry. The point is to bring checks and balances back to domestic spying. Setting that precedent would hardly require a crippling judgment.
It’s much more troubling, though, that the Director of National Intelligence even feels the need to pronounce on "liability protection for private sector entities." Since when were our spies in the business of economics? Since when did they put protecting AT&T or Verizon ahead of protecting the American people? Since when did the amount a defendant stands to lose have any bearing on whether a suit should go forward? I learned in law school that guilty was guilty—no matter how rich or how poor.
Lean on this logic, and you’ll sink to its venal core: Certain corporations are too rich to be sued. Forget what they owe; forget what’s just; forget judges setting the penalty.
If there’s even a chance of the judgment being high, throw the suit out—it endangers the Republic!
This administration has equated corporations’ bottom lines with our nation’s security. Follow that reasoning honestly to its end, and you come to the conclusion: The larger the corporation, the more lawless it can be. If we accept Mr. McConnell’s premises, we could conceive of a corporation so wealthy, so integral to our economy, that its riches place it outside the law altogether. And if the administration’s thinking even admits that possibility, we know instinctively how flawed it is.
EW do either bills give “retroactive immunity” to any wiretapping or data mining that took place before 9/11?
“Haggis” Specter up now. Sure sounds like he supports Dodd, doesn’t it?
But it’s the “Haggis” after all. Spineless.
Three-to-one he votes for cloture. He only votes the right way when it doesn’t matter, and this vote clearly matters.
No. Only the SSCI has immunity, and it says only wiretapping after 9/11 is included.
Unfortunately, Rayne, he’s mostly pitching it as pique that Dick worked around him.
Yeah, so all this would be okay, all the signing statements and lack of consultation with the Intel Committees, if only they had a nice chat first with the Haggis.
[sigh]
Dodd’s words seem so obviously logical that the rest of Congress is either illogical or Dodd did not receive the memo that Congress no longer wants a representative democracy.
BTW, I’m at home at the moment. Noticed my CSPAN-2 is a blank screen (I use Comcast). CSPAN-1 is working fine, so is Comedy Central.
Leen and EW – EW is right in her response at 3; however, at this point, there is no need for civil immunity prior to 9/11 because pretty much any claim would be time barred (unless a plaintiff could forge an argument the statute was tolled by them not knowing of pre-9/11 snooping until recently, but none have come forth so pre-9/11 claims look to be no issue). They then use passage of the Senate Intel bill to cover them in the meantime and then new protections going forward. The only real goal out of this is to shut down the cases that are pending and make it difficult for a plaintiff to gain traction for the next 1-2 years. The only real goal is to shut down the litigation, not necessarily to provide immunity, that is a sideshow benefit. If you look at the effort in those terms, the convoluted junk makes more sense.
Weird…if nothing else, it’s a good day to home school the young ones this snow day about democracy’s supposed workings.
The kids actually listened to Feingold’s remarks, asked good questions, and are now cheering each time a Senator votes NO on cloture.
[BTW, need to tell the techie ghosts in the machine that database errors are happening, had several already this morning.]
Embarrassing. Levin and Stabenow BOTH vote for cloture.
Nasty grams, incoming.
Whitehouse “telecom companies in an impossible predicament” “they can not say one word in their defense”
Is this true?
bmaz — don’t know if you just caught Whitehouse’s speech, but it appears you need to send him an email explaining immunity for the telcos. He still thinks it is the “only decent thing to do”. Uh huh.
All the telcos had to do was ask for a court order. Would have provided all the cover they needed. Could have told the White House, “Sure, no problem, just get a court order” — how difficult would that have been?
I don’t know why Whitehouse is slipping on this point, makes absolutely no sense.
Telcos and their suppliers are the 21st century version of the
robber baronrailroads. They “carry” almost everything and as much as I can figure, everyone else in silicon valley, Google, MS, Oracle, …. is scared of them.OMG Warmonger Feinstein up. The turncoat who voted for Mukasey.
Investigate Feinstein for conflict of interest and war profits. She makes me feel ill.
Is site traffic VERY heavy on The FDL Group today? Things don’t go beyond the home pages at all easily.
Whitehouse “telecoms put in an impossible predicament” “they can not say one word in their own defense”
Is this true?
Well, it is true to some extent that the telecoms can’t speak in their own defense. I believe they are barred from producing the subpeonas or whatever other documentation the Bush so-called Administration gave them to do their domestic spying.
If there is no “retroactive immunity” for telecom companies before 9/11. If these methods were used in the collection of the interception of conversations with anyone involved with the Rosen/Weissman/Espionage investigation and trial could that evidence be dropped due to the lack of “retroactive immunity”
It seems to boil down to the bottom line that only Dodd, Kennedy, and Feingold have a clear understanding that the Constitution is at stake, and the integrity to fight for it.
You’re watching the meltdown of the rest of the Democrats into Bush lackeys play out on your TV.
It seems to boil down to the bottom line that only Dodd, Kennedy, and Feingold have a clear understanding that the Constitution is at stake, and the integrity to fight for it. Widen and Whitehouse have been very ambivalent.
You’re watching the meltdown of the rest of the Democrats into Bush lackeys play out on your TV.
It seems to boil down to the bottom line that only Dodd, Kennedy, and Feingold have a clear understanding that the Constitution is at stake, and the integrity to fight for it. Widen and Whitehouse have been very ambivalent.
You’re watching the meltdown of the rest of the Democrats into Bush lackeys play out on your TV.
I thought Wyden was clear in his opposition to telco immunity and emphatic in his insistence that the Full Senate be given access to all relevant documents. I didn’t get a sense of wishy washy-ness from him at all in his speech. That said, I don’t know what he has said in the past, but at this point, he seems on board with Dodd.
Boxer was quite good too, but no one could hold a candle to Teddy today — he was great!
The right wing Fear Mongering has a history! Truman’s Secretary of State, Dean Achison in his memoir “Present at the Creation” notes that after World War I came the Palmer Raids, after World War II came Patrick J. Hurley, to originate McCarthism on November 27, 1945 charging that his (China) embassy staff and the State Department betrayed him. In the same book. Mr. Hurley’s Demagogy during WWII in present day Iran were cleverly characterized as “Messianic Globaloney” just like Bush and Cheney!