If Ever You Needed Proof that Pseudonymity Anonymity Hysteria Is Bunk

/in /by

DBJ at DKos, relating Karl Rove’s speech about "Citizen 2.0" in DC yesterday, makes a good point. When a man who has used the cover of being an anonymous source to leak a CIA operative’s identity–not to mention untold other smears–complains that commenters online can be anonymous pseudonymous, it pretty much discredits that complaint once and for all.

Then it got surreal. 

Karl Rove is angry that the internet is a place where people canpost anonymously.  He feels it hurts our democracy to have people saythings but not put their names to them.  The anonymity gives people away to say things but not take responsibility for them.

Yes.  Mr. Out-the-CIA-Agent-To-Douchebag-Of-Liberty-Novakula is upset because the internet allows for anonymity. 

After all, most people who comment anonymously pseudonymously online do so in an effort to protect their job and their family from people like Karl Rove. Karl Rove, on the other hand, uses anonymity to cowardly
hide his central involvement in nasty smears.

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  2. semiot says:

    Karl needn’t worry. The NSA knows who we are. Actually, Karl knows that the NSA knows who we are, so as usual he’s just blowing smoke. Air quality has improved a bit since Karl left the White House – but the sulphur smell lingers, like the memory of a bad egg.

  3. freepatriot says:

    so splain to me again how Valerie Plame was â€Fair Gameâ€

    and WHY EXACTLY was novakula reluctant to reveal his sources ???

    and didn’t kkkarl rove got to court to protect his annonimity in that case ???

    some days you just gotta say it flat out

    kkkarl rove is a lying traitor and a hypocrite

  4. phred says:

    The Rethug mantra is â€do as I say, not as I doâ€. Really now, who is surprised by any of this? If there is one thing the Rethugs do well, it is accusing their opponents of conduct that the Rethugs actually engage in, and then pretending it is all despicable and unacceptable. It would be funny, if they weren’t so successful at it.

  5. Katie Jensen says:

    It’s called projection and it’s the main symptom of denial.

    He’s in a world of his own…and can’t be reached by the sane and rational.

  7. Anonymous says:

    I loved this line (reported in links from DBJ’s diary) from Rove, about blogs as â€an inexpensive and easily accessible soapbox.†Well, like, yeah, eh? To any serious democrat, those would be terms of approbation, not insults.

    I sometimes imagine being able to show Diderot what we can do on the net — he would be turning somersaults and doing handsprings, just over the moon at how things worked out with the democracy/universal education caper … And then of course I’d have to fill him in on the downside …

    That line of Rove’s tells us just how seriously C21 North Americans have failed what should have been ours, the inheritance of the Enlightenment. Sleazy brutes are running the show.

  8. flounder says:

    I suppose anonymously spreading rumors that Ann Richards is a lesbian or the John McCain is hiding a little black baby that wasn’t born by his his drug-addled, pill-popping wife are perfectly acceptable means of communication.

  9. JGabriel says:

    Rove also reportedly complained about the *language* used by people in the blogosphere.

    Such a complaint is rightly discredited when it comes from someone who supports candidates that routinely call him ’turdblossom’, describe a reporter as a ’major league asshole’, and tell Senators to ’Go fuck yourself’.

    .

  10. Anonymous says:

    I’d feel a bit more inclined to listen to his rant if indeed the 5 million missing emails and Rove’s GOP account were coughed up.

  11. earlofhuntingdon says:

    Karl being Karl, I assume the opposite of what he says is true. And that one cross benefit of his admininstration’s â€sharing†with ISP’s and telcos is that none of us (of interest to his government) are pseudonymous with the powers that be. Only other bloggers don’t know who we are. They do know whether our arguments make sense and why, which is a lot more than can be said of Karl.

  12. mighty mouse says:

    JGabriel: To say nothing of (this is a paraphrase) â€we’ll f— them like they’ve never been f—ked before.†Or to that effect. Well, at least his rhetoric reflects his machinations….

  13. oldtree says:

    it is all about control of information isn’t it karl? criminals want such restrictions. fascists approve of such limits. communists as well. It is only democracy that doesn’t thrive without whistle blowers, a free press, a letter to the editor, a protest, a march, a revolution.
    karl likes no info but his own, no protests, no union, no whistle blowers, a well controlled press where novak is king. But no marches, no democracy, and no changes. These are the goals of someone described under RICO laws.
    I guess it is all about our choices?

  14. earlofhuntingdon says:

    Somewhat off post, I agree with the no longer paranoid observation that Pakistan is a dry run for Cheney, who is behind the unaccounted for billions in financing and sotto voce â€criticism†of Musharraf and his coup (even PBS calls it a â€transitionâ€).

    Events are too close to a Cheney whet dream: arresting the principal opposition leader, arresting the Supreme Court and top lawyers; shutting down the opposition media; not having to account for billions in cash from his (foreign) supporters; and claiming it is all done to fight â€the terroristsâ€.

    I can’t wait to read about his plots for Pakistan: Freedom’s March, Season 2.

  15. Anonymous says:

    â€After all, most people who comment anonymously pseudonymously online do so in an effort to protect their job and their family from people like Karl Roveâ€

    A-goddamn-men to that. Some pseudonymous posters are literally protecting their life, limb and liberty with pseudonymous or anonymous posts. 7 years ago, that statement would have been melodramatic, now it might well be an understatement.

  16. Neil says:

    I suppose anonymously spreading rumors that Ann Richards is a lesbian or the John McCain is hiding a little black baby that wasn’t born by his his drug-addled, pill-popping wife are perfectly acceptable means of communication.
    Posted by: flounder | November 09, 2007 at 10:16

    In all fairness, both of those had Karl Rove’s signature all over them.

  17. Sparkles the Iguana says:

    Somewhat OT but not entirely…..

    Patrick Fitzgerald will be speaking about the proposed federal shield law at the Annual Convention of the National Communication Association. (The theme of the convention is Faith-Intellect-Ethics, hmm.)

    Friday, November 16
    â€Justice Talking†Comes to NCA: Taping of Live Debate for Broadcast on
    NPR, Guests include Patrick Fitzgerald, the US Attorney who prosecuted the
    â€Scooter†Libby case, will be speaking about the proposed federal reporter
    shield law. Robert Bauer and Trevor Potter will be debating political
    speech and campaign finance.
    9:30 a.m. Chicago Hilton, Lake Michigan

    WEB SITE: http://www.natcom.org/convention

  18. P J Evans says:

    sometimes imagine being able to show Diderot what we can do on the net — he would be turning somersaults and doing handsprings, just over the moon at how things worked out with the democracy/universal education caper … And then of course I’d have to fill him in on the downside …

    Try Franklin in that role. He’d have a blog up in no time at all, and be one of the leading sites about three weeks later.

    Over at Making Light, in the thread Blow, Blow, Thou Wanker Winds, there’s a troll who proposes formal arbitration of blog arguments and posts, without ever acknowledging that a blog is a personal site and the blogger has complete control of the comments. (He’s flounced out three times in the last day and a half, and come back each time. I’m waiting for his disemvowelment.)

  19. Muzzy says:

    Karl attempts to claim that valid and credible thoughts become so only when linked to a name instead of being derived from the substance of what is said.

    But I guess the anonymity of my observation makes it false.

    For a good laugh, in your mind try removing Karl’s identity from some of his own quotes and attribute them to an anonymous wingnut internet poster:

    â€Huge amounts of charisma, swagger, cowboy boots, flight jacket, wonderful smile, just charisma — you know, wow!â€

    .

  20. Sonoma Rus says:

    I wonder if the British did some whining about those damnedable yanks when they â€anonymously†dressed up as Indians and kicked tea off the boats. Cowards!

  21. Neil says:

    You think Pat Fitz and USAs in general might appreciate the effects of an enhanced whistleblower law as opposed to a Federal shield law?

  23. earlofhuntingdon says:

    Karl is best known for anonymous brutal attacks that go far beyond pushing the boundary of honesty or decency. His next most famous method is to accuse others of doing precisely what he does in order to deflate legitimate criticism of his methods as â€just politics, everybody does it, no harm doneâ€. If he didn’t expect to maim an opponent beyond recognition, he wouldn’t do it.

    As with the GOP attacks on eg, plaintiffs’ lawyers, this is all about denying his opponents the weapons he uses most often. Lawyers are only bad when they work for the little guy, or when they don’t cut his taxes or lobby for his clients hard enough.

    Karl wants the Indians on the reservation; doesn’t want them loose on the range with Winchesters. Which reminds me of the great American Indian poster art that became popular not long after 9/11. The punch line under a Geronimo-like grouping read: â€Fighting Terrorists Since 1492â€.

  24. Mary says:

    EOH – speakcing of poster art (and I never saw the fighting terrorists one – I need to find one of those)

    http://www.boingboing.net/2007…..h-a-d.html

    There’s a push on to give out free posters of â€conservative†pundits and it starts with the phrasing

    â€Now you can hang the leaders of the Conservative movement …â€

    Boing Boing — They had me at the first seven words.

  25. Anonymous says:

    NEIL!!!! – Was just watching â€College Football Live†on ESPN, and they had a whole segment on the long and storied rivalry between Amherst and Williams. Talked about how one (Williams I think) was averaging 30 points a game but the other (Amherst I think) was allowing only 12. Pretty cool your big game hit the big time on ESPN. Sad to report, however, the ESPN â€expertâ€, Robert Smith (ex Vikings RB), predicted a Williams victory.

  26. freepatriot says:

    Williams ???

    Amherst ???

    wtf ???

    they still play college football ???

    next you’re gonna tell me that a Division 1AA school can beat Michigan in The Big House

    Like I would believe that

    /snark

    just judging by what’s going on in college football this year, I’m beginning to think that we fucked up the ozone more than we thought, or something …

  27. Jodi says:

    Michael Bassick, Personal Democracy Forum, techPresident

    â€Rove’s insights included:â€

    â€Blogs give angry people an undeserved voice: â€People on the fringe are no longer voiceless,†noted Rove. Blogs have the unintended effect of giving â€angry kooks†an â€inexpensive soapbox†and a sense of â€pseudo-anonymity†that â€brings forth the worst angels of our nature.†He trashed DailyKos and the liberal blogosphere for using more â€dirty words†than conservative blogs like Townhall and RedState. â€The Netroots, he said, â€argue from anger rather than reason.†Many, he believes, blog for â€personal release†and not â€political persuasion.†He argued that the Netroots have been largely ineffective and said MoveOn.org’s inability to end the war proves his point.â€

    I wholeheartly agree. You can look in the thread above and see what Karl Rove has described. Point made!!

  28. Anonymous says:

    Jodidiot – The only point you have ever made is the one on your fucking head. An extra tall witches hat ought to cover it up.

    Freepatriot – Get this. I have now just heard that the whole â€ESPN Gameday†setup and crew of Fowler, Corso and Herbstreit are going to be on scene in Williamstown Mass. for the whole day doing their broadcast from the site of the big Amherst-Williams game!

  29. emptywheel says:

    Re: College Gameday

    There had better be some Amherst women ruggers running around in the background holding muddy Williams jerseys…

  32. Anonymous says:

    EW – Does that imply there will be topless Williams ruggers running around? I am not sure about this whole scene at all anymore…

    Phred – Yeah, I dunno. I will say this, the same ESPN Gameday crew was in Eugene Oregon last Saturday for the Ducks and Sun Devils. Didn’t work out very well for my Devils (although I admit that the Ducks are a hell of a team and Autzen Stadium has always been hard to get a road win in even when Oregon stunk). Kind of cool that they will take their gig to a lower division game though; I kind of like that. I wonder if the game is to be televised, can’t find any evidence that it is. Oh well, will have to settle for ASU v. UCLA.

    PJ – The troll left herself open, I had to take the free kick!

  33. readerOfTeaLeaves says:

    PJ Evans, you’re too funny. She was still wearing her witch hat, too.

    OT, kinda, but… one of my uncles, named Robert, taught at Williams. So people in the family always referred to it as ’Robert’s college’.
    I have two other uncles named William. One never went near a college, ever!
    The other went to a college that was NOT Williams, but the family always referred to it as ’William’s college’.
    And then, there was ’Tim’s college.’ Which was actually Reed, in Portland.
    Families can confuse that way.

    Easy to inadvertantly end up cheering for the wrong team 8-0

  35. emptywheel says:

    bmaz

    With one exception the women (and the men too, I guess) have another shirt to put on. Sad to say, the only time we won jerseys was the year I was out with a bum knee and only captained the game.

    Neil

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Darp turn down ESPN’s offer to televise the game in 1987 (or whatever year it was)?

  38. phred says:

    bmaz — funny you mention the shirtless rugby players… Back when I played for Pioneer Valley (cross town from EW’s Amherst team) the team captains had to ask the players to stop changing their shirts on the sidelines, ’cause it was freaking out the fans (not that there were that many, but still…). Everyone wore sports bras that were downright dowdy compared to your garden variety bikini top, so it wasn’t that scandalous in the grand scheme of things. We all thought it was kind of funny.

    rfw, closely followed by Support Your Local Hooker, Play Rugby

    oh and bmaz, sorry ’bout the Sun Devils getting waddled over… better luck with the Bruins I hope!

  39. emptywheel says:

    I just remember one Williams player. We were playing about this same weekend, only it had snowed about 9 inches just days before the game, so they had to plow the field for the game. ANd it was COLD–maybe in the single to teen digits? Everyone sane had some layers on: tights and underlayers. But not this woman. She played in just her jersey, no sports bra, and the jersey had a huge gaping hole on the side. So her boobs were sticking out all the time.

    I was just glad I wasn’t lined up across from her as a prop.

  40. phred says:

    OMG, that is hilarious! Who in their right mind would play without a sports bra?!?

    As for playing in the snow, I remember they used to have a winter rugby tournament played in the snow up in northern Wisconsin. It was sevens I think. Anyway, it was a big point of pride to play in your shorts and jersey. I don’t think there were any women’s teams that played in that particular tournament back then anyway. I think the guys thought it was miserable, but they loved the bragging rights they would get just from showing up

  41. earlofhuntingdon says:

    Rugger, the sport of cannibals, mastadons and gazelles. It’s a U game in the UK, unlike plebeian football; helps deal with all those paddlings at public school, I suppose. No snow though. I preferred wing, which is why I still have my ears and teeth.

  42. MarkH says:

    Privacy is very important and online anonymity is just one form of it. Is it any surprise that these cretins who use NSA+ATT to spy on us would think privacy is bad.

    Somehow traditional family values doesn’t equate to privacy for these Bushies. One wonders if they even close the bathroom door when they bathe.

    Privacy is a human desire — if they don’t want it then what does that make them?

  44. phred says:

    MarkH — they do want privcay, but only for themselves (hence the explosion in the quantity of classified material, state secrets and such). It’s only OUR privacy they don’t like.

  45. Neil says:

    The Amherst Lord Jeffs bow to Williams Purple Cows:
    ESPN makes silk curse out of cow’s ear

    Saturday was cold sunny day in the Berkshires. There was a dusting of snow on the ground along Route 2 on the drive up from Amherst.

    We parked – mom, sister and I – near Weston Field where the football team plays and walked across campus to the lower fields to see if the ruggers were playing. The men were. The women had played Sep. 29. Dunno who won either game. But last spring on May 29, Amherst Women’s Rugby team beat Williams and proudly wore Williams rugby jerseys for the team photo.

    We stayed a little while to watch the ruggers warm-up before heading back across campus to the college art museum (and what a great art collection it is) and then down the hill to Weston Field to join the crowd watching ESPN College GameDay – video here. I think you can see my mom waving a sign behind Lee Corso.

    bmaz,

    ESPN College GameDay didn’t work out too well for the Jeff’s or the Ducks but the Ducks lived to play another game and crushed Washington Saturday night.

    Oh! I kept my eyes open for shirtless women ruggers, Jeffs or Ephs, but no luck.

    EW,

    You’re right. The Darp declined ESPN’s offer to broadcast the game in 1985 stating, â€We are in the education business, not the entertainment business.†He would never have wanted Amherst or Williams to appear second rate. Let me explain. Division III football is competitive quality football but it does not have 80,000 fans and two marching bands. Less than 1500 fans attend most league games. While the Amherst Williams game is homecoming and the stands fill with 10,000 fans, it’s still not the same spectacle as Michigan playing Ohio State or Alabama at Auburn… you get the picture. The Darp wanted people to know what Amherst and Williams are about. He believed that featuring the two school’s football teams on television put the emphasis in the wrong place.

    https://cms.amherst.edu/aboutamherst/mission/node/7854" rel="nofollow">The Mission – Amherst College educates men and women of exceptional potential from all backgrounds so that they may seek, value, and advance knowledge, engage the world around them, and lead principled lives of consequence.

    Amherst beat Williams in 1985 and 1986. Since then, Williams has won 18, lost 3 and tied 1. Ugh.

    Coach Ostendarp retired in 1992 and died in December 2005. He served in WWII as a paratrooper in Europe. He played pro football with the New York Giants, Montreal Alouettes, and coached at Bucknell, Williams, Cornell and Amherst. In 1982, he was President of the American Football Coaches Association. Bo Schembechler succeeded him. In retirement, he was nominated for the College Football Hall of Fame. One of his former Amherst players, All-Pro Jean Fugget’72 of the Dallas Cowboys and Washington Redskins (who was at the game and whose son is a freshman at Amherst) once said about The Darp, â€I played for Tom Landry and I played for George Allen but I never played for a finer Coach than Coach Ostendarp.†How’s that for props? Amherst Football under Coach Ostendarp produced three other NFL players; Doug Swift ’70 Dolphins 17-0, Freddie Scott ’74 Colts Lions, and Sean Clancy ’78.

    At homecoming against Wesleyan this fall, Amherst dedicated a https://cms.amherst.edu/news/eventsmultimedia/2007/node/25920" rel="nofollow">plaque to honor The Darp at Pratt Field.

  48. Anonymous says:

    Neil – It really looked like a great time there. By the way, the Gameday deal worked fine for the Ducks, it was my Sun Devils, that were visiting Eugene and Autzen Stadium, that took it on the chin.

  49. Neil says:

    bmaz,

    of course it was the sun devils. dunno why I got that backwards.

    phred,

    Purple cow is their mascot. Col. Ephraim Williams was the founder.

    Not long after it was founded, according to the terms of the good Colonel’s will, as a free school in 1791, the trustees petitioned the Massachusetts legislature to allow tuition to be collected. â€By 1815, Williams had only two buildings and 58 students, and was in serious financial trouble. In 1821, the president of the college, Zephaniah Swift Moore, who had accepted his position believing that the college would move east, abandoned Williams. He took 15 students with him, and became the first president of Amherst College. [1]

  50. Neil says:

    OT –
    but seriously, is women’s rugby ever off-topic?

    â€In 2005, 2.95 million high school girls played some type of competitive sports, compared with 300,000 before Title IX. This year, the NCAA sponsored its first women’s rugby match.â€
    – Anita Hill, The legacy of Title IX, Boston Globe 11/12/07

    The NCAA has embraced the sport. Is it time colleges and universities that supported student rugby clubs offer rugby the same resources they give to other inter-collegiate sports? If so, it may come at a cost such as the loss of the laissez faire freedom to enjoy a post-match kegger with teamates and opponents.