Forget Prague, how about Atta on the SunCruz casino boat? Actually, that’d make a nice comparative study in the documentation of Atta sightings. On Feith and the OSP, though…Michael Rubin’s forced disclosure that some of his iraqi travels were funded by the Lincoln group revives my suspicion that academic and journalistic consultants linked to OSP only by ideology and chains of sideline subcontracting will be seen to have had an important role in the field production of fake intell.
Anonymous says:
Oh peanut, I have no doubt about that. Think about Rubin’s good buddy Ledeen, after all.
I’m actually surprised (still a bit naive I guess) that the coverage of the Rubin/Lincoln connection hasn’t begun to taint AEI. When Cato realized they were being represented by people on Abramoff’s dole, they got rid of those propagandists. Not AEI, though. Nosirreee, all in a good party avant garde’s job description.
Anonymous says:
Well,it only broke yesterday…. But aei is in a class by itself, a veritable branch of osp, almost a contractor rather than a contractee like cato. So does Judy’s August 2003 Aspen paper interest you any more in that light?
Anonymous says:
Hi ew
As a former CBC TV investigative reporter, I’ve followed the Ledeen allegations right from Bob Parry’s first linking Ledeen to SISME in 1984; Ledeen has denied the SISME/Niger forgeries in a National Review piece, a strange allegory invoking the host of James Angleton, the CIA’s counterintell chief—blaming the French, in fact. I’m curious: what’s the nexus between Rubin and Ledeen? And what of ’the French forged ’em’ gambit? Thoughts? thanks cj
Anonymous says:
canuck
Actually, if you read my take on the Ledeen piece (which is a series) you’ll see that he does not, technically, deny the charges. He just goes on to frame the French, in a charge that has since been discredited.
I’m not sure of the direct relation between Ledeen and Rubin (although I did finally find some very indirect connection, through the â€October Surprise,†between Angleton and Ledeen, also courtesy of Parry).
I first found Rubin when I was looking into INC slamming Saad Janabi as a Baathist because he had ties to the CIA.
IIRC, Rubin took over for Harold Rhode as the DOD liaison to Chalabi in Iraq (Rhode called called back, among other reasons, because of his little meetings with Ghobanifar). If that’s true, it would put Rubin at two degrees of separation from Ledeen, which with these crooks probably means Rubin was going to have Ledeen’s baby.
Anonymous says:
ew
Read your Dec 15th post, which I missed at the time. Exceptional stuff, which seems to amplify the argument Ledeen is another academic playing spy-boy. Thank you. The Roman connection IMHO has a Vatican component too…SISME/I and the Vatican secretary of state people have been hand-in-glove since forever. I’m working on a documentary piece just now, exploring how Angleton [who died ruing his life’s work, both Joe Trento and Burton Hersh report] was turned inside out in 1945 even as X2/Rome was a-borning—and how the Vatican’s own espionage nets [so vital to the 1948 elxn which set the Vatican diplomatic table for the likes of Abrams and Ledeen forty years later] were utterly turned by the Soviets.Tragic, Shakespearean stuff, Angleton’s life. So who forged the Niger documents? My gut? I think they were a classic example of circular reporting—why would either the Italians or the French create documents so pathetically amateur? But DC ideologues would. We shall see. Thanks again.
Anonymous says:
canuck
One other way you might think about the Niger forgeries is to think of the other forgeries out there. I harped a bit on the strange uranium document Judy found in Iraq. I need to go back to it, but it doesn’t make sense. There was no uranium in Congo to deal, so the Congo thing seems like a frame-up to fulfill the other nations in Africa thing. And no one selling uranium to Iraq would do so primarily as part of Jihad.
Another document I’d like to look more closely at is the most recent Zarqawi/Zawahiri letter. I got interested because it is the one JJA Ledeen column of late that we don’t know Ledeen to be involved in. We do know, however, that it is suspcious. Juan Cole did a pretty convincing debunking of it a while back. Of course, it’s part of a whole series of documents tied to Zarqawi that are almost certainly forgeries (but who’s to say Zarqawi himself isn’t a forgery, of sorts??)
Well, if either of these documents can be proven to be a forgery, then you’ve got ties to Iraq with the forging (of course it may not be related, but the proximity of Chalabi and Rhode to the uranium document is awfully suspicious). So how do you tie that back to Rome?
Good luck on the Angleton piece. I’d be curious to hear how it’s coming along.
Anonymous says:
ew
Might we continue this offline? Email me when you’ve a moment.
tx
cj
Anonymous says:
emptywheel,
Have you read â€Tlon, Uqbar, and Orbis Tertius†by Jorge Luis Borges? I’m more and more convinced it is the way to understand our current predicament. No synopsis of the story can do it justice, but a conversation between two (real) Argentine authors about writing a story with an unreliable narrator leads Borges (the narrator of his own fictional story) to discover a plot by a secret society to alter reality by imposing a false reality of their own making. Borges initially uncovers the plot when he finds a fake article (about a region the middle east called Uqbar) interpolated into an encyclopedia. He gradually discovers more and more about this audacious undertaking as more and more forgeries are willingly accepted by the public at large. The story ends with a postscript written seven years in the future (from the POV of the story which was published in 1940) after the false world of Orbis Tertius has completely overtaken the real world and the author retreats into his narrow academic studies.
I never thought I would live in time which resembled the bizarre world that Borges imagined, but seeing the people’s willingness to accept even the most ludicrous assertions because they are easy and comforting makes me wonder if we aren’t on our way to Orbis Tertius.
Anonymous says:
William
Yup, we’re living in Borges world. Now if only we were all blind and living in a library, too, it might not be so painful.
Anonymous says:
Cnovym godom, G.a Kolarka. I hope Ew’s Praha background helps sort out the meeting described, above. I would imagine Ew read the LAT article about a low echelon person whom I believe initially also spent protective time in the CZ area; unfortunately, LAT has it on the pay-per-view server now only two months since it appeared; maybe Ew has a subscription to that server’s archive; it was a person whom Judy also met in her peculiar southeast Asia visit. Ew probably knows all this material, as some of it was referenced in some 2005 columns Ew wrote here at TNH. Best, John L.
Anonymous says:
EW – there’s another link with rubin. bksh has been INC’s lobbyist for years. In Iraq, Lincoln subcontracts some of its work out to bksh. bksh also works for chalabi’s daughter in DC. similarly, the guy who runs the INC in DC (Francis Brooke) is also ex-bksh.
Forget Prague, how about Atta on the SunCruz casino boat? Actually, that’d make a nice comparative study in the documentation of Atta sightings. On Feith and the OSP, though…Michael Rubin’s forced disclosure that some of his iraqi travels were funded by the Lincoln group revives my suspicion that academic and journalistic consultants linked to OSP only by ideology and chains of sideline subcontracting will be seen to have had an important role in the field production of fake intell.
Oh peanut, I have no doubt about that. Think about Rubin’s good buddy Ledeen, after all.
I’m actually surprised (still a bit naive I guess) that the coverage of the Rubin/Lincoln connection hasn’t begun to taint AEI. When Cato realized they were being represented by people on Abramoff’s dole, they got rid of those propagandists. Not AEI, though. Nosirreee, all in a good party avant garde’s job description.
Well,it only broke yesterday…. But aei is in a class by itself, a veritable branch of osp, almost a contractor rather than a contractee like cato. So does Judy’s August 2003 Aspen paper interest you any more in that light?
Hi ew
As a former CBC TV investigative reporter, I’ve followed the Ledeen allegations right from Bob Parry’s first linking Ledeen to SISME in 1984; Ledeen has denied the SISME/Niger forgeries in a National Review piece, a strange allegory invoking the host of James Angleton, the CIA’s counterintell chief—blaming the French, in fact. I’m curious: what’s the nexus between Rubin and Ledeen? And what of ’the French forged ’em’ gambit? Thoughts?
thanks
cj
canuck
Actually, if you read my take on the Ledeen piece (which is a series) you’ll see that he does not, technically, deny the charges. He just goes on to frame the French, in a charge that has since been discredited.
I’m not sure of the direct relation between Ledeen and Rubin (although I did finally find some very indirect connection, through the â€October Surprise,†between Angleton and Ledeen, also courtesy of Parry).
I first found Rubin when I was looking into INC slamming Saad Janabi as a Baathist because he had ties to the CIA.
IIRC, Rubin took over for Harold Rhode as the DOD liaison to Chalabi in Iraq (Rhode called called back, among other reasons, because of his little meetings with Ghobanifar). If that’s true, it would put Rubin at two degrees of separation from Ledeen, which with these crooks probably means Rubin was going to have Ledeen’s baby.
ew
Read your Dec 15th post, which I missed at the time. Exceptional stuff, which seems to amplify the argument Ledeen is another academic playing spy-boy. Thank you.
The Roman connection IMHO has a Vatican component too…SISME/I and the Vatican secretary of state people have been hand-in-glove since forever. I’m working on a documentary piece just now, exploring how Angleton [who died ruing his life’s work, both Joe Trento and Burton Hersh report] was turned inside out in 1945 even as X2/Rome was a-borning—and how the Vatican’s own espionage nets [so vital to the 1948 elxn which set the Vatican diplomatic table for the likes of Abrams and Ledeen forty years later] were utterly turned by the Soviets.Tragic, Shakespearean stuff, Angleton’s life.
So who forged the Niger documents? My gut? I think they were a classic example of circular reporting—why would either the Italians or the French create documents so pathetically amateur?
But DC ideologues would.
We shall see.
Thanks again.
canuck
One other way you might think about the Niger forgeries is to think of the other forgeries out there. I harped a bit on the strange uranium document Judy found in Iraq. I need to go back to it, but it doesn’t make sense. There was no uranium in Congo to deal, so the Congo thing seems like a frame-up to fulfill the other nations in Africa thing. And no one selling uranium to Iraq would do so primarily as part of Jihad.
Another document I’d like to look more closely at is the most recent Zarqawi/Zawahiri letter. I got interested because it is the one JJA Ledeen column of late that we don’t know Ledeen to be involved in. We do know, however, that it is suspcious. Juan Cole did a pretty convincing debunking of it a while back. Of course, it’s part of a whole series of documents tied to Zarqawi that are almost certainly forgeries (but who’s to say Zarqawi himself isn’t a forgery, of sorts??)
Well, if either of these documents can be proven to be a forgery, then you’ve got ties to Iraq with the forging (of course it may not be related, but the proximity of Chalabi and Rhode to the uranium document is awfully suspicious). So how do you tie that back to Rome?
Good luck on the Angleton piece. I’d be curious to hear how it’s coming along.
ew
Might we continue this offline? Email me when you’ve a moment.
tx
cj
emptywheel,
Have you read â€Tlon, Uqbar, and Orbis Tertius†by Jorge Luis Borges? I’m more and more convinced it is the way to understand our current predicament. No synopsis of the story can do it justice, but a conversation between two (real) Argentine authors about writing a story with an unreliable narrator leads Borges (the narrator of his own fictional story) to discover a plot by a secret society to alter reality by imposing a false reality of their own making. Borges initially uncovers the plot when he finds a fake article (about a region the middle east called Uqbar) interpolated into an encyclopedia. He gradually discovers more and more about this audacious undertaking as more and more forgeries are willingly accepted by the public at large. The story ends with a postscript written seven years in the future (from the POV of the story which was published in 1940) after the false world of Orbis Tertius has completely overtaken the real world and the author retreats into his narrow academic studies.
I never thought I would live in time which resembled the bizarre world that Borges imagined, but seeing the people’s willingness to accept even the most ludicrous assertions because they are easy and comforting makes me wonder if we aren’t on our way to Orbis Tertius.
William
Yup, we’re living in Borges world. Now if only we were all blind and living in a library, too, it might not be so painful.
Cnovym godom, G.a Kolarka. I hope Ew’s Praha background helps sort out the meeting described, above. I would imagine Ew read the LAT article about a low echelon person whom I believe initially also spent protective time in the CZ area; unfortunately, LAT has it on the pay-per-view server now only two months since it appeared; maybe Ew has a subscription to that server’s archive; it was a person whom Judy also met in her peculiar southeast Asia visit. Ew probably knows all this material, as some of it was referenced in some 2005 columns Ew wrote here at TNH.
Best,
John L.
EW – there’s another link with rubin. bksh has been INC’s lobbyist for years. In Iraq, Lincoln subcontracts some of its work out to bksh. bksh also works for chalabi’s daughter in DC. similarly, the guy who runs the INC in DC (Francis Brooke) is also ex-bksh.
( the Zarqawi/Zawahiri letter was nonsense)
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