It could also explain the large volume of correspondence. We were just talking about this here (while we are trying to get some work done, gah, distractions), and wondering if that was all chit chat or if there were reports or documents included in that 20-30K pages of emails, either as copy/paste or attachments.

And many of us in the comment threads here were very curious about the way that they described Kelley’s title. First it was reported that she had a position in the State Dept. Then that turned into a “social liaison” title with the curious quote about how she was given the title of honorary ambassador but was known to drop the “honorary” part of it. A number of people here noticed that paragraph and threw a few WTFs at that one. It stood out. IIRC, the same article specifically made the point that she was “unpaid” and not a government employee. Let’s say that she was a contractor — would still be technically true that she wasn’t a govt. employee then, but the rest of it would not fly, even with clever parsing.

Also, if she had something to hide, why would she go to the FBI and risk them finding the correspondence with Allen? Well, unless that’s what she wanted to happen.

Then there is the whole confusion about whether the FBI agent was male or female? My fiance says he read a different article that referred to the FBI agent as female too. He doesn’t remember which article it was but I’m hoping he finds it.

Plus, shirtless FBI guy details just seemed like more catnip. And people are leaking like *crazy*. What’s up with that?

Another big detail that I missed until awhile ago was — BBC article says that Allen is denying any wrongdoing. Petraeus and Broadwell fessed up. Allen is denying wrongdoing. What does that mean?

One more point. The wording around the anonymous sources has in some cases been interesting in some of these articles.

From that same DailyBeast article, is this Petraeus? How many different people could this be?

The messages were instead what the source terms “kind of cat-fight stuff.”

“More like, ‘Who do you think you are? … You parade around the base … You need to take it down a notch,’” according to the source, who was until recently at the highest levels of the intelligence community and prefers not to be identified by name.

@ryan:
Several people — including me– have read your comments. And you have also been given credit at least once for your observation!

Re Allen — he really, really doesn’t seem to be the type to me. Calling someone sweetheart can really be quite innocuous. It all depends on how it’s said.

One thing I haven’t seen mentioned here is apparently both the Kelleys, and Jill’s sister, who currently lives with them, have had some serious financial difficulties in the recent past.

Would like to know how Jill has become a fixture at DC social events as well.

@Scott Lazarowitz: I think it’s time to cut out the ‘catfight’ comments, which are another part of the military shifting blame.

What actually happened is basic policy infighting. Broadwell and Kelley fighting for position, not for romance. The Broadwell-Petraeus affair now seems completely incidental. What seems clear is that there was a lot of conversation outside normal channels. The question will be whether any of it was illegal.

@joanneleon: Rings true–that certainly could sound like a jealous former officer that sees the civilian bombshell acting like she’s on the inside with all these senior command types. Oops, probably bad choice of words. Sorry.

Kelley’s role, however “self-appointed,” in intelligence work fills the gap that talking heads like Fran Townsend were furrowing their eyebrows about last night: shirtless obsessed FBI agents aside, why would the FBI keep digging into an email harassment complaint by a nobody up until they hit pay dirt with a connection to Gen. Petraeus and/or Gen. Allen? If Kelley has a military-intel role, that would explain it. Might the whole thing have been dropped, without blowing Kelley’s “cover,” if she simply had never been told the identity of her harasser? If Kelley in fact told Petraeus to shut up his girlfriend, was she not in effect alerting Petraeus that an investigation might be under way?

@emptywheel: That looks more like a suggestion that Broadwell, not Kelley, had spookish ties. I do wonder about that question as well.

@ryan:

I gave you credit and mentioned to keep mentioning it.

Maronite background is a big flag.

This DOES feel like Plame redux. I don’t know why it feels so similar.

@emptywheel: Exactly.

I rarely disagree with Glenn, but I think this story is less about the surveillance state and absolutely everything about a prima dona CIA chief (plus a bonus 4 star general thrown in!) who has evidently never read a good Cold War page turner in his life. This is the kind of imbecile who not only mismanages wars, but makes a farce of state secrecy (which we would be well served to pretty much obliterate, but still, until we get around to that, we don’t want some nitwit running CIA).

The best part of course is, if we knew (i.e., FBI), then so did all of the other spooks on the planet. That is why you don’t leave some guy with a penchant for entrapment (or financial problems) loitering around with infinite access to state secrets.

@phred: Let alone read The Cuckoo’s Egg. It’s old enough (1989) that every single piece of Tech is gone, but it’s a frightening account of how stupid/unconcerned/unknowledgeable people can compromise the entire defense structure–lessons clearly not yet learned.
OK really off to the lab now.

@Cynthia Kouril: It does feel similar, ‘cept we’re getting about 6 months’ worth of leaks in 48 hours.

On that note, WTF *is* up with all this leaking. Some is obvious — Petraeus and Allen talking through cutouts and the one that sure looks like it’s Petraeus himself characterizing Broadwell’s e-mails to Kelley — some less so. Are any of these sanctioned, “official” leaks? There are so many it seems likely that some are — the ones discrediting “shirtless FBI agent” for instance — but it’s hard to suss out the motive(s) behind many of them.

My theory still is: Someone (career spook) at CIA instigated the Broadwell-Petraeus investigation in the first place. I’m sure many at CIA already knew Petraeus was diddling her. They somehow “arranged” for Kelley to get these emails and to report them. Maybe they worked “Shirtless” too. I think they wanted Petraeus out. When Benghazi blew up, it became all the more urgent. They felt Petraeus was the party at fault for the Benghazi screwups and should take the fall. But with hearings coming soon, Petraeus would have ample opportunity to cover it up and steer the finger of blame elsewhere. It will be interesting to hear what the acting director (career guy) has to say to Congress.

There is a Grayson P Wolfe. He definitely is in the Secret Government.

Between January and August 2004, Wolfe served as Manager of the Private Sector Development Office of the Coalition Provisional Authority in Baghdad, Iraq. In this capacity he was directly responsible for implementing a wide range of initiatives to attract foreign direct investment and provide financing to Iraqi companies…

From 2001 to 2002 Wolfe worked as an attorney for the law firm of Fleischman and Walsh, LLP, where he represented clients engaged in Homeland Security, Telecommunications and Intellectual Property matters…

He has also served in numerous positions in presidential, federal and state political campaigns.

Data points.

– Darryl Issa is of Lebanese extraction. He’s got a longstanding interest in the area. He’s a director on the nonprofit American Task Force For Lebanon.

– Jill Kelley has “honorary consul” tags on here Mercedes. From what I can tell these are not vanity plates. There appears to be some US State Department approval process required. The intent is to augment foreign embassy staff by using unpaid US citizens or green card holders in key markets. Now there also seems to have been (may still be) something called the Florida Consular Corps thingy run out of the Governors Office (Crist) which also used similar terms, but appears to have been more of a goodwill thingy. Observation stands that somehow she got special plates which would not have been entitled for a “goodwill ambassador” to a US military command.

Google Rob Rowen. He is a Tampa art dealer. Also claims the honorarium of “Honorary Ambassador to Central Command and Coalition Forces.” N

Would you believe that two top commanding Generals of the endless wars, were involved with Natalie’s divorce? General P4 and General Allen testified in a custody case. And these military leaders were bombing women and children in foreign countries.

I am enjoying this far too much.

According to court documents, Petraeus wrote in the September 20 letter to the DC judge: ‘My wife and I have known Natalie for approximately three years, getting to know her while serving in Tampa, Florida, through our friendship with Dr and Mrs Scott Kelley.

‘It is clear to me that [child’s name] would benefit from much more time with his Mother and from removal of the burdensome restrictions imposed on her when she does get to spend time with him.’

The former CIA chief added that he had observed Natalie and her son, ‘including when we hosted them and the Kelley family for Christmas dinner this past year. In each case, we have seen a very loving relationship – a mother working hard to provide her son enjoyable, educational and developmental experiences’.

A separate letter from Allen, the top commander in Afghanistan, dated two days later said: ‘Natalie clearly loves [child’s name] and cherishes each and every opportunity she has to spend time with him. She is a dedicated mother.

‘In light of Natalie’s maturity, integrity and steadfast commitment to raising her child, I humbly request your reconsideration of the existing mandated custody settlement.’

He said he got to observe the mother and child ‘at command social functions’.

General P4 even had Natalie and Jil over for Christmas dinner.

The judge was not impressed and said Natalie lied under oath.

@emptywheel: Thanks. It’s nice to know people notice. Under different names, I go back to The Next Hurrah days. Decided I was less likely to get myself in flame wars if I used my real name.

Frank33, that’s interesting about Khawam’s former husband at CPA. I’m pretty sure I read somewhere that Petraeus testified on Khawam’s behalf in the same custody case. One might wish that finding a bunch of neocon Iraq war people testifying in court in DC, that it would’ve been over something other than a child custody case.

(I now see you posted about Petraeus’s involvement before I got this up.)

for those who haven’t yet seen Jill’s personalized plate:

https://twitter.com/londonoe/status/268423943663267840

Jim suggests JK means – “Just Kidding”. I myself favor – “#1 Honorary Consul” bitch-ez!!!

ew @44,

I know he’s said that before, at least about “Shirtless” (and I don’t believe it either, and think “Shirtless” is an obvious attempt at distraction — plus one more effort to “sexualise” the whole thing in order to make it seem less serious). But do you think this is really what Josh’s “BREAKING” is all about?

Why say “rogue federal agency” and not “rogue federal agent”? Or if he’s referring to the FBI as a whole, why not just say so? And why pretend it’s some kind of a scoop?

@joanneleon:

as i read this, this thought had just crossed my mind:

suppose all the this-is-serious stuff started with the security and background checking for general allen’s new job,

and then, based on discoveries there, moved to incorporate the previously “not-all-that-big-a-deal” investigation of petraeus and broadwell.

Can this all be boiled down to Obama cleaning house after the election?

GCP @50,

I suppose that’s what I was suggesting. The whole thing — the bizarre/tenuous justifications for how they just happened to come across P4’s and Allen’s e-mails — has a certain Eliot Spitzer feel to it.

@Frank33:

You may have found a BOMBSHELL! The private equity firm that Natalie’s ex-husband now works for also employs Christian Bailey of the Lincoln Group. That name goes back to Bilmon days! (I too have been a long term reader of EW.)

Stranger and stranger.

I am back to my theory of a private intelligence network–possibly in the service of some unnamed private equity group.

@eppelheim: Seems that way to me.

@KM: Indeed and where was the NSA in all this? We’ve spent umpteen billion dollars getting those folks the best instrusive technology available so they can spy on all of us at one time and the FBI just stumbles across all of this?

@KM: @KM:

Private equity thrives on non-public information. Would be tremendously useful in identifying investment opportunities in recovering war zones.

@mcville:

There is remarkably little info available for “Wolfe”. You might think he would brag about reconstructing Irak. I think Liz Cheney ran the “Provisional Authority”.

I am back to my theory of a private intelligence network–possibly in the service of some unnamed private equity group.

Privatized, or government spying, it is all the same. The Hedge Fund Fraudsters are not prosecuted because they have immunity. They either are spies or work for one of the 16 spy agencies. Remember Buzzy Krongard.

@emptywheel: Did you see my Corbett link at 39? He takes it back to 2008 break-in to prez candidates passport files. Brennan, a potential Pet replacement, was CEO of one the firms who did the break-in.

Opens up a new dimension.

And the hits just keep on coming! Charlie Crist is not gay! He dated Natalie. And the Kelley’s used their mansion to raise money for Republicans. And Jill knows a Congresskritter. And she has been to the British Embassy.

They also have direct links to Florida’s highest political circles, The Daily Telegraph has learned. Miss Khawam once dated Charlie Crist, the state’s former governor, a Republican source said, while Pam Bondi, its Attorney General and a close ally of Mitt Romney, attended a function at Mrs Kelley’s home…

Peter King, a Republican congressman for New York who was at the event, told CNN yesterday that he had met Mrs Kelley at “one or two events at the British embassy”. An embassy spokesman declined to check, saying that it would take too much time…

Yet she and her husband Scott, a surgeon, were soon being sued for $1.9 million by Central Bank…A similar $1.8 million property lawsuit from Regions Bank…Regions Bank filed another claim against the Kelleys for $453,000…

I know what it is to owe money for credit cards. It is sad.

@emptywheel: So you think Ms. Broadwell’s dad is on the right track? That’s basically what he’s said publicly.

Riddle me this – where is NSA in all this? This many emails go flying around between top generals and Floridian MILF’s and those guys know nothing? Are you telling me that no one in our government knew any of this was going on before the ladies had their little spat? Frak, that’s even scarier than the official story as its been released. I thought we were paying those types so this type of thing wouldn’t happen?

@Frank33: I would never go by what a judge said in a divorce or custody case or a domestic abuse case. Some are reasonable but others are biased assholes.

@phred: The best part of course is, if we knew (i.e., FBI), then so did all of the other spooks on the planet.

Isn’t that just the dishiest part?

So much fun, Thanks Everyone. Oh just for fun I love V. Putin to step in and say the girls work from him just to add to the mix of maddness;)

i like glenn greenwald’s take on this tentacular conspiracy: “This is a surveillance state run amok.”

it was inevitable that the ouroboroesque nature of surveillance would inevitably lead to surveillance of the surveiller.

it’s consistent with the logic of the panopticon.

@emptywheel: Just had a clip of Kelley on Hardball. She appeared to be enjoying the attention. One of those hair flipping gals. “how is my hair”

I almost feel sorry for these neo-con swingers. Their lives are disrupted, and they are under surveillance. HA HA HA. In fact, Jill had to call 9-1-1 because of suspicious lurkers near her home.

But who knew Jill has promoted herself to honorary consul general. That means she gets Diplomatic Immunity or Inviolability. Same as Julian Assange.

The second caller, who identifies herself as Jill, says there’s someone lurking in their yard.

As the call ends, she makes an apparent reference to her role at MacDill Air Force Base, which the Associated Press has described as an “unpaid social liaison.”

“You know, I don’t know if by any chance, because I’m
an honorary consul general, so I have inviolability, so they should not be able to cross my property. I don’t know if you want to get diplomatic protection involved as well,” she told the 911
dispatcher, who agreed to pass the information along to police.

@Slothrop: I would think that the fact that they are being sued for real estate/mortgage does not mean they have no money. It could be an underwater property that that they just let go.

I think there is a significant number of people who are walking away from properties and not all of them can’t pay, they decide it would be a bad business decision to pay, or they could be property flippers who got stuck with no chair when the game of musical chairs stopped. Are the suits against them personally or against a corp company that they own?

Here is the audio of Scott and Jill’s 9-1-1 calls.

They live at 1005 Bay Shore according to the call.

@joanneleon:
I think the Kelley’s financed a piece of commercial real estate on which they defaulted. In that case, they may have been able to walk away from the mortgage. But there are also outstanding cases of unpaid credit card debt. Very hard to walk away from that. That would also tend to indicate that spending habits were out of control.

There are also questions about the way funds were spent in a defunct non profit that they established.

@x174: I often thought about and talked about the people who pass laws that allow the increased surveillance, or do the oversight, etc., thinking, don’t they realize that all of their stuff is getting hoovered up too? Hubris, I guess. I wonder if some of the folks who write the software stick little exceptions in there for their own phone numbers and IP addresses ;)

This is making the rounds (my daughter saw it linked in an Atul Gawande tweet.) The second query to the NYT Ethicist column from last July sounds like it must have come from Paula’s husband, or someone pretending to be.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/magazine/a-message-from-beyond.html

One thing that surprises me a lot is that the subject of war with Iran hardly ever comes up in this whole conversation. The arming of Syrian rebels and the overthrow of their government doesn’t come up that much either.

It was just a couple of months ago that there was a big pushback from the admin and Gen. Dempsey and some really intense back and forth, appearances on Sunday news shows, etc. And there was so much talk about windows of opportunity, attacks before or after elections, etc.

An Israeli attack on Iran would delay but probably not stop its nuclear programme, the most senior US military officer has claimed. General Martin Dempsey reinforced Washington’s opposition to unilateral Israel military action as he made clear that US military chiefs were equally wary of getting ensnared in Syria.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/aug/30/israeli-attack-iran-not-stop-nuclear?newsfeed=true

Plus, that big kill list article by Scott Shane and all the leaks around that time, resulting in the White House announcing not only one but two leak investigations. What goes into a leak investigation, I wonder. Do they subpoena all the communications of particular suspects? Does the FBI get involved or does DoJ keep it all within their own teams?

The CIA has not filed a “crime report” with the Justice Department over reports about Obama’s drone policy and a U.S. “kill list” of targeted militants, an action which often would trigger an official leak investigation, two sources familiar with the matter said. They requested anonymity to discuss sensitive information.

By contrast, the CIA did file a “crime report” following publication by the Associated Press last month of a report disclosing the foiling of a plot by Yemen-based Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula to attack an airliner using a newly designed underwear bomb, sources said.

Officials said the second leak investigation involves a series of revelations in a book and article by a New York Times journalist about the alleged role of U.S. agencies in cyber-warfare activities against Iran. These include the creation and deployment of a virus known as Stuxnet which attacked Iranian uranium enrichment equipment.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/14/us-usa-security-leaks-idUSBRE85D1PI20120614

Apparently, DiFi and others, will be having Betrayus and Madame Shillary testifying about Benghazi afterall…!

Senators call for former CIA head to testify on Benghazi attack

@mcville: That does change the picture then if it’s not just the real estate.

@joanneleon: Hmmm, that is it, the war in Syria is the current step of war with Iran. War by proxies.

@GulfCoastPirate:
That’s an interesting question, especially geiven their resources.

@joanneleon:
> What goes into a leak investigation, I wonder. Do they subpoena all the communications of particular suspects? Does the FBI get involved or does DoJ keep it all within their own teams?

Good questions.

@orionatl: Orion, I really don’t care how much she’s ‘admired by her troops’ or even how much of a ‘team player’ she is, she is still responsible for pushing the fallacious R2P for ‘regime change’ in Libya, Syria, and Iran…! Where’s the same outrage and demands for regime change in Bahrain, UAE, House of Saud, etc…? Hmmm…?

@CTuttle:

hmm,

your position requires you to believe in a big-bang theory of diplomacy and war.

@SebastianDangerfield: Tapes of police (not 911) calls from the Kelley residence regarding media trespassing lately:

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/11/abc-denver-channel-broadwell-all-in.php?ref=fpb

Wrong link for police calls regarding her ‘diplomatic inviolability,’ sorry.

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/story/20087394/2012/11/13/jill-kelley-911-calls

@bigchin: I’m pretty sure “her troops” refers to State Dep’t staff, with whom she is pretty popular as I understand it.

@Lefty665:

ah, lefty,

here you are again making your usual inane remarks using your usual limited vocabulary and stereotypical thinking.

i thought you’d learned a lesson, but i was wrong;

meatheads like you don’t ever learn?

i’d guess bmaz whistled you up and let you off your chain?

in any event, here is what i said in entirety, would you like to comment articulately on any
part of it?

“…clinton has been a superb secretary of state.

she is appreciated by her troops.

she has made women’s issues central to her work.

she is a team member, not a shill.

a self-aware person like yourself no doubt understands thst shills show up everywhere these days,

but not as our current secretary of state.”

Spook…or grifter?

…From the records, it appears that the charity fell far short of its mission. While the origins of the seed money used to start the charity in 2007 are unclear, financial records reviewed by The Huffington Post reveal that the group spent all of its money not on research, but on parties, entertainment, travel and attorney fees…

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/13/jill-kelley-charity-david-petraeus_n_2124213.html

@mcville: Property in Florida has been an avenue for money laundering. If it is commercial property, that’s certainly a possibility. Not saying that’s what happened, jus’ saying it’s possible. Look at all the South and Central American drug money laundered through Florida. The potential for using property as a tax dodge, and also to launder money, exists.

I also think your hunch about PRIVATE equity merits further rumination. Particularly when you figure that many ‘international’ banks specialize in money laundering, and given the billions that got siphoned out of Iraq, that may not be what this is about. But it’s worth further attention.

At one point, the Iraqi Oil Ministry was attacked (it turns out, almost certainly by Iranians posing as Iraqi’s, who had very good inside info). They somehow co-opted the telecomm reporting system, took the British guards and IT specialist hostage; they killed the guards, and the IT guy eventually made it home to Britain a year or more later. I don’t recall the details and have trouble calling up the old reports in the Guardian. But the synopsis was that the economic data from the Oil Ministry had probably been co-opted by Iran. Or some group affiliated with Iran.

Grayson Wolfe as a brother-in-law.
Abbe Lowell as a family friend.
And if I read one of the comments on this thread correctly, was Lowell the AIPAC attorney?! (You gotta be kidding me… )

Quite the social networker, Jill was.

But today’s news does seem 10x as weird as yesterday’s: why did Clapper recommend/tell Petraeus to resign immediately? Resigning is one thing. Immediately does seem more than odd.

I’m with GCP@58 –with all the billions spent on the NSA, the CIA Director was using a Gmail account?

@CTuttle:

you’re a very small-minded guy, c. tuttle;

that was neither a clever nor an honest reply.

there is no place in the world where any leader can snap their fingers and change
millenia of culture.

clinton is not a magician; she is a very hard working, caring american official working for change.

that is something i admire greatly, and something your comments cannot take away from her.

@Frank33: Jesus. That poor little boy.

And both Allen and Petraeus got involved in going to bat for the woman whom the judge had already criticized for her “misrepresentations about virtually everything”, and who “appears to lack any appreciation or respect for the importance of honesty and integrity in her interactions with her family, employers and others with whom she comes in contact”. My god.

What is up with that shit? Four star dumbasses, or something else?

Makes me wonder if Wolfe is really the father of that child.

Where does Hillary come into this little soap opera? She’s not, AFAICT, involved.

The one interesting thing I’ve read is that Broadwell was sitting in on classified meetings that were above her level of classification – that might be how she ended up with stuff on her computer she shouldn’t have had.
Kelley, on the other hand, seems to be a social climber with not many moral and ethical limits.